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View Full Version : Healthcare DEFORM, what it costs YOU!



MrKleen73
05-21-2010, 09:19 AM
No tax increases huh? Welcome to the New Socialist America...

Starting in 2011 (next year folks) your W 2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of what ever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private
concern or governmental body of some sort. If you're retired ? So what; your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.

The dollar value (cost of what the company pays for your insurance) will be considered income and added to your gross pay. You will be taxed on the total You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.

For many it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse. This is how the government is going to buy insurance for 15 % that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

Not believing this I researched the summaries and here's what I'm reading:

On page 25 of 29 : TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET

PROVISIONS-(sec 9001 , as modified by sec. 10901)

Sec.9002. "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee
the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage "that is excludable from the employees gross income."

Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger New Letters. Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is What I just told you about.

Why am I arming you with tis information in hopes that you will spread the word to the idealistic people who don't realize what this program is going to cause on our economy. People have the right to know the truth because an election is coming in November

On average the company portion of your health benefits are $400-$600 a month, so going with a median of $500 per month that is $6000 a year the average to income ranges especially in two income homes is going to fall in the $34,000-%82,400, and 82,400-$171,850 those tax brackets are respectively 25% and 28%. What that means to you is, your taxes have been increased by $1500, and $1648 a year without a "tax increase" talk about creative. You live paycheck to paycheck, and now over $100 a month is missing? There went your budget. There goes the economy again too. Consumer spending will go down, creditors of non essential bills will not be paid, starting the exact same loop of credit based economical failure that we are supposedly coming out of now.

Imagine being the single mom with a few kids, making 34,500 a year and barely making it, all the suddenly the government comes in grabs your purse and steals $125.00 a month from you to pay for people who didn't do what it takes to get a job and take care of there own self. Yet now you can't pay your bills and you don't qualify for any government aid. Fan-fricken-tastic!

JoshSP1985
05-21-2010, 09:25 AM
feelsbadman.jpg

illriginalized
05-21-2010, 09:43 AM
Can we at least get out of debt first? Seriously... $11.4 Trillion is not a funny number when it's in the negative. -.-

Stuffnblue
05-21-2010, 09:48 AM
if you're a single mom making 34k/year then you qualify for subsidies

overall you would be paying less than now

Hagakure24
05-21-2010, 09:50 AM
we were slouching towards moscow years ago. but yeah, this healthcare bill is like building the red square.

Spetsnazos
05-21-2010, 09:58 AM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

r0gue6
05-21-2010, 09:59 AM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

Wow, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Hagakure24
05-21-2010, 10:00 AM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

itt, 'rich' according to spetsnazos is anyone who pays taxes.

Spetsnazos
05-21-2010, 10:09 AM
itt, 'rich' according to spetsnazos is anyone who pays taxes.

um no.

texlonghornz2
05-21-2010, 10:14 AM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

some one is sour they can't make enough to be in a higher tax bracket, oh wait your government is as corrupt as it can get. Not even going to go into how more taxes after a certain point actually decrease output and even tax revenue collected by the government, wouldn't get through your soviet skull. too much vodka brah?

Spetsnazos
05-21-2010, 10:18 AM
some one is sour they can't make enough to be in a higher tax bracket, oh wait your government is as corrupt as it can get. Not even going to go into how more taxes after a certain point actually decrease output and even tax revenue collected by the government, wouldn't get through your soviet skull. too much vodka brah?

what are you talking about? Please stay on topic, this is about healthcare reform which is vital to this nations survival.

frankenstein
05-21-2010, 01:34 PM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

If a single person is making say $60-70K per year and get $5K in health insurance benefits, is that rich? Hardly.

That extra $5K being taxed means that single person has less money to make their own financial decisions to make. They may decide to live in a smaller apartment, they may decide to take less vacation time (which is damn good for mental health), so on and so on. Why do they get punished for making a little bit over average in income?

matpal
05-21-2010, 01:39 PM
The irony in all of this is Obama absolutely slammed McCain in the election race because this was one of McCain' ideas to help raise tax revenues. I mean Charmain Obama made it sound like taxing health care benefits was worse than beating your wife after serving you a cold dinner.

