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rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 12:56 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time


Cliffs-
Kobe has a FG% of 31.3% in the last 24 seconds of the 4th quarter, when his team is tied or down by 1 or 2 points
That ranks him 25th for players since 1996, with minimum of 30 attempts
Carmelo number 1 with 47.7%
Kobe has almost as many airballs as made shots in these situations


Its a long read, but kind of interesting, and certainly surprising. Like everyone else, if given the choice of any active player, I would pick Kobe to take a potential game-winner... maybe not anymore though?

Thoughts?

Note- this is NOT a Kobe bashing thread, just an interesting article that I saw

Rudey
01-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Was just about to post this, good read.

Also not a Kobe basher, but it shows you how off base most people's opinions are.

Srs Thread
01-28-2011, 01:44 PM
this also includes a lot of full court/ half court shots i'm sure...

i wouldnt put much thought to it, he definitely passes the eye test. Of "make-able" shots, he seems to make 75% of them.

EDIT: saw Vince Carter and Jason Terry so low, very surprising. Those guys seem clutch as hell watching them too

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 01:46 PM
pretty much the article of the decade.

the truth shall set you free from a life of phaggotry as long as youre willing to embrace it.

tmc.
01-28-2011, 01:48 PM
this also includes a lot of full court/ half court shots i'm sure...


no it doesn't

NBA players don't take last second shots to boost their FG%, they wait til time expires then throw one up

carlos71786
01-28-2011, 01:51 PM
you also have to take into consideration that kobe has taken double the shots than most of the people on that list

tmc.
01-28-2011, 01:53 PM
you also have to take into consideration that kobe has taken double the shots than most of the people on that list

and 5x as many airballs

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 01:54 PM
you also have to take into consideration that kobe has taken double the shots than most of the people on that list

Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that he shoots just over 30% in "clutch" spots, despite being known as the best clutch guy out there....

XZV
01-28-2011, 01:56 PM
here's a easy test of those stats end of forth quarter down by one 2 seconds on the clock who do you pass to Kobe or shawn marion?

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 01:57 PM
article confirmed what real fans already knew.

what lebron learned first hand.

game on the line... melo gets the ball.

lol @ kobe.

"I sometimes think Kobe is so addicted to being in control that he would rather shoot the ball when guarded, or even double-teamed, than dish it to an open teammate." - Phil Jackson

jimbogr
01-28-2011, 01:57 PM
ESPN late on this

I already posted this topic a while back with a different source, Kobe nuthuggers ignored it and insulted Lebron

Jess40
01-28-2011, 01:57 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/jess40404040/103tok7.gif

SuperAlphaForce
01-28-2011, 01:57 PM
here's a easy test of those stats end of forth quarter down by one 2 seconds on the clock who do you pass to Kobe or shawn marion?

melo

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 01:59 PM
ESPN late on this

I already posted this topic a while back with a different source, Kobe nuthuggers ignored it and insulted Lebron

x2. remember it clearly

all we got were pictures of kobe holding gasol's finals mvp. run from the truth phaggots.

GPx
01-28-2011, 02:07 PM
Kobe haters unite

guy is straight garbage! I'm with Daewoo, I JUST WANNA BE MAD.

Jess40
01-28-2011, 02:10 PM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/jess40404040/untitledvcv.jpg

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Kobe haters unite

guy is straight garbage! I'm with Daewoo, I JUST WANNA BE MAD.

the head phaggot appears

learn from me instead of being mad ive forgotten more basketball than youve ever known.

oh right, bandwagoners dont wanna learn. they just wanna temporarily fill a void in their lives. best wishes <3

GPx
01-28-2011, 02:14 PM
the head phaggot appears

learn from me instead of being mad ive forgotten more basketball than youve ever known.

oh right, bandwagoners dont wanna learn. they just wanna temporarily fill a void in their lives. best wishes <3

lol do you get on here on this message board when when you realize your life sucks and just try to release all of your frustration?

Cause god damn bro, you're mad as fuk and in full hate mode 24/7. 3/4ths of your posts also call someone a "phaggot". Angry kid is always angry.

