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View Full Version : Kobe is better than MJ!!!!!!!!!!!!



fakhter
05-31-2010, 04:01 PM
Lets look at the facts. The league has gotten a lot more athletic since the days of mj. So the comp. is harder. Kobe is no doubt better than michael jordan.

P.S. kobe wont retire till he gets 7rings

DontDisturb
05-31-2010, 04:04 PM
The rules of the league have changed to make it easier for a player like Kobe to score and dominate. They eliminated hand checks, installed zone defenses, added rules to remove hard fouls, etc

It's actually easier now than it was before against talent that is questionably better. Most people that actually know **** think the league isnt as deep since before players were coming out at 18 and 19 years old most players were more prepared and could contribute instead of sitting on a bench for 4 years learning to play.

So, your argument is invalid.

cramron
05-31-2010, 04:09 PM
Kobe is/was 98% of Jordan. But Jordan could dunk over anybody. Jordan was a center....and a point guard. Jordan could will his way through any center/power forward. Kobe looks graceful but he never was able to tear pf's and center apart like Jordan could...

Ive seen Jordan get a rebound under the rim and jump straight up and dunk it with 7 footers all around him, that is Jordan

sparkblade
05-31-2010, 04:12 PM
Nope. I'm the biggest Kobe homer you can find but no.

Floridatrainer
05-31-2010, 04:13 PM
lol at thinking the league is harder now...

Dude how old are you?

fakhter
05-31-2010, 04:15 PM
Kobe is/was 98% of Jordan. But Jordan could dunk over anybody. Jordan was a center....and a point guard. Jordan could will his way through any center/power forward. Kobe looks graceful but he never was able to tear pf's and center apart like Jordan could...

Ive seen Jordan get a rebound under the rim and jump straight up and dunk it with 7 footers all around him, that is Jordan

You gotta name me all the top center in the league during the michael jordan era.

MiscMessiah
05-31-2010, 04:15 PM
athleticism =/= talent

homicidal_misc
05-31-2010, 04:17 PM
You gotta name me all the top center in the league during the michael jordan era.

Olajuwon (sp?), Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson, off the top of my head.

Oh, and lol at OP. That is why you are red ***got.

endofdays89
05-31-2010, 04:17 PM
MJs stats are better, and the league is easier now to score in.

Lloyd Braun
05-31-2010, 04:17 PM
The rules of the league have changed to make it easier for a player like Kobe to score and dominate. They eliminated hand checks, installed zone defenses, added rules to remove hard fouls, etc

It's actually easier now than it was before against talent that is questionably better. Most people that actually know **** think the league isnt as deep since before players were coming out at 18 and 19 years old most players were more prepared and could contribute instead of sitting on a bench for 4 years learning to play.

So, your argument is invalid.

The introduction of zone and other defenses would make it harder to score, not easier. Hand-checking may no longer be allowed but the NBA didn't have the plethora of scouts who break-down every player's weaknesses via video back then either. If it's easier to score today league-wide FG% would have increased, not decreased as well.

And the OP had a valid-point in the increased athleticism of todays players.

cncman
05-31-2010, 04:18 PM
im not wasting a neg on an already deep red douche

Lloyd Braun
05-31-2010, 04:23 PM
Another point to add to the league being tougher today than during the 90's. Foreign competition.

American basketball players still overwhelmingly made up the source for the professional market during the 90's. It's 2010 and hoops has exploded in popularity internationally, elevating the level of foreign play. Let's not forget that the US Men's Basketball team lost international competitions in 2002, 2004 and 2006.

MJ for the most part competed against other American pros. Kobe has had to compete against the world's best. There are American players today who would have made the NBA back in the 90's, who now due to stronger international competition have to play in the NBDL, Euroleage and elsewhere overseas.

That doesn't mean that Kobe is better, because at this point I still don't believe he is, but his competition is IMHO unquestionably better.

StrongUsername1
05-31-2010, 04:35 PM
if you put michael jordan in his prime in todays era, he would dominate more than kobe and lebron.

he would adapt to all his surroundings. if you put lebron and kobe(both in their prime) in MJ's era....

i think you get it

going89mph
05-31-2010, 04:49 PM
Lets look at the facts. The league has gotten a lot more athletic since the days of mj. So the comp. is harder. Kobe is no doubt better than michael jordan.

P.S. kobe wont retire till he gets 7rings

Kobe gets the softest calls in the league, in a league where calls have slowed the game down and in a league where you get a T or suspended for common fouls that Jordan had to face.

Deal with it. You see Kobe crying 1,295 times a game about touch fouls...just think about how many tampons he'd have used up if he played in Jordan's era.

fakhter
05-31-2010, 05:16 PM
Olajuwon (sp?), Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson, off the top of my head.

Oh, and lol at OP. That is why you are red ***got.

