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kwdelre
12-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Would it have any chance of succeeding?

Or do you believe the window of opportunity for new religions to rise has been closed tightly?

What is the newest/most successful religion today? Mormon? What do you think?

Looking for a solid/rant-free discussion.

Edit: This thread is hypothetical!

Steak_n_Taters
12-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Bro new religions can work out great. Just look at scientology.

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Bro new religions can work out great. Just look at scientology.

Ok, that's a good example. Scientology makes a ton of money and has some big name supporters. But don't they claim to not be a religion? I could be wrong on that.

shadowwalker021
12-22-2009, 02:13 PM
all you have to do is tell people there is something inherently wrong with them, but it is not their immediate fault, and they have the ability to break free from their past self through their actions. then you just tell them what to do. make sure to include fear tactics like if you don't do a b or c then you will suffer or else there will be no incentive. also, it is important to tell them that any contradictions or doubts or anything that causes them to stray from the religion is the work of evil, and it is to be avoided - this will ensure that they will be trapped in the religion.

pro-tip: the indoctrination of children must be the foundation of your religion

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 02:18 PM
all you have to do is tell people there is something inherently wrong with them, but it is not their immediate fault, and they have the ability to break free from their past self through their actions. then you just tell them what to do. make sure to include fear tactics like if you don't do a b or c then you will suffer or else there will be no incentive. also, it is important to tell them that any contradictions or doubts or anything that causes them to stray from the religion is the work of evil, and it is to be avoided - this will ensure that they will be trapped in the religion.

pro-tip: the indoctrination of children must be the foundation of your religion

I'd say u got a good formula there!

b.spencer
12-22-2009, 02:20 PM
Ok, that's a good example. Scientology makes a ton of money and has some big name supporters. But don't they claim to not be a religion? I could be wrong on that.

The front page of the official scientology website says that "Scientology is a religion in its highest meaning . . ."

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 02:23 PM
The front page of the official scientology website says that "Scientology is a religion in its highest meaning . . ."

Ahhh good info

outlikeatrout
12-22-2009, 02:40 PM
mnNSe5XYp6E

Vorian
12-22-2009, 02:47 PM
I'm interested in joining/creating a fake religion too. Religion nowadays gets too much respect, it gets treated differently, so I have to join the fun and abuse the system.

"Oh mister professor you can't take my books away during an exam, it would be a great offense according to my religion... and you know that religious beliefs must be respected even if they are utterly idiotic..."

dmacfour
12-22-2009, 03:04 PM
I'm starting a fake religion too. Its holy books will be the texts written by J.R.R. Tolkien (Which were inspired by divine sources).

Steak_n_Taters
12-22-2009, 03:31 PM
I'm starting a fake religion too. Its holy books will be the texts written by J.R.R. Tolkien (Which were inspired by divine sources).

If you read the Silmarillon there really is a lot of I guess you could call it "alternate creation" stuff he created. Basically created a whole mythology behind the books.

The Silmarillon could be the "old testament" and LOTR the new testament. The Hobbit is basically LOTR bible for kids! lol

I would follow that religion.

And verily did Gandalf smite the balrog!

shadowwalker021
12-22-2009, 04:12 PM
jedi from starwars is a religion too. i'd say it's probably the most badass religion. start something like that with lightsabers and ****

Barry Bonds
12-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Do you want to be a savior?

Have you ever sinned? If so, you're disqualified.

If you pass that test, you'll need to die for all our sins.

I can sense fail already.

Bahai.Lifter
12-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Would it have any chance of succeeding?

Or do you believe the window of opportunity for new religions to rise has been closed tightly?

What is the newest/most successful religion today? Mormon? What do you think?

Looking for a solid/rant-free discussion.

