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View Full Version : feels good having the 2 best TE's in the league on one team.



n1e
08-12-2012, 02:29 PM
http://www.ankagallery.com/article_images/rob-gronkowski-wins-celebrity-home-run-derby-in-buffalo.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Aaron+Hernandez+New+York+Giants+v+New+England+vsoh uIFEGKHl.jpg

inb4 everyone lists their teams TE's

jesusonaciid
08-12-2012, 02:30 PM
graham>hernandez

Peter Ruby
08-12-2012, 02:31 PM
graham>hernandez

Gronk > Graham.

Dave P
08-12-2012, 02:31 PM
http://www.unathleticmag.com/wp-content/uploads/vernondavis.jpg

TranceOfPeace
08-12-2012, 02:32 PM
strong dick outline on Hernandez's pants

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 02:33 PM
http://www.unathleticmag.com/wp-content/uploads/vernondavis.jpg

Vernon <3333333.


It really sucks that he wasn't utilized properly up until the past few seasons.

Brb, stays in to block.
Brb, blocks some more.
Brb, makes a huge play.
Brb, repeat cycle.


If he and Gronkowski were on the same team........oh, lawd.


Hernandez is excellent as well, and as of right now, is more of a Vernon-lite.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 02:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/rYZML.gif

n1e
08-12-2012, 02:38 PM
http://i.imgur.com/rYZML.gif

FINALLY, someone who agrees that Aaron Hernandez > Jimmy Graham.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 02:44 PM
FINALLY, someone who agrees that Aaron Hernandez > Jimmy Graham.

It will be prove once the season begins. He's a crisper route runner, more elusive and faster. In b4 combine statistics. Aaron was coming off a torn acl.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 02:50 PM
Vernon Davis>>>Hernandez.



Hernandez is one of those guys who gets hyped up because he plays with superior talent, put him on the Bucs and he becomes Delanie Walker.

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Vernon Davis>>>Hernandez.



Hernandez is one of those guys who gets hyped up because he plays with superior talent, put him on the Bucs and he becomes Delanie Walker.

You're right about Davis being better than Hernandez, but you're wrong about him being a "Delanie Walker" on the Bucs, which actually isn't even a bad thing.........

Hernandez is excellent, and will only continue to get better. It's hard for me to think of a TE (maybe Davis) that has better open field moves than Hernandez. He can come out of the backfield as well, which will probably be on display this season.

He is not better than Davis, as Davis is faster, stronger, more athletic, and a better blocker right now, but Hernandez is still an excellent TE, and certainly one of the top five in the NFL.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:03 PM
You're right about Davis being better than Hernandez, but you're wrong about him being a "Delanie Walker" on the Bucs, which actually isn't even a bad thing.........

Hernandez is excellent, and will only continue to get better. It's hard for me to think of a TE (maybe Davis) that has better open field moves than Hernandez. He can come out of the backfield as well, which will probably be on display this season.

He is not better than Davis, as Davis is faster, stronger, more athletic, and a better blocker right now, but Hernandez is still an excellent TE, and certainly one of the top five in the NFL.



Debatable....but definitely not after this year. Dat Dere Coby Fleener.



1. Gronkowski
2. Graham
3. VD
4. Jason Witten
5. Antonio Gates
6. Aaron Hernandez


Leftover-Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener, Jermichael Finley, Brandon Pettigrew.

_NEMESIS_
08-12-2012, 03:04 PM
too bad you can't win a SB with them.

n1e
08-12-2012, 03:05 PM
Debatable....but definitely not after this year. Dat Dere Coby Fleener.



1. Gronkowski
2. Graham
3. VD
4. Jason Witten
5. Antonio Gates
6. Aaron Hernandez


Leftover-Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener, Jermichael Finley, Brandon Pettigrew.

lmao sorry but NO.

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Vernon Davis
Jimmy Graham

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:07 PM
lmao sorry but NO.

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Vernon Davis
Jimmy Graham



http://findthepieces.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/martin-lawrence-you-so-crazy-edit.jpg

The_Albatross
08-12-2012, 03:08 PM
too bad you can't win a SB with them. this

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 03:08 PM
lmao sorry but NO.

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Vernon Davis
Jimmy Graham

Congrats, you've just proved to everyone you have no clue about football.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:12 PM
Congrats, you've just proved to everyone you have no clue about football.


LOL......imagine going up to any GM in the league and saying "okay, you can choose only one of these guys, either you get VD, Jimmy Graham or you take Aaron Hernandez, what's your choice?"


Or in other words "You can choose from a complete tight-end, a big tall playmaker or a midget H-back?"

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:18 PM
Debatable....but definitely not after this year. Dat Dere Coby Fleener.



1. Gronkowski
2. Graham
3. VD
4. Jason Witten
5. Antonio Gates
6. Aaron Hernandez


Leftover-Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener, Jermichael Finley, Brandon Pettigrew.

lol no,
ban bet, Aaron Hernandez vs Vernon Davis in receiving yards.

Dave P
08-12-2012, 03:19 PM
lol no,
ban bet, Aaron Hernandez vs Vernon Davis in receiving yards.


Brb receiving yards is all that matters in a TE


Brb NE is a completely pass-happy offense and SF is the polar opposite.

beepbeep
08-12-2012, 03:20 PM
Hernandez isn't the 2nd best TE in the league. He's a terrific athlete who has benefited greatly from a coaching staff that has done a phenomenal job maximizing his physical gift in creative ways.

And before Pats fans get butthurt: That's not to say he's not a very good player, just that he would suffer much more in a less creative offense than a player like Gronk, who is just beastly and would be so in any system.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:20 PM
lol no,
ban bet, Aaron Hernandez vs Vernon Davis in receiving yards.


