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Marius_Ursus
02-08-2012, 07:20 AM
John G's thread about getting the pump during training had me thinking a couple of things, and I'd like some opinions or facts if they're available.

Does the pump that comes from increased blood flow during training result in faster size and/or strength gains to an appreciable amount?

CardinalRB34
02-08-2012, 07:37 AM
I believe that variety is key. But I will say that when I left my ego at the door and stopped lifting insanely heavy all the time... my progress ramped up as I started to lift for more reps. I personally like some of the FST7 concepts of Hany. In a nutshell - the first couple exercises are about breaking down the muscle with heavier weights, then the last exercise is all about blood flow and blood volume in the muscle. The theory with more blood flow is more nutrients driven into the muscle which theoretically will cause greater hypertrophy. It seems to work. Last year when incorporating some exercises where I focused on blood volume... I've achieved the biggest and fullest look I have ever had.

Kraken
02-08-2012, 07:49 AM
I don't believe that a pump is any indication of all for growth or strength. I believe it to be a big fat myth. I look at it like this. I would get more of a pump if I did 3 sets of 20 reps on bench than if I did 4 sets of 10, but will I spur more strength and growth on 20 reps? Many will argue no, yet still contradict that and say a good pump is necessary. In fact, i can also get a pump from one set of curls, but I still continue passed that first set.

tsoden
02-08-2012, 07:51 AM
Personally I feel a pump is just that... a wonderful feeling... endorphines and such...

Anyway, according to these guys its not... but do they really know what they are talking about? They have come a long way, but sometimes I wonder about their advice...if anything the video is kinda funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMpGocq9cQk&feature=g-u-u&context=G28702ffFUAAAAAAAJAA

billb7581
02-08-2012, 07:53 AM
I don't know if it's technically the "pump". But when I am done working out it almost feels like my muscles are pushing against the inside of my skin.. it's weird. I dont look any different, but I did have a vein sighting once in my shoulder arm area.

Kraken
02-08-2012, 07:57 AM
Personally I feel a pump is just that... a wonderful feeling... endorphines and such...

Anyway, according to these guys its not... but do they really know what they are talking about? They have come a long way, but sometimes I wonder about their advice...if anything the video is kinda funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMpGocq9cQk&feature=g-u-u&context=G28702ffFUAAAAAAAJAA

lol They are at least entertaining. They are right though.

Viagra actually has been shown to be a performance enhancer during exercise, especially at high atlitudes, which is why it's now banned by the Olympics. This is a REAL vesodilator, unlike the stuff from the shelf.

ironwill2008
02-08-2012, 07:57 AM
While a 'pump' can be an indicator of positve things happening, prediction of future mass/strength increase isn't one of them.

I can get a massive pump in my biceps by doing high-rep sets of Dumbbell curls with 5 pound 'bells, but I know from past practice that it won't make my biceps grow.

As far as increasing "blood flow," I can do that by running around the block a couple of times. Again, no real increase in mass/strength will come of it.


Progression is the engine that drives growth. Working to increase the weight and/or reps lifted with good form on a consistent basis is the key to increases in mass/strength.

billb7581
02-08-2012, 08:17 AM
Hey Will... just curious, what type of program did you do starting out?

The reason I ask is my parents are avid gym goers, but I am not sure they are getting the best bang for their buck with the typical "old person" routine.. no offense, you know what I mean.

CardinalRB34
02-08-2012, 08:17 AM
Arnold was an addict for the "PUMP"... but with that being said - Arnold lifted some heavy @SS weights too. I think breaking down the muscle is paramount and blood volume is secondary. The method on how you achieve your pumps will also play key. Like mentioned above - it's almost pointless to lift 5 pounds a bazillion times to achieve a pump. My preferred method of achieving a desired pump is with shorter rest between sets toward the end of a workout. And those sets usually consist of 6-10 reps per sets.

ironwill2008
02-08-2012, 08:31 AM
Hey Will... just curious, what type of program did you do starting out?

The reason I ask is my parents are avid gym goers, but I am not sure they are getting the best bang for their buck with the typical "old person" routine.. no offense, you know what I mean.