Not for the long term at least. The thing that made religions such as Christianity and Islam, for example, successful in their respective eras was the fact that God was behind them. In other words, God will never allow the light of His Religion to be extinguished by men. Only He, alone, has the power to do that. Man-made religions could never achieve such success, because the spiritual basis which is the foundation of a Divine revelation is not there.

shadowwalker021
12-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Do you want to be a savior?

Have you ever sinned? If so, you're disqualified.

If you pass that test, you'll need to die for all our sins.

I can sense fail already.

he wants to create a religion.... not replicate christianity.

Forge3
12-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Would it have any chance of succeeding?

Or do you believe the window of opportunity for new religions to rise has been closed tightly?

What is the newest/most successful religion today? Mormon? What do you think?

Looking for a solid/rant-free discussion.

I am tempted to flush all your 'dogmas' down the toilet. You need number one to put the focus on giving people the chance to reflect...meditate and share their collective wisdom before even daring to speak for them all. If you are not humble you are the blind leading the blind...

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm interested in joining/creating a fake religion too. Religion nowadays gets too much respect, it gets treated differently, so I have to join the fun and abuse the system.

"Oh mister professor you can't take my books away during an exam, it would be a great offense according to my religion... and you know that religious beliefs must be respected even if they are utterly idiotic..."


I'm starting a fake religion too. Its holy books will be the texts written by J.R.R. Tolkien (Which were inspired by divine sources).


Do you want to be a savior?

Have you ever sinned? If so, you're disqualified.

If you pass that test, you'll need to die for all our sins.

I can sense fail already.


he wants to create a religion.... not replicate christianity.

I in no way want to start a religion. That was not the purpose of this thread. I was wanting to discuss my OP.


Not for the long term at least. The thing that made religions such as Christianity and Islam, for example, successful in their respective eras was the fact that God was behind them. In other words, God will never allow the light of His Religion to be extinguished by men. Only He, alone, has the power to do that. Man-made religions could never achieve such success, because the spiritual basis which is the foundation of a Divine revelation is not there.

I agree, in today's world, long-term will be hard to sustain.

I can respect your opinion on this. However, I have to ask you, what about all of the other thousands of religions that believe god is their leader as well?

What is your opinion of new religions such as Mormon and Scientology that were founded by man?

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 05:32 PM
I am tempted to flush all your 'dogmas' down the toilet. You need number one to put the focus on giving people the chance to reflect...meditate and share their collective wisdom before even daring to speak for them all. If you are not humble you are the blind leading the blind...

I agree about the blind leading the blind and that it has occurred in the past. But what dogmas are you referring to?

Forge3
12-22-2009, 05:37 PM
I agree about the blind leading the blind and that it has occurred in the past. But what dogmas are you referring to?

Oh lawd!!! Anything that frames our lives and learning in black and white before we have a chance to see for ourselves. We need the liberal environment to at least explore the higher truths and then respond even if on just a hunch then yeild to words in and of themselves. If we were created by a GOD we cannot be wrong in being curious and open...

Slavich
12-22-2009, 05:40 PM
all you have to do is tell people there is something inherently wrong with them, but it is not their immediate fault, and they have the ability to break free from their past self through their actions. then you just tell them what to do. make sure to include fear tactics like if you don't do a b or c then you will suffer or else there will be no incentive. also, it is important to tell them that any contradictions or doubts or anything that causes them to stray from the religion is the work of evil, and it is to be avoided - this will ensure that they will be trapped in the religion.

pro-tip: the indoctrination of children must be the foundation of your religion

Forgot to add to add a prophecy about the end of times where someone trys to get everyone else to follow them (a rise of a new false religion) and that he is the evil antichrist.

This is to ensure that people will continue to follow your religion when a new one arrises.

ami rite?

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 06:07 PM
If we were created by a GOD we cannot be wrong in being curious and open...

I completely agree with that. Did you think I wanted to start my own religion too?

Forge3
12-22-2009, 06:13 PM
I completely agree with that. Did you think I wanted to start my own religion too?

