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Tamorlane
04-22-2012, 07:02 PM
Atlantis (in Greek, Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος, "island of Atlas") is a legendary island first mentioned in Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias, written about 360 BC.

According to Plato, Atlantis was a naval power lying "in front of the Pillars of Hercules" that conquered many parts of Western Europe and Africa 9,000 years before the time of Solon, or approximately 9600 BC. After a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean "in a single day and night of misfortune".

Scholars dispute whether and how much Plato's story or account was inspired by older traditions. In Critias, Plato claims that his accounts of ancient Athens and Atlantis stem from a visit to Egypt by the legendary Athenian lawgiver Solon in the 6th century BC. In Egypt, Solon met a priest of Sais, who translated the history of ancient Athens and Atlantis, recorded on papyri in Egyptian hieroglyphs, into Greek. Some scholars argue Plato drew upon memories of past events such as the Thera eruption or the Trojan War, while others insist that he took inspiration from contemporary events like the destruction of Helike in 373 BC or the failed Athenian invasion of Sicily in 415–413 BC.


During the late 19th century, ideas about the legendary nature of Atlantis were combined with stories of other lost continents such as Mu and Lemuria. The esoteric text Oera Linda, published in 1872, mentions it under the name Atland (the name used by Olaus Rudbeck). The book claims that it was submerged in 2193 BC, the same year that 19th century almanacs, following traditional Biblical chronology, gave for Noah's flood. Helena Blavatsky wrote in The Secret Doctrine (1888) that the Atlanteans were cultural heroes (contrary to Plato who describes them mainly as a military threat), and are the fourth "Root Race", succeeded by the "Aryan race". Furthermore, she expressed the belief that it was Homer before Plato who first wrote of Atlantis.

Theosophists believe the civilization of Atlantis reached its peak between 1,000,000 and 900,000 years ago but destroyed itself through internal warfare brought about by the inhabitants' dangerous use of magical powers. William Scott-Elliot in The Story of Atlantis (1896) elaborated on Blavatsky's account, claiming that Atlantis eventually split into two linked islands, one called Daitya, and the other Ruta, which was later reduced to a final remnant called Poseidonis. Scott-Elliot's information came from the clairvoyant Charles Webster Leadbeater.

Rudolf Steiner wrote of the cultural evolution of Atlantis in much the same vein. Edgar Cayce first mentioned Atlantis in 1923, and later suggested that it was originally a continent-sized region extending from the Azores to the Bahamas, holding an ancient, highly evolved civilization which had ships and aircraft powered by a mysterious form of energy crystal. He also predicted that parts of Atlantis would rise in 1968 or 1969. The Bimini Road, a submerged rock formation of large rectangular stones just off North Bimini Island in the Bahamas, was claimed by Robert Ferro and Michael Grumley to be evidence of the lost civilization. Edgar Cayce and others have often described Atlantis using techniques associated with Psychic archaeology.

Lost city of Atlantis believed found off Spain
Archaeologists and geologists use imagery to find site ravaged by tsunami
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/#.T5S2U6tSTzg



If you are genuinely interested in the story of Atlantis then the only place to start is the source - the writings of Plato and the stories of Timaeus and Critias.

When you remove the gods, the parables and the sociological interpretation from the text you are left with the following key points.

