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View Full Version : Christians, is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?



stezus
06-26-2012, 06:13 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer


Dahmer served his time at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wisconsin, where he ultimately declared himself a born-again Christian. This conversion occurred after viewing evangelical material sent to him by his father.[48] Roy Ratcliff, a local preacher from the Churches of Christ, met with Dahmer and agreed to baptize him

Dat dere salvation

Harbinger
06-26-2012, 06:19 PM
Based solely on the few lines of text you quoted, I'd say yes.

rdferguson
06-26-2012, 06:20 PM
Only one way to find out.

stezus
06-26-2012, 06:21 PM
Based solely on the few lines of text you quoted, I'd say yes.

Heaven must be great!

SheHadMANHands
06-26-2012, 06:25 PM
A life well lived. Send me a postcard from the pearly gates Dahmer!

anonymousceleb
06-26-2012, 06:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer



Dat dere salvation

My guess is no.

I think born again Christians are crazy anyway, whether or not they're immoral.

Nobody is going to know about heaven here, so why ask?

stezus
06-26-2012, 06:32 PM
My guess is no.

I think born again Christians are crazy anyway, whether or not they're immoral.

Nobody is going to know about heaven here, so why ask?

Then why do they speak with authority on who goes to hell?



Derplogic

anonymousceleb
06-26-2012, 06:32 PM
Then why do they speak with authority on who goes to hell?



Derplogic

Did I say anything to indicate I speak for them? No.

cman1787
06-26-2012, 06:40 PM
well heaven is said to be conscious attunement with god, so...........................................

stezus
06-26-2012, 06:41 PM
Did I say anything to indicate I speak for them? No.

How the fck do i know what side you're on. I addressed this question to christians, and unless you give a sarcastic answer, I'm gonna assume you're a christian if you answer it.

anonymousceleb
06-26-2012, 06:46 PM
How the fck do i know what side you're on. I addressed this question to christians, and unless you give a sarcastic answer, I'm gonna assume you're a christian if you answer it.

Yeah, I'm a Christian. There are different kinds of Christians. Dahmer is apparently a kind of Christian. That doesn't mean I'm on the same team as him, or the Pope, or those freaks from that movie Jesus Camp, etc.

Someone posting on this board who claims to know who does and does not go to heaven is only guessing. For all I know it's like the old South Park joke and only Mormon's go to heaven.

I'm sorry if you were expecting an answer from a fanatical Christian.

stezus
06-26-2012, 06:49 PM
Yeah, I'm a Christian. There are different kinds of Christians. Dahmer is apparently a kind of Christian. That doesn't mean I'm on the same team as him, or the Pope, or those freaks from that movie Jesus Camp, etc.

Someone posting on this board who claims to know who does and does not go to heaven is only guessing. For all I know it's like the old South Park joke and only Mormon's go to heaven.

I'm sorry if you were expecting an answer from a fanatical Christian.

You seem rational so I'm curious what your reasoning is for believing?

chalup
06-26-2012, 07:13 PM
You seem rational so I'm curious what your reasoning is for believing?

Hold up, you want a rational answer to an illrational question? How the fuk does this work?

Mr Beer
06-26-2012, 07:24 PM
Well if Dahmer truly repented and accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour, of course he deserves to go to Heaven. Too bad about that Ghandi, better fry his unrepenting heathen arse for all eternity.

chalup
06-26-2012, 07:27 PM
Well if Dahmer truly repented and accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour, of course he deserves to go to Heaven. Too bad about that Ghandi, better fry his unrepenting heathen arse for all eternity.

To bad thou shalt not judge and any chirstian following this principle could not answer this question without sinning. Talk about a straw man post.. LOLZ

Violator009
06-26-2012, 07:32 PM
no one knows Op

mistercollie
06-26-2012, 09:03 PM
The condition of all the dead at this time in human history is non-existence. Therefore he's certainly not in heaven. As argued in the thread Why Do Christians Say Salvation is Conditional, (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=142729491) I would say there is no basis for condemning Dahmer for his past life.

No atheist will be able to refute my scriptural argument, for certainly no experienced theist has managed to do so on a different board I frequent. This does not mean his actions have been condoned - by NO means - but means that he was not given a fair life (as no one is).

