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flyer7871
01-26-2012, 11:26 PM
Here are my one month pics. Can you guys please help me estimate my BF%. I welcome any further tips besides the ones im using with Leangains.
Really want to get lean by June.... Started at 191lbs, currently 186lbs..... My before pics are on my profile page.

drudixon
01-27-2012, 06:05 AM
Here are my one month pics. Can you guys please help me estimate my BF%. I welcome any further tips besides the ones im using with Leangains.
Really want to get lean by June.... Started at 191lbs, currently 186lbs..... My before pics are on my profile page.

Hard to tell in the pics. Youre stretched out. Id guess 12~15

freebirdmac
01-27-2012, 06:16 AM
It is hard to tell from those picts but it doesn't look like you have far to go. Are you considering a bulk come fall?

ntrllftr
01-27-2012, 07:39 AM
After looking at the photos...
I would say to build more muscle before worrying about losing weight.
Heavy compound ecercises along with a maintenance diet structured for your weight are your friends right now.

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. I`m not so worried about the actual weight. Just want to be lean, while not losing to much muscle. I eat a lot of protein, and cycle my carbs. I have struggled with my weight for most of my life. This time I really am determined to get lean, and stay that way. After following Leangains for a month. I have been getting leaner, my compound movements have had steady gains, and I1m actually doing weighted chins. Something I never thought I could do. I went from only being able to do about 5 reps w/BW to 12reps w/bw. and 6reps w/25lbs. Very happy with that.

geer_matt
01-27-2012, 11:28 AM
Go eat something man, look like a breeze would knock you over. Probably the worst thing you can do when lifting is to develop a fear of food.

I don't know man, I am 6'4" and around 195 and I look thicker than you, at 5'10" and 186, maybe something wrong with the pics.

JOHN GARGANI
01-27-2012, 12:44 PM
After looking at the photos...
I would say to build more muscle before worrying about losing weight.



THIS^^^^^^^^^




Go eat something man, look like a breeze would knock you over.

and THAT^^^^^^^^^


OP: I have to be frank, you simply have a paucity of any quality or dense muscle on your frame...your back is totally undeveloped....

and you seek MORE leanness???????

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 01:23 PM
Go eat something man, look like a breeze would knock you over. Probably the worst thing you can do when lifting is to develop a fear of food.

I don't know man, I am 6'4" and around 195 and I look thicker than you, at 5'10" and 186, maybe something wrong with the pics.


LOL!!!!!!! Just read this with my wife.. She cant stop laughing.

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 01:31 PM
Just read the comments w/ my wife... She can`t stop laughing... To have someone tell me to eat more is priceless. I take it as a compliment..
I dug up this picture of me when I was at about 220lbs. Shortly after my son was born.. I think i`m going to wait until I hit 170, then go on a bulk.
I have never tried to bulk on purpose... Still scared of going back to what I looked like before.

ntrllftr
01-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Just read the comments w/ my wife... She can`t stop laughing... To have someone tell me to eat more is priceless. I take it as a compliment..
I dug up this picture of me when I was at about 220lbs. Shortly after my son was born.. I think i`m going to wait until I hit 170, then go on a bulk.
I have never tried to bulk on purpose... Still scared of going back to what I looked like before.

Worst thing you could do. But it's your life. Do as you wish. By people saying eat more doesn't mean simply that. It means eat more of the right foods. A little research about lifting and nutrition will do you some good. Just don't complain later that people say that you don't look like a "lifter" after putting in a lot of hard work doing it the wrong whey.
Good luck!

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 01:52 PM
Worst thing you could do. But it's your life. Do as you wish. By people saying eat more doesn't mean simply that. It means eat more of the right foods. A little research about lifting and nutrition will do you some good. Just don't complain later that people say that you don't look like a "lifter" after putting in a lot of hard work doing it the wrong whey.
Good luck!

Thanks for the opinions guys. I will try to eat more of the right things, and see how it goes.

TenThreeFive
01-27-2012, 02:00 PM
First off the pictures are horrible. If you want people to comment and help at least put some effort in it yourself and provide decent pictures because these suck. I am going to go against what everyone else is saying. You are 188 at 5'10 and look a little skinny fat. I would eat 200kcal below maintenance (150g protein) and lift heavy doing mostly compounds. In 3 months after shaving you will look how you want.

Kraken
01-27-2012, 02:44 PM
Have to agree about the pics.

Here is the deal. Many people just aren't secure about posting pics, and rightfully so. None of us want to be judged negatively, and putting ourselves out there always feels like a risk.

That said, if you truly want real feedback, you need to take pics, all in good lighting (and preferably the same lighting every time you take take them because lighting can really mess up comparing pics), in normal poses (not awkward angle pics and that garbage) and a reasonable size.

We all start somewhere, and being in the O35 section, you generally won't have trolls messing with you. I wouldn;t recommend posting them outside of this section though, because I am pretty sure you will never want to post pics anywhere ever again if you did. Outside of this section, they can be brutal and trolling isn't monitored very well.

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 03:10 PM
First off the pictures are horrible. If you want people to comment and help at least put some effort in it yourself and provide decent pictures because these suck. I am going to go against what everyone else is saying. You are 188 at 5'10 and look a little skinny fat. I would eat 200kcal below maintenance (150g protein) and lift heavy doing mostly compounds. In 3 months after shaving you will look how you want.
Thanks for the advice. What about cardio? I run about 2-3 times a week lift 3

TenThreeFive
01-27-2012, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the advice. What about cardio? I run about 2-3 times a week lift 3

Depends on your goals, if you are going for aesthetics then I wouldn't do cardio but add (one 20 minute session of HIIT per week starting in 3rd month). If you love running then make sure you calculate you TDEE and minus the 200kcal from the total. (This may be broscience but I think the running sessions are fighting with your weight training sessions and affecting your body composition.

flyer7871
01-27-2012, 09:18 PM
Depends on your goals, if you are going for aesthetics then I wouldn't do cardio but add (one 20 minute session of HIIT per week starting in 3rd month). If you love running then make sure you calculate you TDEE and minus the 200kcal from the total. (This may be broscience but I think the running sessions are fighting with your weight training sessions and affecting your body composition.