Solon (638 BC–558 BC) was a famous Athenian statesman, lawmaker, and Lyric poet who allegedly heard the story of Atlantis from Egyptian priests that he was visiting that claimed that the Athenians had forgotten their true history because from time-to-time their civilization had been largely destroyed by catastrophes.
The Egyptian priests referred to the “Declamation of Heavenly Bodies”, meaning meteorites, which cause devastation on the planet. -----The Egyptian priests understood that from time-to-time there were serious natural catastrophes that involved fire and water (from which they had been largely immune). They attributed these to the actions of the Gods
A war once took place between the Athenians and the Atlanteans The Athenians apparently came from Athens.
The Atlanteans apparently came from an island beyond the pillars of Hercules (Straights of Gibraltar)
The war took place 9,000 years before the time of writing which was approximately 2,500 years before today – so in effect 11,500 years ago.
Atlantis was allegedly an island greater in size than Libya and Asia combined.
Atlantis was eventually destroyed by an earthquake.
The Athenian Gods were at peace with each other.
The story had been forgotten by the Athenians because of a great deluge whereby only the illiterate people of the mountains had survived.
Solon inferred that the event took place before the time of Theseus.
At the time the Athenians ruled a land from the Isthmus (of Corinth) to the heights of the Cithaeron (a mountain range in what is today central Greece) and Parnes. Oropus was the boundary on the right and the river Asopus the boundary on the left.
The Athenian land was fertile and able to support a great army.
Many floods had taken place during the 9,000 years prior to the recording of the story.
Many of the cliffs surrounding this (Athenian) land had been eroded and fallen into the sea. Many of the woods that once existed have disappeared. The land was less eroded and less rainfall was swept into the sea.
The climate was more temperate.
The Acropolis was larger and surrounded by soil and not the outcrop of rock it is now.
They had Gymnasia.
There were once more springs that disappeared after an earthquake.
The Athenians were healthy, beautiful people that were well prepared for war.
Poseidon was patron and God of Atlantis. (God of the sea and earthquakes)
Atlantis was an Island with a small mountain at its centre with fertile plains surrounding it.
The central mountain had rings of water surrounding it.
Water flowed from underground - some hot, some cold.
Crops flourished in the fertile soil.
Poseidon’s first child (born on Atlantis) was named Atlas and the ocean around the Island was named Atlantic.
From beyond the Pillars of Hercules the lost city of Atlantis controlled islands and lands as far as Egypt.
They had extensive trade with other countries.
Orichalcum (an unknown red coloured metal or alloy possible a mixture of copper and gold) was common on the Island.
The Island was well forested.
There were a great number of elephants on the Island.
The Island had chestnut trees.
The City / island existed long enough for many rulers / kings to develop it.
The lost city of Atlantis had a canal from the sea to an inner lagoon.
Three kinds of stone, one red, one black and one white were quarried on the Island of Atlantis.
They used brass to cover their dwellings and brass, tin and orichalcum to cover the outer walls of their cities.
Poseidon’s temple at the centre had a barbaric appearance and the roof (interior) was made of Ivory.
In the temple there was a statue of the god in a chariot.
The lost city of Atlantis made use of private and public baths and then saved the water for use on their fields.
The later docks had Triremes and many naval supplies.
The Island had cliffs on most sides but was otherwise a plateau with a small mountain at its centre and mountains to the North.
The North of the Island had high and beautiful mountains.
The plain featured a circular ditch (canyon) of such size (a 100 ft in depth) that it could not have been manmade.
The military had war chariots.
They benefited from winter rains.
Their shields were small.
The land was divided into ten kingdoms each with its own city.
No King was to ever make war on another Atlantean King.
This rule lasted for a great time but in the end the Kings became victim to mortal desires and sins.

That’s it. These are the key points. The remainder of the story as recorded by Plato is lost.

SteelSS
04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
Isn't it widely known (or believed if you prefer) that it was just used as a metaphor (or allegory)?

Iterated
04-22-2012, 07:37 PM
There would be geological evidence if such a continent existed.

Tamorlane
04-22-2012, 07:39 PM
There would be geological evidence if such a continent existed.

one example of a possibility http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/#.T5TAyKtSTzh

A-GAME
04-22-2012, 08:21 PM
To believe on faith is pointless. There is no proof such a place exists, other than the description given by Plato which as previously mentioned, is widely accepted to be a metaphor. The possibility such a place exists is certainly present, given that there are many underwater cities yet to be explored in full, however there is still no evidence for Atlantis. That said, the new age movements description of some society existing which was far more advanced than our own is laughable at this point.

hayekforever
04-22-2012, 08:30 PM
yes, I read Atlas shrugged

bearfan34201
04-22-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm a romantic. So yes I like to think so.

essenn
04-22-2012, 09:23 PM
That said, the new age movements description of some society existing which was far more advanced than our own is laughable at this point.

