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View Full Version : Why is no one talking about U.S. debt anymore?



STEELxBALLS
06-26-2012, 06:19 AM
Why is the media acting like the U.S. debt no longer exists? Not only does it still exist, but it is getting worse MUCH worse.

PLZGO
06-26-2012, 06:39 AM
because the us can get muuuuuuuch deeper into debt and still be able to borrow. it's not really a pressing concern for most major media outlets because it's not "sexy" and breaking like issues like the SCOTUS decisions, the F&F coverup, or most of the bull**** election cycle stuff we're putting up with

BeefyMcNasty
06-26-2012, 07:35 AM
New season of American Idol is on? Or is it 16 and Pregnant?


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/341/i-dunno-lol_1_.jpg

ZenBowman
06-26-2012, 07:39 AM
LOL, what media do you watch? Faux News?

Any relevant media station is constantly obsessing over debt.

Pakman52
06-26-2012, 08:28 AM
Because gay marriage and war on Christmas.

thorton
06-26-2012, 08:37 AM
Because as we have mentioned numerous times over the years the Debt level does not matter as long as it can be financed and it can be. They stopped talking about it because really, in reality, it doesn't matter right now. It's like obsession over whether a guy with a yearly income of 400 000 can finance his monthly 5000 car payment.

Rhythm_of_Life
06-26-2012, 08:39 AM
Election year....


Because as we have mentioned numerous times over the years the Debt level does not matter as long as it can be financed and it can be. They stopped talking about it because really, in reality, it doesn't matter right now. It's like obsession over whether a guy with a yearly income of 400 000 can finance his monthly 5000 car payment.

earning that much and only spending so little would not relate to being in debt.... your comparison would leave you in the black...

thorton
06-26-2012, 08:46 AM
Debt is a stock. It doesn't change except through the deficit. My income could be 400 000 with a car worth 1.2 million. My debt is 3 times my income but if my monthly payments are only 5k then it really doesn't matter. Even if I keep adding to my debt if my financing never really hurts me it doesn't matter. If my income grows more then the cost to finance my debt it doesn't matter.

Example

Year 1 Income 400 000
Debt 1.2 million
Monthly finance charge 5000

Year 2 Income 420 000
Debt 1.4 million
Monthly finance charge 5500

etc etc It doesn't matter what you spend and borrow it only matters whether you can finance it.

I


Election year....



earning that much and only spending so little would not relate to being in debt.... your comparison would leave you in the black...

Tekkendo
06-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Debt is a stock. It doesn't change except through the deficit. My income could be 400 000 with a car worth 1.2 million. My debt is 3 times my income but if my monthly payments are only 5k then it really doesn't matter. Even if I keep adding to my debt if my financing never really hurts me it doesn't matter. If my income grows more then the cost to finance my debt it doesn't matter.

Example

Year 1 Income 400 000
Debt 1.2 million
Monthly finance charge 5000

Year 2 Income 420 000
Debt 1.4 million
Monthly finance charge 5500

etc etc It doesn't matter what you spend and borrow it only matters whether you can finance it.

I
http://files.redux.com/images/6f69dd7271ef7177c8dc172a34503721/raw

wow... looks like the lessons from the housing bubble and the European debt crisis have fallen on deaf ears...

jayohthatman
06-26-2012, 02:44 PM
In4 financial collapse

badbart
06-26-2012, 03:23 PM
Debt is a stock. It doesn't change except through the deficit. My income could be 400 000 with a car worth 1.2 million. My debt is 3 times my income but if my monthly payments are only 5k then it really doesn't matter. Even if I keep adding to my debt if my financing never really hurts me it doesn't matter. If my income grows more then the cost to finance my debt it doesn't matter.

Example

Year 1 Income 400 000
Debt 1.2 million
Monthly finance charge 5000

Year 2 Income 420 000
Debt 1.4 million
Monthly finance charge 5500

etc etc It doesn't matter what you spend and borrow it only matters whether you can finance it.

I

Wow this is amazing

Stizzel
06-26-2012, 03:48 PM
Because as we have mentioned numerous times over the years the Debt level does not matter as long as it can be financed and it can be. They stopped talking about it because really, in reality, it doesn't matter right now. It's like obsession over whether a guy with a yearly income of 400 000 can finance his monthly 5000 car payment.

Uh, based on the beginning of your post its more like saying its okay for that guys car payments to be 40k per month because he can still get more credit cards.

