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iostream71
01-29-2012, 09:54 PM
Not sure if this is the place to ask, but here goes. I'm 41 and always have been skinny at 5'11" and 140s. I've been trying to gain some healthy weight by putting on some muscle, but all I'm ending up with is a gut, which I've never had. I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days. This is my typical diet:

breakfast:
2 eggs
whole grain bread slice
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup milk

lunch and dinner:
4(?) oz chicken
whole grain bread slice
bowl of spinach
1 cup of blueberries or strawberries
1 cup milk

snacks 2 times in the day:
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup almonds

According to bmr calculators, I should be able to eat upwards of 2500 calories a day just to maintain, so why am I getting this gut when I'm eating far less than 2000?

sibe
01-29-2012, 10:15 PM
Everyone is different! Calculators are a rough guide only. Maybe you over estimated the amount of calories you burn. Or you under estimate calories consumed (things like sugar and cream in coffee etc etc often gets overlooked).

If you are gaining fat you either need to consume less calories or burn more. Sadly there is no line drawn in the sand ...you have to figure out what works for you. Keep the food clean and good luck bud

Hopefully someone will be along soon with much more detail/experience than me! Just don't give up bud

Edit - and some fat gain whilst bulking is normal...the goal is to keep it as minimal as possible. lean muscle gain

alex2363
01-29-2012, 10:23 PM
you cant really control where the fat goes when you gain weight. yuo may have to increase your workout activity to off set the gut. maybe increase core workouts to make your mid section stronger.

iostream71
01-29-2012, 10:26 PM
I'm pretty accurate with what I'm eating. Could it be that I'm eating too few calories and my body is trying to store the fat?

mrmrbill
01-29-2012, 10:30 PM
I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days.

What's the routine?

iostream71
01-29-2012, 10:37 PM
What's the routine?

M
pull up 4x5
deadlift 4x5
bent over row 4x5
1 arm row 2x10

W
bench 4x5
incline bench 4x5
overhead press 4x5
dips 4x5

F
squat 4x5
deadlift 4x5
abs

Probably a crappy workout. I'm open to improvements.

BrotherWolf
01-29-2012, 10:48 PM
Probably a crappy workout. I'm open to improvements.

it's only crappy if you make it crappy
when did you start lifting ? what are your lifting numbers... when you started and now?

there could be a 100 reasons why you are growing a gut but at 140 lbs 5'11"
you're quite light , your body is probably lacking muscle mass and that can take a while to build if you 'don't eat enough and disregard the gut ..
Does your gut equals more weight or is it just a visible gut but your weight stays pretty much the same??

BrotherWolf
01-29-2012, 10:49 PM
I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days.

lifting/eating moderately will give you moderate results

mrmrbill
01-29-2012, 11:00 PM
It lacks frequency/per part if you're new to building LBM: "I'm 41 and always have been skinny ... 140s." A 3-day full body would help. Several flavours, All-Pros, Starting Strength, 5x5s under a variety of names (such as Reg Park, etc...). The exercise selection is mostly decent, just strung together inefficiently for level.

bbsitum
01-29-2012, 11:10 PM
Yours metabolism change from fast to slow or medium. It happened to me at my 41. I was 190 pounds at 7/05, and I was 235 6 months latter. I have photos of that. So stop eat. As simple like it.

bigtallox
01-29-2012, 11:35 PM
I've been trying to gain some healthy weight by putting on some muscle, but all I'm ending up with is a gut, which I've never had. I lift moderate weights

That's your problem, your training. In general, gaining too much fat while bulking points to less than ideal training, but IMHO your comment ( about moderate weights ) does too.

tsoden
01-30-2012, 03:37 AM
It's true...when you hit the gym you should be sweating by mid workout when working larger muscle groups. You gotta challenge yourself with the weights as well, but do so while remaining safe. Challenge could be heavier weight or it could be increased reps.

drudixon
01-30-2012, 04:26 AM
Not sure if this is the place to ask, but here goes. I'm 41 and always have been skinny at 5'11" and 140s. I've been trying to gain some healthy weight by putting on some muscle, but all I'm ending up with is a gut, which I've never had. I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days. This is my typical diet:

breakfast:
2 eggs
whole grain bread slice
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup milk

lunch and dinner:
4(?) oz chicken
whole grain bread slice
bowl of spinach
1 cup of blueberries or strawberries
1 cup milk

snacks 2 times in the day:
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup almonds

According to bmr calculators, I should be able to eat upwards of 2500 calories a day just to maintain, so why am I getting this gut when I'm eating far less than 2000?

