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View Full Version : 49ers = young Ravens team



Hardcore_D00d
01-10-2012, 08:57 PM
just realized this. good defense, sh*tty qb. only difference is 10 yrs ago defense actually mattered

brb_ballin
01-10-2012, 08:58 PM
Dilfer>Smith

Hardcore_D00d
01-10-2012, 08:59 PM
Dilfer>Smith
true, but its like comparing horse sh*t to cow sh*t.

Masstastic
01-10-2012, 08:59 PM
just realized this. good defense, sh*tty qb. only difference is 10 yrs ago defense actually mattered

No.

Ravens were a 4-3 team then, not a 3-4 team.

Secondly, there isnt anybody in the 49ers secondary as good as Rod Woodson or Chris McAlister.

MtMostWanted
01-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Disagree with Dilfer being better than Smith. Both are not good, but Dilfer was/is just plumb dumb. Niners could be very good like Ravens D, but I think they'll find a way to move backwards.

Hardcore_D00d
01-10-2012, 09:03 PM
No.

Ravens were a 4-3 team then, not a 3-4 team.

Secondly, there isnt anybody in the 49ers secondary as good as Rod Woodson or Chris McAlister.

true, but its like comparing a jet engine and a lambo

ElMariachi
01-10-2012, 09:11 PM
Dilfer>Smith


true, but its like comparing horse sh*t to cow sh*t.


Okay, now you can put down the crack pipe. Smith's numbers are considerably better and Dilfer only had a QB rating over 80 once in his career. Smith was in the Top 10 of NFL quarterbacks this year, meanwhile other teams were starting guys like Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb, Mark Sanchez......etc.



The big difference between those Ravens and the 49ers is at safety. Had the 49ers drafted Earl Thomas last year, then it'd be a pretty damn close comparison. Carlos Rogers is a very good cornerback and Tarell Brown and Chris Culliver are also solid but they have had lapses in the secondary, if they can improve in that area then yeah, they'll be pretty damn scary. They've got 2 Pro-Bowl level inside linebackers, a great young pass-rusher in Aldon Smith and one of the very best 3-4 ends in all of football, this defense will be around for awhile.

SoccerMuscle5
01-10-2012, 09:14 PM
Smith is definetely a better QB than the old school Ravens defense. Not to mention the Ravens Defense was really based off of Ray lewis LB and Ed Reed(Safety) San Fran really has the power of the LBs and the Dline. Their secondary isn't that great...

ElMariachi
01-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Smith is definetely a better QB than the old school Ravens defense. Not to mention the Ravens Defense was really based off of Ray lewis LB and Ed Reed(Safety) San Fran really has the power of the LBs and the Dline. Their secondary isn't that great...

Goldson is a good playmaker and hard-hitter at safety but he's also prone to boneheaded moments. Whitner is a good tackler but very undersized. Ideally Goldson would move to SS and they would draft someone to play the FS spot.


Offensively the 49ers have quite a bit of talent, they've just had to digest an entire new system with a shortened offseason but there definitely has been continuous improvement though out the season and Alex Smith has looked far improved. With another offseason under his belt, he could be even better, especially if the 49ers add some receivers who besides Crabtree can catch.

roadtrippin
01-10-2012, 09:25 PM
in b4 calikid

ATrain216
01-10-2012, 11:46 PM
Dilfer>Smith
What has Dilfer done, or what has Smith NOT done, to even justify that statement?

That year, Dilfer had 1,500 yards in 11 games with 12 TDs and 11 picks. Alex Smith has 5 picks in 16 games with 3,200 yards. Not propping Smith, just saying that your statement is baseless.


No.

Ravens were a 4-3 team then, not a 3-4 team.

Secondly, there isnt anybody in the 49ers secondary as good as Rod Woodson or Chris McAlister.
Rod Woodson was like 36 years old that year. And the Niners have two Pro Bowlers in the secondary, Goldson and Rogers. I think Carlos Rogers would definitely hold his own against Chris McAlister. But the DB rules were different back then so there's no way to really compare.

