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morning_wood
01-04-2010, 01:19 PM
60g cheese = 240 calories
20g fat
2g carb
14g protein

2 whole wheat breads = 190
3g fat
34g carb
7g protein


TOTAL: 430 calories
23 Fat
36 Carb
21 Protein

Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%

sunngodd
01-04-2010, 01:21 PM
What's healthy should be considered in terms of your overall diet, not one particular food choice.

joen270
01-04-2010, 01:21 PM
sort of a waste of calories if you ask me. I think I could get a lot more food in me for 430 cals

Attaus
01-04-2010, 01:25 PM
I would've thought grilled cheese was worse than that. If you were on a strict cutting diet I would say no, but if you're trying to bulk definitely go for it.

mmmdonuts
01-04-2010, 01:26 PM
fats should be kept lower unless you're on a keto diet, which i assume you're not. cheese is something to be eaten in smaller quantities. though it's got good protein it also has a lot of fat. you're also adding a lot of carbs with the two slices of bread. it depends on what your nutritional goals are.

oh and don't forget if you are making a grilled cheese you are buttering the bread on the outside so it will brown in the pan, right? that's a lot of fat right there too. you can try olive oil for healthier fats but they will be fats nonetheless.

BalloonKnot
01-04-2010, 01:28 PM
Jim Wendler seems to think so...along with a side of Fina. srs

Opies
01-04-2010, 01:32 PM
I make grilled cheese will processed cheese.

bread: 130kcal, 5g PRO
cheese: 70kcal, 10g PRO
ketchup: 40kcal

240 kcal, 15g PRO

seems good to me

mmmdonuts
01-04-2010, 01:35 PM
I make grilled cheese will processed cheese.

bread: 130kcal, 5g PRO
cheese: 70kcal, 10g PRO
ketchup: 40kcal

240 kcal, 15g PRO

seems good to me

ew, processed!! lol

ClassicKaley
01-04-2010, 01:41 PM
60g cheese = 240 calories
20g fat
2g carb
14g protein

2 whole wheat breads = 190
3g fat
34g carb
7g protein


TOTAL: 430 calories
23 Fat
36 Carb
21 Protein

Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%

I don't know that much about nutrition as well, but you can always add tomatoes or avocadoes to add some more nutritional content and taste.

morning_wood
01-04-2010, 01:41 PM
thanks guys.

my goal is to bulk but add as minimum fat as possible. I don't care how slow it'll take.

and i love my grilled cheese sandwhiches :(

maybe ill balance it out with something that's very low in fat and high in protein..

mmmdonuts
01-04-2010, 01:45 PM
thanks guys.

my goal is to bulk but add as minimum fat as possible. I don't care how slow it'll take.

and i love my grilled cheese sandwhiches :(

maybe ill balance it out with something that's very low in fat and high in protein..


if you're bulking then you can take in more carbs. but you should always watch the fat intake.

i personally like to have a french-toasted peanut butter jelly sandwich sometimes on a bulk. add maple syrup to it. it's healthier than a grilled cheese.

SwiftyX
01-04-2010, 02:19 PM
" I've found a direct correlation between being awesome and the uninhibited consumption of grilled cheese." - Jim Wendler

Haha.

Healthy? There are much healthier options. They are great for filling calories in though.

dimasso69
01-04-2010, 02:29 PM
thanks guys.

my goal is to bulk but add as minimum fat as possible. I don't care how slow it'll take.

and i love my grilled cheese sandwhiches :(

maybe ill balance it out with something that's very low in fat and high in protein..
dont be sad bro..eat it daily if u want..then vary the rest of your diet. I love my ice cream cone at night..so i eat it..ur diet wont fail because of it. Like u said balance it out with higher protein meals. OVERALL cals and macros bro that's what's key.


if you're bulking then you can take in more carbs. but you should always watch the fat intake.

i personally like to have a french-toasted peanut butter jelly sandwich sometimes on a bulk. add maple syrup to it. it's healthier than a grilled cheese.

