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Timmm567
02-22-2010, 06:54 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.

hooked4life
02-22-2010, 06:59 PM
and if you can digest it? why would you not want to consume the only naturally occurring food decided to nourish animals?

MJFan1
02-22-2010, 07:00 PM
I don't drink milk, I never really liked it.

BurritoJ
02-22-2010, 07:01 PM
I don't think most people that have the problems you're talking about would continue drinking milk anyway. Also, I've never heard anyone suggest that a person with those problems should continue drinking milk.

Timmm567
02-22-2010, 07:03 PM
and if you can digest it? why would you not want to consume the only naturally occurring food decided to nourish animals?

...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

defury
02-22-2010, 07:06 PM
Billions of people drink it, seems fine to me. I use it for protein shakes. I have a hard time believing you consume 0 dairy products.

goffer23
02-22-2010, 07:07 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.

People who are lactose intolerant don't have enough lactase to hydrolyze the lactose. If everyone didn't have enough lactase, we would all get gas, bloating, etc. when drinking milk.

ChecksandGiggles
02-22-2010, 07:12 PM
Because it is delicious and nutritious.

/thread

hooked4life
02-22-2010, 07:12 PM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

yea, b/c it takes more energy to make milk than the milk will furnish - thus adult cows being linked to a milk machine would be retarded.

On Fire
02-22-2010, 07:13 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.

It would seem absurd to me to cater my diet to what enzymes someone else lacks. I am fully capable of drinking half a gallon of milk in a day without any side effects or symptoms you listed above, so why should I care?

Ruz4life
02-22-2010, 07:15 PM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

Cows eat grass. Guess I'm going to start eating that because now I need to model my life and diet after a cow like you seem to state.



Retard.

Skullaway
02-22-2010, 07:16 PM
It is one of those things people do that makes no sense.

Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty. But they will go to the store and buy big jugs of moo juice , take it home and eat a bag of cookies with a glass of milk. It is nasty both ways if you think about it.

So if you wont suck a cows tits then why do people drink milk out of a glass.

It has to do with how we are raised as kids. We are fed milk and cheese without the wisdom to see how frakin sick it is.

But even knowing all this as an adult, I still eat cheese. What the frak is wrong with me. I block out the truth when eating cheese cause I have to fill my childhood cravings, I guess.

wnc817
02-22-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.

Because it tastes good? Also, it goes really well with cereal. And people use it when they are baking. What other reasons do you need?

grizzol
02-22-2010, 07:16 PM
ill start drinking milk because of this thread

hooked4life
02-22-2010, 07:18 PM
It is one of those things people do that makes no sense.

Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty. But they will go to the store and buy big jugs of moo juice , take it home and eat a bag of cookies with a glass of milk. It is nasty both ways if you think about it.

So if you wont suck a cows tits then why do people drink milk out of a glass.

It has to do with how we are raised as kids. We are fed milk and cheese without the wisdom to see how frakin sick it is.

But even knowing all this as an adult, I still eat cheese. What the frak is wrong with me. I block out the truth when eating cheese cause I have to fill my childhood cravings, I guess.

again, that makes no sense. you ever been to a meat packing plant? seen the **** mushrooms grow out of? it wasn't a random idea, we drink milk as babies. we also hijack the nutrients designed to facilitate reproduction (grain, nuts etc) all the time. it's perfectly logical.

goffer23
02-22-2010, 07:22 PM
Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty. But they will go to the store and buy big jugs of moo juice , take it home and eat a bag of cookies with a glass of milk. It is nasty both ways if you think about it.

You do realize they pasteurize the milk right? So technically not the same thing.

x-ray vision
02-22-2010, 07:23 PM
Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty.
Or it's because you could collect it in a bucket or have a machine suck teets for you? Do you dig up potatoes and eat them raw? Do you bite the legs of live chickens? These are silly reasons not to eat potatoes, not enjoy chicken parmesan, or not have a tall glass of milk with an excellent amino acid profile and source of calcium.


It has to do with how we are raised as kids. We are fed milk and cheese without the wisdom to see how frakin sick it is.
Hopefully you'll keep gaining wisdom and see that there's nothing sick about it.

Skullaway
02-22-2010, 07:24 PM
You do realize they pasteurize the milk right? So technically not the same thing.

If you say so. lol

befamous7
02-22-2010, 07:25 PM
ill start drinking milk because of this thread

I'll do GOMAD because of this thread. (see link)

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats-gallon-gain-weight/

hooked4life
02-22-2010, 07:27 PM
I'll do GOMAD because of this thread. (see link)

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats-gallon-gain-weight/

going to thank my Norwegian heritage and have a couple cups with some cookies. nom nom nom.

mysterystench
02-22-2010, 07:27 PM
I dont think it should have anything to do with taste or whether or not you can digest it comfortably. It's got great nutritional value. I drink it regularly, and yeah...it gives me wicked gas but what doesnt?

Madevilz
02-22-2010, 07:28 PM
Did milk kill your father and rape your mother?

defury
02-22-2010, 07:29 PM
Cows don't eat other cows but we do.

ChecksandGiggles
02-22-2010, 07:32 PM
I dont think it should have anything to do with taste or whether or not you can digest it comfortably. It's got great nutritional value. I drink it regularly, and yeah...it gives me wicked gas but what doesnt?

strong name to post

sarahkay_3
02-22-2010, 07:34 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.
Certainly if a food product makes you ill it has no place in your diet. If you are allergic to peanuts you shouldn't be eating peanut butter or if you're allergic to shellfish you shouldn't be dining on shrimp and crab legs.
However. Why should I stop drinking milk?
I can digest milk and have the necessary enzymes to digest that and other dairy foods. Its an excellent source of complete animal protein and carbohydrates and extremely portable. And milk is delicious, so are cheese, butter, cream, ice cream, cottage cheese, custard, creme anglese, whipped creme...

"Originally Posted by Skullaway
Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty."

ugh...and it doesn't seem disgusting at all that milk comes from the udder of a cow.
I regularly buy and drink(illegal) unpasturized milk. I know where my food comes from. and I don't mind that chicken breasts come from chickens, or veal comes from sweet baby cows with big brown eyes, or mushrooms grow in rotting logs...
If need be I'll go out and grow/kill/milk/ gather my own food, and anyone who eats should be willing and able to do so as well.

Skullaway
02-22-2010, 07:35 PM
Or it's because you could collect it in a bucket or have a machine suck teets for you? Do you dig up potatoes and eat them raw? Do you bite the legs of live chickens? These are silly reasons not to eat potatoes, not enjoy chicken parmesan, or not have a tall glass of milk with an excellent amino acid profile and source of calcium.


Hopefully you'll keep gaining wisdom and see that there's nothing sick about it.

Why do you care if I change my thinking, more milk for you.

jimo5593
02-22-2010, 07:36 PM
Did milk kill your father and rape your mother?

hahahaahah yea this dude has some bad past experience with milk. And this guy's main point is that not everyone can digest milk which i guess that means everyone in the world should stop? Im gonna go drink some chocolate milk because i like the taste and i can digest it.

dawsondvm
02-22-2010, 07:38 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.


Why don't you just write to your local congressman on the matter and quit bothering everyone on this message board with this drivel.

determined4000
02-22-2010, 07:38 PM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

they dont eat meat either
chickens dont eat eggs
does that mean we shouldn't?

RealMenDeadLift
02-22-2010, 07:53 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1367/1466091231_13f7bed71a.jpg?v=0

MaximusJuris
02-22-2010, 08:01 PM
milk is awesome. i feel sorry to hear that it gives you gas, diarrhea, and cramps. you must not have had many friends in elementary school, when everyone got milk for lunch.