I did a Full Body "program" that I put together based on what I was able to learn from a few books I read at the library.


No offense taken; I understand where you're coming from. :)

OutOfStep
02-08-2012, 09:14 AM
Personally I feel a pump is just that... a wonderful feeling... endorphines and such...

Anyway, according to these guys its not... but do they really know what they are talking about? They have come a long way, but sometimes I wonder about their advice...if anything the video is kinda funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMpGocq9cQk&feature=g-u-u&context=G28702ffFUAAAAAAAJAA

Lmao I've watched a few videos from these guys and they are ****ing hilarious.

bigtallox
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Does the pump that comes from increased blood flow during training result in faster size and/or strength gains to an appreciable amount?

The pump doesn't result in faster size/strength gains. However, the pump can help aid in recovery, that's why I have active recovery sessions.

billb7581
02-08-2012, 09:26 AM
I did a Full Body "program" that I put together based on what I was able to learn from a few books I read at the library.


No offense taken; I understand where you're coming from. :)


I am going to see what they are doing, it's mostly machine work, but I think they need a plan, something like the rep/weight progression in all pros routine. They've been going to the gym for years, my father should be jacked by now LOL. They are both in phenominal shape aerobically, they walk all the time, but I fear they are getting skinny fat.

ironwill2008
02-08-2012, 09:52 AM
I am going to see what they are doing, it's mostly machine work, but I think they need a plan, something like the rep/weight progression in all pros routine. They've been going to the gym for years, my father should be jacked by now LOL. They are both in phenominal shape aerobically, they walk all the time, but I fear they are getting skinny fat.

If they don't have any medical limitations, there's no reason they can't both start on AllPro's program. That's the true beauty of weight training---it can be scaled to any person simply by using very light starting loads, keeping the focus on using good form, and then allowing them to progress at their own pace.

billb7581
02-08-2012, 10:29 AM
Squats may be a no go with my dad, he's got a long way to go down at 6'7" LOL. My mom is actually more intense and would like doing them I bet.

JOHN GARGANI
02-08-2012, 12:49 PM
I have read endless research articles on the pump....

of course it is necessary!

it is a NORMAL PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTION......and should be...

why wouldn't you want blood rushing into an area that you just pounded like that??

the Circulatory system is what makes it all happen: if you can't get waste products OUT and rebuilding products IN, there is NO recuperation from any type of inflammation in the body.


is a pump a "Guarantee"? why of course not, because , as pointed out, one can achieve a pump so readily easily, and most of us already have it after the first warm up set.

but it is the first physiological reaction of the body to bodybuilding styled training, and gets you going in the right direction.

Is the "anabolic window" completely necessary? NO...but similarly, what is it? THE FIRST NUTRITIONAL STEP TOWARDS COMPENSATION.....

the first is the first..period.....but everything else is equally important....it is a collective, if you will...

minimizing one , or glorifying one, over the other, is foolish and counterproductive.

JOHN GARGANI
02-08-2012, 12:59 PM
you see: people must grasp the CONCEPT of bodybuilding: we are asking the body to do something that it doesn't want to!!!!

as a man grows up, and through normal maturation, and activity, and genetics, he WILL, over the course of a lifetime add lean tissue....

but the body does NOT want 19 inch arms....or 30 inch thighs, or 52 inch expanded chests, or whatever......

Why??

the body wants STASIS, and gradual maturation, over long periods of time, re: a lifetime...

it is WE, WE: that want those other things! So right from the get go, we must sort of DICTATE to our bodies: basically, we want what the body considers EXCESS: and in the tradition of fighting fire with fire, we use a salvo of equal excess:

excess working out....excess protein.....oh, I could on and on.....

Each and every facet, each and every PIECE OF THE PUZZLE, is important!

none are less or more......the word I used in my last post: A COLLECTIVE......

While some may foolishly argue the relative merits of all the pieces of the puzzle, the Wise man is too busy employing them all!!!