2500 is enough for me to gain weight and I have 40 lbs on you.

joea9
01-30-2012, 04:36 AM
-Estimate maintenance using some calculator
-Eat just above your estimated 'maintenance' for a trial period
-Lift heavy
-Slowly amend your calory intake by observing results of the above. If you're gaining a gut, decrease calory intake slightly. If you're not gaining, increase it, you will get to know how many calories your body needs.

iostream71
01-30-2012, 07:03 AM
Thanks for all of the advice. By gut I mean that the rest of my body shows little fat, but my stomach is popping out. I probably am not lifting enough, but I can't risk heavy weights due to a spinal fusion. I've been lifting weights in different formats for several years, but it was mostly just for health and not to gain muscle. I think my metabolism is just shot since turning 40. Could someone type out a workout using home weights that might work better?

emp1acur
01-30-2012, 07:27 AM
-Estimate maintenance using some calculator
-Eat just above your estimated 'maintenance' for a trial period
-Lift heavy
-Slowly amend your calory intake by observing results of the above. If you're gaining a gut, decrease calory intake slightly. If you're not gaining, increase it, you will get to know how many calories your body needs.

^^^^ This. Not sure what you mean by "home weights"....what exactly do you have at home.

Another poster mentioned good full body routines, but here is a link to those and others, plus one of the best nutrition links regarding calculating calories etc.

Routines
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115643271

Nutrition
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 07:39 AM
Thanks for all of the advice. By gut I mean that the rest of my body shows little fat, but my stomach is popping out. I probably am not lifting enough, but I can't risk heavy weights due to a spinal fusion. I've been lifting weights in different formats for several years, but it was mostly just for health and not to gain muscle. I think my metabolism is just shot since turning 40. Could someone type out a workout using home weights that might work better?

Spinal fusion will take away some spine flexibility but surely will not diminish the amount of weight you can lift.. unless you just had surgery of course
but anyway it is clear that you are expecting too much, from your limited effort you can only expect limited results and it has nothing to do with the type of routine you do

billb7581
01-30-2012, 07:54 AM
Do the All Pro simple beginner routine and I guarantee you will be huffing and puffing and sweating your ass off LOL.

iostream71
01-30-2012, 08:03 AM
It's not that I'm intentionally putting in little effort, it's just that I was told to not lift heavy. I had spinal fusion/metal rod implanted years ago for s****osis and heaving lifting puts too much strain on the discs.

By home weights I mean a bar, rack, and 5/10/25 lb weights. I was trying to find something that is mostly compound movements. It just seems that I run though my routine too fast with just those exercises. I'll take a look at the recommendations.

chodan9
01-30-2012, 08:11 AM
It's not that I'm intentionally putting in little effort, it's just that I was told to not lift heavy. I had spinal fusion/metal rod implanted years ago for s****osis and heaving lifting puts too much strain on the discs.

I can relate as I have had back surgery (partial disc removal)
I focused my first couple years building up my back strength before even shooting for more intensity.
I routinely go very heavy for me now on squats deads rows etc.
In the end our bodies will not change without a reason, we have to push them beyond our current boundaries to trigger that growth response, otherwise the extra calories will just turn to fat.

latebloomingmom
01-30-2012, 08:24 AM
M
pull up 4x5
deadlift 4x5
bent over row 4x5
1 arm row 2x10

W
bench 4x5
incline bench 4x5
overhead press 4x5
dips 4x5

F
squat 4x5
deadlift 4x5
abs

Probably a crappy workout. I'm open to improvements.
you uh...lifting any weights with these numbers?

