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KreysonH
12-07-2011, 02:37 PM
Cam Newton- ranked 8th on nfl.com for Qb's
Has 13 passing Td's and 3,297 passing yds
Has 13 rushing Td's(leads the league and broke a rushing record for Qb's in rookie season) has 518 rushing yards
Rookie- has no defense is the panthers offense
14 int's

Tim Tebow- out of 31 Qb's on Nfl.com tebow does not show up
has 15 passing td's and 1,708 passing yds
he has 9 rushing td's and 695 rushing yds
2nd year- has a monster defense and a mediocre offence
4 int's

milkman04
12-07-2011, 02:40 PM
Cams got monster stats but DEM PICKS
Tebow always wins and takes care of the ball

I like both but I'd take Cam

alleyezonme3
12-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Cams got monster stats but DEM PICKS
Tebow always wins and takes care of the ball

I like both but I'd take Cam

Yes overall Cam is better, he can throw better, runs well, but those picks, if he controls the turnovers, the team would be so good.

Dynamiik
12-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Is this a joke? i'll take Cam hands down no contest cant compare teblow to cam.

Beliedat
12-07-2011, 02:43 PM
Interdasting, Denver's "monster" defense was rated 30-32nd before tebow took over.

Magic.

Onita
12-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Newton has cuter ears, but Tebow has Jesus on his side. Since this poll has no question, I'm not sure what to answer.

laxster
12-07-2011, 02:49 PM
gotta hand it to cam newton

jaySWAG
12-07-2011, 03:28 PM
that gimmick offense is working for tebow this year but for the long term u gotta go with cam


all qbs have to be able to throw to survive in the nfl

milkman04
12-07-2011, 03:31 PM
that gimmick offense is working for tebow this year but for the long term u gotta go with cam


all qbs have to be able to throw to survive in the nfl

how much "gimmick offense" was run in the Vikings game?

LostOne287
12-07-2011, 03:40 PM
You forgot the most important stat:

4-8

to

6-1

Beliedat
12-07-2011, 03:51 PM
that gimmick offense is working for tebow this year but for the long term u gotta go with cam


all qbs have to be able to throw to survive in the nfl
15/20 200 2

chlaxman
12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Newton

Dynamiik
12-07-2011, 04:02 PM
You forgot the most important stat:

4-8

to

6-1

Rookie...rookie...rookie...Troy aikmans rookie year 1-15, Peyton Manning 3-13 he had double the ints than cam but how'd that turn out in the later years? oh right winning and super bowls, honestly that D is carrying tebow big time, dont know why anyone else cant see this.

cor030
12-07-2011, 04:08 PM
I could sit here and roll off great/all time great/SB winning/etc QB's who struggled in their rookie year(whether it be statistically or win/loss record) but you all know who they are so I won't bother.

Yes Cam's turnovers need to drop down, but he's a rookie making rookie mistakes. It's going to happen. He's going to throw more INT's than Tebow because he throws 12 more times a game on average.

It's whatever.

I'll take Cam. Nothing against Tebow, but Cam is the better choice.

laxster
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Rookie...rookie...rookie...Troy aikmans rookie year 1-15, Peyton Manning 3-13 he had double the ints than cam but how'd that turn out in the later years? oh right winning and super bowls, honestly that D is carrying tebow big time, dont know why anyone else cant see this.

lol this

Anyone who thinks Tebow has more potential in the league than Cam is just retarded. He has the arm and the legs to be something great

Beliedat
12-07-2011, 04:20 PM
Rookie...rookie...rookie...Troy aikmans rookie year 1-15, Peyton Manning 3-13 he had double the ints than cam but how'd that turn out in the later years? oh right winning and super bowls, honestly that D is carrying tebow big time, dont know why anyone else cant see this.

Tebow carries the defense as well. But Cam is the better quarterback. Tebow has completely different qualities that you look for in a QB than Cam.

BrawnySwoleman
12-07-2011, 06:16 PM
Nervous in the pocket, terrible accuracy, awkward wind-up, wobbly balls.


Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Cam on this one.

Mrs Grudge
12-07-2011, 06:40 PM
Cam Newton all day. Not even close. Cam is a pretty good passer at times, Tebow...well yeah.

mospeed
12-07-2011, 06:48 PM
Is this thread real life?

Cam Newton -- Age: 22 -- Year: Rookie -- ATT: 413 -- CMP: 215 -- CMP%: 60.8
Tim Tebow -- Age: 24 -- Year: 2nd -- ATT: 240 -- CMP: 116 -- CMP%: 48.3

And these are Tebow's career stats compared to Cam's 12 game rookie season stats.

Emdad
12-07-2011, 06:53 PM
As far as winning goes, Tebow, can't deny that. "Oh teams win games"... yeah Tebow leads every team he's been on to play better and play for him so Tebow. But Cam has talent and is probably a better athlete.

gottk2x
12-07-2011, 07:14 PM
Could go either way..

Newton has the stats, Tebow has the wins

Beliedat
12-07-2011, 07:21 PM
Is this thread real life?

Cam Newton -- Age: 22 -- Year: Rookie -- ATT: 413 -- CMP: 215 -- CMP%: 60.8
Tim Tebow -- Age: 24 -- Year: 2nd -- ATT: 240 -- CMP: 116 -- CMP%: 48.3

And these are Tebow's career stats compared to Cam's 12 game rookie season stats.
Is this real life?

Watch as this cheeky kunt ignores the numbers that matter.
Tebow TD -- 10 Int -- 1
Newton TD -- 13 Int --14
Also, 87.9 to 82.4
None of these numbers tell the real story, because of the offense denver runs. Not disagreeing about Cam being the better passer, but if you're going to use stats, be complete.

Laxmatt
12-07-2011, 07:23 PM
To the people pointing out Cam is a rookie: He has more starts than Tebow and many more first team reps.

KreysonH
12-07-2011, 08:58 PM
it's a shame cam doesn't get many wins. if he had a better d than maybe. the broncos d is caring tebow. just watch the games.

cor030
12-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Tebow carries the defense as well. But Cam is the better quarterback. Tebow has completely different qualities that you look for in a QB than Cam.

What qualities? (srs)


To the people pointing out Cam is a rookie: He has more starts than Tebow and many more first team reps.

Uhh, Tebow has had a full offseason and an entire season to sit back and learn the game, work on his mechanics, etc. Cam was drafted into a locked out season, so he had an accelerated training camp and limited time to learn the offense/playbook/etc.


it's a shame cam doesn't get many wins. if he had a better d than maybe. the broncos d is caring tebow. just watch the games.

Tebow not turning the ball over helps the Broncos D more than anyone really realizes. I have and will continue to give him mad props for that.

imheartbreak
12-07-2011, 09:53 PM
Oh lawd. I love me some Tebow but let's be cereal here.
Based off 2011 STARTS ALONE:

Newton has started more games. (12 to 7).
Tebow has played in 10 total games.
Tebow has thrown less interceptions (Only 1 to Cam's 14)

Now that we have that out the way let's compare some numbers...

Cam has 413 passing attempts this season. Started 12 games. That's an average of 34.4 passing attempts per game.
Tebow has 158 passing attempts this season. Started 7 games. That's an average of 22.5 passing attempts per game.

Newton has 255 more passing attempts than Tebow this season, that is 2.6 times MORE.

If Tebow is only averaging 22.5 passing attempts per game, that means even if you give him the 5 additional starts that Newton has this season (22.5 per game, times the 5 extra games = 112) it still only gives him 270 attempts this season to Newton's 413.

Oh, and did I forget to mention Tebow averages 6.7 yards per pass? Cam averages 8.

Of course they're both young in their careers, and I can't wait to see how they each pan out.
But at this point, it's pretty obvious to me to say that:

Cam > Tebow.

problemz
12-07-2011, 10:53 PM
it's a shame cam doesn't get many wins. if he had a better d than maybe. the broncos d is caring tebow. just watch the games.

Take your own advice dum fuk.

Denver is not the 2000 Ravens. That D is not caring anyone. Tim plays mistake free football and that is what is winning. Will it work vs NE/GB/NO/SF/PITT who knows. But the kid is winning so gtfo.

Beliedat
12-07-2011, 11:24 PM
What qualities? (srs)


If you put all your eggs in one basket with tebow over cam, it's because you think his intangibles (leadership, work ethic, whatever you want to call it) outweigh his technical shortcomings. Not saying cam doesnt have some, if not all of these qualities, but they aren't the reason you look at a qb like cam. You look at the fact cam can make every throw, but also adds the athletic element as a qb.
You look at tebow to be a leader of men who flat out makes plays when it matter most, whether or not that matters or works in the nfl longterm is still up in the air.
The romantic would pick tebow, the realist would pick cam.

mospeed
12-08-2011, 12:31 AM
Is this real life?