The hypocrisy is downright enraging.

BetterBehaved
05-21-2010, 02:01 PM
this is about healthcare reform which is vital to this nations survival.

lmfao

Spetsnazos
05-21-2010, 02:05 PM
If a single person is making say $60-70K per year and get $5K in health insurance benefits, is that rich? Hardly.

That extra $5K being taxed means that single person has less money to make their own financial decisions to make. They may decide to live in a smaller apartment, they may decide to take less vacation time (which is damn good for mental health), so on and so on. Why do they get punished for making a little bit over average in income?

it helps their protection. Look, no one likes paying taxes for things like roads and other public services until they have to use them. Fact is that the healthcare costs in this country are out of control and there is no way to afford them without insurance. The system is beyond broken, this is just a patch. Next step will be to limit the amount that doctors can charge for procedures and bring down healthcare costs as a whole. With government leading the charge in what they are willing to pay, this is a logical step in bringing down costs.

daverick89
05-21-2010, 03:08 PM
it helps their protection. Look, no one likes paying taxes for things like roads and other public services until they have to use them. Fact is that the healthcare costs in this country are out of control and there is no way to afford them without insurance. The system is beyond broken, this is just a patch. Next step will be to limit the amount that doctors can charge for procedures and bring down healthcare costs as a whole. With government leading the charge in what they are willing to pay, this is a logical step in bringing down costs.

Cripple then kill. I like your strategy.

BeefyMcNasty
05-21-2010, 05:36 PM
Look, no one likes paying taxes for things like roads and other public services until they have to use them.

Actually, I don't mind paying taxes for that stuff. What I don't like is being FORCED by my GOVERNMENT to BUY something. And now, if I'm not mistaken, this new tax code makes my health insurance provided by my employer, a liability come tax time. In the eyes of the government, I make several thousand dollars more, when in actuality, I never made that money. **** this Administration sucks.

MrKleen73
05-27-2010, 02:48 PM
Can you believe how crappy the guys who support the reform bill are? I have been negged TWICE for having a different opinion than them. I didn't flame them nor call any names as a matter of fact I haven't posted here since I put the information up.

Spetsnazos - grow up, sending negs and calling me an idiot via PM is stupid and childish. All it did was get you negged back and just because our opinions differ doesn't mean there needs to be any negative marks passed out. Just ridiculous.

Some other brainiac negged me asking for references when the post gave the references and where to look them up. WOW!!!! Just goes to show that the "do it for me" mentality isn't just saved for healthcare reform and welfare check babies. I know the post told me the name of the site, and the document to look at and what line of the document specifically addresses this but can you give me a reference? Sorry I didn't make it an actual link for you... Fun part and you will love this. He thought enough to neg me but not enough to actually post in the thread. Once again taking away without putting anything in. Seems like there is a trend with these guys that support the bill.

Spetz you were correct about the other changes that needed to happen, but those should have happened BEFORE every middle waged american was taxed. Costs need prohibited, malpractice needs a cap. It is interesting that taking over $125 a month away from me when I live paycheck to paycheck is okay for me to lose what I work for in your eyes. However it is not okay if you are not given the fruits of my labor when you have done nothing to deserve it. Just being human is not enough. Someone has to add a value to be of any value. If they are just soaking it up like a sponge and not giving it back well they should get sick, stop breathing and the economy will get better with less of those people around to take care of. Sorry for the belief that the strong shall survive and those who refuse to walk on their own should be left at the back of the pack to the wolves. If they don't scramble and do something for themselves they get eaten simple as that. Not my problem nor my responsibility to care for them, that is just the process of natural selection.

You know what this type of socialism does to a country it fosters complacency. Why should I try to be the best when those under me will be the only ones to reap benefit? I shouldn't. Why should a doctor try to be the best if they aren't going to make the best salary. There WAS a reason the rich from all over the world came to America for better healthcare. We have the best. For now that is. Soon we will be like the rest of the world, looking for the best but there won't be a best anymore just a sh*tload of average...