ChecksandGiggles
02-22-2010, 08:04 PM
Bro, you're an ignoramus. Didn't you know that Ronnie, Jay, Dexter and all those other huge ass mother****ers got so big by drinking a ****ING GALLON of HUMAN BREAST MILK A DAY??!!!!!

Your argument has just been destroyed.

HI_KKM
02-22-2010, 08:09 PM
you guys get trolled so easily

and ronnie and jay got huge because of roids

cm383706
02-22-2010, 08:11 PM
I drink ~ 3 gallons of milk a week ... u mad?

boooosted
02-22-2010, 08:13 PM
It is one of those things people do that makes no sense.

So if you wont suck a cows tits then why do people drink milk out of a glass.


Would you go to a ranch and take a bite out of a cow? I doubt it. Do you eat meat? I'm guessing yes. Its not the same at all.

C0bra
02-22-2010, 08:14 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.
because I like the taste and have no problems digesting it

Skullaway
02-22-2010, 08:33 PM
Would you go to a ranch and take a bite out of a cow? I doubt it. Do you eat meat? I'm guessing yes. Its not the same at all.

Hey man, I am not going to explain this any further. I don't want to ruin milk for anyone. I sometimes wish I never learned what I know about milk. I use to love milk. I read some book years ago and it frakin ruined it for me. So forget I even posted in this thread.

Paul-T
02-22-2010, 08:50 PM
I drink milk cuz I like the taste, you think its bitter but I think its great

wnc817
02-22-2010, 09:20 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rattlesnake93/troll-web1asd.jpg

befamous7
02-22-2010, 09:35 PM
I drink milk cuz I like the taste, you think its bitter but I think its great

I also drink milk and smoke cigars, don't believe me? Smell my car.

Rufflez
02-22-2010, 09:41 PM
milk is awesome ;)

Daio
02-23-2010, 04:58 AM
Milk Rocks!!
Its like sex in a glass ;-)

dizzay20
02-23-2010, 05:56 AM
vitamins/mineral and it tastes good.


troll pls go.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 06:23 AM
Hey man, I am not going to explain this any further. I don't want to ruin milk for anyone. I sometimes wish I never learned what I know about milk. I use to love milk. I read some book years ago and it frakin ruined it for me. So forget I even posted in this thread.

Why don't you explain your position from a biochemical standpoint, rather then just being a cop out troll and saying "well I read something in a book once and it's bad".

cmurray
02-23-2010, 06:25 AM
milk = good for everybody except lactose intolerant people. But then even those people have substitutes.

Skullaway
02-23-2010, 07:10 AM
Why don't you explain your position from a biochemical standpoint, rather then just being a cop out troll and saying "well I read something in a book once and it's bad".

You continue to misunderstand my simple posts. Why are you so stupid?

I never said milk was bad! Your comprehension skills suck! My posts were my opinions. What don't you get. Look at what you wrote and what I said. Not even the same freakin thing. Call me a toll? You have got to have crap for brains. You post the stupidest things all the time. You don't understand what you read so you make retarded judgments. You are an idiot.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 07:21 AM
You continue to misunderstand my simple posts. Why are you so stupid?

What is there to understand? You aren't really saying anything at all, you are simply trolling. You wont "ruin" milk for anyone.

Skullaway
02-23-2010, 07:22 AM
What is there to understand? You aren't really saying anything at all, you are simply trolling. You wont "ruin" milk for anyone.

Read my edit stupid.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 07:31 AM
Read my edit stupid.

I posted that before your edit....."stupid"


You seriously need to chill out, especially with insults as they make you look like a fool. I mixed you up with the OP. You simply find milk gross and thats fine as you certainly aren't the only one.

Skullaway
02-23-2010, 07:33 AM
I posted that before your edit.....stupid

I know retard! That is why I pointed you back to read what else I said about how stupid you are.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 07:34 AM
I know retard! That is why I pointed you back to read what else I said about how stupid you are.

Again with the insults, you must be compensating for something.

Skullaway
02-23-2010, 07:38 AM
Again with the insults, you must be compensating for something.

Calling someone a troll is an insult. You started it!

You fail to see you are the problem, not me.

loknar
02-23-2010, 07:43 AM
The creator of this thread is correct when he says most people are not able to digest milk because of the lactose (I'm one of those people). It's just that most people of a European extraction are able to digest it with no problems but elseware in the world especially in Asia and Africa, the vast majority of people are not able to digest milk sugar.

That being said, I love milk but I rarely drink it though because i have to buy pills in order for me to not get sick drinking the stuff. Thankfully most of the protein sold has Lactase in it or is lactose free anyway.

In the end, you cant go wrong with Whey, which comes from milk...

On Fire
02-23-2010, 07:48 AM
You continue to misunderstand my simple posts. Why are you so stupid?

I never said milk was bad! Your comprehension skills suck! My posts were my opinions. What don't you get. Look at what you wrote and what I said. Not even the same freakin thing. Call me a toll? You have got to have crap for brains. You post the stupidest things all the time. You don't understand what you read so you make retarded judgments. You are an idiot.

If anyone had any respect for you, its probably gone now.

GlamourMuscles
02-23-2010, 08:51 AM
I've essentially replaced milk in my diet with Soy milk, but I've been reading about the negative effects of soy lately and it's got me all sorts of freaked out.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 08:55 AM
Calling someone a troll is an insult. You started it!

You fail to see you are the problem, not me.

Wow you seriously have thin skin if you take that much offense to being called a troll. I already told you I mixed you up with the OP. "You started it!" what are you 11?

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:01 AM
Lots of chirping going on, why don't we look at the facts?

Fact: Milk of a cow has been designed through evolution to nourish calves for a finite period of time.

Fact: No other species have the ability to continue drinking milk into adult hood. Nor do they.

Fact: 60% of adults do not retain sufficient levels of LACTASE after infancy. That means if you try to drink milk it travels to your lower bowel where it is fermented by bacteria causing cramps, gas, diahorea. (Sound Healthy?)

Fact: Milk has almost a 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein.

By the way no need to get so defensive but compared to the other available foods I see no reason why people still drink milk PERIOD, especially in regards to bodybuilding. The insults and lack of facts you have provided me have yet to convince me otherwise.

-Tim

Madevilz
02-23-2010, 09:06 AM
Lots of chirping going on, why don't we look at the facts?

Fact: Milk of a cow has been designed through evolution to nourish calves for a finite period of time.

Fact: No other species have the ability to continue drinking milk into adult hood. Nor do they.

Fact: 60% of adults do not retain sufficient levels of LACTASE after infancy. That means if you try to drink milk it travels to your lower bowel where it is fermented by bacteria causing cramps, gas, diahorea. (Sound Healthy?)

Fact: Milk has almost a 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein.

By the way no need to get so defensive but compared to the other available foods I see no reason why people still drink milk PERIOD, especially in regards to bodybuilding. The insults and lack of facts you have provided me have yet to convince me otherwise.

-Tim


Alan Aragon on milk:

http://thefitnessinsider.menshealth.com/2007/05/if_you_were_at_.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22349307/


kthxbye

mbieker1
02-23-2010, 09:18 AM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.
Yes: the reason being that producing milk is very taxing on the mother, and it's logically impossible for that setup to work for the duration of the offspring's life.

jjjdog
02-23-2010, 09:22 AM
I personally drink milk within reason, but here is an interesting article:

(I can't post links yet but simply go to Google and type the following. It should be the first link)

Harvard Calcium and Milk: What's Best for Your Bones and Health?

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:25 AM
Someone said "why would you not want to consume the only naturally occurring food decided to nourish animals?"

I pointed out that it was naturally designed to nourish calves and nothing else. (Meaning it is actually not designed to be consumed by humans)

But thanks for insulting me because you lack reading comprehension skills.



Cows don't eat other cows but we do.

What's you point? All I said was milk was designed to nourish calves.



