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View Full Version : Hack squats, Stiff legged deadlift, and p90x ab ripper



OokahOokah
03-30-2010, 02:21 PM
Okay so I been trying to raise my overall body strength and it's been to no avail, been trying since last November. Tried Ws4SB but I'm pretty weak so I changed from that to starting strength...that didn't really work either...

Anyways, I go to Bally total fitness and one of the Personal trainers there put me on a bodybuilding routine. It's pretty nice but this guy is starting to annoy me. He never wants to like take time to help me when I need help. Like last night I wanted him to watch me squat and he just showed me this hack squat machine and said do that it's the same thing. The machine is something like a squat but you sit in this cushion and push up. I think this dude is full of **** and I'd really like to raise my squat which has been at like 150 since forever...I'd squat myself but every time I do I try to go as far as I can and when I come back up I can feel it in my back...I know this isn't right and I wish I had someone who could take 5 minutes out of their time to monitor me every time I squat so I can finally raise my ****ing squat. Sorry for the rant but I'll never be ready to go tryout for college football at this point. I just feel that it is physically impossible for me to get stronger...

He also has me do stiff-legged deadlifts, but he makes me do them on a platform and says to go all the way down to my toes. I'm getting a bit scared of upping the weight on this because eventually it'll be too much and I'll smash my toes...I just watched some vids on YouTube and none of them goto their toes when they do stiff-legged deads. They might go past their knees...

Also, I really want some abs really bad and I just can't seem to get them. I am a very slim guy with a flat stomach and I have a high metabolism. No matter what I try I can't get a six-pack. I tried doing crunches, I tried some ab rocket thing or whatever it is called, I tried going to the ab classes at Bally, which only happen twice a week. I mean my stomach is flat and all but I would really like some abs. Can someone please give me a good ab routine? I just tried p90x ab ripper x and I stopped after like the third exercise because I wasn't feeling anything in my abs. The only thing I could feel were my quads and they were hurting like hell. I'm pretty sure that I'm doing something wrong because p90x is supposed to be really hard and all I'm doing is working my quads if anything...

Please, someone please help me...I have been trying to get my lifts up, particularly my squat and I can't do it. I am thinking of going try to get another Personal trainer who will actually monitor me and not just point me to ****...I think the bodybuilding routine can help because I'm skinny and lack muscle mass. I just need some help, I'd also really like some abs...

TheHitStick
03-30-2010, 02:50 PM
How long did you do Starting Strength? If by some chance it wasn't working, then it's your fault. Seriously. You can do the crappiest routine as a newbie and still make amazing results. Or maybe you thought you'd gain 30lbs a lift from every one workout.

Patience is key in lifting weights. If you're doing this for a sport, then get back on Starting Strength. Heck, I'd get back on either way. Look up a lot of video on Rippetoe, Jim Wendler, and others on how to lift properly. That is, learn bench, squat, deadlift and military press.

CHECK YOUR DIET. If you aren't progressing, 9/10 times it's your diet. Get on a bulking diet, you can't gain strength fast while losing weight. Notice I said fast.

Check your ego, do the weights you can do properly and hop off the trainer. You don't need one, they're useless anyways. All the trainers at my gym hate me for some reason, probably because I laugh at their programs. They do the stupidest crap, I don't know why you have one anyways. Once he said "Don't do squats, this machine is the same thing." I would've gotten my money back. He's obviously a wannabe.

OokahOokah
03-30-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm not paying for the trainer they're provided for free at Bally, so I figured why not?

And the reason I stopped Starting Strength? Well, I thought I was progressing on it, and maybe I was, my squat's weight was going up but I started noticing that I wasn't squatting properly and my back started hurting so I went to one of the trainers and I asked him to assist me. When he saw the routine I was doing he said that he could do that in 20 minutes and that if I'd really want to get bigger and stronger that I should do a bodybuilding routine. Here is that routine:

All exercises will be 3 sets (unless specified otherwise) of 8-12 reps and should be to failure

Monday: Legs

Squats (2 sets)

Leg Press (2 sets)

Walking Lunges ( 2 sets)

Still legged deadlift

Leg extensions

Leg curls (2 sets)

Seated leg curls

Calf raises

Tuesday: Chest

Dumbbell bench press

Incline dumbbell bench press

decline barbell bench press

High cable cross over flies

Low cable cross over flies

Dips

Wednesday: Back

Wide grip lat pulldown

Closed grip lat pulldown

closed grip seated rows

wide grip seated rows or wide grip t-bar rows

bent over rows

shoulder shrugs (these need to be done for 14 reps)

Thursday: Legs again same as Monday

Friday: Arms and Shoulders

Shoulders:

Seated dumbbell military press

Barbell upright rows

Side dumbbell lateral raises

Seated dumbbell rear deltoid raise

Dumbbell front lateral raise

Arms triceps ( pick 4 of the 5)

Cable triceps extension using the rope or the V bar

seated pushdowns

decline skull crushers using the easy curl bar

kickbacks

overhead dumbbell extensions

Biceps: ( pick 4 of the 5)

Seated easy curl preacher curls

standing dumbbell bicep curls

1 arm concentration curls

straight bar cable curls

Hammer curls

Reverse curls

That is it. What's better that or SS? I don't know what to believe anymore...This guy claimed that he did this all throughout HS and got really big and strong off of it. Claimed to be a starting DB for Destrahan which is a big 5A powerhouse down here in LA. He said he got good results from it. I am just a bit skeptical because he seems to think these squatting machines can replace squats and that leg presses are good when everyone here says that those are useless for athletic training. I ain't gonna lie my legs have a bit more mass on them since I been doing this routine. This is like my third week on this current routine. What should I do?

DGTL
03-30-2010, 06:16 PM
Hey man if you want to increase your size and strength don't do that program...

Try to reduce the workouts but do more compound workouts

Also try and reduce the reps but increase the weights I am no expert but once I did this I noticed a significant increase in size I started getting HUGE stretch marks on my arms, chest and shoulders because of the size increase.

Look into Ripptoe its a 3 day power workout consisting of squats, bench, military press, deadlifts, pullups, bent over rows and dips.

So if you are doing those on Monday, Weds, Friday. You can focus on abdominal on Tuesday and Thursday.

Also to touch on the machine squat I would try and do a barbell squat.
If you can't do it properly try starting of using DB's and work your way up.

For abs I usually do a variety of crunches and decline ab routines also try weighted ab crunches on the Tricep Pulldown machine since you have a flat stomach using heavy weight would probably be more efficent.

I use to play DT in highschool and my couch would tell me to eat a lot and jsut keep lifting.
Currently I am trying to cut weight so I am not doing Ripptoe and really heavy lifts anymore but again I had a lot of good results from it when I was bulking up.

Also if you are bulking your diet should be higher in calories and protein than when you are cutting.

OokahOokah
03-30-2010, 09:23 PM
So the fact that Ripptoe's doesn't take that long to complete doesn't mean anything? I mean when I told the trainer what I was doing he acted like Ripptoe's SS was for like people who are already strong as hell. I mean does a quick workout mean that it is an inefficient one? I just see all these guys in the gym and they all in there for an hour or two. I felt like I was getting a bit stronger on SS but I really need a spotter. Especially for things like Bench Press, I am afraid to push the limit because I know if I fail I'm gonna crush myself. I also had some problems deadlifting correctly...god I really wish I had a workout partner or something.

A.Machado
03-30-2010, 09:32 PM
The trainer is an idiot. SS is written for beginners who have never been inside a gym. Seems like you need to do more compound movements and eat a lot more. If you're worried about missing a rep or being crushed, use a smith machine as a last resort.

OokahOokah
03-30-2010, 10:37 PM
I was thinking about doing that. Are there any drawbacks to using a smith machine?

Silent Ninja
03-31-2010, 12:00 AM
I was thinking about doing that. Are there any drawbacks to using a smith machine?

Um......... Free weight squatting is ridiculously better

DGTL
03-31-2010, 07:41 AM
So the fact that Ripptoe's doesn't take that long to complete doesn't mean anything? I mean when I told the trainer what I was doing he acted like Ripptoe's SS was for like people who are already strong as hell. I mean does a quick workout mean that it is an inefficient one? I just see all these guys in the gym and they all in there for an hour or two. I felt like I was getting a bit stronger on SS but I really need a spotter. Especially for things like Bench Press, I am afraid to push the limit because I know if I fail I'm gonna crush myself. I also had some problems deadlifting correctly...god I really wish I had a workout partner or something.

Just because other people in the gym are doing something it doesn't mean they are doing it right, do what you need to do! Everyone is built differently.

1 hour seems effiecent but the workout you listed I don't beleive can be done within an hour if you are doing it right. Anyway...

If you are afraid of getting crushed try using Dumbells (I recommend) dumbells will NOT crush you if you cant push it just drop it (watch your fingers) also dumbells will allow for more range in motion.

If you have a problem lifting the dumbells off the ground try starting them on your knees and kicking them up to your delts. Also the weight can be controlled better as you can always change weight if it is to heavy or light. I guess the most benefit from Dumbells for you will be that you don't need spotter because you dont need to be afraid of crushing your neck (ow)

Regarding the Squats if you need someone to "spot" you or check your form and no one is there (this is assuming you asked other people NOT trainer cause he seems like a douche) trying doing dumbell squats between your legs to prac. your form OR even resistant band squats (check vids)

Last resort maybe record yourself and post it on youtube or something ad ask for a form check(prepared to be flammed though). There are also a lot of videos on this site that shows proper form.

