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View Full Version : James Harrison's hit was a legal hit and shouldn't have even been penalized



leafs43
12-09-2011, 12:49 AM
I guess treating the QB as a runner when out of the pocket on a split second play is not only a penalty but a fine-able offense.


Put a red shirt on the QB and give him some velcro flags while you're at it.

BasedPrincess
12-09-2011, 12:51 AM
I know right....

iamgenus
12-09-2011, 06:23 AM
Normally I'd agree but this wasn't one of those momentum takes you plays. He had time to pull up and didnt and still hit him helmet to helmet. No question he will and should be fined for that one.

squirrell751
12-09-2011, 06:25 AM
http://troll.me/images/ronald-mcdonald-call/hello-phaggot-police-the-op-is-loose-again.jpg

AriGhold
12-09-2011, 06:26 AM
should be suspended for 2 games for his 100th offense. he loses all rights to having the benefit of the doubt when he has displayed time and time again that he has every intention to play by his own rules with complete disregard to the consequences. fines and penalties aren't working. suspend him.

Ivan7x
12-09-2011, 07:20 AM
OPisaphaggot

pls go

MA5Bergey
12-09-2011, 07:25 AM
If Harrison didn't go helmet to helmet it would have been a legal play.

IShootCMen
12-09-2011, 07:31 AM
If Harrison didn't go helmet to helmet it would have been a legal play.


this

/thread

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 07:38 AM
Harrison went helmet to helmet on a player who was outside of the pocket, tucked the ball and ran

if he gets fined, then Michael Vick should raise a holy stink because he was told the reason he was taking so many hits is because 'he was a runner outside the pocket'

If McCoy doesn't tuck the ball and run, then I can see the problem. He tucked the ball and ran.

IShootCMen
12-09-2011, 07:42 AM
Harrison went helmet to helmet on a player who was outside of the pocket, tucked the ball and ran

if he gets fined, then Michael Vick should raise a holy stink because he was told the reason he was taking so many hits is because 'he was a runner outside the pocket'

If McCoy doesn't tuck the ball and run, then I can see the problem. He tucked the ball and ran.

illegal last i checked

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 07:47 AM
illegal last i checked

not illegal against a runner. see: Chris Gocong on goal line stand. See: 3/4 of the plays involving a runner. See: Michael Vick and his complaint earlier this season

DoubtErased
12-09-2011, 07:55 AM
not illegal against a runner. see: Chris Gocong on goal line stand. See: 3/4 of the plays involving a runner. See: Michael Vick and his complaint earlier this season

This

If Harrison gets fined, its a hit I can live with. Love to see defense put hits on players like that

simplistickhaos
12-09-2011, 07:57 AM
Really???? I watched to play over and over. Harrison put his head down and lead with his helmet. That was completly illegal. I will agree that Mccoy was outside the pocket about to run but you need to lead with your should into the body, not with your helmet into the head.

DoubtErased
12-09-2011, 08:06 AM
Really???? I watched to play over and over. Harrison put his head down and lead with his helmet. That was completly illegal. I will agree that Mccoy was outside the pocket about to run but you need to lead with your should into the body, not with your helmet into the head.

He is considered a runner and no longer defensive-less once he is outside the pocket and tucks the ball in. Good luck tackling QBs like Big Ben or Tebow if you cant tackle them up high if they are running the ball

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 08:06 AM
Really???? I watched to play over and over. Harrison put his head down and lead with his helmet. That was completly illegal. I will agree that Mccoy was outside the pocket about to run but you need to lead with your should into the body, not with your helmet into the head.

McCoy was a runner. He tucked the ball and ran, and he was outside the pocket. Helmet-to-helmet doesn't exist on runners.

Iczer
12-09-2011, 08:21 AM
Welcome to the NFL, where QB's are pampered. Although I think if he hit a WR or RB like that it would be illegal. There's a difference between making a tackle and having helmet to helmet contact than trying to hurt someone and leading with the crown of your helmet. Take a look at Harrison's history with dirty hits.

anotheruser
12-09-2011, 08:57 AM
Good luck tackling QBs like Big Ben or Tebow if you cant tackle them up high if they are running the ball

What the hell did your football coach teach you?

camaleom
12-09-2011, 09:00 AM
I guess treating the QB as a runner when out of the pocket on a split second play is not only a penalty but a fine-able offense.


