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jd75
06-03-2010, 10:32 AM
griffey jr. was the fukin man. only other guy in history to have 10 gold gloves and more than 500 hr's is mays. griffey is the 2nd best CF of all time behind mays and the greast player in the 1990's. also hit his home runs without steriods

rippedandforty
06-03-2010, 10:38 AM
Had he not of been injured so often, who knows the #'s he would of posted.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 10:41 AM
griffey jr. was the fukin man. only other guy in history to have 10 gold gloves and more than 500 hr's is mays. griffey is the 2nd best CF of all time behind mays and the greast player in the 1990's. also hit his home runs without steriods

griffey was not the greatest player of the 1990s. bonds was and the awards and the numbers prove it.

inb4 "bonds wasn't on the all century team that was voted on by people who hated him, so griffey must've been better"

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 10:44 AM
I'm a huge Griffey fan obviously growing up in the Seattle area.


But as great as his career was, it will always be somewhat bittersweet. And there will always be that "what if" factor.

matt_vizzle
06-03-2010, 10:47 AM
griffey was not the greatest player of the 1990s. bonds was and the awards and the numbers prove it.

inb4 "bonds wasn't on the all century team that was voted on by people who hated him, so griffey must've been better"

Apples to Oranges ... with Bonds of course being the Orange (his head looks like an orange and the juice factor)


Griffey > Bonds

jd75
06-03-2010, 10:48 AM
griffey was not the greatest player of the 1990s. bonds was and the awards and the numbers prove it.

inb4 "bonds wasn't on the all century team that was voted on by people who hated him, so griffey must've been better"

before bonds took steroids griffey had more power, griffey was a better fielder with a better arm. bonds hit for a slightly higher average and stole some more bases. its very close but i will take a great defensive center fielder with more power and a better arm over a defensively average left fielder who gets a few more hits and steals more bases.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 10:52 AM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though

gregdro
06-03-2010, 10:52 AM
griffey was not the greatest player of the 1990s. bonds was and the awards and the numbers prove it.

inb4 "bonds wasn't on the all century team that was voted on by people who hated him, so griffey must've been better"

you are fking stupid kid

the all-century team was voted on in 99 and i remember because i voted, so get your **** straight

what was bonds doing in 99? sucking dick, no one even knew the guy and he wasn't putting up any numbers, no one even had a chance to hate his ass

then he did some steroids, then he put up some numbers

this was WAYYYY after the voting, and if they revoted today maybe pujols (1b over mcgwire) or rodriguez (3b over brooks robinson) would get in but BONDS IS A JOKE

jd75
06-03-2010, 10:52 AM
griffey was not the greatest player of the 1990s. bonds was and the awards and the numbers prove it.

inb4 "bonds wasn't on the all century team that was voted on by people who hated him, so griffey must've been better"

bonds hit over 40 hr's 4 times from 90-2000 griffey did it 8 times including 56 two years bonds never broke 50.

jd75
06-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though

no, griffey won the gold gloves every year in the 90's. ten straight

matt_vizzle
06-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though

Braves fan alert. GJ on sweeping the Phils though!

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 10:57 AM
you are fking stupid kid

the all-century team was voted on in 99 and i remember because i voted, so get your **** straight

what was bonds doing in 99? sucking dick, no one even knew the guy and he wasn't putting up any numbers, no one even had a chance to hate his ass

then he did some steroids, then he put up some numbers

this was WAYYYY after the voting, and if they revoted today maybe pujols (1b over mcgwire) or rodriguez (3b over brooks robinson) would get in but BONDS IS A JOKE

So Bonds averaging about 35 HRs, 110 RBIs, and 35 SBs every season in the 90s isn't putting up numbers?

3 time MVP winner, 8 time GG winner, averaged an OBP of around .440, an average of around .310

This is all in the 90's by the way...before he became ridiculously good.

GTFO Barry Bonds was the GOAT.

oceandrive
06-03-2010, 10:58 AM
no, griffey won the gold gloves every year in the 90's. ten straight

al/nl

jones also won 10 straight

griff was awesome but saying anyone was better than bonds is just foolish.

SteezeFactory
06-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Crazy to see Griffey retire, he's been my favorite player ever since I knew what baseball was. 24 is my favorite number, I always wanted to play center field, etc. I read last night that he has the most home runs of any player that has never been to a World Series, that sucks. Sweetest swing I've ever seen.

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:01 AM
the greatest hitter of the 1990ís, Griffey hit for a high average (batting over .300 for seven of the years of the decade) and with power (slugging 422 home runs during the 90ís)

Junior won ten consecutive Gold Glove awards, from 1990 through 1999.

He collected 398 homers before his 30th birthday, and shortly thereafter became the first player to hit a pinch-hit homer for his 400th career round-tripper.

During the 1995 League Divisional Series against the Yankees, Griffey smashed five homers, with seven RBI and a .391 average

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:02 AM
no, griffey won the gold gloves every year in the 90's. ten straight

Strong knowledge of Andruw Jones dominance.

Forget the awards though. Anyone who watched them play the field knows that Andruw was better. Jones would be standing under balls waiting from them to come down that Griffey would have to catch on the run. Andruw Jones' jump off the bat and coverage of the field was simply incredible and unparalleled.

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:04 AM
Strong knowledge of Andruw Jones dominance.

Forget the awards though. Anyone who watched them play the field knows that Andruw was better. Jones would be standing under balls waiting from them to come down that Griffey would have to catch on the run. Andruw Jones' jump off the bat and coverage of the field was simply incredible and unparalleled.

hey, griffey also hit 630 fukin homeruns

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 11:06 AM
During the 1995 League Divisional Series against the Yankees, Griffey smashed five homers, with seven RBI and a .391 average


That series was epic.


Griffey scoring from 1st on Edgar Martinez's double is my favorite and most prominent sports memory growing up.


http://seattlesportsnet.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/griffey95.jpg

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:06 AM
hey, griffey also hit 630 fukin homeruns

Im not saying Griffey wasn't the better player. I just said Jones was the better fielder.

I miss watching him play center (I do not miss watching him stand at the plate though)

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:07 AM
Im not saying Griffey wasn't the better player. I just said Jones was the better fielder.

I miss watching him play center (I do not miss watching him stand at the plate though)

i think they were very close in the field and not close at all in their overall game

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:11 AM
i think they were very close in the field and not close at all in their overall game

I dont think they were very close in the field but I agree they weren't even close overall either. Jones couldn't hit worth a damn.

