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View Full Version : micheal vick underrated



noracist
09-16-2010, 04:08 PM
people say he was pure garbage as a qb but look at his last season on the falcons

22 total tds 2474 passing yards 1039 rushing yards 9.4 yards a carry

so why where people saying he was garbage on the falcons?

bigcc
09-16-2010, 04:24 PM
people say he was pure garbage as a qb but look at his last season on the falcons

22 total tds 2474 passing yards 1039 rushing yards 9.4 yards a carry

so why where people saying he was garbage on the falcons?

In any season he attempted 100 or more passes, he has failed to hit a QB rating of 82, despite being the first pick of the draft he was taken

kethnaab
09-16-2010, 04:24 PM
he had like 19 turnovers and in the postseason he had 1 good game and was outright horrible in 4 others

kethnaab
09-16-2010, 04:34 PM
96 career TDs, 104 career interceptions/fumbles

ouch!

noracist
09-16-2010, 04:40 PM
In any season he attempted 100 or more passes, he has failed to hit a QB rating of 82, despite being the first pick of the draft he was taken

yeh but rushing stats dont go into qb ratings so you cant use that when your judging vick

bigcc
09-16-2010, 04:47 PM
yeh but rushing stats dont go into qb ratings so you cant use that when your judging vick


96 career TDs, 104 career interceptions/fumbles

ouch!

nuff said, and it's "you're" not "your"

FlexGunmetal
09-16-2010, 04:55 PM
People are saying he's garbage because he is a garbage running qb in a passing league.

kappakai
09-16-2010, 05:44 PM
No accuracy. Balls tend to hit the ground before they hit the receiver. Or he just overthrows everyone. Not the best decision making either because he uses his feet as a crutch. Look at that play this past week where he could have run the TD in instead throwing it in traffic to the back of the endzone. You combine his judgment with Reid's play calling and you got problems.

I'm hoping Desean can run down his bombs but it remains to be seen. Just like you can't judge Kolb on one half of play, you can't judge Vick either.

tmc.
09-16-2010, 05:46 PM
No accuracy. Balls tend to hit the ground before they hit the receiver. Or he just overthrows everyone. Not the best decision making either because he uses his feet as a crutch. Look at that play this past week where he could have run the TD in instead throwing it in traffic to the back of the endzone. You combine his judgment with Reid's play calling and you got problems.

I'm hoping Desean can run down his bombs but it remains to be seen. Just like you can't judge Kolb on one half of play, you can't judge Vick either.

He's no less accurate than McNabb and he did well for the Eagles.

FlexGunmetal
09-16-2010, 05:53 PM
He's no less accurate than McNabb and he did well for the Eagles.

lolololoolol

bbacn123
09-16-2010, 06:17 PM
Because we live in a world of haters and the misc is the epicenter of all that hate.

tmc.
09-16-2010, 06:21 PM
lolololoolol

check dem stats brother

Masstastic
09-16-2010, 06:24 PM
Because hes a video game QB who plays in the NFL.

Vick goes against everything the NFL expects out of the QB position. There will only be 1 player like him.

Big7Ben86
09-16-2010, 06:48 PM
not his fault he had bad receivers on ATL

o wait, i heard roddy white got pretty good after he left. matt ryan must be able to not under/overthrow him by a mile

i remember when mike vick said he was the best quarterback in the nfl

tmc.
09-16-2010, 06:52 PM
not his fault he had bad receivers on ATL

o wait, i heard roddy white got pretty good after he left. matt ryan must be able to not under/overthrow him by a mile

i remember when mike vick said he was the best quarterback in the nfl

yeah, young WRs definitely don't improve with experience - good call

roddy had a terrible case of the dropsies when he entered the league and who was the #2? fcking Michael Jenkins? lmao

bbacn123
09-16-2010, 07:07 PM
not his fault he had bad receivers on ATL

o wait, i heard roddy white got pretty good after he left. matt ryan must be able to not under/overthrow him by a mile

i remember when mike vick said he was the best quarterback in the nfl

brb streaking down the field wide open for an 80 yard TD with the ball dropped right over your shoulder only to have you bumble around and have it drop at your feet.


Unless you watched the Falcons games I would advise you all to STFU. The box scores aren't not adequate enough to judge Vick's talent (or lack of). The only person who caught his balls with consistency who wasn't a bumbling idiot when the ball came his way was Alge Crumpler. He was the only one.

What happened to Alge after Vick left him? That's right he went from being an 800 yard TE to a scrub he barely even gets on the field.

Vick had White for 1 year and White was just butterfingers every game. Congratulations, he eventually figured out how to stop dropping the ball. What about Michael Jenkins? That highly touted OSU WR who just flopped and has flopped ever since. How about Peerless Price? That piece of sh*t who's more likely to be seen working down at the docks than on a football field these days.

Ashlie Lelie....joke
Dez White....joke

Brian Finneran was decent at times but we all knew he was never gonna put up monster numbers. He just wasn't that type of player.

So where is Vick supposed to throw the ball? I'd really like to know.

RAMBO316
09-16-2010, 07:26 PM
brb streaking down the field wide open for an 80 yard TD with the ball dropped right over your shoulder only to have you bumble around and have it drop at your feet.


Unless you watched the Falcons games I would advise you all to STFU. The box scores aren't not adequate enough to judge Vick's talent (or lack of). The only person who caught his balls with consistency who wasn't a bumbling idiot when the ball came his way was Alge Crumpler. He was the only one.

What happened to Alge after Vick left him? That's right he went from being an 800 yard TE to a scrub he barely even gets on the field.

Vick had White for 1 year and White was just butterfingers every game. Congratulations, he eventually figured out how to stop dropping the ball. What about Michael Jenkins? That highly touted OSU WR who just flopped and has flopped ever since. How about Peerless Price? That piece of sh*t who's more likely to be seen working down at the docks than on a football field these days.

Ashlie Lelie....joke
Dez White....joke

Brian Finneran was decent at times but we all knew he was never gonna put up monster numbers. He just wasn't that type of player.

So where is Vick supposed to throw the ball? I'd really like to know.


im with this... roddy white couldnt catch the ball if vick handed it off to him he was terrible... if you didnt watch the falcons games every week like this guy said STFU because nobody could catch a pass vick threw to them it was awful.... vick is a good qb and i cant wait for him to start for philly.

Big7Ben86
09-16-2010, 07:28 PM
brb streaking down the field wide open for an 80 yard TD with the ball dropped right over your shoulder only to have you bumble around and have it drop at your feet.


Unless you watched the Falcons games I would advise you all to STFU. The box scores aren't not adequate enough to judge Vick's talent (or lack of). The only person who caught his balls with consistency who wasn't a bumbling idiot when the ball came his way was Alge Crumpler. He was the only one.

What happened to Alge after Vick left him? That's right he went from being an 800 yard TE to a scrub he barely even gets on the field.

Vick had White for 1 year and White was just butterfingers every game. Congratulations, he eventually figured out how to stop dropping the ball. What about Michael Jenkins? That highly touted OSU WR who just flopped and has flopped ever since. How about Peerless Price? That piece of sh*t who's more likely to be seen working down at the docks than on a football field these days.

Ashlie Lelie....joke
Dez White....joke

Brian Finneran was decent at times but we all knew he was never gonna put up monster numbers. He just wasn't that type of player.

So where is Vick supposed to throw the ball? I'd really like to know.

still vick will never go anywhere. this doesnt make up for his bad passed, terrible decisions, and turnovers. if you think vick is capable of taking the eagles anywhere u have issues.

kappakai
09-16-2010, 07:33 PM
He's no less accurate than McNabb and he did well for the Eagles.

