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View Full Version : Not sure if this is the right section but deperately need some advice.



LukaSarapa
07-25-2012, 02:23 PM
ok this is going to be quite long but please bare with me.

around march I decided to join a gym and get in shape. My motivation was looking in the mirror and coming to the realisation that i looked horrible. I've always been fairly big (not fat) with broad shoulders and a wide frame but years of eating crap, drinking alchohol and never lifting any weights left me with broad frame but with no muscles and a big protruding gut. To be hones I looked a hot mess, something close to skinny fat but not not boney enough to be really called skinny.

So anyway when i first started at the gym my whole goal was to lose the fat and build some muscle so i would have a lean muscular physique. Big mistake. I dieted and lifted and now four months down the line I am left with people a really skinny frame with still not much muscle mass and only a slightly smaller gut. People have been making comments asking that I have lost a lot of weight and even insinuating that i might be ill with the amount of weight i've lost in such short time (i think i may have overdone my calorie deficit). When I suck in whats left of my gut i can see the faint outline of a six pack so i have made some gains in the gym which were probably just noob gains as I now know you can not build any serious muscle and lose fat at the same time.

My question to the forum is this. I wanna start again and focus on building muscle before cutting but I am worried that the small progress I have made in losing that small weight around my abdominals will be for nothing. It seem easy for me to put on weight there but hard as hell to lose it. I wanna know if I go on a clean bulk and eat mainly clean foods at a surplus will the fat I gain while doing so be more evenly distributed, give me a better body composition and not just end up making me look like a 9 month pregnant woman again. If this is possible what foods would be better for me to achieve this (muscle gain with minimal fat gain).

My next question is I know it is nearly impossible to eat at a calorie deficit and build muscle but how hard is it to build muscle and eat at maintenance. If I o this and can build some muscle I am guessing I will be burning fat at the same time am I right ?

I did warn you this would be long but if you read it all the way through thank you I would appreciate your help and sorry for the noobish questions.

texicus
07-25-2012, 02:30 PM
ok this is going to be quite long but please bare with me.

around march I decided to join a gym and get in shape. My motivation was looking in the mirror and coming to the realisation that i looked horrible. I've always been fairly big (not fat) with broad shoulders and a wide frame but years of eating crap, drinking alchohol and never lifting any weights left me with broad frame but with no muscles and a big protruding gut. To be hones I looked a hot mess, something close to skinny fat but not not boney enough to be really called skinny.

So anyway when i first started at the gym my whole goal was to lose the fat and build some muscle so i would have a lean muscular physique. Big mistake. I dieted and lifted and now four months down the line I am left with people a really skinny frame with still not much muscle mass and only a slightly smaller gut. People have been making comments asking that I have lost a lot of weight and even insinuating that i might be ill with the amount of weight i've lost in such short time (i think i may have overdone my calorie deficit). When I suck in whats left of my gut i can see the faint outline of a six pack so i have made some gains in the gym which were probably just noob gains as I now know you can not build any serious muscle and lose fat at the same time.

My question to the forum is this. I wanna start again and focus on building muscle before cutting but I am worried that the small progress I have made in losing that small weight around my abdominals will be for nothing. It seem easy for me to put on weight there but hard as hell to lose it. I wanna know if I go on a clean bulk and eat mainly clean foods at a surplus will the fat I gain while doing so be more evenly distributed, give me a better body composition and not just end up making me look like a 9 month pregnant woman again. If this is possible what foods would be better for me to achieve this (muscle gain with minimal fat gain).

My next question is I know it is nearly impossible to eat at a calorie deficit and build muscle but how hard is it to build muscle and eat at maintenance. If I o this and can build some muscle I am guessing I will be burning fat at the same time am I right ?

I did warn you this would be long but if you read it all the way through thank you I would appreciate your help and sorry for the noobish questions.

Your muscle loss might have been due to insufficient protein intake

If you eat at a slight deficit, you should start to see your bf% go down but maintain your lifts, try a -500 kcal deficit. You're only been lifting for four months, you can still cut and gain muscle.

