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View Full Version : why isn't everyone saying Bedard > Ubaldo? (srs)



PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 02:40 PM
So the Indians cleaned out their farm system for Ubaldo and are one the hook for at least a year and a half of his salary.
The Sox are on the hook for what's left of his $1M contract, and the highest ranked prospect we gave up was ranked 18 in our system.

This year:
Bedard: 3.45 ERA, 108 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP, 2.90 K/BB, .666 OPSA
Ubaldo: 4.46 ERA, 101 ERA+, 1.37 WHIP, 2.31 K/BB, .734 OPSA

Ubaldo gave up a run higher in the weaker league

So, why exactly isn't Bedard better than Ubaldo?

Greg1983
08-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Pretty sure everyone agrees that if Ubaldo keeps going how he has been this year that the trade was a bust. But he's a guy who if you can figure out what's wrong with him mechanically can be amazing.

And while the NL is the weaker league, I'd certainly rather pitch in Safeco than I would in Coors.

RyzinEnagy
08-01-2011, 02:57 PM
So the Indians cleaned out their farm system for Ubaldo and are one the hook for at least a year and a half of his salary.
The Sox are on the hook for what's left of his $1M contract, and the highest ranked prospect we gave up was ranked 18 in our system.

This year:
Bedard: 3.45 ERA, 108 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP, 2.90 K/BB, .666 OPSA
Ubaldo: 4.46 ERA, 101 ERA+, 1.37 WHIP, 2.31 K/BB, .734 OPSA

Ubaldo gave up a run higher in the weaker league

So, why exactly isn't Bedard better than Ubaldo?

His ERA is a run higher but their ERA+'s are only 7 points apart. I think you're smart enough to understand why.

Bedard hasn't pitched 100 innings in 4 years. Even if he stays healthy we have no clue if he has the stamina to keep going in September and October. For all the speculation about what the Rockies saw in Ubaldo he still has the far better track record of being on the mound.

Bedard is a gamble. Ubaldo is an ace.

poppa_boner
08-01-2011, 02:59 PM
Only a Red Sox fan would go ahead and try to debate Bedard being better than Ubaldo LOL

magicmatt
08-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Only a Red Sox fan would go ahead and try to debate Bedard being better than Ubaldo LOL

Why would I be mad, I'm a Boston fan....I support the Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics

It just sucks to see people in my own city and in the same fan base act like this, I'm actually embarrassed if anything
then please, don't let us stop you

BeastReturns
08-01-2011, 03:05 PM
then please, don't let us stop you

Oh he trolling.

Bedards had a better history ERA wise to, I remember he was great for a couple years with the Orioles.

AriGhold
08-01-2011, 03:13 PM
Oh he trolling.

Bedards had a better history ERA wise to, I remember he was great for a couple years with the Orioles.

like 30 ****ing years ago

BeachBrah22
08-01-2011, 03:15 PM
Ubaldo is clearly out of bedards league, his stats are inflates cuz the damn rockies stadium


.................ERA W L GP GS CG IP H ....R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home........5.55 3 5 11 11 0 61.2 78 44 38 9 25 .51 .310

Away ........3.38 3 4 10 10 2 61.1 40 . 24 23 1 26 .67 .183

His away era was in the 2's until that last start where they made him pitch knowing he was about to get pulled and traded

poppa_boner
08-01-2011, 03:16 PM
Oh he trolling.

Bedards had a better history ERA wise to, I remember he was great for a couple years with the Orioles.

This is coming from a Red Sox fan....LOLOLOL

Why are Boston fans so fukcing retarded...I love their fanhood but they're so stupid and lack so much logic

kyleTX
08-01-2011, 03:17 PM
Ubaldo is clearly out of bedards league, his stats are inflates cuz the damn rockies stadium


-------ERA W L SV SVO GP GS CG IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home 5.55 3 5 0 0 11 11 0 61.2 78 44 38 9 25 51 .310

Away 3.38 3 4 0 0 10 10 2 61.1 40 24 23 1 26 67 .183

His away era was in the 2's until that last start where they made him pitch knowing he was about to get pulled and traded

was just about to post this


people need to check split stats when evaluating a player

PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Pretty sure everyone agrees that if Ubaldo keeps going how he has been this year that the trade was a bust. But he's a guy who if you can figure out what's wrong with him mechanically can be amazing.

And while the NL is the weaker league, I'd certainly rather pitch in Safeco than I would in Coors.

I assumed Safeco was helping Bedards numbers but his ERA actually goes DOWN over 2 runs when he goes on the road.


His ERA is a run higher but their ERA+'s are only 7 points apart. I think you're smart enough to understand why.

Bedard hasn't pitched 100 innings in 4 years. Even if he stays healthy we have no clue if he has the stamina to keep going in September and October. For all the speculation about what the Rockies saw in Ubaldo he still has the far better track record of being on the mound.

