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Dosquito
03-07-2011, 01:00 PM
The biggest political ideology fail ever? I wasn't aware it existed utnil I saw someone's facebook today...:facepalm:

Kumquatv1
03-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Sounds as big a fail as the authoritarian "libertarians" that infest these forums.

Queequeg
03-07-2011, 01:06 PM
how does libertarian socialism differ from communism?

Dosquito
03-07-2011, 01:07 PM
I could be wrong, but I think that "libertarian socialists" believe that people should voluntarily surrender their free will for the greater good, or some other unbelievably retarded belief

ZenBowman
03-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Yeah, its pretty dumb, almost as big a fail as libertarian capitalism.

Dosquito
03-07-2011, 02:18 PM
classical liberalism (basically a less extreme libertarianism) ftw. anyone who hasn't read Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" needs to

Mtguy8787
03-07-2011, 03:09 PM
its an oxymoron. Anyone who can't tell that is a moron

Spetsnazos
03-07-2011, 03:11 PM
libertarianism in general is a huge joke. Talk about undercover authoritarians....

Mtguy8787
03-07-2011, 03:12 PM
libertarianism in general is a huge joke. Talk about undercover authoritarians....

Better than being a hypocrite

Spetsnazos
03-07-2011, 03:18 PM
Better than being a hypocrite

whats that even suppose to mean?

Dosquito
03-07-2011, 03:45 PM
libertarianism in general is a huge joke. Talk about undercover authoritarians....

lol wtf do you even mean by this? maybe the Libertarian party (capital L) is full of ****, but that doesnt invalidate libertarianism at all. brb, being chastised for believing in the inherent freedom instilled by creation

righteousreason
03-07-2011, 03:50 PM
The biggest political ideology fail ever? I wasn't aware it existed utnil I saw someone's facebook today...:facepalm:

Gotta hand it to them... that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while, lmao

PhenoTerminate
03-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Libertarianism is a philosophy that is almost like anarchism but asks for a small government for certain tasks, more accountable than most "developed" nations' governments are today.

If you are free to do anything, why would you not be free to organize a business as a cooperative? Hint for those thinking you can do this today: taxes, taxes, taxes, regulations ad infinitum. Most of these taxes and regulations are fully supported by multinational corporations. Corporations would not exist with so many special rules and even personhood to shield the individuals running the business in a place that is even halfway between what USA has now and Libertarian society.

Stizzel
03-07-2011, 04:29 PM
The biggest political ideology fail ever? I wasn't aware it existed utnil I saw someone's facebook today...:facepalm:

What exactly don't you understand about it?

Bkcmart
03-07-2011, 04:33 PM
Anyone who subscribes to these extremely particular labels has way too much time on their hands. What an arbitrary way of defining yourself.

GrokTheCube
03-07-2011, 04:53 PM
How is it any different from utopian communism?

farquezy
03-07-2011, 04:57 PM
da fawk is going on itt, i dont even...

drjjg
03-07-2011, 06:21 PM
For myself, I don't mind having "socialized" health care, infrastructure/programs and well as some government regulation of economic activity(especially monetary policy). The government can do this without violating individual liberty(especially if the whole idea of corporate personhood is abolished). It isnt as far fetched as it sounds.

Insane Clown
03-07-2011, 06:23 PM
lol wtf do you even mean by this? maybe the Libertarian party (capital L) is full of ****, but that doesnt invalidate libertarianism at all. brb, being chastised for believing in the inherent freedom instilled by creation Because the 'inherent freedom' instilled by creation doesn't work once you add more than 1 person to your society. Any libertarian, free market society will either implode upon itself or develop into an authoritarian society within a handful of generations.

It's a fantastic philosophical viewpoint that doesn't work in the real world.


How is it any different from utopian communism? It really isn't and they both fail when taken beyond the talking point stage.

drjjg
03-07-2011, 06:24 PM
How is it any different from utopian communism?

You can have property ownership in a libertarian-socialistic society, whereas a utopian communist one would not have that.

