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docmansound
02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
I've been bulking about 2 months and my upper body is responding much better than my lower body. I do an upper body day and a lower body day, and doing each 2X per week. I am now changing to hitting everything twice every 10 days instead of 7, because I didn't feel I was getting enough recovery time.

I believe I am working against genetics. My legs are fairly defined, but skinny. I used to do endurance bike riding. At work I am on my feet a lot.

Squats and leg press are the foundation of my leg work out. I always do at least 3 sets of squats x 6-10 reps with one set to failure or form failure, and 2 sets of leg press (6-10 reps) to failure. I also do extensions and leg curls every time, usually 2 or 3 sets to failure. I then throw in either walking or smith machine lunges and either SLDL or glute ham raises.


It hurts like hell and sometimes I almost puke (especially on the leg press). BTW my squats are relatively weak as compared to my bench (PR squats 10 reps of 185 lb and bench 6 reps of 170).

My legs HAVE been getting stronger but I can't measure any real size difference on my legs, and in the mirror they look almost the same. I am eating a lot (2700-3000 cal) and my body weight is up 10 lb in 2 months.

So I probably just need to keep pushing up the weight and stick with it? Be patient?

KGiron
02-08-2012, 01:53 PM
1 I would give it more time
2 after another 1-2 months try some different squats ie. sumo stance, or narrow, I even like putting too much weight on the bar and doing 1/2 or 1/4 squats to shock the system some times.

my .02 cents

trev71
02-08-2012, 08:13 PM
Looks to me that you may be a little light on the sets. Rep range looks ok, as does the overall exercises...

Shoot for 4 sets... where your doing 2 or 3...

Track your workouts, the weights, the reps and challenge yourself every time you get in there to add reps and/or weight.

freebirdmac
02-08-2012, 08:42 PM
Progress on legs can be really slow. Have you measured right before and after a workout? You should at least be getting a pump. It may be quickly deflated by being on your feet a lot at work. But it's the pump that at least makes us feel like we are growing. Realistically though true muscle gains sans pump and fat could be as little as 1/4" a year. Genetics can really suck.

Meatpants
02-08-2012, 08:54 PM
I've been bulking about 2 months and my upper body is responding much better than my lower body. I do an upper body day and a lower body day, and doing each 2X per week. I am now changing to hitting everything twice every 10 days instead of 7, because I didn't feel I was getting enough recovery time.

I believe I am working against genetics. My legs are fairly defined, but skinny. I used to do endurance bike riding. At work I am on my feet a lot.

Squats and leg press are the foundation of my leg work out. I always do at least 3 sets of squats x 6-10 reps with one set to failure or form failure, and 2 sets of leg press (6-10 reps) to failure. I also do extensions and leg curls every time, usually 2 or 3 sets to failure. I then throw in either walking or smith machine lunges and either SLDL or glute ham raises.


It hurts like hell and sometimes I almost puke (especially on the leg press). BTW my squats are relatively weak as compared to my bench (PR squats 10 reps of 185 lb and bench 6 reps of 170).

My legs HAVE been getting stronger but I can't measure any real size difference on my legs, and in the mirror they look almost the same. I am eating a lot (2700-3000 cal) and my body weight is up 10 lb in 2 months.

So I probably just need to keep pushing up the weight and stick with it? Be patient?

Its good to see you listening to your body, and adjusting your routine. It seems different routines and volumes work differently for everyone. Try some variations, and see what it brings. I like to vary it up with weight and volume.

Ex:
Leg Press - x4 - 12-14 reps.
Squats Front - x3 - 6-10 reps
Squats Back - x3 - 8-12 reps
Leg Ext - x3 - 8-12 reps

Dencio
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Progress on legs can be really slow. Have you measured right before and after a workout? You should at least be getting a pump. It may be quickly deflated by being on your feet a lot at work. But it's the pump that at least makes us feel like we are growing. Realistically though true muscle gains sans pump and fat could be as little as 1/4" a year. Genetics can really suck.
+1
I see intermediate and advanced squatters...guess what....they have skinny legs..one of em doin it for 10+ years (football training) and now just to keep fit...sorta coz he's legs are still long bball legs.
I know JP mentioned this during his comp meet ups...in my case my legs are slow growing. Oh well

docmansound
02-09-2012, 12:40 AM
Progress on legs can be really slow. Have you measured right before and after a workout? You should at least be getting a pump. It may be quickly deflated by being on your feet a lot at work. But it's the pump that at least makes us feel like we are growing. Realistically though true muscle gains sans pump and fat could be as little as 1/4" a year. Genetics can really suck.
They definitely look more pumped right after a work out -- I haven't measured after lifting but they look bigger than they used to look. Measuring them relaxed, though, they are about the same as they were 2 months ago. I think I might add some volume for each work out; add a day of rest, keep eating and prepare to wait. Getting them the size I want is probably going to take a couple years...

