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Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 03:28 PM
In mid-June, after reading several posts and tracking some individual's logs (e.g. wave_length), I decided I would try out their approach to dieting on myself and see how it would work. As you may be familiar, the approach is simple. As long as one consumes sufficient protein per day and eats the correct amount of calories, the amount of fat or carbs they intake is irrelevant, as are the sources they are obtained from.

For a little background on myself, this past January I weighed a husky 165-170 pounds, and decided to try and cut up for spring break (about 3 months later). In that time span, I lost around 15 pounds, and from early-April through mid-June I probably lost another 5-10 pounds (post spring break cheat extravaganza), putting me anywhere between 145-150. Surprisingly, I actually gained strength and muscle, while losing weight during this time (at least it seemed that way). For my genetics, I'm a mesomorph, but have no problem putting on fat.

To begin this experiment, on June 20, I decided I wanted to try and maintain my bodyfat for the month and while hopefully gaining some lean muscle. To set me straight, I calculated what my BMR should be (using the Total Metabolism Forecaster Excel spreadsheet from the sticky). It computed that my maintenance was approximately 2,500 calories per day, if I was doing cardio 4 times per week (three times low intensity, once HIIT) and lifting weights four times per week.

With this, I set my dietary guidelines as follows:

- Roughly 2,500 calories per day
- A minimum of 180 grams of protein per day
- Fat could be anywhere from 70-105 grams per day
- Carbs could range from 190-295 grams per day

I also count macros and calories from all sources (protein from ice cream, carbs from peanut butter, fat from oatmeal, etc.).

I weighed myself on the morning of June 20 at 145.5 pounds and probably around 11-12% bodyfat. In the next month, I followed these guidelines and pretty much always stuck to my workout schedule. I had one cheat day on the fourth of July and a whole four days in a row of cheating when I went to go on a college get-together weekend, both of which involved lots of beer and endless junk food. I also ate carbs right before bedtime.

For the end results, two days ago, I weighed myself at 147 pounds, and this morning at 144.5 pounds (water retention will do that). I am just as lean, if not leaner, than I was when I started the experiment, and my strength and muscle mass have both gone up.

I usually ate 5-6 times per day and drank a reasonable amount of water, but also drank a lot of Diet A&W Root beer and Diet Snapple. Besides whey, I used no supplements other than Xtend during a few leg days.As for the foods I ate, the majority of them were healthy meals (grilled chicken, veggies, oatmeal, whey, etc.), as they helped me achieve my protein requirements. But I also budgeted A LOT of ?junk? into my diet, of which, seemed to have no negative effect on anything. Here is a sample of items I regularly budgeted into my diet:

-Ben & Jerry?s Ice Cream (over 13 pints worth ? review to come)
-Cold Stone
-Hot Dogs (with bun)
-Shrimp Fried Rice
-Belgian Waffle
-M&M?s, Twix Bars (frozen), and Ghiradelli White Chocolate
-Steak
-Quarter Pounder Cheeseburgers
-Tostitos and Salsa
-Nachos
-Tim Horton?s Donuts
-Dunkin Donuts Bagels and Sandwich

Now, what I am writing here is not rocket science for many of you who know this already about dieting. Nevertheless, I wanted to share my experience with everyone here, regardless of if the results turned out good or bad. This is important because I used to think it was absolutely necessary to solely eat "clean" foods throughout the week, and then have some junk on your weekend cheat meal. Now, though, I realize that approach was just nonsense for me. This way of dieting allows one to not be so strict, enjoy food with friends and family now and then (keeping portion in mind), while achieving your goals at the same time.

There is always the question of, ?If I didn?t budget all these unhealthy foods into my diet, and replaced them with healthy sources, would I be that much further in my training and my physique that much better?? I suppose we will never know. Nonetheless, this experiment was created to either demonstrate or not demonstrate that more lax dieting can still yield solid results ? of which, it did.

CaliforniaKing
07-25-2009, 04:07 PM
Awesome post man! I think many people, especially newbies tend to get into the mind set that they must eat "clean" foods such as chicken, oat, eggs, etc in order to get results, but in general, it's not true. It's good to eat healthy to be healthy, but for bodybuilding, they are not essential. Then again, this is an ongoing debate (especially in this forum) where people will completely disagree! :)

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 04:13 PM
Awesome post man! I think many people, especially newbies tend to get into the mind set that they must eat "clean" foods such as chicken, oat, eggs, etc in order to get results, but in general, it's not true. It's good to eat healthy to be healthy, but for bodybuilding, they are not essential. Then again, this is an ongoing debate (especially in this forum) where people will completely disagree! :)
Yep. There's definitely something to be said about actually being "healthy" and I find that eating clean foods often keep me motivated and in good spirits about reaching my goals, in addition to all the other benefits.

