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View Full Version : Bulking Question, could really use some help



BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:20 AM
I've been trying to add bulk without getting fat for about 2 years now, and haven't gained any weight. I'm 155 pounds, 5'8" at 5% body fat. I eat 50g protein, 80g carbs, 15g fat, for each meal 5 times per day (3300 calories) 99% clean food. This includes Pro Complex Gainer as my protein powder twice per day, one of those is post-workout. I workout 5 days per week, 1 muscle group per day. No scheduled cardio, as this would burn precious calories.

I don't know what else to do, I physically can't eat any more. I stuff myself at each meal to the point where if I drink any water I will be too full to eat my next meal. Does anyone have tips for for eating enough or drinking enough water in my situation? I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:29 AM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

Read ^this.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:30 AM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133634471

And ^this.

anna-maro
06-30-2011, 12:32 AM
Consume more calories... Try to pick more calorie dense foods, snack on nuts and seeds, stir pb into shakes, oatmeal, add some olive oil to ur veggies.......
Just make an effort in drinking more water.... Once ur body gets used to it, it's not hard at all...

BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:32 AM
@kevvy: That is where I found my macro needs, which I follow.

@anna: I eat almonds, almond butter, and olive oil as my only fats. I've tried to drink water, I bloat up and can't eat the rest of the day from being too full. :/ Happens every time.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:36 AM
Ok as above poster said and to add to that you don't need to consume that specific amount of protein, carbs and fat per meal, if your having a protein shake for example you could put a little extra virgin olive oil in it, has no taste effect and adds 120 cals per 15ml, simple yet effect way.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:39 AM
@kevvy: Well sure, adding fat is an easy way to add calories. But having more that 15% of calories coming from fat is bad for one's health, and would turn into fat. Correct?

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:44 AM
Not necessarily, over eating makes you fat, not your fat intake itself.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 12:46 AM
@kevvy: Well sure, adding fat is an easy way to add calories. But having more that 15% of calories coming from fat is bad for one's health, and would turn into fat. Correct?



What?!? No!

A Large surplus of calories turns to fat...


Dietary fat =/= body fat


If you want to bulk, you need a surplus in calories, there's no way around it and you'll gain some fat as well

moneyrich
06-30-2011, 12:48 AM
@kevvy: Well sure, adding fat is an easy way to add calories. But having more that 15% of calories coming from fat is bad for one's health, and would turn into fat. Correct?

wrong. dietary fat does not turn into fat unless you are eating at a calorie surplus. protein and carbs can also turn into fat when eating at a calorie surplus.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:48 AM
@kevvy: I understand. But eating more fat than recommended doesn't seem like a healthy way to bulk, in my opinion. Would that really build muscle? Fat is for lubrication of joints, and a low amount is needed by the body.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 12:52 AM
Low dietary fat for extended periods of time will lower testosterone...



Also, you don't need to eat 5-6 times a day unless you just want to


If you're taking in 75g of fat, that's in the right range for you but don't think that an increase of dietary fat = increase of BF%


I've gone from 279 to 216 and still dropping on 115g+ of fat a day!

BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:52 AM
@PhiSig: According to the macro calculation guide posted earlier, I'm already surplussing quite a bit while maintaining the percentages needed for protein, carbs, and fat. It sounds like everyone is just saying to eat a bunch of extra fat until I gain weight...which would throw the balance all out of whack. I have to eat 5-6 times per day because my stomach can only handle meals of that size.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:54 AM
Look, it's quite simple, cals in vs. Cals out, you need to consume more than you burn to build mass, hit your minimum intake on protein ( 1gram per LBW ) fats (MIN. 0.45g per LBW ) and fill the rest in with carbs, you could add more dietary fat if that is your preference.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 12:57 AM
@kevvy: (Look up ^ previous post) I surplus hundreds of calories already, can't do any more unless I eat way more fat than is good for me.

@Phi: Based on your weight, you are eating a lower percentage of fat than I am. Proportions are relative, I'm a little guy.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 12:58 AM
I know that phisig is an advocate on dietary fats, as is alot of forum users, I often hit 100g of fat per day, because it fits my macros and fats are damn tasty, see my sig I am 1lb heavier than you and I eat 4times per day and hit my 3100 easily, if and when I need to up to 3300 I would use them cals on fat. ( my preference just sayin )

Post your macros then so we can see were they can be adjusted.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 12:59 AM
@PhiSig: According to the macro calculation guide posted earlier, I'm already surplussing quite a bit while maintaining the percentages needed for protein, carbs, and fat. It sounds like everyone is just saying to eat a bunch of extra fat until I gain weight...which would throw the balance all out of whack. I have to eat 5-6 times per day because my stomach can only handle meals of that size.


