PDA

View Full Version : What's the point in weight gainers?



Anonybrit
11-08-2011, 01:22 PM
I have a big tub of ON Gold Standard whey that I take 3x a day, great stuff, tastes good, mixes well, but havwn't been on it long enough to judge results yet.

I know my cals are a little low, probably around 2500, and I've seen this ON weight gainers that have rave reviews: http://monstersupplements.com/store/p/443/1/Optimum-Nutrition-Serious-Mass---12lb-/-5.4-Kg.html

But my question is, is there any point in picking these up? Won't all that weight you gain just be fat? People talk about 1 stone in 1 month, but is there any reason to expect more *muscle* gains with that than on whey alone?

illiniStrive
11-08-2011, 01:24 PM
But my question is, is there any point in picking these up? Won't all that weight you gain just be fat? People talk about 1 stone in 1 month, but is there any reason to expect more *muscle* gains with that than on whey alone?

Reason to expect more muscle? No. But no reason to expect more fat either.

Cals do seem really low if you're trying to gain weight.

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 01:27 PM
But my question is, is there any point in picking these up?They're effectively forms of highly processed fast food that can be used to meet your caloric and micro/macronutrient requirements. Of course, you could just eat whole foods or even other forms of fast food that you prefer.

Anonybrit
11-08-2011, 01:29 PM
Reason to expect more muscle? No. But no reason to expect more fat either.

Cals do seem really low if you're trying to gain weight.

So to put it this way: should I take ON Serious Mass weight gainer on top of my whey protein shakes? Will this improve my muscle development, either directly or indirectly?

thenightskies
11-08-2011, 01:31 PM
So to put it this way: should I take ON Serious Mass weight gainer on top of my whey protein shakes? Will this improve my muscle development?

not anymore than anything else. all weight gainers are is a drink with loads of calories, i'd much rather eat real food. you'll get same result regardless and it would make bulking a lot more enjoyable

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 01:31 PM
So to put it this way: should I take ON Serious Mass weight gainer on top of my whey protein shakes? Will this improve my muscle development?You need to be consuming a sufficient number of calories and meeting micro/macronutrient sufficiency. Neither product offers any unique metabolic advantages over foods that allow you to meet said sufficiency levels.

Anonybrit
11-08-2011, 01:35 PM
You need to be consuming a sufficient number of calories and meeting micro/macronutrient sufficiency. Neither product offers any unique metabolic advantages over foods that allow you to meet said sufficiency levels.


not anymore than anything else. all weight gainers are is a drink with loads of calories, i'd much rather eat real food. you'll get same result regardless and it would make bulking a lot more enjoyable

I am a beginner so bare with me: the idea is that weight gainers will put on both muscle and fat, according to your p ratio, and you then cut to remove that gained fat, leaving just the muscle?

If that's the case I will get some, my appetite isn't great, I just can't force much down in one sitting and I work more than 9-5 so I can't really fit in multiple meals. I know real food is ideal but whatyougonnado.

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 01:37 PM
the idea is that weight gainers will put on both muscle and fat, according to your p ratio, and you then cut to remove that gained fat, leaving just the muscle?The idea of a "weight gainer" is to sell very low quality, highly processed, fast food to the "fitness demographic".

AWD_TURBO
11-08-2011, 01:38 PM
You could make your own as well.

adding pb, oats, blueberries, bananas, ice cream, milk, etc...

thenightskies
11-08-2011, 01:38 PM
I am a beginner so bare with me: the idea is that weight gainers will put on both muscle and fat, according to your p ratio, and you then cut to remove that gained fat, leaving just the muscle?

If that's the case I will get some, my appetite isn't great, I just can't force much down in one sitting and I work more than 9-5 so I can't really fit in multiple meals. I know real food is ideal but whatyougonnado.

if that's what you want then go ahead, but i suggest making your own weight gainer at home at least, that stuff is overpriced. you can blend up some oats+peanut butter+honey+whey for a lot cheaper

lvsteven
11-08-2011, 01:41 PM
to sell supplements?

To make fancy looking labels that have all sorts of bull**** claims and a little asterix (*) that says nothing they say is really true nor can it be substantiated by the FDA?

Or maybe to take advantage of 17 year old kids who listen to bro science about what they need..?

Its so damn easy to eat too much, why the hell does anyone need a 600kcal gainer when some ice cream mixed with a few scoops of whey accomplishes the exact same thing?

typh
11-08-2011, 01:41 PM
I use a weight gainer simply because I can't eat enough cals to gain the weight. I already bring a bag of food and fill up half the work fridge with my food for the day.
If you can eat enough cals to meet your macros and get gains then skip the gainer.