Kraken
02-08-2012, 01:15 PM
I have read endless research articles on the pump....

of course it is necessary!

it is a NORMAL PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTION......and should be...

why wouldn't you want blood rushing into an area that you just pounded like that??

the Circulatory system is what makes it all happen: if you can't get waste products OUT and rebuilding products IN, there is NO recuperation from any type of inflammation in the body.


is a pump a "Guarantee"? why of course not, because , as pointed out, one can achieve a pump so readily easily, and most of us already have it after the first warm up set.

but it is the first physiological reaction of the body to bodybuilding styled training, and gets you going in the right direction.

Is the "anabolic window" completely necessary? NO...but similarly, what is it? THE FIRST NUTRITIONAL STEP TOWARDS COMPENSATION.....

the first is the first..period.....but everything else is equally important....it is a collective, if you will...

minimizing one , or glorifying one, over the other, is foolish and counterproductive.

The question was "Does the pump that comes from increased blood flow during training result in faster size and/or strength gains to an appreciable amount?", in case you missed that.

You answered the question "Is a pump necessary for normal biological function".

Something can be necessary to sustain life, but not be necessary to improve strength.

induced_drag
02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
The pump is associated with sarcoplamic hypertrophy. So yes....it contributes to muscular growth. That being said, I have heard different ratios, but the consensus is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy only makes up about 10% of the growth seen in a bodybuilder. The remaining 90% being myofibrillar.

So not doing any pump type training is definitely leaving some growth on the table....but I also believe that it is not something I put a lot of time into either. For me, the majority of my effort is placed in moving heavy things for 5-10 reps....and then I finish off with a little pump type work.


Here is a great example of the physique that is built with a foundation of myofibrillar hypertrophy. This is Dave Gulledge. He is a power lifter. The first pic is his normal weight at 320lbs. Second pic is his cut to 265. Very little pump work I am sure went in to building this physique. Although he freely admits to the "supplementation" protocol he followed. ;) Very impressive regardless.

https://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/6/1//61684-Dave_Gulledge_powerlifting.jpg



http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/1/1/.1122151094030.DSCN0115.JPG

Kraken
02-08-2012, 01:25 PM
The pump is associated with sarcoplamic hypertrophy. So yes....it contributes to muscular growth. That being said, I have heard different ratios, but the consensus is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy only makes up about 10% of the growth seen in a bodybuilder. The remaining 90% being myofibrillar.

So not doing any pump type training is definitely leaving some growth on the table....but I also believe that it is not something I put a lot of time into either. For me, the majority of my effort is placed in moving heavy things for 5-10 reps....and then I finish off with a little pump type work.

I don't believe it's possible to workout and not get any pump at all though. I think what Marc was after is, should we be chasing that pump. I say no, it's simply a natural result of training.

BTW, gratz on 18 inches! (Does that sound bad if we weren't on the topic of your arm size? lol) The avatar looks sick.

tobymax123
02-08-2012, 04:39 PM
I don't know about the physiology, but psychologically, I think yes -- the pump helps you gain size. Crazy? I once read that the way you look with a good pump is how you will look within "x" months time if you keep working out and improving at the same pace, and I've found that to be true. The way my upper body looks now is about how it used to look when I had a full-on pump a couple years ago, and perhaps visualizing it that way with a pump was a motivational factor to help me get there.

Most guys say knocking out high reps with light weights gives them a good pump, but I get my most crazy ass pumps when I lift heavier in the 8-12 rep range. I'm pretty lean and vascular at the moment (more so than in my bodyspace pics), so an intense upper body workout causes almost grotesque vascularity in my arms and shoulders. I'm starting to see some veins in the upper pecs too. I don't aspire to be that lean and veiny all the time, so after my beach vacation next month I'll probably let myself put on some weight, but for now it's kinda fun.

bigtallox
02-08-2012, 04:50 PM
I once read that the way you look with a good pump is how you will look within "x" months time if you keep working out and improving at the same pace, and I've found that to be true.


Well, you can read pretty much anything. Looking the same now without a pump, as you did 'x' months before pumped up, says nothing about the pump increasing muscle growth, it's more a definition of what 'x' could possibly be.


Most guys say knocking out high reps with light weights gives them a good pump, but I get my most crazy ass pumps when I lift heavier in the 8-12 rep range.

