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cowboybiker
06-11-2012, 08:21 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html

A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.


Edit to avoid the commercial

BZ9GAuqauxE

SP1966
06-11-2012, 08:25 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html

A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.

I'm SP1966, and I approve of this message!

bigvin73
06-11-2012, 08:37 PM
I really like this dad and hope they don't charge him but reward him!!!

so-tex
06-11-2012, 08:38 PM
Wow. That happened 90 minutes North of me. :eek: Glad there is one less molester in this world.

so-tex
06-11-2012, 08:40 PM
I really like this dad and hope they don't charge him but reward him!!!I'ts Texas, and happened near Victoria, Texas. I guarantee you the 'killer' won't even be indicted thank God.

cowboybiker
06-11-2012, 08:42 PM
I'ts Texas, and happened near Victoria, Texas. I guarantee you the 'killer' won't even be indicted.Thats good to hear.
I figured as much.

eomrat
06-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Me and the Miss were just talking about this and the fact that the police have no plans to charge the Dad. Her words,


"God, I love Texas".

so-tex
06-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Me and the Miss were just talking about this and the fact that the police have no plans to charge the Dad. Her words,


"God, I love Texas".Music to my ears. This will save the taxpayer money.

so-tex
06-11-2012, 09:10 PM
My bad. I heard it took place In Victoria, Tx., When in fact it happened in Shiner, Tx. Now I am more than sure this won't even go before a grand jury. Even if it does, I will bet my left nut that the father will not be indicted.

SP1966
06-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Me and the Miss were just talking about this and the fact that the police have no plans to charge the Dad. Her words,


"God, I love Texas".

When they finally secede from the union I'll be sneaking across the border!

bigvin73
06-11-2012, 09:18 PM
I'ts Texas, and happened near Victoria, Texas. I guarantee you the 'killer' won't even be indicted thank God.

As the song says
"God bless Texas"

so-tex
06-11-2012, 09:19 PM
When they finally secede from the union I'll be sneaking across the border!And you will be welcome with open arms, only if you are a productive member to society. Damn. Sucks to be on spread. :(

Singe03
06-11-2012, 09:22 PM
When they finally secede from the union I'll be sneaking across the border!

I have no problem sponsoring you for citizenship.

Singe03
06-11-2012, 09:25 PM
And you will be welcome with open arms, only if you are a productive member to society. Damn. Sucks to be on spread. :(

He apparently knows Linux, if so his productivity is guaranteed.

Oceanside
06-11-2012, 11:51 PM
hope he didn't hurt his hand..

pvsampson
06-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Good on him.I would do the same thing.

MichaelCJ
06-12-2012, 01:17 AM
Good on him.I would do the same thing.Effin' A. :mad:

Still wouldn't undo anything done, but dammit, it's the only thing to do (shoot, beat to death, whatever). I have no idea how people live with this kind of thing :(, but I'm glad that - in many cases - they can and do, then go ahead and live good lives.

Anyway. Yeah. A parent doing exactly what he or she should - always good to hear.

TXBuddy
06-12-2012, 08:45 AM
I have 2 daughters and completely understand.


I can't wait to get back to Texas.

HoustonTXMuscle
06-12-2012, 08:53 AM
My bad. I heard it took place In Victoria, Tx., When in fact it happened in Shiner, Tx. Now I am more than sure this won't even go before a grand jury. Even if it does, I will bet my left nut that the father will not be indicted.

Been all over the local channels, headlining most of the news. Don't think you have anything to worry about with that bet. Had it happened in East Texas, betting both ball would be a safe bet.

Dave76
06-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Texas is very good about allowing its citizens to protect home and family. The guy didn't even use a weapon, he just broke out a huge can of whoop ass, which is what any father would do. He's far more likely to receive a medal and parade in his honor rather than seeing the courtroom.

thomashenry
06-12-2012, 10:18 AM
Retributive Justice !----------IMO the guy should run for Congress !

so-tex
06-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Texas is very good about allowing its citizens to protect home and family. The guy didn't even use a weapon, he just broke out a huge can of whoop ass, which is what any father would do. He's far more likely to receive a medal and parade in his honor rather than seeing the courtroom.Or they could make him an honorary member of Texas A&M's 12th man football team. :).


Retributive Justice !----------IMO the guy should run for Congress ! I agree. At the very least, he should run for mayor at Shiner.

HairyScandinavian
06-12-2012, 11:51 AM
Taking care of business, Texas style.

Dave76
06-12-2012, 12:07 PM
Or they could make him an honorary member of Texas A&M's 12th man football team. :)
I was thinking that Parson's Cavalry could lead the parade. Maybe introduce him at Yell Practice. He would be very well received in College Station.

Gary89
06-12-2012, 12:09 PM
I fully support this method of child molestation cessation therapy.

latebloomingmom
06-12-2012, 12:43 PM
As the song says
"God bless Texas"indeed...:)

so-tex
06-12-2012, 05:58 PM
SHINER — A father beat to death with his hands a man who tried molesting his 4-year-old daughter after the little girl was heard screaming on the family's rural Texas ranch, authorities said Monday.

Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon said the father, whose name has not been released, is unlikely to be arrested for Saturday's killing and that no evidence so far has led investigators to doubt his story.

"There doesn't appear to be any reason other than what he told us," Harmon said.

Harmon said the victim was a 47-year-old man from Gonazles with no apparent prior criminal history. His name continued to be withheld Monday because authorities still hadn't tracked down any of his family.

The victim was an "acquaintance" of the father who had come to help care for some horses, Harmon said. He did not know how long the two men may have known each other. The girl was taken to a hospital to be examined and has since been released, Harmon said.

The father called police late Saturday afternoon and told them he attacked a man caught trying to sexually assault his daughter, Harmon said. The alleged attack happened near a barn where some horses were being kept.

"In the course of trying to get her away from him, and protect her, he struck the subject several times in the head and the subject died," Harmon said.

Harmon said a grand jury will decide what, if any, charges the father will face.

The victim's body was sent to the Travis County medical examiner for an autopsy

From the Corpus Christi Caller Times. Looks like this case will go before a grand jury after all. I still say they will let the father walk on this one.