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 02:16 PM
lol do you get on here on this message when you have a bad day and just try to release all of your frustration?

Cause god damn bro, you're mad as fuk and in full hate mode 24/7.

ITP full hate mode 24/7 = posting truthful statements supported by fact that I disagree with.

:(

GPx
01-28-2011, 02:18 PM
ITP full hate mode 24/7 = posting truthful statements supported by fact that I disagree with.

:(

brb using the word phaggot in likely 75% of your posts.

mad mad mad

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 02:19 PM
ITT GPx has no response to the truth, so let's try to hijack thread.

carry on OP.

namean
01-28-2011, 02:19 PM
not this $hit again

GPx
01-28-2011, 02:20 PM
ITT GPx has no response to the truth, so let's try to hijack thread.

carry on OP.

ITT: Daewoo no response to why he's always hating and furious.

You think I give a sh*t about these stats bro? Like they effect me personally? lol you're living quite a strong life seeing it as you clearly do.

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 02:22 PM
ITT: Daewoo no response to why he's always hating and furious.

You think I give a sh*t about these stats bro? Like they effect me personally? lol you're living quite a strong life seeing it as you clearly do.

"I sometimes think Kobe is so addicted to being in control that he would rather shoot the ball when guarded, or even double-teamed, than dish it to an open teammate." - Phil Jackson

GPx
01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
"I sometimes think Kobe is so addicted to being in control that he would rather shoot the ball when guarded, or even double-teamed, than dish it to an open teammate." - Phil Jackson

lol strong ability to completely ignore my post.

brb posting a quote from 2004 and still thinking I give a sh*t.

jimbogr
01-28-2011, 02:50 PM
The funny thing about this topic is not a single Kobe nutthugger in here is actually from California.

LOL

TheAntihero
01-28-2011, 02:53 PM
rebuttal to abbott/truehoop

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

doesn't prove that kobe is clutch or anything, just says abbott's article is flawed and biased

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 03:05 PM
rebuttal to abbott/truehoop

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

doesn't prove that kobe is clutch or anything, just says abbott's article is flawed and biased

Interesting read. Obviously biased as well, but does bring up some interesting points.

tmc.
01-28-2011, 03:18 PM
rebuttal to abbott/truehoop

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2011/1/28/1961684/how-to-be-statistically-biased-henry-abbott

doesn't prove that kobe is clutch or anything, just says abbott's article is flawed and biased

Silver Screen and Roll -
A Blog devoted to Lakers News, Commentary, and Analysis



You're a moron.

carlos71786
01-28-2011, 03:48 PM
Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that he shoots just over 30% in "clutch" spots, despite being known as the best clutch guy out there....

it completely changes it, actually

1/1 = 100/100 percentage-wise, but is obviously not the same

inb4 nuthugger
inb4 blah blah blah

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 04:21 PM
it completely changes it, actually

1/1 = 100/100 percentage-wise, but is obviously not the same

inb4 nuthugger
inb4 blah blah blah

That's why there's a minimum of 30 attempts to make the list.... and Kobe is 25th on the list %-wise

Rhetorician
01-28-2011, 04:23 PM
"Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular season and playoff games since 1996-1997, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information."

Guess what happens when you change it to "Trailing by one, two, three, or tied in the final 24...."

Oh, and who has the most amount of clutch wins on that list? Hint: The number is 36...

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 04:26 PM
"Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular season and playoff games since 1996-1997, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information."

Guess what happens when you change it to "Trailing by one, two, three, or tied in the final 24...."

His percentage goes up?

I really don't know. Do you have the numbers? Would be interesting to see

Rhetorician
01-28-2011, 04:29 PM
His percentage goes up?

I really don't know. Do you have the numbers? Would be interesting to see

Guess what else happens when you factor in how many times Kobe and other players on that list are fouled in that time frame. Kobe can draw fouls from the most reluctant players....

Propulsion
01-28-2011, 04:36 PM
"Trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular season and playoff games since 1996-1997, with a minimum of 30 shots. From Alok Pattani of ESPN Stats & Information."

