PDA

View Full Version : I'm probably the biggest Lebron Hater, but Lebron is better than Kobe (SRS).



alertse
01-02-2011, 03:53 PM
First off, I hate Lebron as much as the next guy. I think he's arrogant and your typical prima dona. From the attention-seeking "decision" to the "44 minutes is too much" press conference, I think the guy is a total punk. I find him pretty classless after not shaking hands with the Magic after being eliminated and then trying rationalize it by saying he's a competitor and doesn't like to lose.

With that being said, I wholeheartedly believe that Lebron, in his prime, is better than Kobe in his prime. Yeah, I know Kobe has five rings and that's what the Kobe supporters will use in his defense, but then again, you would never say that Russell was better than Jordan because Russell had 11 rings.

For the sake of this argument, I will be referring to the Cavs-led Lebron teams from the past.

1. If Kobe and Lebron traded places (meaning Lebron was in LA and Kobe was in Cleveland), how good do you think the Lakers would be? The Lebron led Lakers would be at least two times as good as a Kobe led team.

2. Lebron's 2007 team was terrible. The Cavs' second best player was Bobbie Gibson for crying out loud. I remember that year as if it were yesterday. It was amazing to watch how Lebron willed his team to the Finals. Heck, the Cavs 2008-2010 teams weren't even that good. Sure, they had some good role players in West, Williams, and Parker -- but you wouldn't argue that they had the same depth as Utah, San Antonio, LA, Boston, Orlando, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, or Phoenix. Lebron was just that good.

3. Without Gasol, Bynum, and Artest, Kobe couldn't even make it to the playoffs. And even when he did make the playoffs, he couldn't even close out a 3-1 series lead over the Suns. Without a good team, Kobe hasn't done anything.

Granted, Kobe has won 5 titles. He's an amazing player, but from an individual standpoint, Lebron is better.

The Cavs have had two 60+ wins season these past few years. Lebron's team was not good. They have some nice pieces, good solid complementary players here and there. Are you really trying to tell me that Lebron had a good supporting cast when he had rookie Daniel Gibson knocking out shots for him?

Kobe had Shaq with him for three titles, and now he has Gasol, Bynum, Artest, and Odom for two titles.

Lebron has willed his team to two 60+ win seasons and a Final appearance in 2007. Kobe has missed the playoffs with bad teams and has blown a 3-1 series lead. Adding insult to injury, he has always threaten to leave.

I just think it's astonishing what Lebron has done with his team and how he's gotten the most out of a bad team -- two 60+ wins seasons and a Final appearance in 2007. You compare his team with Utah, San Antonio, LA, Boston, Orlando, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Denver and Phoenix -- he has no where near the same amount of depth and impact players as them.

Without Lebron... the Cavs are 8-25... headed right to the lottery.

The fact of the matter is that Kobe has always had a team full of talented, All-Star caliber players. He's had arguably, best centers in each of his two champion runs. Every year that he's won it, his team has been the consensus to win it all. Kobe has more rings than Lebron due to serendipity, not because he's better than Lebron. Kobe couldn't do anything without future hall-of-fame centers in the prime of their careers, and that is a fact. It's easy to win championships when you have the undisputed best team in the NBA.

MattMTheOnly
01-02-2011, 03:57 PM
inb4 5 rings.jpeg

KAYBEE24
01-02-2011, 03:59 PM
he's not even the best player on his team & u think he's better than kobe?

LAballin24
01-02-2011, 04:00 PM
If Lebron doesn't win this year, he will be considered a choker.

MattMTheOnly
01-02-2011, 04:05 PM
he's not even the best player on his team & u think he's better than kobe?

LeBron averages more...everything but off .1 in PPG. He his a higher EFF and a higher +/- while he's on the floor.

Calling Wade the best player just because he averages .1 more points. GTFO. James is the key reason Arroyo is leading the league in 3 point %, something Wade couldn't do all of the years they played together.

FryDude
01-02-2011, 04:07 PM
I didn't read a single sound argument, do you even watch basketball? Go back to trolling the misc please...

KAYBEE24
01-02-2011, 04:08 PM
LeBron averages more...everything but off .1 in PPG. He his a higher EFF and a higher +/- while he's on the floor.

Calling Wade the best player just because he averages .1 more points. GTFO. James is the key reason Arroyo is leading the league in 3 point %, something Wade couldn't do all of the years they played together.

u mad Kevin Love is avging 20 PTS, 16 REB...he must be the best player in the league

GPx
01-02-2011, 04:13 PM
LeBron averages more...everything but off .1 in PPG. He his a higher EFF and a higher +/- while he's on the floor.

Calling Wade the best player just because he averages .1 more points. GTFO. James is the key reason Arroyo is leading the league in 3 point %, something Wade couldn't do all of the years they played together.

Oh look a stat whore...

lol @ Arroyo reasoning.

TexasHeat
01-02-2011, 04:14 PM
did not read

kobe > lebron

MattMTheOnly
01-02-2011, 04:15 PM
Oh look a stat whore...

lol @ Arroyo reasoning.

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/08/11/361814/profilepic/2210102orig.jpg

wtf are you doing on a bodybuilding website?

Location: Illinois.
Fanboy of: Kobe.
Status: Mad.

GPx
01-02-2011, 04:19 PM
You mirin?

mad @ 5 rings? lol yup.

alertse
01-02-2011, 04:22 PM
did not read

kobe > lebron

truth hurts

hawkrock60
01-02-2011, 04:29 PM
can someone translate? all I saw was


http://www.gifsoup.com/view1/1323960/the-shining-o.gif

MattMTheOnly
01-02-2011, 04:49 PM
You mirin?

mad @ 5 rings? lol yup.

Horry>Kobe

nuff' said.

That's going by Kobe fanboy standards, by the way. Horry also hit more bit time shots in the Finals than Kobe.

Horry is more clutch.
Horry has more rings.