Watch as this cheeky kunt ignores the numbers that matter.
Tebow TD -- 10 Int -- 1
Newton TD -- 13 Int --14
Also, 87.9 to 82.4
None of these numbers tell the real story, because of the offense denver runs. Not disagreeing about Cam being the better passer, but if you're going to use stats, be complete. Is this real life? Comparing rookie stats with sophomore stats?

Joska
12-08-2011, 12:39 AM
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif

Cam Newton.

liftTENhard
12-08-2011, 12:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNC8xRo9vXY

Beliedat
12-08-2011, 09:11 AM
Is this real life? Comparing rookie stats with sophomore stats?
Isn't this thread comparing a rookie to a guy in his 2nd year? Tebow played 3 games his rookie year, and has started less games than cam.

cor030
12-08-2011, 10:16 AM
Isn't this thread comparing a rookie to a guy in his 2nd year? Tebow played 3 games his rookie year, and has started less games than cam.

Tebow has had a full year and a half in the NFL to sit back and learn defenses/work with NFL coaches/etc. Cam had a shortened offseason and started immediately.

Honestly this comparison is dumb and makes no sense. It should be Tebow vs. Bradford or something. Tebow and Cam have nothing in common.

ThaWorldIsYours
12-08-2011, 10:56 AM
I'm a Broncos fan who is pleasantly surprised with Tebow and actually warming to the idea of committing to him longterm. But if Carolina called right now and offered Cam for Tebow straight up, I would take it.


I wish you could put Tim's leadership, determination, will and heart into Cam's body.

cor030
12-08-2011, 11:00 AM
I'm a Broncos fan who is pleasantly surprised with Tebow and actually warming to the idea of committing to him longterm. But if Carolina called right now and offered Cam for Tebow straight up, I would take it.


I wish you could put Tim's leadership, determination, will and heart into Cam's body.

Cam already has these qualities. Just saying.

ThaWorldIsYours
12-08-2011, 11:13 AM
Cam already has these qualities. Just saying.


I watch every Panthers game (Cam is my fantasy QB) and I'd have to disagree with you. He does display some of those qualities, but not nearly to the same degree as Tebow. Half the time it looks like he's pouting or sulking when the team isn't playing well. I do like the fact that he seems to love the game and shows enthusiasm when the team is doing well, but when they're playing poorly he doesn't do a good job of being a leader and throwing the team on his back, setting an example and rallying the offense. He just kind of puts his head down and sulks.

cor030
12-08-2011, 11:17 AM
I watch every Panthers game (Cam is my fantasy QB) and I'd have to disagree with you. He does display some of those qualities, but not nearly to the same degree as Tebow. Half the time it looks like he's pouting or sulking when the team isn't playing well. I do like the fact that he seems to love the game and shows enthusiasm when the team is doing well, but when they're playing poorly he doesn't do a good job of being a leader and throwing the team on his back, setting an example and rallying the offense. He just kind of puts his head down and sulks.

This is where you're wrong. I know a lot of people think that but Cam HAS rallied the team when it's down only to get let down by his defense. When the defense gave up like 30 points in the 2nd half vs. the Lions, Cam rallied(and completed a 2pt conversion) to tie the game. The defense immediately gave up a touchdown after that. He rallied against the Vikings and drove down to inside the 10 yard line only to have his kicker miss a game tying FG.

He puts the team on his back every game because he IS the offense. The sulking thing is so overblown. The entire team respects him and sees him as a leader. Vets are already suggesting he's a captain.

ThaWorldIsYours
12-08-2011, 11:23 AM
This is where you're wrong. I know a lot of people think that but Cam HAS rallied the team when it's down only to get let down by his defense. When the defense gave up like 30 points in the 2nd half vs. the Lions, Cam rallied(and completed a 2pt conversion) to tie the game. The defense immediately gave up a touchdown after that. He rallied against the Vikings and drove down to inside the 10 yard line only to have his kicker miss a game tying FG.

He puts the team on his back every game because he IS the offense. The sulking thing is so overblown. The entire team respects him and sees him as a leader. Vets are already suggesting he's a captain.


Like I said, he displays SOME of the qualities I listed. I don't mean "throwing the team on your back" simply as a literal thing, but also as an attitude thing. He has shown the ability to produce meaningful drives in the 4th quarter, I just don't like his body language a lot of the time, but most of that is just the fact that he's young and emotional.

I do think that he's definitely on the right road as far as leadership goes and sooner rather than later he's going to be on the same level as Tebow, or Brees, or any other of the great QB leaders in the league.

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 11:29 AM
This is where you're wrong. I know a lot of people think that but Cam HAS rallied the team when it's down only to get let down by his defense. When the defense gave up like 30 points in the 2nd half vs. the Lions, Cam rallied(and completed a 2pt conversion) to tie the game. The defense immediately gave up a touchdown after that. He rallied against the Vikings and drove down to inside the 10 yard line only to have his kicker miss a game tying FG.

He puts the team on his back every game because he IS the offense. The sulking thing is so overblown. The entire team respects him and sees him as a leader. Vets are already suggesting he's a captain.

This.

Cam IS the panthers offense the defense cant get their sh*t together, Cam Newton is the Carolina Panthers, his stats are insane he has 14 less INTs than Peyton Manning did his rookie year, Hes breaking records already, teblow has just been managing the games and the D has been putting him in good positions, big plays in the 4th quarter and getting the winning INTs late, and atleast Cam put up a better fight against the lions

TaeBoNinja
12-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Tebow has elite decision making as a passer & runner, this is why Denver is winning. Cam has a lot of talent but dude's decision making is Farve-like.

I'm taking Tebow everytime because I want to win.

cor030
12-08-2011, 11:36 AM
Tebow has elite decision making as a passer & runner, this is why Denver is winning. Cam has a lot of talent but dude's decision making is Farve-like.

I'm taking Tebow everytime because I want to win.

Peyton Manning's decision making was Favre-like in his rookie year too.

TaeBoNinja
12-08-2011, 11:55 AM
Peyton Manning's decision making was Favre-like in his rookie year too.
No it wasn't. Throwing picks isn't the issue, WHY you're throwing the pick IS the issue.

Denver is 6-1 because Tebow has had a dramatic effect on 2 extremely important factors when determining the winner of a game.

1) Limit turnovers - This is HUGE. When you turn the ball over, it's not just a loss possession, but it also typically puts you in a bad position defensively. This is a major reason why Denver's defense has done a 180 this season.

2) Dominant running game - Tebow kills defenses because they HAVE to account for his running. This opens things up McGahee who is having a career year at 30+ age.


Switch players, and Denver is at the bottom of the AFC West, while Carolina is rolling to the playoffs. Tebow isn't a great passer, but his intangibles more than make up for this.

roronoa3000
12-08-2011, 11:58 AM
Newton Vs. Tebow

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmp3h2lvjJ1qfolmh.jpg
Newton >>> Tebow

TaeBoNinja
12-08-2011, 12:03 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmp3h2lvjJ1qfolmh.jpg
Newton >>> Tebow
6-1 >>>>>> 4-8

87.9 >>>>> 82.4

Tebow >>> Cam

roronoa3000
12-08-2011, 12:07 PM
6-1 >>>>>> 4-8

87.9 >>>>> 82.4

Tebow >>> Cam
2nd year player vs 1st year player.
Better team vs rebuilding team.
Experienced head coach vs Rookie head coach
Rushing offense vs passing offense


Tebow will never be as good as Newton.

cor030
12-08-2011, 12:11 PM
No it wasn't. Throwing picks isn't the issue, WHY you're throwing the pick IS the issue.

Denver is 6-1 because Tebow has had a dramatic effect on 2 extremely important factors when determining the winner of a game.

1) Limit turnovers - This is HUGE. When you turn the ball over, it's not just a loss possession, but it also typically puts you in a bad position defensively. This is a major reason why Denver's defense has done a 180 this season.
2) Dominant running game - Tebow kills defenses because they HAVE to account for his running. This opens things up McGahee who is having a career year at 30+ age.


Switch players, and Denver is at the bottom of the AFC West, while Carolina is rolling to the playoffs. Tebow isn't a great passer, but his intangibles more than make up for this.

1: No it wasn't. Throwing picks isn't the issue, WHY you're throwing the pick IS the issue.