BloodySalad
02-09-2012, 03:37 AM
@OP. If your squats are weak, what about throwing in some deadlifts into your program?

MichaelCJ
02-09-2012, 04:27 AM
Are you adding weight to your squat every workout? Even just a bit (as in, 1.25kg plates or the like)? If not, you should probably try to. Progression is key, with any decent strength- and/or size-building routine. It will be hard, if you're not used to doing it, but it does pay off. In fact, you might just want to switch to a proven novice routine, that will have progresion built in from the get-go.

I agree that deadlifts are an excellent idea, regardless. Actually, no matter what else you are or are not doing. :D Gotta love 'em.

freebirdmac
02-09-2012, 04:31 AM
Maybe you should look into Layne Norton's PHAT routine. I and others have used his principles with success.

ezra76
02-09-2012, 04:59 AM
As someone suggested, I'd consider adding deadlifts to your workout as well. Also my opinion is that you should save your energy and do more squats. I've seen my best gains by doing 5 sets of 5 squats. I use the same weight and it's tough on the 1st set and a near death experience on the last rep of set 5.

I wouldn't worry about weight so much. I also just about bench my squat. It's all about form with squats.

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 07:06 AM
There are several factors that are vital for growth. Failing to the meet one of these requirements will cause growth to cease.

1. Adequate intake. At your body fat level, eating at a maintenance level will do you little good. A small surplus would is advised, and gaining between 2-4 pounds a month will ensure minimum fat gain.

2. Progressive resistance. In order to gain muscle, not only is adequate intensity needed, but more importantly continually applying more effort in every workout is needed.

3. Rest (speak for itself).

4. Patience, this doesn't happen in two months.



Re - evaluate your program. Post it here in it's entirety for a critique.
Journal your intake and increase intake as needed to increase mass.
Give it some time.

docmansound
02-09-2012, 08:12 AM
Thanks all for your great suggestions. I DO make sure my lifts are going up and I have been beating my PRs on squat and leg press. The legs just aren't growing much.

On upper body I haven't been beating PRs for a couple weeks and don't feel recovered when I lift but my legs seem to recover faster - so I will add more sets to the leg days and take an extra rest day.

I do deadlifts on upper body day and I am slowly pushing up the weight. I feel them mostly in my low back though.

I am definitely eating enough - I've gained about 9 lb in 2 months (and I can still see my abs).

Thanks again everyone this was helpful for me. I WILL not give up this time. Once my squat is 300 they will HAVE to be bigger !!

dday39
02-09-2012, 08:32 AM
it seems like your program might be the problem. you need to get stronger.

with Starting Strength or StrongLifts, you could've started with the empty bar adding 10lbs per session (on squats) and you'd easily be pushing a 200lbs squat at this point

if you aren't recovering, I'd look at program as well as diet

docmansound
02-09-2012, 09:46 AM
it seems like your program might be the problem. you need to get stronger.

with Starting Strength or StrongLifts, you could've started with the empty bar adding 10lbs per session (on squats) and you'd easily be pushing a 200lbs squat at this point

if you aren't recovering, I'd look at program as well as diet

Thanks for the suggestion but if you don't know where I started how can you say I'd be lifting 200 by now? Anyway-My 1RM is over 200 since I can squat 185 to parallel x 10. I have increased strength by 30% in 4 months (I started with AllPros Beginner Program doing 135x10 about 4 months ago).

Keep in mind my weight was 144 two months ago! 185x10 ain't bad :)

My understanding is SS is geared toward strength not size.

I am making strength gains - my concern is I am not putting on size.