Insane Clown
03-07-2011, 06:30 PM
For myself, I don't mind having "socialized" health care, infrastructure/programs and well as some government regulation of economic activity(especially monetary policy). The government can do this without violating individual liberty(especially if the whole idea of corporate personhood is abolished). It isnt as far fetched as it sounds. The thing is, the best solution is a mix of some free market with some socialized institutions.

The idea that a libertarian, free market society is inherently better only applies if you think profit is the ideal end point of any and all social interactions, which obviously it's not.

In certain situations, such as when the practicality of paying for certain aspects in completely free market environment isn't feasible (such as infrastructure, emergency services, etc.) or when the end-result of such services can be contradictory to maximizing profit (such as health care), it becomes more desirable to socialize such services whereas many other industries operate just as well (or better) in a more or less 'free' market environment.

Neither pure socialism/communism or pure capitalism/libertarianism creates the ideal end result of all industries, so any political ideology that aspires to only to one side or the other is bound to be a failure.

Kumquatv1
03-07-2011, 08:09 PM
The thing is, the best solution is a mix of some free market with some socialized institutions.

The idea that a libertarian, free market society is inherently better only applies if you think profit is the ideal end point of any and all social interactions, which obviously it's not.

In certain situations, such as when the practicality of paying for certain aspects in completely free market environment isn't feasible (such as infrastructure, emergency services, etc.) or when the end-result of such services can be contradictory to maximizing profit (such as health care), it becomes more desirable to socialize such services whereas many other industries operate just as well (or better) in a more or less 'free' market environment.

Neither pure socialism/communism or pure capitalism/libertarianism creates the ideal end result of all industries, so any political ideology that aspires to only to one side or the other is bound to be a failure.

And this sums it all up very nicely.

JustAnotherUser
03-07-2011, 10:15 PM
classical liberalism (basically a less extreme libertarianism) ftw. anyone who hasn't read Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" needs to

ya, except for the part where the classical liberals believed in complete property and contract rights which just led to the rich exploiting the poor. Hell, they only believed in those things to protect their economic self interests.

Queequeg
03-08-2011, 02:08 AM
How is it any different from utopian communism?

I asked this, still not been answered.

StoliFun
03-08-2011, 02:25 AM
And this sums it all up very nicely.

I agree, fellow Texan.

Penile_Dementia
03-08-2011, 02:29 AM
Can someone enlighten me on the validity of wiki's history of libertarianism?


The term libertarian in a metaphysical or philosophical sense was first used by late-Enlightenment free-thinkers to refer to those who believed in free will, as opposed to determinism.[20] The first recorded use was in 1789 by William Belsham in a discussion of free will and in opposition to "necessitarian" (or determinist) views.[21][22]

The use of the word "libertarian" to describe a set of political positions can be tracked to the French cognate, libertaire, which was coined in 1857 by French anarchist communist Joseph Déjacque who used the term to distinguish his libertarian communist approach from the mutualism advocated by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.[23][24][25] Hence libertarian has been used as a synonym for left-wing anarchism or libertarian socialism since the 1890s.[26]

StoliFun
03-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Can someone enlighten me on the validity of wiki's history of libertarianism?

Just read the six articles it references.

Pump that iron!
03-08-2011, 02:53 AM
Can someone enlighten me on the validity of wiki's history of libertarianism?

Well, libertarianism in the philosophical free will debate is not to be confused with the libertarianism of political philosophy so that distinction is sound. Hume wrote about liberty with respect to the will so I know that at least in THAT period, it is accurate but pre enlightenment seems a bit far back with respect to the free will debate usage of libertarianism.

BobisMighty
03-08-2011, 05:51 AM
http://static.letsbuyit.com/filer/images/uk/products/original/147/11/escape-from-freedom-14711476.jpeg

pretty good read.

PhenoTerminate
03-09-2011, 05:03 PM
And this sums it all up very nicely.
So some of you in this thread agree that:
How it is now is "the best we have" and "if you can't imagine an entire system by yourself or with a small group of people then shutup and use the current system". Even though the current system is a centuries old constantly changing system that is rapidly becoming outdated in modern times faster than new ideas can be added to it due to high technological advances in every area of our life.

