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JamesMUSCLE
09-10-2011, 07:23 PM
I mean, imagine what would happen to big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses if cannabis were legal?


http://cannabistv.org/resources/modern_uses.jpg
http://www.dawsonnebdemocrats.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hemp1a.jpg

Triumphator
09-10-2011, 07:29 PM
I don't think that's the whole reason but probably a large portion, it's crazy how important this issue actually is when you get down to it.

Tamorlane
09-10-2011, 07:31 PM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=137778323&highlight=marijuana+illegal

flairon
09-10-2011, 07:35 PM
I don't think that's the whole reason but probably a large portion, it's crazy how important this issue actually is when you get down to it.
that's pretty much the reason..unless you believe that smoking weed makes them crazy mexicans and blacks all uppity and want to run wild in the streets raping white women.

NICKPA
09-10-2011, 07:39 PM
Def makes you think. Repped.

JB05
09-10-2011, 07:40 PM
Corporations are all about maximizing profit...

If MJ were really so wonderful, versatile, low cost, etc....then why wouldn't they be lobbying hard to get it legalized?

Triumphator
09-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Corporations are all about maximizing profit...

If MJ were really so wonderful, versatile, low cost, etc....then why wouldn't they be lobbying hard to get it legalized?

because some people really think marijuana is evil?

Bobly
09-10-2011, 07:44 PM
Cannabis becoming outlawed really had more to do with tobacco and alcohol lobbyists + propaganda more than anything. It's not about keeping some super fiber of the future out of people's hands, it's about making sure people drink to loosen up rather than get high.

flairon
09-10-2011, 07:49 PM
Corporations are all about maximizing profit...

If MJ were really so wonderful, versatile, low cost, etc....then why wouldn't they be lobbying hard to get it legalized?
because anyone, with any land in just about any climate can grow sizeable hemp crops. Its not easy for big corporations to sell their hemp crops when half the land owners in the country are biting into their game with their own crops

flairon
09-10-2011, 07:50 PM
Cannabis becoming outlawed really had more to do with tobacco and alcohol lobbyists + propaganda more than anything. It's not about keeping some super fiber of the future out of people's hands, it's about making sure people drink to loosen up rather than get high.

You might want to read what led up to Marijuana becoming illegal.

Triumphator
09-10-2011, 07:50 PM
Cannabis becoming outlawed really had more to do with tobacco and alcohol lobbyists + propaganda more than anything. It's not about keeping some super fiber of the future out of people's hands, it's about making sure people drink to loosen up rather than get high.

the major beer company's did have some push against it being legalized didn't they?

JB05
09-10-2011, 08:08 PM
because anyone, with any land in just about any climate can grow sizeable hemp crops. Its not easy for big corporations to sell their hemp crops when half the land owners in the country are biting into their game with their own crops

The same could be said for any crop...

You can produce large amounts of corn, or wheat, or rice on limited acreage

Thats why agricultural products are commoditized. Corporations let the sh!tty little farmers worry about the combine and stuff, they just buy the production off the futures market.

Bobly
09-10-2011, 08:11 PM
You might want to read what led up to Marijuana becoming illegal.

I haven't read up on this stuff in a while, but everything I said was from a research paper I had to write on the topic. If I remember the name of the documentary I'll post it; it was about how alcohol companies spreading propaganda and yellow journalism led to the marijuana becoming illegal.

My point was that hemp's potential usefulness and versatility isn't the reason that marijuana became illegal, which is what the OP is trying to suggest.

JamesMUSCLE
09-10-2011, 08:29 PM
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NeverStopMoving
09-10-2011, 08:35 PM
dude it is way more simple than the OP.

it should not have been made illegal in the first place. politicians never take ownership and admit they are wrong and thats why it is still illegal. in other words, being pro-legalization is considered "political suicide" nevermind how many lives have been ruined by the laws and not the plant...

if pot is really that important to you then move to cali and get a medical card. at least we have that available to us.

Tamorlane
09-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Corporations are all about maximizing profit...

If MJ were really so wonderful, versatile, low cost, etc....then why wouldn't they be lobbying hard to get it legalized?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=137778323&highlight=marijuana+illegal

As soon as Henry Ford came out with his automobile the hemp industry was put in the same category as marijuana the killer drug to fuel propaganda to help outlaw hemp. Biofuels are much more attainable than fossil fuels like oil.


"The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust — almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There’s enough alcohol in one year’s yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years." - Henry Ford

flairon
09-10-2011, 08:44 PM
I haven't read up on this stuff in a while, but everything I said was from a research paper I had to write on the topic. If I remember the name of the documentary I'll post it; it was about how alcohol companies spreading propaganda and yellow journalism led to the marijuana becoming illegal.

