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View Full Version : People Need to Get a Clue about Derrick Rose



DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 01:41 AM
this guy is not only the best point guard in the league (by a wide margin), he's a top 5 best player in the league overall

you look at his numbers compared to say Kobe Bryant??? same FG and FT %, same scoring and much stronger 3 pt shooting %. On top of that, his rebounding and assist totals (13 a game) are significantly stronger than Bryant's 10 game


oh and that's not even the best part. D Rose has turned himself into the best defender in the league at his position


an article on NY times on D Rose's defense (add http to the beginning cause I can't post links yet)


offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense




More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed) –- all excellent defenders -– have been trumped statistically this year, and by no slim margin. Rose has each of those players handily beat, and boasts a shockingly comprehensive defensive profile.

Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession




cliffs:
*D Rose has turned himself into the best defender in the league at his postiion
*D Rose is scoring career highs, passing for career high assists, and shooting 38% from 3 pt range (also career high)



at this point, the only players better than him in the league are Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Maybe Dirk. Amare pls go until you learn how to play defense


how can you not give a man the MVP award when he's damn near single handedly lead the bulls to the 5th best record in the league while the team's 2 best big men half missed half the season??

ibldcubbyblue
01-23-2011, 01:48 AM
DDCT.. smh, kid never learns

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 01:50 AM
OP is correct

i plugged in all the numbers into the formula and plotting the all the answers on a grid you can clearly make out the image of rose

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 01:55 AM
OP is correct

i plugged in all the numbers into the formula and plotting the all the answers on a grid you can clearly make out the image of rose


I lol hard @ celtics fans who wanna claim that Rondo is a better player than Rose


the only thing Rondo has is assists...and he plays on a fantastic team with a bunch of guys who drain shots all night long. Rose plays on a team where his best 2 big men have missed half the season and his SG shoots 38% from the field


Put Rondo on the bulls instead of Rose...and the bulls would be barely over .500 instead of contending for the #2 seed in the East

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 01:55 AM
Rose is the biggest chucker in the league he is number two in fg attempts per game and he is not a efficient scorer at all. He also goes one on one way to much not a PG Job

chill out bro

BUT have you seen his PPG AVG?!!! GOTTA BE TEH BEST PG!!!

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 01:58 AM
Rose is the biggest chucker in the league he is number two in fg attempts per game and he is not a efficient scorer at all. He also goes one on one way to much not a PG Job


1)he shoots 45% from the field, 82% from the FT line and 38% from 3 point range. Those are excellent numbers. That's despite the fact that referees are still on dat phaggy time hard when it comes to rose and don't call him getting fouled the same way they call fouls all day for Kobe and LBJ


2)how is he a chucker when his FG% is about the same as Kobe and better than say Russell Westbrook??


3)he has to shoot and score a ton, have you not noticed the injuries to the balls?? no boozer and/or no noah??


4)he does a great job of distributing the ball around whenever his teammates are draining shots. He takes over the game scoring wise when his teammates aren't draining shots. That's what a team leader does

FGCHENG
01-23-2011, 02:00 AM
derrick rose age: 22

kobe bryant age: 32

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:00 AM
I lol hard @ celtics fans who wanna claim that Rondo is a better player than Rose


the only thing Rondo has is assists...and he plays on a fantastic team with a bunch of guys who drain shots all night long. Rose plays on a team where his best 2 big men have missed half the season and his SG shoots 38% from the field


Put Rondo on the bulls instead of Rose...and the bulls would be barely over .500 instead of contending for the #2 seed in the East

i didnt mention rondo

wall plays on arguably the worst team in the league and has no help and averages more assists than Rose as a rookie so i dont see why you guys keep mentioning oh rose has no help blah blah.......truth is.......real point guards think pass first.........rose does not........idk why this gets rose fans so mad........hes a scorer not a distributor......again i ask........why does that make yall so mad?

i claim rose is not the best true PG in the league........if your team needs somebody to consistently get the whole team involved and pass the rock Rose is not your man

as an overall player tho i cant say any other player who plays PG is better than rose

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:04 AM
i didnt mention rondo

wall plays on arguably the worst team in the league and has no help and averages more assists than Rose as a rookie so i dont see why you guys keep mentioning oh rose has no help blah blah.......truth is.......real point guards think pass first.........rose does not........idk why this gets rose fans so mad........hes a scorer not a distributor......again i ask........why does that make yall so mad?