Also, 2000 was Ray Lewis' fifth year in the league and first playoff appearance.

This is Patrick Willis' fifth year in the league. And first playoff appearance.

SF goes as far as P-Willis goes.

jimbogr
01-10-2012, 11:53 PM
Smith + the Hargenius > Dilfer

miscingout
01-11-2012, 12:03 AM
Smith is definetely a better QB than the old school Ravens defense. Not to mention the Ravens Defense was really based off of Ray lewis LB and Ed Reed(Safety) San Fran really has the power of the LBs and the Dline. Their secondary isn't that great...

Ed Reed wasnt on that 2000 team (imagine if he was in place of Kim Herring, the weakest link of that D). As good as Patrick Willis is, Ray Lewis was a man possessed in 2000 and was more important as a 4-3 MLB. He was also surrounded by great veterans, guys who had tons of experience...McCrary, Adams, Siragusa, Woodson, Burnett, Boulware, etc. Woodson was still a helluva player, he managed to play a few years competitively after 2000. He was one of the best safeties in the league at 36.

2000 Ravens D>>San Fran D

Ill give the Niners Alex Smith, though. He's better than Dilfer was for sure.

JaxBrah
01-11-2012, 12:15 AM
2000 ravens were far superior.

Ray lewis in his prime is the goat at mlb. Patrick willis is really good but he is no where near the level of prime ray lewis, ray is by himself. 49ers don't have a chris mcallister at corner or a rod woodson at safety. They certainly don't have a peter boulaware but aldon smith is comparable to michael mccrary.

On offense id say smith is better than dilfer. But jamal lewis > frank gore and shannon sharpe > vernon davis. Also the ravens had the best LT of all time in jonathan ogden.

JaxBrah
01-11-2012, 12:18 AM
What has Dilfer done, or what has Smith NOT done, to even justify that statement?

That year, Dilfer had 1,500 yards in 11 games with 12 TDs and 11 picks. Alex Smith has 5 picks in 16 games with 3,200 yards. Not propping Smith, just saying that your statement is baseless.


Rod Woodson was like 36 years old that year. And the Niners have two Pro Bowlers in the secondary, Goldson and Rogers. I think Carlos Rogers would definitely hold his own against Chris McAlister. But the DB rules were different back then so there's no way to really compare.

Also, 2000 was Ray Lewis' fifth year in the league and first playoff appearance.

This is Patrick Willis' fifth year in the league. And first playoff appearance.

SF goes as far as P-Willis goes.

Mcallister was a top 2 corner, total shutdown revis style, carlos rogers is not.


And I forgot to mention siragusa and sam adams on the line. Unpenatrable

ATrain216
01-11-2012, 12:36 AM
Peter Boulware's career high in sacks was 15.5. Aldon Smith got 14 as a rookie. Both were converted DEs.

And nobody has mentioned Justin Smith this entire thread. He just had a Pro Bowl season and is the heart and soul of that pass rush, despite Aldon Smith's stats. I definitely think the front 7's compare favorably. Linebacking corps of Willis/Bowman/Aldon Smith is unreal.

The secondary makes all the difference, though...and there's a reason the Niners were average at best against the pass this year. Plus I think not having P-Willis for the last few games really helped the 9ers statistically.

miscingout
01-11-2012, 01:22 AM
Peter Boulware's career high in sacks was 15.5. Aldon Smith got 14 as a rookie. Both were converted DEs.

And nobody has mentioned Justin Smith this entire thread. He just had a Pro Bowl season and is the heart and soul of that pass rush, despite Aldon Smith's stats. I definitely think the front 7's compare favorably. Linebacking corps of Willis/Bowman/Aldon Smith is unreal.

The secondary makes all the difference, though...and there's a reason the Niners were average at best against the pass this year. Plus I think not having P-Willis for the last few games really helped the 9ers statistically.

