PDA

View Full Version : itt: Serious discussion about weather the terrorist really won on 9/11.



bdaswat
09-09-2011, 10:31 AM
Disclaimer: I don't want ANY talk to conspiracy theorists itt.


Let is reason and discuss ways the United States has no recovered from since 9/11. I believe it was a turning point within our country and because of our political correctness, we have never had an all out frontal attack on the groups responsible. This has resulted in a lack of respect and unity across not only the US, but as the world's respect and loyalty as well. Couple in the economic factors and we have a real storm brewing (resulting in our recession among other things.) We have never recovered from these things, so I say in short that their campaign was wildly successful and directly related to our economic / housing factors.



This is not a debate forum, take that elsewhere. Stick to the topic in title.

lasher
09-09-2011, 10:42 AM
hard to have a serious discussion with someone that uses the sentence "Serious discussion about weather the terrorist really won on 9/11."


weather
























weather























































WEATHER

StylesOfBeyond
09-09-2011, 10:57 AM
Their objective was to kill innocent people and to strike fear into the hearts of Americans. They did it. They won. Sucks, but it's the truth.

Thomas7669
09-09-2011, 11:02 AM
They didnt win. I dont see how anybody can say that if they actually know what their objectives are. They dont want to strike fear into the hearts of America just for the hell of it. That is a tool they attempted to use to accomplish their objective. An objective that is seemingly less likely to happen by the day. And there will always be terrorist of Islamic origin precisely because that objective will never be reached.

As for security 9/11 only happened because of massive incompetence. So much incompetence that sometimes I think they let it happen(they wanted to invade Afghanistan before the attack). Regardless there were a lot of high level screw ups, miscommunications and a total ignoring of vital intelligence. An attack like that from radical Islam that is successful is very unlikely to happen again.

Irezumi
09-09-2011, 11:07 AM
The battle, not the war.

Thomas7669
09-09-2011, 11:09 AM
And our recession has little to do with 9/11. Part of it is simply free trade and the global economy encouraging the outsourcing of labor. Part of it is from the lingering effects of the housing crash. And uncertainty and fear is exacerbating it and creating somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy.

StylesOfBeyond
09-09-2011, 11:13 AM
They didnt win. I dont see how anybody can say that if they actually know what their objectives are. They dont want to strike fear into the hearts of America just for the hell of it. That is a tool they attempted to use to accomplish their objective. An objective that is seemingly less likely to happen by the day. And there will always be terrorist of Islamic origin precisely because that objective will never be reached.

As for security 9/11 only happened because of massive incompetence. So much incompetence that sometimes I think they let it happen(they wanted to invade Afghanistan before the attack). Regardless there were a lot of high level screw ups, miscommunications and a total ignoring of vital intelligence. An attack like that from radical Islam that is successful is very unlikely to happen again.


The battle, not the war.

What he said. I should have worded my post better, my mistake. They did kill people, and they did create fear that still permeates to this day. In that respect, they won, but when considering that they probably expected similar attacks to occur, leading to destruction of America, no, they didn't win.

npaoun
09-09-2011, 11:15 AM
They have been winning.

I love the political rhetoric that we must fight them to save and/or protect our "freedoms", but any loss of freedom from the event has come only from out politicians. i.e. PATRIOT ACT and its provisons, Dept. of Homeland Security, the TSA patdowns, etc.

Osama never took any of our freedoms, it was the overreaction of our politicians and military thinkers.

So here we are 10 years later, still in Afghanistan, still in Iraq, and now in Libya, with no clear objectives, spending billions of dollars and killing thousands of people, including innocents overseas. They kill a few thousand of our civilians here, and its an attack against our country, way of life, and freedoms. We kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its "just a part of war". The hypocrisy is astounding.

You then have to look at the effect of the foreign policy. Most young muslim men are not radicalized because of a hate for America, but because their families and friends are dying from out bombs and bullets. They are radicalized because we are in their backyard, and many of them don't really even realize why.

I don't see how anyone can look at the situation and think we have "won" or are even "winning".

MediaDeit
09-09-2011, 11:24 AM
Anyone who believes they didn't win are arrogant.

America has fallen sharply since 9/11, we are hated around the world because of our asinine response to 9/11. We have had personal freedoms eliminated and rights violated. citizens have been locked up indefinitely and tortured for information. We have spent trillions on wars, only to incite more and more hate against us. While we spend trillions on wars our economy is in the ****ter, schools are cutting everything, our quality of education in k-12 has plummeted out of the worlds top 10. We lost our influence in the world, always number 1, just a few days ago we were rated as the 5th most influential country, falling 5 spots in 2 years.....

Yes some can be debated if it was a direct result of 9/11... but there is no question, the terrorists won, they won big time. They won soo bad the majority of idiots in this country believe they lost.

IronRooster2
09-09-2011, 11:48 AM
I think they accomplished a enormous blow at little cost, but they haven't "won" until we take our hands out of the region.

What was their fourth target, I wonder..

ijjy
09-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Anyone who believes they didn't win are arrogant.

America has fallen sharply since 9/11, we are hated around the world because of our asinine response to 9/11. We have had personal freedoms eliminated and rights violated. citizens have been locked up indefinitely and tortured for information. We have spent trillions on wars, only to incite more and more hate against us. While we spend trillions on wars our economy is in the ****ter, schools are cutting everything, our quality of education in k-12 has plummeted out of the worlds top 10. We lost our influence in the world, always number 1, just a few days ago we were rated as the 5th most influential country, falling 5 spots in 2 years.....

Yes some can be debated if it was a direct result of 9/11... but there is no question, the terrorists won, they won big time. They won soo bad the majority of idiots in this country believe they lost.

you talk about ur countries reputation? You want to compare the numbers of ppl killed in 9/11 vs the ppl killed in the middle east mainly Iraq/Afghan from all of this war or terror bull****? hundreds of thousands of ppl have died, some sources say over a million innocent lives. No one won, whatever the truth is but whoever is behind it are selfish sick ppl

all pro
09-09-2011, 02:09 PM
We can't defeat the enemy until we are willing to identify him. We aren't at war with terrorism. We are at war with radical Islamists that use terrorism as their main form of attack. As of right now, radical islamists haven't won but they are winning. With every right we lose they win another battle.

frasersteen
09-09-2011, 02:23 PM
By their own standards they didn't win, they changed nothing they wanted to.

By our own standards they did, we have increased security and it profoundly changed our way of life.

Zedbimmer
09-09-2011, 02:27 PM
The war on terror was achieved because Americans where scared, so who really won.

GrokTheCube
09-09-2011, 02:41 PM
I think we need to take into account the cumulus effects of the attack and the government response that have cast a cloud over the nation. With thunderous applause, a veritable hail storm of new legislation raining on our civil liberties rode the jet stream of nationalism to popular acceptance. This flood of nationalism has receded, but the storm surge of reactionism washed away some of our liberty, and public confidence was eroded to such a degree that coming to terms with the social impact will take some time. It will take a whirlwind of an effort to put this storm to rest.

1devil
09-09-2011, 03:56 PM
The main objective of attacks such as 9/11 was to draw the US into as many protracted conflicts as possible, and thus cause the US financial hardship. This clearly has happened, and will continue to happen. So yes the terrorist elements have achieved their objective.

Tekkendo
09-09-2011, 04:18 PM
We have won. If you don't understand how and why, read the article linked below, or stay an ignorant herpderp R/P crew. All the same to the world.


http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110905-911-and-successful-war