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Ohio33
04-02-2010, 06:12 PM
I got a question about how elite college and pro football players at the leaner positions (RB TE WR LB DB) stay ripped and yet are able to put on muscle with no fat. For example a college freshmen Safety might come in at 170 and 9 % BF and leave as 200 lb senior with even lower bodyfat %. Yet numerous people state that it is impossible(muscle=calorie surplus fat loss=calorie deficit). I mean I dont think many football players bulk they just lift hard along with running drills/practice.

Throwing out the whole drug and genetic excuse because a lot of them get results and success purely from hardwork and I believe many people use throw out those reasons as a cop out. How is it realistically done?

For example guys like Terrell Owens who is example of hardwork, Vernon Davis, Ben Watson, Brian Orakpo, Brady Quinn, and even older football players like Christian Okoye who squat 725 lbs and was ripped at 250 lbs and Junior Seau.

I'm just curious to here some of your opinions because I know many on here play or played football.

Niko49ers
04-02-2010, 06:34 PM
Why train and eat like a body builder if you aren't one?

Football players eat and train like football players.

Bodybuilders eat and train like body builders.

Ohio33
04-02-2010, 06:44 PM
Why train and eat like a body builder if you aren't one?

Football players eat and train like football players.

Bodybuilders eat and train like body builders.
Duh.
What are you refering to? I never mentioned bodybuilding
I said I wonder how they build muscle without gaining fat since so many think it is impossible

xxtwistedxx
04-02-2010, 07:33 PM
just like you said its about calorie deficit verse intake. but what are the calories?? if they are getting in the right amount of protein, carbs, and fats then their body will continue to grow and build while still maintaining a low bodyfat percentage. not to mention if a 170lb safety goes into college 5 years is a loooong time on a legit program to put on 30lbs of lean mass. hell thats only less that 7lbs a muscle yearly.

not to mention some kids never really lift before a college signing....i.e. kids that just bench and curl all day during highschool but have that genetic ability to just be better than everyone.

GodsAngina
04-02-2010, 07:45 PM
I got a question about how elite college and pro football players at the leaner positions (RB TE WR LB DB) stay ripped and yet are able to put on muscle with no fat. For example a college freshmen Safety might come in at 170 and 9 % BF and leave as 200 lb senior with even lower bodyfat %. Yet numerous people state that it is impossible(muscle=calorie surplus fat loss=calorie deficit). I mean I dont think many football players bulk they just lift hard along with running drills/practice.

Throwing out the whole drug and genetic excuse because a lot of them get results and success purely from hardwork and I believe many people use throw out those reasons as a cop out. How is it realistically done?

For example guys like Terrell Owens who is example of hardwork, Vernon Davis, Ben Watson, Brian Orakpo, Brady Quinn, and even older football players like Christian Okoye who squat 725 lbs and was ripped at 250 lbs and Junior Seau.

I'm just curious to here some of your opinions because I know many on here play or played football.

you can't throw out drugs/genetics because those are the reasons

Ohio33
04-02-2010, 08:18 PM
you can't throw out drugs/genetics because those are the reasons

You honestly think that every D-1 or NFL player with a nice physique is on some type of illegal PEDs?

So iyo no one can acheive a ripped muscular physique without assistance?

Ohio33
04-02-2010, 08:20 PM
just like you said its about calorie deficit verse intake. but what are the calories?? if they are getting in the right amount of protein, carbs, and fats then their body will continue to grow and build while still maintaining a low bodyfat percentage. not to mention if a 170lb safety goes into college 5 years is a loooong time on a legit program to put on 30lbs of lean mass. hell thats only less that 7lbs a muscle yearly.

not to mention some kids never really lift before a college signing....i.e. kids that just bench and curl all day during highschool but have that genetic ability to just be better than everyone.

lol Very true what you said about some HS kids and their lifting.

MantisStriker
04-02-2010, 08:26 PM
Have you seen the weight training regimens these guys undergo plus all those drills and football pratice?