Well you are taking in 250g of protein and 400g of Cho.. You could add to those instead but adding fat is an easy way to get cheap calories. Doesn't mean you'll get fat by eating fat.


Protein & Cho = 4 calories per gram

Fat = 9 calories per gram

So you can see why people say up your fats. You can easily get more calories that way (not to mention fat = flavor so you'll love your food)

moneyrich
06-30-2011, 01:02 AM
@PhiSig: According to the macro calculation guide posted earlier, I'm already surplussing quite a bit while maintaining the percentages needed for protein, carbs, and fat. It sounds like everyone is just saying to eat a bunch of extra fat until I gain weight...which would throw the balance all out of whack. I have to eat 5-6 times per day because my stomach can only handle meals of that size.

maybe you are overestimating your cals? maybe underestimating your maintenance? you can always get a bodybug if you got the money.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:04 AM
@Phi: I know the calories for macros, but replacing protein or carbs with extra fat yields bad ratios. I'm not going for calories at any cost, there is a certain amount of each macro needed each day. Too much dietary fat is bad for health in general, no matter where it comes from. That much I know.

@money: I'll recalculate but more than my current 3300 would be very difficult for me. I have trouble eating a lot of food while keeping fat in reasonable quantities.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:08 AM
@Phi: I know the calories for macros, but replacing protein or carbs with extra fat yields bad ratios. I'm not going for calories at any cost, there is a certain amount of each macro needed each day. Too much dietary fat is bad for health in general, no matter where it comes from. That much I know.


As long as you're hitting a decent # on protein, there's no way you'll be taking in "too much dietary fat" if you are eating 10-20% above calorie maintenance

Well at 155 lbs, you sure as heck dont need 250g of protein.. I'm 60 lbs on you and I dont even take in 250g.

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 01:12 AM
Phisig, I think he should speak to Wonderpug on dietary fat!! Haha

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:12 AM
@Phi: I've always read that normal active adults need 1g per lb body weight. Bodybuilders need 1.5-2g per lb body weight. 250g is right in between, 1 and 2/3 grams per lb. That's what people usually say to up when you wanna bulk, so that's why I have that amount. Doesn't seem high at all.

@kevvy: Wonderpug? Lol

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:14 AM
@Phi: I know the calories for macros, but replacing protein or carbs with extra fat yields bad ratios. I'm not going for calories at any cost, there is a certain amount of each macro needed each day. Too much dietary fat is bad for health in general, no matter where it comes from. That much I know.

@money: I'll recalculate but more than my current 3300 would be very difficult for me. I have trouble eating a lot of food while keeping fat in reasonable quantities.

How do you know this?

What scientific evidence do you have that pertains to your situation to support this theory of yours?

awkwrdturtle
06-30-2011, 01:14 AM
@kevvy: (Look up ^ previous post) I surplus hundreds of calories already, can't do any more unless I eat way more fat than is good for me.


You obviously are not in a hundreds of calories a day surplus if you aren't gaining weight...

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:15 AM
Phisig, I think he should speak to Wonderpug on dietary fat!! Haha
Indeed, actually I was looking for that pro sat fat study pug posted in a thread the other day, anyone got it?

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 01:16 AM
Wonderpug is a wonder of knowledge, that man has 250g of fat per day, he hits all of his macros and has a preference to fats.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:18 AM
@turtle: Exactly, I guess the calculators don't work on me. But I can't eat any more while staying within proper macro ratios. Which is the problem :/

@Tpugs: I can't pull them out of thin air at the moment but I've read many scientifically based health articles saying any more than 10-15% of total calories from fat is bad. Even saw it here on bodybuilding.com. I don't have anything against fat you guys, just going by what the experts say.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:18 AM
Phisig, I think he should speak to Wonderpug on dietary fat!! Haha


OP would pass out if he knew Pug ate more fat just from bacon than he takes in during an entire day!




OP, if you added 5-6 slices of Bacon & a tbsp of olive oil a day, you'd be set!


6 slices of bacon = about 540 cals, 42g of fat & 30g of protein!!

Olive oil = 120 cals & 14g of fat!

That's 660 added calories (exactly 20% above 3,300 current calories)


You'll be building mass in no time (assuming your routine is solid)

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 01:19 AM
Fats are essential, whether it be saturated, polyunsaturated or monounsaturated, what you might be thinking of is hydrogenated fat, to much of that it bad for overall health.