Please elaborate. Running is fighting my lifting sessions how?

BrotherWolf
01-27-2012, 10:41 PM
I think i`m going to wait until I hit 170, then go on a bulk.


LOL why ??? makes no sense whatsoever eat at maintenance lift heavy bust your ass in the gym and next year you'll weight more and look leaner

unless of course you're one of those guys who wants to be very skinny and ripped ..

BrotherWolf
01-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Please elaborate. Running is fighting my lifting sessions how?

here's a good example ..
lets say you are trying to look somewhat similar to "TenThreeFive"
he is your height 10lbs lighter but looks bigger than you at 188lbs ..
if you lost another 10lbs you will not look like him , you would have lost some muscles and look like a refugee in a war camp

TenThreeFive
01-27-2012, 10:47 PM
Please elaborate. Running is fighting my lifting sessions how?

Depends on your goals. To simplify it without going into too much detail your body tries to lighten up when doing long distance running (catabolic) Your body is anabolic when lifting weights. You can counter this by eating more calories but its a very difficult balance. I have tried running and lifting and my strength plummeted, my physique looked like crud and I had no energy. I tried to adjust calories but I couldn't find the balance. Once a week for cardio health would probably be fine but not for too long of a distance. HIIT once a week starting in May would be ideal for your situation. But again it depends on the look you are going for, I do this for aesthetics and aesthetics only. I get my cardio workout during my weightlifting sessions. (of course the health benefits come with it)

OutOfStep
01-27-2012, 11:13 PM
Please elaborate. Running is fighting my lifting sessions how?

Here's what a runner looks like:

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv288/rpa4745/100426_antwerp_belgium_dvv_marathon_antwerpen_male _waving_finger_near_finish_travel_photography_MG_2 112.jpg

I'm seeing a build completely devoid of muscle. If that's the build you're looking for then keep eating the way you are and by all means keep up that gay running bull****.

IronCharles
01-27-2012, 11:37 PM
I`m not so worried about the actual weight. Just want to be lean, while not losing to much muscle. .......... I really am determined to get lean, and stay that way. I think you may be in the wrong section of the internet. That's why you're getting a lot of derision from the regulars, because this is a bodybuilding website, not a "see how skinny you can get because you used to be fat" website. Most of us are trying to put on muscle, not get thinner.




Good luck with your goals.

OutOfStep
01-28-2012, 01:18 PM
Most of us are trying to put on muscle, not get thinner.




It's that thin streamline look again.

pharmamarketer
01-28-2012, 01:42 PM
Skinny jeans that way >>>>>>>>>Good luck with your body slimming goals

JerryB
01-28-2012, 02:04 PM
Thanks for the advice. What about cardio? I run about 2-3 times a week lift 3

Run to the dinner table and eat.

flyer7871
01-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Ok guys, I have heard the roar of the people. The following is what i`m doing currently.

Workout plan:

Mon: Squats, bench, chin ups weighted, incline bench

Tues: run 3 miles 26min

Wed: Deadlift, Pull ups, Shoulder press, Rows

Thurs: run 4 miles 36min

Fri: repeat mon workout. next week start with wed workout

Food:
1900 cals a day. on lift days my carbs are higher than on non lift days. Try to keep protein high on both days 150-190 grams
All carbs come in the form of complex such as brown rice, and veggies. I have been eating IF for a month from noon to 9pm.
did nott think I could eat this way, but have now grown used to it. Admittedly feel better. Go figure. Try to eat low fat.

Current weight 186
Supplements: Whey protien, bcaa`s before work outs, and creatine. omega 3 doctors orders.

I would like for you guys to please comment with any things you might see i`m missing in my plan. No I dont want to look like the runner in the above picture. LOL. Im` not trying to win any competitions, Just want to look good with my shirt off, for the first time in my life>LOL!!!
any help welcom

flyer7871
01-28-2012, 02:44 PM
Run to the dinner table and eat.

LOL!!!!!! Plan on it!!!!

ntrllftr
01-28-2012, 02:48 PM
I would like for you guys to please comment with any things you might see i`m missing in my plan. No I dont want to look like the runner in the above picture. LOL. Im` not trying to win any competitions, Just want to look good with my shirt off, for the first time in my life>LOL!!!
any help welcom

With that plan... You will have the look of a runner.

Split your compound movements up into seperate days. There are MANY articles on lifting and proper eating to increase muscle. Find them and research them.

IMMEDIATELY!

mrmrbill
01-28-2012, 02:54 PM
This part:

1900 cals a day.

is incompatible with this part ...... if you're trying to put on some add'l LBM:


Tues: run 3 miles 26min

Thurs: run 4 miles 36min

You need to increase the cals to account for the cardio or decrease the cardio (temporarily at least). At 12-15%, you're out-exercising your cal input and won't sustain LBM growth. Even w/out the cardio, 1900 is light for what you're doing.

Pike717
01-28-2012, 03:05 PM
flyer I completely understand your fear of eating more, after losing 74lbs this year I have to force myself to eat more than 2,000 cals per day. As far as your program goes I would increase your lifting to 4-5 days a week and reduce your running to 1 day per week. You can still gain lean muscle while doing cardio. Get yourself a tape and measure yourself as much as needed to put yourself at ease while eating more to build muscle. Your starting off alot better off than I did 12 months ago, I had alot more fat to get rid of with about the same amount of lean muscle as you currently do. Below is my current split. Pike

Day 1 = Legs, Calves
Day 2 = Lats, Biceps
Day 3 = Cardio, Abs
Day 4 = Chest, Triceps
Day 5 = Deadlifts, Traps
Day 6 = Cardio, Abs
Day 7 = Shoulders

TenThreeFive
01-28-2012, 03:12 PM
I would like for you guys to please comment with any things you might see i`m missing in my plan. No I dont want to look like the runner in the above picture. LOL. Im` not trying to win any competitions, Just want to look good with my shirt off, for the first time in my life>LOL!!!
any help welcom

Complete mess, as others have said do some research and start over.

flyer7871
01-28-2012, 07:09 PM
Complete mess, as others have said do some research and start over.
Ten Three five You and I are the same height, and you weigh about 10lbs less than I do... I would love to have your build. Please share your workout program, and how many cals you eat per day.