If you're lifting in the 8-12 rep range, then it's by definition light in my book.

jor012
02-08-2012, 05:08 PM
i don't believe that a pump is any indication of all for growth or strength. I believe it to be a big fat myth. I look at it like this. I would get more of a pump if i did 3 sets of 20 reps on bench than if i did 4 sets of 10, but will i spur more strength and growth on 20 reps? Many will argue no, yet still contradict that and say a good pump is necessary. In fact, i can also get a pump from one set of curls, but i still continue passed that first set.
^^that^^

Tommy W.
02-08-2012, 08:08 PM
The pump is a temporary high. Working for the pump at the expense of longer term progress (more than a few hours) is not optimum for overall results

BloodySalad
02-09-2012, 06:07 AM
I don't specifically go looking for it (I get it anway even in a low range of reps) but I know I look better when I'm pumped and therefore I feel better. Doesn't matter if there's anyone watching or not (and as I train at home on my own, it's usually not), a good pump alsp makes me feel like I'm getting results. Doesn't matter if they're huge or not - the very fact that I'm getting a pump shows that training is making a difference.
Aside from any physical advantages that there may be, that's a huge psychological boost and it certainly works as a motivator.
Take that a step further and I look at it in the light that a good psychological outlook can help build a better physical form and therefore the pump is physically advantageous.

apollo1975
02-09-2012, 06:11 AM
Can anyone define 'the pump' and how you would know if you got it, so to speak?

billb7581
02-09-2012, 06:28 AM
Im not sure what it is either, but there was a vein sighting in my right arm last night post workout.

BloodySalad
02-09-2012, 06:35 AM
Explanation here: bodybuilding.com/fun/ivan5.htm

and here: bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson161.htm

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 06:43 AM
The pump is associated with sarcoplamic hypertrophy. So yes....it contributes to muscular growth. That being said, I have heard different ratios, but the consensus is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy only makes up about 10% of the growth seen in a bodybuilder. The remaining 90% being myofibrillar.

So not doing any pump type training is definitely leaving some growth on the table....but I also believe that it is not something I put a lot of time into either. For me, the majority of my effort is placed in moving heavy things for 5-10 reps....and then I finish off with a little pump type work.


Here is a great example of the physique that is built with a foundation of myofibrillar hypertrophy. This is Dave Gulledge. He is a power lifter. The first pic is his normal weight at 320lbs. Second pic is his cut to 265. Very little pump work I am sure went in to building this physique. Although he freely admits to the "supplementation" protocol he followed. ;) Very impressive regardless.

There is a vast difference between a "pump" and a "burn". The pump can be achieved with zero growth in size or strength. Using a muscle with any amount of stress will cause an increase in blood flow. A burn on the other hand (with usually is accompanied by a "pump") is caused by lactic acid as a by product of the Krebs cycle, and subsequently feed back into the muscles once converted back into glycogen via the Cori cycle. The result with stressing these pathways,will cause an increase in sarcoplasm, the fluid responsible for storing energy.

Stressing this metabolic pathways is thus accomplished by volume training in which a lactic burn is often prevalent.

ljimd
02-09-2012, 07:02 AM
Pump is the feedback from your muscles that you are working them. How much it contributes to hypertrophy
- who knows? I don't recall anybody complaining about getting pumped though. I sure don't. Bulging veins
and surging blood ftw.

Big_Sky_Guy
02-09-2012, 08:26 AM
I have no facts other than it is fun to have one!

I do not think it is a direct indicator that you have stimulated muscle growth as you can do a hundred curls with 5 lb and not likely damage much fiber to cause growth.

I completely get the idea of flushing blood into the muscles at the end of a workout to stimulate efficient recovery and for aesthetic reasons.

drudixon
02-09-2012, 08:58 AM
Look at whats actually happening....

Blood shuttles glycogen and oxygen in, takes lactic acid/hydrogen ions out. With target area vasodilation, a semi vacuum is created, think skinny pipe feeding a big pipe. In comes more blood, which has higher parts per unit of glycogen because your liver will begin releasing it in response to lowering blood glucose, which is due to the muscle depletion of existing stores. The same blood, will take waste product out. In a passive osmosis process like waste removal, the bigger the parts per unit differential between the blood and the cell, the faster the rate yhe waste can leave the cell, ergo increased blood flow helps. That said, low rep strength training doesnt even initiate the lactic acid cycle, so pump doesnt offer the same benefit. as for feeding the muscle protein, pump is almost useless, because protein uptake is highest 24 hours following exercise, so 20 minutes is too small an interval to make much difference.