SteezeFactory
06-03-2010, 11:11 AM
http://originaldc.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ken-griffey-jr1.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/_Baseball/_SD_Clips/Video_Hitting_KenGriffeyJr_3B_001.gif

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 11:11 AM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though


Why do you have to come in this thread and start spitting your Braves propaganda?


Just let Griffey get his own shine the day after he retires FFS.

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:13 AM
the mariners would also be in tampa bay if it wasnt for griffey, he saved seattle baseball

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:14 AM
http://originaldc.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/ken-griffey-jr1.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/_Baseball/_SD_Clips/Video_Hitting_KenGriffeyJr_3B_001.gif

best looking swing in MLB history in my opinion.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:14 AM
Why do you have to come in this thread and start spitting your Braves propaganda?


Just let Griffey have his own tribute thread FFS.

It's funny you quote me but don't quote the guy who mentioned Bonds in this thread BEFORE I even came into it.

Obsessed with me a little much?


When I make Chipper's thread about retirement at the end of this season do you think anyone in here is going to "let Chipper have his own tribute thread"? Hell no. We all know when I make that thread all I'm gonna get is a bunch of sarcastic prick responses about how injury prone he was. You know it and I know it.

ESPforMe
06-03-2010, 11:15 AM
I was about 20 yards from the catch at 4:22

gSrR4F6t-ms


feltgoodman

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:18 AM
It's funny you quote me but don't quote the guy who mentioned Bonds in this thread BEFORE I even came into it.

Obsessed with me a little much?


When I make Chipper's thread about retirement at the end of this season do you think anyone in here is going to "let Chipper have his own tribute thread"? Hell no. We all know when I make that thread all I'm gonna get is a bunch of sarcastic prick responses about how injury prone he was. You know it and I know it.
GTFO for mentioning andrew jones and chipper jones in the same sentence as the kid.

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 11:20 AM
It's funny you quote me but don't quote the guy who mentioned Bonds in this thread BEFORE I even came into it.

Obsessed with me a little much?


When I make Chipper's thread about retirement at the end of this season do you think anyone in here is going to "let Chipper have his own tribute thread"? Hell no. We all know when I make that thread all I'm gonna get is a bunch of sarcastic prick responses about how injury prone he was. You know it and I know it.


How about the 20 threads you will make as soon as Martin Prado gets a hang nail or any other mundane event that is Braves related?


You will get a bunch of prick responses because you spam this section about a team nobody cares about.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:21 AM
oh lawd. brace yourselves.

1990s:

BATTING AVERAGE -

Griffey: .3016
Bonds: .3020

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

ON BASE PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .384
Bonds: .434

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

SLUGGING PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .581
Bonds: .602

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

HOME RUNS -

Griffey: 382
Bonds: 361 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER HOME RUN (the stat that actually determines who hits HRs more often) -

Griffey: 14.07
Bonds: 13.55

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

RBI -

Griffey: 1091
Bonds: 1076 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER RBI (the stat that actually determines who gets RBIs more often) -

Griffey: 4.928
Bonds: 4.548

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

WALKS -

Griffey: 703
Bonds: 1146

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STRIKEOUTS -

Griffey: 901
Bonds: 747

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

DOUBLES -

Griffey: 297
Bonds: 299 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

TRIPLES -

Griffey: 30
Bonds: 43 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STOLEN BASES:

Griffey: 151
Bonds: 343

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

OPS+ (the stat that determines how much higher your ON BASE % + SLUGGING % is above the league average) -

Griffey: 152 (aka 52% above league average)
Bonds: 179 (aka 79% above league average)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

GOLD GLOVES -

Griffey: 10
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

SILVER SLUGGER -

Griffey: 7
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

MVP AWARDS -

Griffey: 1
Bonds: 3 (tie for most in MLB history at that point in time)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

Bonds did 300/300 for the decade. There are only 5 other players who are in the 300/300 club for their entire career.

Seems like Bonds was better than Griffey at EVERYTHING except for fielding. Griffey hit 21 more home runs and 15 more RBIS in the decade, but did it in 483 more at bats, which is pretty much an entire season of at bats.

Bonds had 483 less at bats in the decade because Griffey struck out too much and walked too little, and only hit 21 less home runs and 15 less RBIS, which is why when you look at who got HRs and RBIs more often, Bonds wins. Also why Bonds had the higher slugging percentage.


Cliffs:

- epic fail from bonds haters.


you are fking stupid kid

the all-century team was voted on in 99 and i remember because i voted, so get your **** straight

what was bonds doing in 99? sucking dick, no one even knew the guy and he wasn't putting up any numbers, no one even had a chance to hate his ass

then he did some steroids, then he put up some numbers

this was WAYYYY after the voting, and if they revoted today maybe pujols (1b over mcgwire) or rodriguez (3b over brooks robinson) would get in but BONDS IS A JOKE

brb exposing myself as knowing nothing about baseball.

brb having the most MVPs (tie) in the history of baseball by 1993 but NO ONE EVEN KNEW WHO I WAS.

brb being the only member of the 400/400 club by the end of the 90s and being about two seconds away from the 500/500 club but NO ONE KNEW WHO I WAS


phaggot, pls go.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:23 AM
How about the 20 threads you will make as soon as Martin Prado gets a hang nail or any other mundane event that is Braves related?


You will get a bunch of prick responses because you spam this section about a team nobody cares about.

You sure do respond to my posts a lot for not caring.

Edit:

^^^

lol talk about ruining a tribute thread. Look at that wall of text

weakguy
06-03-2010, 11:23 AM
Apples to Oranges ... with Bonds of course being the Orange (his head looks like an orange and the juice factor)


Griffey > Bonds

not sure if srs

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:24 AM
i'm not a bonds hater, i think it is close but griffey was the better overall player in the 90's. lightyears better in the field,played a more important position, hit over 50 hrs twice hit over 40 hrs 8 times, and hit for the same average basicailly

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:25 AM
all that said, Griffey was the man, and it was great to be able to see the entire career of the second best player of this era.

he was so likeable too, which is why he could show up the pitcher after every single home run with his slow walk, and it would make people like him even more.

charisma ftw.

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:26 AM
all that said, Griffey was the man, and it was great to be able to see the entire career of the second best player of this era.

he was so likeable too, which is why he could show up the pitcher after every single home run with his slow walk, and it would make people like him even more.

charisma ftw.

bonds threw like a 13 year old girl. ask sid bream. griffey also didnt juice until his head doubled in size

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:30 AM
bonds threw like a 13 year old girl. ask sid bream.

nobody is perfect brah.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 11:31 AM
bonds threw like a 13 year old girl. ask sid bream. griffey also didnt juice until his head doubled in size

lol I remember Bonds just sitting down in the OF and crying after that game. Andy Van Slyke (sp?) just walked to the dugout with his face buried in his hat.

http://www.douglasderda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sid_bream.jpg

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 11:32 AM
You sure do respond to my posts a lot for not caring.

