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Davis_Ever
04-25-2010, 03:46 PM
My friends and I often have a debate about whether or not someone could become a pro athlete by simply busting their ass everyday of their life (someone being good to average genetics...nothing outstanding). Say you started one sport when you were very young and trained to become a pro, do you think its possible to make it without having very good genetics?

2kgt
04-25-2010, 03:48 PM
Depends on sport/position.

Davis_Ever
04-25-2010, 03:54 PM
Depends on sport/position.

elaborate...my stance is that no matter how hard you work you have to have superior genetics (whether that be mental smarts directly related to the game or outstanding athleticism) in order to make it to the pros.

Dysfunqtional
04-25-2010, 03:54 PM
VERY VERY rarely, you can practice all you want with a good coach, perfect form, excellent work ethic and you just may not have it genetically. You can't teach a 90MPH fastball, how to play under pressure, hand eye coordination, speed.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 03:57 PM
in b4 pitbulljr

ESPforMe
04-25-2010, 03:59 PM
I don't think you NEED superior genetics to be a kicker. Maybe for shortstop. Knuckleball pitcher. Golfer.


I think you could make it with above average genetics and elite work ethic though

Horns3
04-25-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think you NEED superior genetics to be a kicker. Maybe for shortstop. Knuckleball pitcher. Golfer.


I think you could make it with above average genetics and elite work ethic though
this, and having someone that could open the door for you, like a coach with a hookup or something

Dysfunqtional
04-25-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think you NEED superior genetics to be a kicker. Maybe for shortstop. Knuckleball pitcher. Golfer.


I think you could make it with above average genetics and elite work ethic though

Look at Michael Jordan's sons, they had the greatest basketball player in history as a father and I am sure they were taught the game well by him and probably played all of the time, but they will never be NEAR what he was.

jump_man23
04-25-2010, 04:02 PM
sure look at the average baseball player

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 04:05 PM
Look at Michael Jordan's sons, they had the greatest basketball player in history as a father and I am sure they were taught the game well by him and probably played all of the time, but they will never be NEAR what he was.

yea but jordans wifes genetics hurt them

i dont think steve nash has great genetics or brett farve

The_Sho
04-25-2010, 04:05 PM
If/When I ever have a son, he is going to be a lefty specialist or a punter...

CCAurora
04-25-2010, 04:06 PM
There are too many variables in pro sports to "guarantee" a spot for anyone. Scott Norwood was a Pro Bowl kicker who was just as good after "Wide Right," but that one kick cost him his career a year later.

RAT_LYFE
04-25-2010, 04:07 PM
it depends how you work, if you bust your ass training like a bodybuilder to become the biggest, but you want to be the best football player then its not gonna work. If you wanna be a marathon runner you gotta train like a marathon runner. If you wanna be a football player, you gotta train like a football player. Also gotta have proper coaching and have the ability to sit down and memorize your responsibility in all situations(linebacker for example) so that when the situation arises your not guessing and the response comes naturally. If you actually want to do it(not just doing it because a parent is pushing you to), have a good training partner, access to the right foods and resources, knowledge of how you should be training, good support groups(coaches, s&c coach), consistency, determination and know how then i believe yes it is possible.

Briangumble
04-25-2010, 04:08 PM
I think it's possible, work ethic is more important than natural talent/ability.

Dysfunqtional
04-25-2010, 04:09 PM
yea but jordans wifes genetics hurt them

i dont think steve nash has great genetics or brett farve

but they have a certain instinct for the game that can't be taught, much like Peyton Manning (yes he has the good genetics) you can't teach the intelligence he brings to the Quarterback position.

Dysfunqtional
04-25-2010, 04:10 PM
sure look at the average baseball player

I hope you are joking... hitting a 90+MPH fastball or a moving pitch can NOT be taught whatsoever. The timing and reaction time you need is insane at the professional level.

TheVM
04-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Hell no. Trust me I know people who bust their ass everyday and went to play sucky D1 school and really haven't accomplished anything. Talent is so important. You don't think there are hundreds of thousand of kids busting their ass out there?

EDIT: I know for a fact that Nash was sick at soccer when he was young. All these people were super athletes in high school.

2kgt
04-25-2010, 04:13 PM
but they have a certain instinct for the game that can't be taught, much like Peyton Manning (yes he has the good genetics) you can't teach the intelligence he brings to the Quarterback position.

Peyton lives in the film room. He works harder than any other QB out there.

Davis_Ever
04-25-2010, 04:14 PM
yea but jordans wifes genetics hurt them

i dont think steve nash has great genetics or brett farve

steve nash is an insane athlete...id say hes probably the best canadian athlete of all time (serious). Ive heard hes good enough to play soccer professionally in europe.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 04:16 PM
I hope you are joking... hitting a 90+MPH fastball or a moving pitch can NOT be taught whatsoever. The timing and reaction time you need is insane at the professional level.
hitting a 90 mph pitch is not hard at all, anyone playing high school ball can easily do that lol

CCAurora
04-25-2010, 04:17 PM
I hope you are joking... hitting a 90+MPH fastball or a moving pitch can NOT be taught whatsoever. The timing and reaction time you need is insane at the professional level.