So you are all encouraging apathy or crushing our own bones under the system, trying anything new is "scary" and "misguided" and is either "not really new" or "will result in catastrophe".



Please elaborate on your position if this summary is wrong, thanks guys.

leafs43
09-12-2011, 01:36 PM
Libertarian socialism is a term coined by Noam Chomsky and is a walking contradiction.

StoliFun
09-12-2011, 01:44 PM
Libertarian socialism is a term coined by Noam Chomsky and is a walking contradiction.

Why'd you add 'walking' ?

leafs43
09-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Why'd you add 'walking' ?

Green Day sunk into my subconscious it seems.

farquezy
09-12-2011, 03:32 PM
Libertarian socialism is a term coined by Noam Chomsky and is a walking contradiction.Good to know we have your reptilian expertize which determines what is acceptable use of words.
With your credentials, no one can question the validity of your claim.

leafs43
09-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Good to know we have your reptilian expertize which determines what is acceptable use of words.
With your credentials, no one can question the validity of your claim.

I am an expert on reptilians. They hide in plain site and fund groups like the IMF and Rothchilds. Even more amazing is that they plant seeds in human brains and anal rape them at night.

I think they may have gotten you double though. The more they anal rape someone, the more that person blocks them from their memory.

I know cuz I'm a reptilian, duh

Apeus
09-12-2011, 03:55 PM
libertarianism in general is a huge joke. Talk about undercover authoritarians....


Do you make any posts here anymore besides trolling any thread with "Ron Paul" or "libertarianism" in the title? And besides creating your own troll threads on the two?

Stizzel
09-12-2011, 10:01 PM
Libertarian socialism is a term coined by Noam Chomsky and is a walking contradiction.

No, it's not. You can voluntarily agree to live in socialism. You're thinking of Fabian socialism, that would be a contradiction.

leafs43
09-12-2011, 11:21 PM
No, it's not. You can voluntarily agree to live in socialism. You're thinking of Fabian socialism, that would be a contradiction.

As soon as you volunteer to live in socialism, its very hard to un-volunteer because any standing government will not allow you to leave.

Stizzel
09-13-2011, 06:21 PM
As soon as you volunteer to live in socialism, its very hard to un-volunteer because any standing government will not allow you to leave.

Who says you need a government?

This is a good point about what I've been saying about statism. If you want to be a republican, democrat, liberal, conservative, socialist, communist, whatever, you can do it all contractually. You don't need a government. All a government does is require you to have the political clout to take the government over to get what you want.

And that means imposing your will on the unwilling, which leads to strife.

All entirely unnecessary.

farquezy
09-13-2011, 06:43 PM
As soon as you volunteer to live in socialism, its very hard to un-volunteer because any standing government will not allow you to leave.

where do you get this **** from?

brb every European country forces its people to stay inside the country.

leafs43
09-13-2011, 07:11 PM
where do you get this **** from?

brb every European country forces its people to stay inside the country.


lol.



maybe you should read:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97245,00.html



cliffs:
-Even the US taxes the sh!t out of you if you relieve yourself of it's government and its citizenship.

jewelscoff
09-13-2011, 08:56 PM
Libertarian socialism is a term coined by Noam Chomsky and is a walking contradiction.
in this video, chomsky addresses that seemingly contradiction. before anyone jumps on me, this is not my personal opinion. i dont care one way or another. this is just chomsky explaining libertarian socialism and addressing why it may seem like a contradiction.

RxPUvQZ3rcQ

Stizzel
09-14-2011, 11:48 PM
in this video, chomsky addresses that seemingly contradiction. before anyone jumps on me, this is not my personal opinion. i dont care one way or another. this is just chomsky explaining libertarian socialism and addressing why it may seem like a contradiction.

RxPUvQZ3rcQ

sounds like chomsky is equating libertarians with federalists of the late 1700's and the neocon's of today. Which is essentially how it is today. didn't listen to it all so please let me know if i got it right. sorry too tired to wait for him to get to the point.