Lionology
06-12-2012, 05:59 PM
I approve of this message.

V-240
06-12-2012, 06:31 PM
And his name...

Chuck Norris.

not srs...

..or maybe srs.

Score 1 point for the good guys.

V-240
06-13-2012, 02:03 PM
"I don't like repeat offenders. I like DEAD offenders."

bodyhard
06-13-2012, 02:37 PM
I don't believe in violence and what that guy did was wrong. We are all innocent till proven guilty, there is always two sides of the story.

We are not God and only God should determine what a mans faith is going to be, what that man did was wrong, violence only begets violence.

He killed a man so he himself should go to jail for murder violence is never the answer no matter what.

Oceanside
06-13-2012, 02:38 PM
should have made a citizens arrest and notified authoritys !

Nikonguy
06-13-2012, 02:44 PM
I don't believe in violence and what that guy did was wrong. We are all innocent till proven guilty, there is always two sides of the story.

We are not God and only God should determine what a mans faith is going to be, what that man did was wrong, violence only begets violence.

He killed a man so he himself should go to jail for murder violence is never the answer no matter what.Who are you and what did you do with BH?

mtpockets
06-13-2012, 02:49 PM
Perfect, He took out the trash. Give him a medal.

JordanClark9
06-13-2012, 02:50 PM
At least the justice system has taken a turn in the positive direction here. The guy had it coming.

BillReilly
06-14-2012, 08:54 AM
At least the justice system has taken a turn in the positive direction here. The guy had it coming.

I would not get too far out on that limb. The lunatics are never going to quit. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/12/texas-district-attorney-to-present-beating-death-case-to-grand-jury-after-probe/) They despise the fact a person can defend himself and his own. That goes against their creed.

Assuming the facts are as presented, this is justifiable homicide. He killed the victim and he did so in the act of preventing a crime against a child. Unless there's evidence to contradict his version, that's the most likely conclusion. But, you can be sure the local ACLU will be badgering the DA to go after the guy. Obama will have the fed investigate a hate crime, since the victim is Mexican.

HairyScandinavian
06-14-2012, 09:02 AM
I would not get too far out on that limb. The lunatics are never going to quit. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/12/texas-district-attorney-to-present-beating-death-case-to-grand-jury-after-probe/) They despise the fact a person can defend himself and his own. That goes against their creed.

Assuming the facts are as presented, this is justifiable homicide. He killed the victim and he did so in the act of preventing a crime against a child. Unless there's evidence to contradict his version, that's the most likely conclusion. But, you can be sure the local ACLU will be badgering the DA to go after the guy. Obama will have the fed investigate a hate crime, since the victim is Mexican.

I can see the ACLU arguing that it's not defense of the 3rd person because the act would have obviously stopped when dude entered the room, that's how they roll. Hopefully the grand jury will do their job well and clear the dude so there's no headaches down the line.

pratherian
06-14-2012, 10:17 AM
What do you call one dead child molester, caught in the act, and beaten to death, by a screaming FOUR YEAR OLD little girls dad?
























A good start, and good riddence.

theKurp
06-14-2012, 10:58 AM
So no one is thinking about what this 4-year girl is dealing with after having watched her father beat a man to death?

eomrat
06-14-2012, 10:59 AM
So no one is thinking about what this 4-year girl is dealing with after having watched her father beat a man to death?


No. Why?

Dave76
06-14-2012, 11:00 AM
Obama will have the fed investigate a hate crime, since the victim is Mexican.
Texas is a very red state. Obama can't win this state and he knows it. Some of us are convinced that the Obama administration does things to us out of spite. Things they wouldn't even consider if we were a swing state.

This is one time I'd like to see the Obama administration meddle with Texas. I can just see it now, "If I had a son and he was a child molester, he'd be just like...". LOL, he'd never say that, of course. Unfortunately, I think Obama is an astute enough politician to know better than to defend the rights of a dead child molester, regardless of ethnic origin.

thomashenry
06-14-2012, 11:06 AM
I don't believe in violence and what that guy did was wrong. We are all innocent till proven guilty, there is always two sides of the story.

We are not God and only God should determine what a mans faith is going to be, what that man did was wrong, violence only begets violence.

He killed a man so he himself should go to jail for murder violence is never the answer no matter what. I am assuming your being facitious my friend, I certainly Believe in God also, however I also know of few names that may strike you as odd seeing as they were killers as well, Moses, Joshua, David, Paul ! again I am assuming your being facitious

HairyScandinavian
06-14-2012, 11:07 AM
So no one is thinking about what this 4-year girl is dealing with after having watched her father beat a man to death?

Daddy came to her rescue, she will always think he's the greatest.

hammerfelt
06-14-2012, 03:28 PM
We make killer beer and kill child molesters. Welcome to Shiner, Texas

so-tex
06-14-2012, 03:42 PM
We make killer beer and kill child molesters. Welcome to Shiner, TexasHell yeah!

Kraken
06-14-2012, 03:53 PM
Me and the Miss were just talking about this and the fact that the police have no plans to charge the Dad. Her words,


"God, I love Texas".

We said the same exact thing. No Texas Jury would charge him with anything either. They MIGHT get a jury to agree with some charges in a particular city, but I won't mention that city name. lol

V-240
06-14-2012, 04:24 PM
I think Barry-O is gonna steer clear of this one! "Do not want."

V-240
06-14-2012, 04:31 PM
For stressmonkey: ---.. ----- .----. ... .... . .- .-. - ... ..- -.-. -.- ...

Haha..

.- ... -.. ..-.

chodan9
06-14-2012, 05:40 PM
it would be a waste of tax payer money to charge him.
aside from the fact that he was obviously provoked, if it came down to it he could claim temporary insanity and no one would doubt that. but I don't think it will get that far.

V-240
06-14-2012, 05:42 PM
it would be a waste of tax payer money to charge him.
aside from the fact that he was obviously provoked, if it came down to it he could claim temporary insanity and no one would doubt that. but I don't think it will get that far.