My point was that hemp's potential usefulness and versatility isn't the reason that marijuana became illegal, which is what the OP is trying to suggest.

Actually marijuana being pushed to being made illegal was fostered and moved along by a couple of big name people (such as andrew carnegie) who were major newspaper owners. They had financed a large purchased of resources to feed their own and other newspapers with the purchase of a substantial stand of trees. Hemp can make paper as well. At the time the technology was starting to be developed to make it viable to harvest large scale marijuana crops mechanically. It wasn't quite there yet..but it was on its way. These people also were financiers for a small startup that would become Dow Chemical. They were developing and close to releasing nylon, and hemp was pretty much its biggest competitor. They had the patent on the nylon production process, meaning they could control the production and sale but couldnt get the same hold on hemp.

Hemp was in this country since its inception and beyond. the world of alcohol didn't have a concern about losing market share for a couple centuries before the marijuana stamp tax act, i doubt they really had that much of a concern in the 30's either.

arnoldoe
09-10-2011, 08:50 PM
you can buy hemp protein powder here

micromatikal
09-10-2011, 08:55 PM
I don't think that's the whole reason but probably a large portion, it's crazy how important this issue actually is when you get down to it.

It is definitely the reason

mikeditka
09-10-2011, 08:59 PM
The same could be said for any crop...

You can produce large amounts of corn, or wheat, or rice on limited acreage

Thats why agricultural products are commoditized. Corporations let the sh!tty little farmers worry about the combine and stuff, they just buy the production off the futures market.

Not exactly.
One of the cool things about Marijuana ("weed") is that it can grow ALMOST ANYWHERE. From the Hindu-Kush mountains, to Cali, to Mali...it is an EXTREMELY HARDY PLANT.

You can't grow wheat or rice in as wide a range as you can Marijuana.

I'm just saiyan.

flairon
09-10-2011, 09:30 PM
The same could be said for any crop...

You can produce large amounts of corn, or wheat, or rice on limited acreage

Thats why agricultural products are commoditized. Corporations let the sh!tty little farmers worry about the combine and stuff, they just buy the production off the futures market.
uh no.

dakensta
09-10-2011, 09:30 PM
I mean, imagine what would happen to big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses if cannabis were legal?


http://cannabistv.org/resources/modern_uses.jpg
http://www.dawsonnebdemocrats.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hemp1a.jpg
Growing hemp for reasons other than production of "drugs" is legal all over the world and it is used for all of the above purposes already, outside the US.
And yet "big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses" are doing fine outside the US.
You need to look at the big picture bro.
Also, here's a photo of a field of cannabis in the UK.
http://media.ft.com/cms/cd358a7c-0632-11df-8c97-00144feabdc0.jpg
Notice all the police? That's because growing hemp for seed or fibre is not illegal, outside the US.
So yeah, your argument is invalid.

Stizzel
09-10-2011, 09:32 PM
Why do people think logic or morality have anything to do with law? If you understand the nature of law, why would you try to change laws with moral or logical arguments?

SoggyDoughnut
09-10-2011, 09:47 PM
that's pretty much the reason..unless you believe that smoking weed makes them crazy mexicans and blacks all uppity and want to run wild in the streets raping white women.

OMG sir, how dare you misrepresent Harry's statement! I am disgusted by your obviously biased statement.

"Colored students at the Univ. of Minn. partying with (white) female students, smoking [marijuana] and getting their sympathy with stories of racial persecution. Result: pregnancy"
"Two Negros took a girl fourteen years old and kept her for two days under the influence of hemp. Upon recovery she was found to be suffering from syphilis."
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."
"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

TheAdlerian
09-10-2011, 09:49 PM
It's illegal mostly because it makes people lazy and careless.

Stimulants tend to be legal because they cause increased focus and production, so coffee and tobacco, both plants, were heavily encouraged and still are. You can still have a coffee or cig break at work, but not a depressant break.

JamesMUSCLE
09-10-2011, 11:55 PM
Growing hemp for reasons other than production of "drugs" is legal all over the world and it is used for all of the above purposes already, outside the US.
And yet "big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses" are doing fine outside the US.
You need to look at the big picture bro.
Also, here's a photo of a field of cannabis in the UK.
http://media.ft.com/cms/cd358a7c-0632-11df-8c97-00144feabdc0.jpg
Notice all the police? That's because growing hemp for seed or fibre is not illegal, outside the US.
So yeah, your argument is invalid.