Bedard is a gamble. Ubaldo is an ace.

lol

Halladay is an ace.
Beckett is an ace
Verlander is an ace.

Ubaldo is an average pitcher who had about 4 great months in his ML career.


Only a Red Sox fan would go ahead and try to debate Bedard being better than Ubaldo LOL

What numbers this season are you going y to show how much better Ubaldo is than Bedard?

BeastReturns
08-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Ubaldo is clearly out of bedards league, his stats are inflated cuz the damn rockies stadium


.................ERA W L GP GS CG IP H ....R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home........5.55 3 5 11 11 0 61.2 78 44 38 9 25 .51 .310

Away ........3.38 3 4 10 10 2 61.1 40 . 24 23 1 26 .67 .183

His away era was in the 2's until that last start where they made him pitch knowing he was about to get pulled and traded

Stats are inflated ya say?

2540 runs have been scored in the AL East this year.(avg 508 per team)(4.773 runs per game average)
1733 runs have been scored in the AL West this year.(avg 433.25 per team)(4.002 runs per game)
2133 runs have been scored in the NL West this year.(avg 426.6 per team)(3.950 runs per game)

Ya sure, pitching in the NL West deflates your stats quite a bit.

chlaxman
08-01-2011, 03:25 PM
It's actually a somewhat fair argument...similar ERA (except Jimenez's ridiculous 2010 pre-ASG), WHIP, K/9.

Bedard is injury prone
Ubaldo IMO is about to have serious injury problems

Ubaldo clearly has better stuff when he's at his best...but it's been over a year

PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 03:30 PM
Ubaldo is clearly out of bedards league, his stats are inflates cuz the damn rockies stadium


.................ERA W L GP GS CG IP H ....R ER HR BB SO AVG
Home........5.55 3 5 11 11 0 61.2 78 44 38 9 25 .51 .310

Away ........3.38 3 4 10 10 2 61.1 40 . 24 23 1 26 .67 .183

His away era was in the 2's until that last start where they made him pitch knowing he was about to get pulled and traded

Bedard on road this year:
2.16 ERA
1.056 WHIP

Ubaldo:
3.38 ERA
1.076 WHIP

RyzinEnagy
08-01-2011, 03:32 PM
I assumed Safeco was helping Bedards numbers but his ERA actually goes DOWN over 2 runs when he goes on the road.



lol

Halladay is an ace.
Beckett is an ace
Verlander is an ace.

Ubaldo is an average pitcher who had about 4 great months in his ML career.
Career 128 ERA+ is average?

Also, lol at saying Beckett is an "ace" but Sabathia isn't.




What numbers this season are you going y to show how much better Ubaldo is than Bedard?
How about I start a thread telling everyone how Bartolo Colon is better than Bedard?

magicmatt
08-01-2011, 03:33 PM
Why would I be mad, I'm a Boston fan....I support the Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics

It just sucks to see people in my own city and in the same fan base act like this, I'm actually embarrassed if anything
......

LostOne287
08-01-2011, 03:33 PM
Even as a Mariner's fan, strong trolling ITT. They didn't give anything up because it's a guarantee he'll get injured at some point in the next two months.

PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Career 128 ERA+ is average?

Also, lol at saying Beckett is an "ace" but Sabathia isn't.




How about I start a thread telling everyone how Bartolo Colon is better than Bedard?

Did I say they were the only aces in baseball? No.

However, Bedard has a career ERA+ of 120. So, if, in your eyes,. Ubaldo is an ace at 128, then I'm assuming you will admit Bedard is an ace at a career ERA+ of 120, right? I mean, you brought up how a differece of 7 for this year is similiar, I'm assuming that a difference of 8 over a career is also close enough.

People are making it seem like Cleveland landed an ace and the Red Sox added a scrub. At worst, they are essentially the same pitcher. However, this year Bedard has pitched better in a tougher league.

RyzinEnagy
08-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Did I say they were the only aces in baseball? No.

However, Bedard has a career ERA+ of 120. So, if, in your eyes,. Ubaldo is an ace at 128, then I'm assuming you will admit Bedard is an ace at a career ERA+ of 120, right? I mean, you brought up how a differece of 7 for this year is similiar, I'm assuming that a difference of 8 over a career is also close enough.

People are making it seem like Cleveland landed an ace and the Red Sox added a scrub. At worst, they are essentially the same pitcher. However, this year Bedard has pitched better in a tougher league.

An ace kinda needs to, you know, be on the mound once in a while.

Nobody said Bedard was a scrub. Trolls like you look like fools when they're begging for pity after making a thread like this.

rsnnh12
08-01-2011, 03:54 PM
Career 128 ERA+ is average?

Also, lol at saying Beckett is an "ace" but Sabathia isn't.


Jesus christ, why do Yankee fans get so butthurt whenever CC isn't mentioned? He didn't say CC isn't an ace, he was just giving examples of a few aces. Don't get your panties in a bunch

RyzinEnagy
08-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Jesus christ, why do Yankee fans get so butthurt whenever CC isn't mentioned? He didn't say CC isn't an ace, he was just giving examples of a few aces. Don't get your panties in a bunch

Why you mad tho?