What does this mean? Throwing picks is throwing picks. Rookies throw interceptions because it's a huge adjustment from college to NFL defenses. He's throwing picks because unlike Tebow he HAS to throw the ball 30++ times a game to keep Carolina in the game.

All you're doing is explaining why Denver is successful. I agree Tebow is a huge part in that and I have said it multiple times.

You're ignoring the fact Cam is a rookie and Tebow is a second year player.

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 in his first year starting. Manning went 3-13. List goes on and on. People are ignoring that historically rookies struggle because Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco/etc had great rookie years. It's a huge adjustment.

ThaWorldIsYours
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
1: No it wasn't. Throwing picks isn't the issue, WHY you're throwing the pick IS the issue.

What does this mean? Throwing picks is throwing picks. Rookies throw interceptions because it's a huge adjustment from college to NFL defenses. He's throwing picks because unlike Tebow he HAS to throw the ball 30++ times a game to keep Carolina in the game.

All you're doing is explaining why Denver is successful. I agree Tebow is a huge part in that and I have said it multiple times.

You're ignoring the fact Cam is a rookie and Tebow is a second year player.

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 in his first year starting. Manning went 3-13. List goes on and on. People are ignoring that historically rookies struggle because Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco/etc had great rookie years. It's a huge adjustment.


I don't really disagree with anything you wrote, but I think the "rookie vs. Soph" thing is way overblown. Yeah Tebow has a year on Cam, but I guarantee Cam Newton took more first team reps in this lockout-shortened offseason than Tebow has taken in his entire career. He started 3 games last year after Orton was abruptly benched, having taken snaps with the 2's and 3's all season, and he did fairly well even in the Josh McDaniels pass heavy offense (he averaged 218 passing yards per game on 8 yards per attempt and had a 5:3 TD to INT ratio).

Then after that, he was rewarded by.... getting absolutely shunned and getting replaced as the 2nd stringer by Brady Quinn. Tebow spent this offseason and every practice up until week 5 watching Orton and Quinn take 80% of the snaps, then when Tebow was able to get some snaps he took them with the 3's and practice squad players. Hardly an ideal situation for a young QB to learn and thrive.

Cam may technically less time in the NFL but he's way ahead of Tim as far as practice time and playing experience goes.

Suit
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
2nd year player vs 1st year player.
Better team vs rebuilding team.
Experienced head coach vs Rookie head coach
Rushing offense vs passing offense


Tebow will never be as good as Newton.


Tebow finished his rookie season playing sparingly in six games as a back-up (primarily on plays involving the wild horse formation, which is Denver's variation of the wildcat formation) before starting the last three games of the Broncos' season. He threw for a total of 654 yards, five touchdowns and three interceptions. He also rushed for 227 yards and six touchdowns. Tebow became the first quarterback in NFL history to rush for a touchdown in each of his first three career starts.


Tebow > Cam

Why?

Tebow wins games, Cam doesn't.
Tebow doesn't throw interceptions, Cam does.
Tebow leads the team, Cam doesn't.

Tebow's presence as a starter single handedly changed the Broncos team.

Panthers still suck.


Stats are for losers, the final score is for winners. - Bill Belichick

You are what your record says you are. - Bill Parcells

Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats, we’ll keep looking at wins. - Raheem Morris

Onita
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
2nd year player vs 1st year player.
Better team vs rebuilding team.
Experienced head coach vs Rookie head coach
Rushing offense vs passing offense


Tebow will never be as good as Newton.

1st year player with 1st team snaps vs. 2nd team player who was 3rd string
Steve Smith alone is better than the Donks WRs
Experienced HC that you guys were thrilled left?

I think Cam will be the better QB, but give Tebow a little credit.

cor030
12-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Tebow wins games, Cam doesn't.
Tebow doesn't throw interceptions, Cam does.
Tebow leads the team, Cam doesn't.

Tebow's presence as a starter single handedly changed the Broncos team.

Panthers still suck.




Tebow wins games, Cam doesn't. - Peyton and Aaron Rodgers, two of the best in the game, lost more games than they won in their rookie year(or their first year starting).
Tebow doesn't throw interceptions, Cam does. - So do most rookies. Your point?
Tebow leads the team, Cam doesn't. - this is just wrong. have you seen a Panthers game? it's ****ing OBVIOUS Cam is the leader and he's doing so as a 22 yr old rookie. Watch a Panthers before you make comments like this.

Tebow's presence as a starter single handedly changed the Broncos team. - I agree with this. Tebow not turning the ball over is the sole reason why Denver's defense is playing at an elite level. He makes plays when it matters and it's why they are winning. I'd still take Cam in the long run over Tebow for many reasons.


Panthers still suck. - no argument

Suit
12-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Tebow wins games, Cam doesn't. - Peyton and Aaron Rodgers, two of the best in the game, lost more games than they won in their rookie year(or their first year starting).
Tebow doesn't throw interceptions, Cam does. - So do most rookies. Your point?
Tebow leads the team, Cam doesn't. - this is just wrong. have you seen a Panthers game? it's ****ing OBVIOUS Cam is the leader and he's doing so as a 22 yr old rookie. Watch a Panthers before you make comments like this.

Tebow's presence as a starter single handedly changed the Broncos team. - I agree with this. Tebow not turning the ball over is the sole reason why Denver's defense is playing at an elite level. He makes plays when it matters and it's why they are winning. I'd still take Cam in the long run over Tebow for many reasons.


Panthers still suck. - no argument

So you are saying Cam is the next Peyton or Rodgers...

Tebow played as a 3rd/2nd string his first year, started 3 games but barely played in 6, drafted what? 25th? Just because hes been in the league longer doesn't mean anything. (especially since Cam has taken a ton more snaps than Tebow)

If Cam is leading the Panthers than it is even worse than I thought, he leads them to suck.

cor030
12-08-2011, 12:51 PM
So you are saying Cam is the next Peyton or Rodgers...

Tebow played as a 3rd/2nd string his first year, started 3 games but barely played in 6, drafted what? 25th? Just because hes been in the league longer doesn't mean anything. (especially since Cam has taken a ton more snaps than Tebow)

If Cam is leading the Panthers than it is even worse than I thought, he leads them to suck.

You think an extra year having NFL coaches and resources "doesn't mean anything" ? loooool

another person exposed as having never seen a panthers game

Jacket60
12-08-2011, 12:57 PM
Lol at people who think Cam isn't a leader. Also,


So you are saying Cam is the next Peyton or Rodgers...

Tebow played as a 3rd/2nd string his first year, started 3 games but barely played in 6, drafted what? 25th? Just because hes been in the league longer doesn't mean anything. (especially since Cam has taken a ton more snaps than Tebow)

If Cam is leading the Panthers than it is even worse than I thought, he leads them to suck.

You're an idiot. Newton has pretty much single handedly turned the offense into one of the most explosive in the league. This is the same group of players that played with Jimmy Clausen last year, the only real additions were Olsen and Shockey. And the offense was ranked, what, 32 last year? That was with Clausen at QB. Newton comes in, takes the SAME GROUP of guys, and they're averaging like 25 points a game this year. They only hit the 20 point mark twice last year.

The Panthers defense is losing the games this year, not Newton. Watch a game before you make retarded comments like that.

NJLife
12-08-2011, 12:57 PM
1: No it wasn't. Throwing picks isn't the issue, WHY you're throwing the pick IS the issue.

What does this mean? Throwing picks is throwing picks. Rookies throw interceptions because it's a huge adjustment from college to NFL defenses. He's throwing picks because unlike Tebow he HAS to throw the ball 30++ times a game to keep Carolina in the game.

All you're doing is explaining why Denver is successful. I agree Tebow is a huge part in that and I have said it multiple times.

You're ignoring the fact Cam is a rookie and Tebow is a second year player.

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 in his first year starting. Manning went 3-13. List goes on and on. People are ignoring that historically rookies struggle because Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco/etc had great rookie years. It's a huge adjustment.

before tebow started broncos Defense sucked, sorry but he has had a dramatic effect on both sides of the ball.

cam newton has two good RB's. oh and he can also run, but for some reason you guys rather pass pass pass pass pass pass pass. and cam doesnt make good decisions, most the time chucking up the ball and being saved by smith making miracle catches.
honestly maybe if carolina was the running the option like denver and ran the ball more, giving the d some rest and good field position maybe they would win some games. carolinas d has some really good players.