Guess what happens when you change it to "Trailing by one, two, three, or tied in the final 24...."

Agreed. Final 24 secs does not have enough validity to be considered clutch ... final 2 minutes does. Researcher was too lazy to look up his stats when Lakers were up by 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 in final 2 mins. Clutch also includes whether or not a slim lead is protected in the final 2 minutes. In addition - defense and FT% are crucial also.

The whole premise for checking a statistic for one offensive possession (24 seconds) is baseless. I don't see this as any different from an offensive possession in the third quarter.

Final 2 minutes accounts for 5 possessions (for two teams combined). Therefore, on average, the team of the player in question has the ball for 2.5 possessions.

carlos71786
01-28-2011, 04:41 PM
That's why there's a minimum of 30 attempts to make the list.... and Kobe is 25th on the list %-wise

it doesn't matter. like i said, kobe has taken double the shots than most players on that list. do you think they're percentages would be the same had they taken the same number of shots that kobe has? i don't.

and it's stupid to try to define "clutch" because everyone has a different definition of it. i can look at the numbers of who has the most game-winners among active players, and kobe would be on the top of the list. does that prove he's the most "clutch"? it's easy to take stats and twist them to make a player look good/bad

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 04:45 PM
brb kobe's 11/16 during the last 2 years...let's just take his stats from when he had no one on his team and would throw up any type of shot



brb...who else would i want to take the last shot besides kobe if my life depended on it...uhh NO1 lol

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 04:50 PM
brb kobe's 11/16 during the last 2 years...let's just take his stats from when he had no one on his team and would throw up any type of shot



brb...who else would i want to take the last shot besides kobe if my life depended on it...uhh NO1 lol

First, he's 11/22 the last 2 years. Second, the stats go back to 96... pretty sure he had a few decent players with him, like, uhhh, Shaq?


I'm not saying Kobe isn't clutch or anything like that, I just found the article interesting. As a Celtics fan, Kobe is the absolute last person I want to have the ball with a chance to beat the Celtics

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 04:52 PM
First, he's 11/22 the last 2 years. Second, the stats go back to 96... pretty sure he had a few decent players with him, like, uhhh, Shaq?


I'm not saying Kobe isn't clutch or anything like that, I just found the article interesting. As a Celtics fan, Kobe is the absolute last person I want to have the ball with a chance to beat the Celtics

yeah no sh*t...Henry Abbott (the guy who wrote this article) is a certified Kobe hater


on the radio he said he'd rather pick Kevin Martin over Melo and Kobe (this is when he didnt gather his stats), so clearly he doesn't know his sh*t

JBDW
01-28-2011, 05:14 PM
Silver Screen and Roll -
A Blog devoted to Lakers News, Commentary, and Analysis



You're a moron.

Actually, Darius who runs that blogs does a pretty good job of remaining objective. Not every person who runs a team blog is a raging homer like Simmons.

Anyway, Zach Lowe also chips in with a decent look: http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/01/28/wait-you-mean-kobe-isnt-mr-clutch/

Can't argue with the percentages IMO, but I wonder what MJ's was. Also (and this is just IMO), clutch is more than the last second shot, it's also everything that's done in the last quarter when the game is close. I wonder if there are any stats on that.

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 05:22 PM
yeah no sh*t...Henry Abbott (the guy who wrote this article) is a certified Kobe hater


on the radio he said he'd rather pick Kevin Martin over Melo and Kobe (this is when he didnt gather his stats), so clearly he doesn't know his sh*t

So that makes the stats invalid? Just cus he doesn't like the guy?

Add in Kobes last 2 seasons-
47/137=34.3%

dan213
01-28-2011, 05:39 PM
I can't believe Shawn Marion has 30 attempts....

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 05:42 PM
So that makes the stats invalid? Just cus he doesn't like the guy?

Add in Kobes last 2 seasons-
47/137=34.3%

He's 11/22 in the last 2 seasons



brb...manipulating stats to make a guy look bad

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 05:44 PM
He's 11/22 in the last 2 seasons



brb...manipulating stats to make a guy look bad

And he's 47/137 for his career....