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 08:37 AM
I had spinal fusion/metal rod implanted years ago for s****osis and heaving lifting puts too much strain on the discs.


Define heavy !!!! I bet your doc told you not to lift following the procedure but not for the rest of your life , after all what do they have you do at rehab ?? lifting weight to strengthen of your spine

There are many athletes who had the same procedure and are back in business, lifting makes your bones stronger .. now running and contact sports I can see requiring longer periods to rehab but weight lifting ?
all you need to do is be careful with exercises that target the specific area of your spinal fusion and strengthen it gradually ..

chodan9
01-30-2012, 08:42 AM
Define heavy !!!! I bet your doc told you not to lift following the procedure but not for the rest of your life ,
after my surgery my Dr said "dont lift more than 50 pounds"
I asked "for how long?"
"forever" was what he said
needless to say I haven't followed that advice

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 08:48 AM
after my surgery my Dr said "dont lift more than 50 pounds"
I asked "for how long?"
"forever" was what he said
needless to say I haven't followed that advice

You should've gotten a second opinion from a sport therapist .. obviously your doc was wrong ;)

bbsitum
01-30-2012, 08:54 AM
after my surgery my Dr said "dont lift more than 50 pounds"
I asked "for how long?"
"forever" was what he said
needless to say I haven't followed that advice

It accrue to me that body building is highly scientific, especially how to avoid get hurt. Around this days I read a lot about exercises, posture impact, push pull ratio, straps ... . I have material to read for months if not years to come. I'm very happy that I didn't seriously work out until Internet time.
It seems to me that many scientist in medical field think like me because at Internet is a lot scientific studies about body building, weight lifting and even single exercises.

iostream71
01-30-2012, 09:03 AM
My initial doc said I shouldn't have any limitations years ago. But in recent years, I've had increasing back pain and I've seen a couple of different spinal docs who said they wouldn't recommend more than 25-50lbs. I just don't want to make things worse.

bbsitum
01-30-2012, 09:13 AM
My initial doc said I shouldn't have any limitations years ago. But in recent years, I've had increasing back pain and I've seen a couple of different spinal docs who said they wouldn't recommend more than 25-50lbs. I just don't want to make things worse.
Just like an idea that can be wrong for yours situation check at Internet about pull downs, pull ups, Nautilus pullovers vs rows, dead lift even squats. First one pull ups spine vs. second ones that press spine.

CardinalRB34
01-30-2012, 09:26 AM
sometimes the initial gut "Bloat" is mistaken as the individual actually getting fatter. If ur eating more than you're used to... your stomach may need some time adjusting to the new quantities.

also.. eat more meat. Add some potatoes, rice, and pasta. You gotta eat to grow!!

lastly - see if you can increase your workout frequency. I personally believe 8-12 reps per set is better for size gains.

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 09:46 AM
My initial doc said I shouldn't have any limitations years ago. But in recent years, I've had increasing back pain and I've seen a couple of different spinal docs who said they wouldn't recommend more than 25-50lbs. I just don't want to make things worse.

that sounds ridiculous on what exercises ? are they making any suggestions on what exercise you should do to strengthen your back or should not do to aggravate it ??
go and see a sport therapist, doctors are hardly qualified to give advice on exercising, weightlifting and sports in general unless they are practicing themselves
it's not a coincidence they usually refer you to a specialist for rehab

latebloomingmom
01-30-2012, 10:47 AM
maybe its me...but I have a hard time figuring out how you are gonna get those muscles to
grow lifting 25-50lbs.........your surplus calories are just being stored..

iostream71
01-30-2012, 10:52 AM
I don't recall any specific exercises. I just remember them saying anything that compresses the spine is bad for me. I'm not looking to be the next arnold...just maybe put on 10 or 15 lbs. I'll try heavier and see how it goes, but if my back snaps in half, ya'll are paying my medical bill haha

mrmrbill
01-30-2012, 11:02 AM
I'll try heavier and see how it goes, but if my back snaps in half, ya'll are paying my medical bill haha

Putting aside for a moment whether you should/shouldn't -- if you follow this route -- at least study form tutorials in the Ex. section, get form advice from some of the more experienced lifters, and post your own form vids as early as possible to nip bad form habits in the bud.

