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Madred
04-30-2012, 10:09 AM
Hey brahs!
I often see cheat days threads here and there, and always wonder wtf is it?
For example, I am on cut atm, eating 2000kkal per day.
If I have cheat day (if I understand right - i eat all I want and how much I want) - knowing myself its gonna be around 4000kkal on that day.
So how will it impact my cut?

Explain me cheat day thingy pls :)

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Hey brahs!
I often see cheat days threads here and there, and always wonder wtf is it?
For example, I am on cut atm, eating 2000kkal per day.
If I have cheat day (if I understand right - i eat all I want and how much I want) - knowing myself its gonna be around 4000kkal on that day.
So how will it impact my cut?

Explain me cheat day thingy pls :)

Cheat days are when you convince yourself it's ok to binge eat whatever you want for an entire day because you're tired and hungry from dieting. It's going to set you back 2000 calories worth of dieting to answer the question.

BDeblo
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
Cheat days are when you convince yourself it's ok to binge eat whatever you want for an entire day because you're tired and hungry from dieting. It's going to set you back 2000 calories worth of dieting to answer the question.

Easy there. Watch using the term binge out of context

Jen0va
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
cheat days are something that people who construct a proper diet of foods they like, while implementing moderation rarely feel a need for.

Hborno
04-30-2012, 10:23 AM
Basically its a day where u eat all what you want while on a diet , your body starts getting used to either ur low intake of food or high intake of food based on what our doing, so for instance if ur losing weight ur stomache starts shrinking and ur eating less food so ur burning rate of fat starts to get lower , to keep ur burning r ation you have a cheat day its like ur telling ur body dont get used to that im not burning fat so it goes back to normal burning. IMO while cutting u should only have a cheat meal not a full day.

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 10:23 AM
^^WTF did i just read???


Anyhow...

Cheat days are a means of psychological cleansing and relief of cravings for people who think they need to eat bland food to get results and those who never allow indulgences in moderation. In other words, for those who've never heard of IIFYM.

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
Easy there. Watch using the term binge out of context

Lol I think you know what I meant, a proper refeed day is not the same as a cheat day. A structured refeed keeps fats low carbs high for restoring muscle glycogen and helping prevent metabolic slowdown. Refeeds are also dependent on how much bodyfat you're carrying and how big your calorie deficit is. A cheat day is usually an excuse to order a few stuffed crust pizzas and buy a couple gallons of ice cream.

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 10:27 AM
A structured refeed keeps fats low carbs high for restoring muscle glycogen...

That's a carb-up, not a refeed. A refeed doesn't have to focus on keeping carbs high.

Jen0va
04-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Easy there. Watch using the term binge out of context

Something tells me this was the product of people being over-sensitive to eating disorder related topics. Which I see alot from certain users on this forum that I'll refrain from mentioning.

<---btw recovering from multiple ED's so come the **** @ me for saying it. I dare anyone ^_^

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 10:37 AM
Something tells me this was the product of people being over-sensitive to eating disorder related topics. Which I see alot from certain users on this forum that I'll refrain from mentioning.

<---btw recovering from multiple ED's so come the **** @ me for saying it. I dare anyone ^_^

Ah I've gotcha, I didn't mean it in that context at all to be honest.

Madred
04-30-2012, 10:39 AM
Oh wow, thanks for all the replies, guys xD
I just wondered what would happen if I am cutting on 2k kkal daily and eat 4000kkal, say, once per week or two weeks.
So all of these kkals will be digested and they all count, right?

wdmvp
04-30-2012, 10:40 AM
What would happen is you would likely lose weight at a slower rate than if you weren't to incorporate a cheat.

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Oh wow, thanks for all the replies, guys xD
I just wondered what would happen if I am cutting on 2k kkal daily and eat 4000kkal, say, once per week or two weeks.
So all of these kkals will be digested and they all count, right?

Just add up your weekly deficit and subtract 2000 calories from it to get an idea of what your Total Deficit is for the week. It might slow progress a little, but if it helps you stick to your diet long term then why not.

donmiller212
04-30-2012, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't do a cheat day. Like everyone else said it's basically a day off of your diet.

Instead, I would do one cheat meal a week. You get to eat your favorite food, but it will likely only put you a couple hundred calories over your goal, rather than a couple thousand.