i claim rose is not the best true PG in the league........if your team needs somebody to consistently get the whole team involved and pass the rock Rose is not your man

as an overall player tho i cant say any other player who plays PG is better than rose


we're talking about the best overall player at the PG position, not really so much as to whose the best traditional point guard (who really gives a crap who averages the most assists?? give me the best possible player at the position)


1)Rose is the best scorer at PG
2)Rose is the best defender at PG
3)Rose is the most valuable player in the league

take him off the bulls and they are a .500 team. People need to start discussing this guy alongside Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dirk, etc... He is that good

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:06 AM
the best overall player at the PG position

i will agree with that. i cannot agree on the best defender **** tho



Ah he shoots 44 percent from the field and it is going down each game. He has way to many 9-25 nights he went 8 for 20 today he does not get to the line much and he is a chucker.


but he has to bro.....plays on the worst team in the league

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:08 AM
Ah he shoots 44 percent from the field and it is going down each game. He has way to many 9-25 nights he went 8 for 20 today he does not get to the line much and he is a chucker.

he doesn't get to the line cause of phaggot referees who don't blow the whistle


how is that is fault?? dude gets hit more than any player I have ever seen in the league for how few foul shots he gets


that's the main thing affecting his FG%. If the refs blew the whistle (like they always do for Lebron and Kobe), Rose would be shooting around 47-48% from the field

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:13 AM
Lol no he sucks at drawing contact even bulls fans know this


dude Ive seen plays where Rose will get hit by a guy on the shot, get the offensive rebound himself, get hit again and still somehow score



he's one of the most physical players at the league and averages less free throws per game than Kobe Bryant, whose basically a fadeaway jump shooter at this point in his career. That's ridiculous

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:21 AM
dude Ive seen plays where Rose will get hit by a guy on the shot, get the offensive rebound himself, get hit again and still somehow score



he's one of the most physical players at the league and averages less free throws per game than Kobe Bryant, whose basically a fadeaway jump shooter at this point in his career. That's ridiculous

thats why he aint a good passer

doods crazy creative and athletic and fast............its hard to find guys when you are hanging in the air 3 seconds doing a 360 spin while switching hands and double pumping a layup off the glass

he can score at any time.............if he focuses on setting up his teammates dood could average over 12 assists easy

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:24 AM
thats why he aint a good passer

doods crazy creative and athletic and fast............its hard to find guys when you are hanging in the air 3 seconds doing a 360 spin while switching hands and double pumping a layup off the glass

he can score at any time.............if he focuses on setting up his teammates dood could average over 12 assists easy


bulls just don't have enough offensive firepower right now for him to focus more on passing like that


he's gotta be the main scorer, that's in the best interest of the team


you will see his assist numbers go way up once boozer and noah are in the lineup consistently (and hopefully the bulls can get a sharp shooting SG in a trade to help the offense as well)

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:26 AM
bulls just don't have enough offensive firepower right now for him to focus more on passing like that


he's gotta be the main scorer, that's in the best interest of the team


you will see his assist numbers go way up once boozer and noah are in the lineup consistently (and hopefully the bulls can get a sharp shooting SG in a trade to help the offense as well)

again

please explain how Wall with much less help than Rose averages almost 2 more assists than rose does?

and hes been banged up all year

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:28 AM
again

please explain how Wall with much less help than Rose averages almost 2 more assists than rose does?

and hes been banged up all year

what's the wizards record?? what's the bulls record??


ya gotta do whatever it takes to win ballgames


I'd much rather have D Rose taking shots late in the game than passing the ball off to kurt thomas and taj gibson to take those game deciding shots

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:29 AM
what's the wizards record?? what's the bulls record??


ya gotta do whatever it takes to win ballgames


I'd much rather have D Rose taking shots late in the game than passing the ball off to kurt thomas and taj gibson to take those game deciding shots


dood you said rose doesnt have much help so assists numbers arent the best...i pointed out Wall

now its rose does whats needed to win games

cmon man

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:37 AM
dood you said rose doesnt have much help so assists numbers arent the best...i pointed out Wall

now its rose does whats needed to win games

cmon man


it's a combination of things


1)injuries to the 2 best big men on the team


2)him needing to take over games cause that's in the best interest of the team (again, much rather have him trying to make all the shots late in the game than pass it off to keith bogans and kurt thomas)