Sure, it's not like it was pre-meditated. But they might try for 3rd degree manslaughter or some crap.

so-tex
06-14-2012, 05:53 PM
Sure, it's not like it was pre-meditated. But they might try for 3rd degree manslaughter or some crap.Sorry. Not gonna happen. The man will skate on this one.

gray73
06-14-2012, 05:58 PM
So no one is thinking about what this 4-year girl is dealing with after having watched her father beat a man to death?
I'm sure that is something the father regrets. I know I would.
I would never regret killing the bastard, but I would regret doing it in front of my daughter. He reacted like any other good Dad would have done. Defended his child.

paolo59
06-14-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm sure that is something the father regrets. I know I would.
I would never regret killing the bastard, but I would regret doing it in front of my daughter. He reacted like any other good Dad would have done. Defended his child.

I'm sure the gentleman is quite horrified by the whole situation after the fact. Nobody in their right mind would ever want to be in a situation where they ended up killing someone. I'm sure his intention was far from that. I believe I read in news reports that he was upset and remorseful of the outcome. But one can hardly blame the poor fellow under the circumstances. I don't imagine he was exactly in his 'right mind' at that moment. It's unfortunate that there are scum bags that would molest children, and it's doubly unfortunate for the 'scum bag' that the father of a young victim caught him in the act.

The man doesn't deserve a medal. But it's completely understandable what took place! By the way, I don't imagine that he would expect or want one either.

theKurp
06-15-2012, 04:45 AM
I'm sure that is something the father regrets. I know I would.
I would never regret killing the bastard, but I would regret doing it in front of my daughter. He reacted like any other good Dad would have done. Defended his child.


I'm sure the gentleman is quite horrified by the whole situation after the fact. Nobody in their right mind would ever want to be in a situation where they ended up killing someone. I'm sure his intention was far from that. I believe I read in news reports that he was upset and remorseful of the outcome. But one can hardly blame the poor fellow under the circumstances. I don't imagine he was exactly in his 'right mind' at that moment. It's unfortunate that there are scum bags that would molest children, and it's doubly unfortunate for the 'scum bag' that the father of a young victim caught him in the act.

The man doesn't deserve a medal. But it's completely understandable what took place! By the way, I don't imagine that he would expect or want one either.

Precisely. The father snapped, and understandably so. And while the perpetrator may have deserved the outcome, the father did his daughter no service by killing the man in front of her. The psychological trauma of an attempted molestation is now compounded exponentially by witnessing a violent killing. This girl may never fully recover without intense psychiatric help.

It's disturbing, but not surprising, that many people's first and only thought is to celebrate the killing of the perpetrator without so much as acknowledging the 4-year old victim.

acrawlingchaos
06-15-2012, 04:58 AM
Has any evidence been released that the individual in question actually committed a crime? There seems to be little evidence that the little girl was a victim, other "than the fathers word". If all it takes is a pinky swear that "he deserved it", it's time to be a bit concerned.


I guess we can just assume that this dead man is guilty.. right?

HairyScandinavian
06-15-2012, 05:26 AM
I guess we can just assume that this dead man is guilty.. right?

Unfortunately that's the way it works. I've always heard "Dead guys don't talk."

trev71
06-15-2012, 06:20 AM
So no one is thinking about what this 4-year girl is dealing with after having watched her father beat a man to death?

Victim's rights... in our Feel Good Society? she shouldn't have been where she was, it's her fault.

Criminal's rights... nuff said... they are the ones needing our sympathy and tax dollars... and an opportunity to come out and do their crime again and again.

It isn't like sexual predators are repeat offenders by any means...

.. ok I need a dam for my sarcasm flood here ..

theKurp
06-15-2012, 06:40 AM
Victim's rights... in our Feel Good Society? she shouldn't have been where she was, it's her fault.

Criminal's rights... nuff said... they are the ones needing our sympathy and tax dollars... and an opportunity to come out and do their crime again and again.

It isn't like sexual predators are repeat offenders by any means...

.. ok I need a dam for my sarcasm flood here ..

Uhmm, okay. I guess for now I'll just assume you're suffering from concussion-like symptoms. Or stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

Dave76
06-15-2012, 07:08 AM
Has any evidence been released that the individual in question actually committed a crime? There seems to be little evidence that the little girl was a victim, other "than the fathers word". If all it takes is a pinky swear that "he deserved it", it's time to be a bit concerned.


I guess we can just assume that this dead man is guilty.. right?
You can rest assured that we take homicides very seriously. We're also pretty strict about that "innocent until proven guilty" thing, which explains why the father is sitting at home instead of a jail cell.

Pinky swears don't mean a whole lot in the Texas judicial system, which helps explain why this may go to the grand jury. The facts will be reviewed and, if the father's story holds up, he'll be no billed. If there are holes in the story, he may be charged, and rightfully so. Sure, it's possible that an innocent man was murdered and the father used his daughter to set him up. So far, there is nothing that indicates a problem with the father's story, at least nothing has been released to the public that would indicate a problem.

trev71
06-15-2012, 07:15 AM
Uhmm, okay. I guess for now I'll just assume you're suffering from concussion-like symptoms. Or stated differently, what in the hell are you talking about?

I am agreeing with you, in a sarcastic fashion.

We always, pay attention to, and worry about, the criminal and his or her feelings/needs/reasons for commit crimes... etc..

Victims are more often than not, considered fine and fully recovered, after a cop shows up to the scene.

So, yes, what about the the 4 year old who may suffer from this for years to come..?? fantastic question..

-- Side note here, watching these folks in Texas talk about how they agree with the outcome, is jawdropping. I lived in CT for 40 years, and you would not hear anything like that on the news.. those types of people are not what that state is about. You would hear about why the crime took place, the cause and reasons for the criminal to do it (his parents, the fact he didn't get a trophy for last place, they ranked him in school, he didn't have an iPad growing up... etc..)... it's freaking mind blowing.

-- Side side note, glad the dude is dead. But perhaps that was too easy.

litljay
06-15-2012, 07:18 AM
As the father of a 4 year old little girl, I applaud this father. I can't even imagine what I would have done had I been in his shoes.

Kraken
06-15-2012, 07:39 AM
I am agreeing with you, in a sarcastic fashion.

We always, pay attention to, and worry about, the criminal and his or her feelings/needs/reasons for commit crimes... etc..

Victims are more often than not, considered fine and fully recovered, after a cop shows up to the scene.