McButter
4746 attempts
2816 completions
32873 yards
100 int
216 tds

59.33% completion rate
11.67 yds per completion
2.1% interception rate
4.55% TD rate
2.16 TD to INT ratio


McVick
1743 attempts
952 completions
11591 yards
52 ints
72 TD

54.6% completion rate
12.17 yards per completion
2.98% int rate
4.1% TD rate
1.38 TD to INT ratio

Dude. I like Vick and all but please STFU.

kappakai
09-16-2010, 07:39 PM
Where was Mcnabb supposed to throw the ball? James Thrash? Freddie Mitchell? Pinkston? Greg Lewis? The receivers mcNabb had were arguably on par with what Vick had He had one great year with a great receiver in TO. Dont get me wrong. I love seeing Vick play. But he doesnt hold a candle to McNabb. That said mcNabbs time in Philly was up.

Ralph Wiggum
09-16-2010, 08:06 PM
Vick is a running back with a cannon arm that he doesn't know how to use.

tmc.
09-16-2010, 08:10 PM
McButter
4746 attempts
2816 completions
32873 yards
100 int
216 tds

59.33% completion rate
11.67 yds per completion
2.1% interception rate
4.55% TD rate
2.16 TD to INT ratio


McVick
1743 attempts
952 completions
11591 yards
52 ints
72 TD

54.6% completion rate
12.17 yards per completion
2.98% int rate
4.1% TD rate
1.38 TD to INT ratio

Dude. I like Vick and all but please STFU.

and that's including all of the screen passes McNabb threw to Westbrook

McNabb has never been accurate, he overthrows and throws more balls into the ground than any QB in the league. Real talk.

bbacn123
09-16-2010, 08:18 PM
still vick will never go anywhere. this doesnt make up for his bad passed, terrible decisions, and turnovers. if you think vick is capable of taking the eagles anywhere u have issues.

Nah dog we just got a preview of what Vick can do when he has an O-Line that gives him time and receivers that catch his balls. And he didn't even play the whole game bro. Sh*t is basically unfair unless we spot teams 3 TDs on him every game with the talent that surrounds him in Philly.

Big7Ben86
09-16-2010, 08:21 PM
Nah dog we just got a preview of what Vick can do when he has an O-Line that gives him time and receivers that catch his balls. And he didn't even play the whole game bro. Sh*t is basically unfair unless we spot teams 3 TDs on him every game with the talent that surrounds him in Philly.


he did that same **** in atlanta, then everyone figured him out. yes he made a few nice plays, but maclin saved him on that TD pass, idk wat he was thinkin trying to jam the ball into desean in the endzone. and the 4th and 1 at the end of the game was vintage vick.

urintrouble
09-16-2010, 08:27 PM
he gon' die dis week. WE COMINNNNNNNNNNNN

WheyneNewton
09-16-2010, 08:30 PM
Vick will always be the poor man's Pat White, who will revolutionize the wildcast QB position (when he comes back to the NFL)

SpiderSense
09-16-2010, 08:32 PM
96 career TDs, 104 career interceptions/fumbles

ouch!

Eh that stat's kind of deceptive.

Is he not gonna fumble running for over 1000 yards?

But the point is he runs for over 1000 yards.

I don't like when people try to use a conventional yardstick to measure the most unconventional (but effective) QB to play in the NFL.

tmc.
09-16-2010, 08:36 PM
"A 38-28-1 record as a starter plus two playoff victories should not be overlooked." - about Mike Vick

That's better than the official GOAT of the Sports section, Aaron Rodgers, so far, just sayin

iamgenus
09-16-2010, 08:36 PM
Vick is an exciting player...but not a good qb.

He has a gun and runs like a receiver. His accuracy isn't very good though and he runs too much instead of waiting for things to open up in the passing game.

21Classic
09-16-2010, 08:42 PM
I can never do it.

i dont mind if the rest of the world moves on.


**** that nigra

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/18307_12_12_2009_11_39_09_AM_-_pit-bull-puppy-7431651.jpg

bbacn123
09-16-2010, 08:45 PM
"A 38-28-1 record as a starter plus two playoff victories should not be overlooked." - about Mike Vick

That's better than the official GOAT of the Sports section, Aaron Rodgers, so far, just sayin

Word, people don't want to recognize this sh*t though. The Falcons were a 4-12 team without Vick and a playoff contender with Vick

/thread.

kappakai
09-16-2010, 09:00 PM
Word, people don't want to recognize this sh*t though. The Falcons were a 4-12 team without Vick and a playoff contender with Vick

/thread.

True true. Until, to tmc's point, he shat the bed against the eagles. 20-3 and 27-10. Eagles knew how to contain mike and make him beat them with his arm. They took his legs out from underneath him and he was useless. What's different now?

I don't think he's underrated. He's rated right where he should be. A decent qb with speed, a cannon of an arm who gets flushed out of the pocket and can make bad decisions. He can make teams better as we saw just last week but let's not make him out to be better than he is.

sellihca
09-16-2010, 09:34 PM
vick underrated? we still in 2005 cuzz? Mike Vick is done.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 04:49 AM
He is still butthurt from his prison days!

AriGhold
09-17-2010, 05:16 AM
Hey Vick haters there is no point to argue with these guys. Just let his play on the field speak for itself. We all know the Eagles aren't winning too many games with him at QB.

CCAurora
09-17-2010, 06:19 AM
vick underrated? we still in 2005 cuzz? Mike Vick is done.

Right, that's why he looked phenomenal on the ground AND through the air last week, albeit against Green Bay's defense, but still!

If you look at TOTAL yardage, he was just as good as many QB's why get ranked higher. Fans are conditioned to ignore QB's rushing yards, RB's receiving yards, etc... which is asinine.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 06:43 AM
Hey Vick haters there is no point to argue with these guys. Just let his play on the field speak for itself. We all know the Eagles aren't winning too many games with him at QB.

Hey Vick haters. Im just fine letting Vick's play on the field speak for itself. So far he seems to win far more games as a starting QB than he loses. But we all know you'll just continue to live in denial regardless.

milkman04
09-17-2010, 07:17 AM
Vick will always be the poor man's Pat White, who will revolutionize the wildcast QB position (when he comes back to the NFL)

lmao

ur too funny

BigDFan24
09-17-2010, 08:48 AM
People can hate on Vick all they want. The fact of the matter is he carried a sorry ass Atlanta team to the NFC title game. Gotta give him props for pulling that off.

But Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett were a badass combo together, I have to say that.

97srad750
09-17-2010, 09:10 AM
People can hate on Vick all they want. The fact of the matter is he carried a sorry ass Atlanta team to the NFC title game. Gotta give him props for pulling that off.

But Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett were a badass combo together, I have to say that.

That team wasn't sorry. That was the formula in the league. A good running game and a good defense. And they had both. That was when the league was a running league.

mag1c
09-17-2010, 09:14 AM
vick's fumble per game ratio isn't that much higher than favre or brees, and those 2 don't even run the ball.

he's actually pretty good. much better than kolb.

thek1d
09-17-2010, 09:25 AM
not this **** again


brb streaking down the field wide open for an 80 yard TD with the ball dropped right over your shoulder only to have you bumble around and have it drop at your feet.


Unless you watched the Falcons games I would advise you all to STFU. The box scores aren't not adequate enough to judge Vick's talent (or lack of). The only person who caught his balls with consistency who wasn't a bumbling idiot when the ball came his way was Alge Crumpler. He was the only one.

What happened to Alge after Vick left him? That's right he went from being an 800 yard TE to a scrub he barely even gets on the field.

Vick had White for 1 year and White was just butterfingers every game. Congratulations, he eventually figured out how to stop dropping the ball. What about Michael Jenkins? That highly touted OSU WR who just flopped and has flopped ever since. How about Peerless Price? That piece of sh*t who's more likely to be seen working down at the docks than on a football field these days.

Ashlie Lelie....joke
Dez White....joke

Brian Finneran was decent at times but we all knew he was never gonna put up monster numbers. He just wasn't that type of player.