Tekkendo
06-26-2012, 03:50 PM
Wow this is amazing
unreal......

Danger_Close
06-26-2012, 04:06 PM
in b4 qe3

Stizzel
06-26-2012, 04:09 PM
unreal......

By unreal you mean "a,sentiment that nearly every mainstream economist would agree with" of course.

AnotherBuckeye
06-26-2012, 05:28 PM
Why is the media acting like the U.S. debt no longer exists? Not only does it still exist, but it is getting worse MUCH worse.

Steps to cope: 1) Put on Obama T-shirt 2) Burry head in sand.

PLZGO
06-26-2012, 06:00 PM
Steps to cope: 1) Put on Obama T-shirt 2) Burry head in sand.
you act as if a republican candidate would get the debt anywhere close to under control. the fact of the matter is that politicians on both sides of the aisle are to blame for this. it starts with campaign finance - all politicians (with maybe three exceptions tops) are owned by the corporations that finance their campaigns. these corporations could not give two ****s about issues that matter to voters, including things like the national debt. they do care about issues like, for instance, increasing spending on israel or protecting farm subsidies - and therefore what voters actually care about is completely ignored

if you don't agree that both parties are to blame you are a partisan shill

MrRIP
06-26-2012, 06:11 PM
The debt isn't the real problem anyways. The deficit is. Stop worrying about the debt. It's never going to be payed off.

It should never be paid off anyways. I believe the last time the debt was paid off (about 200 years or so) it started to create massive inflation. It's a little deeper than that but I'm pretty sure our countries best options are to stay in "debt"

badbart
06-26-2012, 07:09 PM
Whats scary is the future liabilities, if the government made a attempt to start to trim the deficit and future deficits things would be much better.

Tekkendo
06-26-2012, 07:46 PM
By unreal you mean "a,sentiment that nearly every mainstream economist would agree with" of course.
You mean the 'mainstream economists' who didn't see the housing bubble, the global financial crisis, the PIIGS disaster coming?


http://www.omgif.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lololololol.gif



Did someone predict the crisis before it happened? ... If the answer is 'no,' I don't want to hear what the person says,” says Taleb, author of "The Black Swan," a book on risk and probability theory.

Read more: 'Black Swan' Author Taleb: Don’t Listen to Geithner and Krugman

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Black-Swan-Author-Taleb-Geithner/2010/10/01/id/372205

Tekkendo
06-26-2012, 07:58 PM
We have a $12 trillion economy that is hardly growing. We have a $15 trillion debt that is growing by over $1 trillion a year! What's there to worry about?


http://i.imgur.com/Sauhe.gif

Stizzel
06-26-2012, 08:58 PM
You mean the 'mainstream economists' who didn't see the housing bubble, the global financial crisis, the PIIGS disaster coming?


http://www.omgif.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lololololol.gif



http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Black-Swan-Author-Taleb-Geithner/2010/10/01/id/372205

Yep. This is why every 22 year old econ major on this board is a koolaid chugging keynesian. They are force fed this drivel for years, then go off into the world to become talking heads on MSNBC.

Its okay to rack up debt for spending as long as we can keep borrowing more guys. Whats wrong wiff dat?

nutsy54
06-26-2012, 10:43 PM
Any relevant media station is constantly obsessing over debt.
Provide some links... :cool:

nutsy54
06-26-2012, 10:51 PM
Because as we have mentioned numerous times over the years the Debt level does not matter as long as it can be financed and it can be. They stopped talking about it because really, in reality, it doesn't matter right now. It's like obsession over whether a guy with a yearly income of 400 000 can finance his monthly 5000 car payment.
Why did you use numbers that have no relative bearing on the current US situation?

How would it "not matter" that your debt is six times your annual income? (So in your $400k example, his total debt is $2.4 Million)

How would it "not matter" to know that you currently spend 8% of your income just to cover interest payments... and that your plan is to explode those interest payments to 19% of your income within a decade?