When I started squating I tend to bend forward a little but I just reduced the weight a bit got comfortable with it and than slowly increased. (You can do it man)



Regarding Ripptoe you dont need to be strong the program builds your strength and size (assuming thats what you want)

Again if you want to get huge you need to eat more and lift more.

I may be wrong but if you are going to failure doesnt that mean you can put more weight and do 6-8 reps? I think doing that will give you more size than going to failure all the time in your workouts.

hope that helps keep us posted dude

DGTL
03-31-2010, 07:45 AM
Um......... Free weight squatting is ridiculously better

I think he means using a smith for bench so he doesn't get crushed

But yeah, Free weights > universal any day

DGTL
03-31-2010, 07:48 AM
I was thinking about doing that. Are there any drawbacks to using a smith machine?

A lot of people use the smith machine to start off with squats as the weight increases you may have a problem turning and hooking the bar back on (thats just me though when I used it)

Using freeweights is always better you want to increase your overALL strength correct?

Freeweights will target those muscles that Barbell and universal does not.

OokahOokah
03-31-2010, 12:25 PM
The only thing with dumbbells is that when I bench press with them I can manage maybe a 30 pound one in each hand, but if I do it with a barbell I can do AT LEAST 135 pounds. What's going on there? I also notice that my right arm locks up and it feels like I'm about to dislocate my shoulder every time I try to bench press with dumbbells. It is very annoying using them, at least for me.

DGTL
03-31-2010, 09:21 PM
I can manage maybe a 30 pound one in each hand, but if I do it with a barbell I can do AT LEAST 135 pounds. What's going on there?

The reason people do more using barbell as it is isolating more of your chest as dumbells will use a lot of your chest tris and delts therefore leading you to do less weight as you are also trying to focus on balance.


I also notice that my right arm locks up and it feels like I'm about to dislocate my shoulder every time I try to bench press with dumbbells. It is very annoying using them, at least for me.

Do not lock your joints (fully extend) when you push you can damage your joints if if you push quickly and lock.

If you notice people can bench 300pounds on a universal They can probably only do 135-180 on the barbell and probably even less on the dumbells.

If your arm or joint really does hurt when using dumbells than maybe using a universal machine is the way to go for you.

Everyone is built differently but keep in mind the machines are not built for every body type as well.

OokahOokah
03-31-2010, 09:42 PM
So you're saying that if I use dumbbells and go up in dumbbells that I will be even stronger when using a barbell, but not the other way around?

I had tried doing BP with dumbbells yesterday and I didn't fully extend. While I didn't lock my arm this time I noticed a pain in just my right arm and it nagged me on every other lift I did afterwards.

daveshit
04-01-2010, 08:35 AM
So you're saying that if I use dumbbells and go up in dumbbells that I will be even stronger when using a barbell, but not the other way around?

I had tried doing BP with dumbbells yesterday and I didn't fully extend. While I didn't lock my arm this time I noticed a pain in just my right arm and it nagged me on every other lift I did afterwards.

Your inability to progress is your fault. Learn to squat, deadlift, bench press and you will progress on starting strength. Begin conservative, with empty bar, on every exercise, and as you move your way up you will master the technique. nothing easier.

If you want to get stronger, you gotta eat more, and you won't see abs any soon if you want to gain strength fast. Goota move that bodyweight also up.

DGTL
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
If you want to get stronger, you gotta eat more, and you won't see abs any soon if you want to gain strength fast. Goota move that bodyweight also up.

exactly

GodsAngina
04-01-2010, 11:50 AM
I'm not paying for the trainer they're provided for free at Bally, so I figured why not?

And the reason I stopped Starting Strength? Well, I thought I was progressing on it, and maybe I was, my squat's weight was going up but I started noticing that I wasn't squatting properly and my back started hurting so I went to one of the trainers and I asked him to assist me. When he saw the routine I was doing he said that he could do that in 20 minutes and that if I'd really want to get bigger and stronger that I should do a bodybuilding routine. Here is that routine:

All exercises will be 3 sets (unless specified otherwise) of 8-12 reps and should be to failure

Monday: Legs

Squats (2 sets)

Leg Press (2 sets)

Walking Lunges ( 2 sets)

Still legged deadlift

Leg extensions

Leg curls (2 sets)