At any rate, a judgment of Dahmer's first life would be based upon what he is, not who he is. Who a person becomes is contingent with what a person is, which is directly influenced by genetics, environment, and sociability (perhaps far more).

I don't believe Dahmer truly had the complete freedom to direct his own development. As a teen, he was addicted to hardcore pornography (of which, I believe, led to his "gore porn"), had very little social support (being homosexual didn't help that), and dabbled in the occult. This exposure at a young age would undoubtedly fruition into a terrible monster. Where he used to live (25th street) is actually less than seven blocks from where I live now.


Well if Dahmer truly repented and accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour, of course he deserves to go to Heaven. Too bad about that Ghandi, better fry his unrepenting heathen arse for all eternity.An atheist's ability to misquote another person's faith is a disgustingly low ability to be proud of, appalling really. This was a very real man with very serious mental problems who committed very real crimes.

If you think this is some laughing matter, then I really feel sorry for you. Furthermore, your entire post is debunked and you probably couldn't spend a single second logically defending your statement as true.

rdferguson
06-26-2012, 09:09 PM
My guess is no.

I think born again Christians are crazy anyway, whether or not they're immoral.

Nobody is going to know about heaven here, so why ask?
According to the bible, if you're a Christian you are born again, by definition. Jesus defined all Christians (before the term "Christian" had even been coined) as people who had been born again in spirit. Now of course there are a lot of crazies under the Christian umbrella, and the outspoken crazies are more often heard using the term "born again" than their more down-to-earth brothers and sisters, but if you don't believe that being born again is a requirement of Christianity, then I have to assume that you either haven't actually read the gospels, or you don't take them seriously.

SheHadMANHands
06-26-2012, 09:20 PM
- Man desires to live forever.
- Man desires to be reunited with lost family/friends.
- Man makes up convenient tale of eternal, conscious bliss beyond death, suspending rational discourse and ignoring empirical evidence to the contrary.




































































- Man writes in depth page long "analysis" concerning how another man will fare in this imagined afterlife.













































































http://weblogs.variety.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/12/curb.jpg

smokeater
06-26-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't know much about Dahmer but I had that same question put to me about Ted Bundy. Bundy had allegedly given his life to Christ shortly before he was executed and even interviewed with James Dobson the night before he died. Watching the interview with Dobson paints a very compelling story about a man who has done evil in his life and turned it around. Well to the person who doesn't know Ted Bundy perhaps. What I saw was what I believe to be one last master manipulation by a skilled predator who had spent decades learning how to get other people to make themselves vulnerable to him.

Being saved requires a genuine repentance for what you've done. Based on everything I've read on Bundy I don't think he is capable of that because his mind just doesn't work that way. People who are capable of that level of evil don't just suddenly become like the rest of us when we realize that we've done something wrong and feel bad about it. Based on what I know about Dahmer I'd say he is in this category of person.

anotheruser
06-26-2012, 10:29 PM
My guess is no.

I think born again Christians are crazy anyway, whether or not they're immoral.

Nobody is going to know about heaven here, so why ask?

Ok, born again doesn't really mean that they're crazy. Lots of people say that just to say that they weren't Christians, or at least not true Christians, before they found their faith later in life.

But there's also a lot of people who collectively call themselves born agains who are nuts too.


But if he repented and was truly contrite and accepted Christ into his heart, Christian doctrine says that he would be saved. I'd think that this would have to be accompanied with action too, but hard to see how one could do that from a cell.

Maiar
06-26-2012, 10:32 PM
At any rate, a judgment of Dahmer's first life would be based upon what he is, not who he is. Who a person becomes is contingent with what a person is, which is directly influenced by genetics, environment, and sociability (perhaps far more).



Keeping this in mind, it seems kind of impossible to judge someone at all, simply because our lives are largely shaped by factors outside of our control.

A-GAME
06-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Heaven is in your heart. Not some magical place in the sky.

mistercollie
06-27-2012, 12:02 AM
Keeping this in mind, it seems kind of impossible to judge someone at all, simply because our lives are largely shaped by factors outside of our control.I would argue this is a necessary truth in this world. Unfortunately, our modern day judicial system is still bent on judging people, not rehabilitating them. It is very possible to perform fMRI studies on criminals and see where adjustments can be made; "fine tuning" the neurophysiology of a human.