MiKey4
06-26-2012, 10:54 PM
because the us can get muuuuuuuch deeper into debt and still be able to borrow. Didn't the senate nearly block an increase last year? so that's one problem which has already occurred, then didn't the USA's credit rating get downgraded? When stuff like that happens, it turns a "yeah we have a load of debt but can finance it" situation into one more like "oh god how will we survive paying 10% interest"



Anyway can someone post GOOD sources that say the debt is more than the US's GDP? Not news articles from journalists making guesses, but actual government accounts?

nutsy54
06-26-2012, 11:07 PM
Anyway can someone post GOOD sources that say the debt is more than the US's GDP? Not news articles from journalists making guesses, but actual government accounts?
Federal debt as of 25 June 2012: $15,782,570,144,098
http://treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

US GDP, based on 1st Qtr 2012: $15,454,000,000,000
http://bea.gov/national/xls/gdplev.xls
Linked from: http://bea.gov/national/index.htm

ReclusiveSoldat
06-27-2012, 12:59 AM
I'm personally more distasteful of the Neo-Keynesian school with guys like Mankiw

mrdiets
06-27-2012, 01:16 AM
Debt interest payments currently around $300 billion a year and climbing. This is with historical low interest rates. Four more years of trillion dollar deficits and debt interest payments will rival our military budget. 25 to 30 percent of our federal budget wasted away. It's simply unsustainable without massive inflation.

Take it from this guy. Debt is bad.


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006

ScienceBro
06-27-2012, 01:41 AM
The media are still talking about the debt when it is part of the political discussion. Right now however, there are bigger news stories to cover (not implying they are actually more important than the debt or the deficit). With Supreme Court decisions being handed down this week, Holder's contempt of Congress vote on Thursday, Congress' student interest rate vote coming up, Romney's VP pick incoming, all interspersed in Presidential election and a massive debt crisis in Europe, it is not surprising to see this issue be put on the back burner for the time being. Don't fret OP, the debt/deficit will be front and center immediately after the election as we get treated to another amazing rendition of Washington gridlock over a so-called grand bargain.

MiKey4
06-27-2012, 02:05 AM
15 trillion at 2.7% is a pretty good bargain, I couldn't get a mortgage for under 5%. And to add to the dismay I couldn't even print my own money when I want to get out of repayments!

badreligion
06-27-2012, 03:32 AM
Because the media is trying to get Obama re-elected and it won't be easy like in 08 .

mrdiets
06-27-2012, 12:35 PM
Because the media is trying to get Obama re-elected and it won't be easy like in 08 .

Pretty much this.

Obama was with the most conservative congress of all time for the last 2 years, a republican congress which pretty much stopped any new additional spending yet Obama could not find any significant cuts to make. Let's face it, the only answer he has is to raise taxes to close the gap. It's just not going to work.

Rockchalk0420
06-27-2012, 12:51 PM
Usually, nations with a debt to GDP less than 150% are in the "clear" (according to the IMF)

As for why no one is discussing it any more...I don't know, I haven't bothered to really watch news or TV really at all.

DizzySmalls
06-27-2012, 12:59 PM
I don't hear many people my age saying much of anything about the government as most consider it a bit impolite to do so. The few things I do hear about usually relate to environmentalism, gay marriage, abortion, and evolution. In general, I don't see anybody who is even interested enough to follow the issues anymore, let alone take the time to actually look at the numbers involved in the deficit, debt, and budget.

I think my generation simply assumes that there is no real need to be concerned and that the standard of living could never significantly decrease, because it hasn't in the past.

If you take the time to actually look at the numbers though and take a more long term view, it's pretty worrisome. Some of my finance/economics professors are actually starting to get worried.

saloman
06-27-2012, 01:11 PM
My theories:

1. If you plan to pay down debt, you need to increase revenue even if you cut spending, and tax increases are the opposite of what conservatives want to discuss.
2. The last time a bunch of hysteria was created over the debt our credit rating was downgraded.

badbart
06-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Its too difficult for the morons we elected. The country has to cut spending in all areas and the most popular programs are the areas that are projected to increase spending to an unsustainable level. Rolling back all of Bush tax cuts only pays 8% of the deficit.

I remember when Dems use to considered fiscally conservative, hell they balanced the budget 15 years ago. Were have those people gone? Clinton would have never destroyed the country like this. I didn't vote of Clinton but I'd take him any day over the fool we currently have.

Ramoneb87
06-27-2012, 02:10 PM
Our debt is completely irrelevent, and is just a tool they bring out every once in a while to distract people. Look at the history of our country have there ever been a decade where we didn't have debt and icreasing debt. If we weren't concerned about it 50 years ago why now?

badbart
06-27-2012, 02:16 PM
Our debt is completely irrelevent, and is just a tool they bring out every once in a while to distract people. Look at the history of our country have there ever been a decade where we didn't have debt and icreasing debt. If we weren't concerned about it 50 years ago why now?