LukaSarapa
07-25-2012, 02:41 PM
Your muscle loss might have been due to insufficient protein intake

If you eat at a slight deficit, you should start to see your bf% go down but maintain your lifts, try a -500 kcal deficit. You're only been lifting for four months, you can still cut and gain muscle.

thanks. I have been trying to get the sufficient amount of protein even though i've been on a deficit 0.80-1g per body weight. would eating at maintenance help me build a more muscular physique without putting on more fat ?

egoneo
07-25-2012, 02:51 PM
thanks. I have been trying to get the sufficient amount of protein even though i've been on a deficit 0.80-1g per body weight. would eating at maintenance help me build a more muscular physique without putting on more fat ?

can you post pics? Sounds to me like youre trying to jump the gun by doing both at the same time. Take your time. putting on muscle while eating at maintenance will take a veryyyyy long time, and you'll probably only achieve noob gains. After that you'll stall. I find if you eat above maintenance on workout days and eat maintenance on non workout you can limit the fat gain, and gain around 1-2lbs of muscle a month. or you can try googling "leangains" and read up on that, but apart from that just bulk and pack out with muscle. It'll feel better when you eventually start cutting. IF you cut now all youll see is is a skinny bony frame.

Leprechauns1021
07-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Pics would help assess your situation. But for where youre at, try eating at a surplus and lifting hard. With proper intensity in the gym+slight surplus+noob gains will give you the best body composition results most likely.

Try not to associate bulking with getting fat, which it seems like you might think. If you're doing it right, you won't get "fat". You'll gain some fat, but there's no reason to look like **** while bulking.

LukaSarapa
07-25-2012, 03:03 PM
can you post pics? Sounds to me like youre trying to jump the gun by doing both at the same time. Take your time. putting on muscle while eating at maintenance will take a veryyyyy long time, and you'll probably only achieve noob gains. After that you'll stall. I find if you eat above maintenance on workout days and eat maintenance on non workout you can limit the fat loss and gain around 1-2lbs of muscle a month. or you can try googling "leangains" and read up on that, but apart from that just bulk and pack out with muscle. It'll feel better when you eventually start cutting. IF you cut now all youll see is is a skinny bony frame.


Pics would help assess your situation. But for where youre at, try eating at a surplus and lifting hard. With proper intensity in the gym+slight surplus+noob gains will give you the best body composition results most likely.

Try not to associate bulking with getting fat, which it seems like you might think. If you're doing it right, you won't get "fat". You'll gain some fat, but there's no reason to look like **** while bulking.

i posted pics in another thread but people where saying they were too small and I cant figure out how to resize them. I will post again but dont know if you will really be able to judge.They were taken a few weeks ago by the way so I have dropped more weight (and probably more muscle) since then.

astuzia007
07-25-2012, 03:17 PM
i posted pics in another thread but people where saying they were too small and I cant figure out how to resize them. I will post again but dont know if you will really be able to judge.They were taken a few weeks ago by the way so I have dropped more weight (and probably more muscle) since then.

Transition into a bulk, your increased strength will help you make good gains. Bulk at 120% of maintenance (use the stickys) making sure to get adequate protein and fat. You can eat 'clean' and almost everyone eats some amount of clean foods but don't buy into the myth that a meal of chicken, brown rice and broccoli is any better than lean pork sauteed with some veggies followed by some ice cream.

When you decide to cut again try a more sensible deficit (20%) and if you hit a plateau then increase the cardio slighltly and consider an ec stack.

LukaSarapa
07-25-2012, 03:23 PM
thanks

repped everyone ITT

egoneo
07-25-2012, 03:28 PM
i posted pics in another thread but people where saying they were too small and I cant figure out how to resize them. I will post again but dont know if you will really be able to judge.They were taken a few weeks ago by the way so I have dropped more weight (and probably more muscle) since then.

1. whats your workout routine/split?

2. whats your diet like? are you getting at least 1g/pound of protein and 0.45g/pound of fat and the rest of your calories from carbs?

you actually look similar to me when i started out, my shoulders were slightly broader, but you have decent traps. Your arms are really long from the looks of it and im guessing you have chicken legs. Anyway to cut things short you need to bulk. Its a lot longer process than cutting (for most) so if you feel you want to shed some fat off before you start then do it now, and pick a timeframe lets say end of August to start.

LukaSarapa
07-25-2012, 03:38 PM
1. whats your workout routine/split?

2. whats your diet like? are you getting at least 1g/pound of protein and 0.45g/pound of fat and the rest of your calories from carbs?

you actually look similar to me when i started out, my shoulders were slightly broader, but you have decent traps. Your arms are really long from the looks of it and im guessing you have chicken legs. Anyway to cut things short you need to bulk. Its a lot longer process than cutting (for most) so if you feel you want to shed some fat off before you start then do it now, and pick a timeframe lets say end of August to start.