Edit:

^^^

lol talk about ruining a tribute thread. Look at that wall of text


Touche.

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:34 AM
nobody is perfect brah.

in the 90's griffey could hit,throw,field,run. bond could hit,run, and kinda field

matt_vizzle
06-03-2010, 11:36 AM
not sure if srs

Very serious. How do you compare natural to steroids?

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:36 AM
lol I remember Bonds just sitting down in the OF and crying after that game. Andy Van Slyke (sp?) just walked to the dugout with his face buried in his hat.

http://www.douglasderda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sid_bream.jpg

yea it was a tough loss for them. and 17 consecutive losing seasons since bonds left, i'm sure it still hurts.

brb being ungrateful and bitching at bonds for blowing that throw even though we won 96 games in 1992 with bonds and 75 in 1993 without him.

brb watching san fran win 72 games in 1992 without bonds and 103 in 1993 with him.

too bad his arm was weak though.

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 11:37 AM
in the 90's griffey could hit,throw,field,run. bond could hit,run, and kinda field


There are very few 5 tool players in baseball. Junior was undoubtedly one of them.


-Hit for average
-Hit for power
-Speed
-Fielding
-Arm

BeachBrah22
06-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Me and my friends used to play ken griffey jr baseball on the n64 all the time and I a mesh griffey mariners jersey that I would wear like everyday

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:38 AM
in the 90's griffey could hit,throw,field,run. bond could hit,run, and kinda field

see previous "wall of text" for proof of who was better at what during the 1990s.

griffey was better defensively (this includes throwing and fielding). bonds was better at everything else, and was also elite at fielding. just sucked at throwing.

robogain
06-03-2010, 11:39 AM
oh lawd. brace yourselves.

1990s:

BATTING AVERAGE -

Griffey: .3016
Bonds: .3020

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

ON BASE PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .384
Bonds: .434

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

SLUGGING PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .581
Bonds: .602

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

HOME RUNS -

Griffey: 382
Bonds: 361 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER HOME RUN (the stat that actually determines who hits HRs more often) -

Griffey: 14.07
Bonds: 13.55

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

RBI -

Griffey: 1091
Bonds: 1076 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER RBI (the stat that actually determines who gets RBIs more often) -

Griffey: 4.928
Bonds: 4.548

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

WALKS -

Griffey: 703
Bonds: 1146

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STRIKEOUTS -

Griffey: 901
Bonds: 747

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

DOUBLES -

Griffey: 297
Bonds: 299 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

TRIPLES -

Griffey: 30
Bonds: 43 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STOLEN BASES:

Griffey: 151
Bonds: 343

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

OPS+ (the stat that determines how much higher your ON BASE % + SLUGGING % is above the league average) -

Griffey: 152 (aka 52% above league average)
Bonds: 179 (aka 79% above league average)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

GOLD GLOVES -

Griffey: 10
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

SILVER SLUGGER -

Griffey: 7
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

MVP AWARDS -

Griffey: 1
Bonds: 3 (tie for most in MLB history at that point in time)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

Bonds did 300/300 for the decade. There are only 5 other players who are in the 300/300 club for their entire career.

Seems like Bonds was better than Griffey at EVERYTHING except for fielding. Griffey hit 21 more home runs and 15 more RBIS in the decade, but did it in 483 more at bats, which is pretty much an entire season of at bats.

Bonds had 483 less at bats in the decade because Griffey struck out too much and walked too little, and only hit 21 less home runs and 15 less RBIS, which is why when you look at who got HRs and RBIs more often, Bonds wins. Also why Bonds had the higher slugging percentage.


Cliffs:

- epic fail from bonds haters.



brb exposing myself as knowing nothing about baseball.

brb having the most MVPs (tie) in the history of baseball by 1993 but NO ONE EVEN KNEW WHO I WAS.

brb being the only member of the 400/400 club by the end of the 90s and being about two seconds away from the 500/500 club but NO ONE KNEW WHO I WAS


phaggot, pls go.



quoted for emphasis. bonds >>>>>>>>>> griffey

jd75
06-03-2010, 11:41 AM
see previous "wall of text" for proof of who was better at what during the 1990s.

griffey was better defensively (this includes throwing and fielding). bonds was better at everything else, and was also elite at fielding. just sucked at throwing.

you say griffey was better at fielding and throwing like its no big deal. griffey also played CF not LF like bonds. they were very close at the plate and not close at all in the field. griffey was no doubt the best all around player in the 1990's.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:52 AM
you say griffey was better at fielding and throwing like its no big deal. griffey also played CF not LF like bonds. they were very close at the plate and not close at all in the field. griffey was no doubt the best all around player in the 1990's.

i lol'd.

numbers don't lie brah. sorry to break it to you, but bonds was the best overall player of the 90s.

in after bonds and his 8 gold gloves were not even close to griffey's 10.
in after you get 8 gold gloves by accident and really just suck in the field.
inb4 bonds got his gold gloves for being good offensively, even though they didnt give him it in 1995 because he didn't deserve it.

and as far as at the plate, a .965 OPS for a 10 year period is not "very close" in any way to a 1.036 OPS. one is very good and one is historic.

and if you really wanna get technical, Bonds was better at 3 of the 5 tools and the numbers prove it.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 11:53 AM
opponents knew who was scarier to face.

Intentional Walks -

Griffey - 162
Bonds - 257 (including one with the bases loaded)

NDame616
06-03-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm glad people recognized Bonds as being the GOAT.

He had 3 MVPs and 8 gold gloves in the 90s...and some clowns are saying he didn't do anything that decade??

howboutaspoon
06-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Barry Bonds' gold gloves were a joke. If you completely suck ass at one facet of the defense, then how can you be the best at your position? My mom runs faster than Sid Bream. My ****ing mom. As a hitter, he's arguably the best ever. As a roiding, egocentric dickhead that couldn't stop my mom from going 2B to home on a basehit, he was the GOAT. And it's not even debatable.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 12:24 PM
Barry Bonds' gold gloves were a joke. If you completely suck ass at one facet of the defense, then how can you be the best at your position? My mom runs faster than Sid Bream. My ****ing mom. As a hitter, he's arguably the best ever. As a roiding, egocentric dickhead that couldn't stop my mom from going 2B to home on a basehit, he was the GOAT. And it's not even debatable.

in after Bonds re-lives the Sid Bream moment on his 39th birthday, july 24, 2003 and threw out the go ahead run at the plate in the top of the 9th inning.