I dont know how you could get through without steroids especially to the pro-level

benching 500 lbs and squatting over 700-800 lbs is insane

especially when u include all the power movements they do such as power cleans etc.

then they gotta practice and do drills?

man that has to take extreme toll on your body, steroids sound like a good solution

Ohio33
04-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Have you seen the weight training regimens these guys undergo plus all those drills and football pratice?

I dont know how you could get through without steroids especially to the pro-level

benching 500 lbs and squatting over 700-800 lbs is insane

especially when u include all the power movements they do such as power cleans etc.

then they gotta practice and do drills?

man that has to take extreme toll on your body, steroids sound like a good solution

Many avid lifters have acomplished those bench and squat numbers without taking roids. You cant go on that.

I have benched 430 and I have never took anything. I think too many of us are too quick to throw the accusation of PEDs. It has became the in thing to do since the media has pushed the issue in baseball so far. Yes obviously some athletes take things but not every one does.

Newsince
04-03-2010, 02:39 AM
Many avid lifters have acomplished those bench and squat numbers without taking roids. You cant go on that.

I have benched 430 and I have never took anything. I think too many of us are too quick to throw the accusation of PEDs. It has became the in thing to do since the media has pushed the issue in baseball so far. Yes obviously some athletes take things but not every one does.

College athletic directors and football coaches probably have a hard stance on steroids. They seriously are for those who are of weak mental fortitude. When me and my team get in the weight room, its all about taking care of business. We use standard proteins and multi-vitamins, and we are in there squatting 225 for a warmup. People can argue all day about what makes a college/NFL player better, whether it be steroids etc., but in my opinion, its the team mentality that pushes everybody to work harder. My body will break before I fail my team mates.

Ohio33
04-03-2010, 06:20 AM
College athletic directors and football coaches probably have a hard stance on steroids. They seriously are for those who are of weak mental fortitude. When me and my team get in the weight room, its all about taking care of business. We use standard proteins and multi-vitamins, and we are in there squatting 225 for a warmup. People can argue all day about what makes a college/NFL player better, whether it be steroids etc., but in my opinion, its the team mentality that pushes everybody to work harder. My body will break before I fail my team mates.

Thanks for your reply. I think many of us dont realize what we can accomplished physically if we truly push ourselves not just elite athletes but everyday lifters who want to improve themselves physically. I think football players are a big representative of that.

GodsAngina
04-03-2010, 12:42 PM
You honestly think that every D-1 or NFL player with a nice physique is on some type of illegal PEDs?

So iyo no one can acheive a ripped muscular physique without assistance?

drugs/genetics are why nfl players are superhuman

GoofyGoober
04-03-2010, 01:20 PM
99% of NFL/D I football players have been playing ball since they can walk and have probably been lifting weights since middle school.

So a senior in college has undertaken strenuous exercise for 15-18 years and has been lifting for 12-9 years


Not to mention you can push harder in the weight room with 4 screaming coaches and 30 teammates watching you

NeedPerfection
04-03-2010, 02:09 PM
Why train and eat like a body builder if you aren't one?

Football players eat and train like football players.

Bodybuilders eat and train like body builders.

I agree.

Ohio33
04-03-2010, 09:16 PM
I agree.

Not to be smart but where did I even refer to bodybuilding in my post?

MantisStriker
04-04-2010, 02:34 AM
Many avid lifters have acomplished those bench and squat numbers without taking roids. You cant go on that.

I have benched 430 and I have never took anything. I think too many of us are too quick to throw the accusation of PEDs. It has became the in thing to do since the media has pushed the issue in baseball so far. Yes obviously some athletes take things but not every one does.

so what if u have benched 430 naturally

did you do that with other power movements?

did u play football?

drills, sprinting, etc.

that sh*t take's a big toll on your body especially when were talking about big numbers in the weight room

i know ball players and other athletes and believe me, juice is used

that stuff breaks your body down soo much creatine and bcaa aint gonna save ya alone

newkillerstar
04-04-2010, 02:40 AM
Drugs and genetics are the only reasons when you get to the top lol - most people can get to a high level of fitness, then genes and drugs separate the good from the best. Drugs tested does not mean drug free!!!