It was the desire to stand out above the rest, and good hard competition that drove us to be the industrial and technical giants we became. It was passive BS political correctness that has weakened our country to the point it is basically a travesty. We don't keep score in little league. Oh no the children may learn how to persevere over trials and losses. My God we can't have children learning those lessons. We can't have children invite kids to birthday parties because Lil Johnny might not get invited because he is an ******* and he might realize he isn't liked amongst the other children. Kids will be left out of things their whole lives but lets act like everyone is equal. EVERYONE IS NOT EQUAL!!!!!!!!! I was born to be stronger than you and Jimmy was born to be faster than me and Joey well he is stronger, faster and smarter than both of us. Are we all equal NOT A FUGGIN CHANCE!!! You make your life what it is. If you bust ass the smart way you will move up. If you just steadily bust ass but don't play it smart you may end up a laborer for the rest of your life and love your life. Some sit at home talking about how they are kept down, and that big government doesn't understand our plight. All the while sucking the life out of every good hard working American out there who is getting screwed by that same government you complain about to take care of your lazy lethargic asses. Some people are hunters, some people are gatherers, some people are braves and some some are vaccuums. Yeah, they just suck... That is what it is. We are different we have gotten so damn sensitive to the differences and discrimination that that we have lost our ability to embrace our differences.

r0gue6
05-27-2010, 02:53 PM
It was the desire to stand out above the rest, and good hard competition that drove us to be the industrial and technical giants we became. It was passive BS political correctness that has weakened our country to the point it is basically a travesty. We don't keep score in little league. Oh no the children may learn how to persevere over trials and losses. My God we can't have children learning those lessons. We can't have children invite kids to birthday parties because Lil Johnny might not get invited because he is an ******* and he might realize he isn't liked amongst the other children. Kids will be left out of things their whole lives but lets act like everyone is equal. EVERYONE IS NOT EQUAL!!!!!!!!! I was born to be stronger than you and Jimmy was born to be faster than me and Joey well he is stronger, faster and smarter than both of us. Are we all equal NOT A FUGGIN CHANCE!!! You make your life what it is. If you bust ass the smart way you will move up. If you just steadily bust ass but don't play it smart you may end up a laborer for the rest of your life and love your life. Some sit at home talking about how they are kept down, and that big government doesn't understand our plight. All the while sucking the life out of every good hard working American out there who is getting screwed by that same government you complain about to take care of your lazy lethargic asses. Some people are hunters, some people are gatherers, some people are braves and some some are vaccuums. Yeah, they just suck... That is what it is. We are different we have gotten so damn sensitive to the differences and discrimination that that we have lost our ability to embrace our differences.

Strong failure to distinguish between equality in rights and being born into a rich family, or being athletic, lol.

People don't neg you because your opinion is different, people neg you because you sound like an ignorant tool.

Ebola_Virus
05-27-2010, 02:55 PM
what are you talking about? Please stay on topic, this is about healthcare reform which is vital to this nations survival.

So you drank the Koolaid huh? I don't blame you, the man is charismatic, I can see how it would be hard for a person with a natural tendency to let others think for them to not admire the man.

VAPlowhorse
05-27-2010, 03:03 PM
Good read, word about this and other components of the reform are not getting out from what I have seen.

Technically it is not supposed to be taxable income, but that could easily change overnight. If you can't add more taxes to a product or service, just tax every step where money changes hands and it achieves the same effect.

And to R&P idiots: This is how you present and argument against healthcare. Not "Obama is a foreign born Muslim who wants to sex your grandma at a death panel". No, you actually tell people what is in the bill.

stealth_swimmer
05-27-2010, 03:52 PM
ppl really need to be specific nowadays with what definition of "socialism" they're using. Raising taxes and publicly funded stuff is socialism? IF that's your definition, then i think you should say so. Otherwise this stuff is not socialism - it's just corporatism (similar but with corporate welfare involved to favored industries).

That being said - yeah, this policy is messed up.


of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

They actually pay more than their fair share. Even given all the favoritism and stuff, if i recall correctly, it's the middle class that benefits most from government programs. It's just that government "help" is such little use, that hardly anyone feels they're getting what they deserve, lol.

nutsy54
05-27-2010, 09:09 PM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair shareThese new taxes will be paid by EVERYONE.