Shaq wtf, are you stupid. When shaq was at his best he was on the same team as kobe. While MJ was retired. you have no knowledge about the nba gtfo. All those center are not as athletic or tall as todays big men. Dwight howard, andrew bynum, yao mieng are just some. Hell you have 7footers shooting threes now, dirk. So stfu you dumbass.

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 05:19 PM
The rules of the league have changed to make it easier for a player like Kobe to score and dominate. They eliminated hand checks, installed zone defenses, added rules to remove hard fouls, etc

It's actually easier now than it was before against talent that is questionably better. Most people that actually know **** think the league isnt as deep since before players were coming out at 18 and 19 years old most players were more prepared and could contribute instead of sitting on a bench for 4 years learning to play.

So, your argument is invalid.

That makes it way harder to score brah

jakobi
05-31-2010, 05:28 PM
lol at dwight howard, bynum, and yao...these guys would get massacred by olajuwon, prime shaq, ewing, and robinson


Shaq wtf, are you stupid. When shaq was at his best he was on the same team as kobe. While MJ was retired. you have no knowledge about the nba gtfo. All those center are not as athletic or tall as todays big men. Dwight howard, andrew bynum, yao mieng are just some. Hell you have 7footers shooting threes now, dirk. So stfu you dumbass.

DontDisturb
05-31-2010, 05:45 PM
That makes it way harder to score brah

No, not at all actually. It makes it harder for post/big men but harder on the guards.

homicidal_misc
05-31-2010, 06:07 PM
Shaq wtf, are you stupid. When shaq was at his best he was on the same team as kobe. While MJ was retired. you have no knowledge about the nba gtfo. All those center are not as athletic or tall as todays big men. Dwight howard, andrew bynum, yao mieng are just some. Hell you have 7footers shooting threes now, dirk. So stfu you dumbass.

lol you dumb ****

Uncontested
05-31-2010, 06:12 PM
Age: 18 Comments about MJ from you: Irrelevant

going89mph
05-31-2010, 06:14 PM
Shaq wtf, are you stupid. When shaq was at his best he was on the same team as kobe. While MJ was retired. you have no knowledge about the nba gtfo. All those center are not as athletic or tall as todays big men. Dwight howard, andrew bynum, yao mieng are just some. Hell you have 7footers shooting threes now, dirk. So stfu you dumbass.

Shaq is almost 98 years old, and still a top 3 center in the league.

Not because he's still good, but because the center position is just so weak now.

All of the top centers Jordan played against were better their rookie year than any center Kobe has played against. Jordan also played AGAINST those centers. Kobe comes within 3 feet of one 10 times a full season. 3 point shooting big men are nothing new.


EDIT: So you're a big Kobe fan...so I'm shocked at how you have forgotten the Lakers/Pacers playoff games...and what the pacers center was good at. Was it 3's? DING DING DING.

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 06:18 PM
No, not at all actually. It makes it harder for post/big men but harder on the guards.



Do yoou mean easier on the guards? If so, I disagree...well it makes it harder to score for an INDIVIDUAL player. It's common knowledge that when you're playing against a straight zone defense, three point attempts increase and points becomes more evenly distributed among the guards...because the best way to beat a zone is to rapidly swing the ball around until a guy is open. Zone makes offenders rely on their jumpshots by clogging up the lanes (i.e., zone defense was AI's worst nightmare...LeBron has difficulty now)

Zone defense was brought into the league to make it easier to defend....not make it easier for people to score.

gswarrior510
05-31-2010, 06:19 PM
No, not at all actually. It makes it harder for post/big men but harder on the guards.

wtf..no it doesn't. do you even know what zone is?

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 06:30 PM
Another point to add to the league being tougher today than during the 90's. Foreign competition.

American basketball players still overwhelmingly made up the source for the professional market during the 90's. It's 2010 and hoops has exploded in popularity internationally, elevating the level of foreign play. Let's not forget that the US Men's Basketball team lost international competitions in 2002, 2004 and 2006.

MJ for the most part competed against other American pros. Kobe has had to compete against the world's best. There are American players today who would have made the NBA back in the 90's, who now due to stronger international competition have to play in the NBDL, Euroleage and elsewhere overseas.

That doesn't mean that Kobe is better, because at this point I still don't believe he is, but his competition is IMHO unquestionably better.


lol foreign competiton made the league weaker

thats why they made the game less physical so more international players can succeed and the nba can expand the market globally

the last decade was the most watered down era tons of 160lb euro players and high school players made the league really weak

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 06:32 PM
lol foreign competiton made the league weaker

thats why they made the game less physical so more international players can succeed and the nba can expand the market globally

the last decade was the most watered down era tons of 160lb euro players and high school players made the league really weak

no. foreign players are in the league because they're getting better. don't be stupid.