So where is Vick supposed to throw the ball? I'd really like to know.

Tom Brady won 3 super bowls with guys like Troy Brown, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Deion Branch, and David Givens. Good quarterbacks make their receivers better.

Alge Crumpler was a big part of Chris Johnson's record breaking year last year. Also, I believe he had major surgery which limited him in the passing game. This year he's starting for the Patriots... do you watch football?


Nah dog we just got a preview of what Vick can do when he has an O-Line that gives him time and receivers that catch his balls. And he didn't even play the whole game bro. Sh*t is basically unfair unless we spot teams 3 TDs on him every game with the talent that surrounds him in Philly.

No, you got a preview of what Vick can do when he plays against a defense that gameplanned for a pocket passer.


Vick will always be the poor man's Pat White, who will revolutionize the wildcast QB position (when he comes back to the NFL)

You got that backwards bro. I don't think Vick is a great quarterback, but he's leaps and bounds better than Pat White. Which is why Vick is still in the league whereas White is not.


Eh that stat's kind of deceptive.

Is he not gonna fumble running for over 1000 yards?

But the point is he runs for over 1000 yards.

I don't like when people try to use a conventional yardstick to measure the most unconventional (but effective) QB to play in the NFL.

lol wat


People can hate on Vick all they want. The fact of the matter is he carried a sorry ass Atlanta team to the NFC title game. Gotta give him props for pulling that off.

But Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett were a badass combo together, I have to say that.

taken from this post yesterday:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=548057663&postcount=25


lol wat

In 2002 the Falcons were 4th in rushing and 23rd in passing. They also had the 10th ranked scoring defense.

In 2004 the Falcons were 1st in rushing and 30th in passing. Their defense was slightly above average at 14.

But hey... don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. I mean, it was REALLY exciting to watch Vick earn that 46.5 passer rating and only rush for 26 yards in the '06 loss to Philly. And I think we all remember where we were the day that Vick lit up the scoreboard with his 58.4 passer rating and 30 rushing yards.

With Vick behind center you basically have an additional running back that can sometimes throw the ball. Hence his 84.5 passer rating and 56% completion percentage, barely 2% points higher than Mark Sanchez last season.

lol

Big7Ben86
09-17-2010, 09:30 AM
u guys are idiots if you honestly think vick was a good qb before his suspension

brb 1 good game with the eagles and its "omg vicks a top qb again"

go watch tennis

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 09:36 AM
No, you got a preview of what Vick can do when he plays against a defense that gameplanned for a pocket passer.




What a weak ass f*cking excuse.

Oh no we gameplanned for Kolb and got Vick!! If sh*t was that easy then the Titans should just sit Vince Yound and start some pocket passer to surprise their opponents. After all the other team would have gameplanned for Vince Young.....right????

Idiot

tmc.
09-17-2010, 09:52 AM
What a weak ass f*cking excuse.

Oh no we gameplanned for Kolb and got Vick!! If sh*t was that easy then the Titans should just sit Vince Yound and start some pocket passer to surprise their opponents. After all the other team would have gameplanned for Vince Young.....right????

Idiot

haters gonna hate brother, they don't take too kindly to black QBs, we'll laugh when Vick is the MVP of Week 2

noracist
09-17-2010, 09:56 AM
what i dont get is why people fail to bring up vicks rushings stats he had 1000 yards on 9 yards per carry that has to be some sort of record . you have to look at it this way atlanta was by far one of the best running teams because of vick. vick running opened up holes for dunn cause the de or the lb had to contain on almost every play. vick made his rbs better then what they where imo.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 10:04 AM
I've said it before, and now I must say it again. All Great QB's learn over the years how to become a better QB. Unfortunately for Vick he still looks to run first pass second. Not saying that he doesn't have a Cannon for an arm which he does, but that he cannot pass fo Sh!t.

Anytime you watch Vick and the pocket is getting ready to collapse you know he is going to try to take off and gain maybe ten yards instead of throwing for maybe 20 or more. Vick will never be great because all he does is run, run, run. You would think that by now he would have learned how to throw first, run second but no he hasn't. Still butthurt from the prison yard!

97srad750
09-17-2010, 10:07 AM
haters gonna hate brother, they don't take too kindly to black QBs,

yeah that has to be it

It couldn't be that people legit don't think he's underrated. It has to be skin color

tmc.
09-17-2010, 10:11 AM
yeah that has to be it

It couldn't be that people legit don't think he's underrated. It has to be skin color

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq214/P-manPic/DatsRacist.gif

Liangtastic
09-17-2010, 10:22 AM
the 4th and 1 at the end of the game was vintage vick.


Or vintage Reid/Mornhinweg

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 10:50 AM
yeah that has to be it

It couldn't be that people legit don't think he's underrated. It has to be skin color

You cant be serious.

DeseanJackson
09-17-2010, 10:58 AM
haters gon' hate

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 11:13 AM
haters gonna hate brother, they don't take too kindly to black QBs, we'll laugh when Vick is the MVP of Week 2

which is why we all said that white quarterback mcnabb > vick. cause we don't like black qbs.

moran.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 11:19 AM
which is why we all said that white quarterback mcnabb > vick. cause we don't like black qbs.

moran.

People dont like black QB's in the NFL. Thats not some theory, its truth.

NFL will lose a lot of its fanbase if the league reverted to a HS/College style system where the best athlete(95% of the time black) is at QB running the spread offense.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
Can c where this thread is heading

Slowly backs away ever so gently
Opens door
Contacts NAACP and PETA

thek1d
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
What a weak ass f*cking excuse.

Oh no we gameplanned for Kolb and got Vick!! If sh*t was that easy then the Titans should just sit Vince Yound and start some pocket passer to surprise their opponents. After all the other team would have gameplanned for Vince Young.....right????

Idiot

Yeah, you're right. Gameplanning is the same for a pocket passer as it is for a scrambling quarterback.

Idiot.

DeseanJackson
09-17-2010, 11:27 AM
Yeah, you're right. Gameplanning is the same for a pocket passer as it is for a scrambling quarterback.

Idiot.

Jakes on the Packers.

Big7Ben86
09-17-2010, 11:29 AM
People dont like black QB's in the NFL. Thats not some theory, its truth.

NFL will lose a lot of its fanbase if the league reverted to a HS/College style system where the best athlete(95% of the time black) is at QB running the spread offense.

its not that they dont like them, they are not good usually.

they have bad mechanics, and have too big of ego's to play other positions.

look at tim tebow. goes to the nfl and has to completely switch his motions to have a shot in the nfl.

97srad750
09-17-2010, 11:37 AM
You cant be serious.

What would lead you to believe I wasn't

You can crown him as underrated, I don't

97srad750
09-17-2010, 11:38 AM
People dont like black QB's in the NFL. Thats not some theory, its truth.

NFL will lose a lot of its fanbase if the league reverted to a HS/College style system where the best athlete(95% of the time black) is at QB running the spread offense.

I can you say it isn't a theory, and then follow if with a what if scenario

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 11:38 AM
its not that they dont like them, they are not good usually.

they have bad mechanics, and have too big of ego's to play other positions.

look at tim tebow. goes to the nfl and has to completely switch his motions to have a shot in the nfl.

Wrong. The NFL will never change to a Spread system. NFL never adopted the Option either despite it being still popularly run into the early 80's in college football.

Its not that spread QB's are bad. They just have a longer development to adjust to the NFL game, and most of them aren't good enough to play another position after playing QB their whole life.

Look at Vick. If Vick got to Va Tech and was moved to WR he'd been a Desean Jackson/Steve Smith type of player by now.

5x10
09-17-2010, 11:38 AM
People dont like black QB's in the NFL. Thats not some theory, its truth.