OutOfStep
01-28-2012, 07:43 PM
Try to eat low fat.



Why? No. Start doing some reading about nutrition. Ironwill has a link he posts in every thread. Read that. And knock it off with the running! If I were you, I'd 100% gear my efforts towards acquiring muscle mass. That means cool it with the running for a while and train as often as you can recover from. Running is going to interfere with that. Eat enough calories to support muscle growth and train all the major compounds with the goal of getting progressively stronger. Do this for the next couple of years and see where you're at.

flat6nut
01-28-2012, 08:42 PM
why? No. Start doing some reading about nutrition. Ironwill has a link he posts in every thread. Read that. And knock it off with the running! If i were you, i'd 100% gear my efforts towards acquiring muscle mass. That means cool it with the running for a while and train as often as you can recover from. Running is going to interfere with that. Eat enough calories to support muscle growth and train all the major compounds with the goal of getting progressively stronger. Do this for the next couple of years and see where you're at.


qft!

TenThreeFive
01-28-2012, 09:03 PM
Ten Three five You and I are the same height, and you weigh about 10lbs less than I do... I would love to have your build. Please share your workout program, and how many cals you eat per day.I appreciate that but its not that simple. My goal is below, not really the ideal physique for most here but its what is motivating me now. I am going to have to get down to 162-165 which most here would shiver at but again you have to do what makes you happy, not what others ideals are. Based on where you are now I think there are others here who can help you way more then I ever could. Cheers

http://www.google.ca/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.naturalphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/body-fat-percentage.jpg&sa=X&ei=QMEkT86_DNPTiAL4hdTWBw&ved=0CAsQ8wc4OQ&usg=AFQjCNH0dHB7tVTtSdE2gB9QWF0hx3PwcA


Why? No. Start doing some reading about nutrition. Ironwill has a link he posts in every thread. Read that. And knock it off with the running! If I were you, I'd 100% gear my efforts towards acquiring muscle mass. That means cool it with the running for a while and train as often as you can recover from. Running is going to interfere with that. Eat enough calories to support muscle growth and train all the major compounds with the goal of getting progressively stronger. Do this for the next couple of years and see where you're at.This is rock solid advice and a good place to start.

Kraken
01-28-2012, 09:11 PM
http://www.google.ca/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.naturalphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/body-fat-percentage.jpg&sa=X&ei=QMEkT86_DNPTiAL4hdTWBw&ved=0CAsQ8wc4OQ&usg=AFQjCNH0dHB7tVTtSdE2gB9QWF0hx3PwcA



Pretty dang close to what I want too. So close, yet so far, you know? I am at that stage where adding 10lbs of muscle takes several years of hard work and dedication. I want it before I am an "old man" lol

TenThreeFive
01-28-2012, 09:24 PM
Pretty dang close to what I want too. So close, yet so far, you know? I am at that stage where adding 10lbs of muscle takes several years of hard work and dedication. I want it before I am an "old man" lolWell you push for a goal that's a tad out of reach then you will never quit. That's the way I'm approaching this one. :D

BrotherWolf
01-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Ok guys, I have heard the roar of the people. The following is what i`m doing currently.

Workout plan:

Mon: Squats, bench, chin ups weighted, incline bench

Tues: run 3 miles 26min

Wed: Deadlift, Pull ups, Shoulder press, Rows

Thurs: run 4 miles 36min

Fri: repeat mon workout. next week start with wed workout


Nothing wrong with this as long as you always try to add weight to your lifts and not stagnate at the same weight for years , keep consistent and eat more than 1900 calories
the nutrition forum is actually helpful
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136691851

flyer7871
01-28-2012, 10:53 PM
Thanks WOLF , I plan on trying to eat close to 2000 cals on lift days and 1900 on non lift days. I`ve been making steady gains with my lifts so far. Even though I workout fasted... when I started I could not even do 4 chin ups. I`m now up to 12 x bw, 6x 20lbs DB... I do agree w/ others that I should cut out some of the running... I will curb that foe a while. its hard concept because running is what helped me lose quite a bit of weight..will also do some reading on the forum....

BrotherWolf
01-28-2012, 11:39 PM
Thanks WOLF , I plan on trying to eat close to 2000 cals on lift days and 1900 on non lift days. I`ve been making steady gains with my lifts so far. Even though I workout fasted... when I started I could not even do 4 chin ups. I`m now up to 12 x bw, 6x 20lbs DB... I do agree w/ others that I should cut out some of the running... I will curb that foe a while. its hard concept because running is what helped me lose quite a bit of weight..will also do some reading on the forum....

2000 calories isn't much

BrotherWolf
01-28-2012, 11:40 PM
Do this for the next couple of years and see where you're at.

I am willing to bet OP wants it by summer

:)

flyer7871
01-29-2012, 12:28 AM
Even at 1900 cals a day, eating clean is a lot of food. Going over 200 cals seems like alot of food. I could always go for to Woppers LOL.. Not willing to do that.... I will make an effort to eat more.