Emdad
12-08-2011, 12:58 PM
Anyone can say anything they want, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, all better than Tebow as a quarterback, Rodgers aside, Tebow this season is racking up just as many wins as Brees or Brady, hell, even Eli, take it another step further, Philip Rivers is a betterr quarterback than Timmy Tebow, but oh wait...look who's on top of the AFC west.

Jacket60
12-08-2011, 01:05 PM
before tebow started broncos Defense sucked, sorry but he has had a dramatic effect on both sides of the ball.

cam newton has two good RB's. oh and he can also run, but for some reason you guys rather pass pass pass pass pass pass pass. and cam doesnt make good decisions, most the time chucking up the ball and being saved by smith making miracle catches.
honestly maybe if carolina was the running the option like denver and ran the ball more, giving the d some rest and good field position maybe they would win some games. carolinas d has some really good players.

What. Panthers are ranked 5th in rushing, like 140 yards a game, and they do run the option. Have any of you even seen the Panthers play this year?

NJLife
12-08-2011, 01:08 PM
What. Panthers are ranked 5th in rushing, like 140 yards a game, and they do run the option. Have any of you even seen the Panthers play this year?

nah.. i just watch cam chucking up balls up and getting picked off. run more.

jross2021
12-08-2011, 01:09 PM
phillyfreak7 voted Cam Newton, that means Tebow wins by default. "this guy" thought Vick was gonna take the Eagles to the promise land.

cor030
12-08-2011, 01:09 PM
before tebow started broncos Defense sucked, sorry but he has had a dramatic effect on both sides of the ball.

cam newton has two good RB's. oh and he can also run, but for some reason you guys rather pass pass pass pass pass pass pass. and cam doesnt make good decisions, most the time chucking up the ball and being saved by smith making miracle catches.
honestly maybe if carolina was the running the option like denver and ran the ball more, giving the d some rest and good field position maybe they would win some games. carolinas d has some really good players.

FFS how many times do I have to give credit to Tebow for Denvers defense for people to stop mentioning it? I know Tebow not turning the ball over has helped their defense in a HUGE way. I've said it 100 times already.

..and name these good players on Carolina's D. We are down to like 6th string LBers/DT's and there are MAYBE 5 players worthy of starting on an NFL team left.

Emdad
12-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Anyone forget Cam has Steve Smith at WR? Jeremy Shockey AND Greg Olsen at TE? Plus a featured back like Deangelo Williams? Guys got weapons.
Tebow had to make something out of Decker, Thomas, where the heck did McGahee come from out of nowhere.

Yes Denvers defense has kept it close, but show me how many times Cam has had to perform in 4th quarter pressure situations.

roronoa3000
12-08-2011, 01:17 PM
1st year player with 1st team snaps vs. 2nd team player who was 3rd string
Steve Smith alone is better than the Donks WRs
Experienced HC that you guys were thrilled left?

I think Cam will be the better QB, but give Tebow a little credit.

I didnt say Tebow sucked, I said he will never be as good as Newton.



Tebow finished his rookie season playing sparingly in six games as a back-up (primarily on plays involving the wild horse formation, which is Denver's variation of the wildcat formation) before starting the last three games of the Broncos' season. He threw for a total of 654 yards, five touchdowns and three interceptions. He also rushed for 227 yards and six touchdowns. Tebow became the first quarterback in NFL history to rush for a touchdown in each of his first three career starts.


Tebow > Cam

Why?

Tebow wins games, Cam doesn't.
Tebow doesn't throw interceptions, Cam does.
Tebow leads the team, Cam doesn't.

Tebow's presence as a starter single handedly changed the Broncos team.

Panthers still suck.


Stats are for losers, the final score is for winners. - Bill Belichick

You are what your record says you are. - Bill Parcells

Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats, we’ll keep looking at wins. - Raheem Morris
- Newton was drafted #1 which means he was going to a terrible team, that wouldn't win many games.
Denver hasnt been destroyed with injuries to their best starting and backup defensive players, therefore their defense doesnt give up tons of yards/points like the Panthers have. Even with a horrible D, Cam put the Panthers in position to win at least 4-5 more games than they have. The defense gave up TDs to lose the game at the end or the FG kicker missed a kick to win/tie.


- Cam is in a passing offense, Tebow is in a rushing offense.
Cam will obviously throw more interceptions. Cams started all year, Tebow for 7 games and he has far, far fewer passing attempts.


- lol @ Cam not leading his team.



Cliffs: In terms of wins Tebow has more. In terms of actual talent and promise as a QB, Cam has far more.

Jacket60
12-08-2011, 01:19 PM
nah.. i just watch cam chucking up balls up and getting picked off. run more.

Do you understand how football works?

Emdad
12-08-2011, 01:20 PM
In B4 Denver had second overall pick in the draft, in b4 Denver got the coach who led the worst team panthers.
Tebow knows how to win, when people see an ugly pass from him, its often not ugly as you think, hes just throwing it so that NOBODY can get to that ball if not his receivers.

lincolnmkv
12-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Carolina's defense is a sieve. No Jon Beason this year...

If tebow were on the Panthers, they'd be challenging the Colts for the Luck Trophy.

Emdad
12-08-2011, 01:28 PM
In b4 Denver had one of the leagues worst defenses before Tebow started.
Before Tebow: gave up 28 points per game
After Tebow: Not 28 points per game.

Also, yeah Panthers are so horrible at defense with their former Defensive coordinator head coach. No.

Jacket60
12-08-2011, 01:41 PM
In b4 Denver had one of the leagues worst defenses before Tebow started.
Before Tebow: gave up 28 points per game
After Tebow: Not 28 points per game.

Also, yeah Panthers are so horrible at defense with their former Defensive coordinator head coach. No.

Panthers Defense

29th in points given up, averaging 27 a game
27th in rushing yards given up, averaging 132 yards a game

You think that is a good defense?

roronoa3000
12-08-2011, 01:45 PM
Carolina's defense is a sieve. No Jon Beason this year...

If tebow were on the Panthers, they'd be challenging the Colts for the Luck Trophy.

No Jon Beason, No Thomas Davis, 2 rookie DT starting both now on IR, rookie CB that would be a starter out all year, playing with 3 string LBs and DTs signed off the street.

Emdad
12-08-2011, 01:46 PM
Panthers Defense

29th in points given up, averaging 27 a game
27th in rushing yards given up, averaging 132 yards a game

You think that is a good defense?

Definitely not but from a defensive minded head coach, you'd think the D wouldnt be so horrible. Also keep in mind that Tebow took the job with a defense that was just as bad.

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 03:36 PM
nah.. i just watch cam chucking up balls up and getting picked off. run more.

chucking up the ball because he has to, his defense cant keep him in the game they just give up a ****load of points then cam has to go back to the field and make up for it. By cam throwing picks hes learning from them and hes going to get better, believe it or not, hes going to know when to throw it away what throws he can and cant make not to throw off of his back foot hes still fresh out of college so hes letting these old habits get to him, if he did this in college he'd be winning but hes at a PRO LEVEL its a whole new world.

pietro11
12-08-2011, 03:43 PM
Tebow is more magical than an iPad, ffs. /thread
Tebow>

pietro11
12-08-2011, 03:52 PM
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nfl/broncos/denver-broncos-fan-embarrasses-himself-family-awful-tim-tebow-tattoo

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 03:57 PM
Anyone forget Cam has Steve Smith at WR? Jeremy Shockey AND Greg Olsen at TE? Plus a featured back like Deangelo Williams? Guys got weapons.
Tebow had to make something out of Decker, Thomas, where the heck did McGahee come from out of nowhere.

Yes Denvers defense has kept it close, but show me how many times Cam has had to perform in 4th quarter pressure situations.

Ok so what about tebows Defense BESIDES the lions game (which they were destroyed by) how many points did that D allow the other teams offense to score?

Dolphins: 18-15 (I dont need to explain why they won, everybody and their momma beat the phins)
Raiders: 38-24 (Carson Palmer just got off his couch you expect him to learn this offense in a day?)
Chiefs: 17-10 (the chiefs...)
Jets: 17-13 (Mark Sanchez is an idiot)
Chargers: 16-13 (Rivers just couldnt seem to get his sh*t together the past weeks)
Vikings: 35-32 (good game but D won that with the final pick)

You cant sit there and tell me the defense didnt step up and hand those wins to teblow on a silver platter, and now tebow gets to go against a banged up chicago bears team with who at QB? Caleb hainey? really? how is it he gets so lucky like that...you put tebow on the panthers he'd be on a losing streak, panthers lost Jon Beason, their 2 DTs are out which means they'll have 2 rookies starting, this team is in a rebuilding stage rookie head coach rookie QB, no name defense. What im trying to say is Cam is the better qb right now and in the future. This tebow hype is just ridiculous and people look past the defense and say tebow wins but what if his D didnt play the way they did? I think Brady Quinn wouldve started a long time ago.