LOL, I wonder why all those little league coaches waste their time then, or why the players even bother playing before they turn pro.

2kgt
04-25-2010, 04:17 PM
You guys are talking about top level athletes. There are people who spend their careers on the sidelines.

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 04:23 PM
steve nash is an insane athlete...id say hes probably the best canadian athlete of all time (serious). Ive heard hes good enough to play soccer professionally in europe.

i feel bad for canada

hes not explosive, weak, cant jump, but has great skill


also throw larry bird into this mix

Dysfunqtional
04-25-2010, 04:24 PM
hitting a 90 mph pitch is not hard at all, anyone playing high school ball can easily do that lol

a 90 MPH ball is easy to hit? hmm ok tell that to the pros who are still struck out by fastballs, if high school players can hit 90 MPH pitches then a pro should crush it every time right?


LOL, I wonder why all those little league coaches waste their time then, or why the players even bother playing before they turn pro.

because maybe some people want to play baseball for fun? All pros will need coaching and practice obviously.

Davis_Ever
04-25-2010, 04:25 PM
i feel bad for canada

hes not explosive, weak, cant jump, but has great skill


also throw larry bird into this mix

yet still better than 95% of the league who can and is a 2 time (should be 3) nba mvp

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 04:30 PM
yet still better than 95% of the league who can and is a 2 time (should be 3) nba mvp

which proves my point that its not genetics

i dont know about 95% though hes not even the best pg

Suit
04-25-2010, 04:33 PM
VERY VERY rarely, you can practice all you want with a good coach, perfect form, excellent work ethic and you just may not have it genetically. You can't teach a 90MPH fastball, how to play under pressure, hand eye coordination, speed.

Genetics don't mean as much as you guys make it out to be...

Zig_Zag_Man
04-25-2010, 04:33 PM
I have this argument with my brother. He thinks he could box on the level of Money Mayweather if he started training when he was a child and worked his ass off.

Im just like no he is in the .0001% of athletic ability in the world.

Davis_Ever
04-25-2010, 04:36 PM
which proves my point that its not genetics

i dont know about 95% though hes not even the best pg

...theres more to genetics than athleticism, the mental game is huge as well (probably more for the point guard position).

adoniscomplex
04-25-2010, 04:42 PM
i think the average person could make it to a low level of a pro sport if they had amazing coaches, trained perfect and were 100% on it all the time

by low level i mean double a baseball
third string in the nfl
d league nba
ahl hockey

this all assuming they fit the bill for the position ie if they are 5'9 dont expect to be an nfl lineman

but i def feel like if you started training at 3 years old for a sport and had the best coaches and went to a joe defranco strength coach starting at say 10 years old
youd prolly have a decent chance at low level pro sports

Horns3
04-25-2010, 04:44 PM
a 90 MPH ball is easy to hit? hmm ok tell that to the pros who are still struck out by fastballs, if high school players can hit 90 MPH pitches then a pro should crush it every time right?



because maybe some people want to play baseball for fun? All pros will need coaching and practice obviously.
they should be able too, if they can't, they shouldn't be on the team, did you ever play high school baseball? lol

Mtguy8787
04-25-2010, 04:45 PM
nope, gotta have some natural talent. Youre stupid if you dont realize this.

If hard work was all that mattered, then 10 people who started playing a sport around the same age, worked equally hard, would all end up around the same spot. People who started playing a sport in high school, who were roughly the same level, and worked equally hard, would all be at the same level come varsity year. And the kid who worked 2x harder than the star of the team would become the star. Obviously that doesnt happen.

NoS_oUtLaSt
04-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Depends on what you mean. Brady doesn't have "good" genetics. He isn't the fastest, tallest, or smartest person in the world. But with a lot of effort is one of the best QBs

Mtguy8787
04-25-2010, 04:48 PM
Bishes in this thread don't know ne'thing bout epigenetics.

- Genes are not self-emergent, i.e. the genes do not determine what genes get activated, nor when
- Even if you have say, blue eyes, you probably have the genes that can make proteins for green, and brown eyes as well.

HumptyBrah
04-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Order of importance:

work ethic > genetics


It's possible to make it without great genetics if you bust your ass. However, you will not have any type of career if all you are is DNA and no work ethic.

wsuwarrior
04-25-2010, 04:50 PM
More possible to have average physical genetics and an insane work ethic mixed with good coaching and training than to have great genetics with no/bad work ethic or coaching and training.

Baseball is definitely a sport where the average guy has a good chance of succeeding as long as he busted his ass, but that is about the only sport where you dont need exceptional athleticism to be a pro. That said, the BEST pros have that mix of natural talent mixed with years of good training.

HumptyBrah
04-25-2010, 04:50 PM
i think the average person could make it to a low level of a pro sport if they had amazing coaches, trained perfect and were 100% on it all the time

by low level i mean double a baseball
third string in the nfl
d league nba
ahl hockey

this all assuming they fit the bill for the position ie if they are 5'9 dont expect to be an nfl lineman

but i def feel like if you started training at 3 years old for a sport and had the best coaches and went to a joe defranco strength coach starting at say 10 years old
youd prolly have a decent chance at low level pro sports
lol

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 04:57 PM
nope, gotta have some natural talent. Youre stupid if you dont realize this.

