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View Full Version : Paleolithic diet vs Ketosis for an off-season football athlete looking to thin out



namechange2
05-02-2012, 06:22 PM
As the title suggests, I am not sure whether to pursue Paleo or ketosis for losing some weight and atleast maintain strength.

I have done keto for roughly 3 weeks with great progress, but my lifts have gone down as a result of the loss.

With this in mind, do you guys think a Paleo diet containing carbohydrates or a very low carb Ketosis diet will be more effective for me this off season?

thanks

SwiftyX
05-02-2012, 07:06 PM
I think a diet that keeps your performance steady while allowing for weight loss will work best. It has to be either or neither of those.

Griot
05-02-2012, 07:16 PM
I would read the stickies about how to calculate your macro-nutrient/caloric needs and go with a 10-20% calorie deficit.

feelsg00dmayne
05-02-2012, 07:30 PM
A caloric deficit does wonders.

namechange2
05-03-2012, 03:12 AM
I would read the stickies about how to calculate your macro-nutrient/caloric needs and go with a 10-20% calorie deficit.


A caloric deficit does wonders.

Obviously a standard caloric deficit diet will work but that is too slow of weight loss. I'm between keto and paleo right now.

WonderPug
05-03-2012, 03:14 AM
Obviously a standard caloric deficit diet will work but that is too slow of weight loss. I'm between keto and paleo right now.A ketogenic diet may result in faster loss of water weight, but that's about it. A "paleo" diet is just plain silly, as it requires arbitrary food restrictions.

The rate of weight loss (aside from water weight) is governed by caloric balance with micro/macronutrient sufficiency playing a role in terms of body composition. See: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748

mattypoole
05-03-2012, 03:21 AM
A ketogenic diet may result in faster loss of water weight, but that's about it. A "paleo" diet is just plain silly, as it requires arbitrary food restrictions.

The rate of weight loss (aside from water weight) is governed by caloric balance with micro/macronutrient sufficiency playing a role in terms of body composition. See: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748

This.

A 500 cal deficit/day on keto will yield no greater fat loss than a 500 cal deficit of any other 'diet'.

The only people that truly benefit on keto more than someone with higher carbs is someone with a genuine metabolic disorder (the vast minority of people).

namechange2
05-03-2012, 03:23 AM
A ketogenic diet may result in faster loss of water weight, but that's about it. A "paleo" diet is just plain silly, as it requires arbitrary food restrictions.

The rate of weight loss (aside from water weight) is governed by caloric balance with micro/macronutrient sufficiency playing a role in terms of body composition. See: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748

good read -

paleo diet is less restricting than keto in a sense though...milk and more vegetables are available...nuts can be eaten more.

WonderPug
05-03-2012, 03:47 AM
paleo diet is less restricting than keto in a sense though...milk and more vegetables are available...nuts can be eaten more.The "paleo" diet has arbitrary restriction on food. A VLCKD does not, but rather restricts intake of CHO to induce ketosis.

And, by the way, you can and should consume vegetables and nuts when using a VLCKD.

namechange2
05-03-2012, 04:06 AM
And, by the way, you can and should consume vegetables and nuts when using a VLCKD.

unfortunately only at a certain amount

Flex500
05-03-2012, 04:39 AM
Obviously a standard caloric deficit diet will work but that is too slow of weight loss. I'm between keto and paleo right now.


I don't think you understand how this works. You can bulk on keto if you want to if you are in a calorie surplus. Being in ketosis doesn's mean automotic fat loss. You lose a lot of water also which is why when someone goes from keto to high carbs they often gain 10-20+ pounds....of water. I'm not saying keto doesn't work but even with ketogenic diets it is about the calories.

If you want to lose weight faster cut the calories more but if you are worried about performance you will probably want a well balanced diet of carbs, fat, and protein.

scotchchris
05-03-2012, 07:01 AM
I don't think you understand how this works. You can bulk on keto if you want to if you are in a calorie surplus. Being in ketosis doesn's mean automotic fat loss. You lose a lot of water also which is why when someone goes from keto to high carbs they often gain 10-20+ pounds....of water. I'm not saying keto doesn't work but even with ketogenic diets it is about the calories.

If you want to lose weight faster cut the calories more but if you are worried about performance you will probably want a well balanced diet of carbs, fat, and protein.

20 lbs of water weight? Is-this-real-life? Keto diets often stress the most important period of the diet is the two weeks after you come out of ketosis.