Well... By every productive, wage-earning member of society. Apparently in your world of "The Government Fixes Everything" - anyone who actually earns their own paycheck is "Rich", and deserves to be punished?

nutsy54
05-27-2010, 09:13 PM
what are you talking about? Please stay on topic, this is about healthcare reform which is vital to this nations survival.(a) Why is it "vital to the nation's survival"?

(b) What was actually "reformed" about Health Care under this bill? All we did was force more people into a system which will become more expensive, and lead to more Government spending & taxation...

nutsy54
05-27-2010, 09:18 PM
Next step will be to limit the amount that doctors can charge for procedures and bring down healthcare costs as a whole. With government leading the charge in what they are willing to pay, this is a logical step in bringing down costs.Of course - because artificial price controls have such a great track record in the real world :rolleyes:

Explain how forcing someone to reduce their price will somehow lead to reducing their actual costs... :confused:

Nuggs187
05-27-2010, 09:47 PM
Strong failure to distinguish between equality in rights and being born into a rich family, or being athletic, lol.

People don't neg you because your opinion is different, people neg you because you sound like an ignorant tool.

Please, the only ignorant tools in this thread are you and Spets... obviously.

Bkcmart
05-27-2010, 10:48 PM
it helps their protection. Look, no one likes paying taxes for things like roads and other public services until they have to use them. Fact is that the healthcare costs in this country are out of control and there is no way to afford them without insurance. The system is beyond broken, this is just a patch. Next step will be to limit the amount that doctors can charge for procedures and bring down healthcare costs as a whole. With government leading the charge in what they are willing to pay, this is a logical step in bringing down costs.

God, you're such a tool bag.

With Government leading the charge? The Government can't lead a ****ing post office

st_jimmy
05-27-2010, 11:26 PM
Guys, this is false. The health care bill does not end the employee tax exemption on health insurance premiums. It does require the employer to put it down on the W2 form, but its taxed. From the source hes talking about:


A requirement that businesses include the value of the health care benefits they provide to employees on W-2s, beginning with W-2s for 2011. The amount reported is not considered taxable income.

https://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/health-care-reform-tax-hikes-on-the-way.html

Of course theres still the tax on cadillac plans thats going to kick in later.

Footballguru
05-28-2010, 06:36 AM
ITT: A true soviet living in America.

amtharin
05-28-2010, 06:50 AM
if you're a single mom making 34k/year then you qualify for subsidies

overall you would be paying less than now


And you think relying on the government for subsidies to pay for your healthcare is a good system??

SaviorSix
05-28-2010, 08:21 AM
it's not about health its about control

Spetsnazos
05-28-2010, 08:37 AM
They actually pay more than their fair share. Even given all the favoritism and stuff, if i recall correctly, it's the middle class that benefits most from government programs. It's just that government "help" is such little use, that hardly anyone feels they're getting what they deserve, lol.

They pay a lower effective tax rate than their secretaries. You call taht fair? You think that making millions and then paying a lower tax rate than someone trying to make ends meet is fair? Pathetic bro.

Spetsnazos
05-28-2010, 08:39 AM
God, you're such a tool bag.

With Government leading the charge? The Government can't lead a ****ing post office

This myth has been proven false.

Anything else you got, numbnutsz?

Spetsnazos
05-28-2010, 08:40 AM
Explain how forcing someone to reduce their price will somehow lead to reducing their actual costs... :confused:

Their costs will go down because they wont be able to pay them and their suppliers will have to lower their prices or go out of business(which they wont).

Its quite simple, just gotta think a little.

texlonghornz2
05-28-2010, 09:13 AM
This myth has been proven false.

Anything else you got, numbnutsz?

Post Office

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/03/25/2009-03-25_us_postal_service_going_broke_says_postm.html

Amtrak

http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/smart-takes/amtrak-loses-32-per-passenger-do-we-need-the-la-to-new-orleans-route/1801/

Do i need to continue?