If hard work was all that mattered, then 10 people who started playing a sport around the same age, worked equally hard, would all end up around the same spot. People who started playing a sport in high school, who were roughly the same level, and worked equally hard, would all be at the same level come varsity year. And the kid who worked 2x harder than the star of the team would become the star. Obviously that doesnt happen.

out of those 10 people if they were fighting for the last spot on the team, only one can be picked even if they're equal so its all luck

there are d2 and juco athletes who are better than d1 etc its just about connections and getting your name out there

wsuwarrior
04-25-2010, 04:59 PM
there are d2 and juco athletes who are better than d1 etc its just about connections and getting your name out there

Either that, or they are too stupid or have a too extensive criminal record to get on a D1 team.

adoniscomplex
04-25-2010, 05:01 PM
lol

why is that funny

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 05:02 PM
it's not a coincidence that so many brothers, sisters, sons, daughters of pro athletes end up bring pro athletes.

you can say it's because they have great teachers raising them, which is true, but the genetics give them such an advantage.

just take a look at karl malone. he had 3 illegitimate children that he had no part in raising. all three played D1 basketball. one of them also played D1 football at the same time. 1 is in the NFL, 1 is in the WNBA. karl didn't teach any of them sh*t.

gmenfan40
04-25-2010, 05:16 PM
A lot of athletic ability is how you mentally carry yourself while performing, rather than it being all physical. Not everyone has it mentally, but most have the potential physically in one way or another. Division 1 athletes mentally think a little differently than the average joe in an event.

bmy-
04-25-2010, 06:46 PM
I'm gonna say yes. Especially for baseball. As long as you're not a terrible athlete it shouldn't be to difficult. As said above.. it's mostly mental. In football it's far more important to be technically sound, have a strong understanding of the game, and to anticipate the right plays. Freakish athletes can make it without the work some times.. but average athletes with hard work can play at the lower levels.

If you're 6'0 tall and have a decent build.. skys the limit IMO.

21Classic
04-25-2010, 06:48 PM
baseball players



/thread

CCAurora
04-25-2010, 06:49 PM
because maybe some people want to play baseball for fun? All pros will need coaching and practice obviously.

So they can... learn to hit? Yeahhhhh

dogyo
04-25-2010, 08:45 PM
elaborate...my stance is that no matter how hard you work you have to have superior genetics (whether that be mental smarts directly related to the game or outstanding athleticism) in order to make it to the pros.

/facepalm.jpeg

CarpeD1em500
04-25-2010, 09:01 PM
elaborate...my stance is that no matter how hard you work you have to have superior genetics (whether that be mental smarts directly related to the game or outstanding athleticism) in order to make it to the pros.

Disagree. Practicing the way you described will give the illusion of superior genetics anyway, so this would be a difficult argument to ever prove, but I'd argue a lot of NFL linemen and guys like CC Sabathia don't have superior genetics. They're just fat and one can throw a baseball fast and accurate, the result of practice and training.

injectcelltech
04-25-2010, 09:12 PM
I think the hardest to make out of pure work ethic would be the NBA. I definatelly think you could take the average joe and with dedication and correct training could starting at a young age could make most proffesional leagues, of course they won't be the elite, but fully believe it's possible 100%

ezra76
04-25-2010, 09:16 PM
Disagree. Practicing the way you described will give the illusion of superior genetics anyway, so this would be a difficult argument to ever prove, but I'd argue a lot of NFL linemen and guys like CC Sabathia don't have superior genetics. They're just fat and one can throw a baseball fast and accurate, the result of practice and training.

Bull$hit. No matter how much you practice, you would never and will never be able to throw a 90mph. fastball. It's talent they are born with and learn to harness.

There's thousands of 6'8"-6'11" goofs out there trying to fit into cars and hitting their heads on doorways every day that aren't in the NBA. Plenty never even made div.1 benchwarmer. Hard work and practice plays some role but talent wins over any amount of hard work.

Also, whoever said "Larry Bird" is a retard. Jesus Christ, the guy only had one of the best jumpshots in NBA history... and if he wasn't that athletic, then how come nobody could gaurd him?

Ben6485
04-25-2010, 09:18 PM
you can be a pro mma fighter with having bad genetics....doesn't mean you'll be very good...that all depends on how much you want it

I would say I don't have the greatest of genetics...but I train my ass off and it's possible I'll become a pro fighter one day

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 09:22 PM
practice and dedication > genetics

but tbh u need them both. but practice and dedication are by far more important.

there are plenty of professional athletes that i am more athletic then... and plenty of non pros that are more athletic then me.

here is a great book about the topic though... http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017922

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 09:23 PM
Bull$hit. No matter how much you practice, you would never and will never be able to throw a 90mph. fastball. It's talent they are born with and learn to harness.

There's thousands of 6'8"-6'11" goofs out there trying to fit into cars and hitting their heads on doorways every day that aren't in the NBA. Plenty never even made div.1 benchwarmer. Hard work and practice plays some role but talent wins over any amount of hard work.