NFL will lose a lot of its fanbase if the league reverted to a HS/College style system where the best athlete(95% of the time black) is at QB running the spread offense.

bs, its that there have been a few successful black drop back passers in the nfl
people liked(pre dog fighting) vick because he is exciting and wins, people like winners

warren moon was a great passer and if there were more like him, i have no doubt they would be well liked

the NFL wont move back to that system because of the level of athlete, its not feasible
options dont work in the NFL because of the speed of the defenses, these are pros, not college kids

97srad750
09-17-2010, 11:39 AM
Look at Vick. If Vick got to Va Tech and was moved to WR he'd been a Desean Jackson/Steve Smith type of player by now.

Based on what

Big7Ben86
09-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Wrong. The NFL will never change to a Spread system. NFL never adopted the Option either despite it being still popularly run into the early 80's in college football.

Its not that spread QB's are bad. They just have a longer development to adjust to the NFL game, and most of them aren't good enough to play another position after playing QB their whole life.

Look at Vick. If Vick got to Va Tech and was moved to WR he'd been a Desean Jackson/Steve Smith type of player by now.

imagine michael vick with 4 wide against the steelers or jets defense

fail.

black qbs are 95% of the time not good enough to play qb in the nfl at a high level, which is why they were good in college and not the nfl

most should be wr's, including terrelle pryor.

5x10
09-17-2010, 11:45 AM
Wrong. The NFL will never change to a Spread system. NFL never adopted the Option either despite it being still popularly run into the early 80's in college football.

Its not that spread QB's are bad. They just have a longer development to adjust to the NFL game, and most of them aren't good enough to play another position after playing QB their whole life.

Look at Vick. If Vick got to Va Tech and was moved to WR he'd been a Desean Jackson/Steve Smith type of player by now.

i dont get your arguement
i would bet that 80-90% of the league is black
NFL is now at its ALL TIME high in terms of ratings, slaughters any other sport

are you saying that the viewing audience would somehow decrease if there were more black drop back passers in the nfl?
or, are you saying the league is racist because it doesnt run a college type offense?

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 11:47 AM
44 superbowls.

Only one black superbowl winning QB, jus sayin (no racist)

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 11:48 AM
44 superbowls.

Only one black superbowl winning QB, jus sayin (no racist)

i don't think it has anything really to do with blacks and their skills at QB not winning the superbowl. there just haven't been that many black QBs to begin with.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 11:50 AM
bs, its that there have been a few successful black drop back passers in the nfl
Who?


warren moon was a great passer and if there were more like him, i have no doubt they would be well liked

Thats the thing, there aren't any more like them because of the conscious effort to move black athletes to other positions instead of QB. QB's arent born brah. They're developed.

Its become a thing to the point where people have accepted it as being the way things should be.

Blacks are supposed to play RB/WR. Whites are supposed to play QB.


the NFL wont move back to that system because of the level of athlete, its not feasible
options dont work in the NFL because of the speed of the defenses, these are pros, not college kids

False as proven previous times in college football. The level of the athlete on defense is irrelevant if the level of athlete on offense matches or is superior.

A team running the spread in the NFL would have equal if not more superior athletes than the defense. These are pros, not college kids.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 11:52 AM
i don't think it has anything really to do with blacks and their skills at QB not winning the superbowl. there just haven't been that many black QBs to begin with.

This.

Actually a lot of guys who play WR/DB/RB in the NFL actually are former college/HS QB's.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 11:55 AM
i don't think it has anything really to do with blacks and their skills at QB not winning the superbowl. there just haven't been that many black QBs to begin with.

I agree also, just dont think a "scrambling QB" can hold a torch to a "pocket passing QB". History has showed that those QB's who remain in the pocket instead of running for yardage tend to win more games (superbowls)! Vick will never win the big show because he runs first, passes second!

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 11:55 AM
Yeah, you're right. Gameplanning is the same for a pocket passer as it is for a scrambling quarterback.

Idiot.

Then why are the Titans not tricking everyone and benching Young and playing some back-up pocket passer?

According to you the other team would be unprepared and fail miserably. That's essentially why you think Vick was successful last week....the other team wasn't prepared for his style, right?

So apparently the Titans have some trick weapon they could be using by telling everyone they're starting a scrambler and then starting some back-up pocket passer instead (I don't even know who their back-up would be, but according to you the opponent would be soooo confused by the situation they would never be able to recover from their original gameplan and it doesnt even matter who their back-up is)

That's a f*cking joke and you're a dumbass. End of discussion.

Big7Ben86
09-17-2010, 11:56 AM
This.

Actually a lot of guys who play WR/DB/RB in the NFL actually are former college/HS QB's.

and superbowl MVP's.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 11:57 AM
i dont get your arguement
i would bet that 80-90% of the league is black
NFL is now at its ALL TIME high in terms of ratings, slaughters any other sport

The 10 most popular players in the NFL are all white QB's. The 10 best players in the NFL are all not QB's.

Roger Goodell has made the conscious effort to showcase the league around the QB position, rather than skill positions. Im not saying race is involved, but that is what has made the league more popular now. Obviously that was entirely different under Tagliabue. Pull up the highest selling jerseys of 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997 just to see what I'm talking about.

You should have realized this in these past few NFL Drafts.

Rams take Bradford, when Suh was clearly the best player by far in the Draft.
Lions take Stafford, when Curry was clearly the best player by far in the Draft.
Raiders take Fatass, when Johnson/Peterson were clearly the best players by far in the Draft.



are you saying that the viewing audience would somehow decrease if there were more black drop back passers in the nfl?


Yes.

The same thing happened with the NBA. If a league gets too dominated by 1 race, fans will begin to stop watching. Lets be reality.

5x10
09-17-2010, 12:01 PM
Thats the thing, there aren't any more like them because of the conscious effort to move black athletes to other positions instead of QB. QB's arent born brah. They're developed.

Its become a thing to the point where people have accepted it as being the way things should be.

Blacks are supposed to play RB/WR. Whites are supposed to play QB.

i guarantee you there is not a nationwide effort by coaches to keep big armed black kids at other positions so that whites can have that spot, thats lala land

coaches are going to put the player in that wins the game and executes his gameplan the best

both high school and college coaches have way too much money on the line to worry about any of their own racial agendas,
and at a football level(if youve played it), you would know that when you workout together, sweat and bleed together, a bond develops much deeper than any "racial" profiling would allow and that includes the coaches
its like a family


The 10 most popular players in the NFL are all white QB's. The 10 best players in the NFL are all not QB's.

Roger Goodell has made the conscious effort to showcase the league around the QB position, rather than skill positions. Im not saying race is involved, but that is what has made the league more popular now. Obviously that was entirely different under Tagliabue. Pull up the highest selling jerseys of 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997 just to see what I'm talking about.

You should have realized this in these past few NFL Drafts.

Rams take Bradford, when Suh was clearly the best player by far in the Draft.
Lions take Stafford, when Curry was clearly the best player by far in the Draft.
Raiders take Fatass, when Johnson/Peterson were clearly the best players by far in the Draft.



Yes.

The same thing happened with the NBA. If a league gets too dominated by 1 race, fans will begin to stop watching. Lets be reality.
wow, dont you think the fact that the NFL is a passing league and in most cases, you need a big time qb to win the big game, makes a MUCH deeper impact than some notion that only whites can play qb?

dont you know the league was a RUNNING league in the 90s, hence the jersey sales

the NFL is dominated by blacks, why arent the rating declining?

your way off bro

Alec Trevelyan
09-17-2010, 12:04 PM
brb streaking down the field wide open for an 80 yard TD with the ball dropped right over your shoulder only to have you bumble around and have it drop at your feet.


Unless you watched the Falcons games I would advise you all to STFU. The box scores aren't not adequate enough to judge Vick's talent (or lack of). The only person who caught his balls with consistency who wasn't a bumbling idiot when the ball came his way was Alge Crumpler. He was the only one.