Horry>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

But seriously, what are you doing on a bodybuilding website?

alertse
01-02-2011, 04:51 PM
ITT: kobe nuthuggers get butthurt

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0617/nba_pierce_celtics_war_top.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/25i3hhd.jpg

NoWamSayin
01-02-2011, 04:54 PM
gotta admit lebron is a good player.

NickA44
01-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Kobe holding 2 trophies and laughing.jpg

GPx
01-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Horry>Kobe

nuff' said.

That's going by Kobe fanboy standards, by the way. Horry also hit more bit time shots in the Finals than Kobe.

Horry is more clutch.
Horry has more rings.

Horry>>>>>>>>>>Kobe.

But seriously, what are you doing on a bodybuilding website?

Comparing apples to oranges.

You're a genius.



brb thinking a bodybuilding site means my goal is to become a huge hog.

Can you be any more of a simple minded retard?

ccj804
01-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Comparing apples to oranges.

You're a genius.



brb thinking a bodybuilding site means my goal is to become a huge hog.

Can you be any more of a simple minded retard?

this. I don't see any pics of Matt.

alertse
01-02-2011, 05:13 PM
Do I even need to bring in the stat sheet? lolz

eskyhoneybeev2
01-02-2011, 05:19 PM
lebrons in his prime if he wasn't better you would be worried

the point is, Kobe is a historically filthy good player

81 pnt game, 9 threes in a row (yes 9 without missing a single one, NBA record, also shares NBA records for most 3's in a game), 50 pnt scoring streak games, 40 pnt scoring streak games, on of the hottest scoring streaks in history

I find it funny kobe can do all these things yet when it comes to his rings he rode shaqs/gasols back, jesus

alertse
01-04-2011, 10:12 PM
bumpeddd

Daewoo_Lanos
01-04-2011, 10:14 PM
he been better than kobe for at least 4 years now.

just like jordan was better than bird, magic, and isiah since about 86 but phaggots wouldn't admit it until 91.

TAWS6
01-04-2011, 10:16 PM
Strong moron thread is strong

ilikebeer
01-04-2011, 10:17 PM
only kobe nuthuggers and phaggots who use team awards to argue an individual players talent think kobe>lebron.

u all phaggots mad i speak da truth?

TAWS6
01-04-2011, 10:18 PM
only kobe nuthuggers and phaggots who use team awards to argue an individual players talent think kobe>lebron.

u all phaggots mad i speak da truth?

This is clearly a troll thread.

alertse
01-04-2011, 10:29 PM
Not sure if serious, but I'm probably one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the NBA on these forums.

TAWS6
01-04-2011, 10:46 PM
Not sure if serious, but I'm probably one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the NBA on these forums.

lol thats why your red?

wake me up when lebron wins something other than a regular season game. until then hes the no rings king.

Scorer
01-04-2011, 10:56 PM
You lost it at point#1.

Putting Lebron on the Lakers and having him play within the triangle, you'd think he'd be more effective than Kobe? Really??

icewill36
01-04-2011, 11:05 PM
You lost it at point#1.

Putting Lebron on the Lakers and having him play within the triangle, you'd think he'd be more effective than Kobe? Really??

you severely underestimate lebrons presence and impact on the court. also, lebron is such a great playmaker, he could absolutely pick teams apart in a triangle. man, the lakers would be able to make a push for the 72 and 10 record if they had lebron. the only thing kobe does better than lebron is hit difficult shots... shots lebron doesnt have to take because hes so physically imposing and explosive.

DrStupid
01-04-2011, 11:26 PM
Kobe couldn't do anything without future hall-of-fame centers in the prime of their careers, and that is a fact.

Shaq was in the prime of his career in LA...?

DrStupid
01-04-2011, 11:31 PM
Do I even need to bring in the stat sheet? lolz

Bring it in all you want, phaggot. Kobe had led his team to titles. Lebron? He states he's not one to chase rings, and he wants to build the Cavs into a team that can win the title - then he joins D-Wade at Miami, and somehow Chris Bosh gets a lot of press as a decent player because of it.

Lebrick is a joke; it's easy to average close to a triple double a game when you have no players to lead and no team to back you.

AppleCat
01-04-2011, 11:35 PM
Bring it in all you want, phaggot. Kobe had led his team to titles. Lebron? He states he's not one to chase rings, and he wants to build the Cavs into a team that can win the title - then he joins D-Wade at Miami, and somehow Chris Bosh gets a lot of press as a decent player because of it.

Lebrick is a joke; it's easy to average close to a triple double a game when you have no players to lead and no team to back you.

Were you one of the people who would also bash Lebron last year for not winning because his supporting cast was so great?

He takes the Cavs to 60 wins, people say his supporting cast is what makes them good. Lebron leaves, hello 8-25 or whatever they are.

Am I saying lebron is better than kobe, no. Are people like you retarded for saying lebron is garbage? yes.

DrStupid
01-04-2011, 11:43 PM
Not sure if serious, but I'm probably one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the NBA on these forums.

Ahem

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129163641



I'm tired of people putting Michael Jordan on the pedestal. Sure, he was a great player, and I'm not even going to bother to debate if he's the greatest player of all time or not because, quite frankly, I don't know...

...

I mean you look at today's game, you have so many great teams (I'm sure the 1990's had some great teams too, but then again, I was still a kid living in Vietnam, so I can't really comment)

lulz, phuck off

Be_Easy_25
01-04-2011, 11:44 PM
Shaq was in the prime of his career in LA...?

he signed with them at 24 years old.
last championship with them was at 30.


yea...he was.

JTrain306
01-04-2011, 11:47 PM
A Spurs fan who doesn't like Kobe?? You can't be serious. What's next, man lands on the moon?

and why is this troll unbanned?

DrStupid
01-04-2011, 11:52 PM
Were you one of the people who would also bash Lebron last year for not winning because his supporting cast was so great?

He takes the Cavs to 60 wins, people say his supporting cast is what makes them good. Lebron leaves, hello 8-25 or whatever they are.

Am I saying lebron is better than kobe, no. Are people like you retarded for saying lebron is garbage? yes.