3)Rose himself will tell you that he's not a purebred traditional point guard. He's a hybrid SG/PG who can do everything that both positions require



I don't get the obsession with the Assist numbers. I don't think anybody makes a bigger difference to the quality of his team's play than Rose does. So who cares if he's not passing the ball off every opportunity he gets like Rondo does??



he's fairly efficient, he scores a ton, he plays great defense, he's a solid passer and many of his missed shots lead to easy offensive rebounding situations cause he attracts so much attention on the dribble penetration

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:39 AM
Rose has way better teammates than cp3 yet cp3 still averages more assist fail

we're talking about the best overall player at the position



I don't give a crap who averages more assists. Rose is a top 5 best player in the league

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:42 AM
Lmfao no maybe top 10 and that is a big maybe


notsureifsrs.jpg


whose better than him all around right now??


good passer
good shooter
fantastic scorer
fantastic defender
fantastic leader

what more can you ask out of a guy??


you realize the bulls are #1 in the league in defensive efficiency despite the fact that their best defensive player, Noah has missed so many games??

I have watched bulls games all year long and there is no point guard in the league who works as hard on the defensive end as Rose does

Negatron617
01-23-2011, 02:48 AM
so if wall were on a good team then he would be the best PG hands down since he has more assists already on one of the crappiest teams in the league and is taking 7 less shots per game than rose and rose scores less than 10ppg more than Wall

meaning that on a decent team Walls numbers would be better than Rose by far

people need to get a clue about Wall

im out

GPx
01-23-2011, 02:50 AM
This has got to be homicidal_misc.

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 02:50 AM
so if wall were on a good team then he would be the best PG hands down since he has more assists already on one of the crappiest teams in the league and is taking 7 less shots per game than rose and rose scores less than 10ppg more than Wall

people need to get a clue about Wall

im out

when most people are talking about the best PG, they're referring to the best player at the position



if you wanna call wall or rondo the best passer go ahead, but that really doesn't mean anything in the long run

(o)./^\.(o)
01-23-2011, 07:30 AM
i claim rose is not the best true PG in the league........if your team needs somebody to consistently get the whole team involved and pass the rock Rose is not your man

as an overall player tho i cant say any other player who plays PG is better than rose

I agree with this.

But I look at it in the way that if LBJ were to suddenly start playing PG for Miami, he wouldn't be the best "pure PG" in the league either, but i'll be damned if there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't trade their pg for him.

And no, I'm not saying Rose is as good as LBJ, I'm just saying they are the same style of player, Rose is like mini-LBJ. He only plays PG because of his size and speed.

And also, FYI, in HS Rose had game in the state championships where he only shot twice and had around 18 assists, so he isn't the selfish chucker by nature like people like to knock him for. He just knows when to turn it on.

t5soul
01-23-2011, 07:46 AM
Yeah common, would you rather have Rose keep dishing out the ball to Bogans going for layups and chucking wide open threes.

captain_marvel
01-23-2011, 07:51 AM
Chris Paul is the best pg in the league and has been for the past 4 years and i cannot even stand him.

You can always tell how uninformed/biased a sports "fan" is by how quick they are to jump on the nuts of a recent sports hot streak. Aka 75% of sports misc.

Yes rose is having a great season but paul williams rondo have been doin it for years now.

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 07:53 AM
Chris Paul is the best pg in the league and has been for the past 4 years and i cannot even stand him.

You can always tell how uninformed/biased a sports "fan" is by how quick they are to jump on the nuts of a recent sports hot streak. Aka 75% of sports misc.

Yes rose is having a great season but paul williams rondo have been doin it for years now.

chris paul age - 25
derrek rose age - 22



D Rose has potential to be a top 5 player in the league for years and years and years. You are fukkin nuts if you would take CP3 on your team over D Rose

(o)./^\.(o)
01-23-2011, 07:56 AM
Chris Paul is the best pg in the league and has been for the past 4 years and i cannot even stand him.

You can always tell how uninformed/biased a sports "fan" is by how quick they are to jump on the nuts of a recent sports hot streak. Aka 75% of sports misc.

Yes rose is having a great season but paul williams rondo have been doin it for years now.

lulz ok buddy, if you watched the NBA you would see Rose's progression each year and know that this isn't a streak.

but you can hang onto Paul's, Williams, and Rondo's nuts since you don't watch games and those are the names you know from sportscenter.