... and then came up first in the bottom of the 9th to win the game with a walk-off HR.


edit: http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=230724126



and no, Bond's gold gloves were not a joke. he was ELITE at fielding since his days in pittsburgh. did you even watch baseball brah? he was so good at catching the ball/running routes that even though he was a below average thrower, he still won gold gloves.


in after people think voting committees did Barry Bonds any favors. every award he's ever won was given to him because they HAD to give it to him. any opportunity to not give him an award was taken, as long as they could justify it with the littlest reason. see: 1995, when any other loved superstar wouldve been gifted the gold glove and 1991 and 2000 when they stole the MVP award from him.

STA1011
06-03-2010, 12:28 PM
no, griffey won the gold gloves every year in the 90's. ten straight

Brb Griffey was AL and Andruw was NL.




oh lawd. brace yourselves.

1990s:

BATTING AVERAGE -

Griffey: .3016
Bonds: .3020

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

ON BASE PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .384
Bonds: .434

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

SLUGGING PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .581
Bonds: .602

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

HOME RUNS -

Griffey: 382
Bonds: 361 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER HOME RUN (the stat that actually determines who hits HRs more often) -

Griffey: 14.07
Bonds: 13.55

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

RBI -

Griffey: 1091
Bonds: 1076 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER RBI (the stat that actually determines who gets RBIs more often) -

Griffey: 4.928
Bonds: 4.548

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

WALKS -

Griffey: 703
Bonds: 1146

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STRIKEOUTS -

Griffey: 901
Bonds: 747

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

DOUBLES -

Griffey: 297
Bonds: 299 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

TRIPLES -

Griffey: 30
Bonds: 43 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STOLEN BASES:

Griffey: 151
Bonds: 343

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

OPS+ (the stat that determines how much higher your ON BASE % + SLUGGING % is above the league average) -

Griffey: 152 (aka 52% above league average)
Bonds: 179 (aka 79% above league average)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

GOLD GLOVES -

Griffey: 10
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

SILVER SLUGGER -

Griffey: 7
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

MVP AWARDS -

Griffey: 1
Bonds: 3 (tie for most in MLB history at that point in time)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

Bonds did 300/300 for the decade. There are only 5 other players who are in the 300/300 club for their entire career.

Seems like Bonds was better than Griffey at EVERYTHING except for fielding. Griffey hit 21 more home runs and 15 more RBIS in the decade, but did it in 483 more at bats, which is pretty much an entire season of at bats.

Bonds had 483 less at bats in the decade because Griffey struck out too much and walked too little, and only hit 21 less home runs and 15 less RBIS, which is why when you look at who got HRs and RBIs more often, Bonds wins. Also why Bonds had the higher slugging percentage.


Cliffs:

- epic fail from bonds haters.



brb exposing myself as knowing nothing about baseball.

brb having the most MVPs (tie) in the history of baseball by 1993 but NO ONE EVEN KNEW WHO I WAS.

brb being the only member of the 400/400 club by the end of the 90s and being about two seconds away from the 500/500 club but NO ONE KNEW WHO I WAS


phaggot, pls go.


Quoted for truth. Griffey was great, but Bonds is the GOAT.




I'm glad people recognized Bonds as being the GOAT.

He had 3 MVPs and 8 gold gloves in the 90s...and some clowns are saying he didn't do anything that decade??

But, but, but.... Griffey was likable !!

NDame616
06-03-2010, 12:30 PM
I also never understood the argument "Player X never did steroids!" Just because you were never caught, didn't mean you never did steroids.

That's like saying "I don't have a speeding ticket, therefore I've never gone over the speed limit!"

ElBonemeister
06-03-2010, 12:33 PM
Just look at Griffey. I've never known or seen somebody who was on steroids or a PHD that was as small as he was.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 12:33 PM
I also never understood the argument "Player X never did steroids!" Just because you were never caught, didn't mean you never did steroids.

That's like saying "I don't have a speeding ticket, therefore I've never gone over the speed limit!"

The two greatest Atlanta Braves, Chipper Jones and Greg Maddux, never did steroids.

u mad?

NDame616
06-03-2010, 12:37 PM
Just look at Griffey. I've never known or seen somebody who was on steroids or a PHD that was as small as he was.

Question: Do you remember who the first awe-inspiring, power-hitting, huge mammoth of a man was the first player busted for PED use in the majors?

Answer: Speedy, light hitting center fielder Alex Sanchez

NDame616
06-03-2010, 12:38 PM
The two greatest Atlanta Braves, Chipper Jones and Greg Maddux, never did steroids.

u mad?

Not mad, because you have no proof they didn't.
And yes, I'm well aware I have no proof they did. However, to say you know they never did steroids is misleading.

thall345
06-03-2010, 12:39 PM
video gave me goosebumps, always loved going to watching griffey play

KuIjZb0Gj8U

buckeyenutz
06-03-2010, 01:00 PM
Sad. One of my favorite players ever.

concrete_mind
06-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though

Strong homer is strong.

As it regards the topic...great career no doubt, but the "what if" factor caused me to lose sleep many a night.

But at least I can take solace in this that things ended (somewhat) well anyway:

Griffey goes to Cooperstown, and Bonds wont.

EDIT: Without a doubt my favorite player as a child, definitely one of the good guys in the sport who just looked the part of a baseball player. I too was a left-handed batter and always tried my best to emulate (not copy) his swing and style of play. I had his jersey and loved playing his game on the Game Boy and on the SNES with my cousins many a night. It's easy to be sad because he's walking away, but there's A LOT to be happy about.

Onita
06-03-2010, 01:33 PM
Strong homer is strong.

As it regards the topic...great career no doubt, but the "what if" factor caused me to lose sleep many a night.

But at least I can take solace in this that things ended (somewhat) well anyway:

Griffey goes to Cooperstown, and Bonds wont.

Which is sad, if it happens.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 01:40 PM
and Bonds wont.

lol if you actually think this

concrete_mind
06-03-2010, 01:44 PM
lol if you actually think this

lol if you actually do...numbers alone won't get you into the hall (pete rose proved that). It's a private committee and they'll put in who they want to put in, period.

Just as Pete had the cloud of controversy surrounding him as it regards betting on baseball, Bonds has his own cloud of controversy surrounding him (in addition to being a complete jackass...he was GOOD (scratch that, GREAT) though, don't get me wrong, you proved that in your previous point) and I'm sure the Hall won't want any part of that (and if I'm wrong, so be it).