Laughable? How so?

The possibility that there may have been a civilization far more superior to ours is actually possible given the length of time humans have been on this planet. At a minimum humans have been in their current form for about 50000 years. That is a tiny fraction of the recorded history we have today, we have been keeping a "timeline" of world history since the creation of written history about 5000BC (give or take, and that refers to picture writing too) with origins pointing to Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt.

So how is it so easy to disregard the vast time period before the last 8000 years? There is no way to account for previous civilizations existence due to the nature of the Earth and shifts in environmental factors. Did you know there was an iceage prior to 10000BC? Which may have affected previous life and civilizations? It could have wiped out a large portion of existing human populations on Earth, you never know, im not claiming it happened but the theory and factual evidence can certainly support the idea.

Quite obviously when an event like this occurs there would be massive catastrophe, it can even support the notion that there is a lost civilization (aka Atlantis), anythings possible, it would also be able to support the notion that a civilization superior to ours also suffered the same fate, we humans in our current form dont have the knowledge of history and time, therefore all we can do is speculate.

Just the same way that aliens visiting us on Earth in the past is possible, the theory and supporting evidence do match up with the idea but to prove the notion will take solid evidence which i just dont think is possible to find; the remains may be there (pyramids,etc) but even then it is speculation whether humans built those by themselves or had outside help.

Thoughts?

A-GAME
04-22-2012, 11:07 PM
Laughable? How so?

The possibility that there may have been a civilization far more superior to ours is actually possible given the length of time humans have been on this planet. At a minimum humans have been in their current form for about 50000 years. That is a tiny fraction of the recorded history we have today, we have been keeping a "timeline" of world history since the creation of written history about 5000BC (give or take, and that refers to picture writing too) with origins pointing to Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt.

So how is it so easy to disregard the vast time period before the last 8000 years? There is no way to account for previous civilizations existence due to the nature of the Earth and shifts in environmental factors. Did you know there was an iceage prior to 10000BC? Which may have affected previous life and civilizations? It could have wiped out a large portion of existing human populations on Earth, you never know, im not claiming it happened but the theory and factual evidence can certainly support the idea.

Quite obviously when an event like this occurs there would be massive catastrophe, it can even support the notion that there is a lost civilization (aka Atlantis), anythings possible, it would also be able to support the notion that a civilization superior to ours also suffered the same fate, we humans in our current form dont have the knowledge of history and time, therefore all we can do is speculate.

Just the same way that aliens visiting us on Earth in the past is possible, the theory and supporting evidence do match up with the idea but to prove the notion will take solid evidence which i just dont think is possible to find; the remains may be there (pyramids,etc) but even then it is speculation whether humans built those by themselves or had outside help.

Thoughts?


Laughable in the sense that there is zero evidence such a civilisation occurred, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. It is certainly possible such a civilisation existed, it is also that dinosaurs used to ride around in spaceships, however at this point, there is no evidence to support either of those statements. Hence, any belief is simply having faith in a fairy tale.

op135
04-22-2012, 11:36 PM
i find atlantis interesting. if you want another mystery, look into the sudden appearance of cromagnons into the european continent (from the west!) and also their advanced technology. there is speculation that the cromagnons are the descendents of atlantis, possibly because a very large group of people fled the continent before it's destruction.

Rowbro
04-23-2012, 12:18 AM
I voted yes, but didn't really read enough of the thread content to realize what I was voting for :(

I believe there was probably a place called "Atlantis", but they were not high tech overlords or anything like that. Probably just a bunch of dudes with some sweet ships or something.

bobbaklyn
04-23-2012, 12:54 AM
http://i.imgur.com/CtSfI.jpg

essenn
04-23-2012, 12:57 AM
Laughable in the sense that there is zero evidence such a civilisation occurred, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.

So can we say the same thing about ufo's ?

A-GAME
04-23-2012, 03:17 AM
So can we say the same thing about ufo's ?