Put a red shirt on the QB and give him some velcro flags while you're at it.

sadly I have to agree...

QB tucked in the ball he was a runner...

futbolista89
12-09-2011, 09:02 AM
What the hell did your football coach teach you?

lol this. brb tackling a bigger guy up top.

ToPHeR35
12-09-2011, 09:07 AM
I guess treating the QB as a runner when out of the pocket on a split second play is not only a penalty but a fine-able offense.


Put a red shirt on the QB and give him some velcro flags while you're at it.


Except It's illegal to lead with the helmet during a tackle.....

PitBillSoxFan
12-09-2011, 09:09 AM
What the hell did your football coach teach you?

lol this

Anyone who completed middle school FB knows this.....

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 09:28 AM
illegal last i checked

are you fukkin stupid?

A person running the ball isn't a defenseless runner,
brb should have called that helmet to helmet on medenhall on first in goal, NO HES A RUNNER YOU CAN HELMET TO HELMET A RUNNER ITS NOT A FLAG.

the amount of stupid in this thread, read the rules.

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 09:29 AM
Although I think if he hit a WR or RB like that it would be illegal.

honest question.

Did you see the hit Gocong put on Mendenhall at the goal line during Cleveland's (Very well done) goal line stand?

runners aren't considered "defenseless players"

Liff_Wates
12-09-2011, 09:33 AM
runners aren't considered "defenseless players"

Brb Adrian Peterson lowers his head and a cornerback has to try to tackle him without making helmet to helmet contact

number26
12-09-2011, 09:35 AM
"using any part of a players helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protect those players who are in virtually defenseless postures."

NFL Rule Book - Rule 12 Section 2 Article 8 (g)

/thread

squirrell751
12-09-2011, 09:37 AM
Brb Adrian Peterson lowers his head and a cornerback has to try to tackle him without making helmet to helmet contact

Because AP was

1. Lower than the defender
2. Leading with his shoulder

Don't hate on AP cuz he's a beast

T4lImhQeyrI

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 09:40 AM
Goal line stand (http://m.nbcsports.com/s/3030/proFootballTalkDetails?itemUriVal=6f27ef3e689dad1a 933da986385bda7c%2F1561261211704651315151361491010&view=all&itemTitle=Browns turn back Steelers at the goal line)

"Linebacker Chris Gocong set the tone with a wicked helmet-to-helmet hit on running back Rashard Mendenhall, a maneuver that’s legal when applied to ball carriers. "

McCoy tucked the ball and ran out of the pocket, trying to advance the ball.

That being said, I damn sure wish he wouldn't get even close. Dude's a headhunter and a nasty motherfukcer and he has to know that if there is even the slightest gray area, he needs to avoid it due to the scrutiny being placed on him.

As a quick reminder, last season, Harrison was NOT fined for his hit on Josh Cribbs that was directly helmet to helmet. Why? Becuase he, like McCoy, was a ballcarrier attempting to advance the ball.

batman15
12-09-2011, 09:41 AM
If Harrison didn't go helmet to helmet it would have been a legal play.

/thread.

Iczer
12-09-2011, 09:41 AM
honest question.

Did you see the hit Gocong put on Mendenhall at the goal line during Cleveland's (Very well done) goal line stand?

runners aren't considered "defenseless players"

Yeah. there's a difference between accidental contact and lining up hits and deliberately trying to hurt someone. Harrison could have blew McCoy up without even thinking since he was half his size. There was no need to lead with his helmet like that.

batman15
12-09-2011, 09:41 AM
Did McCoy have the ball when he got hit?

Onita
12-09-2011, 09:42 AM
Did McCoy not pass the ball, since he was behind the line?