What happened to Alge after Vick left him? That's right he went from being an 800 yard TE to a scrub he barely even gets on the field.

Vick had White for 1 year and White was just butterfingers every game. Congratulations, he eventually figured out how to stop dropping the ball. What about Michael Jenkins? That highly touted OSU WR who just flopped and has flopped ever since. How about Peerless Price? That piece of sh*t who's more likely to be seen working down at the docks than on a football field these days.

Ashlie Lelie....joke
Dez White....joke

Brian Finneran was decent at times but we all knew he was never gonna put up monster numbers. He just wasn't that type of player.

So where is Vick supposed to throw the ball? I'd really like to know.

I have a member of my family that is a huge Falcons fan. He use to tell me the same things bro....and yeah I felt bad for him.

Go G-Men!

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 12:04 PM
I agree also, just dont think a "scrambling QB" can hold a torch to a "pocket passing QB". History has showed that those QB's who remain in the pocket instead of running for yardage tend to win more games (superbowls)! Vick will never win the big show because he runs first, passes second!

Yah. Someone else mentioned that the NFL defense is much faster than in college. The scrambling running college QB is down one weapon when he gets to the NFL. McNabb made the transition from a running QB to a pocket passer. Vick hasn't done that yet. It's also why some say that Reggie Bush hasn't done as well in the NFL. He's no longer the fastest player on the field and he can't elude the defense like he did in college. Again, look at what Jim Johnson did to Vick in those playoff games. Take away his running game and he's close to useless.

Put your fastest players at WR and let the QB throw to them.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:06 PM
I agree also, just dont think a "scrambling QB" can hold a torch to a "pocket passing QB". History has showed that those QB's who remain in the pocket instead of running for yardage tend to win more games (superbowls)! Vick will never win the big show because he runs first, passes second!

1. What is the excuse for 98% of Pocket Passers who finish their careers never accomplishing more than Vick?

2. In Philly, Reid and his staff have made sure Vick learns how to get comfortable in the pocket. Reid said he wanted Vick to throw 1st, run 2nd. Who knows if it will work, but you can tell from his game against Green Bay that he isn't doing the same thing he did in Atlanta. He runs the play intended instead of playing "backyard football" by trying to make a play.

3. Vick didnt have any talent in Atlanta around him. Warrick Dunn was good, but he was past his prime then. He turned guys like Crumpler & the tall white guy Finneran into productive targets because they actually could catch the ball.

ezra76
09-17-2010, 12:14 PM
He's still got the legs. Must admit, Vick/Jackson opens up a lot of highlight reel potential. Whether that will translate into to wins, not sure.

I know after last week, Philly has a dilemna and they'd better be careful. If they push Kolb and he continues to suck, they'll lose the fans and the lockerroom really quick. Kolb has a pretty short shelf life before he'll get run out of town with the torches and pitchforks. Andy Reid better be careful as well. If he puts all his chips on Kolb, his job will get thrown in the mix as well.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 12:17 PM
hard to say whether vick will sit in the pocket or not. it was only one half of a game and as much as people like to say the packers didn't game plan for vick, i doubt reid and marty game planned for him either. i don't think he got much time, if any, with the first team. the fact that he did as well as he did shows how good he can be at improvising, and that's mostly with his feet. i don't know if we'll be able to ascertain any more this sunday, since its the lions, but it's likely vick will get one more game next week as well. he's got some weapons around him now, in celek, desean, maclin and avant. the o-line isn't playing that well though. they collapsed a ton around kolb last week, jackson is out for the season, and that caveman clay matthews was a frigging monster. both celek and shady have got to learn how to block better, otherwise, we'll see vick having to run more.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:18 PM
As for the Scramble vs. Pocket Passer comparison, those of you claiming that Scrambler's never win and that Pocket Passer are more successful.....ever stop to think about why Pocket Passers "win" and Scrambler's "lose"?

Answer? There's a billion pocket passers. When you have a bag full of M&Ms and 20 of them are red and two of them are green, when you pull one out which is more likely to occur?

No sh*t pocket passers are winning SBs and Scrambler's have yet to win. The ratio is considerably lopsided. There's just as many pocket passers losing too. it's a ridiculous attempt to slight scramblers to say none of the two or three who have stepped on the field have won yet.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 12:19 PM
He's still got the legs. Must admit, Vick/Jackson opens up a lot of highlight reel potential. Whether that will translate into to wins, not sure.

I know after last week, Philly has a dilemna and they'd better be careful. If they push Kolb and he continues to suck, they'll lose the fans and the lockerroom really quick. Kolb has a pretty short shelf life before he'll get run out of town with the torches and pitchforks. Andy Reid better be careful as well. If he puts all his chips on Kolb, his job will get thrown in the mix as well.

kolb's got a short shelf life regardless. his contract is only through 2011. i don't think the eagles office is completely sold on him yet either.

reid is stubborn, and i doubt his ability to learn and be flexible. that said, they love him in philly for the most part. i think he survives even if kolb doesn't.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:20 PM
i guarantee you there is not a nationwide effort by coaches to keep big armed black kids at other positions so that whites can have that spot, thats lala land

coaches are going to put the player in that wins the game and executes his gameplan the best

both high school and college coaches have way too much money on the line to worry about any of their own racial agendas,
and at a football level(if youve played it), you would know that when you workout together, sweat and bleed together, a bond develops much deeper than any "racial" profiling would allow and that includes the coaches
its like a family

The lack of development to turn black athletes into QB's is evident. Same applies to using white athletes at CB. They move them to MLB or Safety to be the "Quarterback of the Defense". There are always exceptions though.

I've seen this with my own eyes. Watched how guys got moved to certain positions on the team. Know a 6'3 170lb black kid who can throw an accurate 50-55 yard spiral with ease. He now plays CB in college.

With so many African Americans playing football, why are there so few black QB's who are pocket passers? Lack of development. Blacks and Whites truly believe that QB isn't a position for blacks in the NFL. Just stating facts.



wow, dont you think the fact that the NFL is a passing league and in most cases, you need a big time qb to win the big game, makes a MUCH deeper impact than some notion that only whites can play qb?

If the NFL is a passing league, it would bring the notion of there being a system QB. Can you plug Chase Daniel into Drew Brees' spot and he matches his stats? What about Sorgi for Manning? Nope. The league is built around spreading the field and avoiding the blitz from 3-4 defenses(more now than ever before in the NFL). Its a reactionary league.


dont you know the league was a RUNNING league in the 90s, hence the jersey sales
Irrelevant. Sanders, Rice, Irvin, White, and Thomas aren't RB's.


the NFL is dominated by blacks, why arent the rating declining?

It is not dominated by blacks. African Americans make up only 65% of the NFL.

The NFL promotes the myth that anyone can be successful at football if they play it. For the majority of the population(whites) to see people who look like them playing the game, it keeps them interested in the sport and a false sense of confidence that they could be successful too. If the NFL became "athlete crazy" and the league revolved solely over athletic ability at each position, and 29 of the 32 starting QB's in the NFL were black. The majority of the fanbase would be turned off to it because they would believe they couldn't be successful at the game, because people who dont look like them appear to be better athletes. NFL wants to avoid this.


This is what has caused the lack of interest by Whites into the NBA, and the lack of interest by Blacks into the MLB. 40 years ago it was completely different.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:22 PM
As for the Scramble vs. Pocket Passer comparison, those of you claiming that Scrambler's never win and that Pocket Passer are more successful.....ever stop to think about why Pocket Passers "win" and Scrambler's "lose"?

Answer? There's a billion pocket passers. When you have a bag full of M&Ms and 20 of them are red and two of them are green, when you pull one out which is more likely to occur?