No, I'm saying Lebron is a one man show. I think the morons who claim Kobes supporting cast makes him look like the GOAT are idiots - if Kobe cannot keep them in check on the court as a leader and keep them running as a cohesive, title winning unit, then no - he's not great. But he's won two titles without Shaq and counting, he's changed his game to the point where he doesn't need to score 30+ points a game to take his team through the season - it's no different to a business. Sure, the CEO may not necessarily get recognition as the MVP of that business, but without his leadership and inspiration the business would not succeed.

To base a GOAT rating on stats alone is absurd; if Kobe can lead his team through the playoffs to the NBA Finals - and 3 peat, which I still think the Lakers can do - he will go down as one of the greatest leaders on the court of our time, and a potential GOAT.

A leader doesn't say, "We're down, throw me the ball" - a role player does that - and that's how Lebrick spent his years at Cleveland. A role player who could occasionally finish a game. Nothing more.

Phaggots are too obsessed with pure stats when forming their judgments.

DrStupid
01-04-2011, 11:53 PM
he signed with them at 24 years old.
last championship with them was at 30.


yea...he was.

His best years were with Orlando.

Anthb7210p1
01-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Shaq was in the prime of his career in LA...?

Yup. 2001 was his best season.

Be_Easy_25
01-05-2011, 12:02 AM
His best years were with Orlando.

http://reaction.ralfvandenboom.nl/img/TO5cWyOPQR.jpg

DrStupid
01-05-2011, 12:12 AM
http://reaction.ralfvandenboom.nl/img/TO5cWyOPQR.jpg

Supporting cast...?

Be_Easy_25
01-05-2011, 12:34 AM
anfernee
nick
horace
3d

DrStupid
01-05-2011, 12:42 AM
anfernee
nick
horace
3d

Not a bad cast, is it? Obviously good enough to win a title, especially with D-Wade. So where are all the fukin naysayers about Shaq winning a title on his own?

JTrain306
01-05-2011, 12:45 AM
anfernee
nick
horace
3d


Not a bad cast, is it? Obviously good enough to win a title, especially with D-Wade. So where are all the fukin naysayers about Shaq winning a title on his own?

Where is D-Wade on that list he posted?

AppleCat
01-05-2011, 12:47 AM
Where is D-Wade on that list he posted?

Hey breh, Miami and Orlando are 4 hours apart. They are the same team.

DrStupid
01-05-2011, 01:00 AM
Where is D-Wade on that list he posted?

Did D-Wade not win a title with Shaq playing on his team...?

I was referring to Shaqs supporting cast with Miami when they took the title. About 7 beers in. Whoops.

Be_Easy_25
01-05-2011, 01:02 AM
Hey breh, Miami and Orlando are 4 hours apart. They are the same team.

lol

JTrain306
01-05-2011, 01:06 AM
Did D-Wade not win a title with Shaq playing on his team...?

I was referring to Shaqs supporting cast with Miami when they took the title. About 7 beers in. Whoops.
I thought you were talking about Shaq being in his prime in Orlando and not winning.

And yep, Shaq never won without a premier shooting guard on his team. Couldn't do it.

Scorer
01-05-2011, 01:25 AM
you severely underestimate lebrons presence and impact on the court. also, lebron is such a great playmaker, he could absolutely pick teams apart in a triangle. man, the lakers would be able to make a push for the 72 and 10 record if they had lebron. the only thing kobe does better than lebron is hit difficult shots... shots lebron doesnt have to take because hes so physically imposing and explosive.

Really, really cannot tell if you are serious or being sarcastic.

bOOgie CurlZ
01-05-2011, 02:01 AM
Not sure if serious, but I'm probably one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the NBA on these forums.

Age: 18

DrStupid
01-05-2011, 02:03 AM
I thought you were talking about Shaq being in his prime in Orlando and not winning.

And yep, Shaq never won without a premier shooting guard on his team. Couldn't do it.

So Shaq pairs up with Kobe, a premier shooting guard, for three titles. Who then, is responsible for the title win, given Shaq won three titles with a premier shooting guard? Kobe has won another two without Shaq. Was he necessary...?

icewill36
01-05-2011, 02:21 AM
So Shaq pairs up with Kobe, a premier shooting guard, for three titles. Who then, is responsible for the title win, given Shaq won three titles with a premier shooting guard? Kobe has won another two without Shaq. Was he necessary...?

kobe had the best front line with a prime shaq, and has it again with gasol, bynum, and odom.

the frontline has been the key in ALL the titles. kobe is not what opposing teams cant overcome, its the damn frontline. the fact that the lakers are a sub .500 team when kobe gets above a certain number of shots should tell you something. lebron is not a ball hog so it would never be an issue.

TeamFlex
01-05-2011, 04:20 AM
Teams win championships, not individuals.

Ecnewyx
01-05-2011, 06:57 AM
Don't even know why I'm posting in this thread but you have to figure the fact that just about every GM and NBA player considers Kobe the premier player in the game has to count for something, right?

Also LeBron should be a better player; he's certainly the better athlete: he's taller, stronger, he has unparalleled athleticism, etc. He can put up monster stats but then when it comes to taking the game winning shot... he'll dump it off. Or he'll turn in a **** game in the playoffs and complain that he can't do it alone. Maybe this is the year he finally puts it all together.

Everything else is just speculation. Maybe LeBron wins a title in 2010 with Gasol and Bynum or maybe they get knocked out by the Suns when LeBron can't put them away in game 6. It's interesting to speculate but to make bald assertions as if switching LeBron with Kobe instantly makes the Lakers twice as good as if it was fact is ridiculous. Should've expected it from OP though. My one regret in not winning the Mega Millions last night is that I can't buy BB.com and ban OP's trolling phaggot ass.

LepussyShames
01-05-2011, 10:33 AM
This should end the debate whether it was the frontline or Kobe during these last few years:

Kobe's Stats in the Playoffs:

06-07: 32.8 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG
07-08: 30.1 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.6 APG
08-09: 30.2 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 5.5 APG
09-10: 29.2 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG

I give Lebron credit for his 08-09 postseason, but even then, Dwight had a few 40 point games while Lebron choked toward the end shooting 60-70% on FT's at the end of crucial games that would've probably led Cleveland back to the Finals

papishasho
01-05-2011, 10:49 AM
His best years were with Orlando.