JOHN GARGANI
02-09-2012, 11:49 AM
The question was "Does the pump that comes from increased blood flow during training result in faster size and/or strength gains to an appreciable amount?", in case you missed that.

You answered the question "Is a pump necessary for normal biological function".

Something can be necessary to sustain life, but not be necessary to improve strength.


no , you missed MY point: I said it WAS necessary....I said it is the FIRST STEP BACK......yes, if it wasn't necessary, it wouldn't happen.....


as to the guy saying "how do you know if you have a pump or not"......WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!! really???

billb7581
02-09-2012, 12:09 PM
I was confused about the pump, I dont feel flushed but my muscles feel like they are pressing on the inside of my skin if that makes any sense.

I did have a vein sighting in my shoulder/arm area post workout last night, and my wife said I looked particularly jooicy so I must be getting it. LOL.

nixter
02-09-2012, 12:30 PM
John, would you mind posting some of the research you mentioned? I've always been curious about this. I've spouted the "pump doesn't matter" stuff before but I'm guilty of just repeating that because of what I've heard and read, actual research papers not included. Yet, in the back of my head there's this nagging feeling that the pump might matter. When I lift heavy it puts strain on my whole body, and that's where I feel it, not so much as an individual muscle pain kind of feeling but more of a taxed CNS kind of feeling. When I lift lighter weights for longer I tend to feel the pain in the muscles more than my whole body. I realize this is most likely just lactic acid but this is also when I get the most pump. Is lactic acid not a signal or sign that your muscles are doing something they don't want to do? Wouldn't that then signal muscle adaptation/growth/repair? I hate to use pro BB'ers at examples because we all know what's going on there but I can't help question the pump thing when I see endless videos of these guys picking up relatively light weights and busting out endless partial reps for sets and sets.

Kraken
02-09-2012, 12:53 PM
no , you missed MY point: I said it WAS necessary....I said it is the FIRST STEP BACK......yes, if it wasn't necessary, it wouldn't happen.....


as to the guy saying "how do you know if you have a pump or not"......WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!! really???

So then you believe that a pump is directly proportional to muscle growth and strength, and the bigger the pump, the more growth?

acrawlingchaos
02-09-2012, 01:07 PM
So then you believe that a pump is directly proportional to muscle growth and strength, and the bigger the pump, the more growth?As I stated before, stressing a metabolic pathway will increase the efficiency of that pathway. Just like any other type of lifting, the growth is caused by progressive resistance (in this instance primarily increasing volume).

Kraken
02-09-2012, 01:08 PM
As I stated before, stressing a metabolic pathway will increase the efficiency of that pathway. Just like any other type of lifting, the growth is caused by progressive resistance (in this instance primarily increasing volume).

There was a reason I quoted an individual on that question. :)

Bl4ckfl4g
02-09-2012, 01:24 PM
I eat 20 grams of carbs per day only. That's probably why I don't get any kind of pump except right after I carb up. Still growing though and lifting incrementally heavier weights.

drudixon
02-09-2012, 01:26 PM
John, would you mind posting some of the research you mentioned? I've always been curious about this. I've spouted the "pump doesn't matter" stuff before but I'm guilty of just repeating that because of what I've heard and read, actual research papers not included. Yet, in the back of my head there's this nagging feeling that the pump might matter. When I lift heavy it puts strain on my whole body, and that's where I feel it, not so much as an individual muscle pain kind of feeling but more of a taxed CNS kind of feeling. When I lift lighter weights for longer I tend to feel the pain in the muscles more than my whole body. I realize this is most likely just lactic acid but this is also when I get the most pump. Is lactic acid not a signal or sign that your muscles are doing something they don't want to do? Wouldn't that then signal muscle adaptation/growth/repair? I hate to use pro BB'ers at examples because we all know what's going on there but I can't help question the pump thing when I see endless videos of these guys picking up relatively light weights and busting out endless partial reps for sets and sets.