Why don't you just write to your local congressman on the matter and quit bothering everyone on this message board with this drivel.

Not seeking legislative action. Thanks though.


they dont eat meat either
chickens dont eat eggs
does that mean we shouldn't?


Cows eat grass. Guess I'm going to start eating that because now I need to model my life and diet after a cow like you seem to state.



Retard.


Someone said "why would you not want to consume the only naturally occurring food decided to nourish animals?"

I pointed out that it was naturally designed to nourish calves and nothing else. (Meaning it is actually not designed to be consumed by humans).

How does this translate to us mimicking the diets of chickens and cows? Where do I imply or state that we should mimic the diets of cows or chickens? Strong reading comprehension up in this thread.

Euro850R
02-23-2010, 09:33 AM
I will continue to drink a gallon a day because it is an amazing source of nutrition. It is loaded with nonhormonal bioactive substances and growth factors. It tastes great and is inexpensive.

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 10:12 AM
Fact: Milk of a cow has been designed through evolution to nourish calves for a finite period of time.
This is wrong. Nothing is designed with a specific purpose. You don't understand evolution.



Fact: No other species have the ability to continue drinking milk into adult hood. Nor do they.
Since you used the word "other", who cares? You're admitting that those of us that can drink it in adulthood have the ability. Why not drink it if we have no problems with it? You think we shouldn't because it's not "designed" for us? Is this more important than what's in it?


This also means no cheese, no cottage cheese, no yogurt, no ice cream, most baked goods, butter, chocolate bars, and the list goes on. Giving all this up because of a mistaken notion that some foods were meant for us is plain dumb. What foods were "designed" for us, btw? Chicken breast? Fish? Corn?



Fact: 60% of adults do not retain sufficient levels of LACTASE after infancy. That means if you try to drink milk it travels to your lower bowel where it is fermented by bacteria causing cramps, gas, diahorea. (Sound Healthy?)
Several people have posted about this already. See posts 25, 27, and 30.



Fact: Milk has almost a 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein.
Don't know why you think this is relevant (do you think we should eat more protein than carbs?) but it's wrong, depending on how flexible you are with the word "almost." The ratio is 3:2.



By the way no need to get so defensive but compared to the other available foods I see no reason why people still drink milk PERIOD
Did you check out the links to what Alan Aragon had to say about milk? Here's one paragraph:

Absolutely. In fact, milk is one of the best muscle foods on the planet. You see, the protein in milk is about 80 percent whey and 20 percent casein. Both are high-quality proteins, but whey is known as a "fast protein" because it's quickly broken down into amino acids and absorbed into the bloodstream. That makes it a very good protein to consume after your workout. Casein, on the other hand, is digested more slowly. So it's ideal for providing your body with a steady supply of smaller amounts of protein for a longer period of time ? like between meals or while you sleep. Since milk provides both, one big glass gives your body an ideal combination of muscle-building proteins.



especially in regards to bodybuilding.
See above.



The insults and lack of facts you have provided me have yet to convince me otherwise.
You've been given plenty of facts. Open your eyes.

sFunk
02-23-2010, 10:15 AM
I hope you're not drinking pasteurized milk if you're drinking it for nutrition other than the protein/fat content.

Mr-Paradox
02-23-2010, 10:15 AM
Milk is for growing mammals. I am a growing mammal. Therefore, I drink milk

/thread

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 10:20 AM
I hope you're not drinking pasteurized milk if you're drinking it for nutrition other than the protein/fat content.
If you believe the pasteurization process affects the nutritional content of milk to any significant degree, you've most likely been hoodwinked by the raw milk crazies.

stschott
02-23-2010, 10:23 AM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.

Humans are the only mammals that do not develop lactose intolerance in adulthood. Why deprive yourself of something that is good for you? I have no gastrointestinal issues from drinking milk.

And if I can't efficiently digest lactose? Great. I don't need that sugar anyway-- I want the fat, the vitamins, and the protein.

Holyspokes
02-23-2010, 10:24 AM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

How would they get to the udders even if they wanted to?


You continue to misunderstand my simple posts. Why are you so stupid?

I never said milk was bad! Your comprehension skills suck! My posts were my opinions. What don't you get. Look at what you wrote and what I said. Not even the same freakin thing. Call me a toll? You have got to have crap for brains. You post the stupidest things all the time. You don't understand what you read so you make retarded judgments. You are an idiot.


It is one of those things people do that makes no sense.

Would anyone jump under a cow and start sucking milk out of it, no. Cause that would be nasty. But they will go to the store and buy big jugs of moo juice , take it home and eat a bag of cookies with a glass of milk. It is nasty both ways if you think about it.

So if you wont suck a cows tits then why do people drink milk out of a glass.

It has to do with how we are raised as kids. We are fed milk and cheese without the wisdom to see how frakin sick it is.

But even knowing all this as an adult, I still eat cheese. What the frak is wrong with me. I block out the truth when eating cheese cause I have to fill my childhood cravings, I guess.

Horrible analogy and strong hypocrite.

loknar
02-23-2010, 01:05 PM
Lets all keep in mind that milk effects people differently. In my case, I can eat cheese, milk kefir, whey protein, with no problem. However, when I have a glass of regular milk or ice cream I'll be ****ting and if that doesnt happen i get a rash on my back. BUt thats my problem, if I could I would drink alot of milk for the whey and casein benefit.

My idea is that the pasteurizing process destroys any bacterial benefit which naturally occurs in milk. Essentially, the milk you get is from hormone pumped cows (some say these hormones pass into the milk supply and then into humans, the Europeans have an embargo on our milk because of this). This is why I think cheese is actually good for you, as well as kefir... for the pro-biotic effect...

Anyway, in other countries people drink milk which is unpasteurized and they arent falling over dead. We just began this process in the past few decades and it's probably. People drank milk for thousands of years and they didnt fall over dead if it wasn't boiled...


SKULLA

there's something you need to realize about milk. IN colder climates where the growing season was short, people needed extra sources of nutrition. Northern Asian and European peoples cultivated milk for this reason. They found when it was aged it turned into edible cheese and it got them through the winter. Since then milk has been a staple in most western nations and remains to this day. I agree, the milk we get today is garbage compared to what was available 100 years ago, but nevertheless, milk is a logical food source.

Rufflez
02-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I hope you're not drinking pasteurized milk if you're drinking it for nutrition other than the protein/fat content.

whats bad about pasteurized milk?

On Fire
02-23-2010, 01:16 PM
You've been given plenty of facts. Open your eyes.

You've listed way too many credible arguments in this post, he's going to ignore it completely.

iRun
02-23-2010, 01:26 PM
my IQ dropped to a dangerous low as soon as my eyes took in the words on this screen...


to ask such a question based on a few with the inability to do so....

hell even then it never made much sense.


why do people still eat meat?

why do people still drink water?

why do people still wear clothes?

why do people still go on dates?

why do people still get married?

why do people still go to school?

f*** it

my mind has never gotten ****ed so badly before today.


I thought it was over with the first freaking post, but then people consider drinking milk to be a sick thing....notice how in either post there is no absolute fact.

just mindless random brainsh** flowing out the mouth.

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 01:37 PM
My idea is that the pasteurizing process destroys any bacterial benefit which naturally occurs in milk.
Do you have a reputable cite for this idea? GodHatesMilk.com doesn't count as a reputable cite, btw.



Essentially, the milk you get is from hormone pumped cows (some say these hormones pass into the milk supply and then into humans
Some say the moon is made of green cheese. Did you read click on the links to the articles by Alan Aragon?


Cows are given hormones. Doesn't that make their milk unhealthy?

Not unless you're injecting the milk. Here's the full story: In 1993 the FDA approved the use of recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) in cattle. This practice resulted in greater milk production at less cost to the dairy farmer, a savings that has been passed on to you at your local supermarket. But it has also sparked much controversy, because rBGH boosts milk's concentration of insulin-like growth factor (IGF), a hormone that's been linked to cancer.