LMAO

http://www.lakerstats.com/shaquille_oneal-profile.html

TheVM
01-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Honestly its so obvious at this point. Just stupid gay Laker fans who have a crush on Kobe think he is better than Lebron. Most of my Laker fan friends have long ago admited that Lebron is better than Kobe.

I already made a thread were I owned every Kobe fan on the boards, they eventually stopped posting in it cause they were just getting owned left and right. I am sure many of them cried. lololol. Kobe isn't even 2nd best honestly, a few years ago maybe not anymore.

NewMindstate
01-05-2011, 11:47 AM
Bring it in all you want, phaggot. Kobe had led his team to titles. Lebron? He states he's not one to chase rings, and he wants to build the Cavs into a team that can win the title - then he joins D-Wade at Miami, and somehow Chris Bosh gets a lot of press as a decent player because of it.

Lebrick is a joke; it's easy to average close to a triple double a game when you have no players to lead and no team to back you.

firstly...lol if you don't think Chris Bosh is a good player...even he said recently "for some reason, some people get the impression that I'm not a good player"...those people are just flat out dumb. From watching him in Toronto for years to watching most Heat games this year..trust me, Bosh is sickeningly good at basketball (mainly offensively, but still). Putting up 19 and 9 on a team with 2 of the very best players in the NBA is still pretty great, especially when he gets the ball like 30 percent as much as he did on the Raptors.

Secondly, lol at "easy to average close to a triple double when you have no players to lead and no team to back you"....yeah, cuz so many players on bad teams have still averaged 29, 8 and 7 over a 6 year span while shooting 50 percent...its really common.

Lebron lead a team of SCRUBS to 2 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance. However, granted...the supporting cast that Kobe had right after Shaq left made Daniel Gibson, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison and company look like Kareem and Magic....Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton were 3/5 of the starting lineups for Kobes team before they eventually got Gasol, so he deserves some slack for not immediately leading the Lakers to the title after Shaq left.

Ecnewyx
01-05-2011, 11:55 AM
firstly...lol if you don't think Chris Bosh is a good player...even he said recently "for some reason, some people get the impression that I'm not a good player"...those people are just flat out dumb. From watching him in Toronto for years to watching most Heat games this year..trust me, Bosh is sickeningly good at basketball (mainly offensively, but still). Putting up 19 and 9 on a team with 2 of the very best players in the NBA is still pretty great, especially when he gets the ball like 30 percent as much as he did on the Raptors.

Secondly, lol at "easy to average close to a triple double when you have no players to lead and no team to back you"....yeah, cuz so many players on bad teams have still averaged 29, 8 and 7 over a 6 year span while shooting 50 percent...its really common.

Lebron lead a team of SCRUBS to 2 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance. However, granted...the supporting cast that Kobe had right after Shaq left made Daniel Gibson, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison and company look like Kareem and Magic....Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton were 3/5 of the starting lineups for Kobes team before they eventually got Gasol, so he deserves some slack for not immediately leading the Lakers to the title after Shaq left.

Agree with everything you said except the thing with Bosh. But then, the new generation of super-lanky power forwards who don't play a lick of defense (see also Pau Gasol, lol) has not made much of an impression on me.

TAWS6
01-05-2011, 12:01 PM
The only thing funnier than Lebron > Kobe would be Lebron > Jordan.

Edit- I dont like lebron or kobe

u mad?

NewMindstate
01-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Agree with everything you said except the thing with Bosh. But then, the new generation of super-lanky power forwards who don't play a lick of defense (see also Pau Gasol, lol) has not made much of an impression on me.

he deserves more credit though....put up 23 and 10 for 5 years on the Raptors (and not all of those teams sucked either...they won the division one year and finished 3rd in the east). Hes not good enough to be the number one option on a playoff deep team...hes not quite in the upper tier of players in the league, but hes close. Him being a third option on a team is a joke though, and while Wade and Bron get all the attention...hes very quietly been having a great year.

alertse
01-05-2011, 12:12 PM
Kobe doesn't win without Shaq or Gasol -- that is a fact. He never did anything without both of them. He missed the playoffs one year and blew a 3-1 another year. The truth hurts, I know. I hate how Kobe fans argue one side only. They say Kobe had a bad team in those years, but what about Lebron? Lebron had an equally bad team but still managed to propel them to two 60+ win seasons and a finals appearance.

Ecnewyx
01-05-2011, 12:19 PM
he deserves more credit though....put up 23 and 10 for 5 years on the Raptors (and not all of those teams sucked either...they won the division one year and finished 3rd in the east). Hes not good enough to be the number one option on a playoff deep team...hes not quite in the upper tier of players in the league, but hes close. Him being a third option on a team is a joke though, and while Wade and Bron get all the attention...hes very quietly been having a great year.

So good enough to be the second option on a team? I'd agree with that seeing as how he wasn't and apparently didn't want to be successful as a first option with the Raptors.

On that note, and to get back to the topic, I find it idiotic that Gasol was a failure as a franchise player with the Grizzlies (if we judge the team by the record and playoff victories) but yet after joining Kobe he's suddenly the face of the Lakers.


Kobe doesn't win without Shaq or Gasol -- that is a fact.

And LeBron hasn't won PERIOD -- this is also a fact.



He never did anything without both of them. He missed the playoffs one year and blew a 3-1 another year. The truth hurts, I know. I hate how Kobe fans argue one side only. They say Kobe had a bad team in those years, but what about Lebron? Lebron had an equally bad team but still managed to propel them to two 60+ win seasons and a finals appearance.