You are seriously retarded. Stop quoting me.

footmenrow
04-23-2012, 03:23 AM
it's an interesting read though, real or not.

Tamorlane
04-23-2012, 06:16 AM
Laughable in the sense that there is zero evidence such a civilisation occurred, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. It is certainly possible such a civilisation existed, it is also that dinosaurs used to ride around in spaceships, however at this point, there is no evidence to support either of those statements. Hence, any belief is simply having faith in a fairy tale.

How can you say there is zero evidence? Clearly Plato's account is some evidence like we take the Bible as some evidence that a man named Jesus existed. And his point about UFO's made perfect sense. We don't have evidence really but we do have stories, conjecture, speculation, etc. Is it possible that in truth we've already been visited? Most likely. I would never say that for sure, Atlantis never existed. How would we know?

Here is a quote from a channel I found:

Atlantis is a highly debated topic in spiritual circles. Much of the information currently circulating, however, has either been heavily romanticized or distorted to serve the individual beliefs of the channel.

Atlantis never existed in the way that's often portrayed by psychics and pseudo scientists. Plato invented this allegory to teach about the dangers of complacency in a society that had come to believe in the mythology of its own greatness. In many ways the story of Atlantis parallels the arrogance that has dominated the political and corporate powers in the United States, and serves as a reminder that even the most impregnable societal structures can easily collapse overnight.

The collapse of the ancient Minoan civilization was, of course, the real-life basis for Plato's story, along with references to other ancient civilizations remembered from pre-history.

The Minoans were a highly sophisticated and peaceful society, with an appreciation for the arts, architecture, recreational sports, and technology that included indoor plumbing. Minoans worshiped female deities and their government was surprisingly democratic in it's views of social equality, allowing women prominent societal positions, despite a power structure ruled by a King and Priests. Their economy was based on trade and mercantilism and they mostly led lives of leisure.

Unfortunately, an active volcano was on the small island they used as their main outpost, and while the rest of the Minoan populace lived on a larger island some distance away, the distance was not enough. The volcanic blast was one of the largest natural explosions in history and when the ensuing tidal waves slammed into the smaller island, parts of the island did appear to sink, due to gaping holes left in the center that quickly filled with water.

The enormity of the blast was like an atomic explosion, and Minoans not killed by the initial shockwave or the searing gas, drowned when the tidal waves followed. The great walls of water, some towering a hundred feet, were both beautiful and terrifying to behold. Still, many Minoans who gathered away from the coast managed to survive.

Months afterwards, however, ash continued to cover everything, poisoning the agriculture and killing the livestock that subsisted on it. Many Minoans also died from the prolonged inhalation of the ash.

Needless to say, the economic collapse this caused dealt the final blow to the Minoan people, and although segments of the population carried on for a number of years, the government had lost it's sovereignty and neighboring hostile tribes began to invade, systematically destroying what was left of this once great civilization.

Kiknskreem
04-23-2012, 06:32 AM
Of course I believe in Atlantis, hell, I know Atlantis exists.

I can feel it in my pineal gland.

jf1
04-23-2012, 06:35 AM
Wasnt that where Noah docked the arc?

trollface.jpeg

A-GAME
04-23-2012, 06:41 AM
How can you say there is zero evidence? Clearly Plato's account is some evidence like we take the Bible as some evidence that a man named Jesus existed. And his point about UFO's made perfect sense. We don't have evidence really but we do have stories, conjecture, speculation, etc. Is it possible that in truth we've already been visited? Most likely. I would never say that for sure, Atlantis never existed. How would we know?

Here is a quote from a channel I found:

Atlantis is a highly debated topic in spiritual circles. Much of the information currently circulating, however, has either been heavily romanticized or distorted to serve the individual beliefs of the channel.

Atlantis never existed in the way that's often portrayed by psychics and pseudo scientists. Plato invented this allegory to teach about the dangers of complacency in a society that had come to believe in the mythology of its own greatness. In many ways the story of Atlantis parallels the arrogance that has dominated the political and corporate powers in the United States, and serves as a reminder that even the most impregnable societal structures can easily collapse overnight.