If things turn out that way (Junior gets in, and Bonds gets snubbed) personally I think that's a measure (albeit small, in the grand scheme of things) of poetic justice.

JJ369pt2
06-03-2010, 02:02 PM
I also never understood the argument "Player X never did steroids!" Just because you were never caught, didn't mean you never did steroids.

That's like saying "I don't have a speeding ticket, therefore I've never gone over the speed limit!"

Just like David Ortiz and Manny Ramierez...Possibly Pedro and Garciapara

tilaughing.gif

NDame616
06-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Just like David Ortiz and Manny Ramierez...Possibly Pedro and Garciapara

tilaughing.gif

Please give me any insight on Pedro juicing.

Also, nothing was ever close to being proven against Nomar. However, id love to hear more info on Pedro juicing....

howboutaspoon
06-03-2010, 02:14 PM
I have no idea if Griffey took PE's, but I have no reason to believe he did, i.e. increased production in his late 30's, unnatural size gain in his late 30's, and wearing a size New Zealand hat. On the other hand, I'd bet both my testes that Bonds did, and that's without even considering the mountain of anecdotal evidence.

Like it or not, Barry Bonds' legacy is and always will be, that of a self centered douchebag who took steroids, and incidentally may have been the greatest hitter of all time. If you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at jughead himself. Nobody made him do all the douchebaggy stuff he did, so feel free to call him up and cry about it to him. I'm sure he'll take your calls.

jd75
06-03-2010, 02:57 PM
lol, i guess its cool to take so many PED'S that you double in size,ITT it doesnt tarnish your legacy at all.

lets break it down like this, griffey could play every OF position and was the best at the hardest OF position,bonds couldnt do that. griffey would gun a guy at home and had a cannon for an arm,bonds couldnt. griffey could make any play possible in the field and saved many runs from being scored over a season,bonds could not do that.

you see griffey could do things barry never could, they were both great hitters in the 90's and even if you give a slight edge to bonds in hitting griffey is WAY WAY better in the field. bonds couldnt even play griffeys position. best hitter in the 90's probably bonds(still close) best all around baseball player in the 90's Griffey by far.

jd75
06-03-2010, 03:27 PM
oh by the way, the most home runs boonds hit in a season in the 90's was 46, griffey hit more than that 4 years in a row. from 96-99 griffey hit 49,56,56,48 HR's.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 03:45 PM
lol, i guess its cool to take so many PED'S that you double in size,ITT it doesnt tarnish your legacy at all.

lets break it down like this, griffey could play every OF position and was the best at the hardest OF position,bonds couldnt do that. griffey would gun a guy at home and had a cannon for an arm,bonds couldnt. griffey could make any play possible in the field and saved many runs from being scored over a season,bonds could not do that.

you see griffey could do things barry never could, they were both great hitters in the 90's and even if you give a slight edge to bonds in hitting griffey is WAY WAY better in the field. bonds couldnt even play griffeys position. best hitter in the 90's probably bonds(still close) best all around baseball player in the 90's Griffey by far.

cool story bro.

ITP: you try to act like Griffey's advantage in throwing from the outfield isn't canceled out by Bonds EXTREME advantage in speed, stolen bases, and overall base running.

Bonds was the better overall player in the 90s.




oh by the way, the most home runs boonds hit in a season in the 90's was 46, griffey hit more than that 4 years in a row. from 96-99 griffey hit 49,56,56,48 HR's.

another cool one story. but Bonds was on pace for 56 HRs in 1994 before the strike, so there goes that 4 year in a row stat. and if griffey was a better HR hitter than bonds, he would've hit HRs at a better rate and if he had more power he would've had a higher slugging percentage, but neither was true.

jd75
06-03-2010, 03:49 PM
cool story bro.

ITP: you try to act like Griffey's advantage in throwing from the outfield isn't canceled out by Bonds EXTREME advantage in speed, stolen bases, and overall base running.

Bonds was the better overall player in the 90s.





another cool one story. but Bonds was on pace for 56 HRs in 1994 before the strike, so there goes that 4 year in a row stat. and if griffey was a better HR hitter than bonds, he would've hit HRs at a better rate and if he had more power he would've had a higher slugging percentage, but neither was true.

did you really just bring up the strike year? the one where griffey was on pace to break the single season homerun record? well, griffey was a better fielder, better arm, hit more homeruns in 4 season in a row than bonds highest single season total. look we disagree,but can you even argue that a CF is more valuable than a LF? that doesnt factor in at all to you?

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 03:58 PM
did you really just bring up the strike year? the one where griffey was on pace to break the single season homerun record? well, griffey was a better fielder, better arm, hit more homeruns in 4 season in a row than bonds highest single season total. look we disagree,but can you even argue that a CF is more valuable than a LF? that doesnt factor in at all to you?

yea I brought up the strike year because if they both played it out, Griffey wouldve hit more home runs than Bonds highest total during the 90s ONCE. big difference from your 4 in a row stat.

of course we disagree. it's fine. but push comes to shove, i'm starting my franchise with the guy who is more dominant and way more efficient at the plate and on the basepaths, with the speed to be an elite fielder despite a pathetic arm over a guy who strikes out more, walks less, hits home runs less often, hits for a lower average, but makes really really pretty catches in the outfield.

there's a reason the pirates went from 96 wins to 75 wins in the season bonds left and the giants went from 72 wins to 103 wins in the season bonds came to SF, and bonds' weak ass arm had nothing to do with it.

evilsteve02
06-03-2010, 04:01 PM
griffey jr. was the fukin man. only other guy in history to have 10 gold gloves and more than 500 hr's is mays. griffey is the 2nd best CF of all time behind mays and the greast player in the 1990's. also hit his home runs without steriods

he was awesome, should have retired 3 years ago though...hope it doesn't come out that he did roids or i think baseball will be officially shunned by everyone with a soul...

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 04:02 PM
hope it doesn't come out that he did roids or i think baseball will be officially shunned by everyone with a soul...

... as they all continue to make the NFL the most popular sports league in the country without realizing the hypocrisy.

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:03 PM
yea I brought up the strike year because if they both played it out, Griffey wouldve hit more home runs than Bonds highest total during the 90s ONCE. big difference from your 4 in a row stat.

of course we disagree. it's fine. but push comes to shove, i'm starting my franchise with the guy who is more dominant and way more efficient at the plate and on the basepaths, with the speed to be an elite fielder despite a pathetic arm over a guy who strikes out more, walks less, hits home runs less often, hits for a lower average, but makes really really pretty catches in the outfield.

there's a reason the pirates went from 96 wins to 75 wins in the season bonds left and the giants went from 72 wins to 103 wins in the season bonds came to SF, and bonds' weak ass arm had nothing to do with it.

well i will take the most dominate CF in the MLB that hits more HR's in a season and saves me a ton of runs scored against with his fielding.lol ,at higher average. griffey hit .301 and bonds hit .302 whats the difference?