Onita
12-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Ok so what about tebows Defense BESIDES the lions game (which they were destroyed by) how many points did that D allow the other teams offense to score?

Dolphins: 18-15 (I dont need to explain why they won, everybody and their momma beat the phins)
Raiders: 38-24 (Carson Palmer just got off his couch you expect him to learn this offense in a day?)
Chiefs: 17-10 (the chiefs...)
Jets: 17-13 (Mark Sanchez is an idiot)
Chargers: 16-13 (Rivers just couldnt seem to get his sh*t together the past weeks)
Vikings: 35-32 (good game but D won that with the final pick)

You cant sit there and tell me the defense didnt step up and hand those wins to teblow on a silver platter, and now tebow gets to go against a banged up chicago bears team with who at QB? Caleb hainey? really? how is it he gets so lucky like that...you put tebow on the panthers he'd be on a losing streak, panthers lost Jon Beason, their 2 DTs are out which means they'll have 2 rookies starting, this team is in a rebuilding stage rookie head coach rookie QB, no name defense. What im trying to say is Cam is the better qb right now and in the future. This tebow hype is just ridiculous and people look past the defense and say tebow wins but what if his D didnt play the way they did? I think Brady Quinn wouldve started a long time ago.

You are quite the retarded one. Please, no more posting in football related threads.

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 04:14 PM
You are quite the retarded one. Please, no more posting in football related threads.

U mad?

NJLife
12-08-2011, 04:24 PM
Ok so what about tebows Defense BESIDES the lions game (which they were destroyed by) how many points did that D allow the other teams offense to score?

Dolphins: 18-15 (I dont need to explain why they won, everybody and their momma beat the phins)
Raiders: 38-24 (Carson Palmer just got off his couch you expect him to learn this offense in a day?)
Chiefs: 17-10 (the chiefs...)
Jets: 17-13 (Mark Sanchez is an idiot)
Chargers: 16-13 (Rivers just couldnt seem to get his sh*t together the past weeks)
Vikings: 35-32 (good game but D won that with the final pick)

You cant sit there and tell me the defense didnt step up and hand those wins to teblow on a silver platter, and now tebow gets to go against a banged up chicago bears team with who at QB? Caleb hainey? really? how is it he gets so lucky like that...you put tebow on the panthers he'd be on a losing streak, panthers lost Jon Beason, their 2 DTs are out which means they'll have 2 rookies starting, this team is in a rebuilding stage rookie head coach rookie QB, no name defense. What im trying to say is Cam is the better qb right now and in the future. This tebow hype is just ridiculous and people look past the defense and say tebow wins but what if his D didnt play the way they did? I think Brady Quinn wouldve started a long time ago.


AWWW poor little CAM CAM can't inspire his defense to play like monsters like tebow did? guess cam cam isnt much a of a leader. maybe he should chuck more passes and try to be saved by smith

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 04:44 PM
AWWW poor little CAM CAM can't inspire his defense to play like monsters like tebow did? guess cam cam isnt much a of a leader. maybe he should chuck more passes and try to be saved by smith

Cam>teblow.

Emdad
12-08-2011, 06:58 PM
Ok so what about tebows Defense BESIDES the lions game (which they were destroyed by) how many points did that D allow the other teams offense to score?

Dolphins: 18-15 (I dont need to explain why they won, everybody and their momma beat the phins)
Raiders: 38-24 (Carson Palmer just got off his couch you expect him to learn this offense in a day?)
Chiefs: 17-10 (the chiefs...)
Jets: 17-13 (Mark Sanchez is an idiot)
Chargers: 16-13 (Rivers just couldnt seem to get his sh*t together the past weeks)
Vikings: 35-32 (good game but D won that with the final pick)

You cant sit there and tell me the defense didnt step up and hand those wins to teblow on a silver platter, and now tebow gets to go against a banged up chicago bears team with who at QB? Caleb hainey? really? how is it he gets so lucky like that...you put tebow on the panthers he'd be on a losing streak, panthers lost Jon Beason, their 2 DTs are out which means they'll have 2 rookies starting, this team is in a rebuilding stage rookie head coach rookie QB, no name defense. What im trying to say is Cam is the better qb right now and in the future. This tebow hype is just ridiculous and people look past the defense and say tebow wins but what if his D didnt play the way they did? I think Brady Quinn wouldve started a long time ago.

So Tim tebow goes to Miami, and inspires them to go on a hot streak, bravo.
BRB, broncos beat the fastest team in the NFL.
Chiefs had Matt Cassell and they were on a win streak heading in to that game.
So the broncos beat Rex Ryan who wrote a book on how to stop the option, bravo.
Rivers considered a better quarterback didnt deliver, boo hoo.
Yeah, Tim Tebow had nothing to do with the 35 points...

Emdad
12-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Cam>teblow.

Teblow, clever post is clever.

Onita
12-08-2011, 07:01 PM
U mad?

Not at all. I'm not a Tebow or Broncos fan. You're just stupid

cor030
12-08-2011, 10:03 PM
AWWW poor little CAM CAM can't inspire his defense to play like monsters like tebow did? guess cam cam isnt much a of a leader. maybe he should chuck more passes and try to be saved by smith

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

edit : I reread this and one LOL wasn't enough

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

jaySWAG
12-08-2011, 10:16 PM
tebow has a great young defense

Suit
12-08-2011, 10:17 PM
AWWW poor little CAM CAM can't inspire his defense to play like monsters like tebow did? guess cam cam isnt much a of a leader. maybe he should chuck more passes and try to be saved by smith


So Tim tebow goes to Miami, and inspires them to go on a hot streak, bravo.
BRB, broncos beat the fastest team in the NFL.
Chiefs had Matt Cassell and they were on a win streak heading in to that game.
So the broncos beat Rex Ryan who wrote a book on how to stop the option, bravo.
Rivers considered a better quarterback didnt deliver, boo hoo.
Yeah, Tim Tebow had nothing to do with the 35 points...

http://www.determinismsucks.net/archive/Clap-(n1297066381335).gif




tebow has a great young defense

So then why didn't they win with Orton?

Dynamiik
12-08-2011, 10:22 PM
So Tim tebow goes to Miami, and inspires them to go on a hot streak, bravo.
BRB, broncos beat the fastest team in the NFL.
Chiefs had Matt Cassell and they were on a win streak heading in to that game.
So the broncos beat Rex Ryan who wrote a book on how to stop the option, bravo.
Rivers considered a better quarterback didnt deliver, boo hoo.
Yeah, Tim Tebow had nothing to do with the 35 points...

Hot streak? everybody and anybody beat the phins, are u new here?
the phins beat the raiders
Its the chiefs....
MARK SANCHEZ. how do u only score 13 points in 4 quarters? all those weapons yet you still suck (Broncos D)
Rivers is bipolar
Naw but the defense did get that pick late which set up blow to win the game, u cant tell me that they still would have beat the viqueens, ponder was on a roll.
My point is Defense is carrying him but yet you ignore that fact and all you can say is "well tebow inspired them" naw BS does tebow play defense? dont think so.

Emdad
12-09-2011, 04:45 AM
Hot streak? everybody and anybody beat the phins, are u new here?
the phins beat the raiders
Its the chiefs....
MARK SANCHEZ. how do u only score 13 points in 4 quarters? all those weapons yet you still suck (Broncos D)
Rivers is bipolar
Naw but the defense did get that pick late which set up blow to win the game, u cant tell me that they still would have beat the viqueens, ponder was on a roll.
My point is Defense is carrying him but yet you ignore that fact and all you can say is "well tebow inspired them" naw BS does tebow play defense? dont think so.

I will repost, Tebow nor Newton plays defense, and you're missing the point of this thread and the point I'm making. The Broncos as a WHOLE are becoming a better team SINCE Tebow has took the job. BEFORE Tebow, the Defense was giving up 29 points per game. AFTER Tebow, they gave up NOT 29 points per game. Yes Cam is probably a more gifted passer and even runner, but Tebow is leading his team to wins and yes, he and everyone can thank the defense big time. Keep in mind if you watch the player interviews i.e. Champ bailey and Brian Dawkins ( Yeah who are they right ). They both OPENLY agree that he's a player like theyve never seen before and they agree everyone wants to play for him.