So, yes, what about the the 4 year old who may suffer from this for years to come..?? fantastic question..

-- Side note here, watching these folks in Texas talk about how they agree with the outcome, is jawdropping. I lived in CT for 40 years, and you would not hear anything like that on the news.. those types of people are not what that state is about. You would hear about why the crime took place, the cause and reasons for the criminal to do it (his parents, the fact he didn't get a trophy for last place, they ranked him in school, he didn't have an iPad growing up... etc..)... it's freaking mind blowing.

-- Side side note, glad the dude is dead. But perhaps that was too easy.

Well, there is at least one reason we know for sure why they didn't mention anything about the "victim"...tell me why we are calling him that, btw? Anyway, he was most likely an immigrant from Mexico, possibly even illegal. That's a majority of ranch hands down here. They couldn't locate his family either. So, they really wouldn't be able to say what his upbringing was like anyway.

acrawlingchaos
06-15-2012, 07:43 AM
You can rest assured that we take homicides very seriously. We're also pretty strict about that "innocent until proven guilty" thing, which explains why the father is sitting at home instead of a jail cell.

Pinky swears don't mean a whole lot in the Texas judicial system, which helps explain why this may go to the grand jury. The facts will be reviewed and, if the father's story holds up, he'll be no billed. If there are holes in the story, he may be charged, and rightfully so. Sure, it's possible that an innocent man was murdered and the father used his daughter to set him up. So far, there is nothing that indicates a problem with the father's story, at least nothing has been released to the public that would indicate a problem.Looks like the dead man isn't getting the bolded treatment from what I saw, and my pointed is more aimed at those praising the father (not the judicial system itself).

Dave76
06-15-2012, 08:07 AM
Looks like the dead man isn't getting the bolded treatment from what I saw, and my pointed is more aimed at those praising the father (not the judicial system itself).
People are praising a father's right to protect a child.

I guarantee you that if a single shred of evidence indicates that the father used his innocent daughter as an excuse to murder this guy, we'll turn on him in a heartbeat. Hanging will be too good for him.

Brackneyc
06-15-2012, 08:11 AM
Looks like the dead man isn't getting the bolded treatment from what I saw, and my pointed is more aimed at those praising the father (not the judicial system itself).


If I or my family is about to be harmed, do I need to ensure that I have sufficient evidence to support my actions before I take action?

Since I maintain that most people have no desire to kill another human (regardless their legal status in the country), I will give the man the benefit of the doubt. If it is proven that he just killed this guy for no apparent reason, I will be the first in line to have him put up for the rest of is life.

Furthermore, he used his hands to do this, and not a gun or knife. Can you imagine having to live with the fact that your "hands" took another persons life.

trev71
06-15-2012, 08:13 AM
Well, there is at least one reason we know for sure why they didn't mention anything about the "victim"...tell me why we are calling him that, btw? Anyway, he was most likely an immigrant from Mexico, possibly even illegal. That's a majority of ranch hands down here. They couldn't locate his family either. So, they really wouldn't be able to say what his upbringing was like anyway.

I think you guys may be reading me in a way I was not intending it to be read.

-- The girl, is the victim...
-- The dead guy, who I have no sympathy at all for, is the criminal
-- If I was the father, I don't know if I could NOT do what he did... really... I have a 9 year old daughter 12 year old son.. I think I would lose control

Living in different areas of our fine country, you get used to seeing and hearing different angles from the news and other media outlets.

For instance, the new cast that was shown here in this thread, as awesome as I thought it was, would not have been played if this happened in New England. It would have been much more 'politically correct', if you will, and not conservatively political. The topic would have been covered, and I would take an educated guess (based on living here for 40 years), the Father would be behind bars, arrested, charged with murder and the State Police would be loud and proud about taking the law into your own hands, and how wrong it is, and how it won't be allowed and how they will push to prosecute.

I spent 8 years as a correctional officer in the state of CT. What we offer our criminals, to list a few items:
- Pay for going to school
- College courses
- a TV, cable
- Gyms, complete with electronic score boards
- Counseling.. Counseling.. Counseling..
- Lawsuit opportunities, paid for by the state, for anything, up to and including smooth peanut butter being delivered instead of the crunchy that was ordered
- Full medical, lifetime medical if your injured in jail, or for that matter if you get tested for something and your found with it (no matter when or where you got it)
- Plenty of meal choices
- Tons of religious classes/meetings etc...
- All paid for by our fine tax system... roughly

I am unsure as to what we offer our victims:
- Counceling options !?
- Peace of mind it won't happen again?
- Either way, it is't much... as we try to get the inmates out on the street asap.. it's expensive to house em ya know..

So, when I see a news outlet allowing people to say " he got what he deserved " I am jaw dropped... it has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing.. it's freaking shocking to see and hear people say that... on TV.. in public... it's amazing... awesome.

Just saying, you have to be from where I am from, probably, to understand how sarcastic I was being, and it was not meant toward anyone here by any means.. more toward the whole 'system'.

Ciao!

Happy Friday.

Hope that guy gets to spend time with his girl on Father's day.

paolo59
06-15-2012, 08:30 AM
I think you guys may be reading me in a way I was not intending it to be read.

-- The girl, is the victim...
-- The dead guy, who I have no sympathy at all for, is the criminal
-- If I was the father, I don't know if I could NOT do what he did... really... I have a 9 year old daughter 12 year old son.. I think I would lose control

Living in different areas of our fine country, you get used to seeing and hearing different angles from the news and other media outlets.

For instance, the new cast that was shown here in this thread, as awesome as I thought it was, would not have been played if this happened in New England. It would have been much more 'politically correct', if you will, and not conservatively political. The topic would have been covered, and I would take an educated guess (based on living here for 40 years), the Father would be behind bars, arrested, charged with murder and the State Police would be loud and proud about taking the law into your own hands, and how wrong it is, and how it won't be allowed and how they will push to prosecute.