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 01:42 PM
I use a weight gainer simply because I can't eat enough cals to gain the weight. I already bring a bag of food and fill up half the work fridge my food for the day. This is often a sign that you're simply not selecting calorically dense foods.

typh
11-08-2011, 01:47 PM
This is often a sign that you're simply not selecting calorically dense foods.
You're correct.

lvsteven
11-08-2011, 01:49 PM
I use a weight gainer simply because I can't eat enough cals to gain the weight. I already bring a bag of food and fill up half the work fridge with my food for the day.
If you can eat enough cals to meet your macros and get gains then skip the gainer.

You want to bulk, you weigh 167 lbs.

Eat 1.5g / lb pro and you are at 251g protein.

Eat 251g protein a day... that is 1000 kcal from protein.

Then eat 350g carbs for the day for another 1400 kcal

eat 50g fat for 450 kcal

1000+1400+450=2850 a day.

You gonna tell me that you cant eat that using low fat ice cream, 85% beef, pasta, potatos, or bagels?

jarekd1234
11-08-2011, 01:52 PM
You want to bulk, you weigh 167 lbs.

Eat 1.5g / lb pro and you are at 251g protein.

Eat 251g protein a day... that is 1000 kcal from protein.

Then eat 350g carbs for the day for another 1400 kcal

eat 50g fat for 450 kcal

1000+1400+450=2850 a day.

You gonna tell me that you cant eat that using low fat ice cream, 85% beef, pasta, potatos, or bagels?

Why would he eat 251g protein? That is waay more than sufficient, especially while bulking.


Stickies contain macros calculations. Read them.

thenightskies
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
also he should be getting 75~80 grams of fat

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Eat 1.5g / lb pro and you are at 251g protein.
Eat 251g protein a day... that is 1000 kcal from protein.Much more protein that is needed to meet physiological sufficiency and your dietary fat intake is deficient.

typh
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
You want to bulk, you weigh 167 lbs.

Eat 1.5g / lb pro and you are at 251g protein.

Eat 251g protein a day... that is 1000 kcal from protein.

Then eat 350g carbs for the day for another 1400 kcal

eat 50g fat for 450 kcal

1000+1400+450=2850 a day.

You gonna tell me that you cant eat that using low fat ice cream, 85% beef, pasta, potatos, or bagels?

I'm a picky sob, what can i say :)~.
I've got my macros and eating down. Don't worry.

lvsteven
11-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Much more protein that is needed to meet physiological sufficiency and your dietary fat intake is deficient.

Ah pug. you are always awesome with info.
Anyhow, i was under the impression that 1.5g/lb was sufficient.
I have read (from lyle mcdonald) that 1.5g LEAN mass is even okay, however i never go that low, and always try for total body weight.

So what is it really?
Also, i am not a huge fat of higher fat, so pick usually around .35g/lb body weight. that is around 59g in this case, but i guess i am just going off my usual fat loss macros.

and none of this is sarcasm... like most people here like to argue.

Anonybrit
11-08-2011, 02:01 PM
also he should be getting 75~80 grams of fat

The amount of milk I've started drinking I've probably raised European GDP slightly, believe me I get enough fat.

naturalguy
11-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Some guys simply cannot eat enough food, they don't have the appetite for it. Weight gainers can help you meet your caloric and macro requirements easily and conveniently without filling you up like whole food.

It's easy to say "just eat more" but some people simply can't nor do they want to force feed themselves and feel bloated. A properly formulated weight gainer provides quality calories and digests easily so that it doesn't fill you up allowing you to still take in as much whole food as possible.

They can be a good tool in your toolbox for certain people.

WonderPug
11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Anyhow, i was under the impression that 1.5g/lb was sufficient.
I have read (from lyle mcdonald) that 1.5g LEAN mass is even okay, however i never go that low, and always try for total body weight.
Nitrogen balance techniques suggest that the protein requirements to attain zero nitrogen balance in those that engage in resistance training range from 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight [1-6]. FYI: 1.2 grams per kg = 0.54 grams per pound and 2.2 grams per kg = 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.

--------------------
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971434
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15798080
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1763249
4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023001
5. http://sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15212752






They [weight gainers] can be a good tool in your toolbox for certain people.That's what supplement company marketing folks want you to believe. Oh, wait, you're a marketing person for a supplement company.

jarekd1234
11-09-2011, 05:05 AM
Some guys simply cannot eat enough food, they don't have the appetite for it. Weight gainers can help you meet your caloric and macro requirements easily and conveniently without filling you up like whole food.

It's easy to say "just eat more" but some people simply can't nor do they want to force feed themselves and feel bloated. A properly formulated weight gainer provides quality calories and digests easily so that it doesn't fill you up allowing you to still take in as much whole food as possible.

They can be a good tool in your toolbox for certain people.


quality my ass

lvsteven
11-09-2011, 07:51 AM
I'm a picky sob, what can i say :)~.
I've got my macros and eating down. Don't worry.

Really?
If you have them figured out, then why are you taking a weigh gainer?

