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UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 09:58 AM
As mentioned in another thread, I plan on slowly gaining muscle mass whilst keeping a low body-fat. Plan on working out 4 days a week (Mon, Wed, Thurs, Sat), in total about 3 workout hours a week.

Below are the TBW, total calories, carbs and fat per day based on Alan Aragon's recommended calculations (was in a recent Men's Health article - judging by how well respected he is here decided to take his advice).

Target BW - 180lbs (plan to be about 170lbs after cutting - at about 7% body fat)
Total Calories - 2250
Total Carbs - 180
Total Protein - 180
Total Fat - 90


Having used Alan Aragon's rules for pre and pro workout meals from this forum, I've arranged my planned diet on workout days as follows:

breakfast
carbs: 28 protein: 20

2-3 hours later
carbs: 25 protein: 20

2-3 hours later - PRE-WORKOUT
carbs: 45 protein: 45

Immediately after workout - POST-WORKOUT
carbs: 45 protein: 45

2-3 hours later
carbs: 25 protein: 20

2-3 hours later
cottage cheese
carbs: 12 protein: 30


Thoughts? The pre and pro workout meals are higher in calories, the cottage cheese before sleep being rather low in cals, and the other three meals being nearly equal in calories.

On non-workout days, I've arranged everything to be roughly equal in carbs and protein, with slightly less carbs towards the end of the day, and slightly more at breakfast (so basically some light carb tapering). Calories are roughly the same, a little more here and there.

Zelda55
01-14-2010, 10:12 AM
way too few calories if you really will be 170 at 7%...at that level, your maintenance will be closer to 2500 than 2000. think about it...the nutrition labels on the back of food boxes are based on average unfit types and the maintenance for those is 2000 calories. obviously, if you're 170 lbs at 7%, you have significantly more lean mass to maintain than the average schmuck. i would start at 3000 and adjust up or down from there.

UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 10:33 AM
way too few calories if you really will be 170 at 7%...at that level, your maintenance will be closer to 2500 than 2000. think about it...the nutrition labels on the back of food boxes are based on average unfit types and the maintenance for those is 2000 calories. obviously, if you're 170 lbs at 7%, you have significantly more lean mass to maintain than the average schmuck. i would start at 3000 and adjust up or down from there.

Hmmm, well I see your thinking, I based my calorific goals from Alan Aragon, I can't link to the page due to my post count, but its on a US Men's Health page about Taylor Lautner gaining muscle, and goes as follows:

goal weight x (workout hours per week + 9.5) = daily number of calories

for me:

180lbs x 12.5 (3 + 9.5) = 2250

I am tempted to up it, but again, as I said, I want to gain muscle slowly and keep the body-fat % around the same. So am worried if that many calories would change that.

Also, carb amount is based on calorie intake:

daily calories - [( protein grams x 4) + ( fat grams x 9)] / 4 = grams of carbs (180 for me)

So I would change the carbs also? Protein intake is just goal weight, and fat half goal weight, so that stays. Cheers.

Zelda55
01-14-2010, 11:01 AM
as long as you get enough protein and your EFAs, the exact carb intake is relatively insignificant/an afterthought given that you're at least taking in a surplus of calories. i dunno about that formula because it seems to undershoot the calories needed in most cases. the multiplier seems like a pretty arbitrary factor although i'd presume some research went into it. i'm pretty paranoid about upping my calories because i prefer lean gains, but even to me 2250 seems way too low for someone at 170 lbs with 7% BF.

alan aragon
01-14-2010, 11:07 AM
That formula runs low for some, high for others. Formulas are only useful if you've had a long history of haphazard eating and do not have an idea of what your maintenance requirements are. Also, keep in mind that the audience that formula was directed to was more of a newbie fat-loss audience than a muscle-gain audience. I have other formulas that are geared toward other goals, but they're kinda proprietary (for lack of a better word). You got that formula from Men's Health, whose average reader is a deskbound, overweight guy in his late 20's to mid 30's.

My suggestion is to take a look at what's been maintaining you (I'm gonna assume you know since you're posting at BB.com where most of us are OCD), and add either a slight surplus (200-300 kcal, consisting of an even split of prot & carb) if you have an easy tendency to gain fat, or a more aggressive surplus (500-800 kcal, consisting of about 1/3 prot & 2/3 carb) if you don't gain fat easily & have a hell of a time gaining weight. Once you plateau, if you're not at the goal, add another surplus, repeat.

UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 12:01 PM
That formula runs low for some, high for others. Formulas are only useful if you've had a long history of haphazard eating and do not have an idea of what your maintenance requirements are. Also, keep in mind that the audience that formula was directed to was more of a newbie fat-loss audience than a muscle-gain audience. I have other formulas that are geared toward other goals, but they're kinda proprietary (for lack of a better word). You got that formula from Men's Health, whose average reader is a deskbound, overweight guy in his late 20's to mid 30's.

My suggestion is to take a look at what's been maintaining you (I'm gonna assume you know since you're posting at BB.com where most of us are OCD), and add either a slight surplus (200-300 kcal, consisting of an even split of prot & carb) if you have an easy tendency to gain fat, or a more aggressive surplus (500-800 kcal, consisting of about 1/3 prot & 2/3 carb) if you don't gain fat easily & have a hell of a time gaining weight. Once you plateau, if you're not at the goal, add another surplus, repeat.

Thank you very much for the reply. I wrongly assumed that the formula was used by Taylor Lautner. I have an easy tendency to gain fat so will up the total calories to 2500, alongside an increase in carbs and protein.

One question for clarification, am I right in saying the surplus be added to the calorie intake listed above (2250 resulting in 2500)? I ask as I'm aggressively dropping to 7% body fat from 15%, so I won't really know what I should be eating to maintain the low body-fat level and muscle.

Is the way I scheduled good?

alan aragon
01-14-2010, 12:08 PM
Thank you very much for the reply. I wrongly assumed that the formula was used by Taylor Lautner. I have an easy tendency to gain fat so will up the total calories to 2500, alongside an increase in carbs and protein.

One question for clarification, am I right in saying the surplus be added to the calorie intake listed above (2250 resulting in 2500)? I ask as I'm aggressively dropping to 7% body fat from 15%, so I won't really know what I should be eating to maintain the low body-fat level and muscle.

Is the way I scheduled good?By definition, a surplus is anything beyond your maintenance kcals. What's your mainenance kcals? The numbers you derived from the MH article simply aren't appropriate for a lot of folks on BBing forums trying mainly to gain muscle.

UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 12:13 PM
By definition, a surplus is anything beyond your maintenance kcals. What's your mainenance kcals? The numbers you derived from the MH article simply aren't appropriate for a lot of folks on BBing forums trying mainly to gain muscle.

Using BMR, it looks like if sedentary about 2400, about 2800-3000 according to Harris Benedict.

alan aragon
01-14-2010, 12:30 PM
Using BMR, it looks like if sedentary about 2400, about 2800-3000 according to Harris Benedict.I'm not talking about your maintenance based on standard formulas, those can either be right-on or way off. I'm talking about your maintenance based on your personal observations/tracking of diet history. Should I guess at this point you don't have an idea of what it might be, because you've never tracked it?

SumDumGoi
01-14-2010, 12:41 PM
As mentioned in another thread, I plan on slowly gaining muscle mass whilst keeping a low body-fat. Plan on working out 4 days a week (Mon, Wed, Thurs, Sat), in total about 3 workout hours a week.

Below are the TBW, total calories, carbs and fat per day based on Alan Aragon's recommended calculations (was in a recent Men's Health article - judging by how well respected he is here decided to take his advice).

Target BW - 180lbs (plan to be about 170lbs after cutting - at about 7% body fat)
Total Calories - 2250
Total Carbs - 180
Total Protein - 180
Total Fat - 90




Are you currently at 7% bodyfat or are you trying to cut to get to 7% bodyfat? If the latter is the case and you plan on losing 10 lbs to do so that would mean your goal bodyfat would be 1.6%. I don't think that is a very reasonable goal to aim for. Perhaps I just read it wrong though.

UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm not talking about your maintenance based on standard formulas, those can either be right-on or way off. I'm talking about your maintenance based on your personal observations/tracking of diet history. Should I guess at this point you don't have an idea of what it might be, because you've never tracked it?

To tell the truth, no, over the last couple of years where I've started to look after myself, I've been on 2000 cals a day when losing fat at university, when back home for holidays I've been training harder with weights, eating more (not counting cals), and subsequently putting on muscle and fat simulatenously, until I go back to university where I shed the fat off.