No sh*t pocket passers are winning SBs and Scrambler's have yet to win. The ratio is considerably lopsided. There's just as many pocket passers losing too. it's a ridiculous attempt to slight scramblers to say none of the two or three who have stepped on the field have won yet.

The ratio is lopsided because any smart or successfull QB has to convert to becoming a pocket passer or they dont amount to sh!t in the NFL, so yes that is y there will always be more pocket passers!

4th and 1, Vick runs up the middle and is stuffed game over! It's called passing, he should try it.

Should Vick the quick ever decide to stop being a RB and conform himself into a QB then he may do some damage, doubtful but anyway.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 12:22 PM
let's see what happens when denard robinson gets in the league.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:23 PM
As for the Scramble vs. Pocket Passer comparison, those of you claiming that Scrambler's never win and that Pocket Passer are more successful.....ever stop to think about why Pocket Passers "win" and Scrambler's "lose"?

Answer? There's a billion pocket passers. When you have a bag full of M&Ms and 20 of them are red and two of them are green, when you pull one out which is more likely to occur?

No sh*t pocket passers are winning SBs and Scrambler's have yet to win. The ratio is considerably lopsided. There's just as many pocket passers losing too. it's a ridiculous attempt to slight scramblers to say none of the two or three who have stepped on the field have won yet.

This.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:25 PM
let's see what happens when denard robinson gets in the league.

Eric Crouch.
Pat White.
Tommie Frazier.

Robinson picked Michigan because he wants to be a QB, and RR would let him.

If he cant be a NFL QB, he probably would end up returning kicks or something.

thek1d
09-17-2010, 12:25 PM
Then why are the Titans not tricking everyone and benching Young and playing some back-up pocket passer?

According to you the other team would be unprepared and fail miserably. That's essentially why you think Vick was successful last week....the other team wasn't prepared for his style, right?

So apparently the Titans have some trick weapon they could be using by telling everyone they're starting a scrambler and then starting some back-up pocket passer instead (I don't even know who their back-up would be, but according to you the opponent would be soooo confused by the situation they would never be able to recover from their original gameplan and it doesnt even matter who their back-up is)

That's a f*cking joke and you're a dumbass. End of discussion.

your anology fails about as hard as your argument

Last year, with Kerry Collins as Tennessee's QB, the Titants started the season 0-6. After the bye week they put Vince in as the starter and they won 8 games. And before you say Kerry Collins sucks, they were 13-3 the year before.

By benching a scrambler for a pocket passer, you no longer have to consider the running threat from the QB. Not sure what is so difficult for you to grasp by this concept...


let's see what happens when denard robinson gets in the league.

He will be converted to a WR.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
The ratio is lopsided because any smart or successfull QB has to convert to becoming a pocket passer or they dont amount to sh!t in the NFL, so yes that is y there will always be more pocket passers!

4th and 1, Vick runs up the middle and is stuffed game over! It's called passing, he should try it.

Should Vick the quick ever decide to stop being a RB and conform himself into a QB then he may do some damage, doubtful but anyway.

Vick called that play? That was Andy Reid/Lion Fail's call.

Vick has never ran up the middle in his life, thats how you should know that was a bad play. Vick always runs to the outside because he has the greatest lateral agility of any QB, considering he can hit full speed without running in a straight line.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Vick called that play? That was Andy Reid/Lion Fail's call.

Vick has never ran up the middle in his life, thats how you should know that was a bad play. Vick always runs to the outside because he has the greatest lateral agility of any QB, considering he can hit full speed without running in a straight line.

Does it matter? The dumb fak still RAN and got stuffed. Case in point they called a running play for Vick because they know all he is good for is running the ball. Why did they not call a play action or bootleg for Vick, because they have no faith in his passing game.

BRB making Chris Johnson my starting QB!

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:31 PM
The ratio is lopsided because any smart or successfull QB has to convert to becoming a pocket passer or they dont amount to sh!t in the NFL, so yes that is y there will always be more pocket passers!

4th and 1, Vick runs up the middle and is stuffed game over! It's called passing, he should try it.

Should Vick the quick ever decide to stop being a RB and conform himself into a QB then he may do some damage, doubtful but anyway.

Wrong. More people are geared toward being pocket passers, which leads to more good pocket passers in each level, which leads to more successful pocket passers in the NFL.

For every successful pocket passer in the NFL how many failed miserably? The problem is with scramblers there's already so very few that the odds of having truly great ones to succeed at such a high level like the NFL is even more scarce.

If I was to give you 49 states to groom high school kids for 1 NFL team and then give you the last state to groom high school kids for a 2nd NFL team which team would be more successful do you think?

You have more resources, thus giving you a greater chance that SOME of them turn out to be pretty damn good.



That's how it is with pocket and scramble. Pocket is the traditional approach, so you have a billion more using that way and are more likely to groom talent to play in the NFL. Far more resources at the pocket passers disposal.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 12:31 PM
Does it matter? The dumb fak still RAN and got stuffed. Case in point they called a running play for Vick because they know all he is good for is running the ball. Why did they not call a play action or bootleg for Vick, because they have no faith in his passing game.

BRB making Chris Johnson my starting QB!

Celek missed the block on Clay Matthews and Shady still can't block.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:32 PM
your anology fails about as hard as your argument

Last year, with Kerry Collins as Tennessee's QB, the Titants started the season 0-6. After the bye week they put Vince in as the starter and they won 8 games. And before you say Kerry Collins sucks, they were 13-3 the year before.

By benching a scrambler for a pocket passer, you no longer have to consider the running threat from the QB. Not sure what is so difficult for you to grasp by this concept...

1. Who cares if Kerry Collins led the Titans to 13-3. He was playing like pure **** when the Titans started the season. Thats Collins' career in a nutshell. Plays great 1 season, fails to live up to the same expectations the following year, disappears, and plays great once again. If Collins had consistency he'd be a future Hall of Famer. His current stats are crazy for a fringe backup/starter his whole career.

2. What threat of Vince Young running? Not sure if you've noticed but he doesn't run as much anymore to preserve himself.



He will be converted to a WR.

Only if he accepts that as his fate.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:34 PM
your anology fails about as hard as your argument

Last year, with Kerry Collins as Tennessee's QB, the Titants started the season 0-6. After the bye week they put Vince in as the starter and they won 8 games. And before you say Kerry Collins sucks, they were 13-3 the year before.

By benching a scrambler for a pocket passer, you no longer have to consider the running threat from the QB. Not sure what is so difficult for you to grasp by this concept...



He will be converted to a WR.

I don't get it. If Vick only succeeded because there was no game plan for his style, why wouldn't a pocket passer succeed if the gameplan was designed for a scrambler's style?

I mean you said Vick was only successful because they didn't game plan for him....right? Or am I missing something. So now it wouldn't work if the defense gameplanned for Vince Young and got a pocket passer instead?

I just wanna clear your retarded theory up because everyone in here thinks you're stupid right now.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:35 PM
Does it matter? The dumb fak still RAN and got stuffed. Case in point they called a running play for Vick because they know all he is good for is running the ball. Why did they not call a play action or bootleg for Vick, because they have no faith in his passing game.


That was not his play call. That was Andy Reid/Lion Fail's call. Why would a backup tell his coach he wants to run a different play?

Are you serious brah? Vick's at his best on the bootleg and play action lmfao

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Wrong. More people are geared toward being pocket passers, which leads to more good pocket passers in each level, which leads to more successful pocket passers in the NFL.

For every successful pocket passer in the NFL how many failed miserably? The problem is with scramblers there's already so very few that the odds of having truly great ones to succeed at such a high level like the NFL is even more scarce.

If I was to give you 49 states to groom high school kids for 1 NFL team and then give you the last state to groom high school kids for a 2nd NFL team which team would be more successful do you think?

You have more resources, thus giving you a greater chance that SOME of them turn out to be pretty damn good.



