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RandomBingeBrah
09-07-2012, 05:51 PM
Say you're eating 3,000 calories per day over 7 days so a total of 21,000 over the week.

Would there be any downside to eating 6,000 cals monday, fasting tuesday, 6,000 cals wednesday, fasting thursday, 6,000 cals friday, fasting saturday, then 3,000 cals on sunday? As opposed to 3,000 cals everyday single.

Im asking this because im eating 3,000 cals per day right now on my slight surplus bulk and im still really god damn hungry after 3,000 cals. I don't know why but I just don't feel content with that.

Im only 5"7 and 155-160lbs with prob 15-18% BF but even still 3,000 cal per day doesn't feel like enough. I can seriously eat 2,000 cals between 6am and 9am and still not feel full and still have the whole day to go with only 1,000 cals left. This is really ****ting me because if I can't handle a 3000 cal bulk how the hell would i handle a cutting deficit :(

bunnydelacruz
09-07-2012, 05:56 PM
are you sure you should be bulking on 3,000 kcals? did you work it out right?
it used to do that set up once a week, eat double one day of the week, then nearly nothing the next. that was while i was cutting. it won't work over a whole week though. and if you're already so hungry, how will you be fasting every other day?
why don't you just fast the morning til mid afternoon, then start eating?

RandomBingeBrah
09-07-2012, 06:01 PM
are you sure you should be bulking on 3,000 kcals? did you work it out right?
it used to do that set up once a week, eat double one day of the week, then nearly nothing the next. that was while i was cutting. it won't work over a whole week though. and if you're already so hungry, how will you be fasting every other day?
why don't you just fast the morning til mid afternoon, then start eating?

Using scoobys calculator my TDEE comes out as 2850 to 2950 depending on which formula is used, with a bulking caloric need of 3000 to 3100 cals per day.
And I must have an eating disorder - because when I tell myself "ok, I'll fast today" I can do it easily. But if I start eating, I can't stop. I'll be like "ok gona have 3,000 cals today" then within an hour I've already ate half of that, and it doesn't matter what foods I eat I still feel hungry. I can eat 1,000 cals of chicken breast and 700 cals of brown rice totaling 1,700 cals and I'll still feel hungry an hour later.

It's like a domino effect, which is why it would be easier for me to have 6,000 cals per day, because then at least if Im going to have a domino effect I can at least get a good amount of food in, then the next day I can just ignore food all day and just fast easily.

YeomenKek
09-07-2012, 06:02 PM
I've done this (Alternate Day Fasting). Nothing but diet soda every second day, 5000+ kcal every other day. Maintained a tough deficit with this method. Just gotta find something to keep you busy on the days you're not eating. The book "Eat, Stop, Eat" goes into this concept a bit more if you're interested - http://www.leangains.com/2012/04/eat-stop-eat-expanded-5th-edition.html

bunnydelacruz
09-07-2012, 06:04 PM
i understand your concept, i'm kind of the same. when i binge, i can really binge. but if i set my mind on fasting, i usually do it. it seems easier to get on with my life and ignore eating.
if you think you can do it, then yeah it will work. it just seems too many days fasting during the week, it might catch up on you. but the science behind it will work, it does depend on your overall calories.
i would try fasting til the afternoon though, i'm doing IF, and i don't eat til around 4-5pm. i have coffee in the morning and it keeps my hunger pangs at bay.

dumbchicken
09-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Lifts and intensity in gym could be compromised if you do alternate day fasting.

You could just eat more veggies.

RandomBingeBrah
09-07-2012, 06:25 PM
I've done this (Alternate Day Fasting). Nothing but diet soda every second day, 5000+ kcal every other day. Maintained a tough deficit with this method. Just gotta find something to keep you busy on the days you're not eating. The book "Eat, Stop, Eat" goes into this concept a bit more if you're interested - leangains

How was your body composition when you were doing 5000 kcals every 2nd day? Was it pretty much the same as if you were doing 2500 cals per day?


Lifts and intensity in gym could be compromised if you do alternate day fasting.

You could just eat more veggies.