I spent 8 years as a correctional officer in the state of CT. What we offer our criminals, to list a few items:
- Pay for going to school
- College courses
- a TV, cable
- Gyms, complete with electronic score boards
- Counseling.. Counseling.. Counseling..
- Lawsuit opportunities, paid for by the state, for anything, up to and including smooth peanut butter being delivered instead of the crunchy that was ordered
- Full medical, lifetime medical if your injured in jail, or for that matter if you get tested for something and your found with it (no matter when or where you got it)
- Plenty of meal choices
- Tons of religious classes/meetings etc...
- All paid for by our fine tax system... roughly

I am unsure as to what we offer our victims:
- Counceling options !?
- Peace of mind it won't happen again?
- Either way, it is't much... as we try to get the inmates out on the street asap.. it's expensive to house em ya know..

So, when I see a news outlet allowing people to say " he got what he deserved " I am jaw dropped... it has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing.. it's freaking shocking to see and hear people say that... on TV.. in public... it's amazing... awesome.

Just saying, you have to be from where I am from, probably, to understand how sarcastic I was being, and it was not meant toward anyone here by any means.. more toward the whole 'system'.

Ciao!

Happy Friday.

Hope that guy gets to spend time with his girl on Father's day.


LOL I raised my eyebrows a bit at the first read of your earlier post. Then I read it again and completely understood where you were coming from. Generally speaking, if you take the time, and think, you can figure out what most folks are saying! Ha ha

I do believe a lot of the responses in this thread are 'gut felt,' initial reaction sort of things. We're not a 'blood-thirsty lot' down here in Texas. LOL We just get riled up a bit sometimes. :)

theKurp
06-15-2012, 08:32 AM
I am agreeing with you, in a sarcastic fashion.

We always, pay attention to, and worry about, the criminal and his or her feelings/needs/reasons for commit crimes... etc..

Victims are more often than not, considered fine and fully recovered, after a cop shows up to the scene.

So, yes, what about the the 4 year old who may suffer from this for years to come..?? fantastic question..

-- Side note here, watching these folks in Texas talk about how they agree with the outcome, is jawdropping. I lived in CT for 40 years, and you would not hear anything like that on the news.. those types of people are not what that state is about. You would hear about why the crime took place, the cause and reasons for the criminal to do it (his parents, the fact he didn't get a trophy for last place, they ranked him in school, he didn't have an iPad growing up... etc..)... it's freaking mind blowing.

-- Side side note, glad the dude is dead. But perhaps that was too easy.

Ah, gotcha. Then perhaps it is I suffering from post-concussion syndrome for not picking up on the gist of your message. :)

theKurp
06-15-2012, 08:42 AM
Since I maintain that most people have no desire to kill another human (regardless their legal status in the country), I will give the man the benefit of the doubt.

Or, the stomach to watch a human beaten to death - especially at the age of 4. Let's be clear here. If the story is accurate, then there are two victims: the daughter and the father. Who knows how either will be affected, and to what degree, for the rest of their lives. Again, if the story is true, I have no sympathy for the man killed. But I think the psychological aftermath would be less dramatic and severe for both victims had the father stopped the attempted crime without killing the perpetrator.

Brackneyc
06-15-2012, 08:58 AM
Or, the stomach to watch a human beaten to death - especially at the age of 4. Let's be clear here. If the story is accurate, then there are two victims: the daughter and the father. Who knows how either will be affected, and to what degree, for the rest of their lives. Again, if the story is true, I have no sympathy for the man killed. But I think the psychological aftermath would be less dramatic and severe for both victims had the father stopped the attempted crime without killing the perpetrator.


In this case, we can only hope that the daughter won't be affected (due to her age) to the point of not being able to function. At 4 years old, I suspect there is a better chance than if she were 12. The father (if he is a "regular guy") may or may not question his own actions as time goes on, but either way, if we accept the story at face value, he will be ok imo.

For the father, this may only be the beginning. His bigger issue may end up being that an unsympathetic grand jury may not agree with his actions. Right or wrong in our eyes, the jury will have the final say.

Kraken
06-15-2012, 09:42 AM
I think you guys may be reading me in a way I was not intending it to be read.

-- The girl, is the victim...
-- The dead guy, who I have no sympathy at all for, is the criminal
-- If I was the father, I don't know if I could NOT do what he did... really... I have a 9 year old daughter 12 year old son.. I think I would lose control



Oh, you misunderstood me. The article was referring to the dead guy as the victim. That's why I asked the question "Why are we supposed to call the dead guy a victim?"

trev71
06-15-2012, 10:10 AM
Oh, you misunderstood me. The article was referring to the dead guy as the victim. That's why I asked the question "Why are we supposed to call the dead guy a victim?"

Meh, not a big deal either way really..

We get overly touchy sometimes here don't we.. ? heh.

acrawlingchaos
06-15-2012, 10:35 AM
People are praising a father's right to protect a child. I guarantee you that if a single shred of evidence indicates that the father used his innocent daughter as an excuse to murder this guy, we'll turn on him in a heartbeat. Hanging will be too good for him.Many people here have already decided that the alleged perpetrator is guilty without any proven facts. "Turning on him" is mob mentality. The mob praises first and adjusts their direction of aggression AFTER the fact.

Whatever happened to reserving judgment until all the facts are in?


If I or my family is about to be harmed, do I need to ensure that I have sufficient evidence to support my actions before I take action?I am not even arguing this point, not even "kind of". I am not even pointing a finger at the father. My point is about reserving judgment as an outsider until an investigation is completed.


Since I maintain that most people have no desire to kill another human (regardless their legal status in the country), I will give the man the benefit of the doubt. If it is proven that he just killed this guy for no apparent reason, I will be the first in line to have him put up for the rest of is life. Most people who take a life [murder] are not the most forthcoming people about what happened. He could have easily lied about it for some other reason.

He says he didn't murder him, and that seems good enough for the people ITT. Apparently I am the only one that believes that we should hold off on bashing this man until we give the deceased his due process.

HoustonTXMuscle
06-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Haven't gone back and re-readed all of the earlier threads, however, just to be clear, the report in the Houston Chronicle read that "The dad spotted the man on top of the girl behind a barn during an event where several people were grooming and caring for horses about 120 miles west of Houston. The father raced to the scene behind the barn when he suddenly heard his daughter screaming.