In 2006 the Lakers were 2nd in the Pacific and made the playoffs with a starting lineup of Kobe + Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton. I mean, seriously. Take a look at that lineup. Smush is out of the league now, Luke Walton can't crack the rotation on the Lakers and probably wouldn't have cracked the rotation in Cleveland with LeBron. Kwame Brown is... **** it's Kwame-****ing-Brown. It's a miracle that they were up 3-1 against the Suns to begin with and wouldn't have been in that position if it wasn't for last second heroics from Kobe throughout the series.

In 2007 the Lakers fielded the same lineup and sucked just as badly. LeBron's teams were much better towards the tailend of his career with the Cavs.

NewMindstate
01-05-2011, 12:24 PM
Kobe doesn't win without Shaq or Gasol -- that is a fact. He never did anything without both of them. He missed the playoffs one year and blew a 3-1 another year. The truth hurts, I know. I hate how Kobe fans argue one side only. They say Kobe had a bad team in those years, but what about Lebron? Lebron had an equally bad team but still managed to propel them to two 60+ win seasons and a finals appearance.

god dammit....NO. First off, going with that argument is like arguing that MJ never did **** without Pippen....guess what, great players still need OTHER GREAT PLAYERS to help them win titles. Go find me a championship team that had one great player and the rest of the roster was unremarkable.

Secondly, yes, the "he had a bad team excuse" does fly for Kobe. Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown. Those were some of the starters that comprised those Lakers team from 04-06. Lebrons supporting cast (while very subpar) over the past 2 years was not nearly that horrendous.

Its not just as simple as "if he can't win a championship the year after the Lakers dismantled (and he had one of the worst supporting casts I've ever seen) then he sucks.

These arguments are just dumb...instead of trying to argue that Kobe just rode Shaq's coatails to 3 rings, consider whether or not Shaq would have won those rings if an average SG took Kobe's place....I really don't think so to be honest. Kobe was still All-NBA first team. Its not like he was just some scrub who piggybacked his way to rings.

TAWS6
01-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Kobe doesn't win without Shaq or Gasol -- that is a fact. He never did anything without both of them.

LOL What has Lebron done ever?

your a horrible troll

TheVM
01-05-2011, 02:18 PM
LOL What has Lebron done ever?

your a horrible troll

past the first round of playoffs, into the championship. Lol when Kobe was even on a better team couldn't get out of the first round, bitched all the time like the pussy that he is, demanded to be traded, Phil called him uncoachable.

He knows he can't win on his own, thats why he cries when he doesn't have any help.

He is just too one dimensional to be anything but a good player. WHile Lebron does everything well and better than Kobe.

TAWS6
01-05-2011, 02:19 PM
past the first round of playoffs, into the championship. Lol when Kobe was even on a better team couldn't get out of the first round, bitched all the time like the pussy that he is, demanded to be traded, Phil called him uncoachable.

He knows he can't win on his own, thats why he cries when he doesn't have any help.

He is just too one dimensional to be anything but a good player. WHile Lebron does everything well and better than Kobe.

You could say Lebron cant play on his own either..

alertse
01-05-2011, 02:24 PM
You could say Lebron cant play on his own either..

Lebron took his crap team to the finals along with two seasons of 60+ wins.

And trust me... if the Heat win it all this year, I'll be saying the same thing about Lebron and how he needed Wade to get a ring.

I'm not pro-Kobe or pro-Lebron. I hate both equally. I'm just spitting the facts.

TheVM
01-05-2011, 02:25 PM
You could say Lebron cant play on his own either..
Sure, w/e, say whatever you want i don't care. Lebron never cried when he played 1v5 against other teams. Its still Lebron > Kobe.

thanks for agreeing with me though. another person converted.

JTrain306
01-05-2011, 02:27 PM
Sure, w/e, say whatever you want i don't care. Lebron never cried when he played 1v5 against other teams. Its still Lebron > Kobe.

thanks for agreeing with me though. another person converted.
And your delusion continues.

lostinthesouthh
01-05-2011, 02:30 PM
alertse unbanned and posting in sports section

fuk ya

alertse
01-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Sure, w/e, say whatever you want i don't care. Lebron never cried when he played 1v5 against other teams. Its still Lebron > Kobe.

thanks for agreeing with me though. another person converted.

lebron asked for a trade or cried. THIS x100

LepussyShames
01-05-2011, 02:49 PM
lebron asked for a trade or cried. THIS x100

Yeah he did something worse.

Instead of telling a team's management that he wants to leave/be traded if the team doesn't put a better supporting cast around him, he hyped his free agency up for 2 years leading up to July 2010. Then he led on the Cavs during last year, keeping quiet to himself what his decision was going to be, so they couldn't trade for him. He completely disrespected management and never returned any of Dan Gilbert's phone calls/txt msgs to let him know how it was gonna turn out.

In the end? He promotes a self-aggrandizing 1 hour TV special to announce that he was gonna leave Cleveland and go to Miami.



So basically, Kobe's warning of the Lakers that they should trade him if they don't build around him with requesting a public trade is worse than Lebron doing all of the above, right? And I'm sure the Lakers management would've preferred what Lebron did instead of what Kobe did, amiright?

Fukin idiots.

alertse
01-05-2011, 03:04 PM
Yeah he did something worse.

Instead of telling a team's management that he wants to leave/be traded if the team doesn't put a better supporting cast around him, he hyped his free agency up for 2 years leading up to July 2010. Then he led on the Cavs during last year, keeping quiet to himself what his decision was going to be, so they couldn't trade for him. He completely disrespected management and never returned any of Dan Gilbert's phone calls/txt msgs to let him know how it was gonna turn out.

In the end? He promotes a self-aggrandizing 1 hour TV special to announce that he was gonna leave Cleveland and go to Miami.



So basically, Kobe's warning of the Lakers that they should trade him if they don't build around him with requesting a public trade is worse than Lebron doing all of the above, right? And I'm sure the Lakers management would've preferred what Lebron did instead of what Kobe did, amiright?

Fukin idiots.

Whatever dude... it's stupid to argue semantics. I hate Lebron as much as you do -- judging by your name. I just speak the truth and the truth is that Lebron is better than Kobe.