Unlike steroid hormones, which can be taken orally, rBGH and IGF must be injected to have any effect. That's because the process of digestion destroys these "protein" hormones. So drinking milk from hormone-treated cows doesn't transfer the active form of these chemicals to your body. However, there is one ethical downside to consider: It's not good for the cows. Canadian researchers discovered that cows given hormones are more likely to contract an udder infection called mastitis.



This is why I think cheese is actually good for you
Faulty reasoning.



Anyway, in other countries people drink milk which is unpasteurized and they arent falling over dead.
Actually, unpasteurized milk does kill people.

Here are some things that can be in your unpasteurized milk:

cryptosporidium -- causes severe diarrhea; can KILL children and people with comprised immune systems salmonella -- again with the severe diarrhea and DEATH e. coli -- bloody diarrhea and DEATH campylobacter jejuni -- watery, bloody diarrhea and DEATH

It gets many more very ill.
http://www.enotalone.com/article/9028.html



We just began this process in the past few decades
A little more than that.



People drank milk for thousands of years and they didnt fall over dead if it wasn't boiled
You got the statistics? If people aren't "falling over dead", we shouldn't bother with the simple procedure of pasteurization which kills may dangerous organisms, saves lives, and protects people from illness? Pasteurized milk isn't boiled, btw. It's a simple procedure that's worth the low cost and doesn't affect the nutritional value of milk to any significant degree.

jcosley
02-23-2010, 01:43 PM
Cows eat grass. Guess I'm going to start eating that because now I need to model my life and diet after a cow like you seem to state.

Retard.

hahahahahaha OWNED!

mneugeba
02-23-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.


Well thank you for your opinion.

I can understand milk avoidance by those who have milk allergies or who are lactose intolerant. However, for those who can handle it ... it's cheap, it's healthy and it's tasty. In my opinion, that is why it will always have a place in the modern adults diet.

Thanks :)

thomaslux
02-23-2010, 02:13 PM
you know, i'd like to see evidence of anything naturally designed to nourish humans - didn't we evolve in a fashion that let to us adapting to what nutrient sources we found available to use and chose to consume?

if people with intolerances don't want to eat milk, fine - it's understandable that cultures have a high level of lactose intolerance when they haven't had the same relationship with milk to other cultures, the body evolves to work as best it can in the nutritional environment it's placed in, and for a lot of us (us boring europeans/americans/australians) that's meant a whole lot of milk.

i myself grew up in one of the larger dairy-producing areas of australia and always enjoyed a variety of milks - pasteurised full-cream, fresh from the cow (warm, weird, yet tasty) lots of cheeses and a whole lot of cream. i've kept dairy in my diet to a large extent and found it delicious, nutritionally valuable and practically useful in reaching my fitness goals.

i don't see why some those who have trouble digesting milk - and there's quite a few of them, granted - seek to bash it generally against all practical nutritional evidence. never once have i heard a milk-fan suggest that it should be consumed by anyone with an allergy or digestive upset, yet it's opponents are almost militant.

mneugeba
02-23-2010, 02:19 PM
i don't see why some those who have trouble digesting milk - and there's quite a few of them, granted - seek to bash it generally against all practical nutritional evidence. never once have i heard a milk-fan suggest that it should be consumed by anyone with an allergy or digestive upset, yet it's opponents are almost militant.

They are fanatics.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

gixxer0.6g
02-23-2010, 02:20 PM
Because it makes my protein shakes taste more like shakes.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 02:24 PM
Cows don't eat other cows but we do.

Actually they do. Just not naturally. ^^ This is the origin of mad cow disease. Feeding cows other infected cows. Sick as it is.

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 02:39 PM
Actually they do. Just not naturally. ^^ This is the origin f mad cow disease. Feeding cows other infected cows. Sick as it is.
Where did you hear this? The origin of Mad Cow Disease is still unknown and I've never heard of your explanation ever given as a theory. I've also never heard of cows being fed or eating beef.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 02:53 PM
Where did you hear this? The origin of Mad Cow Disease is still unknown and I've never heard of your explanation ever given as a theory. I've also never heard of cows being fed or eating beef.

Bovine spongioform encephalopathy
"Epidemiological studies conducted in the UK suggest that the source of BSE was cattle feed prepared from bovine tissues, such as brain and spinal cord, that was contaminated by the BSE agent."
"Speculation as to the cause of the appearance of the agent causing the disease has ranged from spontaneous occurrence in cattle, the carcasses of which then entered the cattle food chain, to entry into the cattle food chain from the carcasses of sheep with a similar disease, scrapie."

From the WHO:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs113/en/

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 03:04 PM
Cool, thanks for the link.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 03:14 PM
Cool, thanks for the link.

No problem. I'm not bashing milk drinking in any way I love drinking milk. It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs. Just like big business whatever they can do to save a dollar.

I'm not saying it's definitive where it came from but if only a few cows that developed the disease died it would be no problem. The fact that we fed those cows to other cows that turned BSE into a pandemic and could eventually infect us as you see with CJD and other diseases of similar degeneration.

spitfire909x
02-23-2010, 04:04 PM
I'm amazed by how close-minded some of you are. You'll be eating your words 10 years from now when the link between dairy and cancer (and things like acne) has been backed up by more publicly available data.

/thread

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 04:08 PM
No problem. I'm not bashing milk drinking in any way I love drinking milk. It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs. Just like big business whatever they can do to save a dollar.

I'm not saying it's definitive where it came from but if only a few cows that developed the disease died it would be no problem. The fact that we fed those cows to other cows that turned BSE into a pandemic and could eventually infect us as you see with CJD and other diseases of similar degeneration.

Pandemic? The cases of Mad Cow passing on to humans in the US is in the single digits yearly

Robb817
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
Your opinion on dairy products is clearly biased. If you dont like milk, dont drink it. Dont pretend that everyone else has to agree or they're stupid. That makes you stupid.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm amazed by how close-minded some of you are. You'll be eating your words 10 years from now when the link between dairy and cancer (and things like acne) has been backed up by more publicly available data.

/thread l....m....a....o

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm not bashing milk drinking in any way I love drinking milk. It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs.
Who's we? You're saying we do this here in the U.S. and that it's still done in the U.K.?

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Pandemic? The cases of Mad Cow passing on to humans in the US is in the single digits yearly

I wasn't talking about us. I was talking about the cows. It was rampant until they started to tighten up on how the cows were fed. Yes we don't have many cases but cases do show up in other diseases.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 04:26 PM
Who's we? You're saying we do this here in the U.S. and that it's still done in the U.K.?

I was talking about in general. And there have become stricter rules on the feed countries give to cows. There are still a few cases but it has been lessened to an extent thanks to these restrictions.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 04:27 PM
This is wrong. Nothing is designed with a specific purpose. You don't understand evolution.

Everything is designed with a specific purpose. You sir don't understand evolution.




Since you used the word "other", who cares? You're admitting that those of us that can drink it in adulthood have the ability. Why not drink it if we have no problems with it? You think we shouldn't because it's not "designed" for us? Is this more important than what's in it?

What we do know: Adult humans were not meant to drink milk. (evolutionary perspective)

What we don't know: We have many studies on the ingredients in milk but their health implications are still largely disputed.

So absolutely I would reconsider drinking it because there is evidence it's not designed to be consumed by adult humans. And there is not enough evidence to determine the health effects.



This also means no cheese, no cottage cheese, no yogurt, no ice cream, most baked goods, butter, chocolate bars, and the list goes on. Giving all this up because of a mistaken notion that some foods were meant for us is plain dumb. What foods were "designed" for us, btw? Chicken breast? Fish? Corn?