Also, whoever said "Larry Bird" is a retard. Jesus Christ, the guy only had one of the best jumpshots in NBA history... and if he wasn't that athletic, then how come nobody could gaurd him?

because he had talent....who is going to block him when he shoots behind his head? do you really think bird was athletic?

ezra76
04-25-2010, 09:28 PM
because he had talent....who is going to block him when he shoots behind his head? do you really think bird was athletic?

Of course. Why would you even question that?

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 09:29 PM
Of course.

........because.........

ezra76
04-25-2010, 09:33 PM
........because.........

Maybe because the 2 guys that were between him and the hoop were suddenly behind him in the blink of an eye.

Stop trollin fool.

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 09:36 PM
they should be able too, if they can't, they shouldn't be on the team, did you ever play high school baseball? lol

highschool, aau, college.... etc

i have spent my entire life playing baseball.... of course you can be taught to hit a 90 mph fastball... but if you think the average highschool player can you are a ****ing idiot.

if you are throwing 90 mph in highschool... u will almost certainly get drafted. highchoolers rarely see 90 mph.

RoH4cgSUVCY

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 09:37 PM
bird was athletic. ever watch him play? compared to the average 40" vertical freak who can dunk before his balls drop? not so much. but able to run, jump, hustle non-stop all game long with great stamina and coordination? sure. you can't play the way bird played without being a good athlete. he was a lot more than just a jump shot. he just wasn't a gifted physical specimen.

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Maybe because the 2 guys that were between him and the hoop were suddenly behind him in the blink of an eye.

Stop trollin fool.

did you really post that?

ezra76
04-25-2010, 09:48 PM
bird was athletic. ever watch him play? compared to the average 40" vertical freak who can dunk before his balls drop? not so much. but able to run, jump, hustle non-stop all game long with great stamina and coordination? sure. you can't play the way bird played without being a good athlete. he was a lot more than just a jump shot. he just wasn't a gifted physical specimen.

Did you ever watch him play? Cosider my age and that I live 20minutes from Boston, where every Celtics game road or home is local broadcast. So, yeah, I'm not the one basing it off some Youtube vids I saw.

Tipys
04-25-2010, 09:50 PM
Yes it can and has been done. EVERYTHING can be learned. Having talent only means it is easier for you. So you won't have to work as hard to get it. Those saying it takes talent are trying to make an excuse for others or even there self that fell short.


Anyone remember when you were younger. Teachers and parents telling you. ''You can do or become anything you want to be when you grow up."?

You know its 99percent true (blind kid isn't going to become a race car driver.) You see it everyday. The guy next to you on the weight bent pushed himself to become a doctor, lawyer, firemen, policemen, teacher, etc. Just depends on what your goals are and what your willing to do to reach them. A person driven enough will reach anything his heart wants.

If you fall short of not reaching your goals whatever they may be. You didn't push yourself hard enough or you really didn't want it to begin with.

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 09:50 PM
Did you ever watch him play? Cosider my age and that I live 20minutes from Boston, where every Celtics game road or home is local broadcast. So, yeah, I'm not the one basing it off some Youtube vids I saw.

bird was far from an athletic freak. his speed, power, and explosiveness was far from elite. his genius and greatness lied in skill. not athleticism.

to say he was unathletic is incorrect as well though.

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 09:50 PM
Did you ever watch him play? Cosider my age and that I live 20minutes from Boston, where every Celtics game road or home is local broadcast. So, yeah, I'm not the one basing it off some Youtube vids I saw.

yea I saw him play. my post wasn't directed to you. it was directed to the guy who said Bird wasn't athletic when he obviously was.

ezra76
04-25-2010, 09:51 PM
did you really post that?

Answered in your control panel.

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 09:54 PM
bird was far from an athletic freak. his speed, power, and explosiveness was far from elite. his genius and greatness lied in skill. not athleticism.

to say he was unathletic is incorrect as well though.

6'9 barely can dunk is well below average

Horns3
04-25-2010, 09:55 PM
highschool, aau, college.... etc

i have spent my entire life playing baseball.... of course you can be taught to hit a 90 mph fastball... but if you think the average highschool player can you are a ****ing idiot.

if you are throwing 90 mph in highschool... u will almost certainly get drafted. highchoolers rarely see 90 mph.

RoH4cgSUVCY
lol not where i'm from brah, we had two pitchers on my team that threw in the ninety's, they both went on to play college ball, the pitcher from my high school last year got clocked at 99 though and went first round mlb draft, it's not hard to hit a phuckin 90 mile an hour pitch though, if you're coordinated at all and have good reflexes lol, are you guys being serious?

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 09:59 PM
6'9 barely can dunk is well below average

barely? first dunk in this video needs more than average athleticism.

y300SqnSxtw

bird had a 28" vertical before his heels were destroyed. not a vince carter freak, but far from below average. and there's more to being an athlete than jumping ability.