I should have put it in the OP or the title, but I was pretty much referring to the United States, so actually my argument is valid.

edit: Would you rather have someone smoke too much pot and be lazy or drink too much alcohol and become violent?
I don't even think I need to answer that question...

dakensta
09-11-2011, 12:19 AM
I should have put it in the OP or the title, but I was pretty much referring to the United States, so actually my argument is valid.
well, "big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses" hasn't been damaged by industrial hemp in all the countries where it's legal, so why would it happen in the US?
give an example of an industry that would be damaged by the legalisation of hemp in the US, and how.
if you like.

JamesMUSCLE
09-11-2011, 12:43 AM
well, "big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses" hasn't been damaged by industrial hemp in all the countries where it's legal, so why would it happen in the US?
give an example of an industry that would be damaged by the legalisation of hemp in the US, and how.
if you like.
Lets see, you can use hemp for fuel, which would mean we wouldn't need to import near as much oil from overseas, so in turn, they lose money.
Big pharma. If you could grow your own medicine, then they would lose a lot of money because a lot of people wouldn't need to purchase prescription medications that cannabis could replace.
And here's probably the best example:

http://www.zpub.com/sf/history/will2.html

Yes hemp is legal in other countries, but for INDUSTRIAL purposes. The average citizen can't possess or grow hemp, so it isn't fully legalized.


wNLxoEz2tE4

Blindead
09-11-2011, 12:45 AM
amazing that Europe hasn't banned hemp at all, but they aren't swimming in cash due to this magical plant. swear to god you guys think of the most retarded ****.

angelora87
09-11-2011, 12:46 AM
At this point it's just moral inertia. If weed isn't legalized, or at least decriminalized in 25 years, I'd be really surprised.

eyerate
09-11-2011, 01:31 AM
amazing that Europe hasn't banned hemp at all, but they aren't swimming in cash due to this magical plant. swear to god you guys think of the most retarded ****.

Brb referring to Europe as one entity called 'they', drawing imaginary baseless conclusions, and calling other people retarded. *golf clap*

dapandas
09-11-2011, 02:10 AM
Why do people think logic or morality have anything to do with law? If you understand the nature of law, why would you try to change laws with moral or logical arguments?
In theory, depending on the legal jurisprudence you subscribe to, law should be based on logic (not morality). I don't quite understand what you are getting at, or is it sarcasm?

It's illegal mostly because it makes people lazy and careless.

Stimulants tend to be legal because they cause increased focus and production, so coffee and tobacco, both plants, were heavily encouraged and still are. You can still have a coffee or cig break at work, but not a depressant break.
No, that literally has nothing to do with it (except during the propaganda era that claimed it would cause the USSR to destroy pacifistic Americans, you could potentially rationalize). Nothing inherent in Marijuana makes someone lazy or careless as such. Indica strains do cause more of a body high affect which relaxes people, but to presume that will in turn make someone lazy isn't a sufficiently logical argument in discourse, let alone in legislation. Also, I seriously hope tobacco smoking isn't still encouraged anywhere near where you live.


well, "big oil, big pharma, and a bunch of other big businesses" hasn't been damaged by industrial hemp in all the countries where it's legal, so why would it happen in the US?
give an example of an industry that would be damaged by the legalisation of hemp in the US, and how.
if you like.
America consumes 21% of the worlds oil. Also, only recently have scientists discovered how to turn methane from hemp into diesel and gasoline as far as I know. This coupled with the oil company's hold on the market I imagine is a huge factor. There is no way a biofuel company could compete in the industry successfully. I'm sure many would say that this is just how capitalism works, by competition and natural selection. I would agree if it wasn't for climate change and illegal and immoral wars being conducted because of it.

Also, 'big pharma' would only be affected by Marijuana (you can't patent marijuana currently, though in the 18th century, alcohol, opium and marijuana were the most used ingredients in patented prescription drugs), not hemp as it has few medical applications.

An example of an industry that would be damaged by the legalisation of hemp or marijuana? Well the point is that no industry as such would be damaged, just certain companies within those industries. Except for /potentially/ tobacco and alcohol industries (I have NFI idea, and it could be argued either way as weed is a substitute and compliment good, but I can't find stats for portugal from pre legalisation and now). Also if you considered drug enforcement and the judicial system an industry then that would be affected. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/drug.cfm - Very strong increases in drug arrests and I have read that ~50% of them are for marijuana with ~89% of those for possession (though these stats vary depending on the source and I can't find anything on that site (though some relevant info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Violent_and_non violent_crime)

I personally think it is the pharmaceutical industry that would be affected the most.

AnIrIsHbOy
09-11-2011, 02:21 AM
It's also the United Nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs
"Russian Minister of Interior Affairs Boris Gryzlov told the State Duma that "total prohibition" of illicit drug use was "not the government's own initiative...but rather the result of our responsibility to implement the UN drug conventions of 1961, 1971, and 1988."