Brb, manipulating stats to make a guy look good


I like how you deleted that thread btw... yes, Kobe had the most points in clutch time. He also had the 3rd worst FG% out of what, 15 guys? 38.5%?

xriddx
01-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Although I think Kobe is declining due to age/injuries... I think he's still the guy I'd want to make the last shot...especially in the finals. Him and a few other guys in the league are the only proven winners despite stats, fg% etc. There are things that the stats don't take into consideration. Like him getting double/triple teamed and doing things to make other players numbers go up and don't end up on the stats. Also Kobe has to create shots a lot of times out of nothing. Often he's given the ball in situations where most guy's % of hitting is way lower than kobe's. Most of the guys on the list probably are taking open shots. Kobe is not going to be open because he's just that good. That being said there's prob times when he should pass(when he's doubled) but often in the past few years the lakers haven't had any other options

You can't just look at the stats.

Another issue is that often the last shot of the game is a 3 pointer. Kobe's prob the best shooter on the laker. Especially when he's taking the stats from so far back. You don't want to pass to pau to make the 3. It's either Kobe or fish and has been for the past several years.

When the Lakers win again everyone's mouths will be zipped.

GPx
01-28-2011, 06:20 PM
The funny thing about this topic is not a single Kobe nutthugger in here is actually from California.

LOL

And coincidentally you didn't join this message board till after the big 3 signing.

SRSmiscerIZsrs
01-28-2011, 07:03 PM
AkuLmlmlkMg

you can take those stats and shove them up ur ass....shots like these last two arent factored into those phaggy stats but are clutch as phuck. Someone show me a guy that hits the shots kobe does. Other nba players dont even attempt shots that difficult.

stop lying to yourself if you say you wouldnt want 24 taking the final shot for your team.

brb back to back to back for the second time

u mad or just mirin his skills?

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 07:20 PM
AkuLmlmlkMg

you can take those stats and shove them up ur ass....shots like these last two arent factored into those phaggy stats but are clutch as phuck. Someone show me a guy that hits the shots kobe does. Other nba players dont even attempt shots that difficult.

stop lying to yourself if you say you wouldnt want 24 taking the final shot for your team.

brb back to back to back for the second time

u mad or just mirin his skills?

I have Ray Allen on my team, and I would much rather have him taking the last shot than Kobe. Just sayin

SRSmiscerIZsrs
01-28-2011, 07:23 PM
I have Ray Allen on my team, and I would much rather have him taking the last shot than Kobe. Just sayin

brb 0-19 in the finals for a long stretch. Jus sayin

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 07:27 PM
I have Ray Allen on my team, and I would much rather have him taking the last shot than Kobe. Just sayin

brb not being able to create your own shot


Kobe is clutch as fuk and everyone knows if their life depended on it, Kobe would be the #2 option of all time right behind MJ

SRSmiscerIZsrs
01-28-2011, 07:30 PM
brb not being able to create your own shot


Kobe is clutch as fuk and everyone knows if their life depended on it, Kobe would be the #2 option of all time right behind MJ

good point..

brb rip hamilton can run off 30 illegal celtic back screens and look like a god.

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 07:30 PM
brb 0-19 in the finals for a long stretch. Jus sayin

Because Kobe always shoots such a high percentage lol



Ray is one of, if not the greatest shooter in NBA history... can't go wrong with that

StreetSharks
01-28-2011, 07:32 PM
brb kobe's 11/16 during the last 2 years...let's just take his stats from when he had no one on his team and would throw up any type of shot



brb...who else would i want to take the last shot besides kobe if my life depended on it...uhh NO1 lol

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RaOrchOImw8/S28WPxCTH9I/AAAAAAAAdIY/vdiMVQ9PGmI/s400/Robert+Horry+1.jpg

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 07:32 PM
brb not being able to create your own shot


Kobe is clutch as fuk and everyone knows if their life depended on it, Kobe would be the #2 option of all time right behind MJ

Who cares if he doesn't create his own shot? He shoots a higher percentage than Kobe does.