Also one thing I know is that my SI joint doesn't like deadlifts and squats 3x per week!

dday39
02-09-2012, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the suggestion but if you don't know where I started how can you say I'd be lifting 200 by now? I gave an example of starting with the empty bar. Good reading


Keep in mind my weight was 144 two months ago! 185x10 ain't bad :) Yes it is bad. What's your 1RM? (nevermind, you aren't strong)


My understanding is SS is geared toward strength not size. Calorie surplus is what adds size. Getting stronger (for naturals) goes with getting bigger


I am making strength gains - my concern is I am not putting on size. You aren't eating enough


Also one thing I know is that my SI joint doesn't like deadlifts and squats 3x per week! sounds like you've got enough excuses lined up so that you don't make any gains

OutOfStep
02-09-2012, 10:14 AM
I gave an example of starting with the empty bar. Good reading

Yes it is bad. What's your 1RM? (nevermind, you aren't strong)

Calorie surplus is what adds size. Getting stronger (for naturals) goes with getting bigger

You aren't eating enough

sounds like you've got enough excuses lined up so that you don't make any gains

He's gained 10 lbs in 2 months. Maybe you're the one who should learn to read. Why not post up a picture of yourself, Mr. 160 lb bodybuilding expert, so we can see the kind of results you've gotten with all this wisdom.

ironwill2008
02-09-2012, 10:22 AM
I've been bulking about 2 months .....

......my body weight is up 10 lb in 2 months.

So I probably just need to keep pushing up the weight and stick with it? Be patient?


That's a good amount of weight gain for that time period.

Two months is a relatively short time to expect to see a lot of difference in such a large muscle group; give it more time, and consider the bolded, above.

dday39
02-09-2012, 10:44 AM
He's gained 10 lbs in 2 months. Maybe you're the one who should learn to read. Why not post up a picture of yourself, Mr. 160 lb bodybuilding expert, so we can see the kind of results you've gotten with all this wisdom.

where did I claim to be an expert on anything?
which piece of advice did I give that is wrong?

I haven't been able to train consistently lately (doing home improvements), but I weigh more than OP and can out lift him. WTF do you care? See my goals, I'm working on those.

docmansound
02-09-2012, 11:05 AM
Hey thanks ALL --Reps on recharge!

DocTats
02-09-2012, 11:15 AM
I believe I am working against genetics. My legs are fairly defined, but skinny. I used to do endurance bike riding. At work I am on my feet a lot.

Question...did you do much hill cycling? Those are ass kicking leg workouts, some of those cyclists have big legs. Back when I rode the bike, since I'm clueless about working the gears to make hills easier, I got just as much a leg burn from cycling up hills as I did squats and leg presses. Maybe you need to do some higher rep leg work, some people seem to respond better to that.

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 11:24 AM
where did I claim to be an expert on anything?
which piece of advice did I give that is wrong?You were a dick and telling someone they are weak when they have made obvious gains. The guys looking for help, not asinine remarks.


I haven't been able to train consistently lately (doing home improvements), but I weigh more than OP and can out lift him. WTF do you care? See my goals, I'm working on those.Who cares how much more YOU lift than the OP?

Nice to see YOU have excuses, just as you accused the OP... Try posting up a pic and showing were you are at. At least the OP has the balls to post a pic. Not only that, but at least the OP is actually lifting and progressing.

dday39
02-09-2012, 11:37 AM
You were a dick and telling someone they are weak when they have made obvious gains. They guys looking for help, not assnine remarks. my first post on this thread was sincere and decent advice. He didn't even read it entirely and went all smarta$$. He doesn't want advice, he wants someone to tell him 'it ok'


Who cares how much more YOU lift than the OP? apparently, you and the other a$$ who came to OP's aid and then asked about my progress.


Nice to see YOU have excuses, just as you accused the OP... Try posting up a pic and showing were you are at. At least the OP has the balls to post a pic. Not only that, but at least the OP is actually lifting and progressing. This thread isn't about me. However, now you and outofstep have derailed it and made it so.

I can also out lift you.

MikeNX
02-09-2012, 12:17 PM
Chris Aceto - Championship Body building. After 2 years of minimal gains a guy at my gym recommended I have a read. I would like to pass this advice along to you as I really feel it has helped me focus my workouts, and improve my form. Best of luck.

