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HellBender212
04-13-2011, 05:25 PM
Which is it? (srs)


does Yahweh ever claim to be the "only" God

all pro
04-13-2011, 05:29 PM
There is only one.

YHWH

HellBender212
04-13-2011, 05:30 PM
There is only one.

YHWH

why is he called that? because when moses asked him who he was, he said "I AM WHO I AM"

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 05:52 PM
Which is it? (srs)


does Yahweh ever claim to be the "only" God

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-2.html

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 05:54 PM
Which is it? (srs)


does Yahweh ever claim to be the "only" God


4:35: You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides him there is no other.

4:39: Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

32:39: See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.

It goes on and on like that.

He also says many times that other gods (of rival civilizations or whatever) are false idols.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 05:57 PM
There is only one.

YHWH

I know that, but explain where this Allah come from. He clearly says his name and he is the only one right?

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:04 PM
I know that, but explain where this Allah come from. He clearly says his name and he is the only one right?

it's the same dude.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:12 PM
it's the same dude.

Why they changed it to Allah then?

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 06:13 PM
All the Manifestations of God were sent by the one true God: and there is only One. Therefore, the Manifestations only taught mankind about one true God. Even though He may have gone by a different Name at different times, He was always alone and Single, the one true God of the universe.

Muhammad, for example, appeared among the idol-worshipers of Arabia. One of the gods these idol worshippers worshipped was called Allah (the highest in rank). Muhammad taught these people that there is only one God, and "kept" the word Allah that the idolatrous Arabs were familiar with, to refer to the one true God.

Indeed, He has gone by different names down the ages; but God is One and He does not have any peers or equals.

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:15 PM
Why they changed it to Allah then?

Allah means God.

HopingInJah
04-13-2011, 06:15 PM
I know that, but explain where this Allah come from. He clearly says his name and he is the only one right?



Psalms 83:18

"That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You ALONE are the Most High over all the earth."





HopingInJehovah

HellBender212
04-13-2011, 06:17 PM
Allah means God.

why is he called that? because when moses asked him who he was, he said "I AM WHO I AM"

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:21 PM
why is he called that? because when moses asked him who he was, he said "I AM WHO I AM"

It's just a designation, like mom or dad. I beleive he said "I am that I am"

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:26 PM
God clearly says his name and humans decided to changed the name to something else. Go figure

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:31 PM
God clearly says his name and humans decided to changed the name to something else. Go figure
Men have been changing god to fit their beliefs since they invented him. That's one of the benefits of an ambiguous factious character, you can make it into anything you need.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Men have been changing god to fit their beliefs since they invented him. That's one of the benefits of an ambiguous factious character, you can make it into anything you need.

Are you saying God is not real?

BobisMighty
04-13-2011, 06:39 PM
Answer
Yahweh - Yahweh is the Hebrew God worshiped exclusively when the Hebrews became monotheists, c. 1000 BCE. This is the God in the Hebrew Bible (what Christians call the Old Testament). The Hebrews believe that if they place their trust in Yahweh, then they will be provided for. The name "Yahweh" is often rendered "Jehovah."
Answer
The Hebrew alphabet has no vowels (a,e,i,o,u). Since god is un-nameable, the Hebrews assigned the consonants YHWH as label for their god. By adding vowels (modern alphabet) the name YaHWeH, and YeHoWaH (Jehovah) was arrived at.
Yahweh is the spelling of God's name (in the Roman alphabet) accepted by most non-Jewish scholars. Jehovah is considered incorrect by philologists.

Answer
The name Yahweh appears to be a finite causative verb from the Northwest Semitiv root hwy, which means 'to be, to come into being' which would mean that the divine name would mean 'He causes to be, or exist,' i.e. 'He creates.' Apparently Amorite personal names after 2000 BC lend support to this Haupt-Albright view, 'demonstrating that the employment of the causative stem yahweh was in vogue in the liguistc background of early Hebrew.'

Source: Ungers Bible Dictionary p1375.


Answer:

The oldest spelling of the name in history for Yahweh is IEUE.
Which is still pronounce Yahweha

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_Yahweh_mean#ixzz1JSQFKV2M

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:40 PM
Are you saying God is not real?

yes

HopingInJah
04-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Answer
Yahweh - Yahweh is the Hebrew God worshiped exclusively when the Hebrews became monotheists, c. 1000 BCE. This is the God in the Hebrew Bible (what Christians call the Old Testament). The Hebrews believe that if they place their trust in Yahweh, then they will be provided for. The name "Yahweh" is often rendered "Jehovah."