Our debt has never increased at this rate and our future liabilities have never been so large our national Debt has never been 100% of GDP except for WWII.

http://floodingupeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/us-gross-public-debt-as-a-percentage-of-gdp.png

Gross Federal Debt Debt Held by Public
FY 2013* $17.5 trillion $10.6 trillion
FY 2012* $16.4 trillion $9.7 trillion
FY 2011 $14.8 trillion $8.5 trillion
FY 2010 $13.5 trillion $8.2 trillion
FY 2009 $11.9 trillion $6.8 trillion
FY 2008 $10.0 trillion $5.3 trillion

Tekkendo
06-27-2012, 02:22 PM
I don't hear many people my age saying much of anything about the government as most consider it a bit impolite to do so. The few things I do hear about usually relate to environmentalism, gay marriage, abortion, and evolution. In general, I don't see anybody who is even interested enough to follow the issues anymore, let alone take the time to actually look at the numbers involved in the deficit, debt, and budget.

I think my generation simply assumes that there is no real need to be concerned and that the standard of living could never significantly decrease, because it hasn't in the past.

If you take the time to actually look at the numbers though and take a more long term view, it's pretty worrisome. Some of my finance/economics professors are actually starting to get worried .


I LOL at the last statement. lol

Tekkendo
06-27-2012, 02:25 PM
15 trillion at 2.7% is a pretty good bargain, I couldn't get a mortgage for under 5%. And to add to the dismay I couldn't even print my own money when I want to get out of repayments!
The $15 trillion is growing by over $1 trillion each year. There is no hope of ever paying it down. In fact we have no hope of keeping it at $15 trillions.

And do you know what % of the $15 trillions is due within the next 5 yrs? Debts do come due, unfortunately....

badbart
06-27-2012, 02:26 PM
The $15 trillion is growing by over $1 trillion each year. There is no hope of ever paying it down. In fact we have no hope of keeping it at $15 trillions.

And do you know what % of the $15 trillions is due within the next 5 yrs? Debts do come due, unfortunately....

I like to know what % is in 30ys, 10yr 5yr and 1yr notes? Can you get this info anywhere?

Tekkendo
06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
I like to know what % is in 30ys, 10yr 5yr and 1yr notes? Can you get this info anywhere?

I once read Stockman wrote about it. Cant find the article. You can email him. lol


http://www.minyanville.com/library/search.htm?search=1&contrib_id=283

mrdiets
06-27-2012, 04:52 PM
The $15 trillion is growing by over $1 trillion each year. There is no hope of ever paying it down. In fact we have no hope of keeping it at $15 trillions.

And do you know what % of the $15 trillions is due within the next 5 yrs? Debts do come due, unfortunately....

Exactly and the interest will continue to get larger and larger with none of the principal ever being paid down. Again inflation, well actually massive inflation is really the only way out unless we balance the budget, run a small surplus each year to cut into the principal. Which will never happen because most economist would argue this is bad for the economy, they are actually rooting for massive inflation because all they are concerned about is "growth"...

Grinners
06-27-2012, 04:55 PM
Because as we have mentioned numerous times over the years the Debt level does not matter as long as it can be financed and it can be. They stopped talking about it because really, in reality, it doesn't matter right now. It's like obsession over whether a guy with a yearly income of 400 000 can finance his monthly 5000 car payment.

Er..... It is more like a guy with a 400,000 income and 500,000 in yearly outgoings...

You:

http://bradleyaharmon.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/head_in_sand.jpg

OutdoorX
06-27-2012, 05:17 PM
It's not where we are right now but where we are headed.

http://www.ey.com/Media/vwLUExtFile/Tax_Policy_and_Controversy_Briefing_February_2011/$FILE/ch5.gif

anonymousceleb
06-27-2012, 05:25 PM
Why is the media acting like the U.S. debt no longer exists? Not only does it still exist, but it is getting worse MUCH worse.

Because people are slowly realizing it's meaningless. It's characteristic of a country that isn't based around cheap labor.

persistent2012
06-27-2012, 07:38 PM
Why is the media acting like the U.S. debt no longer exists? Not only does it still exist, but it is getting worse MUCH worse.

social scrutiny delineates individual empowerment

5x10
06-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Because financing still exists