The collapse of the ancient Minoan civilization was, of course, the real-life basis for Plato's story, along with references to other ancient civilizations remembered from pre-history.

The Minoans were a highly sophisticated and peaceful society, with an appreciation for the arts, architecture, recreational sports, and technology that included indoor plumbing. Minoans worshiped female deities and their government was surprisingly democratic in it's views of social equality, allowing women prominent societal positions, despite a power structure ruled by a King and Priests. Their economy was based on trade and mercantilism and they mostly led lives of leisure.

Unfortunately, an active volcano was on the small island they used as their main outpost, and while the rest of the Minoan populace lived on a larger island some distance away, the distance was not enough. The volcanic blast was one of the largest natural explosions in history and when the ensuing tidal waves slammed into the smaller island, parts of the island did appear to sink, due to gaping holes left in the center that quickly filled with water.

The enormity of the blast was like an atomic explosion, and Minoans not killed by the initial shockwave or the searing gas, drowned when the tidal waves followed. The great walls of water, some towering a hundred feet, were both beautiful and terrifying to behold. Still, many Minoans who gathered away from the coast managed to survive.

Months afterwards, however, ash continued to cover everything, poisoning the agriculture and killing the livestock that subsisted on it. Many Minoans also died from the prolonged inhalation of the ash.

Needless to say, the economic collapse this caused dealt the final blow to the Minoan people, and although segments of the population carried on for a number of years, the government had lost it's sovereignty and neighboring hostile tribes began to invade, systematically destroying what was left of this once great civilization.


You cannot equate Atlantis with the UFO phenomenon. Atlantis has but a single reference from which all debate has followed. The UFO phenomena is real. What does that mean? Unidentified flying objects. Evidence regarding UFO's is undeniable. There are thousands of eye witnesses, data including film, photographs as well as radar tracking, soil samples etc. That is not to say they are not all military aircraft, or meteors etc, they very well may be. What they are remains to be seen, but they exist none the less. To equate the existence of a city which may or may not exist, to a phenomena which has undeniable proof is foolish to say the least. And channel? What is a channel? Elaborate.

Tamorlane
04-23-2012, 07:16 AM
You cannot equate Atlantis with the UFO phenomenon. Atlantis has but a single reference from which all debate has followed. The UFO phenomena is real. What does that mean? Unidentified flying objects. Evidence regarding UFO's is undeniable. There are thousands of eye witnesses, data including film, photographs as well as radar tracking, soil samples etc. That is not to say they are not all military aircraft, or meteors etc, they very well may be. What they are remains to be seen, but they exist none the less. To equate the existence of a city which may or may not exist, to a phenomena which has undeniable proof is foolish to say the least. And channel? What is a channel? Elaborate.

An unidentified flying object...but to whom? Is a specialized military air vehicle considered a UFO to the general public who may witness part of it's test flight?

The Fermi Paradox states that as far as our technology allows us to see, no matter how many signals and messages we shoot into space, it comes back empty. I'm not saying I don't believe in alien life forms, because I do, but i'm saying they should be held with the same amount of skepticism because we don't have that proof that we can tangibly see for ourselves, only make connections at this point.

For all those 'eye wtinesses, film, radar tracking, etc' could all be gov't test flights, even just to gauge public reaction to the spotting....

And a channel is a form of mediumship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumship#Channeling

Many ancient texts or knowledge comes from a single or small source, but we hold onto them as a means to preserve these works. Examples are the writing of Jesus mainly in the Bible alone, writings of Socrates by his student Plato, Aristotle and Aristophenes, the story of the Buddha and his enlightenment (passed down for 500 years via word-of-mouth).

Kiknskreem
04-23-2012, 07:18 AM
An unidentified flying object...but to whom?

To any observer of said object... duh.

JWaldGar
04-23-2012, 07:27 AM
Of course I do, I watched the documentary about atlantis

http://imagenes.subadictos.net/afiche/8570.jpg

Tamorlane
04-23-2012, 07:49 AM
Of course I believe in Atlantis, hell, I know Atlantis exists.