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:00 PM
lol not where i'm from brah, we had two pitchers on my team that threw in the ninety's, they both went on to play college ball, the pitcher from my high school last year got clocked at 99 though and went first round mlb draft, it's not hard to hit a phuckin 90 mile an hour pitch though, if you're coordinated at all and have good reflexes lol, are you guys being serious?

u said it urself... every person u know to throw in the 90s when on to play at a higher level.

being clocked at 99 doesnt equal pitching at 99. ive been clocked at 96 srs. when in reality my fastball was 89/91.

making contact on a 90 mph fastball... i agree not that dificult. actually doing something with it... as in recognizing the spin of the laces, if its gonna break etc etc... and driving it with force... thats a whole other ball game. no pun.

now if u got to stand there and knew that u were gonna see nothing but 90 mph fastballs, making contact shouldnt be that difficult for a skilled highschool player.

still ther "average" american highschool baseball player would swing and miss 3 straight times.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 10:00 PM
barely? first dunk in this video needs more than average athleticism.

y300SqnSxtw

bird had a 28" vertical before his heels were destroyed. not a vince carter freak, but far from below average. and there's more to being an athlete than jumping ability.
this, bird's pretty damn athletic

imperialfool
04-25-2010, 10:00 PM
I think anyone could be a professional golfer. If you start at age 4/5, have rich parents that can take you to the green everyday/never have to work I don't see how you wouldn't be good enough by the time you were 20 or earlier.

I think this applies to baseball too, but less easy. If I had to grade them I'd say

golf > baseball > football > basketball (in easiness to go pro)

pretty sure basketball is the hardest sport to go pro in (because the league is so small) and because if you aren't 6'3+ you're pretty much ****ed.

CarpeD1em500
04-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Bull$hit. No matter how much you practice, you would never and will never be able to throw a 90mph. fastball. It's talent they are born with and learn to harness.

There's thousands of 6'8"-6'11" goofs out there trying to fit into cars and hitting their heads on doorways every day that aren't in the NBA. Plenty never even made div.1 benchwarmer. Hard work and practice plays some role but talent wins over any amount of hard work.

Also, whoever said "Larry Bird" is a retard. Jesus Christ, the guy only had one of the best jumpshots in NBA history... and if he wasn't that athletic, then how come nobody could gaurd him?

Lets skip the pitching thing because I think pitching is a unique category in sports, similar to throwing a football, that is probably linked to your muscular and skeletal structure. Personally I don't know for sure, but my shoulder might not have allowed that. I don't know and neither do you.


Lets talk about basketball or football instead, perhaps thinking about shooting jumpers or catching passes.

I would argue that if I really worked hard from like a 2 y/o level on my jumpshot, I could make a professional team. In nearly every other fashion of my body I am average, but if I had an unstoppable jumpshot from years of practice, I could become a professional basketball player.



Take a look at someone like JJ Reddick. Do you really think he's genetically superior to you, or do you just think he shot a million jumpers a day?







Also, to everyone in this thread, the question was "become a professional", not "become the BEST professional". Obviously you need talent + genetics + work ethic to be Michael Jordan. But you don't need all of those to become Adam Morrison, and they're both still professional athletes.

ezra76
04-25-2010, 10:01 PM
yea I saw him play. my post wasn't directed to you. it was directed to the guy who said Bird wasn't athletic when he obviously was.

OK, sorry. Yes, he did not have the highest vertical in the NBA. Probably was Spud Webb or later Kenny "Sky" Walker, lol. Yeah, to insinuate he was completely unathletic when he made these "athletes" look foolish trying to stop him is idiotic.


To get back on track, you have to have "it" to make it into the pro ranks. That would be the natural talent and ability, groomed and molded to make the absolute most of it.

IamaMotherLover
04-25-2010, 10:03 PM
barely? first dunk in this video needs more than average athleticism.

y300SqnSxtw

bird had a 28" vertical before his heels were destroyed. not a vince carter freak, but far from below average. and there's more to being an athlete than jumping ability.

at 6'9 no that is not hard

bird wasnt fast either

only had skill

Horns3
04-25-2010, 10:04 PM
u said it urself... every person u know to throw in the 90s when on to play at a higher level.

being clocked at 99 doesnt equal pitching at 99. ive been clocked at 96 srs. when in reality my fastball was 89/91.

making contact on a 90 mph fastball... i agree not that dificult. actually doing something with it... as in recognizing the spin of the laces, if its gonna break etc etc... and driving it with force... thats a whole other ball game. no pun.

now if u got to stand there and knew that u were gonna see nothing but 90 mph fastballs, making contact shouldnt be that difficult for a skilled highschool player.

still ther "average" american highschool baseball player would swing and miss 3 straight times.
possible, but you said anybody who's pitching in the 90's are going straight pro lol and that's just not the case, and he didn't just throw one pitch 99, his fastball when being clocked, on average was 97 mph

hittin junk is easier than hitting a fastball anyway, brb jackin a curve that they just hang out there, if you play baseball your entire life and are somewhat athletic, and are in a program with a coach with connections, you will do great things, even if you're just average

Tipys
04-25-2010, 10:06 PM
OK, sorry. Yes, he did not have the highest vertical in the NBA. Probably was Spud Webb or later Kenny "Sky" Walker, lol. Yeah, to insinuate he was completely unathletic when he made these "athletes" look foolish trying to stop him is idiotic.