Not sure if you've noticed but playing TE involves quite a bit more than just your receiving yards total. If you think there is any GM in the NFL that would seriously take Hernandez over VD, you've been hitting the crack pipe with a tad bit too much frequency lately.

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 03:21 PM
LOL......imagine going up to any GM in the league and saying "okay, you can choose only one of these guys, either you get VD, Jimmy Graham or you take Aaron Hernandez, what's your choice?"


Or in other words "You can choose from a complete tight-end, a big tall playmaker or a midget H-back?"

Again, Vernon Davis is certainly better, but how are you going to call Hernandez a "midget H-back" while calling Davis a "complete TE". Davis ismy favorite player along with Gronkowski in the NFL, but if you're going to knock Hernandez for his size, then how can you not say Vernon needs to improve his hands?

If he can fix his hands, then he'll be even better than he is now, which is arguable the best TE in the NFL.......


Also, Hernandez>Gates right now.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:23 PM
Hernandez isn't the 2nd best TE in the league. He's a terrific athlete who has benefited greatly from a coaching staff that has done a phenomenal job maximizing his physical gift in creative ways.

And before Pats fans get butthurt: That's not to say he's not a very good player, just that he would suffer much more in a less creative offense than a player like Gronk, who is just beastly and would be so in any system.



Once again, put Hernandez in Tampa Bay and he's basically Delanie Walker, decent receiving TE, so-so blocker, undersized for the position, not a major threat. Hernandez playing with Brady, Welker and Gronkowski leads to more open opportunities then he'd see on pretty much any other team. He's a good player, but he's certainly not the best TE, nor the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th best TE at this time.


Meanwhile VD has put up big numbers being one of 2 guys on the 49ers that teams knew they would HAVE to stop, the other being Frank Gore. The fact that Davis had like 300 yds receiving in two playoff games last year, including putting up better numbers against the same Giants that Hernandez faced, should put this silly talk to rest.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:23 PM
Brb receiving yards is all that matters in a TE


Brb NE is a completely pass-happy offense and SF is the polar opposite.

BRB by that logic you can say VD is the best tight end in football. So when Aaron has a breakout year this year we just gonna act like Michael Lombardi is FOS when he said that Hernandez was a bigger matchup nightmare than Gronk. Calling it now everybody gonna be on Hernandez's nuts this year and I'll sit back saying "I told you so." Hernandez is the most explosive player on the Pats right now.

goodlookin3
08-12-2012, 03:23 PM
Rudolph and Carlson





lol not srs

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 03:24 PM
Also, in regards to Hernandez and Davis, and which of them will end up with more yards, I wouldn't bet on that. That's a tough call, but I'd probably have to give Davis the edge right now based solely on him being the #1 target (or #2 depending on Moss) on the 49er's.

There's no doubt Brady is going to put up MASSIVE passing numbers this year, but between Gronkowski, Hernandez, Lloyd, and Welker, it's going to be tough to put up more yards than Davis this year...

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:27 PM
BRB by that logic you can say VD is the best tight end in football. So when Aaron has a breakout year this year we just gonna act like Michael Lombardi is FOS when he said that Hernandez was a bigger matchup nightmare than Gronk. Calling it now everybody gonna be on Hernandez's nuts this year and I'll sit back saying "I told you so." Hernandez is the most explosive player on the Pats right now.


Which is Lombardi being retarded as usual. Gronkowski is a legit #1 TE, and the best, most complete TE in football right now. Hernandez is a nice complementary piece and a good system player in NE, not sure why people aren't happy with that.

If you put Hernandez in San Francisco, he's not displacing VD, you put him in New Orleans, he's not displacing Graham, or Witten in Dallas or several other TE's around the league. Just like you won't put Welker in Kansas City and all of a sudden he's their #1 WR. New England has a good system, they find players to succeed in their system.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:28 PM
Once again, put Hernandez in Tampa Bay and he's basically Delanie Walker, decent receiving TE, so-so blocker, undersized for the position, not a major threat. Hernandez playing with Brady, Welker and Gronkowski leads to more open opportunities then he'd see on pretty much any other team.


Meanwhile VD has put up big numbers being one of 2 guys on the 49ers that teams knew they would HAVE to stop, the other being Frank Gore. The fact that Davis had like 300 yds receiving in two playoff games last year, including putting up better numbers against the same Giants that Hernandez faced, should put this silly talk to rest.

Aaron Hernandez against the Giants: 12rec for 102yds and 2TD
Vernon Davis: 6 Rec for 152yds and 2TD's

We gonna act like the one 75yrd td catch isn't whats setting them apart?

Dave P
08-12-2012, 03:29 PM
BRB by that logic you can say VD is the best tight end in football. So when Aaron has a breakout year this year we just gonna act like Michael Lombardi is FOS when he said that Hernandez was a bigger matchup nightmare than Gronk. Calling it now everybody gonna be on Hernandez's nuts this year and I'll sit back saying "I told you so." Hernandez is the most explosive player on the Pats right now.


I actually think VD is the best TE in football.



Gronk/Graham have flashier numbers because of the systems they are in, not because they are better players.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:35 PM
Also, in regards to Hernandez and Davis, and which of them will end up with more yards, I wouldn't bet on that. That's a tough call, but I'd probably have to give Davis the edge right now based solely on him being the #1 target (or #2 depending on Moss) on the 49er's.

There's no doubt Brady is going to put up MASSIVE passing numbers this year, but between Gronkowski, Hernandez, Lloyd, and Welker, it's going to be tough to put up more yards than Davis this year...
Ahern had more receptions more yards and more TD's than Vernon last year. By all accounts in camp he's been uncoverable and Brady's favorite target so far. In b4 monster year.