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/08/the-baucus-bill-a-closer-look-at-the-cbo-report/


Do you need more?

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2010/03/18/cbos-score-cloudy-with-a-chance-of-bankruptcy/

I know the last two are blogs but the CBO doesnt have the original report still posted from 1965. Sad i know!

frank112
05-28-2010, 09:26 AM
Their costs will go down because they wont be able to pay them and their suppliers will have to lower their prices or go out of business(which they wont).

Its quite simple, just gotta think a little.

Actually, that tends to result in company layoffs, not reduced costs.

Also on the effective tax thing you mentioned earlier, that effective tax rate applies to federal and state. But I guarantee you that billionaire is paying other taxes (see 1099-R, 1099-INT, 1099-DIV taxes) that the secretary will never see in her life.

RedMyRedYouRed
05-28-2010, 10:55 AM
i hope health care reform does very well and i hope all americans can live well and healthy and happy

this is what your scumbag a$$ should be saying,piece of sh!t....
the day u need some health care,i hope you dont get it

Spetsnazos
05-28-2010, 10:58 AM
Actually, that tends to result in company layoffs, not reduced costs.

Also on the effective tax thing you mentioned earlier, that effective tax rate applies to federal and state. But I guarantee you that billionaire is paying other taxes (see 1099-R, 1099-INT, 1099-DIV taxes) that the secretary will never see in her life.

you mad i got the facts?


Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

frankenstein
05-28-2010, 11:06 AM
it helps their protection. Look, no one likes paying taxes for things like roads and other public services until they have to use them. Fact is that the healthcare costs in this country are out of control and there is no way to afford them without insurance. The system is beyond broken, this is just a patch. Next step will be to limit the amount that doctors can charge for procedures and bring down healthcare costs as a whole. With government leading the charge in what they are willing to pay, this is a logical step in bringing down costs.

You didn't answer any of my questions. Furthermore, the costs will not be going down any time soon. Costs are so high because most people get insurance tied to their employment (thank you Congress and the tax code), because the feds throw TRILLIONS towards the pharmaceutical and insurance companies, so on and so on. Health care costs are not going down without serious rationing coming.

stealth_swimmer
05-28-2010, 06:43 PM
They pay a lower effective tax rate than their secretaries. You call taht fair? You think that making millions and then paying a lower tax rate than someone trying to make ends meet is fair? Pathetic bro.

Nope, I don't call it fair. I think their secretaries should pay less than what they do right now. ;)

It's weird how you can't just think of that. Pathetic bro.

Spetsnazos
05-28-2010, 06:53 PM
Nope, I don't call it fair..

Exactly why the rich need to pay more taxes.

Now you're using your head bro

stealth_swimmer
05-28-2010, 07:13 PM
Exactly why the rich need to pay more taxes.

Now you're using your head bro

Exactly why we need fewer taxes overall (everyone can pay a flat rate since 10% of a million is greater than 10% of 100 thousand) and less government spending, which crowds out the private sector and often more than a 1:1 ratio since government doesn't have profit motive and thus lacks efficiency.

Looks like your head's back in your colon. It's always strange to me how you never want to use data or logic to back up anything you say.

nutsy54
05-28-2010, 08:58 PM
Their costs will go down because they wont be able to pay them and their suppliers will have to lower their prices or go out of business(which they wont).

Its quite simple, just gotta think a little.And this actually makes sense to you?

BRB - Magically lowering the actual costs required to obtain, create, manufacture, or otherwise deliver a service... Simply because Congress said so :rolleyes:

nutsy54
05-28-2010, 09:03 PM
They pay a lower effective tax rate than their secretaries. You call taht fair? You think that making millions and then paying a lower tax rate than someone trying to make ends meet is fair? Pathetic bro.Those "facts" are only true when you narrow in on an insanely small portion of the country - such as analyzing the top 400 income earners... Out of 141,000,000 :rolleyes:

Simply looking at the top 1% of all taxpayers shows the actual truth: The "rich" pay far more income taxes than any other segment - in total dollars, and as a percentage of their income.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Top 1%: Earn 23% of all income, pay 40% of all taxes, at an effective rate of 22.5%
Bottom 50%: Earn 12% of all income, but only pay 3% of all taxes, at an effective rate of 3%

Every time you scream about things being "fair"... Maybe you should check the actual Facts first.

nutsy54
05-28-2010, 09:09 PM
Exactly why the rich need to pay more taxes.