Answer
The Hebrew alphabet has no vowels (a,e,i,o,u). Since god is un-nameable, the Hebrews assigned the consonants YHWH as label for their god. By adding vowels (modern alphabet) the name YaHWeH, and YeHoWaH (Jehovah) was arrived at.
Yahweh is the spelling of God's name (in the Roman alphabet) accepted by most non-Jewish scholars. Jehovah is considered incorrect by philologists.

Answer
The name Yahweh appears to be a finite causative verb from the Northwest Semitiv root hwy, which means 'to be, to come into being' which would mean that the divine name would mean 'He causes to be, or exist,' i.e. 'He creates.' Apparently Amorite personal names after 2000 BC lend support to this Haupt-Albright view, 'demonstrating that the employment of the causative stem yahweh was in vogue in the liguistc background of early Hebrew.'

Source: Ungers Bible Dictionary p1375.


Answer:

The oldest spelling of the name in history for Yahweh is IEUE.
Which is still pronounce Yahweha

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_Yahweh_mean#ixzz1JSQFKV2M



Yes. Also in many archelogical finds, "Jehovah" has been found to be one of the most well known forms used thru out history.




HopingInJehovah

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:44 PM
yes

You have some proof that I can see? Thanks brah.

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:46 PM
You have some proof that I can see? Thanks brah.

Nope

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:53 PM
Nope

You seem rather unsure.

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 06:54 PM
You seem rather unsure.

read the sig

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 06:55 PM
You have some proof that I can see? Thanks brah.

You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof falls on you.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 06:56 PM
Men have been changing god to fit their beliefs since they invented him. That's one of the benefits of an ambiguous factious character, you can make it into anything you need.

That's not surprising, given that men are fallible and full of passion and corrupt desires. That's why men need to turn to the Infallible and perfect Being: the Manifestation of God, Who reveals the Will and Word of God on earth.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 06:58 PM
You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof falls on you.

And no liability on your part?

IronRooster2
04-13-2011, 06:59 PM
The domain he originally reigned over is pretty ambiguous. Psalms are some of the earliest books in a bible, so his original super powers might be gleamed from there. He may have been a god of war, but more likely was the god of storms. Lots of references to Him (like one of his earlier inspirations, Zeus) zapping the hell out of things.

Zeus was pretty buff compared to his buddies, so it's no surprise that when they culled down the pokemon some he'd be the archetype to come on top. I bet he could squat 1200lbs.

Now, his stature is kind of like High Schools each having their own mascot, and the High School that subjugates the rest remove all the other idols.

Obviously you can't take one example of something out of the book and say that proves anything. [There are a ton of contradictions] (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html) in the bible, worse than a politician, and that is to be expected of a collection of works from a bunch of random anons. The themes may be biased, as there is more scripture that probably belongs in the mythology that is omitted.

But if you want to take it literally - there were other gods. Yahweh killed them. Now you can get with the program or pick another myth.

Remember when Buddhism was a philosophy and not a religion? Nerds are right, stuff does get crappier when it becomes popular after it's old old old worn out and tired to anyone paying attention. I wish they'd make new episodes of The Simpsons...

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:11 PM
And no liability on your part?

You can't prove a negative.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 07:19 PM
You can't prove a negative.

Who told you that brah?

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:20 PM
Who told you that brah?

It's just one of those common sense things.

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 07:38 PM
Who told you that brah?

There's a pink unicorn ruling the universe.

Try to prove that it's not.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 07:41 PM
It's just one of those common sense things.

you cannot prove a negative is a negative so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true?
Seems plausible?

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:45 PM
you cannot prove a negative is a negative so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true?
Seems plausible?

no.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 07:47 PM
There's a pink unicorn ruling the universe.

Try to prove that it's not.

Here's the proof: a pink unicorn is a part of the universe, since it's material; therefore something that is subject to the laws of the universe cannot be the ruler of it. Clearly, a material thing cannot rule the universe. Therefore, everything that is not God is easily rejected.

