PDA

View Full Version : All i hear is supplements for this, supplements for that



Vicjustice
02-05-2012, 03:49 PM
I don't know why people always consider using supplements when it comes to working-out (i'd understand if someone wants to be a big time body builder but) i think supplements are not needed at all for working oneself into shape nor for developing moderate muscles.
I've never used any supplements of any sort, and i don't think i'll ever have any reason to use them

Iceman1800
02-05-2012, 03:51 PM
I don't know why people always consider using supplements when it comes to working-out (i'd understand if someone wants to be a big time body builder but) i think supplements are not needed at all for working oneself into shape nor for developing moderate muscles.
I've never used any supplements of any sort, and i don't think i'll ever have any reason to use them6'2" and 104# seriously? That would explain that you've never used any supplements including food.....

Vicjustice
02-05-2012, 03:54 PM
6'2" and 104# seriously? That would explain that you've never used any supplements including food.....
Lol, my bad, i wanted to say 104 kg, not ibs

Iceman1800
02-05-2012, 03:57 PM
Lol, my bad, i wanted to say 104 kg, not ibsLOL, ok then. :)

Cbuzz00
02-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Definately not needed for "moderate" muscle gain or your average joe looking to build a little muscle. I personally use them in my shakes for flavour & a little extra protien kicker. They do give you a protien kick if your low for the day, no denying it.

End of that day, it's your opinion that really counts. If you don't feel you need them, don't use em :)

ironwill2008
02-05-2012, 04:12 PM
IMO supplements can be very valuable when they're used as their name suggests--as an adjunct to an already good, regular-food nutrition plan. Protein supps (providing they come from US-made sources) can help to meet demands of high protein requirements conveniently. Fish oil caps can provide good amounts of healthy fats. Creatine has been clinically-proven many times over to be of benefit to hard-training bodybuilders/powerlifters/strongmen.


The problem arises, again IMO, when noobs or otherwise unknowledgeable trainees get sucked in by all the whiz-bang supp ads promising Cutler-like gainz in a week. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.







My best suggestion is to do your homework, and evaluate whatever supp you're considering based on clinical testing. There are a multitude of online resources with which to do this, PubMed and JISSN just a few of many.

crupiea
02-05-2012, 04:30 PM
not needed.

What you are hearing is advertisers.

Vicjustice
02-06-2012, 03:23 AM
Definately not needed for "moderate" muscle gain or your average joe looking to build a little muscle. I personally use them in my shakes for flavour & a little extra protien kicker. They do give you a protien kick if your low for the day, no denying it.

End of that day, it's your opinion that really counts. If you don't feel you need them, don't use em :)Well said

Vicjustice
02-06-2012, 03:26 AM
IMO supplements can be very valuable when they're used as their name suggests--as an adjunct to an already good, regular-food nutrition plan. Protein supps (providing they come from US-made sources) can help to meet demands of high protein requirements conveniently. Fish oil caps can provide good amounts of healthy fats. Creatine has been clinically-proven many times over to be of benefit to hard-training bodybuilders/powerlifters/strongmen.


The problem arises, again IMO, when noobs or otherwise unknowledgeable trainees get sucked in by all the whiz-bang supp ads promising Cutler-like gainz in a week. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.







My best suggestion is to do your homework, and evaluate whatever supp you're considering based on clinical testing. There are a multitude of online resources with which to do this, PubMed and JISSN just a few of many.Well, you can't really trust the kind of chemicals or whatever some of those "suppliments" contain.

Vicjustice
02-06-2012, 03:27 AM
not needed.

What you are hearing is advertisers.I agree with you, 100%

jor012
02-06-2012, 06:59 AM
I don't know why people always consider using supplements when it comes to working-out (i'd understand if someone wants to be a big time body builder but) i think supplements are not needed at all for working oneself into shape nor for developing moderate muscles.
I've never used any supplements of any sort, and i don't think i'll ever have any reason to use themIf your goals and program are geared around general fitness, I would somewhat agree with it not being needed. Moderate gains? If your not taking at least a protein sup "moderate" or little to none may be all you should expect. Where is your body going to get the energy it needs to workout and recoop without fueling in the form of food or sups? You look lean so I would say your body will feed off of your muscle tissue. Don't shovel s&%t against the tide. you can get 3 lbs of whey for as little as 15 bucks at certain places. that's 50 cents per shake @ 26 grams of protein. That's dirt cheap..I know I couldn't afford to get my protein needs on strickly meat.

StressMonkey
02-06-2012, 07:51 AM
You're going to hear a lot about supplements on a site that sells supplements.