No I KNEW you didn't. You just posed an inquiry into the philosophy of others to start a convo and interject where you felt it was right (FACT!) :cool:

Bahai.Lifter
12-22-2009, 06:13 PM
I agree, in today's world, long-term will be hard to sustain.

Thanks bro. :)



I can respect your opinion on this. However, I have to ask you, what about all of the other thousands of religions that believe god is their leader as well?

The Baha'i Faith recognizes the Divine origin of past Revelations, such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

This is because Baha'is believe in one God and in "Progressive Revelation"; e.g.:

http://www.bahai.com/Bahaullah/revelation1.htm

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-4.html

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-10.html



What is your opinion of new religions such as Mormon and Scientology that were founded by man?

Mormons have very good things to say, the Baha'i Writings even mention positive things about Mormons such as their emphasis on chastity, and abstaining from alcohol and smoking -- which have a lot in common with Baha'i principles. In fact, Mormons who later on become Baha'is have this impression as well. However, the Baha'i Faith does not recognize its founder as a divine prophet (however, Mormons have become Baha'is and Baha'is welcome Mormons and anyone else to investigate the Faith).

To the best of my knowledge, no figure in Scientology makes a claim to Prophethood (please correct me if I'm wrong). I hope that answers your question.

Barry Bonds
12-22-2009, 06:39 PM
like we need more used car lots.

kwdelre
12-22-2009, 06:45 PM
Thanks bro. :)




The Baha'i Faith recognizes the Divine origin of past Revelations, such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

This is because Baha'is believe in one God and in "Progressive Revelation"; e.g.:

http://www.bahai.com/Bahaullah/revelation1.htm

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-4.html

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-10.html




Mormons have very good things to say, the Baha'i Writings even mention positive things about Mormons such as their emphasis on chastity, and abstaining from alcohol and smoking -- which have a lot in common with Baha'i principles. In fact, Mormons who later on become Baha'is have this impression as well. However, the Baha'i Faith does not recognize its founder as a divine prophet (however, Mormons have become Baha'is and Baha'is welcome Mormons and anyone else to investigate the Faith).

To the best of my knowledge, no figure in Scientology makes a claim to Prophethood (please correct me if I'm wrong). I hope that answers your question.

Yeah I don't know about the prophet-hood of scientology, but for conversation sake I was referring to Mr. Hubbard.


like we need more used car lots.

lol

_________________________


Do you guys think mass communication has hurt or helped the chance of new religions' success? I know these questions seem to come out of no where, but I do have a purpose for asking, I promise.

Vorian
12-23-2009, 02:45 AM
Not for the long term at least. The thing that made religions such as Christianity and Islam, for example, successful in their respective eras was the fact that God was behind them. In other words, God will never allow the light of His Religion to be extinguished by men. Only He, alone, has the power to do that. Man-made religions could never achieve such success, because the spiritual basis which is the foundation of a Divine revelation is not there.

Or maybe the "you convert or you die" mentality during the Dark Ages had something to do with it too. You are delusional.

Heavy_Beats
12-23-2009, 04:03 AM
To be a good cult leader you need to have great interpersonal skills for brainwashing your followers, it is hard work and a life long pursuit but there are many fringe benefits to be taken advantage of for example in one cult a man was told by god that he had to have sex with some guys wife, the husband was such a gullible weak pussy he let the cult leader have his wife. :D

Be careful if you are committing illegal activities with your mind slaves because as a small marginalized cult you will not have the legal protection that more established cults benefit from e.g. Catholicism. Furthermore you and your followers are likely to face persecution for taking advantage of people and/or being insane.

To help protect your cult from the public eye use the money of your followers to build a compound church like some Mormon groups do. Although do not think that your fortress of polygamy is impregnable as you are likely to face raids from the authorities if any cult traitors snitch to the cops about your "bible study" sessions. It is wise to make a plan of action in the event of a raid.