JOHN GARGANI
01-29-2012, 06:09 AM
Even at 1900 cals a day, eating clean is a lot of food. Going over 200 cals seems like alot of food


it depends on what your definition of eating "clean" is: if it means threadbare tilapia and only chicken breasts and steamed veggies, as some do, you are right, it will be a painful climb to 2000 calories....

eating clean is tantamount to EATING HEALTHY, where you just keep watch of the macros and know exactly how many calories over or under your MAINTENANCE level is.....

eating clean means a baked potato instead of fries, it means Health food store 7 grain breads instead of wonder bread....it means leaner cuts of meat, but all meats, especially including red meat....

it means eating fresh fruit, and salads...not just ugghhh steamed veggies.....

but as always, you simply have to know your maintenance level, set up your macros and then choose from such healthy foods....

cmoore
01-29-2012, 06:48 AM
If you want to run. Do sprints. Distance running confuses the body IMHO (especially us genetically skinny guys). The body will adapt to your activity. Teach it what you want with strength training.

chodan9
01-29-2012, 06:57 AM
In my experience, if your intensity in the gym is sufficient you probably wont have much trouble getting enough calories, your body will demand them, but if your workout isn't pushing your boundaries you will have a hard time taking in enough calories, because your body doesn't need them.

OutOfStep
01-29-2012, 09:44 AM
I plan on trying to eat close to 2000 cals on lift days and 1900 on non lift days

So after all this, he decides to add a whopping 100 calories to his intake...but only on lifting days. :rolleyes: Dude, you're either brain dead, or you simply refuse to listen to sound advice. This is the reason I normally troll guys like you rather than provide help. Because you're too dumb to recognize good advice when you get it.

Brackneyc
01-29-2012, 09:59 AM
Thanks WOLF , I plan on trying to eat close to 2000 cals on lift days and 1900 on non lift days. I`ve been making steady gains with my lifts so far. Even though I workout fasted... when I started I could not even do 4 chin ups. I`m now up to 12 x bw, 6x 20lbs DB... I do agree w/ others that I should cut out some of the running... I will curb that foe a while. its hard concept because running is what helped me lose quite a bit of weight..will also do some reading on the forum....

I lost 30 of my eventual 90lbs by doing nothing other than fixing the diet, and walking. The walking kept me away from the refrigerator (srs). I have my maintenance cals set, and log every bite of food. The number I have (which has been consistent over the past two years) is 2000. Now, before I get crushed here, this is the number I came up with based on the portions (surely 4oz of chicken in my case "may" actually be 5oz) and "quality" of the foods. I bet if I had it analyzed and weighed with a NASA scale, the cals would likely be higher. In my Fitday log however, I have taken the numbers from the labels of the foods I eat. I estimate the portions (but use the same measurements each time) for the fruits and veggies, so I suspect my numbers are not exactly 2000 (most likely a bit higher). For the purposes of my log however, that is what the numbers look like.

freebirdmac
01-29-2012, 10:10 AM
Even at 1900 cals a day, eating clean is a lot of food. Going over 200 cals seems like alot of food. I could always go for to Woppers LOL.. Not willing to do that.... I will make an effort to eat more.

Your maintenance cals should be around 2800 so you're in too large of a deficit. At 2300 you should lose a pound a week. Not necessarily scale, that doesn't always reflect progress when lifting. I agree with the guys here. At least eat at 2550 and recomposition.

I have to eat "clean" because of food allergies so I know how much food that is. But you can easily do this with good fats, beans, quinoa... a ton of wholesome foods.

latebloomingmom
01-29-2012, 10:26 AM
it depends on what your definition of eating "clean" is: if it means threadbare tilapia and only chicken breasts and steamed veggies, as some do, you are right, it will be a painful climb to 2000 calories....

eating clean is tantamount to EATING HEALTHY, where you just keep watch of the macros and know exactly how many calories over or under your MAINTENANCE level is.....

eating clean means a baked potato instead of fries, it means Health food store 7 grain breads instead of wonder bread....it means leaner cuts of meat, but all meats, especially including red meat....

it means eating fresh fruit, and salads...not just ugghhh steamed veggies.....

but as always, you simply have to know your maintenance level, set up your macros and then choose from such healthy foods....
this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
would be a good one to listen to
2000 calories for a grown man who is NOT on a cut? does not sound right to me..

BrotherWolf
01-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Even at 1900 cals a day, eating clean is a lot of food. Going over 200 cals seems like alot of food. I could always go for to Woppers LOL.. Not willing to do that.... I will make an effort to eat more.

A lot of food for a teenage girl maybe... 3 normal meals would take you easily above 2000

BrotherWolf
01-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Even at 1900 cals a day, eating clean is a lot of food. Going over 200 cals seems like alot of food. I could always go for to Woppers LOL.. Not willing to do that.... I will make an effort to eat more.

Dude.. 2 tbsp of olive oil in your salad are 240 calories.. that's a lot of food right

SmNolasco2012
01-29-2012, 11:53 AM
Just keep hitting the weights and eatting everything in sight

flyer7871
01-29-2012, 01:02 PM
I have been using Leangains for about a month... all my lifts are up, and finally broke the 190lbs barrier. Having a window of 8hrs to eat over 2000 cals is going to be tough. I am going to try more dense cal foods, such as olive oil like Wolf stated above. Now before some of you say i`m crazy for following Leangains. Let me state that at 40yrs old. I feel better than when I was thirty. With that said Starting this Monday I am going to go over 2000 cals a day for a while, and see how it goes. My ideal physique is more like Ten three five`s ideal. Just so everyone knows my goal is to lose the dammed flab around my mid section. I thank everyone for your help, even Outofstep`s opinions. LOL.. I shall keep you guys posted with my progress.

db_ggmm
01-29-2012, 02:24 PM
http://www.google.ca/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.naturalphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/body-fat-percentage.jpg&sa=X&ei=QMEkT86_DNPTiAL4hdTWBw&ved=0CAsQ8wc4OQ&usg=AFQjCNH0dHB7tVTtSdE2gB9QWF0hx3PwcA

Is this photo a sustainable long-term physique?