"Creating his own shot" is part of the reason Kobe has airballed almost as many of the "clutch shots" (as defined by the article in the OP) as he's made....

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Who cares if he doesn't create his own shot? He shoots a higher percentage than Kobe does.

"Creating his own shot" is part of the reason Kobe has airballed almost as many of the "clutch shots" (as defined by the article in the OP) as he's made....

lol...if Kobe got open shots like Ray does, he'd have a 90% FG..unfortunately, when you're the only one on your team that can shoot that well, teams will know how to prepare for you...and even then Kobe's the deadliest clutch player


why is this even an argument?

SweatAndTears
01-28-2011, 07:59 PM
and 5x as many airballs
You mad the Rockets are the 10th seed in the West and have been irrelevant the past couple of years? Yeah, you mad.

tmc.
01-28-2011, 08:45 PM
You mad the Rockets are the 10th seed in the West and have been irrelevant the past couple of years? Yeah, you mad.

bandwagon Laker fans with 2010 join dates

this is new

Hoop_Dreams
01-28-2011, 08:49 PM
Who cares if he doesn't create his own shot? He shoots a higher percentage than Kobe does.

"Creating his own shot" is part of the reason Kobe has airballed almost as many of the "clutch shots" (as defined by the article in the OP) as he's made....

You're retarded.

When it's the last shot of the game, it's usually an iso type situation where you HAVE to create your own shot.

Most players wouldn't even be able to get a decent attempt off.

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 08:51 PM
You're retarded.

When it's the last shot of the game, it's usually an iso type situation where you HAVE to create your own shot.

Most players wouldn't even be able to get a decent attempt off.

This...if it weren't for Rondo, Ray Allen wouldn't be as clutch


And Paul Pierce is a much better clutch scorer than Ray Allen

Hoop_Dreams
01-28-2011, 08:53 PM
This...if it weren't for Rondo, Ray Allen wouldn't be as clutch


And Paul Pierce is a much better clutch scorer than Ray Allen

Truth (no pun intended).

What kind of phaggot would say they'd rather have Ray Allen taking the last shot instead of Pierce? Strong knowledge of your team.

rebelprettyboy
01-28-2011, 09:26 PM
That has to be the dumbest read ever. Obv Kobe shots more. And if you watch basketball you know he will shot it with 6 left from half court and not give a **** about stats unlike a lot of other players who would just pass it off or hold the ball to not **** their stats.

lol Kobe is the most clutch guy to ever play the sport.

Oh yeah and the fuking GOAT

Daewoo_Lanos
01-28-2011, 09:31 PM
That has to be the dumbest read ever. Obv Kobe shots more. And if you watch basketball you know he will shot it with 6 left from half court and not give a **** about stats unlike a lot of other players who would just pass it off or hold the ball to not **** their stats.

lol Kobe is the most clutch guy to ever play the sport.

Oh yeah and the fuking GOAT

in after credibility destroyed

StreetSharks
01-28-2011, 10:07 PM
very unclutch tonight

carlos71786
01-28-2011, 10:08 PM
very unclutch tonight

lulz, was waiting for this

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 10:20 PM
Truth (no pun intended).

What kind of phaggot would say they'd rather have Ray Allen taking the last shot instead of Pierce? Strong knowledge of your team.

You're ****ing stupid.


I've seen Pierce miss PLENTY of potential game winners, because he waits too long to drive/make his move. He gets the ball with 10+ seconds, and waits til 3-4 seconds left to make his move. I watch almost every Cs game, and I have seen this so much that I can call it before it happens, and it makes me sick. Every ****ing time, that's what Pierce does


Ray is 10X the shooter that Pierce is in the clutch

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 10:22 PM
You're retarded.

When it's the last shot of the game, it's usually an iso type situation where you HAVE to create your own shot.

Most players wouldn't even be able to get a decent attempt off.

That's because most coaches can't draw up a decent play. There is no reason for a guy to have to "create his own shot" with a proper screen or 2. Not my fault Phil Jackson sucks at drawing up plays

Hoop_Dreams
01-28-2011, 10:30 PM
You're ****ing stupid.