Trust me, I will be the first one to knock on Lebron if the Heat win it this year. I'll be
saying the exact same thing I'm saying with Kobe and how Lebron needed Wade.

I'm not a fanboy. I don't argue one side and totally disregard the other. Lakers fans say that Kobe had a bad supporting cast right? So why don't they give Lebron any credit when he had a bad team as well?

TAWS6
01-05-2011, 03:08 PM
Lebron took his crap team to the finals along with two seasons of 60+ wins.

And trust me... if the Heat win it all this year, I'll be saying the same thing about Lebron and how he needed Wade to get a ring.

I'm not pro-Kobe or pro-Lebron. I hate both equally. I'm just spitting the facts.

He better win it all this year with the heat.

NewMindstate
01-05-2011, 03:18 PM
these arguments are pointless at the end of the day....EVERY great player who has won a ring has had other great players to help him...try and name me any championship team over the past 25-30 years that hasn't had more than one great player....Larry Bird played with 2 other hall of famers...same with Magic. Michael Jordan played with another top 10 player for all 6 and had the best rebounder in the game on his team for 3 of his 6 titles. Kevin Garnett had been out of the first round once in ten years before he joined the Celtics.

Trying to focus on the couple of years that the Lakers struggled without Shaq and only Kobe is stupid. Every team goes through rebuilding processes. The year they didn't make the playoffs was just a bad year all around...Kobe was going through the rape case thing, Phil Jackson had just left...Chucky Atkins and Chris Mihm were very important starters. Its easy to see where things went wrong.

And comparing Kobe and Lebron is also just stupid...can't we all agree that they're both amazing in their own rights? I enjoy watching Lebron more...hes more physically gifted, and has a better all around game than Kobe....but Kobe has a drive to win and the ability to will his team to victory that cannot be matched. He also hits game winners like they're layups. Both have their faults, but at the end of the day they're 2 of the best we've seen.

TAWS6
01-05-2011, 03:27 PM
And comparing Kobe and Lebron is also just stupid...can't we all agree that they're both amazing in their own rights? I enjoy watching Lebron more...hes more physically gifted, and has a better all around game than Kobe....but Kobe has a drive to win and the ability to will his team to victory that cannot be matched. He also hits game winners like they're layups. Both have their faults, but at the end of the day they're 2 of the best we've seen.

I agree its like comparing Rodgers or Rivers to Brady. No one will agree.

SRSmiscerIZsrs
01-05-2011, 03:52 PM
First off, I hate Lebron as much as the next guy. I think he's arrogant and your typical prima dona. From the attention-seeking "decision" to the "44 minutes is too much" press conference, I think the guy is a total punk. I find him pretty classless after not shaking hands with the Magic after being eliminated and then trying rationalize it by saying he's a competitor and doesn't like to lose.

With that being said, I wholeheartedly believe that Lebron, in his prime, is better than Kobe in his prime. Yeah, I know Kobe has five rings and that's what the Kobe supporters will use in his defense, but then again, you would never say that Russell was better than Jordan because Russell had 11 rings.

For the sake of this argument, I will be referring to the Cavs-led Lebron teams from the past.

1. If Kobe and Lebron traded places (meaning Lebron was in LA and Kobe was in Cleveland), how good do you think the Lakers would be? The Lebron led Lakers would be at least two times as good as a Kobe led team.

2. Lebron's 2007 team was terrible. The Cavs' second best player was Bobbie Gibson for crying out loud. I remember that year as if it were yesterday. It was amazing to watch how Lebron willed his team to the Finals. Heck, the Cavs 2008-2010 teams weren't even that good. Sure, they had some good role players in West, Williams, and Parker -- but you wouldn't argue that they had the same depth as Utah, San Antonio, LA, Boston, Orlando, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, or Phoenix. Lebron was just that good.

3. Without Gasol, Bynum, and Artest, Kobe couldn't even make it to the playoffs. And even when he did make the playoffs, he couldn't even close out a 3-1 series lead over the Suns. Without a good team, Kobe hasn't done anything.

Granted, Kobe has won 5 titles. He's an amazing player, but from an individual standpoint, Lebron is better.

The Cavs have had two 60+ wins season these past few years. Lebron's team was not good. They have some nice pieces, good solid complementary players here and there. Are you really trying to tell me that Lebron had a good supporting cast when he had rookie Daniel Gibson knocking out shots for him?

Kobe had Shaq with him for three titles, and now he has Gasol, Bynum, Artest, and Odom for two titles.

Lebron has willed his team to two 60+ win seasons and a Final appearance in 2007. Kobe has missed the playoffs with bad teams and has blown a 3-1 series lead. Adding insult to injury, he has always threaten to leave.

I just think it's astonishing what Lebron has done with his team and how he's gotten the most out of a bad team -- two 60+ wins seasons and a Final appearance in 2007. You compare his team with Utah, San Antonio, LA, Boston, Orlando, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Denver and Phoenix -- he has no where near the same amount of depth and impact players as them.

Without Lebron... the Cavs are 8-25... headed right to the lottery.

The fact of the matter is that Kobe has always had a team full of talented, All-Star caliber players. He's had arguably, best centers in each of his two champion runs. Every year that he's won it, his team has been the consensus to win it all. Kobe has more rings than Lebron due to serendipity, not because he's better than Lebron. Kobe couldn't do anything without future hall-of-fame centers in the prime of their careers, and that is a fact. It's easy to win championships when you have the undisputed best team in the NBA.

Im going to spend time coming at you brah.

1. You cant say switch places man. Kobe plays the 2 guard. Lebron plays the 3. Kobe is in 14th year. Lebron is in his 8th. Kobe has WAY more mileage on him than Lebron does. Cant compare someone who is in their prime to Kobe who is sliding past his.

2. Lets remember hes playing in the eastern conference and the east is complete dogshat. Getting the 8th seed in the west takes 50 wins every year. 50 wins in the east is the 4 seed. He beat no one in the east to get to the finals where he was swept. His shooting percentage was terrible and his free throw percentage was terrible. Remember when AI was leading a terrible 76ers team through the east to the finals? They played the lakers and got 4-1'd against shaq and kobe. Atleast AI won a finals game ALONE. Lebron hasnt won anything.