Imagine no dairy, no refined carbohydrates, no stored butters, sugars, ect. I argue that this would be a healthy change for almost anyone.

Foods Designed for us...

Raw veggies
Raw fruits
Meat (cooked or raw)
Eggs
Bugs
Nuts/Seeds

...and whatever else was lying around when our ancestors roamed the earth. I believe this is the healthiest diet conceivable based on the information we have currently. Our bodies evolved to take in these forms of nutrition.




Several people have posted about this already. See posts 25, 27, and 30.


Maybe if most of the world has trouble digesting something than we can infer that it doesn't belong in our diet?



Don't know why you think this is relevant (do you think we should eat more protein than carbs?) but it's wrong, depending on how flexible you are with the word "almost." The ratio is 3:2.

The ratio is determined by the cow it came from right? Since we do not all get milk from the same cow and different cows produce milk with varying profiles... so yes it is flexible.




Did you check out the links to what Alan Aragon had to say about milk? Here's one paragraph:




See above.



You've been given plenty of facts. Open your eyes.

Just because it can do something does not mean it is optimal. Bodybuilders are looking for optimal diets. Why not just get micellar casein and whey isolates? Especially when milk can cause endomorphs to gain weight.

Again in the context of modern diet/food why do people still drink milk?

JDkeystone
02-23-2010, 04:31 PM
I drink/consume milk, cuz my cereal wouldn't taste good without it.

wnc817
02-23-2010, 04:31 PM
Again in the context of modern diet/food why do people still drink milk?

Because they like it.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Everything is designed with a specific purpose. You sir don't understand evolution.

You ever heard of the evolution of genetic redundancy. That's right we humans, as well as every other species have genes that do the same thing. Yup two or more genes that program the same exact genetic code. Each molecule of us isn't designed with a specific purpose it happens by chance. Then that chance can be used or chosen (by natural selection) to help that organism survive better than it's competitors. Over time that beneficial mutation is passed on by more and more of that species. Darwinian evolution.

Evolution is all about chance, not design.
http://www.ped.fas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/publications_nowak/Nature97.pdf

MrMostly
02-23-2010, 04:44 PM
Regardless of whether you can digest it or not, there are plenty of good reasons to not drink milk.
1. Loaded with sodium. This will make you retain water and look fleshy with less definition.
2. Modern milk is genetically modified with cows juiced with bovine growth hormone, antibiotics for chronic mastitis and pesticides to harvest the max. amount of milk.
3. Milk, subsidized by the federal government to buy the rural vote, is an ecological disaster being produced by factory farms.
4. Saturated Fat - bad for the arteries. Homogenized milk has damaged fat - even worse.
5. Lactose - a sugar. The western diet has more than enough.
6. Milk is mucus-forming, contributing to stuffy noses, runny eyes and upper respiratory problems. Even if you have the enzyme to digest milk, you may have some allergy to milk and will suffer from chronic runny nose or congestion. Many people, when they have these symptoms never think of milk but think hay fever or cat hair, etc.
7. Pasteurized milk has many of the vitamins cooked out of it.

If you are going to drink milk, drink organic raw milk (or human breast milk).

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 04:52 PM
I was talking about in general.
Okay? You said:

It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs.

Most people don't understand that we generally feed cows other cows to save costs? Maybe they don't understand it because it's not true?

2pacalypto
02-23-2010, 04:53 PM
Everything is designed with a specific purpose. You sir don't understand evolution.


Idiot. Species adapt by chance. Hence its underpinning: natural selection.

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 04:55 PM
Foods Designed for us...

Raw veggies
Raw fruits
Meat (cooked or raw)
Eggs
Bugs
Nuts/Seeds



Homogenized milk has damaged fat - even worse.

The stupid in this thread is starting to hurt my eyes. I think I'm done with this thread.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 05:00 PM
I wasn't talking about us. I was talking about the cows. It was rampant until they started to tighten up on how the cows were fed. Yes we don't have many cases but cases do show up in other diseases.

Oh ok my bad, yeah you are right in that respect

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 05:01 PM
Idiot. Species adapt by chance. Hence its underpinning: natural selection.
This is actually a misunderstanding of natural selection. As the quote below mentions, chance has a role in evolution, but chance is the opposite of natural selection. This of course isn't to say that any foods are designed or not designed for us or that anything is designed with a "purpose" as one clueless poster claims.


"The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance."

There is probably no other statement which is a better indication that the arguer doesn't understand evolution. Chance certainly plays a large part in evolution, but this argument completely ignores the fundamental role of natural selection, and selection is the very opposite of chance. Chance, in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the raw material that natural selection has to work with. From there, natural selection sorts out certain variations. Those variations which give greater reproductive success to their possessors (and chance ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable) are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. When the environment changes, or when organisms move to a different environment, different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Harmful mutations usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating.

Nor is abiogenesis (the origin of the first life) due purely to chance. Atoms and molecules arrange themselves not purely randomly, but according to their chemical properties. In the case of carbon atoms especially, this means complex molecules are sure to form spontaneously, and these complex molecules can influence each other to create even more complex molecules. Once a molecule forms that is approximately self-replicating, natural selection will guide the formation of ever more efficient replicators. The first self-replicating object didn't need to be as complex as a modern cell or even a strand of DNA. Some self-replicating molecules are not really all that complex (as organic molecules go).

Some people still argue that it is wildly improbable for a given self-replicating molecule to form at a given point (although they usually don't state the "givens," but leave them implicit in their calculations). This is true, but there were oceans of molecules working on the problem, and no one knows how many possible self-replicating molecules could have served as the first one. A calculation of the odds of abiogenesis is worthless unless it recognizes the immense range of starting materials that the first replicator might have formed from, the probably innumerable different forms that the first replicator might have taken, and the fact that much of the construction of the replicating molecule would have been non-random to start with.

(One should also note that the theory of evolution doesn't depend on how the first life began. The truth or falsity of any theory of abiogenesis wouldn't affect evolution in the least.)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

Fire8085
02-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Feb 2010. Status: successful troll.

dimasso69
02-23-2010, 05:11 PM
First off can someone explain the term troll..just curious..

Anyway i've been doing reading on the farming aspect not specifically milk but all of it: meat, eggs, dairy any animal food products..do all these hormones put into cows effect the milk?
Conclusion of the article from and ebscohost database:

"This public ignorance of this process has allowed the damaging effects of factory farming-inhumane treatment of animals; chemical and genetic modification of food plants and animals; pollution of the environment by pesticides, fertilizers, and GM crops; and economic and social damage to local communities-to continue unchallenged for decades"

ryan2921
02-23-2010, 05:12 PM
Foods Designed for us...

Raw veggies
Raw fruits
Meat (cooked or raw)
Eggs
Bugs
Nuts/Seeds


i personally prefer crickets

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Okay? You said:

It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs.

Most people don't understand that we generally feed cows other cows to save costs? Maybe they don't understand it because it's not true?

the source of BSE was cattle feed prepared from bovine tissues, such as brain and spinal cord, that was contaminated by the BSE agent.

This is from the link i put up. Yes it was done in the UK I wasn't referring to the US, I was using we as in people not a specific country or place. It's not whole cows but parts of cows specifically the brain and CNS that gets infected with the the disease.

x-ray vision
02-23-2010, 05:18 PM
the source of BSE was cattle feed prepared from bovine tissues, such as brain and spinal cord, that was contaminated by the BSE agent.

This is from the link i put up. Yes it was done in the UK I wasn't referring to the US, I was using we as in people not a specific country or place. It's not whole cows but parts of cows specifically the brain and CNS that gets infected with the the disease.

kingleviathan, you said:

"It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs."