That's how it is with pocket and scramble. Pocket is the traditional approach, so you have a billion more using that way and are more likely to groom talent to play in the NFL. Far more resources at the pocket passers disposal.

So very few scrambling QB's? Here is three college football teams off the top of my head that run a scrambing QB.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Miami
Bonus: WVU (o yeah)

So to say that there arent many scrambling QB's is absurd. Look at Pat White used to play for WVU, dude always ran first, passed second, where is he now? Last I looked he signed for a MLB team. He couldn't conform to becoming a stand your ground pocket passer!

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
That was not his play call. That was Andy Reid/Lion Fail's call. Why would a backup tell his coach he wants to run a different play?

Are you serious brah? Vick's at his best on the bootleg and play action lmfao

It sure showed! I must have missed that play! O thats right they didnt call it, instead they told Vick to run like he was still being chased in the prison yard.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:38 PM
So very few scrambling QB's? Here is three college football teams off the top of my head that run a scrambing QB.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Miami
4. WVU (o yeah)

So to say that there arent many scrambling QB's is absurd. Look at Pat White used to play for WVU, dude always ran first, passed second, where is he now? Last I looked he signed for a MLB team. He couldn't conform to becoming a stand your ground pocket passer!

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/32/youarereallydumb.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=5057)


Jacory Harris & Geno Smith are Pocket Passers, not Scramblers.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
So very few scrambling QB's? Here is three college football teams off the top of my head that run a scrambing QB.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Miami
4. WVU (o yeah)

So to say that there arent many scrambling QB's is absurd. Look at Pat White used to play for WVU, dude always ran first, passed second, where is he now? Last I looked he signed for a MLB team. He couldn't conform to becoming a stand your ground pocket passer!

3?? You're giving me 3?

How many pocket passing schools can you give me now?


What aren't you comprehending about this? There are more pocket passers at every level because more people develop their game around that style because it is more traditional which leads to a higher probability that you will see that style dominate at every level.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
It sure showed! I must have missed that play! O thats right they didnt call it, instead they told Vick to run like he was still being chased in the prison yard.
lol

Have you ever seen a Shotgun QB Draw ever work in short yardage?

Not even Tebow, the Shotgun Draw King could do it.

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 12:40 PM
So very few scrambling QB's? Here is three college football teams off the top of my head that run a scrambing QB.

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Miami
Bonus: WVU (o yeah)

So to say that there arent many scrambling QB's is absurd. Look at Pat White used to play for WVU, dude always ran first, passed second, where is he now? Last I looked he signed for a MLB team. He couldn't conform to becoming a stand your ground pocket passer!

still loling at this


Jacory Harris has rushed for 5 yards in his entire career, sounds like a Scrambling QB to me.

Onita
09-17-2010, 12:42 PM
lol

Have you ever seen a Shotgun QB Draw ever work in short yardage?

Not even Tebow, the Shotgun Draw King could do it.

Psh, Tebow would've opened a hole like Moses opened the red sea and scored a TD.

BTW, Harris isn't a scrambling QB, but he's not much of a passing QB either ;)

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:44 PM
still loling at this


Jacory Harris has rushed for 5 yards in his entire career, sounds like a Scrambling QB to me.

It doesn't even matter what Harris is. We could give him Harris too but the point still stands


I find it hard to believe this guy is 28 because this isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:45 PM
3?? You're giving me 3?

How many pocket passing schools can you give me now?


What aren't you comprehending about this? There are more pocket passers at every level because more people develop their game around that style because it is more traditional which leads to a higher probability that you will see that style dominate at every level.

Exactly and this is why a scrambling QB will never win a superbowl. If they do it because they have learned how to become a pocket passer.

I know there is more pocket passers at every level, and I see you ratio, which means nothing.

Its the prefered style for a reason, if it wasnt teams would be picking up people like Chris Johnson and putting them at the QB position.

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 12:49 PM
It doesn't even matter what Harris is. We could give him Harris too but the point still stands


I find it hard to believe this guy is 28 because this isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Deusch, the whole point of this little convo is that pocket passing has always and will always be the winning style. The prefered style also! This is y scrambling QB's don't amount to sh!t. Tu comprende?

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:49 PM
Exactly and this is why a scrambling QB will never win a superbowl. If they do it because they have learned how to become a pocket passer.

I know there is more pocket passers at every level, and I see you ratio, which means nothing.

Its the prefered style for a reason, if it wasnt teams would be picking up people like Chris Johnson and putting them at the QB position.

It's the preferred style because before 2000 there was no such thing as a scrambler


Traditions don't break over night.

tmc.
09-17-2010, 12:50 PM
Yeah, you're right. Gameplanning is the same for a pocket passer as it is for a scrambling quarterback.

Idiot.

So let me get this straight:

An NFL coaching staff, respected as a good one (Mike McCarthy), did not spend any time gameplanning for Vick in Week 1 knowing that Vick would take some snaps even if Kolb did not get hurt?

NFL coaches spend time gameplanning in case there's an earthquake that causes a crack between the 20 and 15 yard lines and what plays they should run to take advantage if that situation arises.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:51 PM
Deusch, the whole point of this little convo is that pocket passing has always and will always be the winning style. The prefered style also! This is y scrambling QB's don't amount to sh!t. Tu comprende?

phaggot, what you don't comprehend is far less are even attempting the scrambling style because it's BRAND F*CKING NEW.

With less people attempting it, no sh*t it's going to win less.

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Give it 20 years and the scrambling style will be the preferred style in the NFL. I'd bet money on that. This is a brand new concept that has only recently gained exposure. No one even knew what that sh*t was before 10 years ago.

Alec Trevelyan
09-17-2010, 01:06 PM
oh hai guise!


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/Steve-Young.jpg

Masstastic
09-17-2010, 01:08 PM
oh hai guise!


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/Steve-Young.jpg

Oh hai ancestor!

http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/tarkenton.jpg

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 01:14 PM
phaggot, what you don't comprehend is far less are even attempting the scrambling style because it's BRAND F*CKING NEW.

With less people attempting it, no sh*t it's going to win less.

Get off the phaggy time bra.

Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Ben Rufiesburger

All superbowl winning QB's! Tell me where Vick stands on that list? Shall I keep going? Ur defending a style that sucks and will always suck!

TheRagingboxer
09-17-2010, 01:16 PM
Give it 20 years and the scrambling style will be the preferred style in the NFL. I'd bet money on that. This is a brand new concept that has only recently gained exposure. No one even knew what that sh*t was before 10 years ago.

A brand new concept of running fast and sucking cawk at passing? Great concept, I sure hope u don't bet on it?

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 01:28 PM
It's the preferred style because before 2000 there was no such thing as a scrambler


Traditions don't break over night.

picture of randall cunningham.

picture of kordell stewart.

you're right that having legs underneath a QB is a good thing, its another weapon, but first and foremost, you gotta be able to pass. its not a new concept, its just one that's not been highly successful. maybe the right talent hasn't emerged yet. but, the speed of nfl defenses mitigates a lot of the damage that a fast running college QB can do in the nfl.

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 01:31 PM
McButter
4746 attempts
2816 completions
32873 yards
100 int
216 tds

59.33% completion rate
11.67 yds per completion
2.1% interception rate
4.55% TD rate
2.16 TD to INT ratio


McVick
1743 attempts
952 completions
11591 yards
52 ints
72 TD

54.6% completion rate
12.17 yards per completion
2.98% int rate
4.1% TD rate
1.38 TD to INT ratio

Dude. I like Vick and all but please STFU.
Ummm.....wat?

If you look at the numbers that are most important, ( completion %, INT rate, TD rate, TD/INT ratio) Vick is right there with Mcnabb. It's unfair to compare the TOTAL yards, TD's, completions, etc., because Mcnabb has played for a longer time, but looking at the comparable numbers, Vick is not so far behind Mcnabb.