I lift at 6-7am in the mornings right after waking up, I still feel energized from the previous days food so it doesn't effect me. I could see it being a problem if I was working out in the late afternoon though.

I should add to this - It doesn't matter what types of foods I am eating, I still feel hungry. I can sit there and eat veggies and fruits in the thousands and still feel hungry. It's not like Im craving "junk" food, I just crave food over-all. I will binge on anything thats available to me, no matter what it is.

The funny thing is I am doing IIFYM and even when im fitting in stuff to keep me sane, it doesn't help...in-fact I think it might even be causing me to stuff up even more. I can have a perfectly balanced macro ratio for the week, which is fitting in plenty of nice tasting treats in the last 10-20% of the total kcals and yet I still feel the need to eat more.

I've tried both ways....I've even tried eating 100% of my calories from chicken breast, brown rice and added oil for the fats....I can eat 3,000 cals of that which will have been feeling bloated as ****...but then I still feel the need for icecream/sweat food to finish it up lol.

YeomenKek
09-07-2012, 06:48 PM
How was your body composition when you were doing 5000 kcals every 2nd day? Was it pretty much the same as if you were doing 2500 cals per day?

Yes, because it is the same as 2500 kcal per day. I used to have the same problem as you, random binging and always being hungry. I find it a lot easier to just do 1 meal a day and choose foods that are low kcal per unit of volume. Things like low-fat/low-sugar yogurt, diet jello, adding chitloads of veggies to everything. Much prefer it to ADFing and have been doing the former the most part of the last 2.5 years now.

RandomBingeBrah
09-07-2012, 06:53 PM
Yes, because it is the same as 2500 kcal per day. I used to have the same problem as you, random binging and always being hungry. I find it a lot easier to just do 1 meal a day and choose foods that are low kcal per unit of volume. Things like low-fat/low-sugar yogurt, diet jello, adding chitloads of veggies to everything. Much prefer it to ADFing and have been doing the former the most part of the last 2.5 years now.


Sounds good then. i'm going to start doing it today.

RandomBingeBrah
09-07-2012, 07:17 PM
Here's what I've worked out I can do atm. Bulk/maintaince/slightly above maintaince and cutting cals, through eat/fast/eat/fast/eat/fast/eat.

Saturday - 6000 cals
Sunday - 0 cals
Monday - 6000 cals
Tuesday - 0 cals
Wednesday - 6000 cals
Thursday - 0 cals
Friday - 3000 cals

Total - 21000 (3000c avg per day) (Bulk + 100-150)

Saturday - 5000cals
Sunday - 0 cals
Monday - 5000 cals
Tuesday - 0 cals
Wednesday - 5000 cals
Thursday - 0 cals
Friday - 4000 cals

Total - 19000 (2700c avg per day) - Maintainance

Saturday - 5500 cals
Sunday - 0 cals
Monday - 5500 cals
Tuesday - 0 cals
Wednesday - 5500 cals
Thursday - 0 cals
Friday - 3500 cals

Total - 20000 (2850c avg per day) - Maintaince +150

Saturday - 4500 cals
Sunday - 0 cals
Monday - 4500 cals
Tuesday - 0 cals
Wednesday - 4500 cals
Thursday - 0 cals
Friday - 3500 cals

Total - 17000 (2430c avg per day) - Cutting - 20% CALS

MikeMcAlister
09-07-2012, 11:23 PM
I've been doing this for about a month or so and I really like it. Strength is going up.

AlwaysTryin
09-08-2012, 12:13 AM
So you won't be training Sunday, Tuesday or Thursday then

hilltopper1993
09-08-2012, 12:43 AM
I'd bet you are so hungry because you arent eating enough. 3000-3100 calories a day isn't much for a moderately active person.

Then again you could just be a member of the forever hungry crew.

libtolu
09-08-2012, 03:19 AM
How was your body composition when you were doing 5000 kcals every 2nd day? Was it pretty much the same as if you were doing 2500 cals per day?



I lift at 6-7am in the mornings right after waking up, I still feel energized from the previous days food so it doesn't effect me. I could see it being a problem if I was working out in the late afternoon though.