Which is Lombardi being retarded as usual. Gronkowski is a legit #1 TE, and the best, most complete TE in football right now. Hernandez is a nice complementary piece and a good system player in NE, not sure why people aren't happy with that.

If you put Hernandez in San Francisco, he's not displacing VD, you put him in New Orleans, he's not displacing Graham, or Witten in Dallas or several other TE's around the league. Just like you won't put Welker in Kansas City and all of a sudden he's their #1 WR. New England has a good system, they find players to succeed in their system.

You right Bro, Michael Lombardi is an idiot and ElMariachi is the real analysts. I have no doubt if you put Hernandez in NO he puts up similar numbers. Dallas and VD are different types of TE's. Witten, Gonzo and VD all block a lot better than Graham but they're not ranked above him when talking about TE's. You know why? Because what Graham does in the passing game is matched only by Gronkowski. I honestly believe that if Hernandez stays healthy he will put up similar numbers.


I actually think VD is the best TE in football.



Gronk/Graham have flashier numbers because of the systems they are in, not because they are better players.

Entitled to your opinion. You won't find many people (if any) outside of your fanbase that feels that way though.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:36 PM
Aaron Hernandez against the Giants: 12rec for 102yds and 2TD
Vernon Davis: 6 Rec for 152yds and 2TD's

We gonna act like the one 75yrd td catch isn't whats setting them apart?


The difference is that the Giants were worried about stopping guys like Welker and Gronkowski.....the Giants were worried about...well, VD, they locked down Crabtree in single coverage and had to worry about guys named Joe Hastings(who?) and Brett Swain(huh?)

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Ahern had more receptions more yards and more TD's than Vernon last year. By all accounts in camp he's been uncoverable and Brady's favorite target so far. In b4 monster year.



You right Bro, Michael Lombardi is an idiot and ElMariachi is the real analysts. I have no doubt if you put Hernandez in NO he puts up similar numbers. Dallas and VD are different types of TE's. Witten, Gonzo and VD all block a lot better than Graham but they're not ranked above him when talking about TE's. You know why? Because what Graham does in the passing game is matched only by Gronkowski. I honestly believe that if Hernandez stays healthy he will put up similar numbers.

Once again, put the crack pipe down.




Entitled to your opinion. You won't find many people (if any) outside of your fanbase that feels that way though.


LOL, oh the irony.

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 03:38 PM
Ahern had more receptions more yards and more TD's than Vernon last year. By all accounts in camp he's been uncoverable and Brady's favorite target so far. In b4 monster year.

I'm very aware of the camp reports, and completely agree with Hernandez being the most explosive player on offense. However, I'm thinking the 49er's will go to Davis even more this year, and it will be tough for him to put up the numbers I can see Davis putting up.

However, I would not be the least bit surprised if he did put up better numbers than Davis.


I have multiple threads ready to bump in February.

BornAChampion
08-12-2012, 03:38 PM
I actually think VD is the best TE in football.



Gronk/Graham have flashier numbers because of the systems they are in, not because they are better players.

VD is the most athletic and fastest, but at the very least isn't better than Gronk.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:44 PM
Once again, put the crack pipe down.


LOL, oh the irony.

The Saints ask Jimmy Graham to do essentially the exact same thing that Hernadez is asked to do by the Pats. Same goes for Tony Moeki in KC, another guy who will have a breakout year if healthy.

SF49ers
08-12-2012, 03:54 PM
BRB by that logic you can say VD is the best tight end in football. So when Aaron has a breakout year this year we just gonna act like Michael Lombardi is FOS when he said that Hernandez was a bigger matchup nightmare than Gronk. Calling it now everybody gonna be on Hernandez's nuts this year and I'll sit back saying "I told you so." Hernandez is the most explosive player on the Pats right now.

Brb Shonn Greene, Cedric Benson > Chris Johnson?
Brb McGahee > SJax?
Brb Eli and Stafford > Aaron Rodgers?

I could go on.

Never go full retard bro...you cannot be serious that Hernandez is better than Graham or Davis. You simply cannot believe that.

Mr_Peepers
08-12-2012, 03:55 PM
Hernandez shouldn't even be listed as a TE. Has he blocked a DE even once? He is a slot receiver IMO.

That said, he's a good player

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 03:59 PM
Brb Shonn Greene, Cedric Benson > Chris Johnson?
Brb McGahee > SJax?
Brb Eli and Stafford > Aaron Rodgers?

I could go on.

Never go full retard bro...you cannot be serious that Hernandez is better than Graham or Davis. You simply cannot believe that.

Replace everything you just said but insert Eli Manning and other QB's. Nobody thought Eli would have the kind of season he did and nobody thinks Aaron Hernandez will do with what Gronk/Graham did last year. In b4 I'm exposed as a wizard.

SF49ers
08-12-2012, 04:03 PM
Replace everything you just said but insert Eli Manning and other QB's. Nobody thought Eli would have the kind of season he did and nobody thinks Aaron Hernandez will do with what Gronk/Graham did last year. In b4 I'm exposed as a wizard.

I think Hernandez is legit definitely, but if you put him on SF or ARI, I don't see him putting up his "normal" numbers.

Give me the numbers you are expecting. I am curious. Lloyd is going to be huge for NE, Gronk gonna Gronk...so Hernandez 60 rec 850 with 8 tds?

NJLife
08-12-2012, 04:06 PM
sometimes with so many options you just can't think clearly and decide which to go to.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 04:10 PM
I think Hernandez is legit definitely, but if you put him on SF or ARI, I don't see him putting up his "normal" numbers.