If most people were able to have the physique of an nfl player surely everyone would - the fact of the matter is that there are people who really want to be the best and train and work really hard but are always beaten by someone who either has the genes or the drugs.

I admit hard cases make bad laws but look at Usain Bolt - even if everyone trained like him they couldn't run as fast as him, because naturally he is a fast person!!! He is for all intents and purposes unique!

newkillerstar
04-04-2010, 02:47 AM
College athletic directors and football coaches probably have a hard stance on steroids. They seriously are for those who are of weak mental fortitude. When me and my team get in the weight room, its all about taking care of business. We use standard proteins and multi-vitamins, and we are in there squatting 225 for a warmup. People can argue all day about what makes a college/NFL player better, whether it be steroids etc., but in my opinion, its the team mentality that pushes everybody to work harder. My body will break before I fail my team mates.

Someone could easily be on a g of test a week and you wouldn't know. It's very much a backstage thing, no ones going to chat about it openly. Conventional steroids aren't the only thing you can take as well -> performance enhancing drugs are normally a season or three ahead of a ban (a bit like 'legal highs' in the uk actually)

Ohio33
04-04-2010, 08:42 PM
so what if u have benched 430 naturally

did you do that with other power movements?

did u play football?

drills, sprinting, etc.

that sh*t take's a big toll on your body especially when were talking about big numbers in the weight room

i know ball players and other athletes and believe me, juice is used

that stuff breaks your body down soo much creatine and bcaa aint gonna save ya alone

Your missing my point first foremost

The reason I mentioned my bench press number was because you threw out numbers that can be acheived naturally and yes I train the other two lifts along with other exercises. I also run(sprinting and HIIT) and play basketball.

Also football players arent lifting huge max numbers during the season its only in the offseason. In season it is about maintaining. Second your point about your body breaking down is where nutrition comes to play. You have realize big college/pro athletes pretty much have access to unlimited nutrition experts. Yes it will take a toll on your body but who said that being a pro athlete was easy. Im not saying that every football player is drug free because that would be dumb but to say that every elite football player is on something is to other extreme.

People use the steroid excuse too much in our society. People don't realize that the advancements in fitness technology plays a big factor in the improved athlete. To your guys other point about Usain Bolt, I did not mean that genetics dont play a role my point was that even with genetics you still have work at what you are doing. Many people dont realize what they can accomplish because they don't push themselves to their absolute potential.

Thats does not mean everybody is going to be Michael Jordan or Usain Bolt but that the person could be suprised with what they can accomplish

Also do you know for a fact that all these elite football players take something or do you just assume they do?

Anyway I was just looking for insight about football players

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 09:20 PM
so what if u have benched 430 naturally

did you do that with other power movements?

did u play football?

drills, sprinting, etc.

that sh*t take's a big toll on your body especially when were talking about big numbers in the weight room

i know ball players and other athletes and believe me, juice is used

that stuff breaks your body down soo much creatine and bcaa aint gonna save ya alone

It is people like you who create accusation without warrant. I used to play college football (Im sure you will want the name). Our team worked hard in the weight room and nobody used steroids or any other illegal supplements. We didnt need them. Football lifting is about heavy lifting and low reps (which is less wear and tear suprisngly) to gain and keep strength. Yeah it can get tough but it was not a reason to take anything. The muscle just comes with it we didnt focus on building muscle just strength and endurance training.

About the pros of course there some using illegal things(as well as college) to get an edge but not as many as you would think. Guys really work there tail off genetics are the biggest thing coming from ex college player. Pros simply are the best of the best and majority believe or not did get there naturally.

To the OP football players physiques are attributed to sound nutrition. We focus on strength/explosiveness. Coaches told us to fill up on plenty of proteins along with pasta and fruits/vegetables. Things like creatine and whey protein were not really endorsed by coaches just real food. The majority of football (even in college or at least the big colleges) players follow a fairly sound diet.