- If everyone beat the phins, how are they so hot right now. And yeah, everyone and theyre mother knew Tebow would run to convert the 2 point conversion in the end and they still couldnt stop it, ( I don't know teh football ).
- The Phins also beat the Bills. ( Bills are a bad team right? Oh wait, they beat the Pats )
- Its the chiefs...who were on a win streak heading into the Denver game WITH a healthy Matt Cassell.
- Start a how bad Mark Sanchez sucks thread. Not denying the Denvers D at all, they did work.
- Rivers is considered top 5 QB, if not up there. He's considered a better qb than Tebow, wait he's Bi-polar, eff it he's still better because of his mechanics and overall draft pick.
- Of course the defense has to make plays, this is a team sport and Tebow knows how to LEAD a team. Hear the interviews and you can even hear Von Miller praise tebow for saying " Iron sharpens Iron, men sharpen men", he continued to say " yeah that made something click".
- Defense in Denver is playing great football right now, and you are completely missing the fact that no one is denying that fact. What you fail to realize is the stat for the defense I put up BEFORE and AFTER Tebow took the job.

jross2021
12-09-2011, 05:12 AM
So then why didn't they win with Orton?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2011/02/oreillycantexplain1.jpg

DoubtErased
12-09-2011, 05:59 AM
I will repost, Tebow nor Newton plays defense, and you're missing the point of this thread and the point I'm making. The Broncos as a WHOLE are becoming a better team SINCE Tebow has took the job. BEFORE Tebow, the Defense was giving up 29 points per game. AFTER Tebow, they gave up NOT 29 points per game. Yes Cam is probably a more gifted passer and even runner, but Tebow is leading his team to wins and yes, he and everyone can thank the defense big time. Keep in mind if you watch the player interviews i.e. Champ bailey and Brian Dawkins ( Yeah who are they right ). They both OPENLY agree that he's a player like theyve never seen before and they agree everyone wants to play for him.

- If everyone beat the phins, how are they so hot right now. And yeah, everyone and theyre mother knew Tebow would run to convert the 2 point conversion in the end and they still couldnt stop it, ( I don't know teh football ).
- The Phins also beat the Bills. ( Bills are a bad team right? Oh wait, they beat the Pats )
- Its the chiefs...who were on a win streak heading into the Denver game WITH a healthy Matt Cassell.
- Start a how bad Mark Sanchez sucks thread. Not denying the Denvers D at all, they did work.
- Rivers is considered top 5 QB, if not up there. He's considered a better qb than Tebow, wait he's Bi-polar, eff it he's still better because of his mechanics and overall draft pick.
- Of course the defense has to make plays, this is a team sport and Tebow knows how to LEAD a team. Hear the interviews and you can even hear Von Miller praise tebow for saying " Iron sharpens Iron, men sharpen men", he continued to say " yeah that made something click".
- Defense in Denver is playing great football right now, and you are completely missing the fact that no one is denying that fact. What you fail to realize is the stat for the defense I put up BEFORE and AFTER Tebow took the job.

Kinda in defense or Orton, the D played terrible and quit acting like they were getting blown out the water (except by GB) the greatest margin of loss was 5 points.

NJLife
12-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Cam proving once again why he is 4-9 and not 9-4. nice lead and makes dumb pitch/throw while being sacked and it goes for an int. LULS he makes some amazing plays. but he also making some bonehead decisions. Which Tebow hasn't been making and why he is 6-1.

chlaxman
12-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Cam proving once again why he is 4-9 and not 9-4. nice lead and makes dumb pitch/throw while being sacked and it goes for an int. LULS he makes some amazing plays. but he also making some bonehead decisions. Which Tebow hasn't been making and why he is 6-1.

Cam has made some bad decisions today.

But Mare is the reason they're losing...Mare also blew another game earlier in the season...

NJLife
12-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Cam has made some bad decisions today.

But Mare is the reason they're losing...Mare also blew another game earlier in the season...

nah cam directly blew the game when he threw that int for no damn reason. ya mare had a shot after but.. its a kicker?!

chlaxman
12-11-2011, 01:46 PM
nah cam directly blew the game when he threw that int for no damn reason. ya mare had a shot after but.. its a kicker?!

While the INTs were bad...Mare missed like a 35 yarder to take the lead and 2 plays later it was a TD. I mean shiiieeeet

Emdad
12-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Cam is a good quarterback, physically talented, but Tebow owns most quarterbacks in terms of intelligence, instinct, will, ability to perform under pressure, he pretty much doesnt make really really really dumb decisions, he's the ultimate game manager.

Goby
12-11-2011, 06:39 PM
Tim Tebow is the son of God. Cam isn't. He probably kills dogs as well!

waias15
12-11-2011, 07:17 PM
disregard wins

acquire swag?

Suit
12-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Where the Tebow haters at?


Tebow, another 4th quarter comeback.

Panthers, another blown game from a **** QB.

cor030
12-11-2011, 07:30 PM
Where the Tebow haters at?


Tebow, another 4th quarter comeback.

Panthers, another blown game from a **** QB.

WTF do you hate Cam so much?

Saying Cam has a lot to improve on and is overrated by some is one thing, and I won't really argue it, but saying he's a **** QB is mind boggling.

Jacket60
12-11-2011, 07:32 PM
Where the Tebow haters at?


Tebow, another 4th quarter comeback.

Panthers, another blown game from a **** QB.

We gonna act like Barber didn't give the game away to the Broncos today?

Suit
12-11-2011, 07:36 PM
WTF do you hate Cam so much?

Saying Cam has a lot to improve on and is overrated by some is one thing, and I won't really argue it, but saying he's a **** QB is mind boggling.


We gonna act like Barber didn't give the game away to the Broncos today?

and not a single second half touchdown was scored that day for Cam.


We gonna act like Tebow didn't drive down, score, drive down again for a field goal, tie, drive down for another field goal, win.

7-1

GiveMeYourBest
12-11-2011, 07:36 PM
Vs. TJ Yates

avokshi2000
12-11-2011, 07:38 PM
and not a single second half touchdown was scored that day for Cam.


We gonna act like Tebow didn't drive down, score, drive down again for a field goal, tie, drive down for another field goal, win.

7-1

#winning

Emdad
12-11-2011, 07:41 PM
Looking at this subjectively, I would not choose Cam Newton as my QB to start a must win game. Especially as the game got into the later quarters. Turnovers win games.

nontansto
12-11-2011, 07:41 PM
Cam is another in a long line of "mobile' low-wonderlic quarterbacks who is physically very talented but is about as bright as a piece of roadkill.

Tim on the other hand is of impeccable character, is a born leader and has enormous will/heart on display every week.

Tim>the dog killer

ElMariachi
12-11-2011, 08:09 PM
Cam Newton in the first 3 quarters, Tebow in the 4th??? Aaron Rodgers might be the only quarterback I'd take over Tebow in the 4th quarter right now(SRS).

NJLife
12-11-2011, 08:22 PM
Do you understand how football works?

You starting to understand how football works?

jaySWAG
12-11-2011, 08:34 PM
Cam is another in a long line of "mobile' low-wonderlic quarterbacks who is physically very talented but is about as bright as a piece of roadkill.

Tim on the other hand is of impeccable character, is a born leader and has enormous will/heart on display every week.

Tim>the dog killer

that gimmick offense wont last forever, the wild cat was effective a couple of years ago. just the same thing

Suit
12-11-2011, 08:36 PM
that gimmick offense wont last forever, the wild cat was effective a couple of years ago. just the same thing

a couple years ago huh?


well its 2011

7-1

Destructodave
12-11-2011, 08:43 PM
I would take the winner, Tebow.

Why you would choose someone for something they "may" be able to do over someone that is doing that right now, (aka WINNING), is beyond my comprehension. I could care less about his potential. How many first round quarterbacks come and go in the NFL?

Take the winner. By now, you have to stop hating and realize the guy is a winner, and elevates his team to a new level.

I dont wanna hear how amazing the Broncos team is, they basically dont have anyone of note on the offensive side of the ball, and the defense was garbage nonexistent at 1-4.

Tebow makes the whole team better. That is what leader does.

His ability in the 4th quarter and under pressure yet again would seal the deal for me if I had to pick. I would pick the guy I trust the most when the game matters the most. I cant say I would trust in Cam's potential, compared to what I have seen 6 weeks in a row from Tebow. While he isnt Brady or Rodgers, you couldnt ask for much more that what he has give to his team.