what u just said is complete garbage.

krott5333
01-04-2010, 02:50 PM
Ezekiel bread and cottage cheese grilled sammich? yup

sarahkay_3
01-04-2010, 03:43 PM
60g cheese = 240 calories
20g fat
2g carb
14g protein

2 whole wheat breads = 190
3g fat
34g carb
7g protein


TOTAL: 430 calories
23 Fat
36 Carb
21 Protein

Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%
Most people who make *grilled* cheese put butter on the bread and then proceed to use the added fat to grill it in a pan...if that's what you're doing don't forget about the cals/fat in the butter. If you are just melting under the broiler then that's cheese toast.

Rodzilla
01-04-2010, 03:46 PM
Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%

and very little about physiology.

Murderfox
01-04-2010, 05:19 PM
60g cheese = 240 calories
20g fat
2g carb
14g protein

2 whole wheat breads = 190
3g fat
34g carb
7g protein


TOTAL: 430 calories
23 Fat
36 Carb
21 Protein

Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%

If you care bout the cals so much go buy some Natures own double fiber bread. 50 cals/ slice n 13g carbs (5g fiber)

RealMenDeadLift
01-04-2010, 05:44 PM
Grilled cheese is ****ing delicious and should be by no means excluded from one's diet out of sheer epicness

FunkDaddy
01-04-2010, 05:51 PM
ew, processed!! lol

I love processed cheese in grilled cheese sandwiches...and that's about it lol. I only ever buy it when it's super cheap on sale and go nuts on the GC sandwiches.

Obnoxious123
01-04-2010, 06:36 PM
why would grilling bread and cheese make it bad? but i do think it's a "pointless" meal to have, where's the protein?

mmmdonuts
01-05-2010, 06:20 AM
what u just said is complete garbage.

how's that??

Lifterforlife10
01-05-2010, 07:30 AM
how's that??
Because you keep suggesting the avoidance of fat

as for the op, just don't make those the sole source of your intake, everything is fine in moderation.

laxer32
01-05-2010, 08:35 AM
At 146lbs, OP should eat 3 at a time.

RandyJH
01-05-2010, 08:41 AM
and very little about physiology.

Whys that? It is a very real idea to lower bf% on a bulk. Its not the worlds easiest thing to do, but very possible none the less. (EDITED FOR EPIC MORNING MATH FAIIIIIL). A few factors determine the likelyhood of this, but its not impossible none the less


Grilled cheese is ****ing delicious and should be by no means excluded from one's diet out of sheer epicness
This. But hes missing the tomato soup!


how's that??

He's right. And particularly well versed in nutrition for his age.

News flash: Dietary fat does NOT make you fat!

ives
01-05-2010, 08:42 AM
Edit:
I'm dead serious I know nothing about proper nutrition and am trying to bulk while lowering bf%

Bulk = caloric excess. "Lowering BF%" = losing fat = cutting = caloric deficit. O_o

As to whether grilled cheese sandwiches are "healthy," that depends on the cheese, the bread, the preparation method, and your goals. An ounce of grated skim (or part-skim) cheese on 2 slices of sprouted bread sounds healthy. Four Kraft singles on some Wonderbread pan-toasted in butter sounds like a chemical ****storm.

Sebas94
01-05-2010, 08:42 AM
who cares about fats or carbs or any of that. The only things that matter are protein and overall calorie intake.

Im doing pretty good on my bulk and not adding a lot of fat by just making sure I get enough protein and the right amount of calories. I eat a 1 dollar double cheeseburger from burger king every day!

RandyJH
01-05-2010, 08:49 AM
Bulk = caloric excess. "Lowering BF%" = losing fat = cutting = caloric deficit. O_o

As to whether grilled cheese sandwiches are "healthy," that depends on the cheese, the bread, the preparation method, and your goals. An ounce of grated skim (or part-skim) cheese on 2 slices of sprouted bread sounds healthy. Four Kraft singles on some Wonderbread pan-toasted in butter sounds like a chemical ****storm.

