View Full Version : Circles do not exist

squanto

02-01-2007, 08:39 AM

New evidence has arisen questioning scientists long held belief in a geometric shape called a "circle". According to scientists and mathematicians a circle is a theoretical shape in which all points are somehow equidistant from a given center. No scientist has been able to produce what they call a "perfect circle" when given a piece of paper and pen.

That's when we began to question whether or not this shape is reality or fiction.

Dr. Jebus McGee replied "It's all mathematics, don't be ridiculous."

We then questioned about the mathematical properties of the circle Dr. McGee replied that determining the area and length of the sides (which he alleges do not actually exist as sides but curves) repeatedly brought up a variable "pi". When asked for an exact value of this "pi" variable, the professor could not provide one saying "it is too long to memorize and cannot be exacted, but I can approximate if you like".

Apparently it isn't all mathematics, Dr. McGee. Do circles exist? Maybe, but it's just a theory and until we see some exact evidence, the jury is definitely still out.

-Extension of any young earth creationist logic

jmonty

02-01-2007, 08:42 AM

do right triangles exist? do parrellel lines exist? :rolleyes:

All our geometric shapes will now be under attack. This smells of religion to me.

why do they keep changing my years of school education :(

Deep Set

02-01-2007, 08:51 AM

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

XBlasphemyX

02-01-2007, 09:13 AM

Since we are on the subject of geometry...

Mandelbrot zoom the size of the known universe:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATWrMlIKRBk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wiiYqG3XBiY&mode=related&search=

Mandlebrot zoom

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9sfwrXpIIF8

TwiloMike

02-01-2007, 09:48 AM

OMG no more circles? :eek: I so sad.... :(

IraHays

02-01-2007, 09:54 AM

First the screw Pluto and now cirlces!

Down with science!

SilverSpork

02-01-2007, 10:21 AM

Tooo.....much.....math.....i hate it

I never believed in circles!

IraHays

02-01-2007, 10:25 AM

I never believed in circles!

LMFAO!

zodiac666

02-01-2007, 10:40 AM

New evidence has arisen questioning scientists long held belief in a geometric shape called a "circle". According to scientists and mathematicians a circle is a theoretical shape in which all points are somehow equidistant from a given center. No scientist has been able to produce what they call a "perfect circle" when given a piece of paper and pen.

That's when we began to question whether or not this shape is reality or fiction.

Dr. Jebus McGee replied "It's all mathematics, don't be ridiculous."

We then questioned about the mathematical properties of the circle Dr. McGee replied that determining the area and length of the sides (which he alleges do not actually exist as sides but curves) repeatedly brought up a variable "pi". When asked for an exact value of this "pi" variable, the professor could not provide one saying "it is too long to memorize and cannot be exacted, but I can approximate if you like".

Apparently it isn't all mathematics, Dr. McGee. Do circles exist? Maybe, but it's just a theory and until we see some exact evidence, the jury is definitely still out.

-Extension of any young earth creationist logic

of course no one could draw a perfect circle with a pen and paper, because it wouldn't turn out perfect. and of course he couldn't provide an exact value of pie, here's the first few digits... 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79

82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196

44288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091 45648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273

24587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367 892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609.. .

circle - "A plane curve everywhere equidistant from a given fixed point, the center." i mean obviously it is possible to have a perfect circle, are they just saying that humans can't make a perfect circle? what exactly are they questioning?

IraHays

02-01-2007, 10:43 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eAhfZUZiwSE

Free hand circle drawing champion!

squanto

02-01-2007, 12:14 PM

Believe it or not, "Jebus McGee" actually doesn't exist and the post wasn't serious.

IraHays

02-01-2007, 12:16 PM

Believe it or not, "Jebus McGee" actually doesn't exist and the post wasn't serious.

I don't think anyone took it seriously?

squanto

02-01-2007, 12:18 PM

I don't think anyone took it seriously?

Post #11 blurs the line between satire and seriousness to me. I'm not sure.

I just want to make sure the point is made.