Give me the numbers you are expecting. I am curious. Lloyd is going to be huge for NE, Gronk gonna Gronk...so Hernandez 60 rec 850 with 8 tds?

I expect Gronk to have about 900yrds and 13Td's with Hernandez at about 1100yds and 11tds. Lloyd and Welker combine for about 1800yds and 16tds. Shane vereen/Danny Woodhead go for about 800yds, and 5tds and Gaffney/Plax(if he signs)/3rd TE combine for 500yds and 6tds.

High_Endurance
08-12-2012, 05:34 PM
.... and your point?

brady can only throw to one at a time.

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 05:45 PM
I always hate when I'm late for a good football discussion.

Rob Gronkowski imo is the unquestioned #1 TE in the league. Great receiver, his height, strength and decent speed make him a great threat for the Patriots but it's his blocking that puts him over the top of a guy like Jimmy Graham.

I have Graham second just because of how good he is as a receiver and he just may be scratching his potential.

Vernon Davis is #3 in the league but I would love to see him playing in an offense that throws the ball as much as NE/NO to really see what he has. He came up HUGE in the two playoff games last year and I hope the team continues to trust him.

EastCoast you know very well his hands are MUCH improved from the first few seasons. Those first few years I wanted to strangle him on how inconsistent he was. He's at a level now where he's busting his ass but we may never know how good he really is if Alex Smith doesn't step it up and the coaches don't let him throw.

For all the people arguing Hernandez is this and that, he's a receiver with a big of extra weight. He's a liability in the blocking department and the pats hardly use him there. Comparing him to other tight ends isn't fair but talent wise he's behind all 3 of these guys. Pat fans want to point to his numbers and forget Tom Brady is throwing him the ball while Davis has Alex Smith.

brb comparing players in offense which was 3rd in the league in pass attempts vs player who was on an offense which was 31st

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 05:48 PM
I always hate when I'm late for a good football discussion.

Rob Gronkowski imo is the unquestioned #1 TE in the league. Great receiver, his height, strength and decent speed make him a great threat for the Patriots but it's his blocking that puts him over the top of a guy like Jimmy Graham.

I have Graham second just because of how good he is as a receiver and he just may be scratching his potential.

Vernon Davis is #3 in the league but I would love to see him playing in an offense that throws the ball as much as NE/NO to really see what he has. He came up HUGE in the two playoff games last year and I hope the team continues to trust him.

EastCoast you know very well his hands are MUCH improved from the first few seasons. Those first few years I wanted to strangle him on how inconsistent he was. He's at a level now where he's busting his ass but we may never know how good he really is if Alex Smith doesn't step it up and the coaches don't let him throw.

For all the people arguing Hernandez is this and that, he's a receiver with a big of extra weight. He's a liability in the blocking department and the pats hardly use him there. Comparing him to other tight ends isn't fair but talent wise he's behind all 3 of these guys. Pat fans want to point to his numbers and forget Tom Brady is throwing him the ball while Davis has Alex Smith.

brb comparing players in offense which was 3rd in the league in pass attempts vs player who was on an offense which was 31st



http://www.unnecessaryumlaut.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/damn_friday.jpg

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 05:58 PM
Aaron Hernandez against the Giants: 12rec for 102yds and 2TD
Vernon Davis: 6 Rec for 152yds and 2TD's

We gonna act like the one 75yrd td catch isn't whats setting them apart?

That's cute bro...I like how you added up the stats from the regular season games as well to make it a lot closer. Hell you couldn't even add properly.

It's more like

Hernandez 12/102/2
Davis 6/152/3


Problem is the Giants D was a lot better later in the year when they got healthier and Vernon Davis wasn't as comfortable in the offense earlier in the year.

Oh and yeah there's the whole thing about Alex Smith only having 12 completions vs 27 by Brady against that D

Last I checked 50 yards and 1 TD is a pretty big difference, especially given other passing options and frequency of passing by each offense.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 06:17 PM
That's cute bro...I like how you added up the stats from the regular season games as well to make it a lot closer. Hell you couldn't even add properly.

It's more like

Hernandez 12/102/2
Davis 6/152/3


Problem is the Giants D was a lot better later in the year when they got healthier and Vernon Davis wasn't as comfortable in the offense earlier in the year.

Oh and yeah there's the whole thing about Alex Smith only having 12 completions vs 27 by Brady against that D

Last I checked 50 yards and 1 TD is a pretty big difference, especially given other passing options and frequency of passing by each offense.

Somebody brought up the Giants as a common opponent and I took the stats from both games. A lot of Niners fans in here clamming system this and system that so whats stopping you from claiming VD as the top TE in football and saying that Alex Smith holds him back? BRB Vernon Davis is more talented than Gronk, Graham, Gonzo, Witten but why don't you have him ranked ahead of them?

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Somebody brought up the Giants as a common opponent and I took the stats from both games. A lot of Niners fans in here clamming system this and system that so whats stopping you from claiming VD as the top TE in football and saying that Alex Smith holds him back? BRB Vernon Davis is more talented than Gronk, Graham, Gonzo, Witten but why don't you have him ranked ahead of them?

You should really pay attention to what you read.

That someone said this...





Meanwhile VD has put up big numbers being one of 2 guys on the 49ers that teams knew they would HAVE to stop, the other being Frank Gore. The fact that Davis had like 300 yds receiving in two playoff games last year, including putting up better numbers against the same Giants that Hernandez faced, should put this silly talk to rest.

He was clearly referring to the playoff performance but even then you still posted wrong numbers when combining the regular season for both guys. Short changed Davis by a touchdown. If you're going to misread something and post up stats that make it less lopsided then do it right.