TheAdlerian
09-11-2011, 02:37 AM
No, that literally has nothing to do with it (except during the propaganda era that claimed it would cause the USSR to destroy pacifistic Americans, you could potentially rationalize). Nothing inherent in Marijuana makes someone lazy or careless as such. Indica strains do cause more of a body high affect which relaxes people, but to presume that will in turn make someone lazy isn't a sufficiently logical argument in discourse, let alone in legislation. Also, I seriously hope tobacco smoking isn't still encouraged anywhere near where you live.


This is nonsense.

I hate these weed threads where people pretend it's not an intoxicant and that's the only reason people are interested.

inb4 it cures cancer.

Misanthropic91
09-11-2011, 02:49 AM
This is nonsense.

I hate these weed threads where people pretend it's not an intoxicant and that's the only reason people are interested.

inb4 it cures cancer.

What is your opinion on alcohol?

Ofcourse Marijuana is in some ways hurtfull to the body but how far is greatly exaggerated. Truth is when smoked properly out of a bong/vaporizer it might even be less damaging then smoking cigarettes, wich are legal aswell.

You cant deny the medicinal and therapeutic potential Marijuana has, imo you could compare its potentially dangerous side effects with the same negative side effects you'd get from 'normal' meds. The fact that its use is still frowned upon even here in The Netherlands by some 'because its drugs' is very hypocrite, you take more than 1 benzo and you're gonna feel pretty high too. Yet everyone sees these kind of meds as acceptable and normal.

AnIrIsHbOy
09-11-2011, 03:03 AM
What is your opinion on alcohol?

Ofcourse Marijuana is in some ways hurtfull to the body but how far is greatly exaggerated. Truth is when smoked properly out of a bong/vaporizer it might even be less damaging then smoking cigarettes, wich are legal aswell.

You cant deny the medicinal and therapeutic potential Marijuana has, imo you could compare its potentially dangerous side effects with the same negative side effects you'd get from 'normal' meds. The fact that its use is still frowned upon even here in The Netherlands by some 'because its drugs' is very hypocrite, you take more than 1 benzo and you're gonna feel pretty high too. Yet everyone sees these kind of meds as acceptable and normal.Hey since you're from Netherlands can I ask why MJ is still technically illegal?
It it because of the bureaucratic UN?

Misanthropic91
09-11-2011, 03:09 AM
Hey since you're from Netherlands can I ask why MJ is still technically illegal?
It it because of the bureaucratic UN?

Not sure how it was exactly done, but i know it isnt because of pressure from outside countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

Maybe you could find more info there, the situation is very complicated here and tbh i dont quite get it completely myself.

JamesMUSCLE
09-11-2011, 12:56 PM
In theory, depending on the legal jurisprudence you subscribe to, law should be based on logic (not morality). I don't quite understand what you are getting at, or is it sarcasm?

No, that literally has nothing to do with it (except during the propaganda era that claimed it would cause the USSR to destroy pacifistic Americans, you could potentially rationalize). Nothing inherent in Marijuana makes someone lazy or careless as such. Indica strains do cause more of a body high affect which relaxes people, but to presume that will in turn make someone lazy isn't a sufficiently logical argument in discourse, let alone in legislation. Also, I seriously hope tobacco smoking isn't still encouraged anywhere near where you live.


America consumes 21% of the worlds oil. Also, only recently have scientists discovered how to turn methane from hemp into diesel and gasoline as far as I know. This coupled with the oil company's hold on the market I imagine is a huge factor. There is no way a biofuel company could compete in the industry successfully. I'm sure many would say that this is just how capitalism works, by competition and natural selection. I would agree if it wasn't for climate change and illegal and immoral wars being conducted because of it.

Also, 'big pharma' would only be affected by Marijuana (you can't patent marijuana currently, though in the 18th century, alcohol, opium and marijuana were the most used ingredients in patented prescription drugs), not hemp as it has few medical applications.

An example of an industry that would be damaged by the legalisation of hemp or marijuana? Well the point is that no industry as such would be damaged, just certain companies within those industries. Except for /potentially/ tobacco and alcohol industries (I have NFI idea, and it could be argued either way as weed is a substitute and compliment good, but I can't find stats for portugal from pre legalisation and now). Also if you considered drug enforcement and the judicial system an industry then that would be affected. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/drug.cfm - Very strong increases in drug arrests and I have read that ~50% of them are for marijuana with ~89% of those for possession (though these stats vary depending on the source and I can't find anything on that site (though some relevant info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Violent_and_non violent_crime)

I personally think it is the pharmaceutical industry that would be affected the most.

Hemp has just as much medical value as marijuana though if you grow it correctly (I.e. not like industrial hemp where rows of plants are ~3-6" apart)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol#Medicinal_use