I've seen Pierce miss PLENTY of potential game winners, because he waits too long to drive/make his move. He gets the ball with 10+ seconds, and waits til 3-4 seconds left to make his move. I watch almost every Cs game, and I have seen this so much that I can call it before it happens, and it makes me sick. Every ****ing time, that's what Pierce does


Ray is 10X the shooter that Pierce is in the clutch

Tell that to any legit Celtics fan and they'll laugh in your face.

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 10:35 PM
You're ****ing stupid.


I've seen Pierce miss PLENTY of potential game winners, because he waits too long to drive/make his move. He gets the ball with 10+ seconds, and waits til 3-4 seconds left to make his move. I watch almost every Cs game, and I have seen this so much that I can call it before it happens, and it makes me sick. Every ****ing time, that's what Pierce does


Ray is 10X the shooter that Pierce is in the clutch

opinion is no longer valid

behind kobe and melo, pierce will knock down a clutch jumper

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 10:48 PM
Tell that to any legit Celtics fan and they'll laugh in your face.

You're right, I'm a fake Celtics fan lol.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Ray- 38.5% (15/39), including 8 3pointers (most among active)
Pierce- 34.4% (11/32)


You're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Except that Ray has a better percentage in the clutch, as defined by that site.


Dumbass

Hoop_Dreams
01-28-2011, 11:02 PM
You're right, I'm a fake Celtics fan lol.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Ray- 38.5% (15/39), including 8 3pointers (most among active)
Pierce- 34.4% (11/32)


You're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Except that Ray has a better percentage in the clutch, as defined by that site.


Dumbass
*chuckles*

You just don't get it, do ya kid?

Brb posting a link that disregards many variables and doesn't even include the last two and half seasons and thinking I'm right.

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 11:09 PM
You're right, I'm a fake Celtics fan lol.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Ray- 38.5% (15/39), including 8 3pointers (most among active)
Pierce- 34.4% (11/32)


You're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Except that Ray has a better percentage in the clutch, as defined by that site.


Dumbass

herp derp stats

pls go.

even ray allen would tell you that pierce is a better clutch shooter than him

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 11:14 PM
*chuckles*

You just don't get it, do ya kid?

Brb posting a link that disregards many variables and doesn't even include the last two and half seasons and thinking I'm right.

Have you watched a lot of Celtics games? That's a serious question. I've seen Pierce miss SO many game-winning shots its not even funny. I know he's the go-to guy obviously, but I've seen him miss so many that I don't have as much faith in him anymore

SwaggerJack
01-28-2011, 11:16 PM
Have you watched a lot of Celtics games? That's a serious question. I've seen Pierce miss SO many game-winning shots its not even funny. I know he's the go-to guy obviously, but I've seen him miss so many that I don't have as much faith in him any more

So you're telling me if your life depends on it, you're letting Ray Allen get the ball and make a shot for himself rather than Pierce making a shot for himself? Ray would be nothing without those illegal screens/Rondo's passing ability

rsnnh12
01-28-2011, 11:16 PM
herp derp stats

pls go.

even ray allen would tell you that pierce is a better clutch shooter than him

Stats for potential game-tying/winning shots.... what more do you want?


Pierce's problem is that he milks the clock and doesn't leave himself time to get a good shot off. Ray doesn't pull that sht

jimbogr
01-28-2011, 11:36 PM
Kobe demonstrating how clutch he is tonight


01:53 Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
01:13 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (37 PTS)
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (38 PTS)
00:20.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:08.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:02.1 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed

rsnnh12
01-29-2011, 12:12 AM
So you're telling me if your life depends on it, you're letting Ray Allen get the ball and make a shot for himself rather than Pierce making a shot for himself? Ray would be nothing without those illegal screens/Rondo's passing ability

If they have to make a shot for themselves? Pierce. He's more physical. But that's what's great about having a real coach... he can design plays where a player doesn't need to work as hard once they have the ball... the tougher part is getting open. Ray is hands down a better shooter than Pierce. And LOL at illegal screens. The Celts have quite a few moving picks, I'll be honest, but so does every other team. Just like every team has guys who travel, who flop, etc etc etc