I should add to this - It doesn't matter what types of foods I am eating, I still feel hungry. I can sit there and eat veggies and fruits in the thousands and still feel hungry. It's not like Im craving "junk" food, I just crave food over-all. I will binge on anything thats available to me, no matter what it is.

The funny thing is I am doing IIFYM and even when im fitting in stuff to keep me sane, it doesn't help...in-fact I think it might even be causing me to stuff up even more. I can have a perfectly balanced macro ratio for the week, which is fitting in plenty of nice tasting treats in the last 10-20% of the total kcals and yet I still feel the need to eat more.

I've tried both ways....I've even tried eating 100% of my calories from chicken breast, brown rice and added oil for the fats....I can eat 3,000 cals of that which will have been feeling bloated as ****...but then I still feel the need for icecream/sweat food to finish it up lol.

Go eat a kg of broccoli and tell me you're hungry

JasonDB
09-08-2012, 03:48 AM
This plan is absurd. Here are the problems with what you are saying:

- You have an ED that makes you a compulisve overeater who cannot stop eating but you are 155 lbs. I was 275 lbs at 19 with an active job on my feet all day before I started training. Any time I stop tracking calories and just eat bro foods until I am full I end up at 270 lbs very quickly. There is no way you've maintained a bw of 155 lbs if you have an overeating problem.

-Your surplus is much lower than anyone would recommend according to your supposed TDEE... who told you to eat 50-150 calorie surpluses to bulk? You should probably be eating 3300-3400 calories a day honestly on a proper bulk.

All of this indicates to me that your actual eating disorder is one of chronic undereating and you are trying to justify the continued pattern of this by picking such a tiny caloric surplus that you might not gain any noticable body weight at all on it... and by doing this fast/feast every other day it will let you justify in your own mind eating a lot less than the projected 6,000 calories on your eating day, thus allowing you starve yourself then only eat 4500-5000 calories on that "feast day" keeping you at 2200-2500 average per day so that you can later claim you tried to bulk but couldn't gain weight and are now at 155 lbs.

I think you should drop the bull****, lift heavy go on 3400 calories a day, every day, without fail and put some size on. Stop pussy-footing around.

RandomBingeBrah
09-08-2012, 05:16 AM
So you won't be training Sunday, Tuesday or Thursday then

Why not?

If I eat 320g of protein on Monday and I train Tuesday at 6am whats the problem?. On Thursday I'd be training at 6am.....after having 320g of protein on the Wednesday. I thought meal timing didn't matter? If I have 320g of protein in 1 day and train the first thing the next morning am I missing out on something?

yololego
09-08-2012, 05:23 AM
^lol'd

GGWarrior8
09-08-2012, 05:28 AM
I've done this (Alternate Day Fasting). Nothing but diet soda every second day, 5000+ kcal every other day. Maintained a tough deficit with this method. Just gotta find something to keep you busy on the days you're not eating. The book "Eat, Stop, Eat" goes into this concept a bit more if you're interested - http://www.leangains.com/2012/04/eat-stop-eat-expanded-5th-edition.html

The Eat Stop Eat book does not advocate alternate day fasting. It advocates fasting 2x a week, for 18-24 hours on non consecutive days. It also tells you to keep calorie intake reasonable on non-fasting days....as in eat as you normally would without the fasting.

RandomBingeBrah
09-08-2012, 05:35 AM
This plan is absurd. Here are the problems with what you are saying:

- You have an ED that makes you a compulisve overeater who cannot stop eating but you are 155 lbs. I was 275 lbs at 19 with an active job on my feet all day before I started training. Any time I stop tracking calories and just eat bro foods until I am full I end up at 270 lbs very quickly. There is no way you've maintained a bw of 155 lbs if you have an overeating problem.

-Your surplus is much lower than anyone would recommend according to your supposed TDEE... who told you to eat 50-150 calorie surpluses to bulk? You should probably be eating 3300-3400 calories a day honestly on a proper bulk.