Proof that God, rather, is the Ruler: He is immaterial, and not subject to the rules and limitations which are imposed on His creation.

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 07:47 PM
no.

Why not?

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:48 PM
Why not?

because you can't prove a negative.

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:51 PM
personal opinion based of your theology.

try again

MinisterOfLust
04-13-2011, 07:54 PM
because you can't prove a negative.

You know this is nonsense thinking.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 07:57 PM
try again

Can't disprove it?

:cool:

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 07:59 PM
Here's the proof: a pink unicorn is a part of the universe, since it's material; therefore something that is subject to the laws of the universe cannot be the ruler of it. Clearly, a material thing cannot rule the universe. Therefore, everything that is not God is easily rejected.

Proof that God, rather, is the Ruler: He is immaterial, and not subject to the rules and limitations which are imposed on His creation.

Perhaps this pink unicorn, although material, has divine powers that allow it to rule the universe?

How do you know that something has to be outside the universe in order to rule it?

How does a god hear prayers and become so involved with a universe that he isn't part of?

Also, most other gods that have been conceived by humanity also lived beyond reality in some spiritual realm. Yet you postulate that they're fake and yours isn't. Got any proof they don't exist?

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 07:59 PM
You know this is nonsense thinking.

It's not, you can't prove a negative.


Can't disprove it?

:cool:

:D

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 08:10 PM
Perhaps this pink unicorn, although material, has divine powers that allow it to rule the universe?

By virtue of the fact that it's material, it's already limited. To play along, if it had divine powers, like you suggest, then you're referring to another source from which is derives its powers. Divine is from God. Thus, it clearly cannot be the ruler of the universe, because it would not be the primary source of the divine power.



How do you know that something has to be outside the universe in order to rule it?

If it is physically in the universe and thus material, then it's subject to material laws. Something which is itself ruled and governed cannot be the universal Ruler or Governor.



How does a god hear prayers and become so involved with a reality that he isn't part of?

His independence doesn't mean He cannot be involved with His creation spiritually. Indeed He is involved in the affairs of men. Not being material makes this possible, in fact. Material is limited, whereas immaterial or spiritual is limitless—not being bound by the rules which govern the physical realm.



Also, most other gods that have been conceived by humanity also lived beyond reality. Yet you postulate that they're fake and yours isn't. Got any proof they don't exist?

If there was more than 1 god, then that would demonstrate a non-Omniscience—if you will—of God, rather than His Omniscience; and He is the All-Powerful. Then you might as well have 10,000 gods—in that case having gods would be meaningless.

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 08:16 PM
By virtue of the fact that it's material, it's already limited. To play along, if it had divine powers, like you suggest, then you're referring to another source from which is derives its powers. Divine is from God. Thus, it clearly cannot be the ruler of the universe, because it would not be the primary source of the divine power.

Jesus...



If it is physically in the universe and thus material, then it's subject to material laws. Something which is itself ruled and governed cannot be the universal Ruler or Governor.

This is purely speculation on your part, you have absolutely no way of verifying this. According to the bible, jesus lived as a material being in the material world and was able to defy the laws governing the universe.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 08:20 PM
This is purely speculation on your part, you have absolutely no way of verifying this. According to the bible, jesus lived as a material being in the material world and was able to defy the laws governing the universe.

Yes, because He got His powers from God. Bahá'ís believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God (http://bahaikipedia.org/Manifestation_of_god)—not God incarnate. God cannot incarnate His Essence.

Bahá'u'lláh indicates:


Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-20.html.utf8?query=incarnate&action=highlight#gr1

Harbinger
04-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Yes, because He got His powers from God. Bahá'ís believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God not God incarnate. God cannot incarnate His Essence.


Yes, because Unicorn got His powers from Unicorn God. atheist's believe that Unicorn was a Manifestation of Unicorn God not Unicorn God incarnate. Unicorn God cannot incarnate His Essence.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 08:30 PM
Yes, because Unicorn got His powers from Unicorn God. atheist's believe that Unicorn was a Manifestation of Unicorn God not Unicorn God incarnate. Unicorn God cannot incarnate His Essence.

Again, we will restate that unicorn god would not be all-powerful due to the fact that it's a unicorn (i.e., material thing in the material universe).

The Manifestations derive their powers from an immaterial Source, not a material one.