Boulware was a 4-3 OLB in 2000. Can't really compare him with Aldon Smith. Aldon Smith is a freak of nature though, and if the Niners have the edge anywhere, its with their pass rush. But Adams and Goose inside, Ray Lewis at MLB, and the secondary all are better than what the Niners have. Ray Lewis was something else - he covered so much ground it was amazing.

Dave P
01-11-2012, 01:50 AM
Dilfer>Smith


No way dude.


Dilfer was way worse that superbowl year than Smith has been this year.







Personally I think the 2002 Buc's is a better comparison than the Ravens.

ElMariachi
01-11-2012, 01:56 AM
Boulware was a 4-3 OLB in 2000. Can't really compare him with Aldon Smith. Aldon Smith is a freak of nature though, and if the Niners have the edge anywhere, its with their pass rush. But Adams and Goose inside, Ray Lewis at MLB, and the secondary all are better than what the Niners have. Ray Lewis was something else - he covered so much ground it was amazing.


LOL, because Patrick Willis is such a slouch. They're basically the same guy, they even put up similar stats at that junction in their career. The difference is that the 49ers other inside linebacker happens to be playing as well, if not better than Willis this year and that is just insane.



2000 NFL Season

Ray Lewis-107 tackles, 2 interceptions, 3 sacks in 16 games.

2011 NFL Season

Patrick Willis-74 tackles, 1 interception, 2 sacks in 13 games

NaVorro Bowman-106 tackles, 2 sacks-15 games.




Also Aldon Smith has more sacks than anyone else had on that Ravens team.

ElMariachi
01-11-2012, 01:59 AM
2000 ravens were far superior.

Ray lewis in his prime is the goat at mlb. Patrick willis is really good but he is no where near the level of prime ray lewis, ray is by himself. 49ers don't have a chris mcallister at corner or a rod woodson at safety. They certainly don't have a peter boulaware but aldon smith is comparable to michael mccrary.

On offense id say smith is better than dilfer. But jamal lewis > frank gore and shannon sharpe > vernon davis. Also the ravens had the best LT of all time in jonathan ogden.



This is nonsense. Patrick Willis is the best inside linebacker in football right now, to say that somehow he's "nowhere close" to where Lewis was is ridiculous when the statistics don't even bear that out. Willis is damn close to where Ray Lewis was, to the point where teams have been gameplanning to avoid putting the ball in his area of the field, the problem they've had is that the other inside linebacker is just as fast as Willis, so they're screwed.

iamgenus
01-11-2012, 05:35 AM
OP is a troll. The guy has been proven to have no clue about football on numerous occasions.

And Ray Lewis always got more credit because of his passion for the game and being the leader of that defense but to say that he blows away Patrick Willis is just retarded. Willis may not be as vocal or as good of a leader but he's every bit as good as Lewis was as a player and is faster that Lewis anyway. So to say that Willis somehow can't get sideline to sideline as fast as Ray is idiotic.

The biggest difference for the defense of the niners is that they can't be as physical due to the rule changes. If they could their DBs would look much better in comparison. If that Ravens D was out there right now they'd still be very good but they sure as sh*t wouldn't have been as dominant.

BanWagon
01-11-2012, 07:36 AM
Sometimes I wished I started paying attention to football so much sooner in life. So many people saying Willis has yet to reach Lewis in his prime is just baffling. I can't imagine any playing at a higher level than Willis right now. His flaw in the past was vocal leadership and coverage ability. Both things he improved considerably this year. He has taken on the duty of pregame speeches and has looked amazing in coverage this year. I don't even think he is near his ceiling yet. It's just scary watching Willis out there. And yet he still doesn't compare to Lewis? Wow. I must have missed something great.

SpiderSense
01-11-2012, 07:41 AM
2000 NFL Season

Ray Lewis-107 tackles, 2 interceptions, 3 sacks in 16 games.

2011 NFL Season

Patrick Willis-74 tackles, 1 interception, 2 sacks in 13 games

LMAO somebody just got OWNED.