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Someone could easily be on a g of test a week and you wouldn't know. It's very much a backstage thing, no ones going to chat about it openly. Conventional steroids aren't the only thing you can take as well -> performance enhancing drugs are normally a season or three ahead of a ban (a bit like 'legal highs' in the uk actually)

How familar are you with NCAA drug testing? Anything out of the ordinary is detected. Everything is random. Things like too much caffeine can be illegal if a real high dose. Trust me coaches really look out for following policy their not even allowed to provide supplements outside of protein/energy bars. Plus coaches know how spot something out of the ordinary.

akmal21
04-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Well I play college football and I didn't realize until i got here that so many people on the team take **** like tren and winny.....we gotta Guy benchin 495 and reppin 375 for 4 sets of 12 in bench....pretty much every junior or sophmore has tried it..just not in highschool

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 09:50 PM
so what if u have benched 430 naturally

did you do that with other power movements?

did u play football?

drills, sprinting, etc.

that sh*t take's a big toll on your body especially when were talking about big numbers in the weight room

i know ball players and other athletes and believe me, juice is used

that stuff breaks your body down soo much creatine and bcaa aint gonna save ya alone

So with your way of thinking football is the only sport that wears and tears your body? So natural powerlifters and olympic lifters can't get wore down since their sport is only lifting and dont run? natural basketball players cant get wore down since they run but dont lift real heavy weight? Any sport can wear down the body. Is every tennis player (lot of wear and tear) taking things? what about soccer players? what about cross country runners? Injuries happen in any sport.

It is about sacrifice if you want something you fight through the pain. Dont use the roid excuse.

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 09:55 PM
Well I play college football and I didn't realize until i got here that so many people on the team take **** like tren and winny.....we gotta Guy benchin 495 and reppin 375 for 4 sets of 12 in bench....pretty much every junior or sophmore has tried it..just not in highschool

The max number is not unheard of. But the rep numbers you mention are insane. Your coaches don't notice this? Our coaches said that they could spot out unnatural weight achievements(drastic muscle increase in a short time, rapid strength, mood change).

moose45
04-04-2010, 10:17 PM
The max number is not unheard of. But the rep numbers you mention are insane. Your coaches don't notice this? Our coaches said that they could spot out unnatural weight achievements(drastic muscle increase in a short time, rapid strength, mood change).

I know that some coaches like to win, and those numbers probably please the coach and it really doesn't matter if they are juicin.
Also, there have been many people who claim to spot out "unnatural weight achievements." It doesn't mean they can.

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 10:33 PM
so what if u have benched 430 naturally

did you do that with other power movements?

did u play football?

drills, sprinting, etc.

that sh*t take's a big toll on your body especially when were talking about big numbers in the weight room

i know ball players and other athletes and believe me, juice is used

that stuff breaks your body down soo much creatine and bcaa aint gonna save ya alone

Also to the OP dont let people like this shoot down your accomplishment. Getting 430 on the bench is damn good. At your age your strength has not even come close to peaking. Keep getting stronger naturally and good luck.

akmal21
04-04-2010, 10:51 PM
The max number is not unheard of. But the rep numbers you mention are insane. Your coaches don't notice this? Our coaches said that they could spot out unnatural weight achievements(drastic muscle increase in a short time, rapid strength, mood change).

I can't say the college but ill tell u this coach isn't stupid and ain't gonna say nuthin....another Guy on our team just recently hit 305 Bench 3 times 3 sets and 2 weeks ago hit 265 3 times squat jumped from 405 to like 485....mine only went from 365 to 405 in 7 weeks...

Whatchawant
04-04-2010, 10:54 PM
I can't say the college but ill tell u this coach isn't stupid and ain't gonna say nuthin....another Guy on our team just recently hit 305 Bench 3 times 3 sets and 2 weeks ago hit 265 3 times squat jumped from 405 to like 485....mine only went from 365 to 405 in 7 weeks...

man thats crazy. Your strength will keep coming up and just continue to work hard.
Good luck.