BobisMighty
04-13-2011, 08:48 PM
good grief. talk about mental gymnastics.

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 08:55 PM
By virtue of the fact that it's material, it's already limited. To play along, if it had divine powers, like you suggest, then you're referring to another source from which is derives its powers. Divine is from God. Thus, it clearly cannot be the ruler of the universe, because it would not be the primary source of the divine power.

This is all according to your own understanding and definitions of "god," "divine," "powers," and "spiritual."

The unicorn is the ruler. If he wants in, he gets in dammit!



If it is physically in the universe and thus material, then it's subject to material laws. Something which is itself ruled and governed cannot be the universal Ruler or Governor.

Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are all in the universe. God can come to Earth (although I believe The Bible says that if any man sees his face, they will die), Jesus was very material (fully man, fully God), and the Holy Spirit floats/hovers around and occasionally goes into Christians when they feel like having a seizure while speaking in tongues. I can't see why something that rules the universe would be incapable of entering it. I guess my description of the pink unicorn's ability was just poor... perhaps it is an omnipotent pink unicorn..

Regardless, my pink unicorn doesn't have to be outside the universe because it can do whatever it wants!



If there was more than 1 god, then that would demonstrate a non-Omniscience—if you will—of God, rather than His Omniscience; and He is the All-Powerful. Then you might as well have 10,000 gods—in that case having gods would be meaningless.

No, I meant how would you disprove the claim that that 1 god isn't the Bahi god. An atheist attempting to disprove god is essentially doing nothing since there isn't anything to disprove. Big claims require big evidence.

IronRooster2
04-13-2011, 08:56 PM
There's a pink unicorn ruling the universe.

Hey hey hey now, I find that highly offensive. Being a pink unicorn is not remarkable and would make it an object unworthy of worship. It's an invisible pink unicorn - two properties that can not exist together, but somehow do. It kicks reason to the curb and makes the impossible possible:

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them." - Book of Eley, 1994



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn.svg/220px-Invisible_Pink_Unicorn.svg.png

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 09:08 PM
This is all according to your own understanding and definitions of "god," "divine," "powers," and "spiritual."

The unicorn is the ruler. If he wants in, he gets in dammit!

Spiritual is referring to outside this material world. If you're stuck in this material world, and you're therefore subject to its laws, then you cannot be the all-powerful ruler of the universe. Just basic logic.

It's like the Mona Lisa saying it's the painter of all other paintings or something; it can't be, since it's a painting itself.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 09:15 PM
Being itself a material thing and thus part of, and subject of, the laws of the universe, would make it an object unworthy of worship because of its powerlessness.

Fixed.

:)

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 09:17 PM
So...

apparently pink's a favorite color among some of us?

:p :D

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 09:19 PM
good grief. talk about mental gymnastics.

It's just logic, not gymnastics. Why worship something that is itself ruled by the laws of the universe? If it's ruled, it therefore can't be a ruler. One who is not ruled is the ruler.

wings_unhinged
04-13-2011, 09:24 PM
Spiritual is referring to outside this material world. If you're stuck in this material world, and you're therefore subject to its laws, then you cannot be the all-powerful ruler of the universe. Just basic logic.

It's like the Mona Lisa saying it's the painter of all other paintings or something; it can't be, since it's a painting itself.

I don't know how logic applies to the supernatural. I mean, doesn't it being supernatural (or spiritual) in the first place make it capable of defying that sort of thing?

What if we took out the pink unicorn (which doesn't seem to fit the criteria for you) and put in an actual deity like Allah? You can't prove that the god of Islam doesn't exist. Which was the original point. You're not the one making the claim, therefore you have no obligation to present evidence for the lack of Allah.

The Mona Lisa is a painting. A physical object. The pink unicorn is a mystical being that rules.

Bahai.Lifter
04-13-2011, 09:29 PM
What if we took out the pink unicorn (which doesn't seem to fit the criteria for you) and put in an actual deity like Allah? You can't prove that the god of Islam doesn't exist.

I believe in the God of Islam, because He is the same God of all the great religions. Again, all the Manifestations of God (e.g., Krishna, Buddha, Abraham, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá'u'lláh) all were sent by the same God: because He is One, not two, or three, or four.



The Mona Lisa is a painting. A physical object. The pink unicorn is a mystical being that rules.