SwaggerJack
01-29-2011, 09:24 AM
Kobe demonstrating how clutch he is tonight


01:53 Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
01:13 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (37 PTS)
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (38 PTS)
00:20.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:08.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:02.1 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed

agree that this didn't help his case

Rhetorician
01-29-2011, 12:26 PM
Ray Allen was so clutch last night against the Suns.

tmc.
01-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Kobe demonstrating how clutch he is tonight


01:53 Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
01:13 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (37 PTS)
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (38 PTS)
00:20.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:08.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:02.1 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed

lmfao

rsnnh12
01-29-2011, 01:45 PM
Ray Allen was so clutch last night against the Suns.

Almost as much as Kobe against the Kings

GPx
01-29-2011, 02:14 PM
lmfao


Kobe demonstrating how clutch he is tonight


01:53 Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
01:13 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (37 PTS)
00:32.3 Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (38 PTS)
00:20.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:08.9 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
00:02.1 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed

Two idiots that didn't watch the game.

lol makes sense

jpierce7
01-29-2011, 02:15 PM
Thoughts?


so i am not a kobe fan, but i dont bash athletes unless they are completely deserving. overall kobe is a good player, but i would give him the ball at the end of the game so he could drive in draw defenders and then kick it out or get fouled. personally i dont like him or paul pierce at the end of the game, but pierce shoots it better because he has someone kick it out to him rather than always creating on his own.

GPx
01-29-2011, 02:18 PM
I'm not sure why Ray Allen's name is even in here. The guys is probably one of the most unclutch players in the league. (srs)

alleyezonme3
01-29-2011, 03:09 PM
Kobe and the lakers couldn't even beat the Kings, the dude is so clutch.

SwaggerJack
01-29-2011, 03:12 PM
Kobe and the lakers couldn't even beat the Kings, the dude is so clutch.

brb 1 game

rsnnh12
01-29-2011, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure why Ray Allen's name is even in here. The guys is probably one of the most unclutch players in the league. (srs)

You need to watch more Celtics games than brah. Ray hits tons of big shots.

Rhetorician
01-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Almost as much as Kobe against the Kings

How much of a point deficit did LA overcome last night to come within 5? More than what the Celtics lost by...

tmc.
01-29-2011, 03:36 PM
I'm not sure why Ray Allen's name is even in here. The guys is probably one of the most unclutch players in the league. (srs)

disregard statistical evidence

become bandwagon biased laker fan from illinois

GPx
01-29-2011, 03:39 PM
disregard statistical evidence

become bandwagon biased laker fan from illinois

brb not knowing the circumstance behind the shots and acting like I know sh*t.

h4te crew

GPx
01-29-2011, 03:41 PM
Anyways, Kobe scored 17 points last week against the Warriors in the last 5:30 to win the game.

According to this guy, that's not clutch because they didn't come in the last 24 seconds. Strong flawed system.

Swagson
01-29-2011, 03:42 PM
Screw stats lets watch a fuking game, aite?

SwaggerJack
01-29-2011, 03:45 PM
People ITT don't watch basketball


Ray Allen is clutch off catch and shoots...but not nearly as clutch as Paul Pierce/Kobe/Melo with full coverage


BRB trying to create his own shot....result: Airball

tmc.
01-29-2011, 03:54 PM
brb not knowing the circumstance behind the shots and acting like I know sh*t.

h4te crew

most of the shots Kobe takes are not good shots late in games, he forces up shots going away from the basket, in double teams, etc.

the approach of running a play in which you get a guy to take an open shot, which is what happens with Ray Allen, is much more intelligent (and thus more successful)

it is not normally a good thing when a guy can create his own shot because then he relies on that and has bad shot selection (ie Monta Ellis, which is why the W's are worse with him on the floor, or early career Paul Pierce as opposed to the now efficient and winning Pierce)

forcing up shots when you play in the triangle offense that can get people open looks is bad basketball

SwaggerJack
01-29-2011, 04:09 PM
most of the shots Kobe takes are not good shots late in games, he forces up shots going away from the basket, in double teams, etc.