Vicjustice
02-09-2012, 11:44 AM
If your goals and program are geared around general fitness, I would somewhat agree with it not being needed. Moderate gains? If your not taking at least a protein sup "moderate" or little to none may be all you should expect. Where is your body going to get the energy it needs to workout and recoop without fueling in the form of food or sups? You look lean so I would say your body will feed off of your muscle tissue. Don't shovel s&%t against the tide. you can get 3 lbs of whey for as little as 15 bucks at certain places. that's 50 cents per shake @ 26 grams of protein. That's dirt cheap..I know I couldn't afford to get my protein needs on strickly meat.I know guys who have not even started anything, and they're already considering taking "supplements"

Dutchman
02-11-2012, 03:09 PM
All well and good to hear a bunch of 30 somethings saying supplements don't help/aren't needed. The thing is as you age and you will no matter how damn strong you are today, things change. Your serum test and free test are going down, your creatine, beta-alanine, vitamin D3 and tons of other things are going down each year as you age. IMO it is better to consider what kind of supplements are needed, when and for what objectives. Then when you study your own comprehensive test results eg. test, vitamins etc, then you can plan for your health and progress needs. I am now on TRT for 2 years, but I still find taking a combo of Creatine/Beta-Alanine/AAKG pumps me up, helps me recover and really supports my continued strength gains. Similar combos help me with my cholesterol, heart, prostate, memory etc. I am healthy as can be and I strongly believe that at 70, the supps are an important component of a lifestyle built around lifting and proper nutrition.

hammerfelt
02-11-2012, 03:49 PM
"Ever" is a long time.

rand18m
02-11-2012, 04:05 PM
First it's important to distinguish nutritional supplements and ergogenic aids, and those that have shown sufficient evidence that it does or may work.

For instance creatine is an ergogenic aid that has been studied over and over and continually shows that in most of the population it does in fact work.

Whey protein or protein supplementation, is what most people are talking about when they bring up the subject of supplements...should I or shouldn't I. (IMO)

Protein supplementation for the average guy working out to build muscle and stay functionally strong, which I assume is the majority on this site, is by in large a preference. Most of us have dietary needs that can easily be met with a proper diet. However, there are some guys on this site that are VERY large, and they, I assume, require large amounts of food just to make certain their macro/micro needs are met. They may in fact have a greater need if consuming enough food is an issue. Personally I like protein supplements as I am not a big eater, have never been and don't ever intend to be. For me the convenience is well worth the price.

So be sure to understand why you are taking any supplement, research to find out what evidence there is to show that the theory behind it works if it's an ergogenic aid, and if it's simply a dietary supplement, make sure it fits your overall dietary plan.

Good luck!!

Vicjustice
03-13-2012, 07:58 AM
First it's important to distinguish nutritional supplements and ergogenic aids, and those that have shown sufficient evidence that it does or may work.

For instance creatine is an ergogenic aid that has been studied over and over and continually shows that in most of the population it does in fact work.

Whey protein or protein supplementation, is what most people are talking about when they bring up the subject of supplements...should I or shouldn't I. (IMO)

Protein supplementation for the average guy working out to build muscle and stay functionally strong, which I assume is the majority on this site, is by in large a preference. Most of us have dietary needs that can easily be met with a proper diet. However, there are some guys on this site that are VERY large, and they, I assume, require large amounts of food just to make certain their macro/micro needs are met. They may in fact have a greater need if consuming enough food is an issue. Personally I like protein supplements as I am not a big eater, have never been and don't ever intend to be. For me the convenience is well worth the price.

So be sure to understand why you are taking any supplement, research to find out what evidence there is to show that the theory behind it works if it's an ergogenic aid, and if it's simply a dietary supplement, make sure it fits your overall dietary plan.

Good luck!!Well, have to agree with many lines here

billb7581
03-13-2012, 08:01 AM
Most days I can eat enough protien, I keep some whey around in case I dont though...Squats oats and take a multi.

dazlittle
03-13-2012, 09:05 AM
(providing they come from US-made sources)

Sorry to derail but why only US-made sources?

Phattso
03-13-2012, 09:31 AM
All well and good to hear a bunch of 30 somethings saying supplements don't help/aren't needed. The thing is as you age and you will no matter how damn strong you are today, things change. Your serum test and free test are going down, your creatine, beta-alanine, vitamin D3 and tons of other things are going down each year as you age. IMO it is better to consider what kind of supplements are needed, when and for what objectives. Then when you study your own comprehensive test results eg. test, vitamins etc, then you can plan for your health and progress needs. I am now on TRT for 2 years, but I still find taking a combo of Creatine/Beta-Alanine/AAKG pumps me up, helps me recover and really supports my continued strength gains. Similar combos help me with my cholesterol, heart, prostate, memory etc. I am healthy as can be and I strongly believe that at 70, the supps are an important component of a lifestyle built around lifting and proper nutrition.

Worth quoting. Thanks, Dutch.