And if you actually read what I said then you'd understand why I don't put Davis above Gronk or Graham. Those guys are very good at what they do and I can't just predict how Vernon would perform with those guys, which is why I said I would like to see him play with an offense/qb of that caliber.

But I can tell that as an overall player at the TE position Vernon is better than Hernandez who is a beefed up receiver. He has better numbers than Vernon Davis because he's the 3rd option on one of the best offenses in the league led by one of the best QBs in NFL history. Vernon Davis is the #1 option in the 31st ranked passing attack in the league last year and a QB who doesn't throw the ball much at all.

In the playoffs when they had to throw the ball Vernon put up close to 30 ypc

10 receptions 292 yards and 4 TDs in 2 games. Hernandez ever do something like that?

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 07:03 PM
You should really pay attention to what you read.

That someone said this...



He was clearly referring to the playoff performance but even then you still posted wrong numbers when combining the regular season for both guys. Short changed Davis by a touchdown. If you're going to misread something and post up stats that make it less lopsided then do it right.

And if you actually read what I said then you'd understand why I don't put Davis above Gronk or Graham. Those guys are very good at what they do and I can't just predict how Vernon would perform with those guys, which is why I said I would like to see him play with an offense/qb of that caliber.

But I can tell that as an overall player at the TE position Vernon is better than Hernandez who is a beefed up receiver. He has better numbers than Vernon Davis because he's the 3rd option on one of the best offenses in the league led by one of the best QBs in NFL history. Vernon Davis is the #1 option in the 31st ranked passing attack in the league last year and a QB who doesn't throw the ball much at all.

In the playoffs when they had to throw the ball Vernon put up close to 30 ypc

10 receptions 292 yards and 4 TDs in 2 games. Hernandez ever do something like that?

Nobody has ever done anything like that, and why are we only comparing Vernons best game against the giants and not the regular season game? Strong cherry picking. Don't get your jimmies rustled, this shiet is all subjective and Part of my reasoning is because of what I project Herandez to do. Honestly, I can't have him ranked above Jimmy because Jimmy is simply a bigger version and has the numbers to back it up. Vernon Davis was the 8th best Tight End when it comes to receiving but I give him more credit than that because of who he has throwing the ball to him but to assume that automatically places him 2nd or 3rd is pretty crazy. Talent wise He's 3rd in my book because he can block and Hernandez isn't even asked to but because Lesean McCoy is better coming out of the better than MJD does that necessarily make him the better back? No. Is Darren Sproles not a running back because he gets more receptions than carries? Nope. Calm down bro, I literally forgot to add Vernon's TD from the regular season game, nobody is trying jux your boy. But surely you don't want to compare some other common opponents ;). Basically were comparing integral parts of elite passing offenses to a guy who is a piece of one of the worst passing offenses in football.

truffles
08-12-2012, 07:10 PM
hernendez is a very tall receiver pretending to be a tightend.

TTexasTT
08-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Just wanted to drop off a pic of the greatest TE in the NFL

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/089/062/106877922_crop_650x440.jpg?1292359574
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nmc_4wittenhit03.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2010/NFL/WeeklyGallery/Week15/e1pg-vertical.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2009/NFL/weeklygallery/Week12/s091126_witten.jpg
http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/BigBlueCowboy/2011%20Rugby%20Footy%20and%20Football/FelixJones.jpg

n1e
08-12-2012, 07:27 PM
hernendez is a very tall receiver pretending to be a tightend.

not sure if sheriff...he's probably the shortest tight end in the league at 6'1", he'd be average height for a WR.

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 07:29 PM
Nobody has ever done anything like that, and why are we only comparing Vernons best game against the giants and not the regular season game? Strong cherry picking. Don't get your jimmies rustled, this shiet is all subjective and Part of my reasoning is because of what I project Herandez to do. Honestly, I can't have him ranked above Jimmy because Jimmy is simply a bigger version and has the numbers to back it up. Vernon Davis was the 8th best Tight End when it comes to receiving but I give him more credit than that because of who he has throwing the ball to him but to assume that automatically places him 2nd or 3rd is pretty crazy. Talent wise He's 3rd in my book because he can block and Hernandez isn't even asked to but because Lesean McCoy is better coming out of the better than MJD does that necessarily make him the better back? No. Is Darren Sproles not a running back because he gets more receptions than carries? Nope. Calm down bro, I literally forgot to add Vernon's TD from the regular season game, nobody is trying jux your boy. But surely you don't want to compare some other common opponents ;). Basically were comparing integral parts of elite passing offenses to a guy who is a piece of one of the worst passing offenses in football.

It's not cherry picking. Those were Vernon's only playoff games. Playoff games are what people usually bring up when it comes to evaluating player performance in big games.

The reason 49er fans are talking up Vernon Davis is because he's on record as saying he wasn't comfortable in the offense until late in the season so while I don't expect him to average 5 catches, 150 yards and 2 TDs a game it's a better indication of how he will play with Alex Smith going forward being more comfortable with the offense.

You're also on here talking like you have Hernandez as the top TE, now it sounds like you just expect him to put up the biggest numbers but we all know numbers don't tell the whole story in the NFL. I'm pretty sure in 2004 you didn't think that Peyton Manning was a better QB than Tom Brady(even in that case he was)

Hernandez probably will put up huge numbers but that's because he has Brady throwing to him and the Pats have no problem throwing the ball all game long. The 49ers are a run heavy team and throw the ball very infrequently. Vernon Davis is their #1 receiving threat while Aaron is #3 or maybe even #4 this year on the Pats. You said it yourself there in the end. Which player do you think has a tougher time putting up stats?

