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View Full Version : It is easy to be for logic over religion... but...



Always.Rising
08-09-2010, 04:21 AM
I'm starting to truly realize, being able to have faith as well, takes away any fear that ever comes your way, in a way logic could never do.

And believe me, I am a logical thinker, in fact I feel like I pride myself on my own intellectual capabilities, but there is a peace that comes in the night, or in life, whenever you feel fear, to simply have some faith that you will be okay.




I am not here to convince anyone that they should start having some faith, I am just saying when it comes to being fearless, faith in god, definately brings you some undeniable mental strength.

IMO anyway, and I wouldn't even consider myself very devoted at this point, but I have read enough and believe enough, to feel as if I have a solid form of faith in my life.

And being able to have that faith, and still pursue enhancing my human rationale as well, is a WIN/WIN combo IMO.

Who says you have to be super devoted?, Being open minded is enough of a starting point to truly make you pretty fearless.

Trusting in god gives you a sense of security IMO that your logical rationale will never be able to fully provide.

Just my opinion. Hate it or love it, but I know when I feel feelings of fear, god is my strength.

inb4hate.

(And yes were talking Christianity).

The_Reaper
08-09-2010, 04:26 AM
It's the easy way out, the recourse of a weak mind.

Always.Rising
08-09-2010, 04:37 AM
Possibly, I suppose we all cope in our own individual ways, but I'm off and on with religion, ultimately, it makes more logical sense for me to be open to religion than to completely reject it, and I have tried both ways.

All I know is you can't convince people to have some form of faith, they have to come to that conclusion on thier own.

If anything the most logical thing to do is be neutral on the topic imo, that way you don't completely close yourself off to the possibility.

But like you said, once you have it in your head, that only weaker minds rely on religion, that is some pretty tough reasoning to change. (as I have come to the same conclusions in my past, in fact it is something that I always think I'll battle with).

I wouldn't have the faith I do, if I didn't experience what I had in my life, without going into too much detail, either way having at least that little bith of faith is enough to trump most of your psychological concerns of this world.

But untill something happens to you where your logical reasoning leaves you flat on your ass (for lack of a better expression) IMO, you will always feel like you are just fine with your logical rationale.

And I hope nothing ever does test your psyche in such ways, your whole perspective on life can change in an instant, but life is what it is, we just all have to make the most of it.

Geese_Howard
08-09-2010, 04:48 AM
The superstition of man is a product of evolution. In our day and age we have few threats to our lives on a daily basis, but 100,000 years ago violence and threats were a daily occurence and those who were superstitious and cautious at every turn likely survived while those who were not died.
Supersition leads to belief in a power that controls events which we have no control over and that is where your god comes from. The belief in god gives some people the calm they need in circumstances where they have little to no understanding, which is why religion is primarily associated with low intelligence (or knowledge for that matter).
There is nothing wrong with feeling fear, in fact it is a natural emotion selected by evolution to keep you alive, however embracing belief in an unknown entity to guide you through your life, even considering the lack of threats today, is wreckless considering the possibilities and options that today's advanced and civilized society affords.

You can choose to hide behind lies and dogma (which today's understaning of the world sheds light on religion's real face as being nothing other than dogma), or you can embrace reality for what it is. The acknowledgment that life has dangers that are beyond your control is a small concession to the knowledge and understanding that is made available to someone who is willing to accept the truth of their origins and the universe.

Boffothe
08-09-2010, 05:11 AM
You simply cannot be a logical person while still worshipping an immortal space god. Think about what you are saying. You are searching for security, but as hard as it is for you to believe, some of us aren't scared.

wildphucker
08-09-2010, 05:12 AM
Heres this for an idea: religion got it wrong totally about the mysteries of life.



possible the answers are both emotionally satifying and intellectually satisfying? Dont see how its possible for the two to have to be mutually exclusive

Queequeg
08-09-2010, 05:16 AM
The whole premise of your OP is wrong because it asumes that it is logical to fear certain challenges in life, it not its emotive

Maiar
08-09-2010, 05:17 AM
It's the easy way out, the recourse of a weak mind.

this, but I don't begrudge people that right. If they need the crutch so be it, I am glad they find their happiness somewhere. Being an atheist I am still looking for mine.

wildphucker
08-09-2010, 05:18 AM
Actually OP look up some reformed epistemology and Wittgensteinian fideism, there are some great ideas here which can totally change your mind about the whole religion and rationality debate.


I.e some beliefs are 'properly basic', and there are other ways to know things without empirical evidence.

Scoundrel
08-09-2010, 05:20 AM
It's the easy way out, the recourse of a weak mind.

how so? i fear God, not death.

Heisman2
08-09-2010, 05:22 AM
I don't understand the mindset that finding happiness with religion means you have a weak mind. What about people who are atheists but find happiness with video games (generic example)? Video games certainly aren't real. One could argue that atheists know video games are not real while theists are in denial about god, but I could easily counter that by saying there is a possibility that god is real while there is no possibility that video games are real.

My point is that it is completely dependent on your viewpoint. To say that people who believe in a god have a weak mind is rather elitist, in my opinion, and reeks of a superiority complex of some sort. What if somebody honestly does believe that a god exists and always has, not simply as a way out but because it's been ingrained into them and they haven't found any reason to stop believing? Does having a certain belief automatically mean you have a weak mind? I don't think it does.

wildphucker
08-09-2010, 05:24 AM
Does a belief of the sort religion espouses have to be irrational?


Can you justify a belief in something you cannot prove evidentially?



What does it even mean to be 'rational'? Where do we get logic and rationality in the first place?


Are faith and 'rationality' mutually exclusive or are they beliefs which just address themselves to fundamentally different questions entirely?

Scoundrel
08-09-2010, 05:26 AM
Does a belief of some sort have to be irrational?


Can you justify a belief in something you cannot prove evidentially?



What does it even mean to be 'rational'? Where do we get logic and rationality in the first place?


Are faith and 'rationality' mutually exclusive or are they beliefs which just address themselves to fundamentally different questions entirely?

can an infinte bein be deduced from rational thoughts?

do rational thoughts/process limit said bein to being finite?

wildphucker
08-09-2010, 05:27 AM
can an infinte bein be deduced from rational thoughts?

do rational thoughts/process limit said bein to being finite?

are you adding to my quesitons, or are these responses to which youd like an answer?

Scoundrel
08-09-2010, 05:42 AM
are you adding to my quesitons, or are these responses to which youd like an answer?

ill answer the best that i can


Does a belief of the sort religion espouses have to be irrational?

did you mean irrational, or rational? probably in most cases, beliefs based on faith is irrational. thats not to say that this is exclusive to religious beliefs, but we all take faith in others work.



Can you justify a belief in something you cannot prove evidentially?

i guess so. can justify just about anything.




What does it even mean to be 'rational'? Where do we get logic and rationality in the first place?

as it pertains to faith, and many other instances, 'rational' just boils down to an idea that you agree with. to me, everything that exists came from a single microorganism is irrational, to others its not. scientists are produced a theory thru experiments that supports this...but they also have started to prove the notion that life can be created, as they themselves have started to do it.



Are faith and 'rationality' mutually exclusive or are they beliefs which just address themselves to fundamentally different questions entirely?

to have faith is probably irrational, tho 'rationality' does exist within the faith. not sure if answers you were looking for.

bird72
08-09-2010, 06:20 AM
It's the easy way out.

You are talking about abortion, euthanasia, suicide, drugs or alcohol?