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 06:35 PM
lol foreign competiton made the league weaker

thats why they made the game less physical so more international players can succeed and the nba can expand the market globally

the last decade was the most watered down era tons of 160lb euro players and high school players made the league really weak

That's ridiculous. If a player's presence makes the league weaker, then they wouldn't have made the league over the alternative.

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 06:37 PM
no. foreign players are in the league because they're getting better. don't be stupid.

nope only without handchecking

put physical D and dirk or gasol and they crack

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 06:37 PM
MJs stats are better, and the league is easier now to score in.

If it's easier to score in, then why are scoring and shooting percentages down?

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 06:42 PM
That's ridiculous. If a player's presence makes the league weaker, then they wouldn't have made the league over the alternative.

lol idiot

hs players were drafted on potential not on their current skills


If it's easier to score in, then why are scoring and shooting percentages down?

derp because they run down the clock more and take worse shots as opposed to good ball movement with open shots

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 06:45 PM
lol idiot

hs players were drafted on potential not on their current skills

I was talking about the europeans. But the players good enough to be drafted out of high school weren't exactly slouches.

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 06:46 PM
derp because they run down the clock more and take worse shots as opposed to good ball movement with open shots

They're being forced to take worse shots because defense is better now, retard.

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 06:49 PM
They're being forced to take worse shots because defense is better now, retard.

how is the defense better if you cant even touch the guy?

playing back to the basket is harder than facing up



I was talking about the europeans. But the players good enough to be drafted out of high school weren't exactly slouches.

the foreign players were brought in to expand the nba market

they made the rules softer so they can actually do well

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 06:52 PM
how is the defense better if you cant even touch the guy?

playing back to the basket is harder than facing up

Zone defense.
Being able to double guys without the ball.
More athletic defenders.
Better coaching.

If these changes to the game weren't enough to counterbalance the less physical game, then scoring and offensive efficiency would be up instead of down.

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 06:58 PM
Zone defense.
Being able to double guys without the ball.
More athletic defenders.
Better coaching.

If these changes to the game weren't enough to counterbalance the less physical game, then scoring and offensive efficiency would be up instead of down.

zone benefits the foreign guys because they're shooters

the scoring efficiency is down because they take bad shots, they run down the shotclock with dribbling and shoot more outside shots than before

in the past they had more ballmovement with less dribbling and higher percentage shots

and the best defenders arent even the best athletes so thats fail right there

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:01 PM
If it's easier to score in, then why are scoring and shooting percentages down?

You are aware that the top 4-5 scorers had significant FG% and PPG increases directly after the new rules were brought in, right?

Yet you're going to seriously sit there and think that just because you traded reps with a bunch of other phaggot retards for a few years that people will believe you?

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:03 PM
Zone defense.
Being able to double guys without the ball.
More athletic defenders.
Better coaching.

If these changes to the game weren't enough to counterbalance the less physical game, then scoring and offensive efficiency would be up instead of down.

Oh man oh man.

athletic defenders?

srs?

gtfo idiot.

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 07:04 PM
zone benefits the foreign guys because they're shooters

the scoring efficiency is down because they take bad shots, they run down the shotclock with dribbling and shoot more outside shots than before

This is forced because of better defensive schemes.



in the past they had more ballmovement with less dribbling and higher percentage shots

Because they could.



and the best defenders arent even the best athletes so thats fail right there

Yeah the all defensive first team is full of terrible athletes. Kobe, LeBron, Dwight, Rondo, Gerald Wallace. Though LeBron probably should have been replaced by Smith, another terrible athlete.

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 07:05 PM
Oh man oh man.

athletic defenders?

srs?

gtfo idiot.

Well they're more athletic than your Walmart company softball team, anyways.

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:08 PM
Well they're more athletic than your Walmart company softball team, anyways.

Did you spend your entire 15 minute break trying think of that? Or did you spend your entire $125 weeks check to pay someone to think of it for you?

srs

IamaMotherLover
05-31-2010, 07:13 PM
This is forced because of better defensive schemes.



Because they could.



Yeah the all defensive first team is full of terrible athletes. Kobe, LeBron, Dwight, Rondo, Gerald Wallace. Though LeBron probably should have been replaced by Smith, another terrible athlete.

artest bowen battier payton kidd are/were the best defenders none of them are top athletes in the league lol at thinking all defensive teams mean something

the awesome zone defensive schemes make the drive and dish extremely easy all the guy has to do is make the open shot but they waste so much of the shotclock just standing

Greg1983
05-31-2010, 07:14 PM
Did you spend your entire 15 minute break trying think of that? Or did you spend your entire $125 weeks check to pay someone to think of it for you?

srs

Somebody's mad he has a 15 year old girl's job.

sircharles032
05-31-2010, 07:21 PM
The introduction of zone and other defenses would make it harder to score, not easier. Hand-checking may no longer be allowed but the NBA didn't have the plethora of scouts who break-down every player's weaknesses via video back then either. If it's easier to score today league-wide FG% would have increased, not decreased as well.