If you're saying it's a unicorn, then by definition it's material. Something that can be described, e.g., shape, color, etc., is material; therefore it is part of the physical world and not above it (i.e., immaterial). The painting example was valid, because in this case you're saying something that is material and subject to the same (material) constraints as other objects is nevertheless somehow an all-powerful ruler—that's contradictory.

IronRooster2
04-13-2011, 10:15 PM
Buddha
Was a man who told folks they should follow a centered path, not allow your life to be ruled by the excitement of new cat food which will soon become old cat food, etc. Not eating animal flesh was a part of this ideal, but monks being beggars had to eat meat to not starve to death.

I like this idea that Dagon, Belial, Baal, Cthulhu, Artemis etc are all avatars of this godhead of yours. Is it like he's playing a real time strategy game against himself, or is it just to feel less lonely?

The universe was created to in turn create porn. Ye, we know it pleases Him mightily, from the largest whale and star to the smallest bacterium, He delights in wonder of it all.

pac8x8
04-13-2011, 11:44 PM
I believe in the God of Islam, because He is the same God of all the great religions. Again, all the Manifestations of God (e.g., Krishna, Buddha, Abraham, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá'u'lláh) all were sent by the same God: because He is One, not two, or three, or four.

Wrong! the god of islam is an evil deity that demoted Jesus Christ to a mere prophet & only son of Mary... in other words, antichrist.




If you're saying it's a unicorn, then by definition it's material. Something that can be described, e.g., shape, color, etc., is material; therefore it is part of the physical world and not above it (i.e., immaterial). The painting example was valid, because in this case you're saying something that is material and subject to the same (material) constraints as other objects is nevertheless somehow an all-powerful ruler—that's contradictory.

The other day you mentioned that the Bible doesn't lie - you contradicted yourself then!

The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the Son of God!

Again, you cannot have it both ways, your beliefs are massively distorted.

Harbinger
04-14-2011, 05:11 AM
It's just logic, not gymnastics. Why worship something that is itself ruled by the laws of the universe? If it's ruled, it therefore can't be a ruler. One who is not ruled is the ruler.
Have you ever seen Pink Unicorn? No you haven't, you've only seen representations of Pink Unicorn. Pink Unicorn God cannot materialize itself because he is immaterial. This is all common sense BL. Pink Unicorn God sends his manifestions to us to spread His loving Pinkyness.

cross-trainer
04-14-2011, 05:29 AM
Which is it? (srs)


does Yahweh ever claim to be the "only" God

Yahweh=God the Father=Jesus Christ
Its very simple.

Yahweh was originally the God of the Jews, but transformed himself into Jesus and is now the God of everything.
Yes, he is the ONLY God!
All other Gods are fake.

Godfrd824
04-14-2011, 05:58 AM
Yahweh=God the Father=Jesus Christ
Its very simple.

Yahweh was originally the God of the Jews, but transformed himself into Jesus and is now the God of everything.
Yes, he is the ONLY God!
All other Gods are fake.

Can you actually prove this though?

cross-trainer
04-14-2011, 06:02 AM
Can you actually prove this though?

I dont need to prove it, I have faith.
With faith, proof is not needed.

Godfrd824
04-14-2011, 06:03 AM
I dont need to prove it, I have faith.
With faith, proof is not needed.

Strong BS, It'd be nice if I could take you to court with this, sue you for stealing my magical soul powers, then as my proof I'd say, "I dont need to prove it, I have faith.
With faith, proof is not needed."

cross-trainer
04-14-2011, 06:32 AM
Strong BS, It'd be nice if I could take you to court with this, sue you for stealing my magical soul powers, then as my proof I'd say, "I dont need to prove it, I have faith.
With faith, proof is not needed."

You will be "taking it to court" someday.
You will stand trial in the presence of the all-mighty and your lack of faith will convict you to punishment.
Woe to ye of no faith!

Harbinger
04-14-2011, 06:47 AM
you will be "taking it to court" someday.
You will stand trial in the presence of the all-mighty and your lack of faith will convict you to punishment.
Woe to ye of no faith!
lol

Godfrd824
04-14-2011, 09:28 AM
You will be "taking it to court" someday.
You will stand trial in the presence of the all-mighty and your lack of faith will convict you to punishment.
Woe to ye of no faith!