Hah, a bit of a math fail my friend. While cutting is the best way to lower bf%, thats not how the math plays out.

And OP the word "healthy" is about meaningless as the word "clean". There is nothing wrong with a "chemical ****storm?!?!?!" in a varied diet that meets your minium requirments.

OP follow these rules and you'll have sucess.

1. Eat enough protein
2. Eat enough calories
3. Fuel your workout (or at least I like to do this)
4. Try to get a little variety in your diet
5. Use common sense
6. Lift heavy, and add weight to the bar when ya can.



who cares about fats or carbs or any of that. The only things that matter are protein and overall calorie intake.

Im doing pretty good on my bulk and not adding a lot of fat by just making sure I get enough protein and the right amount of calories. I eat a 1 dollar double cheeseburger from burger king every day!

I like you already. Repped.

EmperorRyker
01-05-2010, 09:17 AM
If water+glycogen+muscle+other****>fat mass gained percentage is lower.

Not to be an ass, but you do realize that your equation is valid only if one begins bulking at 50% BF?


Hah, a bit of a math fail my friend. While cutting is the best way to lower bf%, thats not how the math plays out.

Even though ives's statement wasn't bulletproof, either, his math does play out in the majority of cases, while yours doesn't. I realize what you were trying to say, though, so perhaps you just misworded it a bit ;)

mmmdonuts
01-05-2010, 09:38 AM
He's right. And particularly well versed in nutrition for his age.

News flash: Dietary fat does NOT make you fat!

i know that, but it's still necessary to watch your macro ratios.

RandyJH
01-05-2010, 09:41 AM
Not to be an ass, but you do realize that your equation is valid only if one begins bulking at 50% BF?


Even though ives's statement wasn't bulletproof, either, his math does play out in the majority of cases, while yours doesn't. I realize what you were trying to say, though, so perhaps you just misworded it a bit ;)

Your NEVER an ass for correcting someone, and to think I got 100.7% in my alg. class last semester. How rediculous! I still hold my point on in being it being very possible to achieve. But yes I more or less did "misword" it. Seeing as I really don't want to do alot of thinking this morning. Is their an X Y formula you could set up that would help determine this? Im sure their is one, but I'm not about to spend time figuring it out.


Well lets do an example here.

Suppose your 170lbs @ 12% bf. Thats 20.4 lbs fat mass, and 149.6 lbs LBM

Suppose over the course of your bulk you can gain 12lbs lbm, and 1.5 lbs of fat mass.

So you now weigh 184 with 22.4 lbs of fat mass. 21.9/183.5= 11.9% bf

Many factors affect the likely hood of this happening tho.

Age, genetics, training experiance, training, specific diet protocols, and sadly the most influential....drugs.

With friends and myself included I have seen it done multiple times.

RandyJH
01-05-2010, 09:45 AM
i know that, but it's still necessary to watch your macro ratios.

Why?

Sebas94
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
i know that, but it's still necessary to watch your macro ratios.

No...its just making your life harder and less enjoyable...gaining or losing weight doesnt have to be so hard as what people make it by counting macros....god

andyfan692011
01-05-2010, 12:27 PM
You can get fat free cheese and lower cal bread if your that concerned.

2slices ff cheese= 60 calories
2 slices of whole wheat nature's own light bread= 80 cals

= 140 cals

Ally_Cat
01-05-2010, 12:29 PM
You can get fat free cheese and lower cal bread if your that concerned.

2slices ff cheese= 60 calories
2 slices of whole wheat nature's own light bread= 80 cals

= 140 cals

fat free cheese is horrible. Stuff doesnt melt and the fat is replaced with sugars.

I say enjoy a reduced fat cheese on whole wheat bread... I see nothing wrong with a grilled cheese. Just don't butter the bread. Use Olive Oil or something to toast it a bit though

dimasso69
01-06-2010, 12:28 PM
fat free cheese is horrible. Stuff doesnt melt and the fat is replaced with sugars.