Now all he's got to fall back on is some weak ass "impact play" type argument :rolleyes:

Brolosopher
01-11-2012, 07:54 AM
lol Why is Justin Smith barely getting a mention? He got 2 All pro selections this year and should rightfully win defensive player of the year.

ajn
01-11-2012, 08:12 AM
Sometimes I wished I started paying attention to football so much sooner in life. So many people saying Willis has yet to reach Lewis in his prime is just baffling. I can't imagine any playing at a higher level than Willis right now. His flaw in the past was vocal leadership and coverage ability. Both things he improved considerably this year. He has taken on the duty of pregame speeches and has looked amazing in coverage this year. I don't even think he is near his ceiling yet. It's just scary watching Willis out there. And yet he still doesn't compare to Lewis? Wow. I must have missed something great.
Patrick Willis is every bit as talented as Ray Lewis was, anyone who says otherwise doesn't know football. That's coming from a Ravens fan.

But talent isn't the only thing that makes a player great (see: Randy Moss vs Jerry Rice). Lewis has literally carried a franchise on his back for 15 years, racking up a Super Bowl MVP, multiple DPOYs, and more Pro Bowls and accolades than you can bother counting. Willis has a looong way to go if he wants his career to be mentioned next to Ray Lewis. I agree that he will only get better, but he will have to earn his legacy the hard way like Ray did.

iamgenus
01-11-2012, 08:28 AM
Patrick Willis is every bit as talented as Ray Lewis was, anyone who says otherwise doesn't know football. That's coming from a Ravens fan.

But talent isn't the only thing that makes a player great (see: Randy Moss vs Jerry Rice). Lewis has literally carried a franchise on his back for 15 years, racking up a Super Bowl MVP, multiple DPOYs, and more Pro Bowls and accolades than you can bother counting. Willis has a looong way to go if he wants his career to be mentioned next to Ray Lewis. I agree that he will only get better, but he will have to earn his legacy the hard way like Ray did.

Nobody is saying Ray Lewis wasn't a retarded level player and Willis does have a long way to go before he can be mentioned on the same level as Ray career wise...but that's obvious since Ray has been in the league like 10 years longer than Patrick. What people in this thread have been claiming however is that back in 2000 Lewis was somehow so much better than Willis now that it's not even close. Which is just BS. No question he was the leader of that defense and the face of that franchise but his play was not that much better, if any, than what Willis is doing right now.

People forget that playing 3-4 ILB isn't as easy as playing MLB in a 4-3 where you have been guys in front of you and you can just sit back there and make plays. Patrick Willis in a 4-3 would be just that much better. He's not as outspoken as Ray but everything else he's right up there with him.

thegenerel
01-11-2012, 08:50 AM
2000 Ravens is one of, if not the best defense ever.

2011 49ers is one of, but probably not the best defense this year.

ajn
01-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Nobody is saying Ray Lewis wasn't a retarded level player and Willis does have a long way to go before he can be mentioned on the same level as Ray career wise...but that's obvious since Ray has been in the league like 10 years longer than Patrick. What people in this thread have been claiming however is that back in 2000 Lewis was somehow so much better than Willis now that it's not even close. Which is just BS. No question he was the leader of that defense and the face of that franchise but his play was not that much better, if any, than what Willis is doing right now.

People forget that playing 3-4 ILB isn't as easy as playing MLB in a 4-3 where you have been guys in front of you and you can just sit back there and make plays. Patrick Willis in a 4-3 would be just that much better. He's not as outspoken as Ray but everything else he's right up there with him.
The Ravens haven't ran a base 4-3 in years. The year we switched to 3-4 (2003) Lewis won DPOY.. of course, adding to the DPOY and Super Bowl MVP he had already earned under the 4-3.

iamgenus
01-11-2012, 09:23 AM
The Ravens haven't ran a base 4-3 in years. The year we switched to 3-4 (2003) Lewis won DPOY.. of course, adding to the DPOY and Super Bowl MVP he had already earned under the 4-3.