Fuelish

02-01-2007, 12:48 PM

" Square pegs, square pegs. Square, square pegs............One size does not fit all......." ;)

Popsicle52

02-01-2007, 12:51 PM

I have drawn a perfect circle.

honeybbqgrundle

02-01-2007, 01:14 PM

Believe it or not, "Jebus McGee" actually doesn't exist and the post wasn't serious.

But we do have posters who question everything in existence, while providing no real insights themselves. I really couldn't tell that it was satire until I read the very last sentence about YE creationists.

Although your post is correct in that nobody can ever tell you if a real life shape is a circle or tell you the exact area because measurements are inexact. So in the "real world", circles don't exist.

RelentlessChaos

02-01-2007, 01:15 PM

hmmm technically you cant have a perfect anything. so yeah.

to the naked eye you may call it "perfect"

but who really cares if circles dont exist. We have the name "circle" for like oranges and what not. so if its not a circle shape then what is it.

cicles have now been added to G. Bushes axis of evil

zodiac666

02-01-2007, 01:19 PM

hmmm technically you cant have a perfect anything. so yeah.

to the naked eye you may call it "perfect"

but who really cares if circles dont exist. We have the name "circle" for like oranges and what not. so if its not a circle shape then what is it.

oranges are circular shapes (Shaped like or nearly like a circle) but they are not circles (A plane curve everywhere equidistant from a given fixed point, the center).

zbtboy

02-01-2007, 01:20 PM

of course no one could draw a perfect circle with a pen and paper, because it wouldn't turn out perfect. and of course he couldn't provide an exact value of pie, here's the first few digits... 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79

82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196

44288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091 45648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273

24587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367 892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609.. .

circle - "A plane curve everywhere equidistant from a given fixed point, the center." i mean obviously it is possible to have a perfect circle, are they just saying that humans can't make a perfect circle? what exactly are they questioning?

Interestingly enough (or not) I saw on 60 minutes on Sunday a guy who memorized some rediculous amount of the numbers for pi. I think it was like over 20,000, and it took him over 5 hours to complete.

I'm lucky if i can remember the 3.14 part.

wildman536

02-01-2007, 01:23 PM

Since we are on the subject of geometry...

Mandelbrot zoom the size of the known universe:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATWrMlIKRBk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wiiYqG3XBiY&mode=related&search=

Mandlebrot zoom

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9sfwrXpIIF8

WTF??

Since we are on the subject of geometry...

Mandelbrot zoom the size of the known universe:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATWrMlIKRBk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wiiYqG3XBiY&mode=related&search=

Mandlebrot zoom

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9sfwrXpIIF8

care to explain wtf that is...i never took upper level geometry so i dont know wtf that is...lmao

its just a bunch of random shapes that keep zooming into eachother that make more random shape?

pretty freaking amazing

honeybbqgrundle

02-01-2007, 02:53 PM

care to explain wtf that is...i never took upper level geometry so i dont know wtf that is...lmao

its just a bunch of random shapes that keep zooming into eachother that make more random shape?

pretty freaking amazing

Look up "fractal" for answers.

I was wondering after reading the comments though-why do these "zooms" take so much computer power? The shape is self similar, so why can't it just keep updating the shape and zoom forever? It's hard to believe a modern computer can't do that, but then again computers always disappoint me anyway. Any CS people around?

XBlasphemyX

02-01-2007, 03:06 PM

care to explain wtf that is...i never took upper level geometry so i dont know wtf that is...lmao

its just a bunch of random shapes that keep zooming into eachother that make more random shape?

pretty freaking amazing

Fractals! Fractal are fairly new geometric shapes! They are pictures created by formulas. Ever since computers, people have been able to generate these. The mandlebrot set is the most famous.

Introduction to fractals:http://www.olympus.net/personal/dewey/mandelbrot.html

http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Fractals-Useful-Beauty.htm

http://perso.orange.fr/charles.vassallo/en/art/art_1a.html

http://perso.orange.fr/charles.vassallo/en/art/intro.html

With computer programs, we can delve deep into fractals, and see pictures created by these formulas that no one has ever seen before. They actually go on for infinity...you could keep going deep into it, anywhere, for all eternity and still see detail.

You can also create music with formulas:

http://www.donarcher.com/music.htm

http://members.aol.com/dshp3/mandelmaps.html

The universe is like a fractal.