Many people on this site slag off Keto whilst quoting Lyle McDonalds teachings every other post. He himself states Keto dieting allowed him to get to a level of leanness he had never found beforehand.

OP: On a low calorie diet the fat will come off quicker even when you take into account the water weight issues - if you do the diet properly. However, it will affect performance levels more. On the other hand, it allows you to get back to serious training quicker and carry on with your day-to-day. Strength losses will always return.

Comes down to which you prefer, there is no golden system

Flex500
05-03-2012, 07:10 AM
20 lbs of water weight? Is-this-real-life? Keto diets often stress the most important period of the diet is the two weeks after you come out of ketosis.

Many people on this site slag off Keto whilst quoting Lyle McDonalds teachings every other post. He himself states Keto dieting allowed him to get to a level of leanness he had never found beforehand.

OP: On a low calorie diet the fat will come off quicker even when you take into account the water weight issues - if you do the diet properly. However, it will affect performance levels more. On the other hand, it allows you to get back to serious training quicker and carry on with your day-to-day. Strength losses will always return.

Comes down to which you prefer, there is no golden system



Yes 20 pounds...20 pounds is nothing...I went 198 to 252 in less than a week....272 in 2 weeks...I had a 4 pound fat gain according to teh bodpod. Very very extreme example but if you switch quickly from carbs to no carbs and vice versa 10-20+ is nothing. Of course the goal would be to not switch quickly like that.

Plenty of guys...even natural competitors...get diced on high carb contest prep diets. I do believe when it comes to getting contest ready diced taking out the carbs helps me to get leaner than I could with carbs. So I'm with you and generally in agreement with where you are coming from.

But this is for a football player trying to lose some weight and will do better in that case including some carbs. Some maybe not but even when my fats are high and I'm totally ketosis I just don't feel the same as when I have carbs and I would not go no carbs if I was back in my high school or college athlete days.

aspengc8
05-03-2012, 07:24 AM
I wouldn't do keto if your playing football. Why not just ask your team's/school's nutritionist?

scotchchris
05-03-2012, 07:42 AM
But this is for a football player trying to lose some weight and will do better in that case including some carbs... I would not go no carbs if I was back in my high school or college athlete days.

Me neither actually, I agree with you there

Joseph1990
05-03-2012, 08:03 AM
For most keto is not the way to go, for everyone Paleo is not the way to go.

n0useforaname
05-03-2012, 09:09 AM
I know a couple people who do Keto, but honestly the only reason they do it is because the scale goes down faster and they look slimmer due to the water weight lost.. but they normally feel like crap and crave food more. I know others do it for medical reasons but... you couldn't pay me to do one.

rob2093124
05-03-2012, 09:17 AM
I know a couple people who do Keto, but honestly the only reason they do it is because the scale goes down faster and they look slimmer due to the water weight lost.. but they normally feel like crap and crave food more. I know others do it for medical reasons but... you couldn't pay me to do one.

i'm doing low carb and feel amazing. when i first started, i felt a little groggy. but after a bit, I've experienced better energy levels that stayed consistent along with better satiety, and other benefits.

My endurance is actually pretty damn good when I go real low with carbs for a few days.

not for everyone though

namechange2
05-03-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't think you understand how this works. You can bulk on keto if you want to if you are in a calorie surplus. Being in ketosis doesn's mean automotic fat loss. You lose a lot of water also which is why when someone goes from keto to high carbs they often gain 10-20+ pounds....of water. I'm not saying keto doesn't work but even with ketogenic diets it is about the calories.

If you want to lose weight faster cut the calories more but if you are worried about performance you will probably want a well balanced diet of carbs, fat, and protein.


I apologize for not making my knowledge too clear - I understand the low carb diets result in faster weight loss (MEANING also water, not just fat). I am ruling a balanced maconutrient diet (including carbs) out for until atleast spring season because I would like to "drain myself" (in a sense) of weight before then and do a nice bulk until fall. I appreciate the response.

I know a couple people who do Keto, but honestly the only reason they do it is because the scale goes down faster and they look slimmer due to the water weight lost.. but they normally feel like crap and crave food more. I know others do it for medical reasons but... you couldn't pay me to do one.
This is why I started in the first place - I was satisfied with results despite the lower workout intensity (which is an obvious correlation). I have adequate self discipline with cravings so it's generally not a problem.

I appreciate the responses.

I plan on doing keto for 2 weeks and Paleo (or modified to fit my needs....keeping the no white flour etc out obviously) for the other two, as we have a month until springs.