Personally I have nothing against the Pats, I live near Boston so as long as they don't impact the niners I root for the Pats and I think Hernandez is a very good receiving TE but I can't put him up that high in TE rankings. FF =/= real football.

n1e
08-12-2012, 07:29 PM
Just wanted to drop off a pic of the greatest TE in the NFL

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/089/062/106877922_crop_650x440.jpg?1292359574
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nmc_4wittenhit03.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2010/NFL/WeeklyGallery/Week15/e1pg-vertical.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2009/NFL/weeklygallery/Week12/s091126_witten.jpg
http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/BigBlueCowboy/2011%20Rugby%20Footy%20and%20Football/FelixJones.jpg

Let the homerism flow through you. I'm sure every knowledgeable NFL fan will tell you Gronkowski is the current undisputed best TE in the league.

Stteven
08-12-2012, 07:32 PM
just LOL at the Cowboys homer, Witten is good but nowhere near the best.

1. Gronk
2. Graham
3. Davis

Hernandez shouldn't even really be considered a TE as he hardly blocks in the offence; that being said, he is a super dynamic receiver in NE... Brady has so many damn targets.

Davis could easily be number 1 or 2 but has Alex Smith throwing to him...

scotyg
08-12-2012, 07:34 PM
Tony Moeaki and Kevin Boss will be a very good combo for us, and we will be running lots of 2 TE sets,


but

they probably will combine for only 7-800 yards or so. Because 1) there won't be enough touches to go around with JC and Hillis running the ball and after Bowe, Baldwin, and McCluster get their targets and 2) Cassel is not going to be throwing for 5000 yards

TTexasTT
08-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Let the homerism flow through you. I'm sure every knowledgeable NFL fan will tell you Gronkowski is the current undisputed best TE in the league.
Let the homerism flow through you.

Im pretty sure most people outside that ****hole you call home will tell you he isnt.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120423-jay-novacek-on-jason-witten-he-s-the-best-tight-end-that-has-ever-played.ece
http://thedctimes.com/2010/06/nfls-top-20-tight-ends-is-jason-witten-the-leagues-best/
Have a look at my hand picked sources to back me up.

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Let the homerism flow through you.

Im pretty sure most people outside that ****hole you call home will tell you he isnt.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120423-jay-novacek-on-jason-witten-he-s-the-best-tight-end-that-has-ever-played.ece
http://thedctimes.com/2010/06/nfls-top-20-tight-ends-is-jason-witten-the-leagues-best/
Have a look at my hand picked sources to back me up.

lol you're funny.

brb article from 2010 when Gronk wasn't even in the league and a response from a former Dallas player talking to the DALLAS news.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 07:45 PM
Just wanted to drop off a pic of the greatest TE in the NFL




Your quarterback's name rhymes with "homo", therefore you point is invalid.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 07:48 PM
not sure if sheriff...he's probably the shortest tight end in the league at 6'1", he'd be average height for a WR.


So he's a short stocky WR. Its obvious he can't block for ****, then again he really isn't asked to do so in the that offense. Its become obvious that players who do well in New England's system, don't necessarily have the same success elsewhere. Playing with Brady and guys like Welker and Gronkowski creates the ultimate outlier.

TTexasTT
08-12-2012, 07:49 PM
Your quarterback's name rhymes with "homo", therefore you point is invalid.
Stats: 5'9", 252 lbs. Your stats are disgusting, therefore "you" point is invalid.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 07:56 PM
It's not cherry picking. Those were Vernon's only playoff games. Playoff games are what people usually bring up when it comes to evaluating player performance in big games.
Two games is simply not a big enough sample size. He came up big last year but I don't think that will ever be repeated.

The reason 49er fans are talking up Vernon Davis is because he's on record as saying he wasn't comfortable in the offense until late in the season so while I don't expect him to average 5 catches, 150 yards and 2 TDs a game it's a better indication of how he will play with Alex Smith going forward being more comfortable with the offense.

You're also on here talking like you have Hernandez as the top TE, now it sounds like you just expect him to put up the biggest numbers but we all know numbers don't tell the whole story in the NFL. I'm pretty sure in 2004 you didn't think that Peyton Manning was a better QB than Tom Brady(even in that case he was)
I do, Peyton had an amazing season just like Rodgers did this year. The title best in the NFL seems to change every year. Last year AP or CJ were the best backs in the NFL. This year people are saying Arian, Lesean, MJD. I also never said Hernandez was the best tight end in football, the Pats have another guy that holds that title. Numbers don't tell the whole story in the NFL but they do tell a big part of it and they do play a huge factor in ranking players. LIke I said Hernandez isn't the best all-around TE.
Hernandez probably will put up huge numbers but that's because he has Brady throwing to him and the Pats have no problem throwing the ball all game long. The 49ers are a run heavy team and throw the ball very infrequently. Vernon Davis is their #1 receiving threat while Aaron is #3 or maybe even #4 this year on the Pats. You said it yourself there in the end. Which player do you think has a tougher time putting up stats?
Hernadez will put up huge numbers because hes an absolute matchup night mare and he's virtually uncover able in man because of his size/speed combination. He's closer to 6'3 than 6'1. I think the Patriots will be a bit more towards 55-45 when it comes to pass run because McDaniels actually likes to run the ball.

Personally I have nothing against the Pats, I live near Boston so as long as they don't impact the niners I root for the Pats and I think Hernandez is a very good receiving TE but I can't put him up that high in TE rankings. FF =/= real football.

Again Vernon is the better all around TE but Hernandez is developing into one of the most dynamic players in football. This is becoming the whole Brady/Rodgers debate. Brady is phenomenal at one thing and Rodgers is phenomenal at everything.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 07:58 PM
Again Vernon is the better all around TE but Hernandez is developing into one of the most dynamic players in football. This is becoming the whole Brady/Rodgers debate. Brady is phenomenal at one thing and Rodgers is phenomenal at everything.