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:21 AM
Indeed, actually I was looking for that pro sat fat study pug posted in a thread the other day, anyone got it?


http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1102.full

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:22 AM
Don't take this the wrong way but.. - you are incredibly thick.

It isn't about the ratios, your body doesn't give a rat's a$$ about ratios.

You need to hit certain quantities.

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:22 AM
Thanks! That's the one.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:24 AM
That may be so, I'm just going off of what I've read which refers to all fats. Holy hell, bacon is probably the last thing I would eat to add fat, since most of it is saturated. I'd just add more olive oil to my stir frys. I guess it's worth a try you guys, but I'm blaming kevvy if I turn into a fatty. Lol

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:24 AM
Thanks! That's the one.

Welcome! I sent that out to all of my brotastic friends and half of them are amazed and the other half are in denial

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:27 AM
That may be so, I'm just going off of what I've read which refers to all fats. Holy hell, bacon is probably the last thing I would eat to add fat, since most of it is saturated. I'd just add more olive oil to my stir frys. I guess it's worth a try you guys, but I'm blaming kevvy if I turn into a fatty. Lol


Bacon may be one of the tastiest fats to eat! Try ice cream instead..



Also, Saturated fats are GOOD for you...

http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1102.full


Read that

kevvy83
06-30-2011, 01:27 AM
That may be so, I'm just going off of what I've read which refers to all fats. Holy hell, bacon is probably the last thing I would eat to add fat, since most of it is saturated. I'd just add more olive oil to my stir frys. I guess it's worth a try you guys, but I'm blaming kevvy if I turn into a fatty. Lol

Nope... you will be thanking me and the other guys who have posted for your info and knowledge, all we are trying to do is broaden your horizons, and show you that to hit you calorie target is easier than you think. Good luck OP

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:27 AM
That may be so, I'm just going off of what I've read which refers to all fats. Holy hell, bacon is probably the last thing I would eat to add fat, since most of it is saturated. I'd just add more olive oil to my stir frys. I guess it's worth a try you guys, but I'm blaming kevvy if I turn into a fatty. Lol

I get it, thing to keep in mind though is that scientific research is constantly evolving. What seemed like Gospel truth a year ago could be completely irrelevant today. It is always good to keep an open mind. Have a read of that Saturated Fat article Phi put up, then come to your own conclusions about what works best for you.


Welcome! I sent that out to all of my brotastic friends and half of them are amazed and the other half are in denial

Ha! Yeah, it's definitely a top read.

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:28 AM
@Tpugs: I use the ratios because everyone everywhere flaunts the ratios. I'm here to be healthy, not eat bacon until I turn into a viking. I'll stick to my nuts and olive oil. Call me thick but I go by what the majority of reputable people in the world say is necessary.

Thanks all, definitely some food for thought. I'll look more into fats and see if it helps.

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:32 AM
@Tpugs: I use the ratios because everyone everywhere flaunts the ratios. I'm here to be healthy, not eat bacon until I turn into a viking. I'll stick to my nuts and olive oil. Call me thick but I go by what the majority of reputable people in the world say is necessary.

Thanks all, definitely some food for thought. I'll look more into fats and see if it helps.
Have a read of the "reputable" people on this site then come back and tell me how many of them believe in ratios. Here's a starting list that comes to mind:

Emma-Leigh
Alan Aragon
WonderPug
YeomenKek
AlwaysTryin

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:34 AM
@Tpugs: I use the ratios because everyone everywhere flaunts the ratios. I'm here to be healthy, not eat bacon until I turn into a viking. Call me thick but I go by what the majority of reputable people in the world say is necessary.



Look, you're obviously not eating enough calories or you'd be bulking...


Your Protein & Cho macros are more than enough so it only makes sense to up your fats!

Dietary fats do you much for you! I guarantee you take in 100+ grams and your girlfriend/wife will be fighting you off with a stick!

I'm not here to push bacon down your throat, but I saw that you ate "clean". You should enjoy yourself a little and eat some fatty foods you enjoy! It's not going to make you fat.

Too many calories over a period of time makes you fat.

I don't really care where you get your fats, honestly. Do you like pizza, ice cream or even pork skins?

You don't have to eat "clean" 24/7..

Eating "dirty" won't make you fat

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:34 AM
Oh by reputable I mean scientists. Like professional nutritionists and stuff. As for the people on here, different things work for different people. Yeah I know, I only eat somewhat dirty when out to dinner or special occasions. I just like to treat food as fuel, I don't need to eat crap to enjoy food. I'll try your 100+ grams, you may be right. I guess it depends on the body.