Tyler44
06-03-2010, 04:06 PM
Andruw Jones was a better fielder though

you be trollin.


Griffey was the best player of the 90s, no doubt about it. Only legit player in his era to be clean and put up insane numbers. Great guy, amazing player, just a sad ending b/c of the injuries. If he started using he would easily have broken Bonds HR record and would probably have the best hitting numbers of all time in most areas. He is atleast the #2 greatest CF of all time, and without injuries may have been the best off all time. Most versatile player in MLB history, just absolutely natural.

RIP the GOAT.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 04:10 PM
well i will take the most dominate CF in the MLB that hits more HR's in a season and saves me a ton of runs scored against with his fielding.lol ,at higher average. griffey hit .301 and bonds hit .302 whats the difference?

the difference is my team would have the best player in the league.

please explain to us all one more time how griffey's fielding makes up for dramatic difference in offensive production as proven by actual statistics vs youtube videos of diving catches.

3 mvps > 1.

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:14 PM
the difference is my team would have the best player in the league.

please explain to us all one more time how griffey's fielding makes up for dramatic difference in offensive production as proven by actual statistics vs youtube videos of diving catches.

3 mvps > 1.

LOL, what dramatic difference? the one point higher average bonds hit for? or the less homeruns bonds hit?

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 04:20 PM
LOL, what dramatic difference? the one point higher average bonds hit for? or the less homeruns bonds hit?

ITP: someone in denial ignores statistics

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:21 PM
ITP: someone in denial ignores statistics

ITT:someone doesnt know the value of a great centerfielder.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 04:29 PM
ITT:someone doesnt know the value of a great centerfielder.

ITT: someone thinks that a player with an OPS+ of 179 for the decade is only slightly better offensively than someone with an OPS+ of 152.

If Bonds and Griffey only played for that decade and retired, Bonds OPS+ 179 = 3rd best in history (tied with Gehrig, behind Ruth and Williams) while Griffey's OPS+ 152 would put him in 30th place.

3rd best in history offensively is greater than 30th best. alot greater.

continue going in circles without me brah. agree to disagree, even though i'm right.

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:33 PM
ITT: someone thinks that a player with an OPS+ of 179 for the decade is only slightly better offensively than someone with an OPS+ of 152.

If Bonds and Griffey only played for that decade and retired, Bonds OPS+ 179 = 3rd best in history (tied with Gehrig, behind Ruth and Williams) while Griffey's OPS+ 152 would put him in 30th place.

3rd best in history offensively is greater than 30th best. alot greater.

continue going in circles without me brah. agree to disagree, even though i'm right.

well, griffey would have fuking gunned sid bream.

griffey 8 40+ hr seasons in the 90's bonds 4,griffey 2 50 hr seasons bonds 0, griffey 10 gold gloves bonds 8, steroid injections griffey 0 bonds?????

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:40 PM
you be trollin.


Griffey was the best player of the 90s, no doubt about it. Only legit player in his era to be clean and put up insane numbers. Great guy, amazing player, just a sad ending b/c of the injuries. If he started using he would easily have broken Bonds HR record and would probably have the best hitting numbers of all time in most areas. He is atleast the #2 greatest CF of all time, and without injuries may have been the best off all time. Most versatile player in MLB history, just absolutely natural.

RIP the GOAT.

/thread

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 04:41 PM
well, griffey would have fuking gunned sid bream.

griffey 8 40+ hr seasons in the 90's bonds 4,griffey 2 50 hr seasons bonds 0, griffey 10 gold gloves bonds 8, steroid injections griffey 0 bonds?????

cannot begin to describe what a facepalm this is.

jd75
06-03-2010, 04:45 PM
cannot begin to describe what a facepalm this is.

please do.

whatsupfresh19
06-03-2010, 04:50 PM
There are very few 5 tool players in baseball. Junior was undoubtedly one of them.


-Hit for average
-Hit for power
-Speed
-Fielding
-Arm

This. Griffey was everything a baseball player should be, without a doubt one of the greatest of all time. Pls go phaggot homers and haters.

Assassin X
06-03-2010, 04:56 PM
oh lawd. brace yourselves.

1990s:

BATTING AVERAGE -

Griffey: .3016
Bonds: .3020

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

ON BASE PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .384
Bonds: .434

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

SLUGGING PERCENTAGE -

Griffey: .581
Bonds: .602

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

HOME RUNS -

Griffey: 382
Bonds: 361 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER HOME RUN (the stat that actually determines who hits HRs more often) -

Griffey: 14.07
Bonds: 13.55

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

RBI -

Griffey: 1091
Bonds: 1076 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

AT BATS PER RBI (the stat that actually determines who gets RBIs more often) -

Griffey: 4.928
Bonds: 4.548

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

WALKS -

Griffey: 703
Bonds: 1146

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STRIKEOUTS -

Griffey: 901
Bonds: 747

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

DOUBLES -

Griffey: 297
Bonds: 299 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

TRIPLES -

Griffey: 30
Bonds: 43 (IN 483 LESS AT BATS)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

STOLEN BASES:

Griffey: 151
Bonds: 343

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

OPS+ (the stat that determines how much higher your ON BASE % + SLUGGING % is above the league average) -

Griffey: 152 (aka 52% above league average)
Bonds: 179 (aka 79% above league average)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

GOLD GLOVES -

Griffey: 10
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: GRIFFEY

SILVER SLUGGER -

Griffey: 7
Bonds: 8

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

MVP AWARDS -

Griffey: 1
Bonds: 3 (tie for most in MLB history at that point in time)

ADVANTAGE: BONDS

Bonds did 300/300 for the decade. There are only 5 other players who are in the 300/300 club for their entire career.

Seems like Bonds was better than Griffey at EVERYTHING except for fielding. Griffey hit 21 more home runs and 15 more RBIS in the decade, but did it in 483 more at bats, which is pretty much an entire season of at bats.

Bonds had 483 less at bats in the decade because Griffey struck out too much and walked too little, and only hit 21 less home runs and 15 less RBIS, which is why when you look at who got HRs and RBIs more often, Bonds wins. Also why Bonds had the higher slugging percentage.