It's not the poundage that messes you up so much as poor form that you may not even notice in the mirror.

iostream71
01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Putting aside for a moment whether you should/shouldn't -- if you follow this route -- at least study form tutorials in the Ex. section, get form advice from some of the more experienced lifters, and post your own form vids as early as possible to nip bad form habits in the bud.

It's not the poundage that messes you up so much as poor form that you may not even notice in the mirror.

I've always gone for form, but I'll be sure to look over again. One other question I have is that I seem to blow through a routine in less than 1/2 hour. How is people do similar ones and seem to spend over an hour? Am I going too fast?

mrmrbill
01-30-2012, 12:31 PM
One other question I have is that I seem to blow through a routine in less than 1/2 hour. How is people do similar ones and seem to spend over an hour? Am I going too fast?

I would imagine the lighter loads you're doing require less between-set rest time. Others may be doing heavier, more taxing sets. That said, activity speed is individual and relatively unimportant. OTOH -- if you smoke after sex -- you're probably doing it too fast.

rand18m
01-30-2012, 01:35 PM
My spine surgeon told me I could do whatever I wanted as long as I don't put a heavy axial load on my spine. Simply put, no squats, deadlifts or shrugs. That leaves all kinds of exercises to choose from to get the same results. I design my routine around my back isssue, I am NOT interested in another back surgery. Oh, and leg press is out for me as well. I consider that worst for the lower lumbar than properly done squats as it puts a tremendous load on the lower spine. So there are plenty of ways to workout with intensity, illicit muscle gains and not jeopardize you back. Good luck!

jbreham
01-30-2012, 05:58 PM
Can you afford a six day a week work out plan? Can you go to a Monday/Thursday: Back, Chest; Tuesday/Friday: Shoulders, Triceps, Biceps; Wednesday/Saturday: Legs, Glutes? Then 3 days (preferably Mon. Wed. Fri.) do a core routine? Keep 3-5 exercises per muscle group at 4 sets, with 6-12 reps. Go HEAVY 2 weeks; more reps 3 weeks, then back to heavy. 30-60 seconds in between sets will take care of your cardio needs. I just described Arnold's old basic routine. Works for me, although I would like more mass also. But I'm not going to compromise definition for it, seeing I came from fat guy before. All the best!

iostream71
01-30-2012, 06:59 PM
My spine surgeon told me I could do whatever I wanted as long as I don't put a heavy axial load on my spine. Simply put, no squats, deadlifts or shrugs. That leaves all kinds of exercises to choose from to get the same results. I design my routine around my back isssue, I am NOT interested in another back surgery. Oh, and leg press is out for me as well. I consider that worst for the lower lumbar than properly done squats as it puts a tremendous load on the lower spine. So there are plenty of ways to workout with intensity, illicit muscle gains and not jeopardize you back. Good luck!
What kind of exercises do you use in place of those? Is something like incline BP bad? I'd assume shoulder press is also bad.


Can you afford a six day a week work out plan? Can you go to a Monday/Thursday: Back, Chest; Tuesday/Friday: Shoulders, Triceps, Biceps; Wednesday/Saturday: Legs, Glutes? Then 3 days (preferably Mon. Wed. Fri.) do a core routine? Keep 3-5 exercises per muscle group at 4 sets, with 6-12 reps. Go HEAVY 2 weeks; more reps 3 weeks, then back to heavy. 30-60 seconds in between sets will take care of your cardio needs. I just described Arnold's old basic routine. Works for me, although I would like more mass also. But I'm not going to compromise definition for it, seeing I came from fat guy before. All the best!
I think that might be a bit much for me to tackle right now.

rand18m
01-30-2012, 07:11 PM
Leg extensions, various leg curls, back extensions, single leg work is a must imo, split squats, lunges etc.

Any pressing exercise is fine, do flat, decline, incline are all fine. I do a seated smith machine military press for shoulders and it's not a problem because your lumbar is supported and it's not going to be that much weight. Nothing like you would do say with a deadlift.