TenThreeFive
01-29-2012, 05:32 PM
http://www.google.ca/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.naturalphysiques.com/wp-content/uploads/body-fat-percentage.jpg&sa=X&ei=QMEkT86_DNPTiAL4hdTWBw&ved=0CAsQ8wc4OQ&usg=AFQjCNH0dHB7tVTtSdE2gB9QWF0hx3PwcA

Is this photo a sustainable long-term physique?Of course it is, once you reach it, its not difficult to maintain. There are lots here on bb.com who have maintained it for years. Check out Timberwolf here. He's been like this for over 15 years. He maintains it year round.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/10/11/40598/progresspic/1dtLtVQn8G1GG1GhccEhksslc2zpdE003.jpeg

flyer7871
01-29-2012, 05:59 PM
Of course it is, once you reach it, its not difficult to maintain. There are lots here on bb.com who have maintained it for years. Check out Timberwolf here. He's been like this for over 15 years. He maintains it year round.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/10/11/40598/progresspic/1dtLtVQn8G1GG1GhccEhksslc2zpdE003.jpeg

IMO I think its easier to maintain than to get there. Only time will tell for me. As for right now my goal is to get where TEN Three five is at

cmoore
01-30-2012, 05:53 AM
Doesnt everyone want to look like a marvel comic hero*? It's just some pick different- bigger smaller- heroes.

*except for the part about wearing your underwear on the outside of your pants.

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 06:03 AM
IMO I think its easier to maintain than to get there. Only time will tell for me. As for right now my goal is to get where TEN Three five is at

funny you guys should post up TW picture .. yes it's not easy to get there in fact most people will never be able to get there especially those afraid to eat

YtKy6cARCFw

freebirdmac
01-30-2012, 06:30 AM
funny you guys should post up TW picture .. yes it's not easy to get there in fact most people will never be able to get there especially those afraid to eat



Or too obsessive about what they eat :p

I remember that! Krispy Kreme ftw!

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 06:39 AM
Or too obsessive about what they eat :p

I remember that! Krispy Kreme ftw!

a classic :)

db_ggmm
01-30-2012, 08:15 AM
I can't help but notice that while TW looks great in the video, he doesn't look anything like the photo. Posting a video like that in a vacuum, an eating video, seems really problematic to me. I just don't know if I buy the suggestion that it's "easy to maintain" because "here's a video of him eating donuts". That's not evidence of anything to me other than he ate donuts once upon a time.

Additionally, to suggest the two physiques are the same confuses me. If they are, and they clearly look different, the difference between the video and the photo is a pretty amazing testament to the power of photography. If they are different, and they clearly look different, then the suggestion that the photo is "easy to maintain cause look at him for 15 years" is kinda bogus.

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 08:41 AM
I just don't know if I buy the suggestion that it's "easy to maintain" because "here's a video of him eating donuts". That's not evidence of anything to me other than he ate donuts once upon a time.


Where in my post do I suggest that ?? please show me

geer_matt
01-30-2012, 08:45 AM
Dam this thread is still going?

Kraken
01-30-2012, 09:26 AM
funny you guys should post up TW picture .. yes it's not easy to get there in fact most people will never be able to get there especially those afraid to eat

YtKy6cARCFw

Was he getting ready for a show when he did this? Did he only eat two? That's not bad at all. I eat around 1200 calories for my PWO meal, a doughnut or two wouldn't be harmful at all in there.

Kraken
01-30-2012, 09:30 AM
Oh, as for maintaining vs "getting there", from experience, I have to say that there are two major things to remember. One, when I finally decide to get there, I was motivated and disciplined. The changes that I went through kept me motivated. Once I reached it, I maintained easily for a while, but, I have slipped a little trying to maintain for long periods of time. I never lost my entire 6 pack, but, I couldn't hold at 8%, and I am hovering at 10-11% much more comfortably than 8%. I think, for my body at least, that is my treshold with when I need to stay more focused on the objective.

I am just happy I am holding the 6 pack, and when pool weather comes around again, I won't have far to go to look ripped again.

CardinalRB34
01-30-2012, 09:39 AM
a lot of the guys are right. You should cut out your cardio for a while. You should concentrate on adding some quality lean mass to your body. The more muscle you have... the greater your capacity to burn bodyfat would be. With your incredibly restrictive diet and with all your 3 mile runs... I believe your in a current state of preservation - where it's hard for you to lose any fat and your body clings onto anything you feed it. I also believe you'll start experiencing more and more catabolism if you continue on the plan you have now.

Sometimes - you have to rethink your plan. What is the best thing to do for your long term goals. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. Sometimes it means you'll have to put burning fat at the back of your priority list, as you put muscle gains toward the front. Gain some muscle - then your fat will come off easier... especially when you come up with a more sensible plan.

flyer7871
01-30-2012, 09:53 AM
Cardinal Thanks for your thoughts. Being that I have been overweight for most of my life, it is hard for me to get out of the eat less mind set. Starting today I will be tweaking my diet, and adding more cals. Hitting the weights hard, and cutting my runs down. I weigh 187lbs so Im by no means small.
I`m just having trouble getting rid of the flab around my mid section. It seems to going from everywhere except there. Hopefully eating more will trigger something.

mrmrbill
01-30-2012, 09:53 AM
Was he getting ready for a show when he did this? Did he only eat two? That's not bad at all. I eat around 1200 calories for my PWO meal, a doughnut or two wouldn't be harmful at all in there.

It was more of a joke for the carb/fat diet nazis; he pokes fun at them frequently. He's also done one eating a tin of nasty looking cat food.


Once I reached it, I maintained easily for a while, but, I have slipped a little trying to maintain for long periods of time. I never lost my entire 6 pack, but, I couldn't hold at 8%, and I am hovering at 10-11% much more comfortably than 8%. I think, for my body at least, that is my treshold with when I need to stay more focused on the objective.