This article is about cancer, but cancer growth mirrors healthy cellular growth in its required building blocks.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcp.1041510220/abstract



Tumors and multicellular tumor spheroids can develop gradients in oxygen concentration, glucose concentration, and extracellular pH as they grow. In order to calculate these gradients and assess their impact on tumor growth, it is necessary to quantify the effect of these variables on tumor cell metabolism and growth. In this work, the oxygen consumption rates, glucose consumption rates, and growth rates of EMT6/Ro mouse mammary tumor cells were measured at a variety of oxygen concentrations, glucose concentrations, and extracellular pH levels. At an extracellular pH of 7.25, the oxygen consumption rate of EMT6/Ro cells increased by nearly a factor of 2 as the glucose concentration was decreased from 5.5 mM to 0.4 mM. This effect of glucose concentration on oxygen consumption rate, however, was slight at an extracellular pH of 6.95 and disappeared completely at an extracellular pH of 6.60. The glucose consumption rate of EMT6/Ro cells increased by roughly 40% when the oxygen concentration was reduced from 0.21 mM to 0.023 mM and decreased by roughly 60% when the extracellular pH was decreased from 7.25 to 6.95. The growth rate of EMT6/Ro cells decreased with decreasing oxygen concentration and extracellular pH; however, severe conditions were required to stop cell growth (0.0082 mM oxygen and an extracellular pH of 6.60). Empirical correlations were developed from these data to express EMT6/Ro cell growth rates, oxygen consumption rates, and glucose consumption rates, as functions of oxygen concentration, glucose concentration, and extracellular pH. These empirical correlations make it possible to mathematically model the gradients in oxygen concentration, glucose concentration, and extracellular pH in EMT6/Ro multicellular spheroids by solution of the diffusion/reaction equations. Computations such as these, along with oxygen and pH microelectrode measurements in EMT6/Ro multicellular spheroids, indicated that nutrient concentration and pH levels in the inner regions of spheroids were low enough to cause significant changes in nutrient consumption rates and cell growth rates. However, pH and oxygen concentrations measured or calculated in EMT6/Ro spheroids where quiescent cells have been observed were not low enough to cause the cessation of cell growth, indicating that the observed quiescence must have been due to factors other than acidic pH, oxygen depletion, or glucose depletion. 1992 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

cliffs: more oxygen, more glucose, neutral pH = more growth.

Kraken
02-09-2012, 01:45 PM
So when I walk out of the gym, I should be so pumped that it hurts and I can't move. Got it.

cockywop
02-09-2012, 04:44 PM
So then you believe that a pump is directly proportional to muscle growth and strength, and the bigger the pump, the more growth?

I believe he said it was simply a piece of the puzzle not "directly proportional".

JOHN GARGANI
02-09-2012, 06:42 PM
John, would you mind posting some of the research you mentioned? I've always been curious about this. I've spouted the "pump doesn't matter" stuff before but I'm guilty of just repeating that because of what I've heard and read, actual research papers not included.

I apologize, NIX, as I must admit I simply do not have the time, or abilities to save all of the research I have read over the years, relating to this and other topics....I subscribe to so many medical journals, it is impossible for me to keep track.....

you will have to take it on faith that I am not just spouting bro-science here.....

JOHN GARGANI
02-09-2012, 06:43 PM
So then you believe that a pump is directly proportional to muscle growth and strength, and the bigger the pump, the more growth?


ahaha....we just can't connect here: I am saying that NOTHING is "directly" proportional, but that EVERYTHING is a piece of the puzzle.....

again, to repeat myself: rather than worry JUST HOW MUCH a piece of the puzzle, each "piece" is, I am too busy DOING ALL THE PIECES...lol....

guys in the mags will quote hilarious percentages: "Bodybuilding is 70 percent nutrition" and so on....

how do they actually arrive at that percentage? lol.....

and who cares!!!!!!!!!!

If I tell someone that working out regularly, with intensity, getting good pumps, watching your macros, taking supps, vitamins, getting rest, etc and so on, will all lead to adding muscle, what is better? worrying about which one is "better" or directly proportional, or which one is 50 percent or 60 percent, or: how it should be:


JUST DOING THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!

and leave the worrying to others.....