I say enjoy a reduced fat cheese on whole wheat bread... I see nothing wrong with a grilled cheese. Just don't butter the bread. Use Olive Oil or something to toast it a bit though

Im pretty sure the fat is not replaced with sugars..there are less calories..so that's not the case. At 30cals a slice where's the sugar? But idk how great it would taste, but that's besides the point it was a lower calorie option because people are saying it's BAD when really it's not

dimasso69
01-06-2010, 12:35 PM
if you're bulking then you can take in more carbs. but you should always watch the fat intake.

i personally like to have a french-toasted peanut butter jelly sandwich sometimes on a bulk. add maple syrup to it. it's healthier than a grilled cheese.

this is complete garbage because....


how's that??

Option A:french toasted peanut butter jelly sandwich with syrup..vs
Option B: grilled cheese
You believe option A is healthier..now hm..how? i don't see how..do you? Less fat? um i don't really know Peanut butter is high in fat, less carbs? no you have bread, jelly and syrup..more micronutrients? uh no..not at all. What makes it healthier?
I am not saying what you eat is bad, i am saying it's not "heathier" than a grilled cheese like you claimed.


i know that, but it's still necessary to watch your macro ratios.

It's necessary to get sufficent protein and "energy" calories yes energy=fat AND Carbohydrates..not one or the other. Fat is more important for EFA's, and then choose which u prefer to eat for your energy sources, find what ur body works best off.

Ally_Cat
01-06-2010, 12:45 PM
To replace the fat they usually add some sort of carb or sugar to it. And while the label might be low in carbs you have to think about how processed it is... fat free cheese isn't quite natural,

and i was reading a fitness website today for women and grilled cheese was one of the links. It linked to a blog but the article actually had some good suggestions for a healthy grilled cheese.

http://blog.healthyeats.com/blog/2010/01/05/grilled-cheese-lightened-up/

dimasso69
01-06-2010, 12:59 PM
To replace the fat they usually add some sort of carb or sugar to it. And while the label might be low in carbs you have to think about how processed it is... fat free cheese isn't quite natural,

and i was reading a fitness website today for women and grilled cheese was one of the links. It linked to a blog but the article actually had some good suggestions for a healthy grilled cheese.

http://blog.healthyeats.com/blog/2010/01/05/grilled-cheese-lightened-up/

http://www.fatsecret.com/Diary.aspx?pa=fjrd&rid=31328
thats the nutrition facts one gram of sugar.

but what negative affects would one's body encounter from consuming fat free cheese..due to the processing of it, if you claim that is bad. What bad affects would occur? You can say not natural is not good, but why?

Ally_Cat
01-06-2010, 01:20 PM
http://www.fatsecret.com/Diary.aspx?pa=fjrd&rid=31328
thats the nutrition facts one gram of sugar.

but what negative affects would one's body encounter from consuming fat free cheese..due to the processing of it, if you claim that is bad. What bad affects would occur? You can say not natural is not good, but why?

Ingredients
Whey, Skim Milk, Milk Powder Concentrate, Water, Dried Corn Syrup, contains Less than 2% of Sodium Citrate, Lactic Acid, Sorbic Acid as a Preservative, Artificial Color, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil (Trivial Source of Fat)Buttermilk Trivial Source of Fat)Carrageenan, Cellulose Gum, Artificial Flavor (Trivial Source of Fat)Natural Flavor (Trivial Source of Fat)Cheese Culture, Enzymes, Vitamin A Palmitate

Thats for fat free kraft singles mozzarella flavored


Just look over the ingredients. To each his own, you can eat fat free cheese if you'd like but for myself i'd rather skip the processed rubbery cheese and get some thats more natural and has fewer ingredients. Example:

Sargento Reduced Fat, Provolone Cheese
Ingredients
Pasteurized Reduced Fat Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes, Natural Smoke Flavor, Vitamin A Palmitate, Natamycin (a Natural Mold Inhibitor


As you can tell there are less fillers but as I said earlier everyone can eat what they want. This example of reduced fat cheese is 50 calories a slice and 3.5 grams of sugar and 0 grams of carbs.