You said we and you said feed, not fed in the U.K. at one time. We don't do it so there's nothing interesting about most people not understanding that we do it since we don't. I don't want to argue about this any longer, so go ahead and get in the last word.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 05:22 PM
kingleviathan, you said:

"It's just an interesting thing that most people still don't understand that we feed cows other cows to save costs."

You said we and you said feed, not fed in the U.K. at one time. We don't do it so there's nothing interesting about most people not understanding that we do it since we don't. I don't want to argue about this any longer, so go ahead and get in the last word.

Sorry I didn't put it in past tense. If someone cared that much they could've looked it up. And I have an earlier post saying that due to stricter rules yes the incidents of BSE in bovine have gone down drastically. I was in no way inferring that it is still massively going on today in the UK or any other country.

wnc817
02-23-2010, 05:44 PM
First off can someone explain the term troll..just curious..

Anyway i've been doing reading on the farming aspect not specifically milk but all of it: meat, eggs, dairy any animal food products..do all these hormones put into cows effect the milk?
Conclusion of the article from and ebscohost database:

"This public ignorance of this process has allowed the damaging effects of factory farming-inhumane treatment of animals; chemical and genetic modification of food plants and animals; pollution of the environment by pesticides, fertilizers, and GM crops; and economic and social damage to local communities-to continue unchallenged for decades"

"Trolling" means starting a thread in an attempt to get as many replies as possible, and to bring the lulz. The OP is just trying to get a reaction. In this case, he was obviously sucessful.

liammccarthy
02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
Regardless of whether you can digest it or not, there are plenty of good reasons to not drink milk.
1. Loaded with sodium. This will make you retain water and look fleshy with less definition.
2. Modern milk is genetically modified with cows juiced with bovine growth hormone, antibiotics for chronic mastitis and pesticides to harvest the max. amount of milk.
3. Milk, subsidized by the federal government to buy the rural vote, is an ecological disaster being produced by factory farms.
4. Saturated Fat - bad for the arteries. Homogenized milk has damaged fat - even worse.
5. Lactose - a sugar. The western diet has more than enough.
6. Milk is mucus-forming, contributing to stuffy noses, runny eyes and upper respiratory problems. Even if you have the enzyme to digest milk, you may have some allergy to milk and will suffer from chronic runny nose or congestion. Many people, when they have these symptoms never think of milk but think hay fever or cat hair, etc.
7. Pasteurized milk has many of the vitamins cooked out of it.

If you are going to drink milk, drink organic raw milk (or human breast milk).
1. 2 Glasses of 2% milk has 200 mg of sodium. Under 13% of the recommended dietry intake for your average male. An athlete or bodybuilder needs twice that of normal people due to losing salts through sweat etc.
2. It is illegal to supplement Dairy cows with rBGH and there are severe penalties for doing so. It is detrimental to your health but doesn't happen often.
3. True that, but with the human population at the level / concentration it is... can you provide an alternative?
4. That's why you drink 1 or 2% milk...
5. Sugar - A carbohydrate, necessary for preventing muscle breakdown.. I don't give a damn about the GI rating. Carbs are carbs are carbs are carbs... Unless you diabetic.
6. You may get this and you may get that. You may get joint pain, but do you attribute this to the LACK of calcium in your diet from not drinkning milk? I can tell you that I have cut milk out from my diet in the past and gains slowed. When I added milk back in, I feel better than ever, it's cheaper than hitting macro's with other protein/carb sources and my strength and size gains are better than ever.
7. Prove it. Besides, what's on the label is what's in the bottle... aka after the vitamins have been 'cooked' out of it.

Robb817
02-23-2010, 06:20 PM
What exactly is your goal with this thread?

FunkDaddy
02-23-2010, 06:39 PM
...you mean decided to specifically nourish calves for a finite period of time. I hope you realize adult cows don't drink milk, and there is probably a reason for that.

Would you suck on your mom's tit as a full grown adult?

mbieker1
02-23-2010, 06:42 PM
Everything is designed with a specific purpose. You sir don't understand evolution.
Nothing is designed, and the utility of any given attribute depends on environment.


What we do know: Adult humans were not meant to drink milk. (evolutionary perspective)
The ones who are descended from people whose survival depended largely on the ability to consume milk products sure are. Well, maybe not "meant," but they have the capacity, so why not exploit it?


Imagine no dairy, no refined carbohydrates, no stored butters, sugars, ect. I argue that this would be a healthy change for almost anyone.
I argue that you're a fool if you think that. Losing pizza, alone, would be a massive human tragedy.


Foods Designed for us...

Raw veggies
Raw fruits
Meat (cooked or raw)
Eggs
Bugs
Nuts/Seeds

...and whatever else was lying around when our ancestors roamed the earth. I believe this is the healthiest diet conceivable based on the information we have currently. Our bodies evolved to take in these forms of nutrition.
My ancestors evolved to digest and metabolize milk from cows. If yours didn't that sucks for you, because dairy products kick ass.


Maybe if most of the world has trouble digesting something than we can infer that it doesn't belong in our diet?
Right. And many people's bodies don't have any trouble digesting milk. Should I forgo peanuts too, because many are allergic to them? What kind of reasoning is that?


Just because it can do something does not mean it is optimal. Bodybuilders are looking for optimal diets.
Bodybuilding itself probably isn't optimal, when you get right down to it. Sure, your body can add all sorts of unnecessary mass, but is it optimal? Who effing cares?


Why not just get micellar casein and whey isolates? Especially when milk can cause endomorphs to gain weight.

Again in the context of modern diet/food why do people still drink milk?
Because its good, and healthy.

dragonballzg
02-23-2010, 06:51 PM
tastes good

LordGinger
02-23-2010, 07:20 PM
Milk:
Tastes good
Good amount of protein

I drink it all the time but oh noez what about my lactase and the lactose and the molecules.... I really don't give a flying fcuk

Colossal Spoons
02-23-2010, 07:34 PM
Fat, carbs, and protein. Stop me when I get to the bad part.

RB25DET
02-23-2010, 07:48 PM
The evidence in this thread has convinced me of how evil milk is. It is truley the beverage of satan, and I urge all of you sinners to repent and resist the temptation to consume this full bodied, voloptuous ivory white breast - I mean drink.

I will be replacing milk with beer.
I will let all of you know how my bulking stage develops.


Would you suck on your mom's tit as a full grown adult?


I'm a full grown adult, can I suck on his mom's tit too?

On Fire
02-23-2010, 08:15 PM
Who's we? You're saying we do this here in the U.S. and that it's still done in the U.K.?

Pretty sure there's laws against it now, but I'm sure this did occur on north american and european soil at some point.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 08:21 PM
Paleo Diet.

I am a follower, I am a believer, I am a supporter.

I suppose the people who believe milk is good for you think "wheat" bread is good because its wheat flour? In addition, some people seem to believe that whole grain pasta is a healthier option over regular pasta? Wheat flour, regular flour, whole grain...all the same 'ish'.

Sorry to say but what TV tells us, what the grocery store tells, and also, what the USDA tells us...all bull.

Funny how grains and dairy are recommended most by a organization (united states deparment of AGRICULTURE) that is in control of its own products.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 08:30 PM
Paleo Diet.

I am a follower, I am a believer, I am a supporter.

I suppose the people who believe milk is good for you think "wheat" bread is good because its wheat flour? In addition, some people seem to believe that whole grain pasta is a healthier option over regular pasta? Wheat flour, regular flour, whole grain...all the same 'ish'.

Sorry to say but what TV tells us, what the grocery store tells, and also, what the USDA tells us...all bull.

Funny how grains and dairy are recommended most by a organization (united states deparment of AGRICULTURE) that is in control of its own products.

WHOA WHOA WHOA STOP RIGHT THERE. Just stop. Go crawl back into your little cave. We don't need no stinkin' paleo bull in this here thread.