Jen0va
04-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Ah I've gotcha, I didn't mean it in that context at all to be honest.

HAHA, yes I know you didn't. I was saying that some users are a bit too sensitive to these sort of issues and thus MIGHT.

I had assumed this was what BDeblo was saying, if not supporting. But I may be wrong.

no worries brutha.

NaLLa8705
04-30-2012, 10:51 AM
That's a carb-up, not a refeed. A refeed doesn't have to focus on keeping carbs high.

Care to expand on benefits of a carb up vs refeeds? Benefits? Uses?

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 10:55 AM
That's a carb-up, not a refeed. A refeed doesn't have to focus on keeping carbs high.

A Structured-Refeed does :P

BBqChicken1
04-30-2012, 10:57 AM
Bulking on 4000-5000 calories here, come at me.


Every day is a cheat day.



lulz

donmiller212
04-30-2012, 11:09 AM
Bulking on 4000-5000 calories here, come at me.


Every day is a cheat day.



lulz

lol i am bulking on a little over 4000 cal too, but i still wouldn't consider any of my meals cheat meals.

Jen0va
04-30-2012, 11:13 AM
Bulking on 4000-5000 calories here, come at me.


Every day is a cheat day.



lulz


lol i am bulking on a little over 4000 cal too, but i still wouldn't consider any of my meals cheat meals.

It woul be DOUBLY sad to see someone actively incorperate a cheat day while bulking ^_^

I could only imagine this happening if someone was purely bro-feeding....you know the type....
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/166/611/mrClean_CS_MrClean_logo_display_image.png?13353217 81

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 11:37 AM
Care to expand on benefits of a carb up vs refeeds? Benefits? Uses?

A carb-up or "carb-load" is specifically that: drastically increasing carb intake to supercompensate glycogen storage for better performance in the gym. It is often done as part of Cyclical Ketogenic Diets. The main aspects to a successful carb-load (to maximize glycogen storage) are the duration of the carb-load and the total amount of carbohydrates consumed during this time period. Something like 70% of calories or more should come from starchy carbs, with fat being kept to a minimum.

A refeed is a temporary increase in calories (during a dieting phase) to maintainance or above. Besides the mental break of dieting, it will increase T4 to T3 conversion, TSH, and TRH. These are thyroid hormones which have a direct impact on basal metabolic rate.


A Structured-Refeed does :P

When I say refeed, it implies that it's structured...otherwise it's a cheat day ;)

SwiftyX
04-30-2012, 11:59 AM
A carb-up or "carb-load" is specifically that: drastically increasing carb intake to supercompensate glycogen storage for better performance in the gym. It is often done as part of Cyclical Ketogenic Diets. The main aspects to a successful carb-load (to maximize glycogen storage) are the duration of the carb-load and the total amount of carbohydrates consumed during this time period. Something like 70% of calories or more should come from starchy carbs, with fat being kept to a minimum.

A refeed is a temporary increase in calories (during a dieting phase) to maintainance or above. Besides the mental break of dieting, it will increase T4 to T3 conversion, TSH, and TRH. These are thyroid hormones which have a direct impact on basal metabolic rate.


Aren't you just playing with semantics? They should both be set up in a similar fashion as fat does not acutely help with leptin, and also doesn't lend to any of the other hormonal effects in the short term. Couple that with the fact that fat is easily stored in a surplus and I do not see the need for a separation of terms. Unless you've seen research to the contrary...I'd love to see it because I've haven't come across anything.

Skoorbmax
04-30-2012, 12:02 PM
Cheat days are when you convince yourself it's ok to binge eat whatever you want for an entire day because you're tired and hungry from dieting. It's going to set you back 2000 calories worth of dieting to answer the question.Basically this. It's a day when I get lazy and say by God I just want a gut full of carbs because it feels so good. It doesn't serve a greater good, but it tastes good.

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 12:09 PM
Aren't you just playing with semantics? They should both be set up in a similar fashion as fat does not acutely help with leptin, and also doesn't lend to any of the other hormonal effects in the short term. Couple that with the fact that fat is easily stored in a surplus and I do not see the need for a separation of terms. Unless you've seen research to the contrary...I'd love to see it because I've haven't come across anything.

There's some overlap in the "benefits", but they're two different concepts and serve two different purposes. Think about it this way: A carb-up can still be achieved while in a caloric deficit, and a refeed can be done with low to moderate carb intake and still produce the metabolic benefits.