NCpr1nce
11-09-2011, 08:04 AM
I use a gainer for simplicity. It saves me the time and effort to make my own and it helps me reach my rediculously high cal intake without shovelling food constantly. It might be more costly than making my own, but it's convenient.

sunngodd
11-09-2011, 08:21 AM
quality my ass

Maltodextrin ftw

WonderPug
11-09-2011, 08:26 AM
FYI: Here are the ingredients in Universal Nutrition's Gain Fast 3100:

Maltodextrin, Fructose, Dextrose, Non-Fat Dry Milk, Caseinate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Natural And Artificial Flavors, Cocoa, Sunflower Oil, Cellulose, Monoglycerides, Dipotassium Phosphate, Silicon Dioxide, Tocopherols, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Niacinamide, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Pyridoxine HCL, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Cholecalciferol, Folic Acid, Cyanocobalamin, Magnesium Oxide, Zinc Oxide.

Source: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/gain.html

TARBERTD
11-09-2011, 07:49 PM
I am a beginner so bare with me: the idea is that weight gainers will put on both muscle and fat, according to your p ratio, and you then cut to remove that gained fat, leaving just the muscle?

If that's the case I will get some, my appetite isn't great, I just can't force much down in one sitting and I work more than 9-5 so I can't really fit in multiple meals. I know real food is ideal but whatyougonnado.

Weight gainers are really only marketed towards gods gift to mankind--ectomorphs

Basically if your normal and bulk ~2500-3000 calories then you would be wasting your money with them. Not that hard to hit 3k especially with a buffed PWO shake.

So, unless your metabolism demands you eat more then 4000 cals a day to put on mass they are a waste of money/time. Just eat real foods.

dukend
11-09-2011, 07:56 PM
Weight gainers are really only marketed towards gods gift to mankind--ectomorphs

Basically if your normal and bulk ~2500-3000 calories then you would be wasting your money with them. Not that hard to hit 3k especially with a b
So, unless your metabolism demands you eat more then 4000 cals a day to put on mass they are a waste of money/time. Just eat real foods.


Even with needing 4000+ calories, I'd MUCH rather not waste my money on a weightgaiber and just be smart and eat calorie dense foods I like.

****, two medium sized glasses of whole milk is an easy 600 cals.

TARBERTD
11-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Even with needing 4000+ calories, I'd MUCH rather not waste my money on a weightgaiber and just be smart and eat calorie dense foods I like.

****, two medium sized glasses of whole milk is an easy 600 cals.

I feel ya dude. But some ecto's have this like aversion to eating. srs.

Me and my pal used to work out with one of our real skinny friends. Every day after workout we would hit up the cafe at our uni and pile down food. The dude would literally eat like 1/3 of what we would. And he was like 6ft 2 ~140lbs. So we would sit there and make fun of him saying he wont get anywhere if he eats 400 calories for dinner. He would just rage, chew a bite vigoriously for 10 seconds with an angry face, and then go back to staring at his plate.

Sometimes he would even say "Whatever Ill just drink a whey shake later." Funny thing is he took it with water. LOL

chrisboudreaux
11-09-2011, 08:33 PM
I feel ya dude. But some ecto's have this like aversion to eating. srs.

Me and my pal used to work out with one of our real skinny friends. Every day after workout we would hit up the cafe at our uni and pile down food. The dude would literally eat like 1/3 of what we would. And he was like 6ft 2 ~140lbs. So we would sit there and make fun of him saying he wont get anywhere if he eats 400 calories for dinner. He would just rage, chew a bite vigoriously for 10 seconds with an angry face, and then go back to staring at his plate.

Sometimes he would even say "Whatever Ill just drink a whey shake later." Funny thing is he took it with water. LOL

Some people are indeed like that and they wont get anywhere in terms of putting on size. I couldn't eat much when I first starting lifting weights. I was 5'9" 150lbs. I got up to 205lbs by eating. You can teach yourself to stomach it.

avx81
11-09-2011, 08:45 PM
Or you can save a ton of money and make your own weight gainer. I had a buddy that was going through a $40 tub every week which is beyond me but with all the other help he was getting from other things he always managed to stay pretty lean throughout. I still prefer regular food but I guess if you don't have the money then the food bill can add up fast.

On a side note, you probably don't need all that many calories to gain weight if your 150. Unless you have some kind of hormonal imbalance or digestive issues you certainly don't need more than 3k and you might be able to get away with even less. I also wouldn't go by if the scale is always moving up. If you go to the gym and manage to add weight to your lifts or additional reps then your obviously doing something right. To many people are concerned with putting on obscene amounts of weight before the winter is over for no particular reason. Just make sure that your training with the right intensity and not overdoing it by doing to many sets. Intensity and pushing yourself to lift heavier weights or do additional reps is key. If you plateau or notice that you are no longer gaining strength then evaluate your training program and diet.

ArmaniBri
11-10-2011, 12:57 PM
Most weight gainers taste terrible. Serious Mass has good amount of calories but scoops are huge. I'd rather eat Ben and Jerrys with protein powder and enjoy myself.