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:37 AM
Oh by reputable I mean scientists. Like professional nutritionists and stuff. As for the people on here, different things work for different people.
Emma-Leigh:


So – The simple things… I live in Sydney, Australia, and have a MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery). My first degree was in Veterinary Medicine. I have a Cert. III in fitness and Cert. IV in nutrition.

I have a keen interest in health, nutrition, exercise and wellness. I have spent time at the Biochemistry and Nutrition Centre at University of Sydney (where the infamous Glycaemic Index ‘sugar clinics’ are based) and undertaken an option placement at the Diabetes and Obesity Group at the Garvan Institute of Medical Research, Sydney, NSW.

Early 2005 I started a small consultation service in exercise, nutrition, metabolism, and wellness and I now do several things: -

I am a doctor at a hospital in Sydney
I help compile research data at The Garvan Institute for Medical Research
And I continue to run my consultation service


Yeah you're right definitely not reputable...

Why don't you actually research who I called out before you attack their credibility

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:40 AM
There are plenty of reputable people on here too, you can throw out names but I'm not going to give them each a background check. All I meant was my sources are from like scientific journals, stuff like that. I'm sure our sources overlap. Everyone is going to say something different of course.

TPugs
06-30-2011, 01:42 AM
There are plenty of reputable people on here too, you can throw out names but I'm not going to give them each a background check. All I meant was my sources are from like scientific journals, stuff like that. I'm sure our sources overlap. Everyone is going to say something different of course.

I get it, thing to keep in mind though is that scientific research is constantly evolving. What seemed like Gospel truth a year ago could be completely irrelevant today. It is always good to keep an open mind. Have a read of that Saturated Fat article Phi put up, then come to your own conclusions about what works best for you.
This

PhiSig2298
06-30-2011, 01:43 AM
Oh by reputable I mean scientists. Like professional nutritionists and stuff. As for the people on here, different things work for different people. Yeah I know, I only eat somewhat dirty when out to dinner or special occasions. I just like to treat food as fuel, I don't need to eat crap to enjoy food. I'll try your 100+ grams, you may be right. I guess it depends on the body.


I know Alan is a professional nutritionist.. He has helped professional athletes as well as common people like you and Me


At the very least, you could try upping your fats for a week or so to create a surplus to bulk.. See how it feels!

We both know you won't get fat in a week! So it's worth a shot! Like I said, the other macros are more than enough..


Also, after calculating your macros, it's more than 3,300.. Are you weighing foods and counting every calorie or just guessing? If you aren't counting every calorie, you may be taking in less than you think

BenMier
06-30-2011, 01:45 AM
Exactly, everyone is going to say something different. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. In scientific communities the more people who agree on something via peer review, the more likely it is to be true. Really not trying to argue with you here, you have perfectly valid points.

Thank you, yes you have convinced me to try it out and I appreciate your time. Also, I do weigh everything and am about to go recalculate my caloric needs. I'll fill in the gaps with fats :)

TPugs
06-30-2011, 02:54 AM
Exactly, everyone is going to say something different. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. In scientific communities the more people who agree on something via peer review, the more likely it is to be true. Really not trying to argue with you here, you have perfectly valid points.

Thank you, yes you have convinced me to try it out and I appreciate your time. Also, I do weigh everything and am about to go recalculate my caloric needs. I'll fill in the gaps with fats :)
Good to hear, please let me know how it goes, would be interested to see how you find it :)

If you're interested in analysed articles/peer reviews and the such, check out Alan's research review, it's a wealth of unbiased knowledge, i'll pm you the link.

bbavender
06-30-2011, 03:12 AM
Guys, OP is a lost cause. He wont take anyones advice and cant go over 15% in fats. Eating 5 meals that are equally portioned is dumb. Figure out your macros, which obviously arent enough since your not gaining, eat them each and every day lift heavy = profit. If your not gaining, your not eating enough. So what your full, eat stuff that you dont classify as "clean" and you will instantly increase your cals.

UnitedKingdom
06-30-2011, 03:28 AM
Hit the minimums for your daily macros, once you have fill the rest up with any other foods to hit a calorie surplus. If I had this problem I'd just eat a couple of snickers. ;)

Christiffer
06-30-2011, 03:39 AM
Op, I would up total cals like 300 and see how you respond. Upping fat is def a good idea if your having trouble eating alot. Also, saturated fat is perfectly fine.