And the OP had a valid-point in the increased athleticism of todays players.


Another point to add to the league being tougher today than during the 90's. Foreign competition.

American basketball players still overwhelmingly made up the source for the professional market during the 90's. It's 2010 and hoops has exploded in popularity internationally, elevating the level of foreign play. Let's not forget that the US Men's Basketball team lost international competitions in 2002, 2004 and 2006.

MJ for the most part competed against other American pros. Kobe has had to compete against the world's best. There are American players today who would have made the NBA back in the 90's, who now due to stronger international competition have to play in the NBDL, Euroleage and elsewhere overseas.

That doesn't mean that Kobe is better, because at this point I still don't believe he is, but his competition is IMHO unquestionably better.

I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased. So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

And Europeans? L O L. While there are skilled euros in the league how many of them are above average defenders? A handful maybe. Those skilled europeans are offensive guys like Dirk. I think MJ could have put up whatever insane numbers he wanted to against a team of Dirks and Dragics.



Look at the caliber of players on Kobe's teams compared to MJ's teams. That plus the fact that MJ still had better numbers tells the story.

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:31 PM
Somebody's mad he has a 15 year old girl's job.



Considering you have to have a license, high school diploma, be a current college student, and health insurance to have my job...yeah, I know plenty of 15 year old girls with that stuff.

You mad because you're almost 30 and have done absolutely nothing with your life, so you get on the internet, look like a dumbass, and then say people work at Walmart as your best line of defense? I mean really, that sounds like a solid life you have there.

sohard88
05-31-2010, 07:34 PM
I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased. So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

And Europeans? L O L. While there are skilled euros in the league how many of them are above average defenders? A handful maybe. Those skilled europeans are offensive guys like Dirk. I think MJ could have put up whatever insane numbers he wanted to against a team of Dirks and Dragics.



Look at the caliber of players on Kobe's teams compared to MJ's teams. That plus the fact that MJ still had better numbers tells the story.

Do you really think Kobe's teams the past 3 years have been that good? Pippen is miles ahead of Gasol, Odom plays decent sometimes. Bynum is always injured, Nobody guards artest, D. Fish is one of the worst starting P.G's. The bench is also bad.

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:35 PM
I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased. So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

And Europeans? L O L. While there are skilled euros in the league how many of them are above average defenders? A handful maybe. Those skilled europeans are offensive guys like Dirk. I think MJ could have put up whatever insane numbers he wanted to against a team of Dirks and Dragics.



Look at the caliber of players on Kobe's teams compared to MJ's teams. That plus the fact that MJ still had better numbers tells the story.

People just keep forgetting that MJ was always the leader of his team. Kobe wasn't the leader for even half of his career, and in half of the time he was he was a second round virgin. Jordan put up much better numbers than Kobe in a harder time, and at the age of 40 he averaged something like 20-25 5 5 in the style of play Kobe gets to play.

Do you really think Kobe will be putting up 20-25 5 5 even 5 years from now? Much less at the age of 40?

MiscMessiah
05-31-2010, 07:36 PM
Do you really think Kobe's teams the past 3 years have been that good? Pippen is miles ahead of Gasol, Odom plays decent sometimes. Bynum is always injured, Nobody guards artest, D. Fish is one of the worst starting P.G's. The bench is also bad.

what? fisher is a top 5 left handed pg in the league

going89mph
05-31-2010, 07:41 PM
Do you really think Kobe's teams the past 3 years have been that good? Pippen is miles ahead of Gasol, Odom plays decent sometimes. Bynum is always injured, Nobody guards artest, D. Fish is one of the worst starting P.G's. The bench is also bad.

Bynum is easily a top 5 center in the league, Gasol is easily a top 3 PF in the league, Artest is the best in the league at shutting star players down, and their bench isn't half as bad as Kobe fanboys try to make them out to be in order to make it look like it's all Kobe leading a terrible weak team far.

You do remember the first round right? Kobe was the 3rd most important, at best, in that series. He's lucky he had such a great player in Gasol or Kobe would have been sitting at home the past month. Jordan never had that luxury.

Nerrg
05-31-2010, 07:56 PM
how can you say that gasol is a top 3 PF? bosh, amare, garnett, boozer are all much better players then him

nocbrute
05-31-2010, 08:01 PM
athleticism =/= talent

kobe has more talent than athleticism.. OP = retarded and so are you.

sohard88
05-31-2010, 08:09 PM
Bynum is easily a top 5 center in the league, Gasol is easily a top 3 PF in the league, Artest is the best in the league at shutting star players down, and their bench isn't half as bad as Kobe fanboys try to make them out to be in order to make it look like it's all Kobe leading a terrible weak team far.