He told police he witnessed the 47-year-old man sexually assaulting his daughter, pulled him off, and hit him several times in the head. The man died at the scene, and the girl was taken to a hospital for treatment and evaluation. The father has not been arrested."

mslman71
06-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Oh, you misunderstood me. The article was referring to the dead guy as the victim. That's why I asked the question "Why are we supposed to call the dead guy a victim?"

Victim has come to take moral or judgmental overtones for some reason. One need not be guilty or innocent to be a victim. He needs only to suffer bodily harm from an event, regardless of the hows or whys.

Brackneyc
06-15-2012, 11:38 AM
He says he didn't murder him, and that seems good enough for the people ITT. Apparently I am the only one that believes that we should hold off on bashing this man until we give the deceased his due process.

I blame (partially) the system for this. If they did a better job of putting molesters behind bars and keeping them there, there would be more willingness to find out before assigning guilt.

Kraken
06-15-2012, 11:42 AM
Victim has come to take moral or judgmental overtones for some reason. One need not be guilty or innocent to be a victim. He needs only to suffer bodily harm from an event, regardless of the hows or whys.

You're exactly right. Our court systems have taught us that well. They use the word victim when they want the jury to be sad about it.

In EMT/medic school we had to learn to stop using the word victim too. We had to use the word "patient" instead, to make sure that we weren't making or breaking a case if something went to court.

MiamiSpartan
06-15-2012, 11:43 AM
I really like this dad and hope they don't charge him but reward him!!!

This.

DASHTEK1
06-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Faith restored in Policing.

Even if the father was arrested he would probably get away with it on a "crime of passion" claim

so-tex
06-15-2012, 07:37 PM
Almost a week after news of a father beating a man to death in Shiner made national headlines, the district attorney's office has released the name of the man who was allegedly caught in the act of molesting a 5-year-old child.

Jesus Mora Flores, 47, was working as a horse hand for the Shiner man. Deputies found a permanent resident card on Flores at the scene of the crime, said Sheriff Micah Harmon.

The Sheriff's office is currently in communication with the Mexican Consulate in search of the victim's family members.

At 3:34 p.m. on Saturday, June 9, the Lavaca County 911 emergency service responded to a call for medical assistance for Flores after the father had realized his beatings had gone further than he intended.

Flores suffered several blows to the head and neck area. The autopsy was conducted in Travis County and was assisted by the Texas Rangers. The child was given a physical exam and forensic interview, also conducted by the Texas Rangers.

The child's family members and father have all been very cooperative with the investigation, Harmon said.

"The physical evidence at the scene appeared to substantiate the father's account: When emergency medical personnel arrived, Jesus Mora Flores' pants and underwear were down and the man's genitals were exposed," Harmon said.

Lavaca County District Attorney Heather McMinn said she thinks that the sheriff did the right thing by not arresting the father after the assault.



"At this time, I believe the homicide investigation should be sent to the grand jury," McMinn said. "Sheriff Harmon made the right decision in not arresting the father at the time of the incident. All of the evidence surrounding this homicide will be presented to the grand jury as soon as possible."

Harmon said the father is indeed very remorseful about killing Flores, and that he did not intend to do so.

"This case has been very traumatizing on the child, her father and his entire family," Harmon said. "I'm thankful the investigation is complete and that the District Attorney will be presenting it to the grand jury next week."















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SP1966
06-15-2012, 07:41 PM
I wasn't sure if he was remorseful, but he said it three time right ^^^^ there...

superman713
06-15-2012, 10:37 PM
Hell yeah the sick fuk deserved to be beat to death... Then cut up and fed to the horses. I fell bad that the father had to hurt his hands beating the life out of this sick POS and the state of TEXAS should file suit against the bastards family for pain and suffering caused by his mom not swallowing the night he was conceived...

We dont play here in Texas...

superman713
06-15-2012, 10:38 PM
If I happen to see the father around... Ill buy him a beer!

kenhorse
06-15-2012, 10:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/11/justice/texas-abuser-killed/index.html

A Texas father caught a man sexually assaulting his 4-year-old daughter and punched him in the head repeatedly, killing him, authorities said.


Edit to avoid the commercial

BZ9GAuqauxE
reps for the father

Dave76
06-16-2012, 06:29 AM
Many people here have already decided that the alleged perpetrator is guilty without any proven facts...

Whatever happened to reserving judgment until all the facts are in?

...Apparently I am the only one that believes that we should hold off on bashing this man until we give the deceased his due process.



"The physical evidence at the scene appeared to substantiate the father's account: When emergency medical personnel arrived, Jesus Mora Flores' pants and underwear were down and the man's genitals were exposed," Harmon said.
So, do we have enough facts now? Or should we still be skeptical of the father since it's entirely possible that he stripped the poor man after he killed him?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to understand the thinking process of those from the Northeast. Earlier in this thread, Trev71 from Vermont was "jaw dropped" by the way this was handled by Texas. Apparently, in that part of the country "the Father would be behind bars, arrested, charged with murder and the State Police would be loud and proud about taking the law into your own hands, and how wrong it is, and how it won't be allowed and how they will push to prosecute."

My jaw dropped when I read that. I can't understand that kind of thinking, at all. It is completely foreign to me that anyone could be stripped of a basic right to protect one's family. Protection of family is a basic animal instinct and any father will act on that instinct upon seeing a child being molested.

Perhaps I am guilty of jumping to conclusions and not giving the deceased his due process. That's only because I've lived in Texas for 57 years and I know that homicides are not taken lightly. If the father's story was sketchy, he'd have been arrested on the spot. I didn't have to wait for the second news report to know that additional evidence was available to law enforcement.

For the sake of the father, the girl, and the molester, I wish this had ended differently. I think everyone would prefer that the molester had a chance to stand before a judge with a broken nose, black eye, and maybe a few stitches.

Brackneyc
06-16-2012, 06:34 AM
So, do we have enough facts now? Or should we still be skeptical of the father since it's entirely possible that he stripped the poor man after he killed him?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to understand the thinking process of those from the Northeast. Earlier in this thread, Trev71 from Vermont was "jaw dropped" by the way this was handled by Texas. Apparently, in that part of the country "the Father would be behind bars, arrested, charged with murder and the State Police would be loud and proud about taking the law into your own hands, and how wrong it is, and how it won't be allowed and how they will push to prosecute."