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 07:59 AM
lulz ok buddy, if you watched the NBA you would see Rose's progression each year and know that this isn't a streak.

but you can hang onto Paul's, Williams, and Rondo's nuts since you don't watch games and those are the names you know from sportscenter.


this


these phaggots don't realize how good D Rose will be once they get a good SG around him and Booze/Noah are in there more consistently



BRB scoring 25 PPG 8 Assists per game while being the best defender in the league at the position

captain_marvel
01-23-2011, 08:04 AM
Let me know when hes won some playoff series. Yes he is younger then those other guys and very well may end up better and more accomplished then them a few years down the line but how about you clet him prove it first before you take his nuts in your mouth?

You are putting him over guys that have had great proven playoff and championship runs: not just 1.5 inflated regular seasons.

Give him time and maybe he will be great , just take his nuts out until he actually proves something real.

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 08:06 AM
Let me know when hes won some playoff series. Yes he is younger then those other guys and very well may end up better and more accomplished then them a few years down the line but how about you clet him prove it first before you take his nuts in your mouth?

You are putting him over guys that have had great proven playoff and championship runs: not just 1.5 inflated regular seasons.

Give him time and maybe he will be great , just take his nuts out until he actually proves something real.


I think you are enraged that Rose is a top 5 player in the league right now bruh

(o)./^\.(o)
01-23-2011, 08:10 AM
Let me know when hes won some playoff series. Yes he is younger then those other guys and very well may end up better and more accomplished then them a few years down the line but how about you clet him prove it first before you take his nuts in your mouth?

You are putting him over guys that have had great proven playoff and championship runs: not just 1.5 inflated regular seasons.

Give him time and maybe he will be great , just take his nuts out until he actually proves something real.

no i'm going to keep his nuts right where they are. if you watched the playoffs you would know rose did EVERYTHING in his power to win those games, but you can't play 1 v 5 in the playoffs, and its hard for a 1st/2nd year player to do much when his coach can't draw up a play for sh!t and burns timeouts like he's building a campfire.

now they have a coach and a true second option, and they are third in the east without having been fully healthy yet. Rose has led a battered team to the 5th (or sixth?) best record in the league. when they are healthy and playing a low seeded team in the top heavy east they will easily make it to the second round, and possibly third. its hard to judge just how good this team is because we haven't seen it play for real yet.

yep, his nuts are fine right here.


































no homo

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 08:25 AM
thats why he aint a good passer


neverwatchedroseplay/10

JBDW
01-23-2011, 08:48 AM
Rose is overrated. He's a total baller, but overrated nonetheless.

To illustrate, using a Westbrook comparison (since I find Westbrook so similar to Rose):
Westbrook has 2 less FGA than Rose/game, but scores only 2pts less a game.
Slightly more rebounds.
Slightly more assists.
More steals.
Better TS%.
Slightly better PER.

Of course, this is all in context. Westbrook has KD on his team, so it's no surprise his assists are a little higher, and FGA lower. And Rose is missing practically half his team, yes no doubt. But if anything, this is allowing him to put up stats since he's the central focus of the offense. And the Bulls' excellent season is more down to Tom Thibodeau and Ron Adam's excellent defensive coaching, because Rose's individual defense certainly hasn't improved all that much (yes aware of Synergy stats. Point still stands.)

Again, Rose is a baller, but he's not yet at the level people seem to think he is. I mean, top 5? Come on ...

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 09:06 AM
Rose is overrated. He's a total baller, but overrated nonetheless.

To illustrate, using a Westbrook comparison (since I find Westbrook so similar to Rose):
Westbrook has 2 less FGA than Rose/game, but scores only 2pts less a game.
Slightly more rebounds.
Slightly more assists.
More steals.
Better TS%.
Slightly better PER.

Of course, this is all in context. Westbrook has KD on his team, so it's no surprise his assists are a little higher, and FGA lower. And Rose is missing practically half his team, yes no doubt. But if anything, this is allowing him to put up stats since he's the central focus of the offense. And the Bulls' excellent season is more down to Tom Thibodeau and Ron Adam's excellent defensive coaching, because Rose's individual defense certainly hasn't improved all that much (yes aware of Synergy stats. Point still stands.)