Kraken
02-09-2012, 06:54 PM
ahaha....we just can't connect here: I am saying that NOTHING is "directly" proportional, but that EVERYTHING is a piece of the puzzle.....

again, to repeat myself: rather than worry JUST HOW MUCH a piece of the puzzle, each "piece" is, I am too busy DOING ALL THE PIECES...lol....

guys in the mags will quote hilarious percentages: "Bodybuilding is 70 percent nutrition" and so on....

how do they actually arrive at that percentage? lol.....

and who cares!!!!!!!!!!

If I tell someone that working out regularly, with intensity, getting good pumps, watching your macros, taking supps, vitamins, getting rest, etc and so on, will all lead to adding muscle, what is better? worrying about which one is "better" or directly proportional, or which one is 50 percent or 60 percent, or: how it should be:


JUST DOING THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!

and leave the worrying to others.....

I am simply challenging you as a way to pick your brain. I guess how I feel about it is this. Sure, it's a piece of the puzzle, but it's out of our control, and regardless, I don't think that we can do anything differently, based on the pump, to improve our workouts. In other words, I don't ever increase my volume because I don't have a big enough pump. I base my volume on my progress of strength and muscle gains. My pump never dictates anything that I control, that's the point that I am trying to make. The ONLY time I have ever used a pump to dictate a decision is when an exercise is new and my pump is so much that it hurts or it prevents me from performing the exercise I want to do.

Do you agree or disagree? If you disagree, how does your pump dictate your workouts?

JOHN GARGANI
02-10-2012, 03:54 AM
okay, now I understand exactly what you are saying, and the way you put it, we actually both agree!

since the pump, to me , is so automatic, you are right, I don't have to let it dictate to me what I do or not....

I do what I feel is right for me, on any given night, and enjoy the pump that comes with it....

yes, you are correct: I would not continue to do endless sets because I didn't think the pump was "enough".......

snake1856
02-10-2012, 09:58 AM
I was confused about the pump, I dont feel flushed but my muscles feel like they are pressing on the inside of my skin if that makes any sense.

I did have a vein sighting in my shoulder/arm area post workout last night, and my wife said I looked particularly jooicy so I must be getting it. LOL.

For me, the "Pump" is that fullness you feel after a body part specific lift in that muscle. It literally feels like someone has shot fluid directly into the muscle. It's bigger than normal and for instance, with arms, they have a tendency after curls to naturally rest in a bent position at the elbow, as opposed to extending out fully at rest. Typically, I will also be more veiny for lack of a better word after the lift.

Bladerunner1811
02-10-2012, 01:14 PM
Well i don't believe it is an indicator for growth. simply put because I have seen people grown bigger on such routines as the 5X5 and they never had a pump,I have also seen people grow bigger from doing 20 rep squat routines(and have done so myself),but even with the 20 rep squat routine the idea was to pile on the weight.Personally I believe it boils down to this no matter what anyone says the key to growth is to get STRONGER,and to get stronger you need to lift heavier.

I'll admit i addressed this once before that the pump is not a good indicator of muscular growth from an exercise,and was blasted by a chick who was a competitive bodybuilder,because I am not a competitive bodybuidler,and she carried on like her statis as a competitive bodybuidler meant she knows exatly what she was talking about,and because I am not a competitive bodybuidler I didn't basically she had a case of false blown up pride,plus she knew because she is a competitive bodybuidler everyone would assume she knows exactly what she was talking about and is an expert when I know 1) calling yourself an expert does not mean you are;2)being a competitive bodybuilder also does not mean you know what you are talking about and that you could just be passing along gymlore that is actually unfounded and not based on fact,and 3) Just because someone does not compete does not mean they know less,the fact is the person that knows the most about training,dieting,etc might just the the joe that does not compete !

and to those who might say you don't have to lift HEAVY to build bigger muscles let me quote from the current issue of PUMPED magazine it's article "5X5 Workout" pages 7-8:"Forget about pumps.forget about soreness and don't let those be a gauge of your progress.truly the only thing that matters to gaining size is strength-period.