Dr Triceps

02-01-2007, 03:15 PM

Nothing 'perfect' exists in the spatial, there is always a variance.

Circle's exist and to find anything of geometrical perfection in nature is impossible for humans, with our perceptions, to do.

No one can produce a perfect square, triangle...anything. The tools of measurement are not perfect. Such is the spatial world.

Trailer Boy

02-02-2007, 02:00 PM

Surely the existence of pi is proof, if any was needed, of God. Only he could create a non-reoccuring, infinite number that relates the dimensions of a circle.

squanto

02-02-2007, 03:26 PM

Surely the existence of pi is proof, if any was needed, of God. Only he could create a non-reoccuring, infinite number that relates the dimensions of a circle.

By his noodly appendage.

etech

02-02-2007, 03:41 PM

By his noodly appendage.

And his perfectly circular meatballs.

BTW, from an old fortran programming course I once took.

355/113 is a closer approximation to pi then 22/7

read me

02-02-2007, 03:44 PM

New evidence has arisen questioning scientists long held belief in a geometric shape called a "circle". According to scientists and mathematicians a circle is a theoretical shape in which all points are somehow equidistant from a given center. No scientist has been able to produce what they call a "perfect circle" when given a piece of paper and pen.

That's when we began to question whether or not this shape is reality or fiction.

Dr. Jebus McGee replied "It's all mathematics, don't be ridiculous."

We then questioned about the mathematical properties of the circle Dr. McGee replied that determining the area and length of the sides (which he alleges do not actually exist as sides but curves) repeatedly brought up a variable "pi". When asked for an exact value of this "pi" variable, the professor could not provide one saying "it is too long to memorize and cannot be exacted, but I can approximate if you like".

Apparently it isn't all mathematics, Dr. McGee. Do circles exist? Maybe, but it's just a theory and until we see some exact evidence, the jury is definitely still out.

strong obviousness, unless u never thought about it

pi is irrational...hence the circle can never be measured to be exact, i.e. whether this 'perfect circle' is exact or not could never be determined

and wat fundamental particle binds to form a perfect curve (for the radius to be constant at all points)? well, if they are as theorised, none. due to them all being spherical...

meh, circles are evil anyway

Weightaholic

02-02-2007, 03:46 PM

Surely the existence of pi is proof, if any was needed, of God. Only he could create a non-reoccuring, infinite number that relates the dimensions of a circle.

Are you serious?

Please tell me you're joking.

timmy47

02-02-2007, 03:54 PM

of course circles dont exist. neither do triangles, squares or lines. they are ideas. they are concepts. if you say "they do too exist" and show draw a circle, that is actually just a picture of a circle. an actual circle does not exist in this world. its a little hard to understand. if someone knows what im talking about and can give a better explaination then feel free.

read me

02-02-2007, 03:58 PM

of course circles dont exist. neither do triangles, squares or lines. they are ideas. they are concepts. if you say "they do too exist" and show draw a circle, that is actually just a picture of a circle. an actual circle does not exist in this world. its a little hard to understand. if someone knows what im talking about and can give a better explaination then feel free.

yeh ok, look up

adilrockstar

02-02-2007, 07:26 PM

New evidence has arisen questioning scientists long held belief in a geometric shape called a "circle". According to scientists and mathematicians a circle is a theoretical shape in which all points are somehow equidistant from a given center. No scientist has been able to produce what they call a "perfect circle" when given a piece of paper and pen.

That's when we began to question whether or not this shape is reality or fiction.

Dr. Jebus McGee replied "It's all mathematics, don't be ridiculous."

We then questioned about the mathematical properties of the circle Dr. McGee replied that determining the area and length of the sides (which he alleges do not actually exist as sides but curves) repeatedly brought up a variable "pi". When asked for an exact value of this "pi" variable, the professor could not provide one saying "it is too long to memorize and cannot be exacted, but I can approximate if you like".

Apparently it isn't all mathematics, Dr. McGee. Do circles exist? Maybe, but it's just a theory and until we see some exact evidence, the jury is definitely still out.

-Extension of any young earth creationist logic

How about you go get a piece of paper and a pen and make a perfect anything. Let me know how that comes out.