For me, supplements are needed. For others, it is up to them. It would be almost impossible for me to consume the amount of protein I need for growth with just food.

flairon
03-13-2012, 09:57 AM
Like Dutch said, it isn't a one size fits all question. Different people at different times are going to likely need supplements of some sort.

That doesn't mean that supps are necessarily mandatory, but the underlying theme in fitness is 'efficiency'. Supps will help some achieve their goals a little faster and more efficiently.

ChocoChick
03-13-2012, 10:43 AM
All well and good to hear a bunch of 30 somethings saying supplements don't help/aren't needed. The thing is as you age and you will no matter how damn strong you are today, things change. Your serum test and free test are going down, your creatine, beta-alanine, vitamin D3 and tons of other things are going down each year as you age. IMO it is better to consider what kind of supplements are needed, when and for what objectives. Then when you study your own comprehensive test results eg. test, vitamins etc, then you can plan for your health and progress needs. I am now on TRT for 2 years, but I still find taking a combo of Creatine/Beta-Alanine/AAKG pumps me up, helps me recover and really supports my continued strength gains. Similar combos help me with my cholesterol, heart, prostate, memory etc. I am healthy as can be and I strongly believe that at 70, the supps are an important component of a lifestyle built around lifting and proper nutrition.

Well said.

Also, some supplements may be needed depending on lifestyle. For instance, many people don't get enough unprotected sun, so they supplement with Vitamin D. Others don't like to eat fish, so they take fish oil. Others find that their diet lacks minerals (fairly common given modern farming practices) so they supplement there. And then there's the whole issue of preventive care. Even though I eat loads of cruciferous vegetabls, I supplement with DIM, which is protective against breast and prostate cancers.

Instead of framing this as whether supplements are good or bad, a better question is how you can meet your dietary and health needs through nutrition. From there, the decision to supplement (or not) will be clear.

Phattso
03-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Well said.

Also, some supplements may be needed depending on lifestyle. For instance, many people don't get enough unprotected sun, so they supplement with Vitamin D. Others don't like to eat fish, so they take fish oil. Others find that their diet lacks minerals (fairly common given modern farming practices) so they supplement there. And then there's the whole issue of preventive care. Even though I eat loads of cruciferous vegetabls, I supplement with DIM, which is protective against breast and prostate cancers.

Instead of framing this as whether supplements are good or bad, a better question is how you can meet your dietary and health needs through nutrition. From there, the decision to supplement (or not) will be clear.

On spread, Chick of Chocolate ;) I also take DIM, Calcium D-Glucarate, Indole-3-Carbinol and Pregnenolone, among other secret things. The first three for example lower estrogen and there are studies that Indole-3-Carbinol can also prevent cancer. For the interweb police, all OTC.

ironwill2008
03-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Sorry to derail but why only US-made sources?

Contamination issues, either accidental or purposeful. There have been reports in the past year, a few covered in threads in this forum, of heavy-metal contamination of several brands of whey protein, some made from Chinese-based raw materials.

Remember the pet food contamination issue from a couple of years ago? Chinese based (again) protein sources used in the manufacture of some pet foods sold in the US were found to be spiked with melamine, an industrial compound used to make plastics and other items, that, when added to food products, makes the food item appear to have more protein content that is actually there. Unfortunately, melamine is poisonous, and caused the deaths of thousands of household pets.


Other countries, particularly China, have much less regard for purity issues in their export products. Personally, if the ingredients are even remotely associated with any Chinese company, I won't buy or consume them. I also avoid any other products from any supp company that uses off-shore ingredients in any of it's products.


And while FDA isn't problem-free, it's the best thing we've got in an effort to maintain purity and truthfulness in everything we consume in this country. It's certainly better than what China has.

MontyMagpie
03-13-2012, 11:32 AM
I have some multi-vits, glusomine sulphate, cod-liver oil, niacin b-vits, vitamin C, that's about it apart from food. No whey or casein mix apart from dairy products.

I have a lot of green tea and lately Rooibos (red bush) tea. A couple of cups of tea is worth 5 vegetables in terms of antioxidants.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2102876/Three-cups-tea-day-protects-heart-problems-diabetes.html#ixzz1p1Fc1gtM

I use turmeric on my rice it makes it taste nice and is good for you.

"Turmeric is an amazing herb that is commonly found in the grocery store. It also is quickly being noticed as the strongest anti-oxidant and also a powerful anti-inflammatory available today."

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/turmeric-herb-benefits.htm

I use low salt for potassium as recommended by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Brackneyc
03-13-2012, 11:45 AM
I think a huge segment (if not you, then I don't mean you) of the lifting population works harder in the gym when they use them. I think the placebo affect is real, even if the chemistry proves otherwise.

dazlittle
03-13-2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks makes perfect sense to me.


Contamination issues, either accidental or purposeful. There have been reports in the past year, a few covered in threads in this forum, of heavy-metal contamination of several brands of whey protein, some made from Chinese-based raw materials.

Remember the pet food contamination issue from a couple of years ago? Chinese based (again) protein sources used in the manufacture of some pet foods sold in the US were found to be spiked with melamine, an industrial compound used to make plastics and other items, that, when added to food products, makes the food item appear to have more protein content that is actually there. Unfortunately, melamine is poisonous, and caused the deaths of thousands of household pets.


Other countries, particularly China, have much less regard for purity issues in their export products. Personally, if the ingredients are even remotely associated with any Chinese company, I won't buy or consume them. I also avoid any other products from any supp company that uses off-shore ingredients in any of it's products.


And while FDA isn't problem-free, it's the best thing we've got in an effort to maintain purity and truthfulness in everything we consume in this country. It's certainly better than what China has.

ironwill2008
03-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Thanks makes perfect sense to me.

YW.

I also want to point out that I'm no "alarmist" when it comes to food additives, supplements, or even naturally-occurring substances in regular food items. I simply feel that every individual owes it to him/herself to practice due diligence where it comes to these issues, and to exercise some caution and common sense. We (all of us) have a tendency to sometimes put trust where it isn't merited. At the least, that can cost us some $$$. At the worst, it can be far more costly.

philipj
03-13-2012, 01:51 PM
Back 12+ years ago I was hospitalized with a 106 fever, within 2 hours of being dead. Two weeks later before discharge the doctor in charge of my case told me the only reason I lived was(he checked with my personal doc and my secretary) was that I was a life long exercisor AND took a lot of fancy vitamins. I am living proof that both regimens work. I take 6 or 7 different vitamins and supplements daily, a multi, Fish oil, niacin(B) magnesium/potassium, Proantanol Bio complex from Life plus(top of the line antioxiant) and others that I cycle in and out of rotation.

JOHN GARGANI
03-13-2012, 01:59 PM
VICJUSTICE: keep an open mind regarding supplements. There is a LOT of good advice on this thread....

please especially note how different types of supplements were broken down...

I have been to either extremes: taking everything and then some, and taking nothing....

the answer, as with almost ALL things in life, lies somewhere in the middle.

the same way you learn to listen to your body in regards to what exercise are best FOR YOU, the same applies to nutrition: you will gain a sense of what actually helps and what doesn't.....

2BLAZERS
03-13-2012, 02:09 PM
I supplement with only Protein, Creatine, and a multivitam. I feel it makes a differnce in my lifts, strength, recovery etc...certainly not a ''need'' sometimes I run out and don't order to quickly because of my $$$budget$$$.

But I'd agree with the OP that it is getting rediculose the amount of non serious lifter, weak students, old round as a barel non-athletes, etc...pounding down the jack3, shaking the protein drinks before, during, and after their ''hardcore'' workout of squating 135# or benching super heavy with the 40# dumbbells:)

Supplements should supplement the healthy eating and hard work at the gym. But it seems like many of the newbies are expecting the supplements to do the work for them. Watched an older guy last night, round as a barrel, come into the weight room shaking his bodybuilder preworkout drink so he could pound out some serious curls with the 22.5# DBs then he did a few situps, did a couple calf raises, leg extensions, and left.... Also the amount of youth (Upper middle and HS) who come in pounding the protein drinks, talking about Jack3, Creatine, Protein, etc is a joke. They all have memberships at GNC. The supplement companies have done really great at marketing to these guys. And the parents are buying it all for them because the kids are afraid if they don't some other kid will and take their position away on the BB team or football team.

I'd add the ''kids'' that seem to get the strongest are the ones that just in and WORK hard at the weights for a long period of time. They work the basic lifts and go at it! Supplements seem to be used by the weakest the most....

BloodySalad
03-13-2012, 03:33 PM
Thanks makes perfect sense to me.

Doesn't make any to me.
Y'see, there's this little, old continent called "Europe".
They're pretty technologically advanced with pretty high standards as well. ;)

charlievanriper
03-13-2012, 03:37 PM
I supplement with only Protein, Creatine, and a multivitam. I feel it makes a differnce in my lifts, strength, recovery etc...certainly not a ''need'' sometimes I run out and don't order to quickly because of my $$$budget$$$.

But I'd agree with the OP that it is getting rediculose the amount of non serious lifter, weak students, old round as a barel non-athletes, etc...pounding down the jack3, shaking the protein drinks before, during, and after their ''hardcore'' workout of squating 135# or benching super heavy with the 40# dumbbells:)

Supplements should supplement the healthy eating and hard work at the gym. But it seems like many of the newbies are expecting the supplements to do the work for them. Watched an older guy last night, round as a barrel, come into the weight room shaking his bodybuilder preworkout drink so he could pound out some serious curls with the 22.5# DBs then he did a few situps, did a couple calf raises, leg extensions, and left.... Also the amount of youth (Upper middle and HS) who come in pounding the protein drinks, talking about Jack3, Creatine, Protein, etc is a joke. They all have memberships at GNC. The supplement companies have done really great at marketing to these guys. And the parents are buying it all for them because the kids are afraid if they don't some other kid will and take their position away on the BB team or football team.

I'd add the ''kids'' that seem to get the strongest are the ones that just in and WORK hard at the weights for a long period of time. They work the basic lifts and go at it! Supplements seem to be used by the weakest the most....

Lol, because the scenario's are funny, But then anger rolls in thinking what a waste. Supps are just that supps, nothing will work a miracle is you dont put in the work.

Brackneyc
03-13-2012, 04:05 PM
Doesn't make any to me.
Y'see, there's this little, old continent called "Europe".
They're pretty technologically advanced with pretty high standards as well. ;)


They do make some nice cars.

Bladerunner1811
03-13-2012, 05:30 PM
No not needed at all,look at some of the awsome physique stars of the pre- protien powder era like John Grimek for example.

thecooliocooler
03-13-2012, 05:40 PM
Hmm

pipios
03-13-2012, 05:45 PM
IMO supplements can be very valuable when they're used as their name suggests--as an adjunct to an already good, regular-food nutrition plan. Protein supps (providing they come from US-made sources) can help to meet demands of high protein requirements conveniently. Fish oil caps can provide good amounts of healthy fats. Creatine has been clinically-proven many times over to be of benefit to hard-training bodybuilders/powerlifters/strongmen.


The problem arises, again IMO, when noobs or otherwise unknowledgeable trainees get sucked in by all the whiz-bang supp ads promising Cutler-like gainz in a week. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.







My best suggestion is to do your homework, and evaluate whatever supp you're considering based on clinical testing. There are a multitude of online resources with which to do this, PubMed and JISSN just a few of many.

Man I always look up to your good posts. I have a question: How much fish oil ? I drink one 1,000 miligram a day, is that not enough ?

stingray72
03-13-2012, 05:47 PM
Im thinking of stopping protein powder after my last 10 pounds is gone. Id rather get it from real food. The only supplement ill continue to buy is my multi vitamin.

pvsampson
03-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Doesn't make any to me.
Y'see, there's this little, old continent called "Europe".
They're pretty technologically advanced with pretty high standards as well. ;)

And a little island called Australia!!

I think the point is to avoid Chinese supps altogether.

MontyMagpie
03-13-2012, 05:56 PM
Man I always look up to your good posts. I have a question: How much fish oil ? I drink one 1,000 miligram a day, is that not enough ?

That's a low amount, that's 1g. My pilchards have 2.1g of omega3 per 100g and the can is 425g so that's 8.9g providing 3.4g of DHA and 4.67g of EPA and I'll have a couple of them and some tuna or cod or salmon as well.

If you can eat fish rather than a cap of fish oil.

danow
03-13-2012, 06:32 PM
No not needed at all,look at some of the awsome physique stars of the pre- protien powder era like John Grimek for example.Grimek used better stuff.

pipios
03-13-2012, 06:35 PM
That's a low amount, that's 1g. My pilchards have 2.1g of omega3 per 100g and the can is 425g so that's 8.9g providing 3.4g of DHA and 4.67g of EPA and I'll have a couple of them and some tuna or cod or salmon as well.

If you can eat fish rather than a cap of fish oil.

I use normal walgreens fish oil:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/finest-natural-fish-oil-1000-mg-dietary-supplement-softgels/ID=prod4220732-product

is this garbage ?

MontyMagpie
03-13-2012, 06:45 PM
I use normal walgreens fish oil:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/finest-natural-fish-oil-1000-mg-dietary-supplement-softgels/ID=prod4220732-product

is this garbage ?

Yes it is just gelatin mostly with 1g of fish oil. It's not going to do jack.

You'd be better getting a bottle of fish oil liquid and consuming 10g(1 tablespoon) of it or eat more fish or there is cod liver oil which has more vitamin A and D again in liquid form is so much better.

Bladerunner1811
03-13-2012, 06:46 PM
Grimek used better stuff.

I know where you are trying to take this and i'm not getting into any debates with you.

pipios
03-13-2012, 07:01 PM
Yes it is just gelatin mostly with 1g of fish oil. It's not going to do jack.

You'd be better getting a bottle of fish oil liquid and consuming 10g(1 tablespoon) of it or eat more fish or there is cod liver oil which has more vitamin A and D again in liquid form is so much better.

thanks very much :-)

rand18m
03-13-2012, 07:41 PM
At the end of the day, NOTHING beats a properly composed and varied diet, nothing!

Maybe one day there will be concrete evidence of supplemental molecules that work miracles beyond the context of food, if it exits now I certainly don't know about it!

djflex
03-13-2012, 07:45 PM
My philosphy is to try whatever product has the best ad, usually in the bb magazines. These ads are often really scientific studies and much can be learned from them

Meatpants
03-13-2012, 08:19 PM
There is always a scientific study to back any argument. Everyone responds differently to different things. Just because one thing doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for somebody else. Creatine is a perfect example. I would recommend trying things for yourself, one at a time, to get a sense of true feedback.

As was mentioned, supplements will only fill in the cracks of a well laid out nutritional plan, in combination with a well thought out routine.

When you are 6'2", 250lbs @ 8-9%, natural, your opinion on supplements will be valid to me.

And yes, as mentioned, you are on a supplement web site. :rolleyes:

Dutchman
03-13-2012, 08:42 PM
I supplement with only Protein, Creatine, and a multivitam. I feel it makes a differnce in my lifts, strength, recovery etc...certainly not a ''need'' sometimes I run out and don't order to quickly because of my $$$budget$$$.

But I'd agree with the OP that it is getting rediculose the amount of non serious lifter, weak students, old round as a barel non-athletes, etc...pounding down the jack3, shaking the protein drinks before, during, and after their ''hardcore'' workout of squating 135# or benching super heavy with the 40# dumbbells:)

Supplements should supplement the healthy eating and hard work at the gym. But it seems like many of the newbies are expecting the supplements to do the work for them. Watched an older guy last night, round as a barrel, come into the weight room shaking his bodybuilder preworkout drink so he could pound out some serious curls with the 22.5# DBs then he did a few situps, did a couple calf raises, leg extensions, and left.... Also the amount of youth (Upper middle and HS) who come in pounding the protein drinks, talking about Jack3, Creatine, Protein, etc is a joke. They all have memberships at GNC. The supplement companies have done really great at marketing to these guys. And the parents are buying it all for them because the kids are afraid if they don't some other kid will and take their position away on the BB team or football team.

I'd add the ''kids'' that seem to get the strongest are the ones that just in and WORK hard at the weights for a long period of time. They work the basic lifts and go at it! Supplements seem to be used by the weakest the most....

I'm not sure now if you meant that as an insult in general to older lifters. C'mon down to Fl, we'll be glad to keep you busy while you bust your butt and we show you how dumb we Old Farts are! Unfortunately you have NO IDEA of how much your body is changing and will continue to change as you age. Most of my old PLing buddies have given up the chase as they have run into one or another physical problem that has seriously changed their life. By combining training/diet/supplementation/dedication it is really possible to stay strong and fit as you age. Increasing the number and type of supplements you use as you age is very important to achieving your long term health/fitness/strength goals. Are you aware that supps which are often used like creatine/beta-alanine/AAKG/taurine/astaxanthin/green tea extract/ALCAR/ubiquinol are also very useful to extend your life expectancy and to allow you to enjoy each day far more than your friends who don't supp as they should?

I edited the above to soften it after rereading your post. The problem I see here in this 87,000+ retirement community is that even when they train my fellow retirees go way too easy, not challenging themselves and most don't know diddly about supps much less use and abuse them.

ironwill2008
03-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Man I always look up to your good posts. I have a question: How much fish oil ? I drink one 1,000 miligram a day, is that not enough ?

1000 mg is the general recommendation, but your best bet is to just stick with the serving directions on the container. Do that, and you can't really go wrong.

It's not a good idea to try to mega-dose Omega-3 supps (or any other supp, for that matter); large quantities of O-3 can cause health problems.








I think the point is to avoid Chinese supps altogether.

^^^^This is the point I was trying to make. I should have been clearer.

Thanks!

JerryB
03-13-2012, 09:29 PM
IMO supplements can be very valuable when they're used as their name suggests--as an adjunct to an already good, regular-food nutrition plan. Protein supps (providing they come from US-made sources) can help to meet demands of high protein requirements conveniently. Fish oil caps can provide good amounts of healthy fats. Creatine has been clinically-proven many times over to be of benefit to hard-training bodybuilders/powerlifters/strongmen.


The problem arises, again IMO, when noobs or otherwise unknowledgeable trainees get sucked in by all the whiz-bang supp ads promising Cutler-like gainz in a week. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.







My best suggestion is to do your homework, and evaluate whatever supp you're considering based on clinical testing. There are a multitude of online resources with which to do this, PubMed and JISSN just a few of many.

Excellent response. That is my approach to supplements. I do my homework.


I personally use supplements to augment my nutrients from prepared meals for convenience.

When thinking about the makers of supplements, we should not overlook they are the primary sponsors of this website.

MontyMagpie
03-13-2012, 09:48 PM
1000 mg is the general recommendation, but your best bet is to just stick with the serving directions on the container. Do that, and you can't really go wrong.

It's not a good idea to try to mega-dose Omega-3 supps (or any other supp, for that matter); large quantities of O-3 can cause health problems.



^^^^This is the point I was trying to make. I should have been clearer.

Thanks!
As I said my canned Pilchards can provide 8.9g of Omega 3 and it's not over doing it, I would stick to what it says on the supplement instructions though as you have said but then liquid fish oils and cod liver recommend far more than is on the gel type caps and have far more Omega and EPA DHA than the caps and typically there are some super strength liquid fish/cod liver oils that provide even more. As someone said earlier it is better to try and get your needs from foods first and if you are eating good sources of Omega 3 you are not going to be needing supplement.

Bladerunner1811
03-13-2012, 11:09 PM
My philosphy is to try whatever product has the best ad, usually in the bb magazines. These ads are often really scientific studies and much can be learned from them What a lot of crock i bet if they had an ad advertising the muscle building effects of Rabbit Pellets,and claimed they had scientific evidence to back it up you'd run out and start buying rabbit poop from rabbit owners and consume it!

dazlittle
03-14-2012, 01:55 AM
Doesn't make any to me.
Y'see, there's this little, old continent called "Europe".
They're pretty technologically advanced with pretty high standards as well. ;)

Yeah I live in Europe as well, I meant the china thing, should have been more specific but couldn't be arsed to type on my Iphone!!

Dutchman
03-14-2012, 04:51 AM
That's a low amount, that's 1g. My pilchards have 2.1g of omega3 per 100g and the can is 425g so that's 8.9g providing 3.4g of DHA and 4.67g of EPA and I'll have a couple of them and some tuna or cod or salmon as well.

If you can eat fish rather than a cap of fish oil.

You can't emphasize that enough. Supplements are just that SUPPLEMENTS. That said, I completely agree with the dosage amounts you use. My actives ie EPA + DHA total 6.3 gms daily. I use a triple strength capsule (7 X 900 mgs of Omega 3s ea.) while my wife uses a great liquid FO (Carlsons). It's important to use a good purified ie molecularly distilled supplier. There is now a huge and growing body of info that puts Omega 3s up there with Vitamin D3 and Ubiquinone/Ubiquinol among the must haves as we age. Most of the sucessful studies have used some 2 to 5 gms of actives.

Brackneyc
03-14-2012, 07:32 AM
What a lot of crock i bet if they had an ad advertising the muscle building effects of Rabbit Pellets,and claimed they had scientific evidence to back it up you'd run out and start buying rabbit poop from rabbit owners and consume it!


Whoosh....

Iceman1800
03-14-2012, 07:40 AM
My philosphy is to try whatever product has the best ad, usually in the bb magazines. These ads are often really scientific studies and much can be learned from themonly if they use really hot chicks in bikinis. I buy all of those

ironwill2008
03-14-2012, 08:06 AM
only if they use really hot chicks in bikinis. I buy all of those

Or any supp with a magazine ad featuring a jacked Pro bodybuilder, his face contorted in agony as he curls a 110 pound dumbbell. Anything sold in that ad has gotta be good.

2BLAZERS
03-14-2012, 12:34 PM
I'm not sure now if you meant that as an insult in general to older lifters. C'mon down to Fl, we'll be glad to keep you busy while you bust your butt and we show you how dumb we Old Farts are! Unfortunately you have NO IDEA of how much your body is changing and will continue to change as you age. Most of my old PLing buddies have given up the chase as they have run into one or another physical problem that has seriously changed their life. By combining training/diet/supplementation/dedication it is really possible to stay strong and fit as you age. Increasing the number and type of supplements you use as you age is very important to achieving your long term health/fitness/strength goals. Are you aware that supps which are often used like creatine/beta-alanine/AAKG/taurine/astaxanthin/green tea extract/ALCAR/ubiquinol are also very useful to extend your life expectancy and to allow you to enjoy each day far more than your friends who don't supp as they should?

I edited the above to soften it after rereading your post. The problem I see here in this 87,000+ retirement community is that even when they train my fellow retirees go way too easy, not challenging themselves and most don't know diddly about supps much less use and abuse them.

I don't mean to offend anyone. Even guys my age (37) are spending big bucks on supplements but not putting the time in at the gym. Supplements have become the main thing for to many people. They eat like crap, they don't work out hard, and then they think popping a magic pill will all of a sudden eliminate their love handles and give them 18'' arms....

CookAndrewB
03-14-2012, 01:42 PM
I think of hormone replacement as going beyond the scope of the supplement industry. I completely understand and appreciate the point, but being under medical supervised treatment isn't quite the same as buying Super Pump. In the same way, I wouldn't consider anabolic steroid use as "supplementation" either.

Likewise, I have always found it odd to consider something like whey protein (or casein, or egg albumin, etc etc) supplementation. You aren't supplementing your protein consumption with it, you are literally eating more protein. That's like saying "I eat salad, but I supplement my veggie intake by eating broc**** too" Just seems an odd perspective.

My take on all of it is that you are an adult, capable of making adult decisions, and what you do with your time/money/body are none of my business. Is it necessary? No. But then again I think hobbies are, in general, not necessary. We participate because it meets some need that we have. Some people have fun taking fistfulls of pills, and it doesn't bother me at all. I certainly wouldn't waste the breath to tell them not to.

Meatpants
03-14-2012, 01:42 PM
I don't mean to offend anyone. Even guys my age (37) are spending big bucks on supplements but not putting the time in at the gym. Supplements have become the main thing for to many people. They eat like crap, they don't work out hard, and then they think popping a magic pill will all of a sudden eliminate their love handles and give them 18'' arms....

This is nothing new, and it goes beyond body building. Everyone is always looking for shortcuts.

Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights.

pipios
03-14-2012, 05:57 PM
This is nothing new, and it goes beyond body building. Everyone is always looking for shortcuts.

Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights.

Exactly !

Man in the gym I attend I swear that like half the members use deca, winstrol or sustanol. Most of them get there as noobs looking for roidz to get big fast. I am working my tail off clean and I am proud of that.

djflex
03-14-2012, 07:47 PM
only if they use really hot chicks in bikinis. I buy all of those

Hot chicks aside, i think when the ads are featured with people in lab coats that means a legimate clinical study took place. For me, that seals the deal.

MontyMagpie
03-14-2012, 08:27 PM
You can't emphasize that enough. Supplements are just that SUPPLEMENTS. That said, I completely agree with the dosage amounts you use. My actives ie EPA + DHA total 6.3 gms daily. I use a triple strength capsule (7 X 900 mgs of Omega 3s ea.) while my wife uses a great liquid FO (Carlsons). It's important to use a good purified ie molecularly distilled supplier. There is now a huge and growing body of info that puts Omega 3s up there with Vitamin D3 and Ubiquinone/Ubiquinol among the must haves as we age. Most of the sucessful studies have used some 2 to 5 gms of actives.

Also Walnuts and flaxseed. Here is a table of omega 3 in food. 1oz of walnuts has 2.6g

http://www.tufts.edu/med/nutrition-infection/hiv/health_omega3.html

gomez26
03-15-2012, 02:13 AM
I don't know why people always consider using supplements when it comes to working-out

many are quick to be over-reliant on them, but this is not surprising given general public's over-reliance on pharmaceuticals - theres basically pills for everything these days.


VICJUSTICE: keep an open mind regarding supplements. There is a LOT of good advice on this thread....

please especially note how different types of supplements were broken down...

I have been to either extremes: taking everything and then some, and taking nothing....

the answer, as with almost ALL things in life, lies somewhere in the middle.

the same way you learn to listen to your body in regards to what exercise are best FOR YOU, the same applies to nutrition: you will gain a sense of what actually helps and what doesn't.....

this.

Iceman1800
03-15-2012, 02:24 AM
One of my main reasons for daily shakes is time. I wake at 5am and leave for work.by 5:20. Having a premade shake waiting in the fridge frees up some time each morning instead of having to scramble some eggs.

Flexw1
03-15-2012, 08:38 AM
From my thirty years of experience I would say that some Daily Vitamins are needed along with a good diet. Aminos can help when training very hard but mainly a good diet and the vitamins.
It's no secret to gaining or losing weight it's mostly about your calorie intake and your exercise.
Large amounts of food spread out over the course of a day coupled with medium rep/ssets for muscle mass gain. For weight loss less calories spread out over the course of a day more meals the better(small) of course expend more claories than you take in; coupled with high rep sets and over the course of time you will either gain or lose weight and muscle.
I've been there and done that with the high supplement taking thing and say that you can sure do without it and your body won't complain and still will respond
And yes I have competed in both All Natural Powerlifting and Bodybuilding back in the mid to late 80's.

nlsecor
03-15-2012, 10:44 PM
I don't know why people always consider using supplements when it comes to working-out (i'd understand if someone wants to be a big time body builder but) i think supplements are not needed at all for working oneself into shape nor for developing moderate muscles.
I've never used any supplements of any sort, and i don't think i'll ever have any reason to use them

I'd agree they are overused. However, they are a tool, much like a gym. You don't really need a gym to get in shape either. Doesn't mean people are ignorant for using one. People set goals and look for an edge to achieve them.