SwiftyX
04-30-2012, 12:12 PM
There's some overlap in the "benefits", but they're two different concepts and serve two different purposes. Think about it this way: A carb-up can still be achieved while in a caloric deficit, and a refeed can be done with low to moderate carb intake and still produce the metabolic benefits.

That's true depending on the carb intake needed from a glycogen stadpoint. Just clarifying with you hoping to see something I had not yet picked through ad naseum. haha.

R31S
04-30-2012, 12:20 PM
Can be called looser day, too.

NaLLa8705
04-30-2012, 12:28 PM
Thank you Mike

-TheKingPin-
04-30-2012, 12:31 PM
There's some overlap in the "benefits", but they're two different concepts and serve two different purposes. Think about it this way: A carb-up can still be achieved while in a caloric deficit, and a refeed can be done with low to moderate carb intake and still produce the metabolic benefits.

Do carb-ups also have the same benefit of "increasing T4 to T3 conversion, TSH, and TRH" or does the overfeeding have to be sustained for longer than a day?

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 12:36 PM
Do carb-ups also have the same benefit of "increasing T4 to T3 conversion, TSH, and TRH" or does the overfeeding have to be sustained for longer than a day?

Yes, if your carb-ups put you in a caloric surplus then definitely.

TunaShakes
04-30-2012, 01:40 PM
A carb-up or "carb-load" is specifically that: drastically increasing carb intake to supercompensate glycogen storage for better performance in the gym. It is often done as part of Cyclical Ketogenic Diets. The main aspects to a successful carb-load (to maximize glycogen storage) are the duration of the carb-load and the total amount of carbohydrates consumed during this time period. Something like 70% of calories or more should come from starchy carbs, with fat being kept to a minimum.

A refeed is a temporary increase in calories (during a dieting phase) to maintainance or above. Besides the mental break of dieting, it will increase T4 to T3 conversion, TSH, and TRH. These are thyroid hormones which have a direct impact on basal metabolic rate.



When I say refeed, it implies that it's structured...otherwise it's a cheat day ;)

It is beneficial to make sure most of the refeed is carbs though with low fats. Carbs have an impact on helping to normalize leptin / thyroid whereas increasing calories from fats/protein doesn't do much at all, but they do taste good.

BBqChicken1
04-30-2012, 02:00 PM
It woul be DOUBLY sad to see someone actively incorperate a cheat day while bulking ^_^

I could only imagine this happening if someone was purely bro-feeding....you know the type....
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/166/611/mrClean_CS_MrClean_logo_display_image.png?13353217 81


Do you know how hard it is to get 4000-5000 cals when you're not even hungry until around 3? I ate a banana in the morning and spent 6 hours in school and wasn't even hungry.

tommybhoy
04-30-2012, 02:29 PM
Do you know how hard it is to get 4000-5000 cals when you're not even hungry until around 3? I ate a banana in the morning and spent 6 hours in school and wasn't even hungry.

It is hard. I was nearly sick on Friday when I was doing a carb refeed 1000g is a lot

slopecarver
04-30-2012, 02:33 PM
I'm cutting with IF (intermittent fasting), every other day is a mild cheat day.

donmiller212
04-30-2012, 04:02 PM
Do you know how hard it is to get 4000-5000 cals when you're not even hungry until around 3? I ate a banana in the morning and spent 6 hours in school and wasn't even hungry.

Yes, most of us do know. Home made weight gainer shakes will really help you. whey, bananas, oats, milk, peanut butter, blended together. you can easily get seven hundred + calories that way.

Azrairc
04-30-2012, 04:05 PM
a cheat day for me is eating until i feel food backing up into my throat from my stomach

Leprechauns1021
04-30-2012, 04:29 PM
Cheat days are when you convince yourself it's ok to binge eat whatever you want for an entire day because you're tired and hungry from dieting. It's going to set you back 2000 calories worth of dieting to answer the question.

Easy there. Watch using the term binge out of context

No, thats exactly what it is. Saying you can go out and eat whatever you want and indulge in a vast amount of food is the very definition of a binge. Most of the time, the people who have all out "cheat days" are suffering from an ED and definitely not too far removed from the people who engage in binge eating episodes.