LOL if you think Hernandez is to VD the way Brady is to Rodgers, you're still on dat dere crack.



A more apt comparison would be Wes Welker to Andre Johnson.

iamgenus
08-12-2012, 08:00 PM
Again Vernon is the better all around TE but Hernandez is developing into one of the most dynamic players in football. This is becoming the whole Brady/Rodgers debate. Brady is phenomenal at one thing and Rodgers is phenomenal at everything.

Nah it's not becoming that. Not sure at this point why we're going back and forth. OP made a thread claiming Gronk/Hernandez were the best 2 in the game, I and many others disagreed. I have AH at #4 after Vernon at this point. If we're ranking pure TE I'd drop him even further down.

GrecoRoman
08-12-2012, 08:00 PM
LOL if you think Hernandez is to VD the way Brady is to Rodgers, you're still on dat dere crack.



A more apt comparison would be Wes Welker to Andre Johnson.

interdasting, one of the GOAT receivers called wes welker the best receiver in the NFL.


Nah it's not becoming that. Not sure at this point why we're going back and forth. OP made a thread claiming Gronk/Hernandez were the best 2 in the game, I and many others disagreed. I have AH at #4 after Vernon at this point. If we're ranking pure TE I'd drop him even further down.

Brady Rodgers in comparison to skill set. Obviously its not a TE version of Brady/Rodgers because neither are the best TE in football. I will be exposed as a wizard in january.

ElMariachi
08-12-2012, 08:01 PM
interdasting, one of the GOAT receivers called wes welker the best receiver in the NFL.


Interdasting. Next.

EastCoastNiner
08-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Again, both players are excellent, but the areas where Davis has an edge, are bigger than any areas where Hernandez may have an edge.

I can probably find some of the articles later, but I've seen multiple breakdowns about Davis and when he stays in to block (which seemed like 90% of the plays until last season), and the numbers are pretty mind-boggling at how good of a blocker he is.

Both have weaknesses, although both are improving in those areas. Many people like to say Davis has terrible hands, but they have been vastly improving each and every season. Hernandez has trouble holding onto the ball in the open field, and I worry a lot when he's running with the ball if he's going to fumble, but he's improving on that as well.

Davis is just more of a physical specimen than Hernandez, but I still think Hernandez seems to be getting undervalued in this thread. He's one of the most impressive players in the open field when he has the ball in his hands, which a lot of people don't realize.

I see both players pretty much every game they play during the regular season, and Davis is the better player, but Hernandez can still improve a LOT, which is extremely scary for the rest of the NFL.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think that we will be witnessing NFL history multiple times this season.

CBN180
08-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

hmmm..

Anyways I hope your kidding..

Vernon is a way better TE than Hernandez. Hernandez is no where near the blocker or athlete Vernon is, nor will he ever be.

In fact I would say that Vernon is the best TE in the NFL. Best blocker, put him on a team that knows how to utilize him and he would also put up great stats.

Other TEs who could be considered to be better as well:
- Graham
- Gates
- Witten


By the way people who are saying Hernandez is better based on stats need to realize that a TE also has to block, not just catch passes.

But still they are a very impressive TE duo to say the least.

Nara62629
08-12-2012, 09:56 PM
VD is the most gifted TE, but not the best(right now). Gronk is a better overall TE, def #1 right now. Graham is a better receiver. Vernon is def the better blocker, stronger, faster. if i had to rank them, they'd be 2a and 2b after Gronk.

what he really lacks is agility and route running. He can run fast, but he doesn't know how to find soft spots in zones. His hands have also gotten a lot better which is what puts him in this discussion. Reports out of TC are that he's improved his route running. We'll see how much better he has gotten, he may become the best TE in the league next year, but I doubt the numbers will show that.

iamgenus
08-13-2012, 04:29 AM
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

hmmm..

Anyways I hope your kidding..

Vernon is a way better TE than Hernandez. Hernandez is no where near the blocker or athlete Vernon is, nor will he ever be.

In fact I would say that Vernon is the best TE in the NFL. Best blocker, put him on a team that knows how to utilize him and he would also put up great stats.

Other TEs who could be considered to be better as well:
- Graham
- Gates
- Witten


By the way people who are saying Hernandez is better based on stats need to realize that a TE also has to block, not just catch passes.

But still they are a very impressive TE duo to say the least.

Not mention of Gronk? Do you even NFL?

yourname2221
08-13-2012, 04:51 AM
A more apt comparison would be Wes Welker to Andre Johnson.

Just wanted to say that everyone of your posts in this thread I have fully agreed with. As well as iamgenus's both of you will be receiving reppage on spread.

I wonder why OP is still pushing this 3 pages in and not one person has agree with him on Hernandez. Product of the system, simple. VD wipes the field with Hernandez

kethnaab
08-13-2012, 05:14 AM
Just wanted to say that everyone of your posts in this thread I have fully agreed with. As well as iamgenus's both of you will be receiving reppage on spread.

I wonder why OP is still pushing this 3 pages in and not one person has agree with him on Hernandez. Product of the system, simple. VD wipes the field with Hernandez

this.

pure humor.

Hernandez is certainly beast, but is there a single non-Pats homer who agrees with OP?

bmp010
06-26-2013, 10:49 PM
Jake Ballard and Tim Tebow are the 2 best TEs in the league? News to me.

ElMariachi
06-26-2013, 11:03 PM
Jake Ballard and Tim Tebow are the 2 best TEs in the league? News to me.