Cliffs:

- epic fail from bonds haters.



brb exposing myself as knowing nothing about baseball.

brb having the most MVPs (tie) in the history of baseball by 1993 but NO ONE EVEN KNEW WHO I WAS.

brb being the only member of the 400/400 club by the end of the 90s and being about two seconds away from the 500/500 club but NO ONE KNEW WHO I WAS


phaggot, pls go.

Steroid Use

ADVANTAGE: * BONDS

jeff_vangundy
06-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Not only a great player griffey was a class act too.

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 05:03 PM
Steroid Use

ADVANTAGE: * BONDS

cool story bro.

come back when we're discussing the 2000s, and then ITT try to prove it.

weakguy
06-03-2010, 06:21 PM
well, griffey would have fuking gunned sid bream.

griffey 8 40+ hr seasons in the 90's bonds 4,griffey 2 50 hr seasons bonds 0, griffey 10 gold gloves bonds 8, steroid injections griffey 0 bonds????? You have the lamest stats to try to prove someone is better. Griffey had 6 40+ HR seasons in the 90s, not 8. Sure griffey had more 40HR seasons in the 90s but bonds still had a higher ops, OBP etc etc

how about bonds dominating griffey in career OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, SB, MVPs, TB, SB.

Bonds could play the field with one arm and still be a better player.

Reps n Sets
06-03-2010, 06:24 PM
I was about 20 yards from the catch at 4:22

gSrR4F6t-ms


feltgoodman

Those were some insane catches.

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 06:28 PM
well, griffey would have fuking gunned sid bream.



Lies. Sid Bream was lightening quick.

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 06:39 PM
how about bonds dominating griffey in career OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, SB, MVPs, TB, SB.

Bonds could play the field with one arm and still be a better player.


But to play devil's advocate part of the reason he dominated the OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB were because he was such a dominating power hitter throughout the early 2000's. And most pitchers were terrified of pitching to him so he piled up a mind boggling number of walks.


And we all know why that was.

weakguy
06-03-2010, 06:47 PM
But to play devil's advocate part of the reason he dominated the OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB were because he was such a dominating power hitter throughout the early 2000's. And most pitchers were terrified of pitching to him so he piled up a mind boggling number of walks.


And we all know why that was. think of how many more HRs, 2B, and total hits he would've had if pitchers actually pitched to him. mind=blown

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 06:50 PM
But to play devil's advocate part of the reason he dominated the OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB were because he was such a dominating power hitter throughout the early 2000's. And most pitchers were terrified of pitching to him so he piled up a mind boggling number of walks.


And we all know why that was.

Then let's focus on the 1990s. Bonds still dominated him in OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ in the 90s.

And he did that because "most pitchers were terrified of pitching to him so he piled up a mind boggling number of walks" ... in the 90s, Griffey = 162 Intentional Walks, Bonds = 257 Intentional Walks (including one with the bases loaded).

90s or 00s it don't matter... Bonds was always better and more feared at the plate. Factual fact is factual.

CobyWan
06-03-2010, 06:51 PM
think of how many more HRs, 2B, and total hits he would've had if pitchers actually pitched to him. mind=blown


That's the point is he wouldn't have put up any more HRs. He would have stayed consistent with his career.


So are you saying he would have outdone his 73 HR season if he wasn't on steroids?

kethnaab
06-03-2010, 06:51 PM
Bonds was the better hitter by a slight margin

Griffey was the better fielder by a substantial margin

pick your poison

Daewoo_Lanos
06-03-2010, 06:54 PM
ITT: I learn that the 3rd best OPS+ in history is only slightly better than the 30th.





http://robomancer.org/advice/templates/philosoraptor.jpg

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Bonds was the better hitter by a substantial margin

Griffey was the better fielder by a slight margin

pick your poison

Fixed for real

ElBonemeister
06-03-2010, 06:56 PM
Fixed for real
you really believe that?

http://www.djtechtools.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bush_04_06_2004_head_scratch.jpg

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 06:58 PM
you really believe that?

http://www.djtechtools.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bush_04_06_2004_head_scratch.jpg

I really do and you're 13

ElBonemeister
06-03-2010, 06:59 PM
I really do and you're 13
Well now that this is settled...

How is Chipper doing? He still injured (srs, haven't heard anything since he got hurt)

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 07:08 PM
Well now that this is settled...

How is Chipper doing? He still injured (srs, haven't heard anything since he got hurt)

He injured his finger but that just happened if that's what you're referring to. He's out tonight and maybe tomorrow as well. Hopefully he'll be back for the weekend though.

TimDF
06-03-2010, 07:44 PM
Behind Ruth, Griffey is my second favorite player of all time! Love the guy.

jd75
06-03-2010, 10:11 PM
if griffey took the same steroids that barroid bonds took he might have hit 900 hrs

bbacn123
06-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Behind Ruth, Griffey is my second favorite player of all time! Love the guy.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/gorillaman516/bia5at.jpg





You check out a lot of Babe's games in your younger years or something?

jkeithc82
06-04-2010, 05:43 AM
Behind Ruth, Griffey is my second favorite player of all time! Love the guy.

Ruth was a bum, Ty Cobb is where it was at.

NDame616
06-04-2010, 05:56 AM
How do people know:

-Bonds juiced in the 90s?
-Griffey DIDN'T juice in the 90s?

I've seen 0 evidence or even implications that Bonds juiced during the 90s....so someone please enlighten me. Thanks.

UAGreg
06-04-2010, 06:57 PM
If Griffey wasn't injured so much, there is no doubt in my mind he would have the HR record right now.

Anyone that says that Bonds' fielding ability is even close to that of Griffey's clearly did not watch baseball in the 90s.

Ultimately, Griffey will be in the Hall, and Bonds won't. The sad thing is that Bonds would have been in the Hall before the juiced numbers, it's a shame he had to juice and blow any chance at the Hall.

NDame616
06-04-2010, 07:22 PM
If Griffey wasn't injured so much, there is no doubt in my mind he would have the HR record right now.

Anyone that says that Bonds' fielding ability is even close to that of Griffey's clearly did not watch baseball in the 90s.

Ultimately, Griffey will be in the Hall, and Bonds won't. The sad thing is that Bonds would have been in the Hall before the juiced numbers, it's a shame he had to juice and blow any chance at the Hall.

Anyone keeping Bonds out of the hall is a moron.

If he became crippled in 99 (before everyone assumed he was a juicer) and retired, he would've been a first ballot HOFer. He solidified himself as a top OF of all time well before the HRs exploded.

UAGreg
06-04-2010, 07:47 PM
Anyone keeping Bonds out of the hall is a moron.