You do remember the first round right? Kobe was the 3rd most important, at best, in that series. He's lucky he had such a great player in Gasol or Kobe would have been sitting at home the past month. Jordan never had that luxury.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/TimLovesChezza/CherylSoBad.gif

MiscMessiah
05-31-2010, 08:12 PM
kobe has more talent than athleticism.. OP = retarded and so are you.

talking about defense vs athleticism

sohard88
05-31-2010, 08:14 PM
How many games did the Bulls win when Jordan first retired?

going89mph
05-31-2010, 08:22 PM
how can you say that gasol is a top 3 PF? bosh, amare, garnett, boozer are all much better players then him

Gasol>Garnett/Boozer

Amare played center more than he did PF this season anyways, and a lot against the Lakers in the playoffs. Hence him being the starting CENTER for the allstar team. They didn't put him in the center ballot for ****s and giggles.

ElMariachi
05-31-2010, 08:23 PM
Lets look at the facts. The league has gotten a lot more athletic since the days of mj. So the comp. is harder. Kobe is no doubt better than michael jordan.

P.S. kobe wont retire till he gets 7rings



Defenses are also far more lenient and the game in general is far less physical. Jordan played in an era where defenders could legally **** you up. I don't think Kobe could have handled the sort of abuse that was thrown at some of the big stars of that day.

Monkey Helmet
05-31-2010, 08:24 PM
As soon as I saw the title I knew the OP was going to be red.

gswarrior510
05-31-2010, 08:27 PM
I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased. So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

And Europeans? L O L. While there are skilled euros in the league how many of them are above average defenders? A handful maybe. Those skilled europeans are offensive guys like Dirk. I think MJ could have put up whatever insane numbers he wanted to against a team of Dirks and Dragics.



Look at the caliber of players on Kobe's teams compared to MJ's teams. That plus the fact that MJ still had better numbers tells the story.

got any stats backing that up buddy or are you gonna just pull something out of your ass again like you did in 99% of your "argument"?

or how about all 3 point records, free throw records, 3 point % records being broken by new players?

sohard88
05-31-2010, 08:29 PM
Defenses are also far more lenient and the game in general is far less physical. Jordan played in an era where defenders could legally **** you up. I don't think Kobe could have handled the sort of abuse that was thrown at some of the big stars of that day.

Kobe is one of the toughest players in the league. Care to disagree?

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 08:37 PM
some of the responses in this thread make me want to stab my eyes with a rusty screwdriver.

For every sport, people are always like "back in the day the game was so much better." It's just nostalgia.

MiscMessiah
05-31-2010, 08:39 PM
some of the responses in this thread make me want to stab my eyes with a rusty screwdriver.

if i post more respones will you make a vid of that?

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 08:41 PM
I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased.So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

And Europeans? L O L. While there are skilled euros in the league how many of them are above average defenders? A handful maybe. Those skilled europeans are offensive guys like Dirk. I think MJ could have put up whatever insane numbers he wanted to against a team of Dirks and Dragics.



Look at the caliber of players on Kobe's teams compared to MJ's teams. That plus the fact that MJ still had better numbers tells the story.

no. just no. defense is getting better, but offense is getting better at a faster rate...great offense always beats out great defense.

SpeedDemon9
05-31-2010, 08:41 PM
MJ will always be #1 and Kobe has validated his spot as #2 for the people that watched both of them play.

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 08:43 PM
if i post more respones will you make a vid of that?

maybe...

killerthrilller
05-31-2010, 08:44 PM
kobe hasnt even retired to play baseball yet how can he be on jordans level?

leafs43
05-31-2010, 08:44 PM
The NBA is such a weak ass league now its ridiculous to compare the current league to a decade ago.


The 90's was probably the best era of basketball.

exzile
05-31-2010, 08:44 PM
Ever since the foreign and high school players started coming into the league total skill has gone down and athleticism has gone up.

Watching most games now makes me feel sorry for what the league has turned into. It's far more about athletic 1vall players that slow down the game by clearing out a side, running down the clock and taking a fancy shot that makes people ooh and ahh.

Or high potential players that have a huge upside but lack massive amounts of fundamentals that becomes more obvious as the season wears on and the post-season begins.

Foreign players while usually good fundamentally lack in the defense dept.

I'll agree with todays players as more athletic but this more of a changing of the game and teams going more after potential and athleticism over solid play and fundamental skill.

Players and teams from the 80s-90s were more team orientated on offense and defense.