Speaking of cult traitors, be careful of these because murdering them in this day and age is like gasoline on the flames of notoriety surrounding your church e.g. Scientology. If at all possible keep your followers where their movements can be controlled like on a plantation, keep them busy and do not neglect their intensive "religious studies". If you keep them in the compound out of the public eye no one will come looking for them when you "teach them a lesson" about betraying the one true path.

If your religion is based on an armageddon scenario do not worry about when time runs out because religious people are so gullible you can just make up some new story like declaring "it the start of a new age..."

Summing up you need great interpersonal skills for brainwashing and being a cult leader is and work and a life long pursuit but it has many fringe benefits. Be careful about illegal activities you might "need" to commit in the name of your god. Beware of persecution from outsiders, build a compound church and form a plan of action in the event of a raid. Do not worry if armageddon does not actually occurring when you say it will, religious people are that gullible. Finally good luck with your religion.


I'm starting a fake religion too. Its holy books will be the texts written by J.R.R. Tolkien (Which were inspired by divine sources).

What is false about J.R.R. Tolkien?

Heavy_Beats
12-23-2009, 04:05 AM
Not for the long term at least. The thing that made religions such as Christianity and Islam, for example, successful in their respective eras was the fact that God was behind them. In other words, God will never allow the light of His Religion to be extinguished by men. Only He, alone, has the power to do that. Man-made religions could never achieve such success, because the spiritual basis which is the foundation of a Divine revelation is not there.

I think it was because empires like the roman empire used christianity as a state religion, when you spread the cult that far it sticks around. Like the proverb goes "throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick". Just because a lot of people believe the some nonsense does not change that it is nonsense.


Or maybe the "you convert or you die" mentality during the Dark Ages had something to do with it too. You are delusional.

Yeah I think they called it "crusade".

acidking
12-23-2009, 04:06 AM
Would it have any chance of succeeding?

Or do you believe the window of opportunity for new religions to rise has been closed tightly?

What is the newest/most successful religion today? Mormon? What do you think?

Looking for a solid/rant-free discussion.

Edit: This thread is hypothetical!

where do i sign up?

kwdelre
12-23-2009, 10:16 AM
To be a good cult leader you need to have great interpersonal skills for brainwashing your followers, it is hard work and a life long pursuit but there are many fringe benefits to be taken advantage of for example in one cult a man was told by god that he had to have sex with some guys wife, the husband was such a gullible weak pussy he let the cult leader have his wife. :D

Be careful if you are committing illegal activities with your mind slaves because as a small marginalized cult you will not have the legal protection that more established cults benefit from e.g. Catholicism. Furthermore you and your followers are likely to face persecution for taking advantage of people and/or being insane.

To help protect your cult from the public eye use the money of your followers to build a compound church like some Mormon groups do. Although do not think that your fortress of polygamy is impregnable as you are likely to face raids from the authorities if any cult traitors snitch to the cops about your "bible study" sessions. It is wise to make a plan of action in the event of a raid.

Speaking of cult traitors, be careful of these because murdering them in this day and age is like gasoline on the flames of notoriety surrounding your church e.g. Scientology. If at all possible keep your followers where their movements can be controlled like on a plantation, keep them busy and do not neglect their intensive "religious studies". If you keep them in the compound out of the public eye no one will come looking for them when you "teach them a lesson" about betraying the one true path.

If your religion is based on an armageddon scenario do not worry about when time runs out because religious people are so gullible you can just make up some new story like declaring "it the start of a new age..."

Summing up you need great interpersonal skills for brainwashing and being a cult leader is and work and a life long pursuit but it has many fringe benefits. Be careful about illegal activities you might "need" to commit in the name of your god. Beware of persecution from outsiders, build a compound church and form a plan of action in the event of a raid. Do not worry if armageddon does not actually occurring when you say it will, religious people are that gullible. Finally good luck with your religion.