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 12:36 PM
my first post on this thread was sincere and decent advice. He didn't even read it entirely and went all smarta$$. He doesn't want advice, he wants someone to tell him 'it ok'

apparently, you and the other a$$ who came to OP's aid and then asked about my progress.

This thread isn't about me. However, now you and outofstep have derailed it and made it so.

I can also out lift you.I never asked about your progress so wtf are you talking about? Others gave close to the same advice you gave without telling the OP he's weak and that your stronger.

Get over yourself and your obviously inflated ego.

Again, who gives a flying **** WHO you outlift? All I see is a bunch b*tch e-stating. Even if you can OUT lift me... that doesn't mean jack OR sh*t. My lifting is about me improving myself, not comparing myself to an a**hole.

OutOfStep
02-09-2012, 12:50 PM
where did I claim to be an expert on anything?
which piece of advice did I give that is wrong?

I haven't been able to train consistently lately (doing home improvements), but I weigh more than OP and can out lift him. WTF do you care? See my goals, I'm working on those.

Just like I thought, another keyboard warrior who doesn't even train. As if this board needed another wannabe.

The op is a new lifter with a legit question and all you did was act like a little dickhead toward him. Take your ****ing clown act elsewhere.

ArchAngel'73
02-09-2012, 12:52 PM
My lifting is about me improving myself, not comparing myself to an a**hole.

Props to you.
srs

Its pretty safe to assume that any one without an AVI that says that kinda sh*t has nothing to back it up IRL.

I have met an seen enough "strong men" irl and bb.com that in many cases their physical prowess compensates for being on the bottom end of the Bell Curve and the evolutionary chain where personailty and brains are concerned.

hlydon
02-09-2012, 12:53 PM
OP, your post sounds like you are describing me. I have naturally small legs, but now they are okay. I didn't do bike riding but I did run a lot for years. Now I don't run much. I do five sets on squats and then five sets on leg press. I started seriously lifting about two and half years ago. I also do an upper/lower body split. One thing I had to do was eat a lot more (especially protein) and another thing was not worry about body fat. You can't get a lot stronger if you don't grow. I'm sure your squats will improve dramatically over time. Two and half years in and I just did 6 legit reps of 330. Give it time.

themyth2009
02-09-2012, 01:06 PM
You were a dick and telling someone they are weak when they have made obvious gains. The guys looking for help, not asinine remarks.

Who cares how much more YOU lift than the OP?

Nice to see YOU have excuses, just as you accused the OP... Try posting up a pic and showing were you are at. At least the OP has the balls to post a pic. Not only that, but at least the OP is actually lifting and progressing.

Agree guy was being a dick just because he did not like his advice.

ArchAngel'73
02-09-2012, 02:55 PM
blah blah blah

Thanks for the PM di*ckhead, to myself, OutofStep, and acrawlingchaos.

Like I really wanted to hear from a manlet wannabe hiding behind a monitor.
:rolleyes:

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the PM di*ckhead, to myself, OutofStep, and acrawlingchaos.

Like I really wanted to hear from a manlet wannabe hiding behind a monitor.
:rolleyes:

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/funny-dog-pictures-you-know-what-i-aint-even-mad.jpg

themyth2009
02-09-2012, 03:59 PM
Thanks for the PM di*ckhead, to myself, OutofStep, and acrawlingchaos.

Like I really wanted to hear from a manlet wannabe hiding behind a monitor.
:rolleyes:

I dont think 5 9 is a manlet :)

ArchAngel'73
02-09-2012, 04:11 PM
I dont think 5 9 is a manlet :)

160 lbs. is. ;)

themyth2009
02-09-2012, 04:21 PM
160 lbs. is. ;)

Yeah but can you out lift him? I am sure he is tossing around some pretty impressive amounts.

ntrllftr
02-09-2012, 04:35 PM
Yeah but can you out lift him? I am sure he is tossing around some pretty impressive amounts.

<<< Manlet comin in to show how this liftin shyt is DONE!!!!

FFFUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!