Also all pulling exercises, for the most part are fine and there is a lot of them. And naturally you should already be doing core work and make a strong effort to keep your core as strong as possible. Particularly since you won't be doing the big two, squats and deadlifts. Good luck and if you have more questions as away!

iostream71
01-31-2012, 08:25 PM
Thanks for the advice, lady and gents

websterc
01-31-2012, 10:09 PM
Not sure if this is the place to ask, but here goes. I'm 41 and always have been skinny at 5'11" and 140s. I've been trying to gain some healthy weight by putting on some muscle, but all I'm ending up with is a gut, which I've never had. I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days. This is my typical diet:

breakfast:
2 eggs
whole grain bread slice
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup milk

lunch and dinner:
4(?) oz chicken
whole grain bread slice
bowl of spinach
1 cup of blueberries or strawberries
1 cup milk

snacks 2 times in the day:
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup almonds

According to bmr calculators, I should be able to eat upwards of 2500 calories a day just to maintain, so why am I getting this gut when I'm eating far less than 2000?

According to the diet you posted you are eating nearly 2000 calories per day in ALMONDS alone!

db_ggmm
02-01-2012, 08:09 AM
hah hah...

drudixon
02-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Your issue is you calculated bmr wrong. You're bmr is 1565.7. Add 200 for farting around and maybe 300 for those light workouts you're doing and you're at 2000 calories per day. If your metabolism is slow, then 1750 is more accurate as a maintenance target. For non-workout days you should eat less. If you truly are eating 2500 a day, then you're about 750 calories over target and in just 5 days you've added 1lb of pure fat. Rinse and repeat several months and your belly is explained. Fix workout, eat no more than 250-300 calories over maintenance (for your size), and problem solved.

Donkeyno9
02-01-2012, 02:47 PM
The best pound for pound deadlifter ever had severe scholiosis.
klXVGdlLx-I

themyth2009
02-01-2012, 03:01 PM
Not sure if this is the place to ask, but here goes. I'm 41 and always have been skinny at 5'11" and 140s. I've been trying to gain some healthy weight by putting on some muscle, but all I'm ending up with is a gut, which I've never had. I lift moderate weights(push/pull routine)3 times a week and do about 30 minutes on an elliptical 3 off days. This is my typical diet:

breakfast:
2 eggs
whole grain bread slice
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup milk

lunch and dinner:
4(?) oz chicken
whole grain bread slice
bowl of spinach
1 cup of blueberries or strawberries
1 cup milk

snacks 2 times in the day:
1 cup greek yogurt
1 cup almonds

According to bmr calculators, I should be able to eat upwards of 2500 calories a day just to maintain, so why am I getting this gut when I'm eating far less than 2000?

To me your diet sucks man. Looks light on the protein. High on carbs. No I didnt calculate eyeball and see almost zippo lean meat.


That's your problem, your training. In general, gaining too much fat while bulking points to less than ideal training, but IMHO your comment ( about moderate weights ) does too.

Gaining fat is more about diet than training intensity. Most of my lifting is in the moderate range.


It's true...when you hit the gym you should be sweating by mid workout when working larger muscle groups. You gotta challenge yourself with the weights as well, but do so while remaining safe. Challenge could be heavier weight or it could be increased reps.

I guess that is more individual. Some people sweat a ton others not so much.

jdtemple
02-01-2012, 06:29 PM
According to the diet you posted you are eating nearly 2000 calories per day in ALMONDS alone!I was going to say the same thing. Two cups of almonds is a bunch of calories.

iostream71
02-02-2012, 09:01 PM
The BMR I was using is based on base BMR value x activity level(moderate), which ends up around 2500 or so.

Sorry, that was a typo on the almonds. It's only a serving split through the day(30 or so).

Most days I get around 140-150 in protein. I didn't know it mattered where it came from.

Also, I'm trying to keep sodium under 1500, which I'm finding hard.

A lot of times I don't even make it to 1500 calories, which was why I asked
if I was eating too little and my body was going into starvation mode. I must have a small stomach, because I get nauseous from eating so much and this is apparently lightweight eating. Ok, I'll stop rambling...