To get back on track, you have to have "it" to make it into the pro ranks. That would be the natural talent and ability, groomed and molded to make the absolute most of it.

Have to disagree. Anything can be learned. Talent only makes it easier. There are plenty of people with talent that have never made it anywhere.


Also about your baseball stuff. Your saying this people just started throwing a ball and it magically happened?

Chitownkid
04-25-2010, 10:07 PM
barely? first dunk in this video needs more than average athleticism.

y300SqnSxtw

bird had a 28" vertical before his heels were destroyed. not a vince carter freak, but far from below average. and there's more to being an athlete than jumping ability.

28 inches is below average though....everyone knows bird wasnt athletic but the guy would practice all day nonstop which is why he was good

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 10:07 PM
at 6'9 no that is not hard

bird wasnt fast either

only had skill

brahs, let us all just facepalm and move on.

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:08 PM
possible, but you said anybody who's pitching in the 90's are going straight pro lol and that's just not the case, and he didn't just throw one pitch 99, his fastball when being clocked, on average was 97 mph

hittin junk is easier than hitting a fastball anyway, brb jackin a curve that they just hang out there, if you play baseball your entire life and are somewhat athletic, and are in a program with a coach with connections, you will do great things, even if you're just average

i said if u throw 90 u will get drafted. not go straight pro.

most players who get drafted dont play in the majors for like 5 or 6 years.

everybody gets drafted in baseball.... its just that alot of the fringe talent chooses college instead of wasting away make 20k a year in the minors.

unless you a 1st rounder, most players dont sign with the team that drafted them. the baseball draft is the one draft u dont even have to declare for... plus its like a million rounds long and people who never played baseball get drafted. mike vick got drafted.

id be willing to bet that 90% of D1 baseballers got drafted.... if u ever watch the college world series they usually will tell u how most of them have already been drafted.

ezra76
04-25-2010, 10:10 PM
I think anyone could be a professional golfer. If you start at age 4/5, have rich parents that can take you to the green everyday/never have to work I don't see how you wouldn't be good enough by the time you were 20 or earlier.

I think this applies to baseball too, but less easy. If I had to grade them I'd say

golf > baseball > football > basketball (in easiness to go pro)

pretty sure basketball is the hardest sport to go pro in (because the league is so small) and because if you aren't 6'3+ you're pretty much ****ed.

I see you don't play golf, lol. Just as hard or harder. "League" is smaller than the NBA. Anyone can turn pro in golf, you just won't make any money at it. They have a pro event at the local course I play on. Winner gets $3K. Pro's from all over New England play in it. Last year they had a 3 man playoff after 3 guys shot back to back 61's. (22 under par in 36holes) These guys might be like single A to a major leaguer if they are lucky to a PGA tour pro.

Don't let the physiques fool you. Golf probably takes the most skill of any sport to be a PGA tour pro.

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 10:11 PM
28 inches is below average though....everyone knows bird wasnt athletic but the guy would practice all day nonstop which is why he was good

actually the NBA average vertical is 28" in recent years. it was lower 25 years ago. in 2006 nba draft camp, the 5th best vertical was only 34". the freakiest of the freak leapers are the ones hitting 40+". vince carter in the 2000 dunk contest was only hitting 36-37" and that was with a running start. and karl malone had the same 28" vertical as larry bird. waiting to see someone say karl malone wasn't athletic. there's more to being an athlete than jumping straight up from a stand-still position.

lacey23
04-25-2010, 10:11 PM
I think anyone could be a professional golfer. If you start at age 4/5, have rich parents that can take you to the green everyday/never have to work I don't see how you wouldn't be good enough by the time you were 20 or earlier.

I think this applies to baseball too, but less easy. If I had to grade them I'd say

golf > baseball > football > basketball (in easiness to go pro)

pretty sure basketball is the hardest sport to go pro in (because the league is so small) and because if you aren't 6'3+ you're pretty much ****ed.

There's no way everyone could be a pro golfer if you're talking about the PGA. Sure if you're talking about some of the smaller tours.


There are piles and piles of people that eat, sleep, and breath golf with +4 handicaps that will never get to the show. Think of all the colleges, and Univerisities that have golf programs around the world, and how dedicated all of them are to the game. You need some natural talent. For example Jack Nicklaus played his first 9 holes of golf when he was 10 years old, and shot a 51. I bet 75% of the grown men in the sports section couldn't golf a 51.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 10:12 PM
i said if u throw 90 u will get drafted. not go straight pro.

most players who get drafted dont play in the majors for like 5 or 6 years.

everybody gets drafted in baseball.... its just that alot of the fringe talent chooses college instead of wasting away make 20k a year in the minors.

unless you a 1st rounder, most players dont sign with the team that drafted them. the baseball draft is the one draft u dont even have to declare for... plus its like a million rounds long and people who never played baseball get drafted. mike vick got drafted.

id be willing to bet that 90% of D1 baseballers got drafted.... if u ever watch the college world series they usually will tell u how most of them have already been drafted.
yeah i know brah, the guy who got drafted from my school last year still has offers from texas and tamu, he's already spent fukin 4.0 million of his signing bonus too, he's a fuking idiot and will be in bigtime debt soon