the approach of running a play in which you get a guy to take an open shot, which is what happens with Ray Allen, is much more intelligent (and thus more successful)

it is not normally a good thing when a guy can create his own shot because then he relies on that and has bad shot selection (ie Monta Ellis, which is why the W's are worse with him on the floor, or early career Paul Pierce as opposed to the now efficient and winning Pierce)

forcing up shots when you play in the triangle offense that can get people open looks is bad basketball

brb players don't have ice in their veins like kobe does, therefore it is a better strategy to let kobe shoot than to let teammates shoot

GPx
01-29-2011, 05:06 PM
most of the shots Kobe takes are not good shots late in games, he forces up shots going away from the basket, in double teams, etc.

the approach of running a play in which you get a guy to take an open shot, which is what happens with Ray Allen, is much more intelligent (and thus more successful)

it is not normally a good thing when a guy can create his own shot because then he relies on that and has bad shot selection (ie Monta Ellis, which is why the W's are worse with him on the floor, or early career Paul Pierce as opposed to the now efficient and winning Pierce)

forcing up shots when you play in the triangle offense that can get people open looks is bad basketball

Sounds like you're describing the Kobe of old. Also, definitely wasn't the case yesterday. You also have to keep in mind that Kobe is the only guy in late that can create his own shot and Gasol is afraid of the moment.

This season that Lakers have not been involved in many close finish games...and even when they did Kobe didn't force shots. Hell sometimes I wish he did rather than give the ball up to say Artest in the corner.

SwaggerJack
01-29-2011, 05:17 PM
Sounds like you're describing the Kobe of old. Also, definitely wasn't the case yesterday. You also have to keep in mind that Kobe is the only guy in late that can create his own shot and Gasol is afraid of the moment.

This season that Lakers have not been involved in many close finish games...and even when they did Kobe didn't force shots. Hell sometimes I wish he did rather than give the ball up to say Artest in the corner.

this...artest has lost us a lotta close games...he got lucky last year with kobe's missed GW put bak

RickRoss
01-29-2011, 05:37 PM
kobe fans mantra: ignore stats, watch highlights

xriddx
02-01-2011, 02:13 PM
kobe fans mantra: ignore stats, watch highlights

here's a stat for you:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/ollieboy_photos/Kobe5rings.jpg

jimbogr
02-01-2011, 02:16 PM
this...artest has lost us a lotta close games...he got lucky last year with kobe's missed GW put bak

You phaggots are stupid.

Artest won you your last ring and you don't even trust him enough to take open shots?

gtfo bandwagon kobe fans

CaptainGorgeous
02-01-2011, 03:50 PM
wow strong sample sizes.


stupid article.

SRSmiscerIZsrs
02-01-2011, 03:56 PM
You phaggots are stupid.

Artest won you your last ring and you don't even trust him enough to take open shots?

gtfo bandwagon kobe fans

no we dont because hes a head case and hes shooting under 30% from 3. Thanks but no thanks phaggot. Id rather see Kobe shoot 50 times than see artest get 15 shots.

tmc.
02-01-2011, 04:40 PM
brb players don't have ice in their veins like kobe does, therefore it is a better strategy to let kobe shoot than to let teammates shoot

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6118/babbygotjacked.jpg

SwaggerJack
02-01-2011, 04:46 PM
You phaggots are stupid.

Artest won you your last ring and you don't even trust him enough to take open shots?

gtfo bandwagon kobe fans

brb...lakers would've won in 5 games if we still had ariza and not artest

1 good game from artest doesn't make him a valuable player as kobe haters would like credit him, nor does 1 bad game from kobe preventing him from being the finals MVP as the the kobe haters would like discredit him.

SRSmiscerIZsrs
02-01-2011, 06:51 PM
brb...lakers would've won in 5 games if we still had ariza and not artest

1 good game from artest doesn't make him a valuable player as kobe haters would like credit him, nor does 1 bad game from kobe preventing him from being the finals MVP as the the kobe haters would like discredit him.

im on spread, remind me sometime to give you the measly reps