PDA

View Full Version : Question for Christians (srs, no flame war, group neg haters ITT)



mistaballoonhan
05-24-2010, 04:02 PM
Those of you who are Christians, have you read the whole Bible? Do you try to follow every rule within your power? (no accusation)

I'm not Christian (recently agnostic), I'm just curious to hear if anyone has succeeded in literally following every part of The Bible. If you don't follow all of it, how do you choose which parts to ignore? (Question inspired by A.J. Jacobs' book "The Year of Living Biblically")

The bold part is the thing I'm most curious about, so I'd prefer a somewhat detailed answer to that if possible.

Serious thread is serious, please no other religions/non-religions making their say about Christianity.

Sorry if repost, if so let it drop off the board (new to religion/politics subsection).

edit: will be negging people who don't have anything constructive to say, or who flame Christianity (or other religions)

Melkor
05-24-2010, 04:12 PM
Most people (including many Christians) don't understand that the Mosaic law taught in the Old Testament was the physical law given to the Jews in preparation for the Higher Law taught by Christ. Christ's law superseded the Mosaic law. The Spiritual law taught by Christ is actually more difficult to follow in many ways, because it requires that you follow the Spirit rather than the letter of the law. In many cases that means that there is no explicit law to follow and that a person must follow the Spirit, where Mosaic law was exhaustively descriptive of what you could and could not do.

In other words, the Mosaic law is not part of the Christian belief system. Christians follow Christ's law.

That's the Christian perspective.

mistaballoonhan
05-24-2010, 04:28 PM
Most people (including many Christians) don't understand that the Mosaic law taught in the Old Testament was the physical law given to the Jews in preparation for the Higher Law taught by Christ. Christ's law superseded the Mosaic law. The Spiritual law taught by Christ is actually more difficult to follow in many ways, because it requires that you follow the Spirit rather than the letter of the law. In many cases that means that there is no explicit law to follow and that a person must follow the Spirit, where Mosaic law was exhaustively descriptive of what you could and could not do.

In other words, the Mosaic law is not part of the Christian belief system. Christians follow Christ's law.

That's the Christian perspective.

So there's nothing that Christ's Law explicitly said to do besides follow the Spirit? And the Old Testament Laws are admittedly man-made? Or does Christianity just technically not use the Old Testament, yet they are still made by God? And if so, why don't Christians follow them? (very curious, potentially my perspective on Christianity=blown)

ONtop888
05-24-2010, 04:36 PM
A thorough exegesis of the Old Testament will result in its division of two kinds of laws, apodictic and casuistic.

Casuistic law stipulates legal arrangements for very specific juridicial issues, i.e. ownership and emancipation of slaves. No theological explanations are given here, they are a pragmatically assembled legal corpus that are intended to build up a realistic social order that corresponds to a very specific historical and cultural context (ancient Judea).

These laws are historically conditioned and open to criticism, even within the context of the Old Testament it undergoes further development. Newer prescriptions contradict older ones because they are not divinely sanctioned, they were constantly being developed, and in need of reform, hence the Prophets (Isaiah, Hosea, Daniel, Amos, Micah, etc.) and their critique of casuistic laws, which had become an injustice itself.

Apodictic laws are like meta-laws, they are a universal truth (i.e. love God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and love your neighbor as yourself), that has many different ways of being expressed, they are immutable themselves, hence the Matthew 5 quotation about "not one iota" being abolished from the law.........until all is fulfilled, these meta-laws ARE the law, the truest sense of it, the casuistic laws are the shells or the strata of human construction that tries to put that eternal law in context for its particular historical situation, which is always subject to human fallibility.

Melkor
05-24-2010, 04:36 PM
So there's nothing that Christ's Law explicitly said to do besides follow the Spirit? And the Old Testament Laws are admittedly man-made? Or does Christianity just technically not use the Old Testament, yet they are still made by God? And if so, why don't Christians follow them? (very curious, potentially my perspective on Christianity=blown)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7&version=NKJV

Matthew chapters 5-7 are where Christ teaches quite a bit about this exact question.

Moses brought the Jews the ten commandments, and Jewish spiritual leaders "interpreted" them and other writings of prophets and the Mosaic law got very detailed. Things like which types of knots you could tie on the Sabbath without breaking the Sabbath day. While some of those things were from God (honour thy father and mother, etc), some of them are just man's interpretation of God's law (don't tie x knot on the Sabbath) from a Christian perspective. From the Jewish perspective they are all God's law, of course.

Read the link that I posted there, it's fairly short and it should give you a pretty good understanding of why Christians don't follow the law of Moses. If you have questions about it I'll try to answer them for you. Hopefully some of the other really knowledgeable Christians can help too. Ontop888 has a degree in theology, and there's one or two others that have put in some serious study as well.

Melkor
05-24-2010, 04:37 PM
...

Speak of the devil...

:D

ONtop888
05-24-2010, 04:39 PM
Speak of the devil...

:D

:D, hola broskie!

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/devil.gif

all pro
05-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Tamandua
05-24-2010, 04:53 PM
The first chapter of The Gospel According to Spiritism is about it, but it's pretty much what Melkor and OnTop888 explained.

CHAPTER 1 - I HAVE NOT COME TO DESTROY THE LAW

http://leiakardec.com/gospel-according-to-spiritism.php?c=10

mistaballoonhan
05-24-2010, 04:55 PM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7&version=NKJV

Matthew chapters 5-7 are where Christ teaches quite a bit about this exact question.

Moses brought the Jews the ten commandments, and Jewish spiritual leaders "interpreted" them and other writings of prophets and the Mosaic law got very detailed. Things like which types of knots you could tie on the Sabbath without breaking the Sabbath day. While some of those things were from God (honour thy father and mother, etc), some of them are just man's interpretation of God's law (don't tie x knot on the Sabbath) from a Christian perspective. From the Jewish perspective they are all God's law, of course.

Read the link that I posted there, it's fairly short and it should give you a pretty good understanding of why Christians don't follow the law of Moses. If you have questions about it I'll try to answer them for you. Hopefully some of the other really knowledgeable Christians can help too. Ontop888 has a degree in theology, and there's one or two others that have put in some serious study as well.

So these are the divine laws that are required to be followed? Or does it explain which laws are followed? Not sure I understand exactly :P.

To be honest I was just curious as to whether many of the laws Christians quote in hot button issues (gay marriage in particular) is one of the divine laws, or an admittedly modified man-interpreted law.

It seems like many Christians (formerly myself included), have a very poor understanding of how everything in The Bible is set up, especially with respect to the information you guys just gave me, so I'm curious as to whether they realize they may be quoting some admittedly non-divine laws (we have some very accusatory Christian speakers on campus yelling at people on why we're going to hell every day, so I'm referring to them as well as gay marriage, premarital sex, etc where The Bible is regularly quoted).

edit:

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring***8212;not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

wat? I just have to have faith in Abraham?

edit2: no hate on Christianity once again, I believe people in every religion (or atheists/agnostics/etc.) are in general very uneducated about what they believe in, I'm curious to find out what the actual Christian views are, rather than the view of someone who read a few bible quotes on google and goes to church 5 times a year.