My jaw dropped when I read that. I can't understand that kind of thinking, at all. It is completely foreign to me that anyone could be stripped of a basic right to protect one's family. Protection of family is a basic animal instinct and any father will act on that instinct upon seeing a child being molested.

Perhaps I am guilty of jumping to conclusions and not giving the deceased his due process. That's only because I've lived in Texas for 57 years and I know that homicides are not taken lightly. If the father's story was sketchy, he'd have been arrested on the spot. I didn't have to wait for the second news report to know that additional evidence was available to law enforcement.

For the sake of the father, the girl, and the molester, I wish this had ended differently. I think everyone would prefer that the molester had a chance to stand before a judge with a broken nose, black eye, and maybe a few stitches.


I don't think homicides are taken lightly anywhere.

Dave76
06-16-2012, 06:48 AM
I don't think homicides are taken lightly anywhere.
And Texas is no exception. That was my point.

The thing I'm learning from this thread is that "justifiable" homicide has different meanings around the country.

Brackneyc
06-16-2012, 07:01 AM
And Texas is no exception. That was my point.

The thing I'm learning from this thread is that "justifiable" homicide has different meanings around the country.

Has anyone implied that Texas "does" take homicide lightly?

I do think there is a burden of proof however. The tone of this thread (in part) is 'We don't tolerate that sht here in Texas..."

Dave76
06-16-2012, 07:38 AM
Has anyone implied that Texas "does" take homicide lightly?

I do think there is a burden of proof however. The tone of this thread (in part) is 'We don't tolerate that sht here in Texas..."
The people in the newscast were making "he got what he deserved" statement. Some people here are saying "wait, the dead man is innocent until proven guilty, we need to investigate further", as if Texas authorities hadn't done a thorough job of investigating before deciding not to arrest the father. Yes, I inferred that some believe that Texas didn't take the homicide seriously enough.

Krash23
06-16-2012, 11:34 AM
In CA they will typically go to trial with a case like this, that way if he is found innocent he can never by prosecuted for it again. If the evidence is solid, the case will be over in less than a day.

cowboybiker
06-19-2012, 07:22 PM
No charges filed.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/father-kills-molester-texas-no-charges_n_1610465.html?1340144123&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D171344

pvsampson
06-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Good and just result

acrawlingchaos
06-20-2012, 12:49 AM
So, do we have enough facts now? Or should we still be skeptical of the father since it's entirely possible that he stripped the poor man after he killed him?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to understand the thinking process of those from the Northeast. Earlier in this thread, Trev71 from Vermont was "jaw dropped" by the way this was handled by Texas. Apparently, in that part of the country "the Father would be behind bars, arrested, charged with murder and the State Police would be loud and proud about taking the law into your own hands, and how wrong it is, and how it won't be allowed and how they will push to prosecute."

My jaw dropped when I read that. I can't understand that kind of thinking, at all. It is completely foreign to me that anyone could be stripped of a basic right to protect one's family. Protection of family is a basic animal instinct and any father will act on that instinct upon seeing a child being molested.

Perhaps I am guilty of jumping to conclusions and not giving the deceased his due process. That's only because I've lived in Texas for 57 years and I know that homicides are not taken lightly. If the father's story was sketchy, he'd have been arrested on the spot. I didn't have to wait for the second news report to know that additional evidence was available to law enforcement.

For the sake of the father, the girl, and the molester, I wish this had ended differently. I think everyone would prefer that the molester had a chance to stand before a judge with a broken nose, black eye, and maybe a few stitches.I don't recall ever saying that the father should be behind bars, or put up for murder charges or any such thing. I simply stated I prefer to know the facts BEFORE I make a decision. What is so difficult to understand about that? The law doesn't work the way you seem to think it does over here, and I can't account for Trev's remarks.

Fools make rash descisions. In light of "NEW EVIDENCE", I can now say I am more confident about how the police handled the situation. In fact I had NO problem with how the police or justice system handled this.

I just like to have some facts straightened out before I start shooting my six shooters off in the air and yelling "Yippy Ki A mother ****er".



The people in the newscast were making "he got what he deserved" statement. Some people here are saying "wait, the dead man is innocent until proven guilty, we need to investigate further", as if Texas authorities hadn't done a thorough job of investigating before deciding not to arrest the father. Yes, I inferred that some believe that Texas didn't take the homicide seriously enough.I never said that the authorities didn't do their job... stop creating strawmen. Yes the dead man deserves due process, yes... I want to reserve judgment about proclaiming a man a hero until I am confident that you know... he actually didn't commit murder. Now that the investigation is complete and believe that the father acted justly, I am satisfied.

Dave76
06-20-2012, 04:59 AM
The father was no billed by the Grand Jury yesterday. So, it would appear that no one in Texas jumped the gun for being on his side.

acrawlingchaos
06-20-2012, 05:16 AM
The father was no billed by the Grand Jury yesterday. So, it would appear that no one in Texas jumped the gun for being on his side.Yes, they did. Investigate FIRST, decide NEXT. That isn't the way it went with the civilians and those ITT. The grand jury had info that others did not, and THEY were able to make an informed decision.

Dave76
06-20-2012, 08:25 AM
Yes, they did. Investigate FIRST, decide NEXT. That isn't the way it went with the civilians and those ITT. The grand jury had info that others did not, and THEY were able to make an informed decision.
I get that. The thing is, Texas authorities had all that information available at the time they responded. Just because the general public didn't know, it didn't mean that LEOs didn't have it. I've seen enough homicides in Texas to know how it goes. When the father was not arrested, I already knew that there was enough information to clear the guy.

The main reason for further investigation was to make sure there this wasn't some convoluted murder plot on the part of the father. Considering that the father owns a horse ranch and the deceased was a hired hand (legal resident Mexican citizen), the odds of this being a planned murder were so far fetched that it would make a great movie if true.

Feel free to remain skeptical of your local LEOs. Feel free to remain skeptical of Texas LEOs. I'll even agree to be skeptical of your local LEOs right along with you since I don't know them. When I read about open/shut cases such as this in Texas, I'm going to go ahead and believe the father's story. I'll be right somewhere around 99.999% of the time.

theKurp
06-20-2012, 08:54 AM
Yes, they did. Investigate FIRST, decide NEXT. That isn't the way it went with the civilians and those ITT. The grand jury had info that others did not, and THEY were able to make an informed decision.