OrdoAbchao
08-01-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm a bo sawx hater, but I think OP has a point. It was a low risk high reward trade that the Sawks made and it can turn out to be a great trade.

Ubaldo is averaging like a 93mph fastball this year when he was dominant it was averaging 97mph and he could reach 99-100mph on occasion. I think it was a decent trade for both teams, but if Bedard stays healthy and pitches like he did earlier in the season then Boston got a steal.

PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 04:02 PM
An ace kinda needs to, you know, be on the mound once in a while.

Nobody said Bedard was a scrub. Trolls like you look like fools when they're begging for pity after making a thread like this.

begging for pity?

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9128/internetseriousbusinessmw7.jpg

GetBigyo
08-01-2011, 04:02 PM
OP isn't that crazy to state this.

Bedard is always injured and Ubaldo is a 1 year wonder living off of 3 months stellar pitching. Other than that, he's been average or below average. Thank God the Yankees didn't get him.

Jon Heyman was on WFAN today and said the Rockies asked for Montero, Hughes, Banuelos, and Nova.

L O f*cking L

PitBillSoxFan
08-01-2011, 04:09 PM
I just don't get people making it look like Ubaldo is like this year's front runner for the Cy Young and Bedard is an AAAA-type pitcher.

When you look at their numbers, at worst they're are similiar. At "best" (from a Sox fan's standpoint) Bedard is better.

PitBillSoxFan
08-23-2011, 04:54 AM
bump

Since the trade:
Bedard 0-2 with a 4.09 ERA
Ubaldo 1-1 with a 7.29 ERA

(and if Bedard throws ONE better pitch in last nights game, his ERA goes frmo 4.09 to 2.88....but he made a terrible pitch on a 1-2 count with 2 runners on in the 6th inning)

Regardless, Bedard has an ERA over 3 runs lower than Ubaldo.

Discuss

Huse
08-23-2011, 05:05 AM
ubaldo is so overrated. other than last year not a single fuk was given

taxe91
08-23-2011, 05:11 AM
ive liked bedard from what ive seen in his starts (four so far i think?) its a pity our offense/bullpen just cant get him his first win. same goes for wakefield and his 200th

ATownDRock
08-23-2011, 05:25 AM
(and if Bedard throws ONE better pitch in last nights game, his ERA goes frmo 4.09 to 2.88....but he made a terrible pitch on a 1-2 count with 2 runners on in the 6th inning)

Stop making excuses phaggot. People that say shiet like this sound fuking retarded.

I thought the Ubaldo trade was dumb as hell. Bedard is an injury risk x10000. Neither are aces.

PitBillSoxFan
08-23-2011, 06:53 AM
Stop making excuses phaggot. People that say shiet like this sound fuking retarded.

I thought the Ubaldo trade was dumb as hell. Bedard is an injury risk x10000. Neither are aces.

lol why you livid tho?

Was that the only thing I said? No...reading comprehension, learn it.

I compared their stats since the trade. I threw in a little nugget of info at the end.

However, Bedard's ERA is still 3 runs lower than Ubaldo's since the trade.

Iaintevenmad.jpg

Murph0408
08-23-2011, 07:36 AM
i actually have to agree with PitBill here. I'll take bedard every time as long as he's healthy. considering how much lower his price was i'd say the sox got the better pitcher in this case. ubaldo is starting to remind me of my good old buddy Oliver Perez. everyone's going to scoff at that but it's true, perez had it all and then completely fell apart

iHateFatPeople
08-23-2011, 08:40 AM
Jon Heyman was on WFAN today and said the Rockies asked for Montero, Hughes, Banuelos, and Nova.
http://i53.tinypic.com/2830w2.gif






















http://i55.tinypic.com/afhkb8.gif

RyzinEnagy
08-23-2011, 09:11 AM
Jon Heyman was on WFAN today and said the Rockies asked for Montero, Hughes, Banuelos, and Nova.

Nova by himself is better than both of them.

BeastReturns
08-23-2011, 10:00 AM
bump

Since the trade:
Bedard 0-2 with a 4.09 ERA
Ubaldo 1-1 with a 7.29 ERA

(and if Bedard throws ONE better pitch in last nights game, his ERA goes frmo 4.09 to 2.88....but he made a terrible pitch on a 1-2 count with 2 runners on in the 6th inning)

Regardless, Bedard has an ERA over 3 runs lower than Ubaldo.

Discuss

Did you watch the game last night?

Umpire totally whiffed on a call, he called it a trap when Reddick caught if, then doubled off the man on first. There goes a run from last night already. If he didn't have to throw those 15+ more pitches in all likelyhood he would have had a lot better of a chance to get Napoli out. In all speculation of course his ERA could easily have been 2.45 saying he doesn't give up those runs last night.