TheShock
02-23-2010, 08:38 PM
I don't understand why people still commonly refer to milk as a staple for nutrition. In my opinion it has no place in modern adult diet.

Most of the people in the world do not retain sufficient levels of the enzyme lactase and as a result can't breakdown the sugar found in milk (lactose). That means it passes into your bowel where it is fermented by bacteria thus causing gas, diarrhea, and cramps. Sound healthy?

In my opinion dairy products have no place in modern diet.

Discuss.


well people use milk not only because its cheap and you can find it pretty much anywhere. they use it for its meny functions. people that dont use it dont know what they are missing. milk can be used cutting or bulking. while cutting one can have bfast such as oats + whey powder + silk milk = 260cal 50g protein 30g dha omega-3 & calcium comes with zero cholesterol, no lactose. when bulking milk can be ones best friend. having a load of calories and protein, taking milk with micellar casein before bed everyday WILL get you results dont care what you say.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 08:48 PM
WHOA WHOA WHOA STOP RIGHT THERE. Just stop. Go crawl back into your little cave. We don't need no stinkin' paleo bull in this here thread.

This whole thread is about paleolithic based eating, atleast based upon the thread starters beliefs. Read the thread before you post.

Did I offend you in anyway? Wake up, read..look at some facts. Not even just milk, look at what is advertised to us ,look at what is on sale and being "pushed" on us at the grocery store.

Great writers and such natural food critics like Michael Pollen (written many books based on a 'caveman' esque diet) has acknowledged the tragedy that is the american diet. Why is it so unconceivable the the most natural foods the earth has supplied us would not be most beneficial? 'Man' has been in existence for 2.5 million years, yet only 10,000 years ago we became agriculturally dependent. Not to say this is the blood line to our western diet but def. the foods that have risen from this agricultural movement has not helped.

I am really not bashing people who drink milk but I think some people need to read up on diets that are not only for "CUTTING" and "BULKING" but rather longevity and health. The paleo diet brings those two to light.

kingleviathan
02-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Paleo Diet.

I am a follower, I am a believer, I am a supporter.

I suppose the people who believe milk is good for you think "wheat" bread is good because its wheat flour? In addition, some people seem to believe that whole grain pasta is a healthier option over regular pasta? Wheat flour, regular flour, whole grain...all the same 'ish'.

Sorry to say but what TV tells us, what the grocery store tells, and also, what the USDA tells us...all bull.

Funny how grains and dairy are recommended most by a organization (united states deparment of AGRICULTURE) that is in control of its own products.

Actually if your so into the "Paleo diet" I would look into what is meant by paleo. Paleolithic period human ancestors have shown evidence of animal husbandry and pastoralism. Who's to say that they didn't milk the animals they domesticated?

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 08:56 PM
Actually if your so into the "Paleo diet" I would look into what is meant by paleo. Paleolithic period human ancestors have shown evidence of animal husbandry and pastoralism. Who's to say that they didn't milk the animals they domesticated?

Show me such evidence. I have read a lot of about the paleolithic, neolithic era in general as well as their diet and life style. I like primitive living so I am actually eager to see the evidence. Thanks.

Also your statement is sort of misleading, as you dont exactly define "paleo" either. Just thought that was funny.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 08:58 PM
Just because it can do something does not mean it is optimal. Bodybuilders are looking for optimal diets. Why not just get micellar casein and whey isolates? Especially when milk can cause endomorphs to gain weight.

I think you've proven to all of us that you are not a bodybuilder.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 09:01 PM
Show me such evidence. I have read a lot of about the paleolithic, neolithic era in general as well as their diet and life style. I like primitive living so I am actually eager to see the evidence. Thanks.

Also your statement is sort of misleading, as you dont exactly define "paleo" either. Just thought that was funny.

Look champ, I'm not here to provide you with reasons as to why Paleo isn't worth wasting time on. It's been debunked multiple times on this forum and elsewhere. It's an exclusionary diet, and it really does exclude a lot of fantastic foods, many of which are absolutely healthy.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:01 PM
Ahhh, I am done debating. Should have never offered my two cents now I have all of these vultures coming after me.

Ill just stick to salivating over the "Meals eating now" Thread.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:02 PM
Look champ, I'm not here to provide you with reasons as to why Paleo isn't worth wasting time on. It's been debunked multiple times on this forum and elsewhere. It's an exclusionary diet, and it really does exclude a lot of fantastic foods, many of which are absolutely healthy.

Irrespective of my last post, what fantastic foods do you speak of?

EDIT: as for something being exclusionary, why is this bad? If it means life preservation, why not take that "risk" or lack there of. Granted you are not from the the US but in a country where 950,000+ die from heart disease dont you think health is a major issue? Not weather this certain food is optimal for cutting or bulking, just sad that not many look at the big picture of things.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 09:10 PM
Irrespective of my last post, what fantastic foods do you speak of?

EDIT: as for something being exclusionary, why is this bad? If it means life preservation, why not take that "risk" or lack there of.

How about I start with potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams? Three of my favourite food side dishes. Healthy, delicious, fantastic carb sources. How on earth are you going to claim that eating these will NEGATIVELY IMPACT life preservation???

Seriously, it's not the risk that's the issue, it's the lack of reward.

mbieker1
02-23-2010, 09:12 PM
Irrespective of my last post, what fantastic foods do you speak of?

EDIT: as for something being exclusionary, why is this bad? If it means life preservation, why not take that "risk" or lack there of. Granted you are not from the the US but in a country where 950,000+ die from heart disease dont you think health is a major issue? Not weather this certain food is optimal for cutting or bulking, just sad that not many look at the big picture of things.
I'd rather die of a heart attack tomorrow than adhere to the paleo diet, and I'd rather adhere to the paleo diet than preach about it on forums.

RealMenDeadLift
02-23-2010, 09:15 PM
Irrespective of my last post, what fantastic foods do you speak of?

EDIT: as for something being exclusionary, why is this bad? If it means life preservation, why not take that "risk" or lack there of. Granted you are not from the the US but in a country where 950,000+ die from heart disease dont you think health is a major issue? Not weather this certain food is optimal for cutting or bulking, just sad that not many look at the big picture of things.

It is unnecessarily exclusionary. The paleolithic diet dogma places blame where it doesn't belong...with the food, instead of the people eating the food. The paleolithic diet has no evidence, just severe extrapolations and ardent disciples, it is very much like a religion. The funniest part of it all is we are far more muscular and athletic today than our paleolithic ancestors. Much of them were short, weak, and chubby(except for periods of famine of course).

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:16 PM
How about I start with potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams? Three of my favourite food side dishes. Healthy, delicious, fantastic carb sources. How on earth are you going to claim that eating these will NEGATIVELY IMPACT life preservation???

Seriously, it's not the risk that's the issue, it's the lack of reward.

Fantastic carb sources? So something that is extremely high glycemic in addition holding a High glycemic load a good carb source? Are you running any marathons anytime soon, what is the purpose of the amount of carbs you eat?

CHO is certainly the main aerobic fuel but most if not all studies show have no significant impact on anaerobic training. Sorry folks.

Considering I have a bachelors of science from Temple University in Nutrient Metabolism and currently attending Grad school for exercise physiology and sports science, this is all baby talk right now. Champ.

mbieker1
02-23-2010, 09:20 PM
this is all baby talk right now. Champ.
It sure is, what with you childishly breaking out such weak credentials.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:20 PM
I'd rather die of a heart attack tomorrow than adhere to the paleo diet, and I'd rather adhere to the paleo diet than preach about it on forums.

Okay.

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:21 PM
It sure is, what with you childishly breaking out such weak credentials.

Not referring to you. Sorry bud. However, they are credentials, credentials I paid for with loans + tuition + mind.

Let me guess, you took a weekend warrior personal training certification class...?

mbieker1
02-23-2010, 09:27 PM
Not referring to you. Sorry bud. However, they are credentials, credentials I paid for with loans + tuition + mind.