Liff_Wates
12-09-2011, 09:42 AM
Because AP was

1. Lower than the defender
2. Leading with his shoulder

Don't hate on AP cuz he's a beast

T4lImhQeyrI

I'm not hating on AP I'm saying it's ridiculous to expect defenders to tackle him without making helmet to helmet contact, and that video shows why.

arya24
12-09-2011, 09:44 AM
any vids of the hit

Iczer
12-09-2011, 09:44 AM
Goal line stand (http://m.nbcsports.com/s/3030/proFootballTalkDetails?itemUriVal=6f27ef3e689dad1a 933da986385bda7c%2F1561261211704651315151361491010&view=all&itemTitle=Browns turn back Steelers at the goal line)

"Linebacker Chris Gocong set the tone with a wicked helmet-to-helmet hit on running back Rashard Mendenhall, a maneuver that’s legal when applied to ball carriers. "

McCoy tucked the ball and ran out of the pocket, trying to advance the ball.

That being said, I damn sure wish he wouldn't get even close. Dude's a headhunter and a nasty motherfukcer and he has to know that if there is even the slightest gray area, he needs to avoid it due to the scrutiny being placed on him.

As a quick reminder, last season, Harrison was NOT fined for his hit on Josh Cribbs that was directly helmet to helmet. Why? Becuase he, like McCoy, was a ballcarrier attempting to advance the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't last season when they started to crack down on these plays due to increased frequency of these hits?

Onita
12-09-2011, 09:44 AM
I'm just going to leave this here

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DIRTY-HIT-HARRISON.gif

How anyone can actually argue for that hit is beyond me. No ball in his hand, his throwing arm is already at his waist.

batman15
12-09-2011, 09:45 AM
Brb Adrian Peterson...a cornerback has to try to tackle him...

I lol'd @ this post.

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 09:48 AM
"using any part of a players helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/hairline parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protect those players who are in virtually defenseless postures."

NFL Rule Book - Rule 12 Section 2 Article 8 (g)

/thread

NFL Rulebook - Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8
Note: This does not apply to contact against a runner

he was a runner. He tucked the ball. He was outside the pocket.

lsiberian
12-09-2011, 09:50 AM
Did McCoy have the ball when he got hit?

Yes did you not see the footage of the ball in his hands. (not srs) A guy costs his team 15 yards and nearly cost them the game.

lsiberian
12-09-2011, 09:51 AM
How anyone can actually argue for that hit is beyond me. No ball in his hand, his throwing arm is already at his waist.

Maybe they've taken too many hits to the head themselves.

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 09:52 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't last season when they started to crack down on these plays due to increased frequency of these hits?

that was the first week they started to crack down on it. I think it was Dunta Robinson's hit on Maclin (or DJax, I can't remember) and I think Meriweather's hit on someone that happened the same week.

Harrison was specifically fined for his hit on Massoquoi that week, but was not fined for his hit on Cribbs and the explanation was that "Cribbs was a runner"

Harrison nails Cribbs, not fined (http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/football/browns/josh-cribbs-responds-to-harrisons-hit)

"The NFL ruled that Harrison’s hit on Cribbs was legal because Cribbs was a ball carrier."

xITHYPHALLIC
12-09-2011, 09:53 AM
I just watched the vid. Yes, McCoy did tuck the ball. However, he does not cross the line of scrimmage and passes the ball. McCoy had gotten rid of the ball and his arms were just coming down from the pass and were near his waist. Based on that, he was technically defenseless AND not trying to advance the ball at that point. By the rule, the refs called it right.

Although I do agree that most quarterbacks are pussies. Helmet to helmet stuff happens all the time on the line, hence the nicks and scratches on the helmets. Heck, I used to headbutt when I played in high school. I also think that Harrison is experienced enough to know that he was going to get called for that hit.

Onita
12-09-2011, 09:54 AM
NFL Rulebook - Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8
Note: This does not apply to contact against a runner,unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless
player, as defined in Rule 12, Section 2, Article 9.

he was a runner. He tucked the ball. He was outside the pocket.

Fixed it for you, since you conveniently edited the rest of the rule.

Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 09:55 AM
gsXablnov6Y

inb4videotooHD

Onita
12-09-2011, 09:59 AM
gsXablnov6Y

inb4videotooHD

Cool story. He was a runner. Here's another rule for ya:

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK
(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders
impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of
the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness
rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in
a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet
or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by
encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or
forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not
prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a
conventional tackle on a passer.

BTW, he's not a runner there - he is SPECIFICALLY covered by this rule:

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8)When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without
attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the
one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,
but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket
(numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player
positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be
covered by all of the special protections for passers.

kethnaab
12-09-2011, 10:00 AM
Fixed it for you, since you conveniently edited the rest of the rule.

Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;

and then go to Article 13, which defines a player in the act or just after throwing a pass (Article 13, 1) and then to section 8.

This exact situation has been dealt with earlier in the season with Vick. The precedent has been set on multiple occasions.

Ultimately, it's going to get down to whether or not the NFL decides to follow suit with how they dealt with Michael Vick (QB tucks the ball and runs outside of pocket, he is a runner) or are they going to go backwards on that and use a double standard, which I'm quite confident they will do.

Disrespected
12-09-2011, 10:01 AM
and this is what happens when players are afraid to touch QBs:

hL3tfIGVsFM

the whole concept of a defenseless player is retarded; dont stand still in the pocket or run over the middle if you dont want to get hit

ezmac31
12-09-2011, 10:03 AM
pretty gay that unless the QB gets the throw away untouched, you pretty much have to hold your breath and look for flags on every play now. NFL has gotten really weak, at least in college football they can still hit the QB.

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:06 AM
and then go to Article 13, which defines a player in the act or just after throwing a pass (Article 13, 1) and then to section 8.

This exact situation has been dealt with earlier in the season with Vick. The precedent has been set on multiple occasions.

Ultimately, it's going to get down to whether or not the NFL decides to follow suit with how they dealt with Michael Vick (QB tucks the ball and runs outside of pocket, he is a runner) or are they going to go backwards on that and use a double standard, which I'm quite confident they will do.

The one step rule doesn't apply. As I said, Section 8 SPECIFICALLY shows that what he did was illegal.

jross2021
12-09-2011, 10:11 AM
"Linebacker Chris Gocong set the tone with a wicked helmet-to-helmet hit on running back Rashard Mendenhall, a maneuver that’s legal when applied to ball carriers. "
.

this should have ended the thread, seriously.

ezmac31
12-09-2011, 10:13 AM
is half outrage because of who the guy who laid the hit was? would people be as mad if it was polamalu who who truck mccoy?

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 10:14 AM
The one step rule doesn't apply. As I said, Section 8 SPECIFICALLY shows that what he did was illegal.

**Cleveland Sports**

nuff said......

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:15 AM
**Cleveland Sports**

nuff said......

STEELERS!

nuff said.....

Care to show where I'm wrong instead of where I'm from?

Corey_Ellis
12-09-2011, 10:20 AM
http://forum.grasscity.com/photopost/data/500/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 10:20 AM
is half outrage because of who the guy who laid the hit was? would people be as mad if it was polamalu who who truck mccoy?
This^


STEELERS!

nuff said.....

Care to show where I'm wrong instead of where I'm from?

Care to not be mad you lost? and your sh!t QB got layed the fukk out?

also havent seen **** about a fine yet

jross2021
12-09-2011, 10:23 AM
PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8)When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without
attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the
one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,

he clearly was attempting to advance the ball as a runner, and pulled up to pass because Harrison was there... therefore, your argument was invalid.

Iczer
12-09-2011, 10:31 AM
he clearly was attempting to advance the ball as a runner, and pulled up to pass because Harrison was there... therefore, your argument was invalid.

Try watching the video again. There was no possible way McCoy was trying to advance as a runner. There were defenders all over him.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d824dfff1/McCoy-takes-helmet-to-helmet-hit?module=HP11_cp

Disrespected
12-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Try watching the video again. There was no possible way McCoy was trying to advance as a runner. There were defenders all over him.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d824dfff1/McCoy-takes-helmet-to-helmet-hit?module=HP11_cp

are we watching the same video? he tucks the ball and runs exactly 5 yards before dumping the ball off at the last second because he sees harrison coming

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:34 AM
This^



Care to not be mad you lost? and your sh!t QB got layed the fukk out?

also havent seen **** about a fine yet

Give it time. And no, not mad about the loss. Its not as if it was unexpected.

I am mad our coach put him back in when he can't even remember the play.

EDIT: And give the fine time. It'll come.