Again, Rose is a baller, but he's not yet at the level people seem to think he is. I mean, top 5? Come on ...

better FG%
better scorer
much stronger defender


rose>>>> all

(o)./^\.(o)
01-23-2011, 09:06 AM
Rose is overrated. He's a total baller, but overrated nonetheless.

To illustrate, using a Westbrook comparison (since I find Westbrook so similar to Rose):
Westbrook has 2 less FGA than Rose/game, but scores only 2pts less a game.
Slightly more rebounds.
Slightly more assists.
More steals.
Better TS%.
Slightly better PER.

Of course, this is all in context. Westbrook has KD on his team, so it's no surprise his assists are a little higher, and FGA lower. And Rose is missing practically half his team, yes no doubt. But if anything, this is allowing him to put up stats since he's the central focus of the offense. And the Bulls' excellent season is more down to Tom Thibodeau and Ron Adam's excellent defensive coaching, because Rose's individual defense certainly hasn't improved all that much (yes aware of Synergy stats. Point still stands.)

Again, Rose is a baller, but he's not yet at the level people seem to think he is. I mean, top 5? Come on ...

you don't think Westbrooks per is a little inflated playing alongside Durant? I would say so. per is such a misleading stat.

Rebounds-plays on a smaller team with less dominant rebounders, there's more to go around. Notice when Boozer and Noah were both out Rose was in double figure rebounds.

Assists-plays with one of the best pure scorers in the league, and only averages like .3 more assists. Rose does more with less.

Rose averaging 25 on 45% shooting (38% 3pt) Westbrook is averaging 23 on 44% shooting (24% from 3pt)

And yes, Rose's individual defense has improved DRAMATICALLY. Stats aside ( agree, defensive stats are stupid) just watching games this year compared to the previous two you can see a huge difference. Thibodeau has been putting him on the hot shooter to close out games, a defensive mastermind wouldn't do that if he didn't trust him on that end.

JBDW
01-23-2011, 09:17 AM
better FG%
better scorer
much stronger defender


rose>>>> all

FG% alone is a poor indicator of overall scoring efficiency.
Defense wise, I still wouldn't rate him over Westbrook, based on what I've seen from both.


you don't think Westbrooks per is a little inflated playing alongside Durant? I would say so. per is such a misleading stat.

Rebounds-plays on a smaller team with less dominant rebounders, there's more to go around. Notice when Boozer and Noah were both out Rose was in double figure rebounds.

Assists-plays with one of the best pure scorers in the league, and only averages like .3 more assists. Rose does more with less.

Rose averaging 25 on 45% shooting (38% 3pt) Westbrook is averaging 23 on 44% shooting (24% from 3pt)

PER: Arguable. You could also argue that his PER is deflated since Westbrook would become the #1 offensive option with Durant no longer on the team, which would probably translate to a rise in offensive production. I do agree that PER is misleading, but only when it's used by itself without supporting evidence from other statistics.

Rebounds: Fair point.

Assists: Which is why I noted that Rose's assists would probably improve once his teammates return. But honestly, if you watch Thunder games, you'll see that Westbrook's teammates are horrible at sinking shots, Durant aside. Also, Durant accounts for a significant amount of possession, including ones where he's the playmaker. Unlike Rose, who's the undisputed #1 ballhandler.

FG%: I usually consider EFG% or TS% a more accurate indicator of overall scoring efficiency, since it takes into account all the different ways to score and weights them accordingly. Westbrook may be a poorer pure shooter, but he more than compensates by having an excellent ability to get to the line and by being a superb FT shooter. Which is why his TS% is still higher.


And yes, Rose's individual defense has improved DRAMATICALLY. Stats aside ( agree, defensive stats are stupid) just watching games this year compared to the previous two you can see a huge difference. Thibodeau has been putting him on the hot shooter to close out games, a defensive mastermind wouldn't do that if he didn't trust him on that end.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that defensive stats are stupid, but I think that they don't give enough credit to defensive schemes. Watching Rose, I'm not impressed by his individual
defense, but I'm extremely impressed by the TEAM defense that the Bulls play. Thibodeau putting Rose on the hot shooter to close out games doesn't mean that Rose is a superb defender by any means; Ron Adams and Scott Brooks put Kevin Durant on Kobe during the playoffs last year, and KD is hardly considered to be a lockdown defender.