Right, that's why he looked phenomenal on the ground AND through the air last week, albeit against Green Bay's defense, but still!

If you look at TOTAL yardage, he was just as good as many QB's why get ranked higher. Fans are conditioned to ignore QB's rushing yards, RB's receiving yards, etc... which is asinine.
lolwut. GB's got one of the best D's this year brah.

No, you got a preview of what Vick can do when he plays against a defense that gameplanned for a pocket passer.


Brb I'm a professional NFL defense but I can't make adjustments to my gameplan for a running QB even though I know the opposition will use him extensively in the wildcat and I've had an entire half + halftime to figure it out. GTFO

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 01:35 PM
So let me get this straight:

An NFL coaching staff, respected as a good one (Mike McCarthy), did not spend any time gameplanning for Vick in Week 1 knowing that Vick would take some snaps even if Kolb did not get hurt?

NFL coaches spend time gameplanning in case there's an earthquake that causes a crack between the 20 and 15 yard lines and what plays they should run to take advantage if that situation arises.


Hey Vick haters. Im just fine letting Vick's play on the field speak for itself. So far he seems to win far more games as a starting QB than he loses. But we all know you'll just continue to live in denial regardless.

Repped. These mutha****as speak the truth.

inb4 bandwagoners when Vick goes ape$hit for the next couple of weeks

kethnaab
09-17-2010, 01:36 PM
Repped. These mutha****as speak the truth.

inb4 bandwagoners when Vick goes ape$hit for the next couple of weeks

and then just goes plain $hit for the next couple weeks afterward

bbacn123
09-17-2010, 01:40 PM
and then just goes plain $hit for the next couple weeks afterward

Haters will always hate.

At least Im not making baseball threads right now brah just be happy.

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 01:41 PM
and then just goes plain $hit for the next couple weeks afterward

You and I both know Andy Reid will start Kolb again no matter what Vick does. Then, when Kolb fuks up and Philly is calling for his dead body, only then, will Reid put Vick back in.

Onita
09-17-2010, 01:41 PM
Completion % and TD/INT ration is not really that close between Vick and McNabb....

tmc.
09-17-2010, 01:45 PM
btw, the success Vick will have will be in spite of Andy Reid who is above average at identifying personnel, but a bad coach

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 01:45 PM
Ummm.....wat?

If you look at the numbers that are most important, ( completion %, INT rate, TD rate, TD/INT ratio) Vick is right there with Mcnabb. It's unfair to compare the TOTAL yards, TD's, completions, etc., because Mcnabb has played for a longer time, but looking at the comparable numbers, Vick is not so far behind Mcnabb.


thanks for the math tip genius. that's why i put the percentages and ratios in.

i don't remember the quote, but someone basically said vick was just as accurate as mcnabb. you said it yourself. vick's still behind mcnabb. not by much, but its not a negligible difference, statistically speaking.

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Completion % and TD/INT ration is not really that close between Vick and McNabb....

The completion % is fairly similar, I agree that the INT ratio is a bit further apart, but let's not act like according to those numbers, Mcnabb is in a whole nother league compared to Vick.

Onita
09-17-2010, 01:51 PM
The completion % is fairly similar, I agree that the INT ratio is a bit further apart, but let's not act like according to those numbers, Mcnabb is in a whole nother league compared to Vick.

Donovan is in the top 45 in career completion % (right beside Marino). Vick as at 140 (with Derek Anderson, Jaws, and Rex Grossman).

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 01:52 PM
He's no less accurate than McNabb and he did well for the Eagles.

yah, this was the statement.

RAMBO316
09-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Donovan is in the top 45 in career completion % (right beside Marino). Vick as at 140 (with Derek Anderson, Jaws, and Rex Grossman).

mcnabb also has about 7 seasons on vick.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 01:55 PM
mcnabb also has about 7 seasons on vick.

that's why we're using percentages.

phucking maths how do they work?

Onita
09-17-2010, 01:56 PM
mcnabb also has about 7 seasons on vick.

.... ok. How does this hurt that McNabb could be more accurate for a longer period of time?

Edit: I don't really care either way. Not a Donovan fan, and I loved watching Vick. He's just not that accurate a passer.

Big7Ben86
09-17-2010, 01:58 PM
the eagles are gonna start kolb as soon as hes healthy, anyone not named jim mora junior will have enough sense to realize vick limits how far and good a team can get, where as kolb at least has the potential to be a franchise qb.

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 02:00 PM
that's why we're using percentages.

phucking maths how do they work?

He means that McNabb has had 7 more years to progress as a QB then Vick has had. Not that hard to figure out. Not to mention McNabb actually was coached properly by Reid and Co., when he 1st came in the league he was strictly a scrambler. On the other hand, Vick's coach's gave him the ball and told him to do what he does.

tmc.
09-17-2010, 02:20 PM
yah, this was the statement.

Then I mentioned that McNabb played in an offense where most of his throws were either behind or 5 yards within the line of scrimmage. If you've actually paid attention to McNabb's play, he is wildly inaccurate except for deep balls.

Lasers1
09-17-2010, 02:25 PM
Then I mentioned that McNabb played in an offense where most of his throws were either behind or 5 yards within the line of scrimmage. If you've actually paid attention to McNabb's play, he is wildly inaccurate except for deep balls.

As an Eagle fan for as long as I can remember, I'll testify to this statement. McNabb's killed more worms with his dirtballs than any pesticides lol.

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 02:48 PM
Then I mentioned that McNabb played in an offense where most of his throws were either behind or 5 yards within the line of scrimmage. If you've actually paid attention to McNabb's play, he is wildly inaccurate except for deep balls.

i'm with you there. i never said mcnabb was a very accurate passer. he's streaky. holds the record for completions in a row. sure, they might be dinks and dunks, but its not a unique offense either. your statement was that vick was just as accurate as mcnabb and the numbers don't hold up, regardless of the composition of those numbers. vick's not that far behind, but he's still behind, and going from mcnabb to vick is a downgrade given history. we'll see what vick can do in the next two weeks and as an eagles fan, i hope he kills it out there. i'm just not sold on vick being the long term answer. not to say kolb is either.

DeseanJackson
09-17-2010, 03:40 PM
So let me get this straight:

An NFL coaching staff, respected as a good one (Mike McCarthy), did not spend any time gameplanning for Vick in Week 1 knowing that Vick would take some snaps even if Kolb did not get hurt?

NFL coaches spend time gameplanning in case there's an earthquake that causes a crack between the 20 and 15 yard lines and what plays they should run to take advantage if that situation arises.

lmao this.
claiming that bobby hoying woulda shredded the Packers because "they didn't plan for him" is retarded

CCAurora
09-17-2010, 03:49 PM
that's why we're using percentages.

phucking maths how do they work?

Every great QB not named Dan Marino didn't peak until later in their career. Hell, Steve Young didn't win a Super Bowl until his 10th year of pro football.

RAMBO316
09-17-2010, 03:52 PM
Every great QB not named Dan Marino didn't peak until later in their career. Hell, Steve Young didn't win a Super Bowl until his 10th year of pro football.

exactly

Faggotron
09-17-2010, 04:04 PM
Every great QB not named Dan Marino didn't peak until later in their career. Hell, Steve Young didn't win a Super Bowl until his 10th year of pro football.


and how long did it take elway to get his? you're absolutely correct. plenty of great HoF quarterbacks didn't win a superbowl, including mcnabb (yeah, i said it). i'm just not sure what you guys are basing your love for vick on. he's a decent QB, better than many other starters in the league. but great? or even a current top QB? that remains to be seen. he's got to work on his decision making, get more accurate with that arm of his, and figure out when to run and when to sit in the pocket. unfortunately, that o-line in philly might not let him do it.