Yank11
12-09-2011, 10:34 AM
edit: change my mind not so sure after reading thread lol

oh and also inb4 all helmet to helmet contact is banned next year because of this disparity


here's a video in real time, not slowed down like that gif:

IfFW-Yezv0k

Iczer
12-09-2011, 10:35 AM
are we watching the same video? he tucks the ball and runs exactly 5 yards before dumping the ball off at the last second because he sees harrison coming

Ya the same video where he gets drilled 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage...5 yards behind the 1st down....

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 10:35 AM
ITT people have no idea what "runner" means.

A QB who has not crossed the line of scrimmage is NEVER a "runner," no matter how he holds the ball. When he still has the right to throw the ball, he is designated as a passer.

The hit was illegal.

/thread.

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:38 AM
i don't think it was illegal. Helmet to Helmet is only applied to defenseless receivers and QBs in the pocket. McCoy was out of the pocket and his pass was essentially a lateral, I don't know how you can't consider him a "runner", meaning you can hit him anywhere you want by the current rules


oh and also inb4 all helmet to helmet contact is banned next year because of this disparity


here's a video in real time, not slowed down like that gif:

IfFW-Yezv0k

If you had read the thread, you'd realize you are wrong.

GrecoRoman
12-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Harrison went helmet to helmet on a player who was outside of the pocket, tucked the ball and ran

if he gets fined, then Michael Vick should raise a holy stink because he was told the reason he was taking so many hits is because 'he was a runner outside the pocket'

If McCoy doesn't tuck the ball and run, then I can see the problem. He tucked the ball and ran.

agreed, if that was a hb toss throw there would be no flag. I draw the line when you tuck the ball and pose yourself as a threat to run.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 10:40 AM
Helmet to helmet on a qb only exists when the qb is in the pocket.

Once the qb leaves the pocket he is considered a runner.

Yank11
12-09-2011, 10:43 AM
If you had read the thread, you'd realize you are wrong.

I actually ninja edited my post before you quoted me..

The problem with the rule is, hypothetically he could have faked that pass and Harrison would have had just made a good hit. Mccoy had tucked the ball and was running, he could have just pump faked just as easily as he threw that. Would that had been a penalty?

Also what if it had been a backwards pass?



What if the pass had been a lateral, technically he didn't throw a pass?

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 10:47 AM
Give it time. And no, not mad about the loss. Its not as if it was unexpected.

I am mad our coach put him back in when he can't even remember the play.

EDIT: And give the fine time. It'll come.

Big Ben still played ? Why cant Colt McCoy, kinda showed his toughness lol

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 10:48 AM
Helmet to helmet on a qb only exists when the qb is in the pocket.

Once the qb leaves the pocket he is considered a runner.

100% wrong, and this play is proof of why. The NFL doesn't want defenseless passers getting hit in the head. Just because Colt tucked and ran didn't mean he waived his right to pass the ball. By your logic, every time Vick tucks the ball immediately bootlegs left after the snap, he is no longer a passer and is open to helmet-to-helmet shots, even after he re-cocks the ball and looks down field. Colt tucked and ran, but - while still behind the line of scrimmage - re-cocked and threw the ball. He was well within his rights to do that and all roughing the passer rules applied. Should they only apply when a QB telegraphs his passes to the defense? Of course not.

Had Colt crossed the line of scrimmage, only then would he have been a designated runner.

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:49 AM
Big Ben still played ? Why cant Colt McCoy, kinda showed his toughness lol

There's a difference between a sprain/break/dislocation or any other injury, and a concussion. Not trying to take anything away from Ben. That was ballsy and I thought no way he'd be back. But when you take a head shot and can't remember the play, there's no way he should be back in. Especially with all of the new concussion rules and research. It was stupidity on the part of Shurmur and/or the trainers.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 10:50 AM
100% wrong, and this play is proof of why. The NFL doesn't want defenseless passers getting hit in the head. Just because Colt tucked and ran didn't mean he waived his right to pass the ball... because he did.

Had Colt crossed the line of scrimmage, only then would he have been a designated runner.


You're not a defenseless player when you are scrambling out of the pocket.



Stop mixing up rules. You sound ridiculous.

UAGreg
12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
It was an illegal hit, and if you expect Harrison to ever get the benefit of the doubt when he's proven he's the biggest POS in the game, you must be crazy.

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 10:54 AM
You're not a defenseless player when you are scrambling out of the pocket.

Stop mixing up rules. You should ridiculous.