His team does win most of the games. Suprise, that is every football team. Every Brady pass is caught by a reciever, and Brady is given time to make that pass by the O line, etc.

Why people hate the guy is beyond me. This has been pretty damn cool to watch.

Emdad
12-11-2011, 09:14 PM
that gimmick offense wont last forever, the wild cat was effective a couple of years ago. just the same thing

BRB Broncos dont run wildcat...

They have a few zone read option plays, and a 5-wide spread.
All other plays are normal I-formations, 2-back formations, etc.

cor030
12-11-2011, 09:29 PM
FYI this isn't the first time John Fox has taken a weak passer to the playoffs

Fox isn't getting nearly the amount of credit he deserves here, more than Tebow IMO(srs)

UncertainPerson
12-11-2011, 09:32 PM
I love Tebow but if i'm honestly building a franchise and i can pick between the two its Newton no doubt about it.

ne12o
12-11-2011, 09:55 PM
Rookie...rookie...rookie...Troy aikmans rookie year 1-15, Peyton Manning 3-13 he had double the ints than cam but how'd that turn out in the later years? oh right winning and super bowls, honestly that D is carrying tebow big time, dont know why anyone else cant see this.

dumb correlation. teams that can draft a qb so high in the 1st are also typically lacking in other parts of the team.

GetBigyo
12-11-2011, 09:56 PM
Anyone who voted Tebow is a ****ing idiot.

Suit
12-11-2011, 09:58 PM
Anyone who voted Tebow is a ****ing idiot.

7-1

ne12o
12-11-2011, 10:01 PM
Anyone who voted Tebow is a ****ing idiot.
7-1

cor030
12-11-2011, 10:05 PM
yo what was Tim Tebow's record as a rookie???????!?!?

Suit
12-11-2011, 10:24 PM
yo what was Tim Tebow's record as a rookie???????!?!?

1-2, he started the last 3 games of the season.

he was a 3rd string behind Orton and Quinn.

Tebow's first career victory came in his second start on December 26. The Broncos defeated the Houston Texans, 24-23, in Denver. Tebow helped rally the Broncos from a 17-0 deficit at halftime, as he finished the game with 308 passing yards and one touchdown pass. He also added a fourth quarter rushing touchdown, which capped the comeback. Tebow received his second Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Week honor following his performance.

Tebow finished his rookie season playing sparingly in six games as a back-up (primarily on plays involving the wild horse formation, which is Denver's variation of the wildcat formation) before starting the last three games of the Broncos' season. He threw for a total of 654 yards, five touchdowns and three interceptions. He also rushed for 227 yards and six touchdowns. Tebow became the first quarterback in NFL history to rush for a touchdown in each of his first three career starts.


Tebow > Cam.

Broncos before Tebow = 1-4
Broncos with Tebow = 8-5

cor030
12-11-2011, 10:29 PM
I'm sorry, so you said 1-2 was his record as a starter in his rookie season? That's all I read.

1-2.

Tes45
12-11-2011, 10:36 PM
that gimmick offense wont last forever, the wild cat was effective a couple of years ago. just the same thing

What gimmick offense?

Suit
12-11-2011, 10:37 PM
I'm sorry, so you said 1-2 was his record as a starter in his rookie season? That's all I read.

1-2.

Tebow drafted what, 25th?
Cam 1?

Tebow 3rd string?

Cam starter all season catching snaps all season, pre-season, practice?

Cam throwing 14 interceptions?
Cam failing?
Cam sucks.

Tebow 7-1 with a 1-4 Bronco's team.

Dynamiik
12-11-2011, 11:15 PM
7-1


7-1

Wait a minute soo we're all gonna praise tebow and disregard the defense? once again the broncos D proved that they're winning those games, 10 points? are you serious?
I dont hate tebow Hes a great guy (a terrible QB)but you have to give the credit to the D also no way in hell they would have won this if cutler was still in it

but lets face it tebow has been going against scrubs, cam has been going against beastly teams.

x ShAnE x
12-11-2011, 11:47 PM
Keep in mind this is coming from a Cam hater:

He is a monster.
I agree that people will soon figure out Tebow's weakness and put a stop to him. Plus hes only played average teams I think.

Cam is just a freak of nature. I still say had Cam walked into any other situation he wouldve been average. Because he couldve gotten away with it.
I've seen Cam break some tackles (he even did it this sunday against ATL) that not many other people would break. When he learns to control his arm he will be insane. However, when Tebow works on his passing game he will be pretty sick too.

But overall I just gotta go with Cam. They both sorta did the same thing but at the end of the day I rather have Cam lining up under center. If he had a decent defense and more weapons on offense he would be straight out nasty. They dont even have a line. I can only hope they pick up some good people in the draft. I'm not a Carolina fan but I live here so of course I want them to do good.

And lets all be real tea. When are we ever gonna give the kicker some credit for all the fuking field goals he's kicked because the receivers cant catch a pass from Tebow if he underhanded it to them?

Jacket60
12-12-2011, 12:08 AM
You starting to understand how football works?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here. You said Panthers should run the ball more. They average 150 yards rushing a game. You say they should still run more. You can't just run the ball on every down. Not every run is going to go for 5+ yards. What happens when it's 3rd and long? You gonna run or pass? Different situations calls for different playcalling.

Jacket60
12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
Cam is another in a long line of "mobile' low-wonderlic quarterbacks who is physically very talented but is about as bright as a piece of roadkill.

Tim on the other hand is of impeccable character, is a born leader and has enormous will/heart on display every week.

Tim>the dog killer

Oh look, another one of those guys who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Brobbeh
12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
Saw on ESPN when they compared the stats, Tim Tebow is actually having a better first season than John Elway. I thought it was funny.

Newton is the more conventional NFL QB, which is going to get him the votes.

tobyziegler
12-12-2011, 12:22 AM
this conversation always reminds me of the raw talent versus ready made player comparison. Who would you take, the player who is has raw talent and a mile to develop or do you take the player who has peaked and is ready to play.

I think you have to take it team by team, my sense is each team has picked a player to suit their needs. Denver is developing as is their QB, you take Tebow because if he improves his throwing even by a small percentage, his natural talent and athleticism will get him past Newton eventually.

I like both but Tebow has the most to learn and grow, you stay with him.

krowbro
12-12-2011, 02:04 AM
Cam Newton is technically a much better QB but Tebow is by far and away the better leader; newton is going to be a champion without a doubt but if he had the same drive and determination that tebow has (not to say newton doesn't have that, but certainly not to the same effect) to inspire and instill belief in his team he would probably be on track to being one of the best quarterbacks of all time

it annoys me how people find anything to pick at tebow, because he really is the absolute perfect role model for the game. this is someone who has taken criticism day in day out and outright called a **** player with horrendous technical attributes and has managed to turn it around despite all odds yet continues to stay overwhelmingly humble. sometimes being a good QB is more than just throwing 20 passes a game

Suit
12-12-2011, 04:19 AM
Wait a minute soo we're all gonna praise tebow and disregard the defense? once again the broncos D proved that they're winning those games, 10 points? are you serious?
I dont hate tebow Hes a great guy (a terrible QB)but you have to give the credit to the D also no way in hell they would have won this if cutler was still in it

but lets face it tebow has been going against scrubs, cam has been going against beastly teams.

Oh right, 1-4 to start the season. Awesome defense.

Emdad
12-12-2011, 05:34 AM
To the John Fox comment, yeah he's taken weak QB to the playoffs before, so why couldnt he do it with Kyle Orton? He didnt even want to start Tim Tebow at first. We take nothign fro mthe defense, but if you replace Tebow with most QB's in the league in his situations, they will surely not deliver like he does. Maybe a handful and Cam Newton, statistically speaking, would throw a damn pick.

Emdad
12-12-2011, 05:45 AM
Keep in mind this is coming from a Cam hater:

He is a monster.
I agree that people will soon figure out Tebow's weakness and put a stop to him. Plus hes only played average teams I think.

Cam is just a freak of nature. I still say had Cam walked into any other situation he wouldve been average. Because he couldve gotten away with it.
I've seen Cam break some tackles (he even did it this sunday against ATL) that not many other people would break. When he learns to control his arm he will be insane. However, when Tebow works on his passing game he will be pretty sick too.

But overall I just gotta go with Cam. They both sorta did the same thing but at the end of the day I rather have Cam lining up under center. If he had a decent defense and more weapons on offense he would be straight out nasty. They dont even have a line. I can only hope they pick up some good people in the draft. I'm not a Carolina fan but I live here so of course I want them to do good.