MantisStriker
04-09-2010, 11:07 PM
for all you little whiners out there when it comes to playing sports at the Elite level...steroids and other illegal enhanceers will come into play

as far as the person referring to olympic lifters not gonna even comment lol

DA_MOSS
04-10-2010, 12:11 AM
It is people like you who create accusation without warrant. I used to play college football (Im sure you will want the name). Our team worked hard in the weight room and nobody used steroids or any other illegal supplements.We didnt need them. Football lifting is about heavy lifting and low reps (which is less wear and tear suprisngly) to gain and keep strength. Yeah it can get tough but it was not a reason to take anything. The muscle just comes with it we didnt focus on building muscle just strength and endurance training.

About the pros of course there some using illegal things(as well as college) to get an edge but not as many as you would think. Guys really work there tail off genetics are the biggest thing coming from ex college player. Pros simply are the best of the best and majority believe or not did get there naturally.

To the OP football players physiques are attributed to sound nutrition. We focus on strength/explosiveness. Coaches told us to fill up on plenty of proteins along with pasta and fruits/vegetables. Things like creatine and whey protein were not really endorsed by coaches just real food. The majority of football (even in college or at least the big colleges) players follow a fairly sound diet.


So you're 100% positive that not 1 of the other 100 people on your team took anything illegal? hahaha no

I played baseball in the SEC and I can GUARANTEE you that 15-20% of our team took something.. With the football team, you could probably double that...

bboy74
04-10-2010, 12:39 AM
Why train and eat like a body builder if you aren't one?

Football players eat and train like football players.

Bodybuilders eat and train like body builders.

A weight program and nutrition is for optimal output by an athlete regardless of what sport he or she may be engaged in. Football, wrestling, basketball, hockey, boxing, etc. Conditioning and diet for these sports have been taken from bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is more than a sport, it is a lifestyle that any elite athlete needs to follow.

bboy74
04-10-2010, 12:41 AM
Have you seen the weight training regimens these guys undergo plus all those drills and football pratice?

I dont know how you could get through without steroids especially to the pro-level

benching 500 lbs and squatting over 700-800 lbs is insane

especially when u include all the power movements they do such as power cleans etc.

then they gotta practice and do drills?

man that has to take extreme toll on your body, steroids sound like a good solution


Drills and lifting are not done at the same time. Besides most of the players strength and muscle gains come from the off season. During the season they lift to maintain that level.

Angelexodus
04-12-2010, 09:23 PM
I like all the people saying my cousins best friend's little sister did this guy that could have played football and he says they all take steroids. Most of you haven't even played college football let alone D-1. The majority of D-1 football players do NOT take steroids. Now I am not saying that you don't have the few that do because steroids are so prevalent in today's society that you will see it to a degree in ever sport especially one like football. But the large majority do not. And you know exactly who on your team takes steroids and who doesn't it is not hard to figure out.

As for the drug testing only the NCAA tests for steroid use. The normal drug tests only test for THC, caffeine, and a random drug. My random drug always seemed to be ecstasy, which I thought was weird. And if you really want to talk about some crap some college coaches will actually test some players more than they will others because they know they will pass. I got tested 4 times my freshman year while the ghetto kids always got conveniently skipped even though they are suppose to be tested an even amount.

Like goofygoober said most of these athletes started playing in the 5th grade at the age of 10 or 11. That is 10+ years of straight working out all year long. Whether its gaining in the offseason or maintaining during the season.

LC83
04-12-2010, 10:25 PM
99% of NFL/D I football players have been playing ball since they can walk and have probably been lifting weights since middle school.

So a senior in college has undertaken strenuous exercise for 15-18 years and has been lifting for 12-9 years


Not to mention you can push harder in the weight room with 4 screaming coaches and 30 teammates watching you

False! A great number of college players did not start until high school, a few did not even play until late in their HS career. I didn't personally know of a single person who plays college ball now who was consistently lifting in middle school. Our defensive player of the year and first team all conference LB was a 195 safety coming out of high school. He did not lift much at his HS, one year later he was a 220 pound linebacker with safety speed and quickness. Your finding that the youth league kids are the ones who get burnt out and stop playing even before HS in some instances.