The only difference is that one group rationalizes their behavior with false logic of "revving up" their metabolism or something of the sort

hilltopper1993
04-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Do you know how hard it is to get 4000-5000 cals when you're not even hungry until around 3? I ate a banana in the morning and spent 6 hours in school and wasn't even hungry.

you'll be lucky when you cut.... I eat 3500-4000 a day now and im always hungry. Cutting will be a bitch whenever I get to a weight I want to cut from.

aaronuconn
04-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Personally, I'll have a cheat day (where I eat 300-400 above maintenance) if I'm feeling fatigued, or just constant urges for more calories. Usually after that, I feel much better for a while.

MikeK46
04-30-2012, 09:08 PM
It is beneficial to make sure most of the refeed is carbs though with low fats. Carbs have an impact on helping to normalize leptin / thyroid whereas increasing calories from fats/protein doesn't do much at all, but they do taste good.

If that was the case, then a low-carb diet would squash your metabolism, and a ketogenic diet would absolutely wreck it. Since neither of these is true, I find your statement (that fat & protein does not support thyroid levels) very hard to believe at face value. Can you point me to any credible sources? Because to my knowledge, one does not need to focus on consuming tons of carbs during a refeed, and that as long as there are at least some, the benefits will be realized because it's total caloric intake that is the major predictor of thyroid hormone levels, not any specific nutrients.

A few things I found quickly:

"Mean T4 and rT3 levels were similar after all diets. Pair-wise comparisons among all five diets revealed significantly (P < 0.005) increased T3 concentrations after both hypercaloric diets compared to the iso-20 and iso-40 diets, and after the iso-80 compared to the iso-20 diet. A multiple regression analysis of the data revealed the highest correlation of T3 levels with total calories (r = 0.68; P < 0.001) rather than with the intake of CHO (r = 0.46; P < 0.025), fat (r = 0.49; P < 0.02), or protein (r = 0.30; P = NS). "

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/48/4/577.short

"There were no significant changes in glucagon, total or free testosterone, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), cortisol, or triiodothyronine (T(3)) uptake, nor were there significant changes in body composition or hormones in the control group."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732?dopt=AbstractPlus

TunaShakes
05-01-2012, 03:19 AM
It's finals week and I don't have much time this morning here are a couple quick things I found, I'll dig some more up later.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-2.html
I’d note that, in the short-term, only carbohydrate intake affects leptin leptin levels; fat overfeeding has no effect. In addition, changes in fat mass per se don’t regulate leptin in the short-term (less than 48 hours). Rather, it’s the effect of glucose metabolism within the fat cell that is affecting leptin synthesis and release.

As for T3-T4 conversion the main factor is liver glycogen, and on a keto diet that stays depleted until you "carb up" with "carbs" hoping to normalize liver glycogen. Some people also don't react well to Keto diets me being one of them, so I'm a bit biased.

-That first study also talks about rT3, which is an isomer of T3 and rT3 is the inactive one, so that's not really relevant since it's not going to have the same effect as the active T3 isomer.



"T3 levels in the body are primarily related to the carbohydrate content of the diet (44-46)
although calories also play a role (47-49). When calories are above 800 per day, the
carbohydrate content of the diet is the critical factor in regulating T3 levels and a minimum of 50
grams per day of carbohydrate is necessary to prevent the drop in T3 (44,48,49). To the
contrary, one study found that a 1500 calorie diet of 50% carbohydrate and 50% fat still caused a
drop in T3, suggesting that fat intake may also affect thyroid hormone metabolism (50)."
-Lyle McDonald - The Ketogenic Diet







If that was the case, then a low-carb diet would squash your metabolism, and a ketogenic diet would absolutely wreck it. Since neither of these is true, I find your statement (that fat & protein does not support thyroid levels) very hard to believe at face value. Can you point me to any credible sources? Because to my knowledge, one does not need to focus on consuming tons of carbs during a refeed, and that as long as there are at least some, the benefits will be realized because it's total caloric intake that is the major predictor of thyroid hormone levels, not any specific nutrients.