Sandbrah
05-31-2010, 08:45 PM
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-07-13/1247455512582.jpg

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/troll_thread.jpg

Mr.Hombre
05-31-2010, 08:50 PM
a lot of you guys saying that high school players drafted straight into the league have watered down the skill level........huh?

before this new one-year college rule, there was only like a handful of players drafted straight out of high school per draft. And most high school draftees have turned into solid players. and the ones that sucked....don't play....how can players who don't play water down the league? lmao

nocbrute
05-31-2010, 08:53 PM
talking about defense vs athleticism

it was directed at op you retarded 15 year old phaggot.

going89mph
05-31-2010, 08:53 PM
MJ will always be #1 and Kobe has validated his spot as #2 for the people that watched both of them play.

Explain how Kobe can even be considered top 5. He has 1 finals MVP, he's not even been the leader of his team for half of his career, and in half of the time he's been the leader he's not made it past the first round. His only Finals MVP came in a season where his biggest competition was injured, and you can't deny that Stern did everything he could to push Kobe, and by push I mean help and scam other teams, for a lot of his success.

Kobe's a terrible teammate, a terrible husband, a terrible father, and a terrible role model. Oh, and a rat.

killerthrilller
05-31-2010, 08:58 PM
Explain how Kobe can even be considered top 5. He has 1 finals MVP, he's not even been the leader of his team for half of his career, and in half of the time he's been the leader he's not made it past the first round. His only Finals MVP came in a season where his biggest competition was injured, and you can't deny that Stern did everything he could to push Kobe, and by push I mean help and scam other teams, for a lot of his success.

Kobe's a terrible teammate, a terrible husband, a terrible father, and a terrible role model. Oh, and a rat.

you were doing fine

then you went too far

we're not here to hurt feelings

Lloyd Braun
05-31-2010, 09:01 PM
I laughed at the part about zone defenses. Zones really bother post players and one dimensional players (guys that can only shoot or can only drive). They wouldn't have made that big of a difference in MJs statistics.

But they would have made a difference.


Yes, they had scouts, and good ones.

And today's scouts are better. This shouldn't even be disputed.


League wide FG% has decreased because league wide shooting ability has decreased. So many players come into the league now because or raw athleticism without the tools necessary to be a well rounded player. The game is played at a faster pace for most teams now and that is why these players can survive in today's league where as they couldn't as well in MJs. So, that's why the FG% is down, because people can't shoot, not because defenses are much improved.

I don't buy that at all.

SpeedDemon9
05-31-2010, 09:03 PM
Explain how Kobe can even be considered top 5. He has 1 finals MVP, he's not even been the leader of his team for half of his career, and in half of the time he's been the leader he's not made it past the first round. His only Finals MVP came in a season where his biggest competition was injured, and you can't deny that Stern did everything he could to push Kobe, and by push I mean help and scam other teams, for a lot of his success.

Kobe's a terrible teammate, a terrible husband, a terrible father, and a terrible role model. Oh, and a rat.

What the fcuk does him being a so called terrible husband and father have to do with basketball? I'm done feeding the trolls.











http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0529/nba_g_kobe14_576.jpg

namean
05-31-2010, 09:55 PM
Lets look at the facts. The league has gotten a lot more athletic since the days of mj. So the comp. is harder. Kobe is no doubt better than michael jordan.

P.S. kobe wont retire till he gets 7rings

Age: 18

ElMariachi
06-01-2010, 11:32 AM
Kobe is one of the toughest players in the league. Care to disagree?



Compared to guys 10, 15 years ago, he's a pansy, like the vast majority of the league currently. Jordan played in one of the most physical era's of basketball, period. The clothesline that Raja Bell put on Bryant a few years back, that sort of physical play was far more common back in the late 80s/early 90s. Go back and watch some old games of Jordan vs Detroit in the playoffs and the beating he took. No comparison in that regard.

Srs Thread
06-01-2010, 11:55 AM
All those center are not as athletic or tall as todays big men. Dwight howard, andrew bynum, yao mieng are just some. Hell you have 7footers shooting threes now, dirk. So stfu you dumbass.

Dwight maybe, but no way in hell is Bynum and Yao more athletics or nearly as good as Hakeem or Robinson. Hell Ewing was better too

going89mph
06-01-2010, 12:13 PM
a lot of you guys saying that high school players drafted straight into the league have watered down the skill level........huh?

before this new one-year college rule, there was only like a handful of players drafted straight out of high school per draft. And most high school draftees have turned into solid players. and the ones that sucked....don't play....how can players who don't play water down the league? lmao

I don't agree that high school players are to blame for the weaker league, but having bust drafts do. In Jordan's era, there were less teams, meaning you have more talent on each team. Now you have a few great teams, lots of average teams, and then lots of teams always trying to go for the improved team getting rid of their good players.

Jordan played against much higher quality teams. Kobe is playing against teams with the talent more spread out, and in a season where there's always at least 10 teams that don't care about winning because they are giving away their best players for some money and draft picks.

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 12:33 PM
For every sport, people are always like "back in the day the game was so much better." It's just nostalgia.

This.