The_Terrorist
04-13-2010, 05:27 AM
False! A great number of college players did not start until high school, a few did not even play until late in their HS career. I didn't personally know of a single person who plays college ball now who was consistently lifting in middle school. Our defensive player of the year and first team all conference LB was a 195 safety coming out of high school. He did not lift much at his HS, one year later he was a 220 pound linebacker with safety speed and quickness. Your finding that the youth league kids are the ones who get burnt out and stop playing even before HS in some instances.

Very true

chuckiechan43
04-13-2010, 09:05 AM
ok i see a lot of people saying that football players take steroids thats not the case because i play college ball and the thing is its all about the work we put in like my training schedule is i wourkout in the morning and its heavy lifting we do alot of olympic lifts like clean, squat, and jerk and then in the afternoon we come back and practice from 2-3 hours that really does take a toll but the thing is players now are at the peak of the physical strength so players can do all that and get up the next day and do it again no problem we arent as sore as someone older would be and the thing is when your at that level of playing you get used to having such a work schdule so it may seem really bad to someone thats not an athlete but for us its really not as bad as it seems

paulstar35
04-13-2010, 02:32 PM
First off you can gain muscle and lose fat. Your body will burn the fat which is just stored energy. Second football players do bulk in the off season to make up for the mass lost during the season.

cleothompson123
04-22-2015, 10:22 PM
So you're 100% positive that not 1 of the other 100 people on your team took anything illegal? hahaha no

I played baseball in the SEC and I can GUARANTEE you that 15-20% of our team took something.. With the football team, you could probably double that...

I recognize that this thread is old as dirt, but I couldn't resist leaving my input because your comment brought back a lot of memories. I played SEC football. When I reported for summer training camp as an incoming freshman, I was a tall lanky kid who would was completely na´ve and would never cheat or play dirty. I was a pretty good athlete and fairly big and strong for someone who was still growing, but my official measurements at weigh-in were 6'4" and 237 lbs. My one rep max on bench was 345 lbs. that day, which was pretty good for the other tall guys, squat was 405 (which was considerably more than I had ever attempted before) and I power cleaned 245 (again, more than I had ever attempted before). I spent the next two years lifting heavy six days per week and eating big. I grew about an inch, got my weight up to 255 at a slightly higher bodyfat (10% by caliper, 17% by body impedance) got my max bench up to 405, my squat up to 500 and my power clean up to 295. In retrospect, that was pretty impressive but I was just completely confounded that there were people who were outpacing me and other people that were blowing me out of the water.

There was an upperclassman who was obviously on all kinds of gear who tore his biceps tendon while straight-bar curling 225 lbs. Another who was getting into trouble at school and afterhours for fighting who, after receiving an ultimatum from the head coach, mysteriously dropped about 25 lbs. from September to September and was riddled with stretchmarks, there was the running back who was CHISELED out of granite and inexplicable ran people over and could rep my flat bench max on the incline bench and the offensive lineman who was the biggest, strongest, meanest and, probably, most dangerous human I will ever meet who later ran afoul of the NFL's substance abuse policy. Those guys were obvious. The guys who were less obvious were the guys that were just outpacing me. I stayed at school all summer so I could enjoy the support of our strength coaches and knock out some easy credit hours so I wouldn't have to take more than 12 hours during the season, those guys all went home for the summer. They always came back a little bigger and a little stronger than me and it frustrated me to no end. Then I realized that if I wasn't cheating, I wasn't trying... Not at my position anyway.

The guys who made it to the NFL were the guys who had completely sold out. Education and life-after-football were just afterthoughts. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that all of those guys were enhanced (and I know for a fact that a little less than half of them were). Nor would I be surprised to learn that the percentage of non-kickers in the NFL who have NEVER ENHANCED is pretty close to zero, particularly for guys who put their hand in the dirt.

In any event, college football players who aren't enhancing do gain weight while losing fat. It isn't complicated, really... It's just a matter of (I) being between the ages of 18 and 22, (ii) having a competent strength coach cracking a whip over you every day, (iii) consuming about 10,500 calories per day and (iv) burning about 10,250 calories per day.