I'm saying, me and God were talking yesterday, I recommended you for 200 years of janitorial duties, since you talk so much shyt, you'll be cleaning it up, you truly believe you can even begin to comprehend a God, you're a fool, and we will not have mercy on your soul.

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 10:44 AM
Wrong! the god of islam is an evil deity that demoted Jesus Christ to a mere prophet & only son of Mary... in other words, antichrist.

I think the fact that God cannot incarnate His Essence is supported by scriptures.



The other day you mentioned that the Bible doesn't lie - you contradicted yourself then!

The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the Son of God!

Again, you cannot have it both ways, your beliefs are massively distorted.

Bahá'ís don't deny that Jesus is the Son of God. And yes, the Bible doesn't lie. Indeed the only thing at variance is the interpretations that fallible men assign to the Word of God.

Harbinger
04-14-2011, 11:13 AM
I think the fact that God cannot incarnate His Essence is supported by scriptures.

Genesis 3:8

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 11:30 AM
Genesis 3:8

John 4:24

Harbinger
04-14-2011, 11:37 AM
John 4:24
The OT clearly states that god walked through the garden of edan looking for Adan and that Adam hid from him because he didn't want god to see him.

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 11:44 AM
The OT clearly states that god walked through the garden of edan looking for Adan and that Adam hid from him because he didn't want god to see him.

This should help my friend.

"Question.—What is the truth of the story of Adam, and His eating of the fruit of the tree?"

Answer>> http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-30.html

pac8x8
04-14-2011, 08:47 PM
I think the fact that God cannot incarnate His Essence is supported by scriptures.

huh? God can do what he wants and it just so happens to be so-much supported by The Scriptures, here's just a tiny few examples:

Hebrews 1:1–3 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

John 5:19–24 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of call the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


Bahá'ís don't deny that Jesus is the Son of God. And yes, the Bible doesn't lie. Indeed the only thing at variance is the interpretations that fallible men assign to the Word of God.

Yet islam DOES NOT believe that 'Jesus is Son of God' or that He was crucified and rose from the dead.

— so you're cherry pickin' from all the world's beliefs to make one hella big lie.
..completely disregarding that the same Scriptures 'that do not lie' warned of false prophets, i.e., muhammed!


so to reiterate what you said earlier in the thread:


I believe in the God of Islam, because He is the same God of all the great religions. Again, all the Manifestations of God (e.g., Krishna, Buddha, Abraham, Zoroaster, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá'u'lláh) all were sent by the same God: because He is One, not two, or three, or four.

..just doesn't hold much weight for your faith (try zero) when you're all over the place from the very start!

wings_unhinged
04-14-2011, 09:32 PM
God repeatedly comes to Earth.

- He walked through Eden
- He wrestled with Jacob
- He allowed Moses to see the back of his head

That's just off the top of my head.

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 09:48 PM
God repeatedly comes to Earth.

- He walked through Eden
- He wrestled with Jacob
- He allowed Moses to see the back of his head

That's just off the top of my head.


If you take those stories literally, yeah. Not if you don't interpret them literally.

But you can say God appears on Earth, because He does in the sense of His Will and Word and His divine attributes being revealed through the Person of His Manifestation. The Manifestations are the most perfect Beings that have appeared on Earth. They are like perfectly polished Mirrors reflecting all the divine virtues and perfections of God in this world.

halberstram
04-14-2011, 09:56 PM
If you take those stories literally, yeah. Not if you don't interpret them literally.

But you can say God appears on Earth, because He does in the sense of His Will and Word and His divine attributes being revealed through the Person of His Manifestation. The Manifestations are the most perfect Beings that have appeared on Earth. They are like perfectly polished Mirrors reflecting all the divine virtues and perfections of God in this world.

Jesus Christ, how can a grown man such as yourself believe in such infantile nonsense?

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 10:00 PM
Jesus Christ, how can a grown man such as yourself believe in such infantile nonsense?

Why do you think it's nonsense?

halberstram
04-14-2011, 10:06 PM
Why do you think it's nonsense?

You consider yourself to be an intelligent, rational person right? So why do you abandon those principles when it comes to religion?