Now you're using your head broMr. Buffet paid $8,142,000 in taxes, according to your figures.
His secretary paid $18,000. (She would need to be employed for 452 years to match the boss's tax payment for that one year).

And in your twisted version of the world... Mr. Buffet should pay even "more" :confused:

PS: If it weren't for Mr. Buffet's success... His secretary wouldn't even have a job there. Hmmmm...

PPS: Let's not even comprehend the option of SPENDING LESS MONEY, we just need to figure out who the hell to grab even more money from :rolleyes:

nutsy54
05-28-2010, 09:13 PM
i hope health care reform does very well and i hope all americans can live well and healthy and happythis is what your scumbag a$$ should be saying,piece of sh!t....
the day u need some health care,i hope you dont get itYou really are a psychotic little stalker, aren't you? :)

Here's a thought: Maybe you should be pissed off at Congress for passing a "health care reform" law that does absolutely nothing to "reform" or improve Health Care. Stop crying to me because you don't like what Washington is doing.

Karcist
05-29-2010, 01:06 AM
Those "facts" are only true when you narrow in on an insanely small portion of the country - such as analyzing the top 400 income earners... Out of 141,000,000 :rolleyes:

Simply looking at the top 1% of all taxpayers shows the actual truth: The "rich" pay far more income taxes than any other segment - in total dollars, and as a percentage of their income.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Top 1%: Earn 23% of all income, pay 40% of all taxes, at an effective rate of 22.5%
Bottom 50%: Earn 12% of all income, but only pay 3% of all taxes, at an effective rate of 3%

Every time you scream about things being "fair"... Maybe you should check the actual Facts first.

*waits for the thread to die as spetsnazi ignores the facts*

RedMyRedYouRed
05-29-2010, 04:35 AM
You really are a psychotic little stalker, aren't you? :)

Here's a thought: Maybe you should be pissed off at Congress for passing a "health care reform" law that does absolutely nothing to "reform" or improve Health Care. Stop crying to me because you don't like what Washington is doing.

ya just cant do it can ya?

LOWTESTOSTERONE
05-31-2010, 07:04 AM
this all makes my brain hurt

Inev
05-31-2010, 08:40 AM
what happens if we opt out of work health insurance?

will we be forced to purchase it form/through the government?

KTownGT
05-31-2010, 10:22 AM
of course it costs the rich mroe tax money...Its about time they start paying their fair share

I hope you're being facetious?

My family already pays many times more than the average American does in taxes. The true "fair" shares would involve a flat tax rate.

nutsy54
05-31-2010, 11:18 AM
what happens if we opt out of work health insurance?

will we be forced to purchase it form/through the government?Under the new law, you will be required to have health insurance. If you don't, you will be fined by the IRS.

majortrepak
06-02-2010, 05:02 PM
My company’s health insurance went up 50% today due to “heath care regulatory changes”. It’s just going to be great living in the modern welfare state.

I won’t have to worry about what to do with my raises, bonuses, and overtime pay, the government will just take it through COGS or taxes.

BRB paying Cadillac health care tax in 18 while JUST making it into the middle class.

snobo4rder08
06-02-2010, 07:20 PM
Goddamnt this ****ing man makes me ****ing rage hard! He is a ****ing idiot Obama. Dumb ****. He blatently said taxing health care is a horrible idea but he is ****ing doing it. I dont understand why the **** i should pay for some ****ing illegal ****s who dont pay **** in for taxes for them to have ****ing health care. Give me a ****ing break

Yes Mad
Yes cant wait for next election

Hope people who voted for this dumb **** relize where we are going

And for my parents who own a small business (1-1.3 million a year gross) had 10 employees and since they were going to be taxed so much for being in a higher bracket they said **** it and fired some of them so they made out better in the end. Hows that for increasing the unemployment rate.

Yes Raging