And lets all be real tea. When are we ever gonna give the kicker some credit for all the fuking field goals he's kicked because the receivers cant catch a pass from Tebow if he underhanded it to them?

More weapons on offense is just being selfish, Jeremy Shockey, Greg Olsen, Deangelo Williams, Steve Smith.

Messiahtype
12-12-2011, 05:47 AM
If Cam was in Tebow's high school offense, Cam would be doing better than Tebow is.

In college, when Cam WAS in Tebow's high school offense, Cam did it better than Tebow did.

Cam has a much higher ceiling as an NFL qb than Tebow does because he can throw better and run better.

Emdad
12-12-2011, 06:24 AM
^ Shoulda coulda woulda?

SuperMario42
12-12-2011, 07:03 AM
And lets all be real tea. When are we ever gonna give the kicker some credit for all the fuking field goals he's kicked because the receivers cant catch a pass from Tebow if he underhanded it to them?

This..receivers...are just. How do you make it to the NFL with those hands

RollinSwollin28
12-12-2011, 07:22 AM
I have yet to hear a tebow hater say why the Broncos were not winning with Orton..

Messiahtype
12-12-2011, 07:58 AM
I have yet to hear a tebow hater say why the Broncos were not winning with Orton..
Defense allowing 15 pts per game in Tebow's wins.
Gave up 29 points per game in Orton's losses.

Von, Doom, and Champ deserve more credit for these wins that Tebow.

Onita
12-12-2011, 08:36 AM
Defense allowing 15 pts per game in Tebow's wins.
Gave up 29 points per game in Orton's losses.

Von, Doom, and Champ deserve more credit for these wins that Tebow.

Tebow deserves more credit for the defense's stats as well. dealwithit

Heaney
12-12-2011, 09:12 AM
Defense allowing 15 pts per game in Tebow's wins.
Gave up 29 points per game in Orton's losses.

Von, Doom, and Champ deserve more credit for these wins that Tebow.

Because orton turned the ball over 2x per game where Tebow hardly ever turns it over thus,helping the D with field position and time of posession

Dynamiik
12-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Oh right, 1-4 to start the season. Awesome defense.

Ok so i guess tebow plays defense right? no no ur right he does tebow is an awesome defensive player.
:rolleyes:
Are you serious? really? so you're not even going to acknowledge what the D has been doing for tebow? you can "inspire" all you want but hes not the one out there making INTs or holding the opposing team to 10 points

Beliedat
12-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Ok so i guess tebow plays defense right? no no ur right he does tebow is an awesome defensive player.
:rolleyes:
Are you serious? really? so you're not even going to acknowledge what the D has been doing for tebow? you can "inspire" all you want but hes not the one out there making INTs or holding the opposing team to 10 points
I think the point is, in a tebow led offense you play much more ball control. The defense is on the sidelines and the O is grinding it out on the ground. Tebow doesn't turn it over, so the defense isn't on the field all the time like they were with orton.

Emdad
12-12-2011, 11:05 AM
The defense also gets PLENTY of rest with Denver's increased time of posession. Cam throws a pick and the defense has to come right back out.

cor030
12-12-2011, 11:10 AM
I think the point is, in a tebow led offense you play much more ball control. The defense is on the sidelines and the O is grinding it out on the ground. Tebow doesn't turn it over, so the defense isn't on the field all the time like they were with orton.


The defense also gets PLENTY of rest with Denver's increased time of posession. Cam throws a pick and the defense has to come right back out.

First, I agree that his turnovers help the defense immensely with field position/etc, but.....

With the amount of 3 and outs they have, the defense is on the field just as much(but in MUCH better field position). In fact, in the last 3 games the Broncos are ranked 7th highest in opponents time of possession(their opponent averages 32:15 minutes of offense per game). I'd go back further but the site I'm using for time of possession stats only goes 3 games back.

Emdad
12-12-2011, 11:16 AM
No ones taking away from denvers defense. Denver does have 3 and outs but they do it running, which means time off the clock. Cam doesnt do that, he throws for the fences, creates lots of takeaways and makes the defense come back out immediately.

rampagefc77
12-17-2011, 02:28 PM
I have yet to hear a tebow hater say why the Broncos were not winning with Orton..

This has been discussed at length actually.

The first 5 games were against oakland (when they were respectable), cinci, tennessee, GB, and san diego.

Their rest have been against miami, detroit, oakland, KC, Jets, SD (on long losing streak), Vikings (without AP), Bears (without cutler or forte).

The first 5 teams had 40 wins, the next 8 teams had 47 wins... The defense gave up 15 PPG in tebows games, 29 PPG in ortons. The offense put up more points per game with orton.

Seriously now.

Look at the last 2 weeks. The defense intercepts ponder and tebow starts at like the 10 yard line with under 2 minutes in the game. Last week the defense forces a fumble when chi is basically in fg position to win the game.

Dynamiik
12-17-2011, 02:42 PM
This has been discussed at length actually.

The first 5 games were against oakland (when they were respectable), cinci, tennessee, GB, and san diego.

Their rest have been against miami, detroit, oakland, KC, Jets, SD (on long losing streak), Vikings (without AP), Bears (without cutler or forte).

The first 5 teams had 40 wins, the next 8 teams had 47 wins... The defense gave up 15 PPG in tebows games, 29 PPG in ortons. The offense put up more points per game with orton.

Seriously now....

Look at the last 2 weeks. The defense intercepts ponder and tebow starts at like the 10 yard line with under 2 minutes in the game. Last week the defense forces a fumble when chi is basically in fg position to win the game.

Dude...its useless talking to these tebow nuthuggers, its like talking to a brick wall. They just ignore what u say and come up with something like "well still tebow inspired them" "tebow inspired the kicker to kick a 59 yd fg" 59 yards!?!? are u kidding me? and when tebow loses they say things like "well erick decker should have caught that ball" or "tebow didnt look like himself the Oline is to blame" or this one "John Fox called the wrong plays"

And like I said before you cant compare Tebows joke of a schedule to Cams, are u serious? Cam played against the best and he did VERY well, are u kidding me? drew brees and the saints Aaron rodgers and the undefeated packers Cam came close, the detroit lions atleast cam put up more than 7 points unlike the broncos, cam has been playing BEASTLY teams tebow would get murdered by the panthers schedule. (srs)

rampagefc77
12-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Dude...its useless talking to these tebow nuthuggers, its like talking to a brick wall. They just ignore what u say and come up with something like "well still tebow inspired them" "tebow inspired the kicker to kick a 59 yd fg" 59 yards!?!? are u kidding me? and when tebow loses they say things like "well erick decker should have caught that ball" or "tebow didnt look like himself the Oline is to blame" or this one "John Fox called the wrong plays"

And like I said before you cant compare Tebows joke of a schedule to Cams, are u serious? Cam played against the best and he did VERY well, are u kidding me? drew brees and the saints Aaron rodgers and the undefeated packers Cam came close, the detroit lions atleast cam put up more than 7 points unlike the broncos, cam has been playing BEASTLY teams tebow would get murdered by the panthers schedule. (srs)

I was the biggest cam hater when he came into the league but he hsa impressed me so far his rookie year. Far exceeded my expectations and took a joke of a panthers team and made them a decent opponent. IF he can continue to develop then he has a bright future ahead.

Joey_Blaze
12-17-2011, 09:26 PM
Tebow has wins but doesent pass very well. Cam has stats but more INT's than TD's. Winner = Tebow

cor030
12-17-2011, 09:31 PM
Tebow has wins but doesent pass very well. Cam has stats but more INT's than TD's. Winner = Tebow

I'm done talking about Tebow but Cam has more TD's than turnovers. 28TD's vs. 18 turnovers to be exact.

inb4 rushing touchdowns don't count.

Dynamiik
12-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Tebow has wins but doesent pass very well. Cam has stats but more INT's than TD's. Winner = Tebow

Read my previous post, tebows scrub schedule is nothing compared to cams, tebow has played nobodies.

Greg1983
12-17-2011, 09:42 PM
this conversation always reminds me of the raw talent versus ready made player comparison. Who would you take, the player who is has raw talent and a mile to develop or do you take the player who has peaked and is ready to play.

I think you have to take it team by team, my sense is each team has picked a player to suit their needs. Denver is developing as is their QB, you take Tebow because if he improves his throwing even by a small percentage, his natural talent and athleticism will get him past Newton eventually.

I like both but Tebow has the most to learn and grow, you stay with him.

Are you suggesting Cam has peaked and Tebow has the higher ceiling of the two? That's the single stupidest thing I've ever read.