All of this indicates to me that your actual eating disorder is one of chronic undereating and you are trying to justify the continued pattern of this by picking such a tiny caloric surplus that you might not gain any noticable body weight at all on it... and by doing this fast/feast every other day it will let you justify in your own mind eating a lot less than the projected 6,000 calories on your eating day, thus allowing you starve yourself then only eat 4500-5000 calories on that "feast day" keeping you at 2200-2500 average per day so that you can later claim you tried to bulk but couldn't gain weight and are now at 155 lbs.

I think you should drop the bull****, lift heavy go on 3400 calories a day, every day, without fail and put some size on. Stop pussy-footing around.


I know it sounds outrageous, but if it's what I need to do to stay on track then I don't see why I shouldn't. Unless I can't get any muscle growth by having 320g of protein the day before a lifting-day where I'll be fasting.

I'm only 5"7 but I have a small body structure so even though im 155lbs I still look fat (in my eyes at least) Maybe I have dis-morphia...but my sisters boyfriend whos about 5'10 - he is 200lbs (doesn't lift)....and I think I look fatter than him....but he has really heavy bones, very large bone structure, his thin...with a slight skinny-fat appearance. Im short with a skinny-fat appearance...

Here is what I mean....I only started lifting / counting macros like 2 months ago.

I was 148-152 in July, 152-155 in August, Now im 155-158 in September. I've been neglecting exercises for traps but Ive just started doing them now since im fixing up my routine.


(just got my chest waxed that second = redness...not acne fyi!)

http://i.imgur.com/hCsaf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/W5eVA.jpg

yololego
09-08-2012, 05:43 AM
u neglect deadlift - -

RandomBingeBrah
09-08-2012, 05:48 AM
u neglect deadlift - -

Started liftin 2 months ago bro.

I only just started doing squats correctly, im going to start doing deadlifts soon once I strengthen up my back more. I don't wanna go start doing deadlifts if my body isnt ready for it.

The only compounds im doing atm is BP,SQ, OHP. I'll put deadlifts in soon once I feel im ready mentally/physically for them.

RandomBingeBrah
09-08-2012, 06:18 AM
This plan is absurd. Here are the problems with what you are saying:

- You have an ED that makes you a compulisve overeater who cannot stop eating but you are 155 lbs. I was 275 lbs at 19 with an active job on my feet all day before I started training. Any time I stop tracking calories and just eat bro foods until I am full I end up at 270 lbs very quickly. There is no way you've maintained a bw of 155 lbs if you have an overeating problem.

-Your surplus is much lower than anyone would recommend according to your supposed TDEE... who told you to eat 50-150 calorie surpluses to bulk? You should probably be eating 3300-3400 calories a day honestly on a proper bulk.

All of this indicates to me that your actual eating disorder is one of chronic undereating and you are trying to justify the continued pattern of this by picking such a tiny caloric surplus that you might not gain any noticable body weight at all on it... and by doing this fast/feast every other day it will let you justify in your own mind eating a lot less than the projected 6,000 calories on your eating day, thus allowing you starve yourself then only eat 4500-5000 calories on that "feast day" keeping you at 2200-2500 average per day so that you can later claim you tried to bulk but couldn't gain weight and are now at 155 lbs.

I think you should drop the bull****, lift heavy go on 3400 calories a day, every day, without fail and put some size on. Stop pussy-footing around.

I really do eat that much man. I am not some 6"9 120lbs idiot who thinks they're ecto because they think eating 800 cals per day is enough. Trust me I track & count the macros properly.

300g protein 1200kcal
800g carb 3200kcal
150g fat 1620kcal

total 6k kcals.

I actually feel content today with that - i feel very full and happy.

I fasted the previous day (Friday), now I'll fast tomorrow (Sunday). If the body takes 24-72hours to digest nutrients (as ive read from nutritionist who are debunking the supplement company myths of having to eat 1.76 minutes after working out to get gains) then what is wrong with doing this?.