A few things I found quickly:

"Mean T4 and rT3 levels were similar after all diets. Pair-wise comparisons among all five diets revealed significantly (P < 0.005) increased T3 concentrations after both hypercaloric diets compared to the iso-20 and iso-40 diets, and after the iso-80 compared to the iso-20 diet. A multiple regression analysis of the data revealed the highest correlation of T3 levels with total calories (r = 0.68; P < 0.001) rather than with the intake of CHO (r = 0.46; P < 0.025), fat (r = 0.49; P < 0.02), or protein (r = 0.30; P = NS). "

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/48/4/577.short

"There were no significant changes in glucagon, total or free testosterone, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), cortisol, or triiodothyronine (T(3)) uptake, nor were there significant changes in body composition or hormones in the control group."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12077732?dopt=AbstractPlus

BBqChicken1
05-01-2012, 03:27 AM
Yes, most of us do know. Home made weight gainer shakes will really help you. whey, bananas, oats, milk, peanut butter, blended together. you can easily get seven hundred + calories that way.

I make a shake like that without whey, 1000-1200 calories every day, but it's still a pain in the ass to get that much. I've cut for the last 4 months, was supposed to cut for another 10 weeks but it's so fkin pointless and I don't even enjoy eating most foods and when I eat something tasty I'm almost at my calorie goal with no protein.

Fulking is the best.

TunaShakes
05-01-2012, 06:24 AM
Found a couple more

Diabete Metab. 1982 Dec;8(4):299-305.
Hormonal and metabolic changes induced by an isocaloric isoproteinic ketogenic diet in healthy subjects.

Fery F, Bourdoux P, Christophe J, Balasse EO.
Abstract

The effects of a 4-day isocaloric isoprotenic dietary replacement of carbohydrate by fats were studied in six healthy subjects, the experimental diet being preceded and followed by a 3-day period of balanced diet. During the ketogenic regimen, the concentrations of fat derived substrates (free fatty acids, glycerol and 3-hydroxybutyrate) rose significantly and glucose levels decreased by 16.5 +/- 3.2% (mean +/- SEM). The hormonal pattern switched towards a catabolic mode with a fall in insulin levels (-44.0 +/- 6.3%) and a rise in glucagon concentration (+39.0 +/- 10.4%). A significant fall in triiodothyronine and rise in reverse triiodothyronine were observed, while thyroxine levels remained unchanged. The average levels of the most important gluconeogenic amino acids (alanine, glutamine, glycine, serine and threonine) were reduced by 8-34% while those of the branched chain amino acids increased by more than 50%. Since these changes reproduce those observed after a few days of total fasting, we suggest that it is the carbohydrate restriction itself which is responsible for the metabolic and hormonal adaptations of brief fasting.

--------------

J Endocrinol Invest. 1983 Apr;6(2):81-9.
Relationships between iodothyronine peripheral metabolism and ketone bodies during hypocaloric dietary manipulations.

Pasquali R, Baraldi G, Biso P, Pasqui F, Mattioli L, Capelli M, Callivá R, Spoto M, Melchionda N, Labň G.
Abstract

Relationships between iodothyronine and metabolic substrate metabolism during undernutrition were evaluated in four normal subjects who fasted for 48h (Group I) and in four groups (II to V) of obese patients who underwent selective dietary manipulations: 360 calories [carbohydrate (CHO) 40 g/day]; 800 calories containing respectively 19 g/day - ketogenic - (K) and 112 g/day - non ketogenic - (NK) of CHO; and a step-diet programme (during which total calories were progressively reduced from 2500 to 500). Serum T3 levels decreased significantly and constantly during fasting, 360 and 800 K studies, and transiently during the 800 NK diet. During the step-diet programme, a significant fall was found only when 1250 K or less were given. Conversely, serum reverse T3 rose significantly and constantly during 360 and 800 K diets, while a transient increase was found during the 800 NK diet. During the step-diet programme reverse T3 rose only when 750 calories were given. Ketogenesis developed in all studies but one (800 NK), and in the step-diet programme significantly below the 1000 calorie step. Other substrate modifications in each study were also evaluated. Serum T3 levels showed a significant correlation with ketone bodies (KB) in all the ketogenic studies, while no correlation was found in non ketogenic study (800 NK). During the step-diet programme ketone bodies and iodothyronine modifications appeared to be related to the amount of calories. Based on these results, we suggest a relationship between the dietary-induced modifications of iodothyronine metabolism and the development of ketogenesis.

leibowski
05-01-2012, 07:27 AM
I envy those who say they can't fit their calories in. :)

Ronnie87
05-01-2012, 08:35 AM
A cheat day is where I look in the mirror and I'm quite happy with what I see, so I order a stuffed crust pepperoni pizza and eat a tub of Ben and Jerrys then spend the next 5 days dieting and lifting to get back where I was. Essentially I like to call my cheat days "a Saturday".

