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lightsarefallin
11-02-2010, 02:11 PM
I recently read this article:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast41.htm

It just seems to complicated to me with a ton of supplements that I am really unfamiliar with.

I am an endomorph, have been chunky my whole life and gain weight very easily. I started bulking at the end of august after a 2.5 month cut. I weighed 173 and now I weight 194. I was wondering if anyone has any clear, concise advice on how to maximize lean gains and minimize fat gains. My stomach is getting fat again and it's disgusting to have it hanging over my pants when I sit down. It depresses me a lot.

I am about 15% body fat now. Anyone have any first hand experience with this? It's mostly nutrition I need help with. I read in the article that endos should only eat pre+post workout carbs and should reduce carbs almost completely on non-workout days. But then again I've been told that cutting out carbs like that is actually detrimental to lean mass gains. There's so many conflicting opinions and I don't know what to listen to anymore. I just know I don't want to be a fat sack of lard like I used to be.

Is the cardio advice good? 30 min low intensity every time I hit the gym? I weight train 5 times a week so that would equal 2.5 hours a week of low intensity cardio, but it would make my workouts almost 2 hours long and I don't have that time to spare most of the time.

Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

zly74
11-02-2010, 03:12 PM
The general consensus on here seems to be as long as you get your daily need of protein and fats while only going above maintenance calories by 300-500 then you should gain muscle while minimizing fat gain. I'm trying out this system myself now and seeing how it works.

lightsarefallin
11-02-2010, 04:25 PM
I feel as if I gained muscle in these 2 months. My biceps are now at 16 inches and before they were 15.25 or somewhere around that. I also took a good 4-5 inches around my chest and shoulders and people tell me I look like I got a lot muscular. It's just my stomach, though. My pants still fit, I'm still a size 34, but my ass feels a lot tighter in them. That's my biggest problem, ass and stomach storage.

Reformed90
11-02-2010, 05:01 PM
Endo's need to keep carbs moderate but no higher than that..you might want to look at dave's bulking diet

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6906911

jmuniverse
11-02-2010, 05:34 PM
Endo's need to keep carbs moderate but no higher than that..you might want to look at dave's bulking diet

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6906911


that looks outdated tbh
he also asks for an equal amount of fats and carbs
with a ratio of 50/25/25

so for someone that weighs roughly 150lbs
2500 cals/day

1250 cals protein/day
625cals fats/day
625cals carbs/day

625 cals per day of fats is almost 3 servings for someone thats an endomorph i think its too much

156 grams of carbs a day isnt too bad actually its right around 1g/bw
but this could also lead to fat gain as he doesnt actually discuss on off days when its not necessary to consume excess calories(from what i understand)

312 grams of protein a day- really? that much is not necessary imo and from what ive read in natty bb mags eating 6 times a day comes out to 52 grams per sitting.

69 grams of fats/day-

the diet in the thread is for a 200lb man i just did this for someone near my weight

Reformed90
11-02-2010, 06:16 PM
that looks outdated tbh
he also asks for an equal amount of fats and carbs
with a ratio of 50/25/25

so for someone that weighs roughly 150lbs
2500 cals/day

1250 cals protein/day
625cals fats/day
625cals carbs/day

625 cals per day of fats is almost 3 servings for someone thats an endomorph i think its too much

156 grams of carbs a day isnt too bad actually its right around 1g/bw
but this could also lead to fat gain as he doesnt actually discuss on off days when its not necessary to consume excess calories(from what i understand)

312 grams of protein a day- really? that much is not necessary imo and from what ive read in natty bb mags eating 6 times a day comes out to 52 grams per sitting.

69 grams of fats/day-

the diet in the thread is for a 200lb man i just did this for someone near my weight

Honestly it seems like the diet is pushed more towards some that has chemical help....