A person who is truly smart would ask 'Is there evidence of this happening?' or 'how can I be sure this is accurate' or 'what evidence suggests this cannot be real' or 'why do I believe in God, I am not a child anymore.'

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 10:27 PM
You consider yourself to be an intelligent, rational person right? So why do you abandon those principles when it comes to religion?

A person who is truly smart would ask 'Is there evidence of this happening?' or 'how can I be sure this is accurate' or 'what evidence suggests this cannot be real' or 'why do I believe in God, I am not a child anymore.'

There are plenty of intelligent and rational people who believe in God. I asked all those questions when I was investigating the Bahá'í Faith (www.bahai.us), the only religion with the principle of "independent investigation of truth":

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-3-2-17.html

That's a pretty rational teaching.

halberstram
04-14-2011, 10:32 PM
There are plenty of intelligent and rational people who believe in God. I asked all those questions when I was investigating the Bahá'í Faith (www.bahai.us), the only religion with the principle of "independent investigation of truth":

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-3-2-17.html

That's a pretty rational teaching.

I looked at this site and there isn't a shred of evidence for God. All of it is anecdotal, just like the Quran, Bible, Torah, etc..

Since you seem to have found a lot of evidence, would you care to present it the rest of us?

Bahai.Lifter
04-14-2011, 10:34 PM
I looked at this site and there isn't a shred of evidence for God. All of it is anecdotal, just like the Quran, Bible, Torah, etc..

Have you studied the Bahá'í Scriptures (http://reference.bahai.org/en/) by any chance? I think you would find that helpful if you took the time to do it, if you wanted to.

halberstram
04-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Have you studied the Bahá'í Scriptures (http://reference.bahai.org/en/) by any chance? I think you would find that helpful if you took the time to do it, if you wanted to.

Let me ask you a simple question: who wrote those scriptures?

kebABS
04-14-2011, 11:39 PM
LOL @ people too stupid to realise that Allah means God in arabic. It is not the name of a Muslim God.

MinisterOfLust
04-15-2011, 01:35 AM
LOL @ people too stupid to realise that Allah means God in arabic. It is not the name of a Muslim God.

There are a lot of other gods that people worship brah, that's why God revealed his name to distinguish himself from the other gods. And he also says beware of the false prophets.

Scoundrel
04-15-2011, 07:03 AM
It's just a designation, like mom or dad. I beleive he said "I am that I am"

Ya, its just the aramaic way of saying God, both pertain to same thing.

It was Jesus who said 'before Abraham was, I am'. Moses and burning bush God said 'I AM who I AM...'I AM has sent me to you'...then jesus in revelations says I am the alpha, omega, beginning and end. These are some of the scriptures that persuade Christians into believing jesus was creator, and the God present in the OT. NOBODY has seen the father...so who did Adam and eve walk with in the garden? Who did Joshua comee acoss? Etc...could go on quite a bit.

BobisMighty
04-15-2011, 07:08 AM
LOL @ people too stupid to realise that Allah means God in arabic. It is not the name of a Muslim God.

Yes, but to be fair Allah was the supreme god of the Meccans, who had sons and daughters. This was before Islam though. It's similar to the story of the Israelites in that sense. A people who worshiped multiple gods then transitioning to monotheism.

Scoundrel
04-15-2011, 07:21 AM
The OT clearly states that god walked through the garden of edan looking for Adan and that Adam hid from him because he didn't want god to see him.

+1

Now who was it?

Also, Joshua came across God on a path (Joshua 5:13-15). Pretty safe to conclude it was God because A). Angels refuse worship, like with John(revelation 19:10, 22:8,9)....Luke 4:8. And B) he told Joshua to take off his shoes, as it was holy ground. Just like moses and the burning bush, it was in the presence of God. Other instances such as this.

HopingInJah
04-15-2011, 08:18 AM
Ya, its just the aramaic way of saying God, both pertain to same thing.

It was Jesus who said 'before Abraham was, I am'. Moses and burning bush God said 'I AM who I AM...'I AM has sent me to you'...then jesus in revelations says I am the alpha, omega, beginning and end. These are some of the scriptures that persuade Christians into believing jesus was creator, and the God present in the OT. NOBODY has seen the father...so who did Adam and eve walk with in the garden? Who did Joshua comee acoss? Etc...could go on quite a bit.


Yes. Good post!!



HopingInJehovah