That. In earlier days, I held 5% for about 6 mos, like it was some kind of magic prize, but was fairly miserable. A doctor asked, "WTF are you making a specific "%" a goal unto itself? Optimize your strength for your desired goals/activities, and let BF adjust itself accordingly." Long-term single-digit maintenance is major lifestyle re-tooling for those who've spent far longer north of, say 15-20+. Whether it's "worth the effort" or "10-ish is just fine" is an internal question best answered after personal experience. That may seem overly obvious, but for those chasing <10 having never been there, it's a revealing Pandora's Box of self-will.

BrotherWolf
01-30-2012, 09:55 AM
Was he getting ready for a show when he did this? Did he only eat two? That's not bad at all. I eat around 1200 calories for my PWO meal, a doughnut or two wouldn't be harmful at all in there.

I don't know, I used to eat 6 .. 3 before and 3 after just to help to get to my 4k cal
as far as I know TW eats like this all the times, if it fits his macro he'll eat it .. some people prefer to eat their macros in steamed broc****, broiled chicken and egg whites
other people like to eat and keep a more interesting diet, one that it's actually fun to keep long term..

TenThreeFive
01-30-2012, 10:50 AM
Timberwolf expends a ton of energy, much more then even a hardcore bodybuilder. The question was can it be maintained, not what his diet consisted of. It still is and always will be calories in vs calories out regardless. It has nothing to do with being afraid to eat. Its figuring out your TDEE and subtracting or adding calories based on your goals. Eating 'more' blindly is retarded and will never get you to your goals. Maintaining 12% most of the year then cutting down to single digits for the few summer months is the easiest way for most to maintain it.

Kraken
01-30-2012, 01:31 PM
It was more of a joke for the carb/fat diet nazis; he pokes fun at them frequently. He's also done one eating a tin of nasty looking cat food.



That. In earlier days, I held 5% for about 6 mos, like it was some kind of magic prize, but was fairly miserable. A doctor asked, "WTF are you making a specific "%" a goal unto itself? Optimize your strength for your desired goals/activities, and let BF adjust itself accordingly." Long-term single-digit maintenance is major lifestyle re-tooling for those who've spent far longer north of, say 15-20+. Whether it's "worth the effort" or "10-ish is just fine" is an internal question best answered after personal experience. That may seem overly obvious, but for those chasing <10 having never been there, it's a revealing Pandora's Box of self-will.

Indeed. At my current BF, I don't think I am missing out on the strength and muscle gains, where as at 8%, I think I was under eating a bit much to really see much. It was such a fine line too, where under eating or over eating a little too much would throw off the balance of things. It feels good to still look and feel good and be able to go the deep end for a day every once in a while. lol

flyer7871
01-30-2012, 10:01 PM
I did it!!!!!! Hit 2200 cals today.... Im stuffed LOL.... Cottage cheese w/ raisins, and Almonds is my new friend. LOL

TenThreeFive
01-30-2012, 10:17 PM
I did it!!!!!! Hit 2200 cals today.... Im stuffed LOL.... Cottage cheese w/ raisins, and Almonds is my new friend. LOL

Do you have a plan on why you are eating 2200kcal a day. Do you understand what your macro breakdown is and why? If you are jamming in calories because people here said 'eat more' you are going to be severely disappointed with your results.

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 01:06 AM
Do you have a plan on why you are eating 2200kcal a day. Do you understand what your macro breakdown is and why? If you are jamming in calories because people here said 'eat more' you are going to be severely disappointed with your results.

Im currently doing Leangains , based on eating around 2200 on my lifting days, and 1800 on non lifting days. This should take me from 186lbs to around 179 in about a month. I have been eating around 1600-1800 for about a month which brought me from 190lbs to 186. Not including cals burned during my workouts , and running. having only an eight hr widow to eat is tough to get my macros in. I went a bit over board today. I`m going to try to keep it at 2000 on lift days, and 1700-1800 on non lift days. cutting down the running from 3days to 2days, for two weeks. Want to gain some more LBM, and lose some of the fat. will try it for a couple of weeks, and see how it goes. Open to suggestions Ten three five. Mind if I ask what your cals/ per day are?

UndesirableNo1
01-31-2012, 08:45 AM
...My goal is below, not really the ideal physique for most here but its what is motivating me now...



Your goal is to be Photoshopped? Srs, you look closer to that guy than you think. He doesn't even look like that (and if he does it was for that one photo session).

ljimd
01-31-2012, 09:00 AM
Unless you find your maintenance cal level - arbitrary numbers are useless. No calculator or person can find that for you with any accuracy. Then you can decide how to tweak up/down. I've ranged between 1800/2200 cals for several years and manipulate my bodyfat with carb intake. It works for me. Others maybe not so much.

TenThreeFive
01-31-2012, 10:51 AM
Im currently doing Leangains , based on eating around 2200 on my lifting days, and 1800 on non lifting days. This should take me from 186lbs to around 179 in about a month. I have been eating around 1600-1800 for about a month which brought me from 190lbs to 186. Not including cals burned during my workouts , and running. having only an eight hr widow to eat is tough to get my macros in. I went a bit over board today. I`m going to try to keep it at 2000 on lift days, and 1700-1800 on non lift days. cutting down the running from 3days to 2days, for two weeks. Want to gain some more LBM, and lose some of the fat. will try it for a couple of weeks, and see how it goes. Open to suggestions Ten three five. Mind if I ask what your cals/ per day are?