On chest/bicep day (Monday) I'll eat 1,000kcals preworkout and the other 5,000kcals post workout throughout the rest of the day. Then on (Tuesday) Legs day I'll do my leg workout in the morning at 6am and fast until (Wednesday) Rest day then eat 6,000kcals on that day, then (Thursday) I'll do my Back/Tricep day at 6am, then I'll eat 3,000kcal on Friday on Shoulders(with some squats), then on Saturday I'll eat 6000kcal on Rest, then on Sunday on Rest I'll fast, then the (Monday) after I'll eat 1,000kcal preworkout and 5,000kcal post workout through the rest of the day and so on for the rest of the week. Averaging 3,000kcal per day over 7 days.

What is exactly WRONG with doing that? Would I be better off perhaps going....

4000kcal Monday
4000kcal Tuesday
2000kcal Wednesday (Rest)
4000kcal Thursday
4000kcal Friday
1000kcal Saturday (Rest)
2000kcal Sunday (Rest)

Instead of

6000kcal Monday
0kcal Tuesday
6000kcal Wednesday (Rest)
0kcal Thursday
3000kcal Friday
6000kcal Saturday (Rest)
0kcal Sunday (Rest)

Or what about

Monday - 5000kcal
Tuesday - 5000kcal
Wednesday - 650kcal
Thursday - 5000kcal
Friday - 5000kcal
Saturday - 650kcal
Sunday - 650kcal

Or

Monday - 4800kcal
Tuesday - 4800kal
Wednesday - 1000kcal
Thursday - 4800kcal
Friday - 4800kal
Saturday - 1000kcal
Sunday - 1000kcal

This graph says I should eat 22050 but I've been gaining weight eating 21000 just fine. 148-152 to 155-160 within 2.25 months.

http://i.imgur.com/NsA2q.png

Anthony21
09-08-2012, 06:38 AM
Talk about making sh!t way more complicated then it has to be. That's the problem with people man. Stop fuking worrying about fasting and eat in a surplus day in and day out, lift some weight and progress in the gym day in and day out & get sufficient recovery. This sh!t isn't rocket science. It's been done like this since the beginning.

Build up some mass and stop trying to follow some fasting protocol.

RandomBingeBrah
09-08-2012, 06:47 AM
Talk about making sh!t way more complicated then it has to be. That's the problem with people man. Stop fuking worrying about fasting and eat in a surplus day in and day out, lift some weight and progress in the gym day in and day out & get sufficient recovery. This sh!t isn't rocket science. It's been done like this since the beginning.

Build up some mass and stop trying to follow some fasting protocol.

I am worried though. Look at my ****ing body brah. It's awkward as fark.

Maybe it's the way im standing, but why does my abs appear weirdly....but ive got **** all mass...but at the same time I look wide/fat as fark.

The fark man look at this sheet and try explain why my body is like this. I am pretty sure if I ate like a normal bulking skinny-phaggot did...I'd probably become even more fatter.

Im not some skinny kid who needs to gain weight in fat and muscle. I don't need anymore fat...I just need muscle. IM NOT AN SKINNY BONE & SKINS PHAGGOT WHO YOU CAN JUST TELL "EAT MOAR BRAH" - FFS trust me I am EATING what I say I eat. I am not under-eating and faking that im eating more than I am. Look at me...im fat...does it look like Im undereating? SERIOUSLY Lol.

http://i.imgur.com/5FSq7.jpg

GOING TO SLEEP NOW WILL CHECK THE THREAD TOMORROW MORNING (FASTING ALL DAY TOMORROW WILL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO CHECK ALL RESPONSES)

pfuddy
09-08-2012, 06:54 AM
A guy did a similar sort of thing

check this thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133473823&page=1

in4reps

Anthony21
09-08-2012, 07:14 AM
I am worried though. Look at my ****ing body brah. It's awkward as fark.

Maybe it's the way im standing, but why does my abs appear weirdly....but ive got **** all mass...but at the same time I look wide/fat as fark.

The fark man look at this sheet and try explain why my body is like this. I am pretty sure if I ate like a normal bulking skinny-phaggot did...I'd probably become even more fatter.