The Bulls have the advantage of two excellent defensive coaches. Westbrook's defense is overrated IMO and stems from a college rep more than NBA production, but I can't honestly say Rose is better than him or even a 'good' defender at this point in his career.

GetBigyo
01-23-2011, 09:20 AM
Wall>Rose.

DominantSpecies
01-23-2011, 09:33 AM
FG% alone is a poor indicator of overall scoring efficiency.
Defense wise, I still wouldn't rate him over Westbrook, based on what I've seen from both.



PER: Arguable. You could also argue that his PER is deflated since Westbrook would become the #1 offensive option with Durant no longer on the team, which would probably translate to a rise in offensive production. I do agree that PER is misleading, but only when it's used by itself without supporting evidence from other statistics.

Rebounds: Fair point.

Assists: Which is why I noted that Rose's assists would probably improve once his teammates return. But honestly, if you watch Thunder games, you'll see that Westbrook's teammates are horrible at sinking shots, Durant aside. Also, Durant accounts for a significant amount of possession, including ones where he's the playmaker. Unlike Rose, who's the undisputed #1 ballhandler.

FG%: I usually consider EFG% or TS% a more accurate indicator of overall scoring efficiency, since it takes into account all the different ways to score and weights them accordingly. Westbrook may be a poorer pure shooter, but he more than compensates by having an excellent ability to get to the line and by being a superb FT shooter. Which is why his TS% is still higher.



I wouldn't go so far as to say that defensive stats are stupid, but I think that they don't give enough credit to defensive schemes. Watching Rose, I'm not impressed by his individual
defense, but I'm extremely impressed by the TEAM defense that the Bulls play. Thibodeau putting Rose on the hot shooter to close out games doesn't mean that Rose is a superb defender by any means; Ron Adams and Scott Brooks put Kevin Durant on Kobe during the playoffs last year, and KD is hardly considered to be a lockdown defender.

The Bulls have the advantage of two excellent defensive coaches. Westbrook's defense is overrated IMO and stems from a college rep more than NBA production, but I can't honestly say Rose is better than him or even a 'good' defender at this point in his career.



you realize on isolation plays, D Rose is only giving up like .63 in terms of defensive efficiency?? which is phenomenal obviously


isolation plays don't have that much to do with team defense, that's just a guy 1 on 1 dominating another guy on the defensive end

Hardbody316
01-23-2011, 09:37 AM
Chris Paul is the best pg in the league and has been for the past 4 years and i cannot even stand him.

You can always tell how uninformed/biased a sports "fan" is by how quick they are to jump on the nuts of a recent sports hot streak. Aka 75% of sports misc.

Yes rose is having a great season but paul williams rondo have been doin it for years now.

LOL WHUT???

u obviously didnt see the celtics play him...he scored like 4 points..and 2 of those were free throws..

Devin00825
01-23-2011, 09:40 AM
Dude he is a great player dont get me wrong. However your wrong, he does not have 13 assists per game. Maybe your talking about rebounding and assists together.

Devin00825
01-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Wall>Rose.

Wall is nowhere near ready yet.

DA_MOSS
01-23-2011, 09:44 AM
LOL WHUT???

u obviously didnt see the celtics play him...he scored like 4 points..and 2 of those were free throws..

who?

Hardbody316
01-23-2011, 09:46 AM
who?

oops my bad for some reason i thought the post i quoted said deron was the best...it said chris paul..nevermind

JBDW
01-23-2011, 09:48 AM
you realize on isolation plays, D Rose is only giving up like .63 in terms of defensive efficiency?? which is phenomenal obviously

isolation plays don't have that much to do with team defense, that's just a guy 1 on 1 dominating another guy on the defensive end

I saw that, but I have a hard time matching that particular stat with what I see in games. I've had that experience with other players as well, notably Tyreke Evans who also had a fantastic iso defensive rating last year, and I don't know anyone who considers Evans a lockdown defender. Even Omri Casspi had a 0.63 iso rating, one of the best in the league..

I do generally trust Synergy Sports though, so I might be harsh on Rose here; maybe he's in fact a better defender than I give him credit for, but my eye test just doesn't jibe with it.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 10:33 AM
how many playoff series has he won?

MiscMessiah
01-23-2011, 10:37 AM
how many playoff series has he won?

when did he have a good team?

tmc.
01-23-2011, 11:20 AM
when did he have a good team?