:p

grumpytude
02-09-2012, 04:40 PM
I would probably drop the leg extensions for now and concentrate on just the basics, squats first and then leg presses. I would also try adding a few more sets to each. GHR's are good for the hamstrings and canhelp with strength gains too- but I would also try some stiff legged & Romanian deadlifts for hammies. Also give dead lifts a chance- they really do help in overall strength & size gains. Just keep trying to increase your weights-no matter how small and eat food- alot of it. Progress can be slow at times for alot of people-but keep plugging away.

themyth2009
02-09-2012, 04:46 PM
<<< Manlet comin in to show how this liftin shyt is DONE!!!!

FFFUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!











:p


You bench ROM needs work. lolz

CaptChip40
02-09-2012, 04:46 PM
I dont think 5 9 is a manlet :)


Me either :)

ntrllftr
02-09-2012, 04:50 PM
You bench ROM needs work. lolz

Damn stubby arms. :(

ironwill2008
02-09-2012, 04:51 PM
Damn stubby arms. :(

Elbows too pointy, too.













(braces for "geezer" comeback)

ntrllftr
02-09-2012, 05:08 PM
Elbows too pointy, too.

(braces for "geezer" comeback)

I'ma bulkin bro. These elbows are lookin like a baked ham. (wutever the f#$k that means)

This troll haz better comebacks than that you knucklehead!


:D

pvsampson
02-09-2012, 05:08 PM
popcorn.gif

ironwill2008
02-09-2012, 05:21 PM
I'ma bulkin bro. These elbows are lookin like a baked ham. (wutever the f#$k that means)

This troll haz better comebacks than that you knucklehead!


:D

Lulz @ Baked Ham! :D

docmansound
02-09-2012, 07:55 PM
Question...did you do much hill cycling? Those are ass kicking leg workouts, some of those cyclists have big legs. Back when I rode the bike, since I'm clueless about working the gears to make hills easier, I got just as much a leg burn from cycling up hills as I did squats and leg presses. Maybe you need to do some higher rep leg work, some people seem to respond better to that.

Yeah man I live in the mountains and for 3 years I was riding 100+ miles per week (except in winter) - training for century rides several times per year with 10,000 + feet of climbing.
Maybe I do need more volume to shock Em!

flat6nut
02-09-2012, 08:33 PM
where did I claim to be an expert on anything?
which piece of advice did I give that is wrong?

I haven't been able to train consistently lately (doing home improvements), but I weigh more than OP and can out lift him. WTF do you care? See my goals, I'm working on those.


Your an inch taller and only 5 lbs heavier...with the same stats...if you were the same height...he would be 5 lbs heavier then you.

Just say'n ;)

v1rt
02-09-2012, 09:38 PM
There are several factors that are vital for growth. Failing to the meet one of these requirements will cause growth to cease.

1. Adequate intake. At your body fat level, eating at a maintenance level will do you little good. A small surplus would is advised, and gaining between 2-4 pounds a month will ensure minimum fat gain.


I've seen the term surplus on some threads and now from your post. What is it?

docmansound
02-09-2012, 09:51 PM
I've seen the term surplus on some threads and now from your post. What is it?

Surplus calories above maintainance.

cowboybiker
02-09-2012, 10:25 PM
ITT Manlets gone wild.

taylor9569
02-10-2012, 01:55 AM
ITT Manlets gone wild.


At last a normal size person ITT :D :D :D




































































Edit: don't neg me manlets :(




























































:p

dday39
02-10-2012, 06:14 AM
if you were the same height...he would be 5 lbs heavier then you.

Just say'n ;)

but we're not and he's not

just sayin

docmansound
02-10-2012, 06:45 AM
Thank you all for your valuable input.

nlsecor
02-11-2012, 09:27 AM
Your legs are growing. 60 more days, 8 more pounds and you will notice. Just keep it all lean and you will be happy. Remember, the rest of you will be bigger also, so the proportion will remain the same.

Thanks all for your great suggestions. I DO make sure my lifts are going up and I have been beating my PRs on squat and leg press. The legs just aren't growing much.

On upper body I haven't been beating PRs for a couple weeks and don't feel recovered when I lift but my legs seem to recover faster - so I will add more sets to the leg days and take an extra rest day.

I do deadlifts on upper body day and I am slowly pushing up the weight. I feel them mostly in my low back though.

I am definitely eating enough - I've gained about 9 lb in 2 months (and I can still see my abs).

Thanks again everyone this was helpful for me. I WILL not give up this time. Once my squat is 300 they will HAVE to be bigger !!