I swear, you're one cheeky **** mate. :P

ElMariachi
06-26-2013, 11:04 PM
VD is the most gifted TE, but not the best(right now). Gronk is a better overall TE, def #1 right now. Graham is a better receiver. Vernon is def the better blocker, stronger, faster. if i had to rank them, they'd be 2a and 2b after Gronk.

what he really lacks is agility and route running. He can run fast, but he doesn't know how to find soft spots in zones. His hands have also gotten a lot better which is what puts him in this discussion. Reports out of TC are that he's improved his route running. We'll see how much better he has gotten, he may become the best TE in the league next year, but I doubt the numbers will show that.



Yeah, but Vernon is healthier. :P

EastCoastNiner
06-26-2013, 11:19 PM
Yeah, but Vernon is healthier. :P

I know you were talking about Gronkowski, but Davis and Hernandez are just polar opposites as people it seems. They have similar football talent, but I would never expect Davis to get involved in any major crime off the field. I'd expect him to be lifting the weights or making some paintings.

Over the past few years I've started to care less about a players character when watching the draft and free-agency, but that view may be changing quickly.

GrecoRoman
06-26-2013, 11:26 PM
in b4 Brades turns Ballard into the number 2 TE in football.

AirCanada
06-26-2013, 11:27 PM
lol no,
ban bet, Aaron Hernandez vs Vernon Davis in receiving yards.

Lol Hernandez has him beat by a fukking mile.

Oh receiving yards? I thought that said receiving years.

TTexasTT
06-26-2013, 11:29 PM
Just wanted to drop off a pic of the greatest TE in the NFL

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/089/062/106877922_crop_650x440.jpg?1292359574
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nmc_4wittenhit03.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2010/NFL/WeeklyGallery/Week15/e1pg-vertical.jpg
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/gallery/2009/NFL/weeklygallery/Week12/s091126_witten.jpg
http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad104/BigBlueCowboy/2011%20Rugby%20Footy%20and%20Football/FelixJones.jpg


As usual, time proves that Im right.

I win.... again.

Proactive99
06-26-2013, 11:37 PM
Lol Hernandez has him beat by a fukking mile.

Oh receiving yards? I thought that said receiving years.

Lol

ElMariachi
06-27-2013, 12:03 AM
I know you were talking about Gronkowski, but Davis and Hernandez are just polar opposites as people it seems. They have similar football talent, but I would never expect Davis to get involved in any major crime off the field. I'd expect him to be lifting the weights or making some paintings.

Over the past few years I've started to care less about a players character when watching the draft and free-agency, but that view may be changing quickly.


Davis was by all accounts, kind of a jerk until Singletary showed him up, after that point he's become a model football player as well as leader on and off the field, good character guy, great in the local community...etc. Sometimes young guys just need someone to throw down the gauntlet to them and get them to snap out of it.

thickwall
06-27-2013, 12:07 AM
Davis was by all accounts, kind of a jerk until Singletary showed him up, after that point he's become a model football player as well as leader on and off the field, good character guy, great in the local community...etc. Sometimes young guys just need someone to throw down the gauntlet to them and get them to snap out of it.

Mariachi, I've never seen you post this much.. A Latino makes headlines and you start going ape**** with the posting


http://assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

ElMariachi
06-27-2013, 12:45 AM
Mariachi, I've never seen you post this much.. A Latino makes headlines and you start going ape**** with the posting


http://assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif


LOL, wut?

thickwall
06-27-2013, 12:52 AM
LOL, wut?


It's okay bro, i mean amigo! I remember seeing you go ape**** in a thread i made about some hot latina dancing her little booty off. A bunch of guys were ragging on Mexican chicks, and you went on a crazy 100pg rant filled with pics and statistics.. Don't worry about it, hermano.

Latino power!


http://behance.vo.llnwd.net/profiles18/612277/projects/3744633/6b07457e064292118ec42f5872cf58cf.jpg

ElMariachi
06-27-2013, 01:08 AM
It's okay bro, i mean amigo! I remember seeing you go ape**** in a thread i made about some hot latina dancing her little booty off. A bunch of guys were ragging on Mexican chicks, and you went on a crazy 100pg rant filled with pics and statistics.. Don't worry about it, hermano.

Latino power!


http://behance.vo.llnwd.net/profiles18/612277/projects/3744633/6b07457e064292118ec42f5872cf58cf.jpg


Bro, I got like 36,000+ posts, I've posted quite a lot on pretty much everything. :P

thickwall
06-27-2013, 01:44 AM
Bro, I got like 36,000+ posts, I've posted quite a lot on pretty much everything. :P

Usted no tiene que esconder

iamgenus
06-27-2013, 04:39 AM
lol no,
ban bet, Aaron Hernandez vs Vernon Davis in receiving yards.

Davis 548
Da Badass 483 + 20 to life

Davis wins.

Then again I'm sure now that Hernandez isn't a patriot everyone will say he sucks anyways.

GrecoRoman
06-27-2013, 05:14 AM
Davis 548
Da Badass 483 + 20 to life

Davis wins.

Then again I'm sure now that Hernandez isn't a patriot everyone will say he sucks anyways.

Davis: 16 games

Hernandez: 10+20 to life

I should have known Edelman would fall on him and rape his ankle....

iamgenus
06-27-2013, 01:12 PM
Davis: 16 games

Hernandez: 10+20 to life

I should have known Edelman would fall on him and rape his ankle....

Staying healthy is a bonus wouldn't you say?

Either way I think it's safe to say Hernandez won't have a chance to improve on those numbers. What a waste of talent.

TheRejuvenated
06-27-2013, 01:23 PM
Dwayne Allen <3 and sort of coby fleener. meh.