You must accept that very little in the way of "critical thinking" takes place among most of the posters here on BB.com. I have. (Happened when everyone was torching Paterno). I mean, when you have more passion displayed over the size of a soda in New York City than a desire to live a long healthy life (on a bodybuilding site no less), you're forced to come to grips with a certain mindset. For my own peace of mind, I say my piece and then move on.

Dave1958
06-20-2012, 09:50 AM
Me and the Miss were just talking about this and the fact that the police have no plans to charge the Dad. Her words,


"God, I love Texas".

Same for the south in general. I wish we could put a fence on the south side of the Ohio River to limit the import of Yankee Liberals. I get so tired of the "We used to do it this way up NORTH". I like the mexicans better, at least they work!

Dave76
06-20-2012, 01:01 PM
You must accept that very little in the way of "critical thinking" takes place among most of the posters here on BB.com.
Since I'm the guy who has been doing the talking, I'll assume that you think little of my critical thinking skills. I'm not exactly sure how I got sucked into this discussion/debate/argument. My critical thinking skills are normally high enough that I am able to foresee and avoid such discussion. Since I let myself get sucked into this discussion, I guess I'm forced to agree that my critical thinking skill were off. Mea Culpa.

Yes, I celebrated early. Why was I celebrating? I was celebrating because I live in a state that will allow me to use reasonable means to protect my family and myself without fear of prosecution. Heaven forbid that I ever find myself in such a situation but, if I do, it's nice to know that I won't be summarily hauled to jail for doing whatever I had to do to protect my family.

Then, I read this:

Has any evidence been released that the individual in question actually committed a crime? There seems to be little evidence that the little girl was a victim, other "than the fathers word". If all it takes is a pinky swear that "he deserved it", it's time to be a bit concerned.


I guess we can just assume that this dead man is guilty.. right?

Right here is where my critical thinking skills failed me. This statement was completely off topic from what I was trying to say and from what I interpreted was the spirit of the thread. The rights of the dead man are irrelevant and immaterial to any point I was trying to make. In hindsight, I should have completely ignored the statement.

Let me be perfectly clear: I was celebrating the fact that "A" man, any man, in the state of Texas has the right to protect his family, using reasonable force, without fear of prosecution.

I was NOT celebrating the fact that THIS particular father killed THIS particular man in defense of his family. With the possible exception of Osama Bin Laden, I don't celebrate the death of any individual. Whether this particular father was eventually found guilty of a crime was also immaterial and irrelevant. What is material and relevant (at least to me) is that the father was NOT summarily hauled off to jail solely because another man was dead. Killing another human is not an automatic trip to jail in Texas. If I commit a homicide in Texas and all apparent facts show that it was justifiable, MY rights are protected by not sitting in jail for a few weeks while the thorough investigations are completed. I get to go home and wait it out and I get to take my now safe child with me.

It was also a lack of critical thinking skills that led me to say that I was all but certain that the father was, indeed, innocent of all charges, after only reading the initial reports. This, too, was irrelevant and immaterial to the spirit of the discussion. I was right, I knew I was right, and events have proven me right. It doesn't matter how right you are if you're saying it in the wrong place.

I don't know how to make myself any clearer. If you disagree with what I've said in this post, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm out...

acrawlingchaos
06-20-2012, 11:54 PM
Yes, I celebrated early. Why was I celebrating? I was celebrating because I live in a state that will allow me to use reasonable means to protect my family and myself without fear of prosecution. Heaven forbid that I ever find myself in such a situation but, if I do, it's nice to know that I won't be summarily hauled to jail for doing whatever I had to do to protect my family.I live in a state that allows reasonable use of deadly force as well. We are allowed to brandish weapons and protect ourselves as well. I wouldn't be summarily hauled off to prison either. No one ever made the claim that you SHOULDN'T be allowed to protect you and yours. You and your strawmen, you creating an army brah?


Then, I read this:


Right here is where my critical thinking skills failed me. This statement was completely off topic from what I was trying to say and from what I interpreted was the spirit of the thread. The rights of the dead man are irrelevant and immaterial to any point I was trying to make. In hindsight, I should have completely ignored the statement.Did I quote you or direct my comment at you in particular, or are you just swatting at shadows? My comment was mainly directed at the responses IN the video.


Let me be perfectly clear: I was celebrating the fact that "A" man, any man, in the state of Texas has the right to protect his family, using reasonable force, without fear of prosecution.Ya, again... we are discussing to different aspects of the same topic.


I was NOT celebrating the fact that THIS particular father killed THIS particular man in defense of his family. With the possible exception of Osama Bin Laden, I don't celebrate the death of any individual. Whether this particular father was eventually found guilty of a crime was also immaterial and irrelevant. What is material and relevant (at least to me) is that the father was NOT summarily hauled off to jail solely because another man was dead. Killing another human is not an automatic trip to jail in Texas. If I commit a homicide in Texas and all apparent facts show that it was justifiable, MY rights are protected by not sitting in jail for a few weeks while the thorough investigations are completed. I get to go home and wait it out and I get to take my now safe child with me.Did I say he should be? I simply said, judgement should be reserved by US, as citizens.

Let ME make this clear... you are discussing government reaction, I am discussing civilian response....


It was also a lack of critical thinking skills that led me to say that I was all but certain that the father was, indeed, innocent of all charges, after only reading the initial reports. This, too, was irrelevant and immaterial to the spirit of the discussion. I was right, I knew I was right, and events have proven me right. It doesn't matter how right you are if you're saying it in the wrong place.LOL at assuming innocence from an article with next to zero information. LOL at KNOWING you were right. This wasn't about whether the father is wrong or right, it's about reserving judgement until you know what's going on, because mob mentality can influence judicial outcome.

Everyone knew Carlos Deluna was guilty right? Everyone knew Cameron Willingham was guilty, right? What about John Garrett? They were wrong... and Texas put innocent men to death (with scant evidence).

But you..... you KNOW :rolleyes: