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rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 04:41 AM
So about a year ago I hurt my left shoulder on a follow through swinging at a pitch in the yearly softball game. The ache comes and goes but appears to me front or the top part of my shoulder or rotator cuff.

Depending on sleeping positions and the weather, the ache comes and goes but pressing movements while working out really bother me and I can hardly do military presses at all now but when the injury happened I could do them a little bit and I was cool as long as I did not over train the area.

Here is the thing. I am also a part time sparring partner and a boxer and I do fight occasionally and hit a heavy bag twice a week but this does not seem to bother my shoulder whatsoever. For those of you who hit a bag, you know how it is so I am wondering why the bag does not bother me but the overhead pressing stuff does.

Also, declines are good, inclines ok, and flat BB is horrible for the shoulder.

Also, resting a week or so seems to weaken the shoulder and make it ache more. Like right now I am on day 5 of a total rest (except for squats) and my shoulder actually aches some right now but if I spar tonight, it would feel loose and better.


Thanks for reading

DocTats
02-01-2012, 04:51 AM
I used to box a bit when I was a teen and up until a year ago, still used the heavy bag and speed bag regularly. I think hitting the bag aggravated my shoulder (which was already messed up from weights), I couldn't jab with my left so swithced to southpaw. Then my right shoulder started to bother me, only punch I could throw with my right was a hook and uppercut (not jab and no straight rights or crosses). With both my shoulders sketchy, these are the punches I am reduced to...left jab (it's okay now), straight left, left cross, left hook, left uppercut, right hook and uppercut. I basically just shadowbox now and do the speed bag

I do external rotation work and it seems to have helped but the only pushing movements I can do nowadays are dips (although for many, they are shoulder killers), overhead press as long as I don't go too wide and close grip bench press (wider grips seems to really aggravate it more than an actual movement)

painthappy
02-01-2012, 05:05 AM
Good luck... I have the same issue with my right shoulder, but the injury was done at a slightly different angle.

I was benching more weight than my weak shoulders allowed. It was many years ago and I didn't have enough knowledge on lifting. Doing more vanity muscles than I should have. Benching got better, but shoulder started getting sore. Eventually one day, the shoulder let go. I was done.

To this day, I can't do a flat bench press.

I took some time off from lifting and starting doing a complete program like starting strength. I started with ridiculously low weight like the program suggeted and every new workout day, added 5 lbs. It actually took two months, but I started seeing results. Lifting more weight, and my shoulder issue slowly went away.

It's not gone for good, but it's stronger than ever before, and the secret for me is this: Dumbbells and different exercises.

I honestly don't think I can bench with a bar anymore. I don't think a cuff can repair without surgery. So it's either that, or try and live with it. Right now I'm trying to live with it. I can only incline or decline with dumbbells. The dumbbells give me a great range of motion and twisting so I'm not locked into a bad position that hurts my shoulder.

I slowly worked up my overhead press also with dumbbells. Somedays it might get tweaky... Shoveling snow, or whatever... and I will hit the weights but quickly realize I need to just not do certain exercises that day. If it's sore, you can't push through it. You have to let it rest for a week.

Well... That's been my experience with a shoulder / cuff injury.

rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 05:13 AM
Yeh, a buddy of mine said since my injury was 14 months ago, there is no use in resting it. I either have it scoped or take a few days off and start using DB's for the ROM and start with a light weight.

Yeh, my left jab his horrible now thanks to the shoulder so my right cross and upper cut have become vicious but without that left jab, I will never be a pro, lol.


So can anyone confirm that since my injury has been a year or more ago, that my options are being careful and living with it, or surgery but a few weeks of total rest will not help me due to some probable scar tissue build up since I did not nip this in the bud from the git go.


SO have you guys had success with pulling movements even with a bum shoulder?

DocTats
02-01-2012, 05:31 AM
Yeh, a buddy of mine said since my injury was 14 months ago, there is no use in resting it. I either have it scoped or take a few days off and start using DB's for the ROM and start with a light weight.

Yeh, my left jab his horrible now thanks to the shoulder so my right cross and upper cut have become vicious but without that left jab, I will never be a pro, lol.


So can anyone confirm that since my injury has been a year or more ago, that my options are being careful and living with it, or surgery but a few weeks of total rest will not help me due to some probable scar tissue build up since I did not nip this in the bud from the git go.


SO have you guys had success with pulling movements even with a bum shoulder?

When my shoulder was at its worst, I couldn't do wide grip pullups nor do a dead hang from a chin bar. I couldn't do back squats because the external torque when holding the bar was killing my shoulder but luckily my gym has a safety squat bar. Rows were okay as well as cleans.

Just working around the problem. doing external rotation, stretching (I have an awesome shiatsu therapist that does active release type work and it seems to increased my ROM) and avoiding aggravating movements helped for me although everyone is different and shoulders are very complex. It's not 100% and probably never will be but I can do most anything nowaday except the pushing exercises that I excluded from my "can do" list. But you know, smart thing to do was to probably go to a sports med doc, get proper physical therapy but I'm stubborn

MecGen
02-01-2012, 05:34 AM
Hello
The thing is with shoulder injuries, they are never the same from one person to the next. This includes the exercises that aggravate it, for me all that is left is military overhead presses on a smith. I am now into week three of rehab and it seems to be getting better with following specific rotator cuff exercises. Pulling exercises are no problem what-so-ever for me. Shoulder pain is basically tearing of the soft tissues, basically how, where, how bad and what direction the tear (even microscopic) will dictate what you can or can't do.

The only real way to find out is to get a MRI which will be needed for surgery anyways. Seeing a doc is a good thing too :) a round of NSAID can go a long way in breaking the cycle of inflammation. Its been my experience that they will not operate unless you are damb near crippled, meaning if you box you are better then most.

Search "shoulder" in the Over35 section for hours of fun reading

Good luck

rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 05:55 AM
So I think I will try this for a few weeks.

Monday- Legs
Tuesday- light sparring
Wednesday- pulling
Thursday - OFF
Friday- rotator cuff light rehab work


If all goes well I may do the RC work twice weekly.


Thanks for all the help and can anyone recommend a good rotator cuff specific routine for someone rehabing?

mjf100215
02-01-2012, 05:59 AM
Or you could go get an MRI to see if it's torn and requires work?

rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 06:15 AM
Or you could go get an MRI to see if it's torn and requires work?



Unless I can get a back alley MRI, I may not do it, considering I have no insurance.


How much $ do they run?

mslman71
02-01-2012, 06:18 AM
Everyone thinks they've hurt their RC because that's generally the only structure(s) they know about in the shoulder. The fact is that there's a lot of stuff in there and while the RC is prone to injury it's not the only thing you can injure. You could've damaged the labrum, LHB tendon, a bursa, some other non RC tendon or ligament, cartilage, or of course the RC itself. All of these things are inter-related so damage to one can ultimately lead to damage to other(s). How you proceed with training and recovery depends on what you've hurt. Have a professional (i.e., an MD) take a look at you and see if they can narrow down the possibilities before you potentially do more damage; god forbid irreversible damage. Trust me, the irreversible kind really sucks.

HoustonTXMuscle
02-01-2012, 06:19 AM
As mentioned by others, external rotations and other stretching exercises have helped me in the past. For several months now, I always do a series of stretching exercises prior to upper body work; internal and external rotations, cable shoulder abductions to 75 degrees and cable shoulder flexions to 75 degrees.

mslman71
02-01-2012, 06:20 AM
Unless I can get a back alley MRI, I may not do it, considering I have no insurance.
How much $ do they run?

There are a set of clinical exams that a doctor can do to narrow down potential sources of injury that do not involve expensive imaging procedures. You should be able to go to find a decent sports medicine physician, tell them up front you want to pay cash and can they negotiate a cash payment rate, and go in. It shouldn't cost more than $100-$200. Be sure to explain your financial/insurance state to the doctor. Sometimes they'll work something in at a steeply discounted rate, especially at university hospitals.

MrNismo
02-01-2012, 07:10 AM
I certainly agree with consulting a professional but understand the financial restrictions to doing so.

You could also just try laying off the things like OH pressing that really aggravate it for a month or so while you rigidly follow a rehab program like this:

A0ONHZmsFec

This made a HUGE difference for me though I was never really injured so much as just having massive mobility and imbalance issue.

Also adding scapular wallslides multiple times daily helped me. I could not come close to keeping my hands close to the wall when I first started. Feet are about a foot away from the floor and butt and upper back should stay in contact:

AXcRFBFuo-c

BillyBatts
02-01-2012, 07:47 AM
What helped me immensely was the following stretching exercises:

The purpose of these stretching exercises is to force your shoulders back straight to correct the rounding out of your shoulders due to too many days sitting at your desk or through poor posture.

1.Stand straight with both elbows at your sides and your hands pointing forward;
2.While your elbows remain touching your sides, rotate your elbows slowly until the palms of your hands are facing straight; and
3.Stretch your elbows and palms backwards as far as you can (remember to keep your elbows at your side).

Alternatively, you can stand straight with elbows at your side and pull a towel as hard as you can to stretch your shoulders backwards.

CardinalRB34
02-01-2012, 08:12 AM
like mentioned.. do all the rotator cuff strengthening exercise you can. ANother one you can do is a bent over rear delt fly, but holding the dumbell completely opposite of what you'd normally do. Hold the dumbell with your palms facing up. GO very light with this. I would start off my doing all these strength exercises almost EOD.

Range of motion exercises.. I like laying on a flat bench - extend my arms straight over my head holding 2-5 pound dumbells - slowly try to get my hands over my head to drop to the floor. Keep your arms straight and keep the dumbells as close to the floor as you can get them - circle towards your legs and then back up. You can do the whole ROM exercise backwards also. Also, stretch your pecs everyday and shoulders. My faves include using a rope and throwing it behind one shoulder with my one arm held up high and pulling the rope from the bottom with the other arm. Then you reverse that... pull the bottom arm up with the rope that is extended above you.

Scapula flexion exercises also. I think it helps to have a half bosu ball. Have the flat side up - get in a push up position all the way up and just extend your arms as far as you can. You can also do full pushups, then do the further extension. You can reverse that by doing light cable rows and just contract your shoulder blades together as hard as you can. For the stretching you can also lay on the padded foam cylinder looking thing (can't think of the name of it) and put it between your shoulder blades and lay on it. Let your arms over head drop as far as you can get them.. let your shoulder blades drop.

I think the bosu pushups are great for stability, but there's some other stability exercises you can do. Take a weighted ball and hold it up against a wall with your arm straight making small circles. do it standing face to the wall or sideways.

like others have also said... it may not be a rotator. It could be an actual pec injury where it ties in or a bicep tendon injury up high.

rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 08:44 AM
Great, thanks fellas!


So can someone tell me why during rest (2-7 days of inactivity) the shoulder seems to bother me more. Like if I did 4-5 sets if push ups with medium sh width, it would feel better for a day or two. This is why I never extensively rested it.

Also, I have been sitting at my desk a lot more lately and that seems to make it worse and now while doing shoulder movements, I hear "creaking."

mslman71
02-01-2012, 08:58 AM
Great, thanks fellas!


So can someone tell me why during rest (2-7 days of inactivity) the shoulder seems to bother me more. Like if I did 4-5 sets if push ups with medium sh width, it would feel better for a day or two. This is why I never extensively rested it.

Also, I have been sitting at my desk a lot more lately and that seems to make it worse and now while doing shoulder movements, I hear "creaking."

Just guessing, but it might have something to do with joint laxity and concentricity within the joint.. That is, by working the joint you are keeping tension in it, and this is providing stability. Again, just a guess. Movement also helps stimulate the production and movement of the fluids in the joint capsule which provide nutrients to cartilage. I think I remember reading somewhere that this provides some anti-inflammatory properties within the capsule, though probably not for the rest of the joint.

As far as sitting at your desk, sit upright and pull your shoulders back. Sit as close to the keyboard as possible.

rightwingjedi
02-01-2012, 09:13 AM
Just guessing, but it might have something to do with joint laxity and concentricity within the joint.. That is, by working the joint you are keeping tension in it, and this is providing stability. Again, just a guess. Movement also helps stimulate the production and movement of the fluids in the joint capsule which provide nutrients to cartilage. I think I remember reading somewhere that this provides some anti-inflammatory properties within the capsule, though probably not for the rest of the joint.

As far as sitting at your desk, sit upright and pull your shoulders back. Sit as close to the keyboard as possible.


Cools thx. So with the creaking I may have a joint issue.

Can someone give me 2-3 back exercises that will not hurt the shoulder? I can say for sure that over hand pull downs are out.

Also I am moving to 12 reps with no failure for 2 weeks on upper body but still all out on squats.

mslman71
02-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Cools thx. So with the creaking I may have a joint issue.

Possibly. This is what the doctor is for.



Can someone give me 2-3 back exercises that will not hurt the shoulder? I can say for sure that over hand pull downs are out.

Not without knowing the nature of the injury. Even then a therapist is probably the best first source of information.

Robody
02-01-2012, 10:57 AM
Could be anything shoulder related. An MRI would really really help diagnose it. I know a guy who tore his bicep and didnt know it for a year, hardly hurt. Another, couldnt sleep for months, sharp pains using the tv remote and turned out to be frozen shoulder-- which goes away on it's own

fastnoypi
02-02-2012, 11:35 AM
to the OP, i wouldn't do any pressing movements of any kind till you have had an MRI examination. At best you might have some tendonosis swelling in your shoulders which you can rehab, at worse you have a tear somewhere in there. According to my PT and confirmation with an MRI/radiologist feedback, mine was caused from a muscle imbalance in my shoulders from pressing movements (ie heavy bench) and not enough pulling movements. During the PT sessions, i did alot of internal and external rotations with light dumbells, rotating exercises like rolling a ball on a wall in front of you and laterally, rows and lat pulls. plenty of ice and off/on hot pads too to promote circulation.
Good luck.