VulcanFlame
01-06-2010, 01:34 PM
who cares about fats or carbs or any of that. The only things that matter are protein and overall calorie intake.

Im doing pretty good on my bulk and not adding a lot of fat by just making sure I get enough protein and the right amount of calories. I eat a 1 dollar double cheeseburger from burger king every day!

Fat plays a significant role on hormonal balance for instance.
Also, gluconeogenesis from protein is MUCH more inefficient than from fat (that if you are consuming very little or no carbs).
The botton line is: Make sure to get your carbs and fats if you are on a standard diet.
-Carbs gives you the energy for your workout and daily activities (if you are not on a keto diet). It is the prefered source of you body for energy production.
-Fat plays a myriad of roles in your body: Hormonal balance, joint health, vitamin absorbtion and even tissue synthesis are some of them.
-Protein is primarily used for tissue synthesis. Of course, there is various chemicals reactions involved in this process on which protein participates as enzymes. In the absence of CHO and Fat, Amino acids provenient from protein can be used for energy production as well.

morning_wood
01-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Why?

Calories = weight

Macros determine what KIND of weight.

If you ate chocolate cake and only chocolate cake and only went over your maintenance by a little bit. You'll turn into a big blob of fat **** lol.

We Drowned
01-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Your NEVER an ass for correcting someone, and to think I got 100.7% in my alg. class last semester. How rediculous! I still hold my point on in being it being very possible to achieve. But yes I more or less did "misword" it. Seeing as I really don't want to do alot of thinking this morning. Is their an X Y formula you could set up that would help determine this? Im sure their is one, but I'm not about to spend time figuring it out.


Well lets do an example here.

Suppose your 170lbs @ 12% bf. Thats 20.4 lbs fat mass, and 149.6 lbs LBM

Suppose over the course of your bulk you can gain 12lbs lbm, and 1.5 lbs of fat mass.

So you now weigh 184 with 22.4 lbs of fat mass. 21.9/183.5= 11.9% bf



Many factors affect the likely hood of this happening tho.

Age, genetics, training experiance, training, specific diet protocols, and sadly the most influential....drugs.

With friends and myself included I have seen it done multiple times.

Agreed. And I'm glad you went through all this effort because I surely would not have.

The notion of the impossibility to gain muscle mass, while gradually decreasing bodyfat is nothing short of an exaggeration and misunderstandment. You can NOT gain muscle mass while decreasing body fat simultaneously, as in at the same time, as in the same night, etc. Over a small period of time, however, you can increase muscle mass while graudally decreasing body fat for the simple reason that you're gaining more muscle mass and burning more calories. I see it done all the time, usually inadvertently.

Grilled cheese is delicious. Cheese + bread + fire = bad? No.

It's usually the very calorie dense and unnutritious butter that makes grilled cheese, at resturaunts, for instance, so "unhealthy".

Try adding chicken to increase protein.

We Drowned
01-06-2010, 02:35 PM
Fat plays a significant role on hormonal balance for instance.
Also, gluconeogenesis from protein is MUCH more inefficient than from fat (that if you are consuming very little or no carbs).
The botton line is: Make sure to get your carbs and fats if you are on a standard diet.
-Carbs gives you the energy for your workout and daily activities (if you are not on a keto diet). It is the prefered source of you body for energy production.
-Fat plays a myriad of roles in your body: Hormonal balance, joint health, vitamin absorbtion and even tissue synthesis are some of them.
-Protein is primarily used for tissue synthesis. Of course, there is various chemicals reactions involved in this process on which protein participates as enzymes. In the absence of CHO and Fat, Amino acids provenient from protein can be used for energy production as well.

VulcanFlame, you have been repped for concisesness.