You're right about the chicken legs but i'm working on that lol

My routine is as follows;

Mon - Chest, shoulders and triceps
tue - legs
fri - back and biceps

I do a lit bit of abs with each day and mix it up with a bit of cardio in between when I can. I cant really tell you what specific exercises I do because I like to mix it up and do different exercises each time I hit the gym but i generally keep to that split.

As for my diet I am getting close to 1 pound of protein per total bodyweight, fat is round about 0.45 maybe sometimes a bit less and the rest is carbs mainly brown rice/pasta wholemeal bread oats or muesli for breakfast.

egoneo
07-25-2012, 05:01 PM
You're right about the chicken legs but i'm working on that lol

My routine is as follows;

Mon - Chest, shoulders and triceps
tue - legs
fri - back and biceps

I do a lit bit of abs with each day and mix it up with a bit of cardio in between when I can. I cant really tell you what specific exercises I do because I like to mix it up and do different exercises each time I hit the gym but i generally keep to that split.

As for my diet I am getting close to 1 pound of protein per total bodyweight, fat is round about 0.45 maybe sometimes a bit less and the rest is carbs mainly brown rice/pasta wholemeal bread oats or muesli for breakfast.

can you add a couple more workout days to your week like do a five day split instead of three?
you can change isolation excercises each time if you want but you should definitely be constant with the big compound movements so for chest day make sure youre dumbell/barbell benching and doing dips, for legs make sure youre doing squats and straight legged deadlifts, for back make sure youre doing barbell rows and regular deadlifts. Go hard and go heavy

LukaSarapa
07-26-2012, 10:24 AM
can you add a couple more workout days to your week like do a five day split instead of three?
you can change isolation excercises each time if you want but you should definitely be constant with the big compound movements so for chest day make sure youre dumbell/barbell benching and doing dips, for legs make sure youre doing squats and straight legged deadlifts, for back make sure youre doing barbell rows and regular deadlifts. Go hard and go heavy

the reason I do a 3 day split instead of 5 is because theres really only 3 days in the wee that i can really work out because of my job. I work shifts so usually 3 days of the week i work during the dayand two days i work until about 9 pm by which time my gym is nearly ready for closing time. I guess i could try and fit in a session on the days i work late in the morning before I stat work.

I do try and do at least one or two compound movements every time i workout out. Bench press/squats/dips and pullups. Deadlifts I don't do because i'm not comfortable with my form and i dont wanna start snapping **** up. I do lift heavy (or as heavy as my body will let me) but now that i'm gonna start bulking after everyones advice ITT i should hopefully start lifting even heavier and harder.

Thanks for the advice. Any more advice or if anyone else wants to weigh in I appreciate it.

Oh yeah and what do you guys think about weight gainers? should i add one of these to my diet for days that I cant get sufficient calories? or will it just help me pile more fat back on instead of helping me gain mass?

gebailey
07-26-2012, 01:56 PM
Hey man,

I can relate a little to the frustration of it. I went on an insane cut a few years ago that left me with aqequate strength but I lost a ton of muscle mass. I wanted that six pack bad man, real bad. Didn't eat enough so i lost a lot of mass and still no six pack. I was down to like 150 which is way to small for my height I felt. Got back after it and put on weight. The thing about gaining weight is that you might have to up maybe like one pant size (if more, your eating too much) but you will look way better proportionally. I also struggled with the mirror but focus on gaining strength eating at at least maitenance sounds like a good idea to me I did that and every now and then had a cheat day but no big deal. Just dumping ideas out that might relate to your situation, make sure your getting enough food to nourish your body - that is crucial.

LukaSarapa
07-26-2012, 04:26 PM
Hey man,

I can relate a little to the frustration of it. I went on an insane cut a few years ago that left me with aqequate strength but I lost a ton of muscle mass. I wanted that six pack bad man, real bad. Didn't eat enough so i lost a lot of mass and still no six pack. I was down to like 150 which is way to small for my height I felt. Got back after it and put on weight. The thing about gaining weight is that you might have to up maybe like one pant size (if more, your eating too much) but you will look way better proportionally. I also struggled with the mirror but focus on gaining strength eating at at least maitenance sounds like a good idea to me I did that and every now and then had a cheat day but no big deal. Just dumping ideas out that might relate to your situation, make sure your getting enough food to nourish your body - that is crucial.

thanks man. some encourage words

Spoonfeed
07-27-2012, 06:57 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lLxsk8VbWjI/TuzYjH_fZ0I/AAAAAAAAAGA/ataKoGoa284/s640/starving-child-1.jpg

Please tell us more about desperation.