What is false about J.R.R. Tolkien?

This brings up another good question.


What do you all think is the line in which a cult and religion are seperated? Membership? Money? Political influence?

Heavy_Beats
12-23-2009, 02:16 PM
This brings up another good question.


What do you all think is the line in which a cult and religion are seperated? Membership? Money? Political influence?

You could use cult and religion interchangeably although "cult" has negative connotations now a days.

Cult is usually used to describe small religious groups although it is impossible to draw an objective line between large and small religious groups and they all started as small groups so this definition is useless.

All religious groups (that I am aware of) want members to "donate", give a portion of income etc.

Some large religious groups like christians/catholics/muslims try to influence politics although smaller religious groups may also try to influence politics like westboro baptist church or ku klux klan. Their motives are often fueled by unfounded beliefs, hate or both.

As far as I am aware you can sign up to any religious group, some are harder to escape then others though for example scientologists are pretty tough on traitors and so are morons. Usually what they will do is ostracize the traitor by keeping the rest of the family in metaphorical chains, this is common in all religions (as far as I am aware). Although along time ago and in some places in the world today people are killed because they want to leave the religious group e.g. Spanish inquisition.

Also both large and small religious groups often have apocalypse scenarios some I am aware of are the johovas witnesses and the christains.

Some good red flags for a cult are "god", "revolutionary suicide", "sacrifice", "righteous", "prophet", "faith", "evil" and when someone uses fallacies and/or has a lack of empirical evidence.


cult

? noun 1 a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object. 2 a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members. 3 something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society.

? DERIVATIVES cultish adjective cultist noun.

? ORIGIN Latin cultus ?worship?.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/cult?view=uk


religion

? noun 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

? ORIGIN originally in the sense "life under monastic vows": from Latin religio ?obligation, reverence?.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/orexxligion?view=uk

Weightaholic
12-23-2009, 02:44 PM
Best to start it as an evolution of an earlier religion.

Make sure you proclaim yourself to be the final prophet. That way people can't claim different things in your lifetime while you're making shabby grabs for the hearts and minds....

kwdelre
12-23-2009, 03:55 PM
Best to start it as an evolution of an earlier religion.

Make sure you proclaim yourself to be the final prophet. That way people can't claim different things in your lifetime while you're making shabby grabs for the hearts and minds....

I agree that branching off of another religion is probably a more successful way to go.


Once again fellas I want to reiterate that I am NOT thinking of starting a religion. I am merely doing some "common people's opinions" research. That is why I ask for believers and non-believers to post their opinions. I am a novelist by profession, but am starting to gather information on a non-fictional piece that is in the works. Thanks for your inputs, but I need MORE. :)

b.spencer
12-23-2009, 04:37 PM
I agree that branching off of another religion is probably a more successful way to go.


Once again fellas I want to reiterate that I am NOT thinking of starting a religion. I am merely doing some "common people's opinions" research. That is why I ask for believers and non-believers to post their opinions. I am a novelist by profession, but am starting to gather information on a non-fictional piece that is in the works. Thanks for your inputs, but I need MORE. :)

I think the key to the founding any successful "cult" or religious order is actually best summed by another fictional character -- Spock. (LOL) Consider the following from Star Trek - The Motion Picture -


Each of us... at some time in our lives, turns to someone - a father, a brother, a God... and asks...”Why am I here? What was I meant to be?"

Its asking questions. "Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?"

What it requires of its god, doctor, is the answer to its question, "Is there nothing more"?

No matter the era in which a religion begins and grows, it starts out here with these questions. Because answering these questions is key to the human condition. The other key to development is to link these questions with current events, items, people that engage curiosity at the moment. Something close to them, no matter how far out it appears to outsiders.