Let me guess, you took a weekend warrior personal training certification class...?
Looks like your education has left you as poor a prognosticator as it has a professor!

JarHeaD316
02-23-2010, 09:33 PM
Looks like your education has left you as poor a prognosticator as it has a professor!

No not poor, but finances is not my thing. Wish I could continue the debate, but this debate has lasted for life times. Gotta sleep, good night.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:38 PM
You ever heard of the evolution of genetic redundancy. That's right we humans, as well as every other species have genes that do the same thing. Yup two or more genes that program the same exact genetic code. Each molecule of us isn't designed with a specific purpose it happens by chance. Then that chance can be used or chosen (by natural selection) to help that organism survive better than it's competitors. Over time that beneficial mutation is passed on by more and more of that species. Darwinian evolution.

Evolution is all about chance, not design.



Idiot. Species adapt by chance. Hence its underpinning: natural selection.


This is actually a misunderstanding of natural selection. As the quote below mentions, chance has a role in evolution, but chance is the opposite of natural selection. This of course isn't to say that any foods are designed or not designed for us or that anything is designed with a "purpose" as one clueless poster claims.




Let's not argue the mechanisms of evolution. In regards to the topic, the point is that milk has been "designed" (through evolution/natural selection), albeit perhaps not perfectly, to sustain/nourish young mammals. Can we agree on that? or does someone want to argue milk serves another primary purpose?



i personally prefer crickets

You Bear Grylls?


What exactly is your goal with this thread?

I am a health enthusiast and I think people are looking at diet/medicine/nutrition in a perverted way. First off I believe their is and never will be a line between food and medicine, so western medicine fails hard. Second I believe that if we have any model to live by as human beings it is found in our ancestral history as a specie, and not some new food/supplement/drug that we invented. This is because our bodies have been designed to work with our enviornment (which includes food).

So my goal is for more people to live healthier I guess.


Would you suck on your mom's tit as a full grown adult?

Many people drink human milk (freeze it ect). Not my cup of tea.


Nothing is designed, and the utility of any given attribute depends on environment.


The ones who are descended from people whose survival depended largely on the ability to consume milk products sure are. Well, maybe not "meant," but they have the capacity, so why not exploit it?


I argue that you're a fool if you think that. Losing pizza, alone, would be a massive human tragedy.


My ancestors evolved to digest and metabolize milk from cows. If yours didn't that sucks for you, because dairy products kick ass.


Right. And many people's bodies don't have any trouble digesting milk. Should I forgo peanuts too, because many are allergic to them? What kind of reasoning is that?


Bodybuilding itself probably isn't optimal, when you get right down to it. Sure, your body can add all sorts of unnecessary mass, but is it optimal? Who effing cares?


Because its good, and healthy.

No don't forego peanuts. First off, I'm talking a majority here. If your going to argue you need to argue in terms of averages, any statistician will tell you that. On average 60% of adults cannot digest lactose, that is significant. Your peanut example on average is small thus it's less significant. Second allergies are something people are developing as we progress not something from our evolutionary past.

Actually no specie besides humans have the ability to digest milk as adults. This applied to humans as well until some who lived in north america were no longer exposed to enough uv light from the sun to produce vitamin D.... research it.



Paleo Diet.

I am a follower, I am a believer, I am a supporter.

I suppose the people who believe milk is good for you think "wheat" bread is good because its wheat flour? In addition, some people seem to believe that whole grain pasta is a healthier option over regular pasta? Wheat flour, regular flour, whole grain...all the same 'ish'.

Sorry to say but what TV tells us, what the grocery store tells, and also, what the USDA tells us...all bull.

Funny how grains and dairy are recommended most by a organization (united states deparment of AGRICULTURE) that is in control of its own products.

I'm not saying these things are bad for you per se, but I do believe the foods our ancestors ate is an optimal diet for a human being. It's the best that we can do, we are giving our bodies what we have been designed to eat.


WHOA WHOA WHOA STOP RIGHT THERE. Just stop. Go crawl back into your little cave. We don't need no stinkin' paleo bull in this here thread.

Actually we don't need you in this thread. See ya.


well people use milk not only because its cheap and you can find it pretty much anywhere. they use it for its meny functions. people that dont use it dont know what they are missing. milk can be used cutting or bulking. while cutting one can have bfast such as oats + whey powder + silk milk = 260cal 50g protein 30g dha omega-3 & calcium comes with zero cholesterol, no lactose. when bulking milk can be ones best friend. having a load of calories and protein, taking milk with micellar casein before bed everyday WILL get you results dont care what you say.

I can only speak for myself but... I can't drink milk for clean bulking let alone cutting. You need to consider different body types as well. But ya, it could be good for ectomorphs ect.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:42 PM
I think you've proven to all of us that you are not a bodybuilder.

Where did I claim to be a bodybuilder? Literacy, you don't have it.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:46 PM
Look champ, I'm not here to provide you with reasons as to why Paleo isn't worth wasting time on. It's been debunked multiple times on this forum and elsewhere. It's an exclusionary diet, and it really does exclude a lot of fantastic foods, many of which are absolutely healthy.

debunked? This mythbusters? I saw a thread about Paleo the other day on here....

trance__dreamer
02-23-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm a full grown adult, can I suck on his mom's tit too?

LMFAO. xD

Rufflez
02-23-2010, 09:49 PM
The evidence in this thread has convinced me of how evil milk is. It is truley the beverage of satan, and I urge all of you sinners to repent and resist the temptation to consume this full bodied, voloptuous ivory white breast - I mean drink.

I will be replacing milk with beer.
I will let all of you know how my bulking stage develops.




I'm a full grown adult, can I suck on his mom's tit too?
lol u can but thats nasty and she probably stopped producing milk a while ago.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 09:52 PM
Fantastic carb sources? So something that is extremely high glycemic in addition holding a High glycemic load a good carb source? Are you running any marathons anytime soon, what is the purpose of the amount of carbs you eat?

CHO is certainly the main aerobic fuel but most if not all studies show have no significant impact on anaerobic training. Sorry folks.

Considering I have a bachelors of science from Temple University in Nutrient Metabolism and currently attending Grad school for exercise physiology and sports science, this is all baby talk right now. Champ.

I'd love to know why you think I give a rats ass about glycemic load, or the scale at all within reason.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 09:54 PM
Where did I claim to be a bodybuilder? Literacy, you don't have it.

I just nailed it.

You're preaching to bodybuilders, and you're not one. Why do you think we keep Alan Aragon in high regard? The guy is tried tested and true when it comes to nutrition.

Where are your credentials? Who have you trained, as you clearly have never put yourself through a bodybuilding diet.

Take your paleo bs elsewhere. I wish they'd make a paleo subforum so we could clear you homos outta here.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 09:54 PM
milk is awesome. i feel sorry to hear that it gives you gas, diarrhea, and cramps. you must not have had many friends in elementary school, when everyone got milk for lunch.

I actually have no problem digesting it, just bigger picture stuff here.

Timmm567
02-23-2010, 10:13 PM
How about I start with potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams? Three of my favourite food side dishes. Healthy, delicious, fantastic carb sources. How on earth are you going to claim that eating these will NEGATIVELY IMPACT life preservation???

Seriously, it's not the risk that's the issue, it's the lack of reward.

An uncooked potato can kill you. Death would most likely negatively impact life preservation. Nothing you say is even remotely insightful, so please stop posting in my thread.

On Fire
02-23-2010, 10:21 PM
An uncooked potato can kill you. Death would most likely negatively impact life preservation. Nothing you say is even remotely insightful, so please stop posting in my thread.

This must be a joke. Uncooked meat can also kill you. If you can cook meat, you can cook sweet potatoes.