Please cut and paste the section in the NFL rulebook that says QB protection rules don't apply when the QB leaves the pocket.

Seriously - I'll wait.

He threw a legal pass (and became defenseless following the pass) and got hit in the mouth. End. Of. Story.

Don't derp around with another opinion - show me the rule that proves you right, or GTFO... because the QB protection rule proves me right 100%.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 10:55 AM
It was an illegal hit, and if you expect Harrison to ever get the benefit of the doubt when he's proven he's the biggest POS in the game, you must be crazy.

How was it illegal?

Helmet to helmet doesn't apply here.

Roughing the passer, the call on the field, doesn't apply here.



Harrison may be a piece of sh!t but that hit was 100% legal in the rulebook.

Onita
12-09-2011, 10:57 AM
How was it illegal?

Helmet to helmet doesn't apply here.

Roughing the passer, the call on the field, doesn't apply here.



Harrison may be a piece of sh!t but that hit was 100% legal in the rulebook.

You're still wrong.

UAGreg
12-09-2011, 10:58 AM
How was it illegal?

Helmet to helmet doesn't apply here.

Roughing the passer, the call on the field, doesn't apply here.



Harrison may be a piece of sh!t but that hit was 100% legal in the rulebook.

If you watch the clip, he's clearly still behind the line of scrimmage and was incapable of protecting himself after he threw that pass.

Shouldn't that make him defenseless?

Plus, Harrison had plenty of time to hold up and chose not to (does that really surprise anyone?)

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 11:01 AM
If you watch the clip, he's clearly still behind the line of scrimmage and was incapable of protecting himself after he threw that pass.

Shouldn't that make him defenseless?

Plus, Harrison had plenty of time to hold up and chose not to (does that really surprise anyone?)

The confusion is that he thinks that roughing the passer rules don't apply outside the pocket, which is 100% wrong.

The entire point of the rule is that when a QB passes the ball, he is not looking at his immediate surroundings, but rather his target down field. The rule is made so he isn't blindsided by a player towards whom he isn't looking. Being in the pocket has no baring on that situation and there is nothing in the NFL rulebook that nullifies these rules when the QB leaves the pocket.

Calhexas
12-09-2011, 11:02 AM
How was it illegal?

Helmet to helmet doesn't apply here.

I think it does. He drops his helmet and applies it to Colt's facemask.


Roughing the passer, the call on the field, doesn't apply here.

This looks iffy. He obviously had let go of the ball but momentum and position of the field (not in pocket) makes it hard to call.

Still looks like he shouldn't have done it. Could've tried to ease up or at least not drop his crown like that.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 11:07 AM
The confusion is that he thinks that roughing the passer rules don't apply outside the pocket, which is 100% wrong.

The entire point of the rule is that when a QB passes the ball, he is not looking at his immediate surroundings, but rather his target down field. The rule is made so he isn't blindsided by a player towards whom he isn't looking. Being in the pocket has no baring on that situation and there is nothing in the NFL rulebook that nullifies these rules when the QB leaves the pocket.


The confusion is McCoy tucked the ball and started to advance the ball and threw the pass at the last second.

The split second McCoy started going forward in a running fashion he loses all passer protections.

Onita
12-09-2011, 11:08 AM
The confusion is McCoy tucked the ball and started to advance the ball and threw the pass at the last second.

The split second McCoy started going forward in a running fashion he loses all passer protections.

And.... you're still wrong ;)

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 11:09 AM
It was an illegal hit, and if you expect Harrison to ever get the benefit of the doubt when he's proven he's the biggest POS in the game, you must be crazy.

You mean Suh is the biggest POS in the game?
fixed? yes?

leafs43
12-09-2011, 11:10 AM
And.... you're still wrong

Attempted advancement of the ball makes you a runner.


It's actually clearly defined in the NFL rule book.


If McCoy was out of the pocket, re-established a passer position and was backpedalling and took a blow to the head I'd have no problem with the call.

TheStigIsBig
12-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Pointless and useless argument. The homers will ZOMG it was legal, Harrison is a boss. And the non-homers will say ZOMMMMMMMG it was illegal, helmet to helmet!!!!!!