I've been watching NBA for as long as I can remember and I was a HUGE Jordan/bulls fan. There was never a time when players could legally take someone down. If you remember this well I'm sorry either you are just talking from your ass or recalling a few very specfic examples.

I said this in anouther thread about a similar topic. I am certain if Jordan(prime) played in todays game and Kobe played in Jordan's era both would still be 2 of the best ever.

And I bet if that was the case people would defend Kobe to the death just like people do of Jordan because he came first....nostalgia again.

leafs43
06-01-2010, 01:40 PM
This.

I've been watching NBA for as long as I can remember and I was a HUGE Jordan/bulls fan. There was never a time when players could legally take someone down. If you remember this well I'm sorry either you are just talking from your ass or recalling a few very specfic examples.

I said this in anouther thread about a similar topic. I am certain if Jordan(prime) played in todays game and Kobe played in Jordan's era both would still be 2 of the best ever.

And I bet if that was the case people would defend Kobe to the death just like people do of Jordan because he came first....nostalgia again.



Kobe isn't even considered the best in the league right now by almost half the fans.


Jordan when he stepped on the court, he was regarded as the best in the league if not ever. There was simply no comparison to compare him with when he played. There was no "Kobe-Lebron"-esque discussion when it came to Jordan.

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Kobe isn't even considered the best in the league right now by almost half the fans.


Jordan when he stepped on the court, he was regarded as the best in the league if not ever. There was simply no comparison to compare him with when he played. There was no "Kobe-Lebron"-esque discussion when it came to Jordan.

Agreed. But to be fair there was no one really playing that "MJ" style of game when Micheal played. Maybe Grant Hill but with all the injuries he is mostly a what if.

MJ changed the game and that is a large reason why I think he is the best ever. Dunker, shooter, scorer, defender, leader. He is the great one.

Thanks to him though we now have players that fill that role and we are able to have these discussions.

MJ set up Kobe, Lebron, Wade....

Are they as good as Micheal? I won't ever say so. But they are great to watch and I hope they keep pushing to get to MJ's level.

With all the problems with the NBA right now these Stars are the only thing keeping it watchable.

joelz54_99
06-01-2010, 02:01 PM
Lets look at the facts. The league has gotten a lot more athletic since the days of mj. So the comp. is harder. Kobe is no doubt better than michael jordan.

P.S. kobe wont retire till he gets 7rings

Age: 18


enough said

Dutch24
06-01-2010, 02:06 PM
damm you young brahs do not know shiit

Kobe is not even top 5, in my humble opinion players like Wilt, Bird, Magic, Pippin, Russell, isiah thomas are all better

had he played in MJs era he would have had his pu$$y ass handed to him.

MJ played in an era when you could actually defend physically
MJ dropped 63 on a boston team in his second year, a boston team which was one of the greatest ever, MJ had just come back from a broken ankle
MJ got rapped most nights and they still could not touch him
MJ has 6 straight final MVPs, Kobe has 1
MJ averaged over 30ppg in the playoffs
MJ has 5 reg season mvps and should have had another 2 which were handed to malone even though Jordans teams those two years won 70+ games

If a prime MJ played now he would be averaging 50ppg easy

Damm man not many things annoy me, but to even mention Kobe in the same breath as Jordan is a joke, a hilarious joke.....MJ was one in a lifetime athlete in every which way and this need for the league to try and put modern players on his legacy is an embarrassment as well as a disgraceful

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 02:22 PM
If a prime MJ played now he would be averaging 50ppg easy



Anybody who actually watchs NBA, then and now, is shaking their heads right now at this comment.

You make valid arguements up until this statement. But now I'm pretty sure you just looked up Jordan stats on google and don't actually know what your talking about.

Dutch24
06-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Anybody who actually watchs NBA, then and now, is shaking their heads right now at this comment.

You make valid arguements up until this statement. But now I'm pretty sure you just looked up Jordan stats on google and don't actually know what your talking about.

fcuk are you serious......the league now is a joke..90s was the prime of the NBA

how can i explain to someone who was 10, back when MJ was in his prime how good this guy was....he was voted the greatest athlete of all time by sports illustrated across al sports. You cannot get how good this guy was from watching highlights, he was the best, the greatest.

how are you going to say a guy who is not even the best player in the league at the moment is the best ever.

MJ was special man, he was a one off and the sooner the league realizes not every shooting guard will be as good the better, as it has still not moved on and i can understand why.

Its funny i was watching an interview with Phil Jackson when they asked him, and he all but stated it was MJ but clearly did not want to say it as he is stilltrying to get Kobe motivated.

ThatGuy950
06-01-2010, 03:00 PM
damm you young brahs do not know shiit



If a prime MJ played now he would be averaging 50ppg easy



This.