The Solution
11-02-2010, 06:27 PM
I am about 15% body fat now. Anyone have any first hand experience with this? It's mostly nutrition I need help with. I read in the article that endos should only eat pre+post workout carbs and should reduce carbs almost completely on non-workout days. But then again I've been told that cutting out carbs like that is actually detrimental to lean mass gains. There's so many conflicting opinions and I don't know what to listen to anymore. I just know I don't want to be a fat sack of lard like I used to be.

Is the cardio advice good? 30 min low intensity every time I hit the gym? I weight train 5 times a week so that would equal 2.5 hours a week of low intensity cardio, but it would make my workouts almost 2 hours long and I don't have that time to spare most of the time.

Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Everything is outlined in the book at scivationbooks.com all the diet info, the training info, and cardio info. Follow the program to a T and you will get results given the dedication and consistency. Scivation follows a "Diabetic Exchange system" where as 15g of carbs = 1 carb serving, 5g of fat = 1 fat serving, and 7g of protein or 1oz of protein = 1 protein serving. All the conversions are covered.

As far as workouts lasting 2 hours? If you are resting about 5 minutes between each sets then maybe, but the workouts should not take you longer than 45 minutes with 30 minutes of cardio. If you wish you can do the cardio upon waking in the morning and then workout later or vice versa to help save time around your workout. Schedule the cardio to where it suits your schedule.


Honestly it seems like the diet is pushed more towards some that has chemical help....

Most of dave's clients are enhanced.

jmuniverse
11-02-2010, 09:27 PM
yeah i figuered this much.

i still dont see why he likes to have an even split between carbs and fats its just been my experience higher carbs on harder days has always led to better results rather than higher EFA's

i have also fallen victim to the notion that EFA's consumed with carbs lead to fat gain
and that caffeine interferes with creatine(not that this has anything to do with this subject)

super_tactical
11-02-2010, 09:39 PM
I would not go 500 cals over maintenance.

I have to keep mine at about 200-300 over or I get fat...quick.

determined4000
11-02-2010, 09:48 PM
that looks outdated tbh
he also asks for an equal amount of fats and carbs
with a ratio of 50/25/25

so for someone that weighs roughly 150lbs
2500 cals/day

1250 cals protein/day
625cals fats/day
625cals carbs/day

625 cals per day of fats is almost 3 servings for someone thats an endomorph i think its too much

156 grams of carbs a day isnt too bad actually its right around 1g/bw
but this could also lead to fat gain as he doesnt actually discuss on off days when its not necessary to consume excess calories(from what i understand)

312 grams of protein a day- really? that much is not necessary imo and from what ive read in natty bb mags eating 6 times a day comes out to 52 grams per sitting.

69 grams of fats/day-

the diet in the thread is for a 200lb man i just did this for someone near my weight

those ratios were taken from his cutting diet. Thus, a person on the diet if consuming 2500 calories would probably be well over 200lbs, and in a deficit-->use 300grams protein
Ratios are an obsolete way of looking at macronutrient need
1-1.5g/lb protein
.4-.5g/lb fat or more on a bulk
rest can be carbs
at 140lbs, there is no way you are using 300g protein

lightsarefallin
11-03-2010, 06:47 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I'll take everything into consideration and try to build myself another diet that might work better. I've started incorporating other fats besides peanut butter and almonds such as avocado and canola oil. I don't particularly like the taste so I will be buying olive oil, will have a teaspoon with dinner. I work out at 10 am monday, wednesday, and saturday and at around 3-4 pm on tuesday and friday.

So, on the morning workout days, I would have my oatmeal for breakfast, wait about an hour, go to the gym, have a post workout shake with 2 scoops whey and about 500ml gatorade, and then about 30-45 minutes later, have my lunch which would include a carb such as 6 oz of brown rice or potatoes. After that, should I consume no more carbs during the day? Maybe half an apple for dinner instead of another 6oz of potatoes? I might be losing so calories like this. Since I am 194 pounds, working out 5x a week intense, my maintenance is around 2900 calories. I'm trying to eat about 3200 a day now instead of something like 3400-3500 like I've been doing.

On off days, should I still have my oats for breakfast but then cut out carbs the rest of the day?