Now since that is settled, it was an illegal hit. If people would learn to tackle like Ray Lewis on his big hits, fines wouldn't be assessed all over teh damn place. /thread

Onita
12-09-2011, 11:19 AM
Attempted advancement of the ball makes you a runner.


It's actually clearly defined in the NFL rule book.


If McCoy was out of the pocket, re-established a passer position and was backpedalling and took a blow to the head I'd have no problem with the call.

You are correct in that. Which is why you are wrong.

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Pointless and useless argument. The homers will ZOMG it was legal, Harrison is a boss. And the non-homers will say ZOMMMMMMMG it was illegal, helmet to helmet!!!!!!




Now since that is settled, it was an illegal hit. If people would learn to tackle like Ray Lewis on his big hits, fines wouldn't be assessed all over teh damn place. /thread

lol'd @ you.

Ray Lewis huh? Fined for this. pls go.
inb4 he doesnt always get fined blah blah blah

HmyhcozGRr4

TheStigIsBig
12-09-2011, 11:26 AM
lol'd @ you.

Ray Lewis huh? Fined for this. pls go.
inb4 he doesnt always get fined blah blah blah

HmyhcozGRr4

Givruv0qjbc

PLS GO

and the homer thing was a joke because I ****ing hate the steelers phaggot

Mitch1313
12-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Givruv0qjbc

PLS GO

and the homer thing was a joke because I ****ing hate the steelers phaggot

Jets-Yankees-Rangers-Knicks-FSU seminoles

little upset from last year still I see?

TheStigIsBig
12-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Jets-Yankees-Rangers-Knicks-FSU seminoles

little upset from last year still I see?

You have no idea how upset....I stopped eating ketchup on Jan. 24th last year.

Keenl3ody
12-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Pointless and useless argument. The homers will ZOMG it was legal, Harrison is a boss. And the non-homers will say ZOMMMMMMMG it was illegal, helmet to helmet!!!!!!




Now since that is settled, it was an illegal hit. If people would learn to tackle like Ray Lewis on his big hits, fines wouldn't be assessed all over teh damn place. /thread

doesn't Ray Lewis tackle with a knife?? jk

Keenl3ody
12-09-2011, 11:50 AM
all the protecting the QB comes because the steelers have too many Super Bowls and that is "steelers football" to play rough. gotta cut off the black and yellow (not srs)

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 11:59 AM
The confusion is McCoy tucked the ball and started to advance the ball and threw the pass at the last second.

The split second McCoy started going forward in a running fashion he loses all passer protections.

For the third time, you're 100% wrong. As long as a QB is behind the line of scrimmage, he reserves the right to pass the ball, and whenever a QB passes the ball legally, all roughing the passer rules apply. The act of attempting a pass made him a defenseless player the same as if he threw from the pocket, which is why the rule ALWAYS applies to a passer.

If he never untucked the ball and was hit while attempting to run, there would probably not have been a flag... however, he had already thrown a pass! There's no grey area here whatsoever.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 12:27 PM
For the third time, you're 100% wrong. As long as a QB is behind the line of scrimmage, he reserves the right to pass the ball, and whenever a QB passes the ball legally, all roughing the passer rules apply. The act of attempting a pass made him a defenseless player the same as if he threw from the pocket, which is why the rule ALWAYS applies to a passer.

If he never untucked the ball and was hit while attempting to run, there would probably not have been a flag... however, he had already thrown a pass! There's no grey area here whatsoever.

lmao, no.

So completely wrong.


The official rule:

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without
attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the
one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,
but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket
(numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player
positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be
covered by all of the special protections for passers



McCoy was attempting to advance the ball. The play happens at practically the line of scrimmage.

Onita
12-09-2011, 12:34 PM
lmao, no.

So completely wrong.


The official rule:

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without
attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the
one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,
but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket
(numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player
positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be
covered by all of the special protections for passers



McCoy was attempting to advance the ball. The play happens at practically the line of scrimmage.

It happened behind the line of scrimmage. He passed the ball. He is still specifically protected by 3.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 12:36 PM
It happened behind the line of scrimmage. He passed the ball. He is still specifically protected by 3.

He became a runner the second he made a move to run across the line of scrimmage.


Whether he passed the ball is irrelevant.

Onita
12-09-2011, 12:42 PM
He became a runner the second he made a move to run across the line of scrimmage.