Seated leg curls

Calf raises

Tuesday: Chest

Dumbbell bench press

Incline dumbbell bench press

decline barbell bench press

High cable cross over flies

Low cable cross over flies

Dips

Wednesday: Back

Wide grip lat pulldown

Closed grip lat pulldown

closed grip seated rows

wide grip seated rows or wide grip t-bar rows

bent over rows

shoulder shrugs (these need to be done for 14 reps)

Thursday: Legs again same as Monday

Friday: Arms and Shoulders

Shoulders:

Seated dumbbell military press

Barbell upright rows

Side dumbbell lateral raises

Seated dumbbell rear deltoid raise

Dumbbell front lateral raise

Arms triceps ( pick 4 of the 5)

Cable triceps extension using the rope or the V bar

seated pushdowns

decline skull crushers using the easy curl bar

kickbacks

overhead dumbbell extensions

Biceps: ( pick 4 of the 5)

Seated easy curl preacher curls

standing dumbbell bicep curls

1 arm concentration curls

straight bar cable curls

Hammer curls

Reverse curls

That is it. What's better that or SS? I don't know what to believe anymore...This guy claimed that he did this all throughout HS and got really big and strong off of it. Claimed to be a starting DB for Destrahan which is a big 5A powerhouse down here in LA. He said he got good results from it. I am just a bit skeptical because he seems to think these squatting machines can replace squats and that leg presses are good when everyone here says that those are useless for athletic training. I ain't gonna lie my legs have a bit more mass on them since I been doing this routine. This is like my third week on this current routine. What should I do?

that is retarded, do starting strength

OokahOokah
04-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Okay so I started doing SS again and I think I am getting the form down in some lifts. I studied a lot of rip's videos on Youtube, and I think I may have gotten the squat down. He says that if you lift your chest out of the bottom position of the squat you're releasing tension off the hamstrings and that's not right. I then recalled that when I was squatting I'd always focus on trying to keep a straight back that I'd try to lean back or something. All I know is that I'd feel it in my back way more than my hips. Rip then said to forget about your back and only focus on getting your butt in the air. I then started doing this and while sometimes I may feel a little pain in my lower back I feel it way more in my upper lower body. I think I may be doing them correctly but I sometimes feel a little pain in my back. Can anyone tell me if I finally got the squat down? Also when I finally am done pushing up with my legs on the squat and am back up, should I shoot my hips forward as if I'm humping the air in front of me? (no homo)

I also studied the bench press and Rip made some fascinating points to me in his videos. He said your eyes should be on the other side of the bar not under them, and that your lower back should be arched as best it can be without causing your butt to lift in the air. When I used to BP I would just lay flat down, eyes on the other side of the bar or under it, and I'd hardly ever feel it in my chest. I tried it Rip's way and I must say I really felt it in my chest and pecs more than before.

I also studied the Deadlift and I think I got that down too. Rip said to drag the bar up the legs on the way up, and back down the legs on the way back down. I also learned that my shins should be touching the bar in the bottom position. These are some things I didn't do before. The only thing is that I got carried away and did 3 sets of 5 on the deadlift because I was so excited that I forgot it was only 1 set. Is it okay to do 3 sets of Deadlift? And I am just curious as to why Rip only wants you to do 1 set? What is the reasoning behind that? I really didn't start feeling my legs till after the second set.

I still have questions about the press and power clean. I'm not sure how to explain it but when I am pressing I try to bend at the hips but I still feel my lower back bending sorta. I don't know how to fix this? I have been trying to keep the back straight and just bend the hips but I don't think it's working. Someone please help me. Also, should your shoulders hurt after doing the press? I'm just asking because mine were.

For the power cleans do you just do a dealift and when it gets to the top just explode up? I have been trying to study it but unfortunately Rip has maybe 2 minute long videos on YouTube regarding the power clean. I don't believe I was doing it right at all last night. Sometimes I felt myself kinda go back a little after the jump and according to Rip I shouldn't. Should you just be standing straight up when you come out of your jump or is it okay to be back a little. Should you fling the bar up and get under it using your legs? Does the bar have to be hanging in your fingers and not in the wrist after your jump? I am sorry for all these questions but the only thing I am really feeling from the power cleans last night are my abs? Is this normal?

Also, does it matter about the chin ups? Last night my first set I managed 5 and then after that I managed 2 a set until I got to 13 reps and quit because the gym was about to close for the night. Does this matter or should I just do 2 sets for as many reps as I can in those 2 sets? I never really did chin ups before.

Please y'all answer all these questions and concerns I have. I think I got my squat, bench, and deadlift form down, but I still have some problems with pressing and power cleans especially. I am really trying to learn here. Can anyone show me some good power clean videos. Half the ones I see on YouTube are of people exploding into a reverse bicep curl which is what I think I am doing. That isn't going to help me much. So please, anything fellas?