My cals/per day will be of no use to you. I spent a few years eating 3500kcal + building muscle. Even when I got fat I had muscle under it. Like I said before your program is a mess and you need to scrap it and start over. After looking more at your pictures and hearing what you want, if it were me, I would up my calories 500 over TDEE and lift heavy doing compounds. I would put on heavy metal music, put on my sweats and pound those weights into oblivion. The extra kcal will fuel you like a muthafcker. Music is my preworkout pump but if you need something take a preworkout supp to get psyched. I would drop the running like a cheap hooker and I would add one session of HIIT per week where I go to the track feeling fresh but leave feeling like I just got the shiat kicked out of me by Mike Tyson on a bad day. If you do this you will look decent this Summer and if you do this for a full year you can cut for a couple of months for next Summer and look even better. If you continue the road you are going down now though you are going to look kinda shiatty this summer (srs). Thats all the info I got for ya. Luck.

Jtbny
01-31-2012, 01:53 PM
OP...

Honestly you really have been given all the advice you need in this thread yet it seems you don't want to accept it or just don't get it.

Basically you need to get over your fear of eating. I can relate trust me,but until you do that you will be spinning your wheels in the mud. If your goal is to be skinny fat, then you are well on your way. I like Tens advice. Maybe go check out his journal and see how dialed in he is.

Brackneyc
01-31-2012, 03:38 PM
I did it!!!!!! Hit 2200 cals today.... Im stuffed LOL.... Cottage cheese w/ raisins, and Almonds is my new friend. LOL

You got stuffed, and almonds and cottage cheese were on the menu. You must have a stomach half the size of most people. (srs).

Kraken
01-31-2012, 04:34 PM
You got stuffed, and almonds and cottage cheese were on the menu. You must have a stomach half the size of most people. (srs).

lol or he must have eaten all 2200 cals worth of cottage cheese and almonds in one sitting.

freebirdmac
01-31-2012, 04:44 PM
When you've trained your body to exist on few calories you have to retrain it to eat more. I went through this. Just sucked it up and forced food in until I hit my calorie goal. Many times I had to eat past the "losing my cookies" feeling. Took about a month and a half to adjust. Now, that calorie level is easy and puts me at a slight deficit.

Kraken
01-31-2012, 04:50 PM
When you've trained your body to exist on few calories you have to retrain it to eat more. I went through this. Just sucked it up and forced food in until I hit my calorie goal. Many times I had to eat past the "losing my cookies" feeling. Took about a month and a half to adjust. Now, that calorie level is easy and puts me at a slight deficit.

Along with picking the right foods too. Figuring out the most calorie dense foods and the least calorie dense ones can really make dieting or bulking much easier.

mrmrbill
01-31-2012, 05:17 PM
Along with picking the right foods too. Figuring out the most calorie dense foods and the least calorie dense ones can really make dieting or bulking much easier.

in4peanutbutterandbaconfat sammiches! :P

Kraken
01-31-2012, 06:02 PM
in4peanutbutterandbaconfat sammiches! :P

My favorite bulking sammich was a PB and honey. I could eat those all day, and at a whopping 400-500 calories each, you can easily get up there. Add a glass of milk, it's a 600+ calorie "snack".

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 06:49 PM
lol or he must have eaten all 2200 cals worth of cottage cheese and almonds in one sitting.
No that was my last meal before bed.. It put me over 2000.

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 07:00 PM
My favorite bulking sammich was a PB and honey. I could eat those all day, and at a whopping 400-500 calories each, you can easily get up there. Add a glass of milk, it's a 600+ calorie "snack".
Thanks for the PB&h idea. just looked at some labels. Hell two of those along with what Im already eating will be a lot of help

Kraken
01-31-2012, 07:00 PM
No that was my last meal before bed.. It put me over 2000.

Oh, we were just bustin yer balls. We remember what it was like. I used to think eating 150g of protein took an act of God to achieve.

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 07:07 PM
Oh, we were just bustin yer balls. We remember what it was like. I used to think eating 150g of protein took an act of God to achieve.

No worries Kraken. I am glad to see so many responses to my thread. Tips, and truths. I appreciate all of them.

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 07:08 PM
by the way, how late is it ok to eat one of those 500 cal PB&H?

Jtbny
01-31-2012, 07:13 PM
by the way, how late is it ok to eat one of those 500 cal PB&H?

Whenever you get hungry...doesn't matter.

BrotherWolf
01-31-2012, 07:33 PM
Thanks for the PB&h idea. just looked at some labels. Hell two of those along with what Im already eating will be a lot of help

A couple of steaks wouldn't hurt you either..

Kraken
01-31-2012, 07:41 PM
by the way, how late is it ok to eat one of those 500 cal PB&H?

Pretty much what jtbny said.

Many years ago, I talked frequenty with a fellow that I had a lot of respect for when it came to his knowledge of all things strength. I used to tell him I was a hard gainer, and had issues putting on weight. Although, to this day, I do think I am way down on the genetics scale of things, he proved to me that I was not, in fact, a hard gainer when it came to weight.

The very basics are these...

-Calorie dense foods (as already discussed)
-Consistency; many times, people who cannot put on weight just aren't putting in the effort every day. I was the same way, one day I would eat a lot, the next day or two I woudn't eat enough and never knew I was doing it.

Lastly, when all things fail, there was a trick that would make even the worst hardgainers gain weight. THat trick was waking up in the middle of the night and having some PB and milk in some form or another, or any calorie dense food that isn't hard to eat quick and go back to sleep. This has two advantages. The first, your metabolism is greatly slowed during sleep, so foods are processed slower and metabolised a little slower. Second, it's, simply put, an extra meal. If hunger is your issue, this can actually be a great way to help fix the problem. You should be relatively hungry when you wake up.

Almost every person/client I use this trick on, ends up with an extra 10lbs in a matter of a couple weeks.

Brackneyc
01-31-2012, 07:48 PM
Pretty much what jtbny said.

Many years ago, I talked frequenty with a fellow that I had a lot of respect for when it came to his knowledge of all things strength. I used to tell him I was a hard gainer, and had issues putting on weight. Although, to this day, I do think I am way down on the genetics scale of things, he proved to me that I was not, in fact, a hard gainer when it came to weight.