If he became crippled in 99 (before everyone assumed he was a juicer) and retired, he would've been a first ballot HOFer. He solidified himself as a top OF of all time well before the HRs exploded.

Isn't that exactly what I said in my post?

It'll dumb if he doesn't make the HOF, but I wouldn't even be remotely surprised if he didn't. It's clear that the HOF doesn't like cheaters or those who break the rules.

NDame616
06-04-2010, 07:57 PM
Isn't that exactly what I said in my post?

It'll dumb if he doesn't make the HOF, but I wouldn't even be remotely surprised if he didn't. It's clear that the HOF doesn't like cheaters or those who break the rules.

I didn't disagree with you? I just added some info to what you said...like if his career ended in 99 he would be one of the best players to ever play the game.

UAGreg
06-04-2010, 07:59 PM
I didn't disagree with you? I just added some info to what you said...like if his career ended in 99 he would be one of the best players to ever play the game.

Gotcha

Daewoo_Lanos
06-05-2010, 02:19 AM
It's clear that the HOF doesn't like cheaters or those who break the rules.

Que? There are plenty of cheaters in the HOF, and some have publicly admitted to doing it.

It's clear sportswriters just don't like guys who give them sh*t and get even by trying to destroy their lives while other players who have committed the same crimes get a slap on the wrist from them.

But for the unaware, by 1999, Bonds was the only player in history in the 400/400 club, had the most MVPs in MLB history, had the most 30/30 seasons in MLB history, had 8 silver sluggers, 8 gold gloves, did 40/40, and had the most intentional walks in MLB history.

Chop off the last 8 seasons of his career and still only a handful of players in history even touch him. Include everything and we have the GOAT.

DatDereCe11Tech
06-05-2010, 02:26 AM
bonds was the better hitter by a slight margin

griffey was the better fielder by a substantial margin

pick your poison

uh brah offense is 10 million times more important than fielding for an outfielder in the majors

go look up the difference between a great outfielder and an average outfielder in the majors...there's very little difference there in terms of saving runs (and hell that's an average outfielder vs great, between bonds and griffey, you are looking at great outfielder vs a bit better outfielder, difference is negligible)


bonds was by far a better hitter

bonds had a 16 season stretch where 15 of 16 years = 1000+ ops (only season he missed = .999) (and this is not even discussing bonds' stolen base prowess)

griffey is honestly one of the most overrated players of all time... his best 4 seasons were nothing special (OPS was not even at 1.100), his top 5 seasons are not even in the same league as bonds top 5 seasons in any meaningful category

I mean you are looking at a guy with a career ops of .907 compared to a guy with a career ops of nearly 1.050

there are a lot of players better than griffey (pujols and a-rod for one)

Daewoo_Lanos
06-05-2010, 02:30 AM
bonds had a 16 season stretch where 15 of 16 years = 1000+ ops (only season he missed = .999)

this is possibly the most impressive thing he did in his career.

DatDereCe11Tech
06-05-2010, 02:32 AM
this thread is absolutely ludicrous


fact is, the only reason a thread like this can exist is people have a hardon for guys in the media with a nice image and they have a deep hatred for those they deem arrogant or unapproachable. Much of griffey's hype was cause of his squeaky clean likeable image.... he was never nearly as good of a hitter as guys like pujols, bonds and manny ramirez


if u evaluate the facts, it's not even remotely close... even before bonds became a hulking behemoth, it wasn't even close

Daewoo_Lanos
06-05-2010, 02:36 AM
I mean you are looking at a guy with a career ops of .907 compared to a guy with a career ops of 1.0512


fixed. and brah a top 4 OPS of all time is only slightly better than 57th of all time. haven't you learned anything from this thread yet?

DatDereCe11Tech
06-05-2010, 02:44 AM
lol, i guess its cool to take so many PED'S that you double in size,ITT it doesnt tarnish your legacy at all.

lets break it down like this, griffey could play every OF position and was the best at the hardest OF position,bonds couldnt do that. griffey would gun a guy at home and had a cannon for an arm,bonds couldnt. griffey could make any play possible in the field and saved many runs from being scored over a season,bonds could not do that.

you see griffey could do things barry never could, they were both great hitters in the 90's and even if you give a slight edge to bonds in hitting griffey is WAY WAY better in the field. bonds couldnt even play griffeys position. best hitter in the 90's probably bonds(still close) best all around baseball player in the 90's Griffey by far.

you are a F*cking retard


defense in the majors is ridiculously overrated... the difference between say a caliber of bonds outfielder (keep in mind, he was a great outfielder for most of his career) and JR (who was one of the GOAT perhaps as a centerfielder) is maybe a difference of 10 runs saved throughout the year


that cancels out the fact that Bonds has 300 more stolen bases?? 300 stolen bases that I guarantee lead to at least 100 extra runs over the course of the 90s??

how about the fact that bonds was a significantly better hitter in the 90s? look at obp, slugging, OPS


HELL IF YOU REALLY WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT AN AMAZING STAT, LOOK HOW GOOD BONDS OPS+ WAS IN HIS CAREER BEFORE 2000, THAT'S A STAT THAT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE DIFFICULT OF THE BALLPARK THAT BONDS PLAYED IN.... HE HAD 7 SEASONS OF 170+ OPS+ WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. GRIFFEY JUST HAD 2 SEASONS OF 171 OPS+

I MEAN PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT BONDS WAS AN INCREDIBLY DOMINATING POWER HITTER WAY BEFORE THE ROID EXPLOSION OF MCGWIRE AND SOSA - HE JUST WALKED SO DAMN MUCH SO HE WASN'T ABLE TO HIT 50+ HOMERUNS

BONDS WAS HITTING 40+ HOMERUNS IN LIKE 500 AT BATS WHILE SOSA HIT 66 HRS IN 640 AT BATS, NOT THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE

AND THAT'S WHILE BONDS WAS CLEAN AND SOSA WAS JUICED TO THE GILLS... WHEN THEY WERE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD, IT WAS A JOKE

BONDS WENT FROM ONE OF THE BEST HITTERS EVER TO BEING ABSOLUTELY INHUMAN WHILE SAUCED

DatDereCe11Tech
06-05-2010, 04:49 PM
bump

CobyWan
06-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Loud noises!


Seriously this thread has turned into an internet yelling argument.


"If I type in larger font it will make my points more valid!"

DatDereCe11Tech
06-05-2010, 05:16 PM
Seriously this thread has turned into an internet yelling argument.


"If I type in larger font it will make my points more valid!"

most of the people in this thread are idiots who are easily brainwashed by the media who has a vendetta against Bonds

if you look at facts with even half an intelligent mind, Bonds is the GOAT