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:15 PM
yeah i know brah, the guy who got drafted from my school last year still has offers from texas and tamu, he's already spent fukin 4.0 million of his signing bonus too, he's a fuking idiot and will be in bigtime debt soon

what did he buy?

did he use any hgh or roids in highschool?

if i cycled a few times i really think i could get my fastball up to 93/4... would be worth at least half a million. haha. think about it everyday...

but i gave up anyway... moved onto basketball now. :'(

Chitownkid
04-25-2010, 10:16 PM
actually the NBA average vertical is 28" in recent years. it was lower 25 years ago. in 2006 nba draft camp, the 5th best vertical was only 34". the freakiest of the freak leapers are the ones hitting 40+". vince carter in the 2000 dunk contest was only hitting 36-37". and karl malone had the same 28" vertical as larry bird. waiting to see someone say karl malone wasn't athletic. there's more to being an athlete than jumping straight up from a stand-still position.

are you talking about running or standing vert?.......and the draftcamp numbers are kind of bs it said noah had a 37 inch vert

ezra76
04-25-2010, 10:17 PM
Have to disagree. Anything can be learned. Talent only makes it easier. There are plenty of people with talent that have never made it anywhere.


Also about your baseball stuff. Your saying this people just started throwing a ball and it magically happened?

Then how come you are not a pro? There are plenty of people with talent that never make it anywhere.... but none without talent that ever make it anywhere.

You cannot learn to throw a 95mph fastball. You either can or you can't. If you can and you work your ass off and learn a few other pitches, along with pinpoint control of that fastball, then you end up in the big leagues.

I think a lot of you guys vastly, vastly underestimate how good professional athletes are. They are the .0001% of the .00001%.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 10:21 PM
what did he buy?

did he use any hgh or roids in highschool?

if i cycled a few times i really think i could get my fastball up to 93/4... would be worth at least half a million. haha. think about it everyday...

but i gave up anyway... moved onto basketball now. :'(
no lol, he was always an accurate pitcher growing up, we all knew he was special and everything, he just ended up growing like four inches in high school and started to concentrate on just baseball, he wasn't recruited too much until he threw three no hitters in a row, then the offers started piling in

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:24 PM
no lol, he was always an accurate pitcher growing up, we all knew he was special and everything, he just ended up growing like four inches in high school and started to concentrate on just baseball, he wasn't recruited too much until he threw three no hitters in a row, then the offers started piling in

oh damn u talkin bout patrick schuster? i remember that story.

Horns3
04-25-2010, 10:26 PM
oh damn u talkin bout patrick schuster? i remember that story.
nope not him, talkin bout this dude that went to the high school i graduated from last year

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
are you talking about running or standing vert?.......and the draftcamp numbers are kind of bs it said noah had a 37 inch vert

all the numbers i've seen were standing unless otherwise stated.

i mean it's not super well documented because it doesn't really matter as much to NBA teams as NFL. if you can ball you can ball. and if you can do 180 dunks in traffic over 3 players on an elite team, generally you have some athleticism in you.

larry bird was not steve kerr living off double-team kick-outs shooting open threes. he dominated the ball often and no one could stop him from doing whatever he wanted to do. don't gotta dribble like skip to my lou and run a 40 and jump like reggie bush to be an athlete. that's all im saying.

and again, bird and karl malone had the same vertical leap. malone was a freak athlete. even 2 of his illegitimate kids are playing in the pros right now without any mentoring from him, and the 3rd one played D1 ball too. all those athlete genes were inherited from their father with his 28" vertical.

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:31 PM
all the numbers i've seen were standing unless otherwise stated.

i mean it's not super well documented because it doesn't really matter as much to NBA teams as NFL. if you can ball you can ball. and if you can do 180 dunks in traffic over 3 players on an elite team, generally you have some athleticism in you.

larry bird was not steve kerr living off double-team kick-outs shooting open threes. he dominated the ball often and no one could stop him from doing whatever he wanted to do. don't gotta dribble like skip to my lou and run a 40 and jump like reggie bush to be an athlete. that's all im saying.

and again, bird and karl malone had the same vertical leap. malone was a freak athlete. even 2 of his illegitimate kids are playing in the pros right now without any mentoring from him, and the 3rd one played D1 ball too. all those athlete genes were inherited from their father with his 28" vertical.

malone was a physical speciman more than he was an athletic freak.

size is genetic... not skill so much,

Chitownkid
04-25-2010, 10:33 PM
all the numbers i've seen were standing unless otherwise stated.

i mean it's not super well documented because it doesn't really matter as much to NBA teams as NFL. if you can ball you can ball. and if you can do 180 dunks in traffic over 3 players on an elite team, generally you have some athleticism in you.

larry bird was not steve kerr living off double-team kick-outs shooting open threes. he dominated the ball often and no one could stop him from doing whatever he wanted to do. don't gotta dribble like skip to my lou and run a 40 and jump like reggie bush to be an athlete. that's all im saying.

and again, bird and karl malone had the same vertical leap. malone was a freak athlete. even 2 of his illegitimate kids are playing in the pros right now without any mentoring from him, and the 3rd one played D1 ball too. all those athlete genes were inherited from their father with his 28" vertical.