3. He made it to the playoffs with a ****ty team. Remember they lost to the suns?

Also note you are comparing a shooting guard who is 6'6" 210-220 pounds (kobe) vs 6'8" Lebron who weighs 250-260. Hes a beast. He is the best at getting to rim anytime he wants but not the best overall player. He hasnt played an entire season with a good inside/outside game. Kobe made more game winners last year than Lebron has in his entire career. Kobe makes all of them with the world knowing whats going to happen to.

As far as the cavs 60 win seasons. Like i said before its the eastern conference where 41-41 gets you into the playoffs. Last year he had Antawn who was an allstar to TWO previous years with washington. Mo Williams was coming off an Allstar appearance. They also traded for shaq. You can say whatever you want about shaq but he was averaging 20 and 10 to start the year with the C's. Lebron didnt get shaq involved and even at his age he can dominate every center in the league except Howard and maybe a few others. Those 60 win seasons in the western conference imo would be low 50's.

Kobe threatened to leave when his starting cast was luke walton, smush parker, and a bunch of other tards. He said get people around me or im leaving. Lebron cried and wanted the same help. The reason they brought in Shaq (to compete with LA's big men) and stole Antwan Jamison (sp?)....they traded big z for antwan which was a joke. They got the pieces he wanted and still failed. Having two 60 win seasons means nothing when you cant even make it to the eastern conference finals.

When you say Kobe has had an allstar cast his entire career thats false. http://www.lakersuniverse.com/seasons/2004_2005_roster.htm - His roster from 04-06 was complete shat. He had people like smush parker, luke walton, aaron mckie, vladie divac, chris mimm, kwame brown.

Lebron is good but he doesnt have the complete game kobe has.

LepussyShames
01-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Kobe will and always be better imo cause he's causing so many people to DEBATE on whether he or Lebron is better...and he's sliding past his prime.

In his prime, during 05-06, no one even questioned who the best player was, and I think that makes the difference, aside from all the playoff success that Kobe has under his belt.


Most 50 PT Games Since 03-04

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=career&year_min=2004&year_max=2011&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=50&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

SRSmiscerIZsrs
01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Sure, w/e, say whatever you want i don't care. Lebron never cried when he played 1v5 against other teams. Its still Lebron > Kobe.

thanks for agreeing with me though. another person converted.

he didnt cry? He refused to shake hands after they lost like a BlTCH. He quit in game 6 against the Celtics. Hes cried about how he cant do it alone. PLS GO.


Whatever dude... it's stupid to argue semantics. I hate Lebron as much as you do -- judging by your name. I just speak the truth and the truth is that Lebron is better than Kobe.

Trust me, I will be the first one to knock on Lebron if the Heat win it this year. I'll be
saying the exact same thing I'm saying with Kobe and how Lebron needed Wade.

I'm not a fanboy. I don't argue one side and totally disregard the other. Lakers fans say that Kobe had a bad supporting cast right? So why don't they give Lebron any credit when he had a bad team as well?

Ban this troll

Lugie
01-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Didn't read but!


http://crankuptheheat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/38490_10100275671144663_5217457_62049150_4075096_n .jpg

Ecnewyx
01-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Didn't read but!


[img]http://crankuptheheat.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/38490_10100275671144663_5217457_62049150_4075096_n .jpg[img]

I thought Wade was more jacked than that. Anyway, Wade is cool with me... plus he's already got a ring so his legacy as a Miami Heat is secure. :D

VdHdIR8OS50

Sick96stang
01-05-2011, 06:35 PM
Lebron might be better than Kobe but Robert Horry is better than Lebron.

Lugie
01-05-2011, 08:28 PM
I thought Wade was more jacked than that. Anyway, Wade is cool with me... plus he's already got a ring so his legacy as a Miami Heat is secure. :D

VdHdIR8OS50

Bosh and Lebron are blocking his arms he is I went to a game earlier this year he's a beast.

MattMTheOnly
01-05-2011, 08:46 PM
Lebron might be better than Kobe but Robert Horry is better than Lebron.

Horry is GOAT.

7 rings.

That's all that matters, right? Rings.

Hoop_Dreams
01-05-2011, 08:55 PM
Kobe doesn't win without Shaq or Gasol -- that is a fact. He never did anything without both of them. He missed the playoffs one year and blew a 3-1 another year. The truth hurts, I know. I hate how Kobe fans argue one side only. They say Kobe had a bad team in those years, but what about Lebron? Lebron had an equally bad team but still managed to propel them to two 60+ win seasons and a finals appearance.

This is such a dumbass argument.

No Superstar has won a ring without great teammates.

DrStupid
01-06-2011, 12:00 AM
kobe had the best front line with a prime shaq, and has it again with gasol, bynum, and odom.

the frontline has been the key in ALL the titles. kobe is not what opposing teams cant overcome, its the damn frontline. the fact that the lakers are a sub .500 team when kobe gets above a certain number of shots should tell you something. lebron is not a ball hog so it would never be an issue.

Kobe is a stone cold assassin when he's on and he needs to be. He's naturally gonna draw a double team or triple team once he's up and firing - but the fact that, as a leader and a premier playmaker, he is able to involve the rest of his team - means that, when the crunch comes - i.e. NBA Playoffs - the Lakers will again be unstoppable.

MattMTheOnly
01-06-2011, 12:13 AM
he didnt cry? He refused to shake hands after they lost like a BlTCH. He quit in game 6 against the Celtics. Hes cried about how he cant do it alone. PLS GO.





Kobe walked off of the court twice without shaking hands after losing a round.

Kobe put up worse numbers than LeBron against the Celtics.

Kobe cried because he couldn't win after Shaq left.

So was your point to make Kobe look like the little girl he is, or what? I'm confused.

DrStupid
01-06-2011, 12:20 AM
Lebron took his crap team to the finals along with two seasons of 60+ wins.