I know with rapists, for instance, they've incorporated new rehabilitating programs which are aimed at blocking certain neural pathways from functioning (blocking the hormones responsible for sexual arousal altogether) and re-training their mind to develop new pathways.

The best way I heard a person put it is that certain neural pathways, which were once nothing more than mere "footpaths", have turned into mega, 10-lane highways, and they soak up a lot of the brain's traffic. The objective is to reform the brain (which is possible due to its plasticity) so that these mega highways turn into one or two lanes (or perhaps the original "footpaths").

A-GAME
06-27-2012, 12:19 AM
Keeping this in mind, it seems kind of impossible to judge someone at all, simply because our lives are largely shaped by factors outside of our control.


Exactly right.

shockofgod
06-27-2012, 01:03 AM
If he repented....yes:)

wisdommaster1
06-27-2012, 05:56 AM
impossible to say in my opinion. If he truly repented and turned his life over to God/Jesus then yes, but only God would know if he truly did that or not. Points to one of my favorite quotes "Going to church doesn't make you a christian, anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car."

VAPlowhorse
06-27-2012, 06:01 AM
Pretty sure he is. It is not like he did anything bad, such as fail to believe in ancient middle eastern mythology.

000350
06-27-2012, 06:26 AM
How convenient. Live like a heathen and still being able to go to heaven. What an awesome religion!

Meatros
06-27-2012, 06:35 AM
When it comes to serial killers, I'm cynical. I'm not an expert on Dahlmer, but I do recall reading that after landing in prison his father sent him material and he then blamed his killings on his atheism and belief in evolution. To me that seems to fit too much into the narrative of fundamentalism and it strikes me as an insincere attempt to convince others that he had changed (similar to Berkowitz). Then again, as I said, I only read a few things on him so I could be totally off base. I think that some of these convicts believe that 'converting' is a useful means of convincing parole boards, judges, etc that they have truly changed and are different people.

I don't think such conversions are that genuine. Dahlmer may have been a Christian, he may have been an atheist, whatever he was at the time of death, I do not think that he had changed from the monster he was.

Harbinger
06-27-2012, 06:43 AM
I think a lot of people have a huge misconception about sin. You could kill a billion people all in horrible unimaginable ways and god wouldn't pissed about a billion deaths, he'd be pissed that you broke the commandment 'thou shalt not kill'. When you ask for fogivness, it's not for killing a billion people, it,s for breaking God's law.

anonymousceleb
06-27-2012, 06:44 AM
According to the bible, if you're a Christian you are born again, by definition. Jesus defined all Christians (before the term "Christian" had even been coined) as people who had been born again in spirit. Now of course there are a lot of crazies under the Christian umbrella, and the outspoken crazies are more often heard using the term "born again" than their more down-to-earth brothers and sisters, but if you don't believe that being born again is a requirement of Christianity, then I have to assume that you either haven't actually read the gospels, or you don't take them seriously.

Yeah, I'm using it in the way that people understand it. I think it's preferable to calling that type of Christian an Evangelical, because that's even less accurate of a differentiation. I don't know why you felt you had to call me on this.


I think a lot of people have a huge misconception about sin. You could kill a billion people all in horrible unimaginable ways and god wouldn't pissed about a billion deaths, he'd be pissed that you broke the commandment 'thou shalt not kill'. When you ask for fogivness, it's not for killing a billion people, it,s for breaking God's law.

Ass-backwards, brah. You trolling?

Meatros
06-27-2012, 07:04 AM
I think a lot of people have a huge misconception about sin. You could kill a billion people all in horrible unimaginable ways and god wouldn't pissed about a billion deaths, he'd be pissed that you broke the commandment 'thou shalt not kill'. When you ask for fogivness, it's not for killing a billion people, it,s for breaking God's law.

It's not the murder, per say, but the lack of permission.

swimmer32
06-27-2012, 07:42 AM
We have absolutely no way of knowing. Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is actually a Christian. I have a hard time believing that someone like Dahmer could completely change their heart, but I suppose it's possible.