Im not some skinny kid who needs to gain weight in fat and muscle. I don't need anymore fat...I just need muscle. IM NOT AN SKINNY BONE & SKINS PHAGGOT WHO YOU CAN JUST TELL "EAT MOAR BRAH" - FFS trust me I am EATING what I say I eat. I am not under-eating and faking that im eating more than I am. Look at me...im fat...does it look like Im undereating? SERIOUSLY Lol.

http://i.imgur.com/5FSq7.jpg

GOING TO SLEEP NOW WILL CHECK THE THREAD TOMORROW MORNING (FASTING ALL DAY TOMORROW WILL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO CHECK ALL RESPONSES)

1. You're abs are going to show the way they are going to show due to your genetics. There is nothing you can do about this but work them like any other muscle group.

2. If you're bulking stop worrying about your fuking abs

3. You have no arm mass cause you don't have enough LBM.

4. Stop focusing and spending an absurd amount of wasted energy on fasting and focus on eating in a surplus day in and day out. Keep sh!t simple. You need to put on some mass.

5. Shut the fuk up about your crying and complaining and eat, lift, rest.

AlwaysTryin
09-09-2012, 05:32 AM
I really do eat that much man. I am not some 6"9 120lbs idiot who thinks they're ecto because they think eating 800 cals per day is enough. Trust me I track & count the macros properly.

300g protein 1200kcal
800g carb 3200kcal
150g fat 1620kcal

total 6k kcals.



Sure you do... You didn't even count properly there lol

JaredPunch
09-09-2012, 06:22 AM
Using scoobys calculator my TDEE comes out as 2850 to 2950 depending on which formula is used, with a bulking caloric need of 3000 to 3100 cals per day.
And I must have an eating disorder - because when I tell myself "ok, I'll fast today" I can do it easily. But if I start eating, I can't stop. I'll be like "ok gona have 3,000 cals today" then within an hour I've already ate half of that, and it doesn't matter what foods I eat I still feel hungry. I can eat 1,000 cals of chicken breast and 700 cals of brown rice totaling 1,700 cals and I'll still feel hungry an hour later.


this happens to a lot of people
which is why nowadays breakfast isn't considered that important anymore and actually, postponing it helps to lose weight and be healthier

I think the point is that if you wake up and don't eat you're just prolunging a fast that occurred while you're asleep, so it's easy, you haven't eating for 8-10 hours and you just go on. But as soon as you eat something, you come out of the fast, you awaken your tastebuds, you spike your blood sugar and then hunger kicks in and it's hard to stop.

read this article:
http://www.thefatlossninja.com/breakfast-skipping-101-how-to-skip-breakfast-to-lose-weight/

definitely your TDEE can't be 2950 calories
you might be very active like working out 2 hour everyday or working as a lumberjack but
usually people who are moderately active with a non totally sedentary job and training to build
muscle have a TDEE of 14 times their weight. And a bulking caloric need of 17 times their weight
Even with extra activity this becomes 15 times your weight and 18 times your weight.

So your TDEE is something like: 2150-2300 calories
Your bulking caloric intake is something like: 2600-2800 calories

using a good calculator like the Mifflin Formula will definitely result in numbers like these, unless you're a pro athlete

BTW your body looks better than 95% of the world population
I know people have unrealistic standards on this forum but this is going too far
Listen man, you might have less LBM than many people here consider acceptable but you do have muscles, you should see real skinny fat people at the beach to understand what "lacking muscles" really mean
Ignore the fat bulking forget-abs approach, it works only for people on gear, on natural it's a waste of time, it will take you so long to lose the fat that you will need 2 years of cutting losing most of your muscles.
The general rule for natural trainees is to never let your BF% exceed 15-16%
Your body fat is around 14% anyway

enclave2k7
09-09-2012, 09:36 AM
48 hour fasts seemed to work for this guy:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=123913651&pagenumber=

This might be relevant to your interests as well:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29011.html

ironjunkiie
09-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Started liftin 2 months ago bro.

I only just started doing squats correctly, im going to start doing deadlifts soon once I strengthen up my back more. I don't wanna go start doing deadlifts if my body isnt ready for it.

The only compounds im doing atm is BP,SQ, OHP. I'll put deadlifts in soon once I feel im ready mentally/physically for them.


you know how u get ur back stronger to do deadlifts? .................................................. ....

do deadlifts