Whether he passed the ball is irrelevant.

It is? Because last I checked, it indicates "When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run", which is exactly what he did. Are you saying he did not throw the ball while on the run? lmao

leafs43
12-09-2011, 12:44 PM
It is? Because last I checked, it indicates "When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, which is exactly what he did. Are you saying he did not throw the ball while on the run? lmao

Bolded the part you missed.


Colt pulled the ball down, was going to run for yardage and at the last second flipped the ball to his left that could almost be considered a lateral rather than a pass a foot from the line of scrimmage.

He played chicken with Harrison and got smashed.

NJLife
12-09-2011, 12:47 PM
If Harrison didn't go helmet to helmet it would have been a legal play.


brb helmets r so huge going for the chest/mid section they just hit. i mean if you go in for a shoulder tackle ur helmet is just gonna hit.

BRB ur going for the players chest/mid section and the WR/qb BRACES FOR HIT BY DUCKING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HELMENTS BRB PENALTY FOR HELMET TO HELMET. YA THEY DONT take THAT INTO ACCOUNT DO THEY?

everyone here can go phuck themselves, you obviously never played the sport of football. do you even realize that without leading the helmet is most likely going to hit the other opponents face mask/helmet due to many reasons? height/bracing/randomness.

the only way i see it. is you're going to have to go back to leather helmets that arent so huge or not helmet at all. and lower shoulder pads.

Onita
12-09-2011, 12:55 PM
It is? Because last I checked, it indicates "When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run", which is exactly what he did. Are you saying he did not throw the ball while on the run? lmao


Bolded the part you missed.


Colt pulled the ball down, was going to run for yardage and at the last second flipped the ball to his left that could almost be considered a lateral rather than a pass a foot from the line of scrimmage.

He played chicken with Harrison and got smashed.

Bolded the part you missed. It could almost be considered a lateral, but its not. Its considered a forward pass.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Bolded the part you missed. It could almost be considered a lateral, but its not. Its considered a forward pass.

Do you even understand what you are highlighting?

The part:

(without attempting to advance the ball as a runner)

negates anything else.


Colt tried advancing the ball, was not in a throwing position and got wrecked. Harrison did nothing wrong.

Onita
12-09-2011, 01:03 PM
Do you even understand what you are highlighting?

The part:

(without attempting to advance the ball as a runner)

negates anything else.


Colt tried advancing the ball, was not in a throwing position and got wrecked. Harrison did nothing wrong.

You can't seriously be this retarded. Do you know what the word OR means? Or are you arguing that he did not throw the ball?

U.S.M.C. TANKER
12-09-2011, 01:49 PM
lol blows my mind how stealer nut huggers can blindly say that was a legal hit? WTF? is you serious? Damn, it's not a big deal, ****s like this happens often in the NFL. Take it like a man and accept the fact that harrison is a dirty SOB.

leafs43
12-09-2011, 01:53 PM
lol blows my mind how stealer nut huggers can blindly say that was a legal hit? WTF? is you serious? Damn, it's not a big deal, ****s like this happens often in the NFL. Take it like a man and accept the fact that harrison is a dirty SOB.

I hate the steelers.

But if it was Vick or a Tebow carrying the ball or even a running back on a half back pass play, Harrison wouldn't have gotten penalized.


There is zero consistency in the rules when it comes to quarterbacks.

U.S.M.C. TANKER
12-09-2011, 01:57 PM
I hate the steelers.

But if it was Vick or a Tebow carrying the ball or even a running back on a half back pass play, Harrison wouldn't have gotten penalized.


There is zero consistency in the rules when it comes to quarterbacks.

If it was helmet to helmet like what harrison did against mccoy, yes there would have been a penalty. I for once am glad they are taking the helmet to helmet thing seriously, having tofu for a brain can't be a good thing.

CCAurora
12-09-2011, 02:45 PM
He became a runner the second he made a move to run across the line of scrimmage.


Whether he passed the ball is irrelevant.

HE DIDN'T CROSS THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE AND HE RE-ESTABLISHED HIMSELF AS A PASSER PRIOR TO THE HIT.

You keep quoiting the rule that proves you wrong as though it proves you right. Are we being trolled?