Lettuce be ketchup for a second here, little 18 year olds (who never really watched his airness play) claiming Kobe>MJ... In today's ticky-tacky foul era Jordan would live on the FT line and/or today's players would be too scared to guard him for fear of his FT shooting, he'd be dropping 50 a game. The only thing Kobe has on Jordan is a better outside shot.

Kobe is an amazing player and the best player in the NBA today, and has been for a while, but come on; Jordan is just on another level than anyone else.

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 03:03 PM
MJ changed the game and that is a large reason why I think he is the best ever. Dunker, shooter, scorer, defender, leader. He is the great one.



[QUOTE=Dutch24;498490121]
how are you going to say a guy who is not even the best player in the league at the moment is the best ever.

QUOTE]

If you read my posts you'd see I am a huge MJ fan and believe he is the best ever. Trust me, I know my ball. I'm one of those rare Canadian's raised on Basketball.

I'm just saying don't discredit yourself by saying he would avg 50ppg in todays league because if you knew your ball you would know how stupid that is, even if your just trying to make a point.

IamaMotherLover
06-01-2010, 03:11 PM
if the defense is so much better now then why did jordan put up 22 5 5 as an old man vs a lot of todays current players. artest who is one of the best defenders in the league couldnt stop a slower mj

either the defense now isnt as good or jordan is even better than people already claim

Dutch24
06-01-2010, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=Dutch24;498490121]
how are you going to say a guy who is not even the best player in the league at the moment is the best ever.

QUOTE]

If you read my posts you'd see I am a huge MJ fan and believe he is the best ever. Trust me, I know my ball. I'm one of those rare Canadian's raised on Basketball.

I'm just saying don't discredit yourself by saying he would avg 50ppg in todays league because if you knew your ball you would know how stupid that is, even if your just trying to make a point.

brah fair play however my point is MJ at 38 banged in 51 points in a game cant remeber against who.....now take this guy and imagine him at 28 playing in todays league.....it would be murder on a mass scale, who can stop him when you cant foul him, he would be benching players all game it would be a masacre....he was just made to play this game

Dutch24
06-01-2010, 03:16 PM
if the defense is so much better now then why did jordan put up 22 5 5 as an old man vs a lot of todays current players. artest who is one of the best defenders in the league couldnt stop a slower mj

either the defense now isnt as good or jordan is even better than people already claim

exactly...this is my point....an old man put up those numbers....imagine that guy in his prime it would be devastation ...and everyone including Kobe knows this.

sohard88
06-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Compared to guys 10, 15 years ago, he's a pansy, like the vast majority of the league currently. Jordan played in one of the most physical era's of basketball, period. The clothesline that Raja Bell put on Bryant a few years back, that sort of physical play was far more common back in the late 80s/early 90s. Go back and watch some old games of Jordan vs Detroit in the playoffs and the beating he took. No comparison in that regard.

Kobe a pansy please, he hasn't done one thing to indicate that. Even if the game was so much more physical back then, there is no reason to think he would not fit in just fine.

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 03:22 PM
if the defense is so much better now then why did jordan put up 22 5 5 as an old man vs a lot of todays current players. artest who is one of the best defenders in the league couldnt stop a slower mj

either the defense now isnt as good or jordan is even better than people already claim


Stop making me play devil's advocate against my Fav player of all time.

He averaged those because the Wizards set up there offence so he would get enough "ball time" to still get 22 shots off per game. His time there was pure marketing to help save a struggling franchise in which he was a part owner.

IamaMotherLover
06-01-2010, 03:30 PM
Stop making me play devil's advocate against my Fav player of all time.

He averaged those because the Wizards set up there offence so he would get enough "ball time" to still get 22 shots off per game. His time there was pure marketing to help save a struggling franchise in which he was a part owner.

every team sets up their offense so their best player can get enough shots

Spiked_Drink
06-01-2010, 03:47 PM
every team sets up their offense so their best player can get enough shots

True, but in this case I would lean towards "wants/needs" him to be the best player. (Mind you there wasn't much to pick from. Rip Hamilton being the only other candidate.)

*Side note* Raptors did this with Chris Bosh. They were determined to make him the franchise player. He eventually got there but there were times it was just brutal to watch them force it.

But also lets be real. MJ was the best player ever. It's not like he was going to be terrible when he had the ball.

Fact is Jordan of any age couldn't score 50 a game, no one could, (in modern basketball, sorry Wilt)

*DH*
06-01-2010, 04:02 PM
You gotta name me all the top center in the league during the michael jordan era.

Youre stupid. The 90s big men would dominate todays big men.

Shaq, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning.

ElMariachi
06-01-2010, 05:42 PM
Youre stupid. The 90s big men would dominate todays big men.

Shaq, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning.



LOL and then some. You forgot Mutombo, Shawn Kemp, Dominique Wilkins, Danny Manning, Charles Oakley....etc....etc.