Just because you eat 1 dollar cheeseburgers, Sabas, does not make it optimal. Not all calories hold the same nutritional benefits, especially anabolic benefits.

I always love making grossly exagerrated examples because they're easy to understand. If you hit maintanance, and need an extra 500 calories to rebuild muscle tissue, acquiring those excess cals from chocolate mousse will be stored as fat. Or rather, your chances of rebuilding muscle from chocolate mousse is extremely low, as opposed to a nutritious and wholesome choice.

Calories with different macro,phyto, micro nutrients do different things. If the calories you eat, from a 1 dollar cheeseburger, for instance, are mainly a source of fats, you can only utilize so many of those fats for hypertrophy, among other things.

I've been on this board for a while, and in just the last year the focus of advice has shifted DRAMATICALLY from nutritious meals to an emphasis on overall calorie intake. The combination of the two is where it's at.

dimasso69
01-06-2010, 04:01 PM
Ingredients
Whey, Skim Milk, Milk Powder Concentrate, Water, Dried Corn Syrup, contains Less than 2% of Sodium Citrate, Lactic Acid, Sorbic Acid as a Preservative, Artificial Color, Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil (Trivial Source of Fat)Buttermilk Trivial Source of Fat)Carrageenan, Cellulose Gum, Artificial Flavor (Trivial Source of Fat)Natural Flavor (Trivial Source of Fat)Cheese Culture, Enzymes, Vitamin A Palmitate

Thats for fat free kraft singles mozzarella flavored


Just look over the ingredients. To each his own, you can eat fat free cheese if you'd like but for myself i'd rather skip the processed rubbery cheese and get some thats more natural and has fewer ingredients. Example:

Sargento Reduced Fat, Provolone Cheese
Ingredients
Pasteurized Reduced Fat Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes, Natural Smoke Flavor, Vitamin A Palmitate, Natamycin (a Natural Mold Inhibitor


As you can tell there are less fillers but as I said earlier everyone can eat what they want. This example of reduced fat cheese is 50 calories a slice and 3.5 grams of sugar and 0 grams of carbs.

I think fat free cheese tastes like poo lol im just asking u said that fat free cheese is bad because it's processed..what makes the processing bad? will these "fillers" have negative affects to one's health.

Ally_Cat
01-06-2010, 06:04 PM
"PROCESSED FOODS

The processing of foods changes the original food and the proportions of the nutrients within these foods. Many prepackaged and plastic-wrapped foods, quick fix, microwaveable, fast and boil-in-the-bag type foods have gone through a multitude of processes before they end up in the supermarket. These foods have little or no nutritional value.

The food industry allows more than three thousand food additives to be used in the processing of food. And just because many of these additives and chemicals used in the processing of our foods are deemed safe, it does not mean that they are. So chemicals, food additives, coloring agents, sweeteners, artificial flavors, dyes, nitrates, nitrites, preservatives to prevent spoilage, acids, maturing agents, bleaching agents, emulsifiers to maintain consistency are all finding their way into our bodies via these easy-to-prepare packaged foods.

These processes can cause allergic reactions and stress on the liver to process such chemicals, many of which are cancer forming. Children exposed to such processes can become hyperactive and display learning difficulties."

Just google about processed foods. I copy and pasted you can read up on your own. Its bad because the food is PROCESSED aka put through so many processes to change and distort the naturally healthy foods. I try to keep processed foods to a minimum but thats just me.

musicianman
01-06-2010, 07:07 PM
What's healthy should be considered in terms of your overall diet, not one particular food choice.

Exactly what I was about to say.

RealMenDeadLift
01-06-2010, 07:13 PM
Calories = weight

Macros determine what KIND of weight.

If you ate chocolate cake and only chocolate cake and only went over your maintenance by a little bit. You'll turn into a big blob of fat **** lol.

When making arguments it is important that you stay within the realm of reality, no one is gonna eat a whole diet of cake, you would be sorely lacking in protein and essential nutrients.