Basically, I'm happy with my muscle amount for the moment, and gotten down to 15% body fat (lost over 2 stone of fat over the last 2 years) so I plan on spending my last semester at university being strict on 2000 cals a day with lots of protein, not cheating, so as to lower down to 7% body fat, then as mentioned in this and another thread, want to find a maintenance diet to maintain that fat percentage and slowly add muscle. My goal would be 180lbs at 7-8% body fat. I'm currently 180lbs at 15% body fat, hope to be 170lbs at 7-8% body fat by first week of February, plan to start dieting the last week of this month.




Are you currently at 7% bodyfat or are you trying to cut to get to 7% bodyfat? If the latter is the case and you plan on losing 10 lbs to do so that would mean your goal bodyfat would be 1.6%. I don't think that is a very reasonable goal to aim for. Perhaps I just read it wrong though.

Um, no, I plan to get to 7% at 170lbs, then gain 10lbs of muscle to hit 180lbs whilst maintaining 7-8% bodyfat.

SumDumGoi
01-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Um, no, I plan to get to 7% at 170lbs, then gain 10lbs of muscle to hit 180lbs whilst maintaining 7-8% bodyfat.

Oops, that should have stated 'if the "former".....' and yes I read it wrong. Good thing!

alan aragon
01-14-2010, 12:52 PM
To tell the truth, no, over the last couple of years where I've started to look after myself, I've been on 2000 cals a day when losing fat at university, when back home for holidays I've been training harder with weights, eating more (not counting cals), and subsequently putting on muscle and fat simulatenously, until I go back to university where I shed the fat off.

Basically, I'm happy with my muscle amount for the moment, and gotten down to 15% body fat (lost over 2 stone of fat over the last 2 years) so I plan on spending my last semester at university being strict on 2000 cals a day with lots of protein, not cheating, so as to lower down to 7% body fat, then as mentioned in this and another thread, want to find a maintenance diet to maintain that fat percentage and slowly add muscle. My goal would be 180lbs at 7-8% body fat. I'm currently 180lbs at 15% body fat, hope to be 170lbs at 7-8% body fat by first week of February, plan to start dieting the last week of this month.





Um, no, I plan to get to 7% at 170lbs, then gain 10lbs of muscle to hit 180lbs whilst maintaining 7-8% bodyfat.Ok. Given that data, your maintenance is probably in the neighborhood of the mid-2000's, with some variation depending on how sedentary or active you are outside of training. With that said, I'll quote my previous post:

"My suggestion is to take a look at what's been maintaining you (I'm gonna assume you know since you're posting at BB.com where most of us are OCD), and add either a slight surplus (200-300 kcal, consisting of an even split of prot & carb) if you have an easy tendency to gain fat, or a more aggressive surplus (500-800 kcal, consisting of about 1/3 prot & 2/3 carb) if you don't gain fat easily & have a hell of a time gaining weight. Once you plateau, if you're not at the goal, add another surplus, repeat."

UltimateNonStop
01-14-2010, 01:04 PM
Ok. Given that data, your maintenance is probably in the neighborhood of the mid-2000's, with some variation depending on how sedentary or active you are outside of training. With that said, I'll quote my previous post:

"My suggestion is to take a look at what's been maintaining you (I'm gonna assume you know since you're posting at BB.com where most of us are OCD), and add either a slight surplus (200-300 kcal, consisting of an even split of prot & carb) if you have an easy tendency to gain fat, or a more aggressive surplus (500-800 kcal, consisting of about 1/3 prot & 2/3 carb) if you don't gain fat easily & have a hell of a time gaining weight. Once you plateau, if you're not at the goal, add another surplus, repeat."

I see. Maintenance at 7% body fat at 170lbs; 2500. When I hit 170lbs at 7%, I'll add a further 200cals, so I'll be eating 2700cals to try and gain more muscle without adding fat. Correct?

Assume I up my cals through carbs and protein equally outside of the pre and pro workout meals to hit 2700 cals, how many carbs should I be having? Or does that depend also on how active I am outside exercise? I was thinking around thee 220 mark, but I'm no nutritionist!

Thanks for all the help you've been giving.

Wally_West
01-22-2010, 08:39 AM
I have other formulas that are geared toward other goals, but they're kinda proprietary (for lack of a better word).

Can we gain access to these formula's in your book?