MikeK46
05-01-2012, 08:48 AM
It's finals week and I don't have much time this morning here are a couple quick things I found, I'll dig some more up later.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-2.html
I’d note that, in the short-term, only carbohydrate intake affects leptin leptin levels; fat overfeeding has no effect. In addition, changes in fat mass per se don’t regulate leptin in the short-term (less than 48 hours). Rather, it’s the effect of glucose metabolism within the fat cell that is affecting leptin synthesis and release.

As for T3-T4 conversion the main factor is liver glycogen, and on a keto diet that stays depleted until you "carb up" with "carbs" hoping to normalize liver glycogen. Some people also don't react well to Keto diets me being one of them, so I'm a bit biased.

-That first study also talks about rT3, which is an isomer of T3 and rT3 is the inactive one, so that's not really relevant since it's not going to have the same effect as the active T3 isomer.



"T3 levels in the body are primarily related to the carbohydrate content of the diet (44-46)
although calories also play a role (47-49). When calories are above 800 per day, the
carbohydrate content of the diet is the critical factor in regulating T3 levels and a minimum of 50
grams per day of carbohydrate is necessary to prevent the drop in T3 (44,48,49). To the
contrary, one study found that a 1500 calorie diet of 50% carbohydrate and 50% fat still caused a
drop in T3, suggesting that fat intake may also affect thyroid hormone metabolism (50)."
-Lyle McDonald - The Ketogenic Diet

Yes, carb intake has an effect on Leptin, but Leptin has nothing to do with metabolic rate, so it's irrelevant to the topic. As far as T3, Lyle says that "a minimum of 50 grams per day of carbohydrate is necessary to prevent the drop in T3," which tells us that it really doesn't take all very many carbs at all to sustain T4->T3 conversion.

Thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) is produced by the hypothalamus in the brain, and controls production of Thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), which in turn controls production of T4 and T3.

Regarding the study that found that "a 1500 calorie diet of 50% carbohydrate and 50% fat still caused a drop in T3, suggesting that fat intake may also affect thyroid hormone metabolism," it doesn't isolate lack of carbs as the culprit (then again, at 50%, you couldn't even say is lacking at all), and it's most likely that the high PUFA intake caused the drop in T3. If it was higher in SFAs and MUFAs (or higher in protein and lower in fat in general), there may not have been any drop at all even if carbs were much lower.

(In Ullrich et al 1985, in a study of healthy young adults, T3 levels on a high polyunsaturated diet decreased more than on a high protein diet, while TSH, T4, and rT3 did not change significantly. In 1995, Vasquez et al tested four very low calorie diets, with variable amounts of carbs, fats and protein, in 48 obese women for 28 days. All diets were in liquid form, and fat was predominantly PUFA. T3 thyroid hormone levels decreased on all of these severely calorie restricted diets. However, when PUFA was high the decrease in T3 was much larger than when PUFA was low.)

So it looks like it's PUFA's that can drive T3 levels down, as opposed to variations in CHO intake. The studies in your second post lead me to conclude the same thing. Everything points to the notion that optimal thyroid hormone levels can therefore be achieved with "sufficient" protein, moderate carbs, and primarily MUFAs and SFAs as the fat sources.

Danforth E Jr et al. Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition. J Clin Invest. 1979 Nov;64(5):1336-47. http://pmid.us/500814

Ullrich IH et al. Effect of low-carbohydrate diets high in either fat or protein on thyroid function, plasma insulin, glucose, and triglycerides in healthy young adults. J Am Coll Nutr. 1985;4(4):451-9. http://pmid.us/3900181

Vazquez JA et al. Protein metabolism during weight reduction with very-low-energy diets: evaluation of the independent effects of protein and carbohydrate on protein sparing. Am J Clin Nutr. 1995 Jul;62(1):93-103. http://pmid.us/7598072

Joseph1990
05-01-2012, 09:00 AM
"Cheat day" I a delusional way of convincing yourself it's ok to give into your weakness and binge like a dumbass.