there is no way they had the same vertical unless malone just had a way longer reach........i know bird is great but thats the point he made it based off hard work not genetics

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 10:39 PM
there is no way they had the same vertical unless malone just had a way longer reach........i know bird is great but thats the point he made it based off hard work not genetics

idk brah, that's what listed everywhere i've ever seen.

also listed.. bird's reach = 9'1" & malone's reach = 9'2"

lamar odom & shaq = 32" vert. kobe = 38", magic = 30"

jakobi
04-25-2010, 10:40 PM
why do you think black athletes dominate the physical sports out there

will you ever see a non black lebron james type of player? Never

Al_Pal
04-25-2010, 10:41 PM
why do you think black athletes dominate the physical sports out there

will you ever see a non black lebron james type of player? Never

alot of that comes down to options... blacks see it as their only chance, dedicate their lives to the sport.

whites see a lot of options... realize they have a better chance to become a doctor or a lawyer and quit practicing 4 hours a day.

Daewoo_Lanos
04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
why do you think black athletes dominate the physical sports out there

will you ever see a non black lebron james type of player? Never

how about a white vince carter?

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killerthrilller
04-25-2010, 10:43 PM
alot of that comes down to options... blacks see it as their only chance, dedicate their lives to the sport.

whites see a lot of options... realize they have a better chance to become a doctor or a lawyer and quit practicing 4 hours a day.

strong racist

Tipys
04-25-2010, 10:57 PM
Then how come you are not a pro? There are plenty of people with talent that never make it anywhere.... but none without talent that ever make it anywhere.

You cannot learn to throw a 95mph fastball. You either can or you can't. If you can and you work your ass off and learn a few other pitches, along with pinpoint control of that fastball, then you end up in the big leagues.

I think a lot of you guys vastly, vastly underestimate how good professional athletes are. They are the .0001% of the .00001%.


Because I don't want to be a pro. I am working on what I want to do right now.

I think you are mistaking talent for skill. There are alot of people that didn't have talent that have made it places because they were driven.


EVERYTHING CAN BE LEARNED. If you try hard enough. People just give up to easy and make excuses for why they aren't were they are. ''Its easier to quite then push yourself.''

Tipys
04-25-2010, 11:00 PM
why do you think black athletes dominate the physical sports out there

will you ever see a non black lebron james type of player? Never

Wayne Gretzky. Micheal Phelps. Lance Armstrong. Thats to list just a few. Little more then never. Why people got to play the race card?

Al_Pal
04-26-2010, 09:23 AM
strong racist

u r a ****ing moron if you think that was racist. thats called reality. born n raised on the south side of chicago bro... i have witnessed and been victim of that mentality myself

"either you sellin crack rock or you got a wicked jumpshot"

EHSTennis
04-26-2010, 09:37 AM
yeah like said here, i think its possible to become a professional backup/benchwarmer by playing a sport since the age of 4-5, start working out at 13-14, and keep playing that sport up until you're 18.

but i think most of the starters in any sport are there because they worked as much and as hard as everyone else, but they have the athletic ability that was given to them, and thats what puts them over the top. This reminds me of that pros vs joes show. the joes are former college athletes and minor league players and stuff, and the pros are old professional sports players. the pros sh!t all over the joes everytime because even though the joes are solid athletes and are strong and know how to play, the pros are just simply bigger faster and stronger than them even at 40 or 45 like some of these guys are.

Adonish-AOE14
04-26-2010, 10:30 AM
I have a question for everyone here. Do you guys think its possible for someone with great athletic genetics to go pro from the age of 20? Me and a friend had a discussion about this and I said it's way too late at 20...

gmenfan40
04-26-2010, 10:38 AM
Some of the best professional athletes aren't even that great athletes, there just great at their sport rather than being a dominate athlete. Why do you think you see so many natural genetic freaks in the nfl draft become busts? They lack the natural instinct to be good.

gmenfan40
04-26-2010, 10:43 AM
I have a question for everyone here. Do you guys think its possible for someone with great athletic genetics to go pro from the age of 20? Me and a friend had a discussion about this and I said it's way too late at 20...

WTF, if anything 20 is too young to become a pro in most sports as you haven't reached your full potential yet.

Briangumble
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
WTF, if anything 20 is too young to become a pro in most sports as you haven't reached your full potential yet.

I think he meant if you started training for a sport at 20.

Adonish-AOE14
04-26-2010, 02:16 PM
I think he meant if you started training for a sport at 20.
Yeah this is what I meant.

A 20 year old has background in a sport, he's played it throughout his life but mostly intramural play and just with friends. He has great athletic genes, very athletic, but if said person wanted to try and go professional, you think 20 years old is too old?

lacey23
04-26-2010, 04:17 PM
If you had the natural talent that you needed to be a pro you woulda realized a long time ago and made it past intermurals.


@ 20 years old you don't have the time to do it, or the resources. There's not a lot of highly competitive leagues, and coaching out there for people in their 20's jsut starting out.

Might have a shot at the Senior PGA tour, but that's about it.