The very basics are these...

-Calorie dense foods (as already discussed)
-Consistency; many times, people who cannot put on weight just aren't putting in the effort every day. I was the same way, one day I would eat a lot, the next day or two I woudn't eat enough and never knew I was doing it.

Lastly, when all things fail, there was a trick that would make even the worst hardgainers gain weight. THat trick was waking up in the middle of the night and having some PB and milk in some form or another, or any calorie dense food that isn't hard to eat quick and go back to sleep. This has two advantages. The first, your metabolism is greatly slowed during sleep, so foods are processed slower and metabolised a little slower. Second, it's, simply put, an extra meal. If hunger is your issue, this can actually be a great way to help fix the problem. You should be relatively hungry when you wake up.

Almost every person/client I use this trick on, ends up with an extra 10lbs in a matter of a couple weeks.


It would seem to me that you just prepared a hell of an argument against eating before bed as a means to keeping weight off (using metabolism as part of the argument). I say this because it is the last food you eat before you go to sleep and consequently, it will be a huge contributory factor for eating over your daily cals.

Kraken
01-31-2012, 08:00 PM
it will be a huge contributory factor for eating over your daily cals.

I think you're right. I too believe that the fact that you are eating several hundred calories more in a 24 hour period is the biggest impact, by far.

flyer7871
01-31-2012, 08:04 PM
It would seem to me that you just prepared a hell of an argument against eating before bed as a means to keeping weight off (using metabolism as part of the argument). I say this because it is the last food you eat before you go to sleep and consequently, it will be a huge contributory factor for eating over your daily cals.

I think he was speaking about hard gainers. I by no means am a hard gainer. I just look at food and gain weight. LOL.. Ive gone from about 220 to 186 currently, and just want some of the fat gone from my mid section . I know that I have to be a a deficit cal wise.

freebirdmac
02-01-2012, 06:20 AM
I think he was speaking about hard gainers. I by no means am a hard gainer. I just look at food and gain weight. LOL.. Ive gone from about 220 to 186 currently, and just want some of the fat gone from my mid section . I know that I have to be a a deficit cal wise.

I used to think that too. But it's wrong. Just as "hard gainers" don't eat enough, we simply ate too much. Talking calories of course. Change your diet and you can eat more food before you hit your calorie target. Add lifting and you can eat even more.

As for your current physique, you're getting close to a skinny-fat state. That means you'll keep getting smaller with weight loss but you always look the same. The fat you think you need to lose may not be as much if any once more lean mass is added. Funny how that works :)

MecGen
02-01-2012, 06:45 AM
Lastly, when all things fail, there was a trick that would make even the worst hardgainers gain weight. THat trick was waking up in the middle of the night and having some PB and milk in some form or another, or any calorie dense food that isn't hard to eat quick and go back to sleep. This has two advantages. The first, your metabolism is greatly slowed during sleep, so foods are processed slower and metabolised a little slower. Second, it's, simply put, an extra meal. If hunger is your issue, this can actually be a great way to help fix the problem. You should be relatively hungry when you wake up.

Almost every person/client I use this trick on, ends up with an extra 10lbs in a matter of a couple weeks.

OhOh, now all the calorie in calorie out activists will circle around you and throw stones :)

Kraken
02-01-2012, 06:54 AM
OhOh, now all the calorie in calorie out activists will circle around you and throw stones :)

Even if calorie in vs calorie out is the truth, which I do believe it is for the most part, there is no arguing that the body slows everything down at night...heart rate, digestion, breathing, temperature lowers etc. It's a very anabolic state too, where the body slows down everything to focus on recovering from the day's events.

db_ggmm
02-01-2012, 08:11 AM
there is no arguing that the body slows everything down at night...heart rate, digestion, breathing, temperature lowers etc.

So everything slows down except for recovery which speeds up which surely consumes calories?

chodan9
02-01-2012, 08:36 AM
LOL
sorry
but I see "legains" in the title and think every time "is this some kind of french workout plan?"

flyer7871
02-01-2012, 01:32 PM
LOL
sorry
but I see "legains" in the title and think every time "is this some kind of french workout plan?"

No. LOL...Leangais sorry for the typ o...Its fasting... I have a window from noon to 9pm to get all these cals in. Was having trouble for the first month. Now I`m able to get close to my target cals by nine. Got to thank Kraken for the PB&H sandwich idea. I had one last night, and felt stronger at the gym today. Not that i will be eating these everyday. Maybe every other day.

flyer7871
02-01-2012, 01:34 PM
I used to think that too. But it's wrong. Just as "hard gainers" don't eat enough, we simply ate too much. Talking calories of course. Change your diet and you can eat more food before you hit your calorie target. Add lifting and you can eat even more.

As for your current physique, you're getting close to a skinny-fat state. That means you'll keep getting smaller with weight loss but you always look the same. The fat you think you need to lose may not be as much if any once more lean mass is added. Funny how that works :)

Made some changes this week. Eating more cals. Lets see where it takes me in the next two weeks.

Kraken
02-01-2012, 01:42 PM
Made some changes this week. Eating more cals. Lets see where it takes me in the next two weeks.

Make sure your macros are good too. As Freebird said, you might end up looking chubby if you put on weight really fast. Don't eat only protein, or only fats, or only carbs as a way to get your calories, try and get a variety of things in your diet.

I think I saw your BF at around 20%. I wouldn't suggest getting higher than that, if anything, a cleaned up diet might help you get a little lower AND put on more muscle.

flyer7871
02-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Make sure your macros are good too. As Freebird said, you might end up looking chubby if you put on weight really fast. Don't eat only protein, or only fats, or only carbs as a way to get your calories, try and get a variety of things in your diet.

I think I saw your BF at around 20%. I wouldn't suggest getting higher than that, if anything, a cleaned up diet might help you get a little lower AND put on more muscle.

Shooting for the ol 40-40-20 ratio