Lebron won plenty of playoff series with the worst team in history.

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Lebron won plenty of playoff series with the worst team in history.

Not in his first two years. And no one's comparing him to LeBron anyways. I don't think anyone believes at this point in their careers that Rose is that good.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Not in his first two years. And no one's comparing him to LeBron anyways. I don't think anyone believes at this point in their careers that Rose is that good.

Have a very good first half of season - you're the GOAT.

Have one great playoff game - you're the GOAT.

Get a double double in the first half - you're the MVP.

Doesn't just apply to Rose, so tired of it.

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 11:35 AM
Have a very good first half of season - you're the GOAT.

Have one great playoff game - you're the GOAT.

Get a double double in the first half - you're the MVP.

Doesn't just apply to Rose, so tired of it.

Well that's relevant, when the OP already listed off a handful of players currently better than him. I'd add a couple more to the list, but this thread's hardly out of line. Especially when you have retards making threads saying he's not good because he doesn't pass to Bogans 20 times a game.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 11:53 AM
Well that's relevant, when the OP already listed off a handful of players currently better than him. I'd add a couple more to the list, but this thread's hardly out of line. Especially when you have retards making threads saying he's not good because he doesn't pass to Bogans 20 times a game.

He said he's the best point guard in the league. Maybe if you're considering half a season, but that's a joke.

He's not better than Rondo or Paul. Maybe he surpasses them at some point, but definitely not yet.

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 12:13 PM
He said he's the best point guard in the league. Maybe if you're considering half a season, but that's a joke.

He's not better than Rondo or Paul. Maybe he surpasses them at some point, but definitely not yet.

Paul > Rose >>>> Rondo.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Paul > Rose >>>> Rondo.

players who score points are a dime a dozen in the NBA

players who play elite defense with very high game IQ and elite passing are more important

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 12:18 PM
players who score points are a dime a dozen in the NBA

players who play elite defense with very high game IQ and elite passing are more important

Yeah because all Rose does is score points :rolleyes:.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Yeah because all Rose does is score points :rolleyes:.

obviously not, but if you want to say Rose is the best scoring PG and Rondo the best defending/passing PG, it is much harder to find a Rondo than it is a Rose

Rondo has been the best player on the Celtics championship teams, we'll see if Rose gets to that level

Greg1983
01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
it is much harder to find a Rondo than it is a Rose

I'll agree with that. It's pretty hard to find a point guard with no jumper and who can't even drain free throws.

tmc.
01-23-2011, 12:25 PM
I'll agree with that. It's pretty hard to find a point guard with no jumper and who can't even drain free throws.

http://www.hoopstvonline.com/news/rondo11-06ring.jpg

airemout
01-23-2011, 12:31 PM
I would say Williams is the best but Rose is probably number 2. When CP3 is on his game he is better than both of them.

SwaggerJack
01-23-2011, 12:48 PM
D-Will is still the best PG in the NBA. The Jazz are only 3 games behind the Bulls, and D-Will is surrounded with less talent around him too. I'd take him over Rose in the playoffs right now.

Also, lol @ comparing Rose's FG% to Kobe's FG%, when you know Kobe's the type of player that takes heat checks every third shot he shoots. Rose actually has decent shot selection...but still shoots at that FG%.

SuperAlphaForce
01-23-2011, 01:23 PM
D-Will is still the best PG in the NBA. The Jazz are only 3 games behind the Bulls, and D-Will is surrounded with less talent around him too. I'd take him over Rose in the playoffs right now.

Also, lol @ comparing Rose's FG% to Kobe's FG%, when you know Kobe's the type of player that takes heat checks every third shot he shoots. Rose actually has decent shot selection...but still shoots at that FG%.

rose has to force up many shots at the end of the shot clock

and dwill had a healthy team rose had how many games with noah and boozer both playing?

rsnnh12
01-23-2011, 01:42 PM
rose has to force up many shots at the end of the shot clock


Isn't it his job, as the PG, to run the offense and try to minimize last-second "buzzer" beaters? Can't blame anyone for that but Rose.


Rose is a phenomenal player, has the potential to be a top 5ish player eventually, but he's not there yet. It would nice to see what happens if the Bulls can pick up a good SG, and if Rose can easily transition back to more of a set-up guy rather than the scorer.

AriGhold
01-23-2011, 01:43 PM
ddct is still green... misc i am disappoint