Ray Lewis has gone on record saying he didn't like playing in the 3-4 and it matters not...point still stands the same. In 2000 they were a 4-3 base team and playing ILB in a 3-4 isn't as easy as a 4-3 MLB. It wasn't a knock on Ray Lewis...just stating facts.

ajn
01-11-2012, 10:02 AM
Ray Lewis has gone on record saying he didn't like playing in the 3-4 and it matters not...point still stands the same. In 2000 they were a 4-3 base team and playing ILB in a 3-4 isn't as easy as a 4-3 MLB. It wasn't a knock on Ray Lewis...just stating facts.
I agree, as a former lb/ss its much easier to put up big numbers when you can just shoot open gaps and not have to worry about blockers. But Ray has been playing 3-4/46 since before Willis was in the league so that was a moot point.

ezmac31
01-11-2012, 10:41 AM
2000 Ravens is one of, if not the best defense ever.

2011 49ers is one of, but probably not the best defense this year. /thread..lets let them win something before we compare them to one of the top 3 defenses ever. patrick willis is great and probably the best in the game, but comparing him to ray lewis is premature.

SpiderSense
01-11-2012, 10:51 AM
2011 49ers is one of, but probably not the best defense this year.

Honestly that might be the stupidest thing I've read on BBC in at least 6 months.

iamgenus
01-11-2012, 03:33 PM
/thread..lets let them win something before we compare them to one of the top 3 defenses ever. patrick willis is great and probably the best in the game, but comparing him to ray lewis is premature.

lol once again with this crap. How exactly is it premature? Ray Lewis was a big factor of that defense and yes it was one of the best of all time and better overall unit than this 49ers team but Ray Lewis wasn't the only player on that defense. Willis' play is right there with what Ray Lewis has done that year.

Career wise, yes it's premature since once again Lewis has been in the league much longer but as players straight up Willis is right there with Ray in his prime.

Here is a comparison between Ray's first 5 years and Willis' first 5 years. Ray played his first 5 in the 4-3 at MLB while Willis has been playing ILB in the 3-4 since entering the league.

Ray's first 5

590 tackles
16 sacks
0 tds
0 passes defended (I don't know if they didn't keep those numbers for those years because I find it tough to believe he didn't have at least one pass breakup) so taken with a grain of salt
9 int
2 ff

Patrick's first 5 years

534 tackles
17 sacks
2 tds
40 PD
5 int
12 FF

The numbers are pretty damn close and given the different defensive scheme involved make it even closer. So anyone saying that Ray was on another level is either buying the hype and just can't remember and now hold up Ray as some sort of defensive god or they don't watch many niner games and totally undervalue Willis and his game.

cliffs:
Ravens D in 2000 was unreal and much stronger than the 49ers D of 2011
Ray Lewis did not play much if any better than Patrick Willis this year.

ATrain216
01-11-2012, 03:45 PM
No way dude.


Dilfer was way worse that superbowl year than Smith has been this year.







Personally I think the 2002 Buc's is a better comparison than the Ravens.
Yeah, that's spot on. 02 Bucs and 11 Niners are very similar. Brad Johnson was asked to do the same things as Alex Smith that year, i.e. not phuck up and manage the game. Defense was very opportunistic. Only thing is that Tampa Bay team was much much better against the pass, but the DB rules were different back then.

ATrain216
01-11-2012, 03:58 PM
2000 Ravens is one of, if not the best defense ever.

2011 49ers is one of, but probably not the best defense this year.
To be fair, the 49ers had injuries to deal with on defense towards the end of the year, most notably Willis missing some games. Regardless, the 2000 Ravens wrote their legacy with their playoff run and Super Bowl title, so I think we'll see how their script plays out.

Also, please advise as to why the Niners aren't the best defense this year. Don't even talk about total defense statistics and all that. I take this SF defense at full strength over any defense in the league.

If they run the table with this defense in this day and age where the offenses are getting more explosive and defenses are getting neutered with the new rules, I put these Niners right up there with not only the 2000 Ravens but also the 85 Bears.

Again, "If."