How would this work? Scientology ties into the 1950's fascination with UFO's and the acceptance of behavioral psychological theories into everyday life. Mormonism with the manifest destiny of Anglo-Americans and those whites curiosity with Native Americans. Lutheranism with the misconduct of the Catholic Church in the Renaissance age. You can go on and on, even into totally fictional religions such as "Vulcan mysticism" and the Bene Gesserit of Dune.

You tie the questions that every human has ever dreamed of and link it to current events to show that this generation is "special." So, what would you tap into in this generation? There are many possibilities, from right wing and left wing politics, to technology . . . whatever will catch people's imagination. When you have them curious, then you can show them that you are the "political prophet" or the "technology prophet" or whatever. How much of world history has been building up to you . . . then you have them.

kwdelre
12-24-2009, 10:32 AM
I think the key to the founding any successful "cult" or religious order is actually best summed by another fictional character -- Spock. (LOL) Consider the following from Star Trek - The Motion Picture -



No matter the era in which a religion begins and grows, it starts out here with these questions. Because answering these questions is key to the human condition. The other key to development is to link these questions with current events, items, people that engage curiosity at the moment. Something close to them, no matter how far out it appears to outsiders.

How would this work? Scientology ties into the 1950's fascination with UFO's and the acceptance of behavioral psychological theories into everyday life. Mormonism with the manifest destiny of Anglo-Americans and those whites curiosity with Native Americans. Lutheranism with the misconduct of the Catholic Church in the Renaissance age. You can go on and on, even into totally fictional religions such as "Vulcan mysticism" and the Bene Gesserit of Dune.

You tie the questions that every human has ever dreamed of and link it to current events to show that this generation is "special." So, what would you tap into in this generation? There are many possibilities, from right wing and left wing politics, to technology . . . whatever will catch people's imagination. When you have them curious, then you can show them that you are the "political prophet" or the "technology prophet" or whatever. How much of world history has been building up to you . . . then you have them.

Great feedback, thanks man. I think you hit something there with the technology comment. With the great advances in technology over the last 30 years could possibly give some basis to a new religion/cult. Could be inertesting. Maybe I will create a fictional religion founded through technology within my non-fictional work.

b.spencer
12-24-2009, 12:32 PM
Great feedback, thanks man. I think you hit something there with the technology comment. With the great advances in technology over the last 30 years could possibly give some basis to a new religion/cult. Could be inertesting. Maybe I will create a fictional religion founded through technology within my non-fictional work.

Since you find the technology angle interesting, you may find the concepts associated with transhumanism a basis of building a doctrinal structure.

Vorian
12-24-2009, 01:40 PM
In before in 2109 - when OP's religion is the main religion on Earth with over 10 billion followers - some scientists discover this thread and try to use it against OP's religion to prove that it was made up by someone, but they get stoned by the believers.

kwdelre
12-24-2009, 02:23 PM
Since you find the technology angle interesting, you may find the concepts associated with transhumanism a basis of building a doctrinal structure.

I'll look that up.


In before in 2109 - when OP's religion is the main religion on Earth with over 10 billion followers - some scientists discover this thread and try to use it against OP's religion to prove that it was made up by someone, but they get stoned by the believers.

Lol.....

realistromeo
12-24-2009, 09:54 PM
Hmmm to start your own religion..

you need a +10 in charisma

Just have a good imagination and use control tactics on your worshipers.
There are many "gurus,teachers,prophets,saints, and cultheads.... yes there is still a big window of opportunity to create a religion.


Play to peoples fears, hopes, dreams,aspirations, or give them things they never expirienced.

kwdelre
12-24-2009, 11:08 PM
Hmmm to start your own religion..

you need a +10 in charisma

Just have a good imagination and use control tactics on your worshipers.
There are many "gurus,teachers,prophets,saints, and cultheads.... yes there is still a big window of opportunity to create a religion.


Play to peoples fears, hopes, dreams,aspirations, or give them things they never expirienced.

Wouldn't a person starting a religion have to play on pretty much the same fears and dreams as other religions? I don't see much variety in that regard.