I can feel it in my pineal gland.

http://julianlytle.com/images/U%20Mad%20folder/OJ%20U%20mad.jpg



Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. -The Buddha

NiceBoat
04-23-2012, 07:51 AM
How can you say there is zero evidence? Clearly Plato's account is some evidence like we take the Bible as some evidence that a man named Jesus existed. And his point about UFO's made perfect sense. We don't have evidence really but we do have stories, conjecture, speculation, etc. Is it possible that in truth we've already been visited? Most likely. I would never say that for sure, Atlantis never existed. How would we know?

Here is a quote from a channel I found:

Atlantis is a highly debated topic in spiritual circles. Much of the information currently circulating, however, has either been heavily romanticized or distorted to serve the individual beliefs of the channel.

Atlantis never existed in the way that's often portrayed by psychics and pseudo scientists. Plato invented this allegory to teach about the dangers of complacency in a society that had come to believe in the mythology of its own greatness. In many ways the story of Atlantis parallels the arrogance that has dominated the political and corporate powers in the United States, and serves as a reminder that even the most impregnable societal structures can easily collapse overnight.

The collapse of the ancient Minoan civilization was, of course, the real-life basis for Plato's story, along with references to other ancient civilizations remembered from pre-history.

The Minoans were a highly sophisticated and peaceful society, with an appreciation for the arts, architecture, recreational sports, and technology that included indoor plumbing. Minoans worshiped female deities and their government was surprisingly democratic in it's views of social equality, allowing women prominent societal positions, despite a power structure ruled by a King and Priests. Their economy was based on trade and mercantilism and they mostly led lives of leisure.

Unfortunately, an active volcano was on the small island they used as their main outpost, and while the rest of the Minoan populace lived on a larger island some distance away, the distance was not enough. The volcanic blast was one of the largest natural explosions in history and when the ensuing tidal waves slammed into the smaller island, parts of the island did appear to sink, due to gaping holes left in the center that quickly filled with water.

The enormity of the blast was like an atomic explosion, and Minoans not killed by the initial shockwave or the searing gas, drowned when the tidal waves followed. The great walls of water, some towering a hundred feet, were both beautiful and terrifying to behold. Still, many Minoans who gathered away from the coast managed to survive.

Months afterwards, however, ash continued to cover everything, poisoning the agriculture and killing the livestock that subsisted on it. Many Minoans also died from the prolonged inhalation of the ash.

Needless to say, the economic collapse this caused dealt the final blow to the Minoan people, and although segments of the population carried on for a number of years, the government had lost it's sovereignty and neighboring hostile tribes began to invade, systematically destroying what was left of this once great civilization.

It isn't exactly the same as the jesus bible thing. If he was just using an old tale, or making up a new land in an allegorical or metaphorical sense it isn't in any way an implication it existed. We are pretty sure thats how he meant it. However with the gospel accounts of christ, those are supposedly records of the man's travels as remembered by his followers. This is quite different as there is no allegory, there is no metaphor. I would imagine if a place such as Atlantis existed, it was advanced for its time, was maybe a colony of someone in a remote location and just had a person like Archimedes that could propel them forward in ways other cities couldn't, yet still met an end due to natural disasters.

However this takes faith. I don't think it ever existed, however I won't say I am certain it never existed.

Tamorlane
04-23-2012, 07:52 AM
It isn't exactly the same as the jesus bible thing. If he was just using an old tale, or making up a new land in an allegorical or metaphorical sense it isn't in any way an implication it existed. We are pretty sure thats how he meant it. However with the gospel accounts of christ, those are supposedly records of the man's travels as remembered by his followers. This is quite different as there is no allegory, there is no metaphor. I would imagine if a place such as Atlantis existed, it was advanced for its time, was maybe a colony of someone in a remote location and just had a person like Archimedes that could propel them forward in ways other cities couldn't, yet still met an end due to natural disasters.

However this takes faith. I don't think it ever existed, however I won't say I am certain it never existed.

Can't argue with this :D good post