And trust me... if the Heat win it all this year, I'll be saying the same thing about Lebron and how he needed Wade to get a ring.

I'm not pro-Kobe or pro-Lebron. I hate both equally. I'm just spitting the facts.

Lebron had Shaq one season going into the Playoffs. Blew past the Bulls, lost 4-2 to the Celtics.

Lebron + Shaq = no NBA finals.
Kobe + Shaq = three rings.
D-Wade + Shaq = one ring.
Kobe - Shaq = two rings.

icewill36
01-06-2011, 12:34 AM
LOL What has Lebron done ever?

your a horrible troll

lebron took a team to the finals without one player even as good as lamar odom....

Tiaios
01-06-2011, 12:46 AM
a different discussion had played out within the NBA and USA Basketball: What should we do with LeBron?

From Team USA coach Mike Krzyzewski to managing director Jerry Colangelo to NBA elders, the issue of James’ immaturity and downright disrespectfulness had become a consuming topic on the march to the Olympics. The course of history could’ve changed dramatically, because there was a real risk that James wouldn’t be brought to Beijing based on fears his monumental talents weren’t worth the daily grind of dealing with him.

When the mandate had been to gather these immense egos and get the NBA’s greatest players to fit into a program, no one had a more difficult time meshing into the framework than James. Other players made it a point to learn the names of staffers and modestly go about their business without barking orders and brash demands.

No one could stand James as a 19-year-old in the 2004 Athens Olympics, nor the 2006 World Championships. Officials feared James could become the instigator of everything they wanted to rid themselves for the ’08 Olympics. For as gifted as James was, Krzyzewski and Colangelo subscribed to a belief that with Kobe Bryant joining the national team in 2007, they could win a gold medal in ’08 with or without LeBron James. Behind the scenes, officials had taken to calling James’ inner circle, “The Enablers.” No one ever told him to grow up. No one ever challenged him. And yet, James was still a powerful pull for his teammates, and everyone had to agree they could no longer let his bossy and belittling act go unchecked. These weren’t the Cleveland Cavaliers, and Team USA wasn’t beholden to him.

After the NBA witnessed the behavior of James and his business manager Maverick Carter during the 2007 All-Star Weekend, the commissioner’s office sent word to USA Basketball the league wouldn’t force James on them for the Olympics. Before Team USA gathered for the 2007 Tournament of the Americas in Las Vegas, an unmistakable message had been delivered to James through Nike: Unless you change, we’re serious about leaving you home.

“Legacies were on the line,” one league official said, “and they weren’t going to let LeBron [expletive] it up for everyone in China.”

Through Nike, James ultimately heeded the message and became more tolerable to coaches, teammates and staff. Team USA assigned Jason Kidd to babysit him at the Tournament of the Americas in 2007, to try to teach him something the Cavaliers never had a veteran to do: professionalism.
.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Asisw0B7dxxElRE6rxc2p.C8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610


/END

DrStupid
01-06-2011, 04:36 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Asisw0B7dxxElRE6rxc2p.C8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610


/END

...ouch.

alertse
01-06-2011, 06:41 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Asisw0B7dxxElRE6rxc2p.C8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610


/END

hast little to do with basketball, dont know why u bothered quoting...


also michael jordan was probably the worst teammate ever; so i dont get your point; either way, it has nothing to with basketball

oh, and lets be honest, usa basketball > the world; usa is raping other countries, im sure they could have won gold without both kobe or lebron

Daewoo_Lanos
01-06-2011, 08:05 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Asisw0B7dxxElRE6rxc2p.C8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610


/END

yea a 19 year old brat being a 19 year old brat.

better watch out. by the time he's 25 he could be charged with rape.




oh wait.

Ecnewyx
01-06-2011, 08:22 AM
Kobe put up worse numbers than LeBron against the Celtics.

Kobe per game averages (vs. Celtics in the Finals 2008):
25.6 points, 4.6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2.6 steals, 0.1 blocks
53/131 on 40% shooting

Kobe per game averages (vs. Celtics in the Finals 2010):
28.5 points, 8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 2 steals, 0.7 blocks
66/163 on 40% shooting

LeBron per game averages (vs. Celtics in the Semifinals 2008):
26.7 points, 6.4 rebounds, 7.5 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.2 blocks
55/155 on 35% shooting

LeBron per game averages (vs. Celtics in the Semifinals 2010):
26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.1 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.3 blocks
51/114 on 45% shooting

Just so the stats are out there -- make of it what you will.

My comments:
LeBron's 7 assists per game actually represents a decline from his regular season averages, though still higher than Kobe's playoff/reg averages. LeBron runs the show in the Cavs offense, however, and gets assists at a point guard rate. Kobe's assists in the playoffs are in line with his reg season averages. No Lakers player averages more than 3-5 assists but the team averages better than the Cavs by 3-4 assists per game.

Both players average more rebounds in the playoffs than the regular season. LeBron averages rebounds at a small forward's higher rate (see Pippen, Odom), Kobe averages rebounds at a guard's rate (except in the 2010 finals in which his rebound average is boosted due to his rebounds in Game 7, but is an anomaly as far as his career averages go).

Both players average around the same points as the regular season.

Neither particularly impress; LeBron has higher overall stats but that's not news to anyone I would hope. He rebounds at a higher rate and has more assists because he has the ball more often. (See Dwyane Wade's assists in Miami pre-LeBron compared to now). He is reputed to be a gifted passer though I've yet to see him do anything remarkable. It's also interesting to note that with the Jordan/Pippen-era Bulls, which also ran the triangle offense, both Jordan and Pippen averaged 4-5 assists per game as well.

Edit:

Now that I think about it, if the Heat ran the triangle offense they might be the closest any team has come to replicating the #1/2 guard/small forward combo of the Bulls. Wade < Jordan, obviously but both are gifted scorers. LeBron is comparable to Pippen in versatility and a better scorer, though probably not in defense (including the pouting and the "not getting it", lulz).

thefederalist
02-15-2013, 06:00 PM
word