I would say I eat clean foods probably 80% of the time. The other 20% is whatever I'm in the mood for.

beeeyandizzle
07-25-2009, 04:47 PM
Great experiment. Thanks for sharing. I've been eating clean for a long time and was considering swapping a dinner meal for maybe a chipotle burrito or a loaded roast beef subway footlong once a week just because I love both of em. Both can fit in my macros nicely, but I wasn't sure if it would hurt me in the long run. But since my goal right now is maintenance this post gives great info.

andybz
07-25-2009, 04:50 PM
I would say I eat clean foods probably 80% of the time. The other 20% is whatever I'm in the mood for.


Good post man!
I do the, "Eat clean all week and cheat on the weekends" type thing.
I would try to incorporate them into my normal diet, but it's hard, because whenever I touch something like a pint of B&J's, I can't help but eat the whole damn thing. I have no self control. Ha!

Good to see you're making results while enjoying yourself!

Nefariousx1
07-25-2009, 05:55 PM
I am definitely going to watch this....wave is the man

tabasco.sauce
07-25-2009, 06:00 PM
I had one cheat day on the fourth of July and a whole four days in a row of cheating when I went to go on a college get-together weekend, both of which involved lots of beer and endless junk food. I also ate carbs right before bedtime..

did you still stay within roughly 2500 cals on these days?

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 06:11 PM
did you still stay within roughly 2500 cals on these days?
Nope. The fourth of July, I tried figuring out afterwards just for the heck of it and it came out like this:

~4500 calories, 160g fat, 380g carbs, 155g protein

The diet on that day was:

Keto Protein Pancake w/ sugar free syrup
Two quarter pound burgers with cheddar
One pint of S'Mores Ben & Jerry's
Approx 1.5 cups pasta
Tostitos and Salsa
10 Coors Lights
1 Margarita (approx 7 oz)

The other four day cheat extravaganza includes the foods outlined at the following link. I did eat some fruits, chicken, and lean steak during this time, though.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=356994181&highlight=duncan#post356994181

tabasco.sauce
07-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Nope. The fourth of July, I tried figuring out afterwards just for the heck of it and it came out like this:

~4500 calories, 160g fat, 380g carbs, 155g protein

The diet on that day was:

Keto Protein Pancake w/ sugar free syrup
Two quarter pound burgers with cheddar
One pint of S'Mores Ben & Jerry's
Approx 1.5 cups pasta
Tostitos and Salsa
10 Coors Lights
1 Margarita (approx 7 oz)

The other four day cheat extravaganza includes the foods outlined at the following link. I did eat some fruits, chicken, and lean steak during this time, though.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=356994181&highlight=duncan#post356994181

well i understand that while getting you protein in, and eating roughly 2500 calories you you were able to incorporate cheats into your diet, and still not gain fat tru.. calories-in-calories out..

I find it kind of hard to believe that one can eat 2k above maintenence for 4 days and not gain a pound of fat, however noticing that you had 10 beers, and the theory of NEAT could have something to do with that..

overall, the outcome of your experiment is not shockeing, but it does a good job of showing people that consistency in ones diet, and eating within ones caloric limit with various cheats does not cause excessive fat gains..

Personally, I find that unless I GROSSLY overeat for a few days, or consistently eat over maintenance past a few hundred cals, I will gain fat..

dimasso69
07-25-2009, 06:25 PM
I want in on this one! Good luck with this BignBuff! And when's that ben and jerry's review coming in??

I wanna try this...but it just doesn't work for me i wouldn't have the energy throughout the day or could eat almost 3.5kcals in one sitting which is what i do eat during soccer season...(3,400kcals to maintain)

Im gonna stay by and see how this one goes for ya..what i do like about this also for me is we have very similiar stats.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 06:33 PM
well i understand that while getting you protein in, and eating roughly 2500 calories you you were able to incorporate cheats into your diet, and still not gain fat tru.. calories-in-calories out..

I find it kind of hard to believe that one can eat 2k above maintenence for 4 days and not gain a pound of fat, however noticing that you had 10 beers, and the theory of NEAT could have something to do with that..

overall, the outcome of your experiment is not shockeing, but it does a good job of showing people that consistency in ones diet, and eating within ones caloric limit with various cheats does not cause excessive fat gains..

Personally, I find that unless I GROSSLY overeat for a few days, or consistently eat over maintenance past a few hundred cals, I will gain fat..
This is true. Some of the lack of fat/weight gain could have had to do with:

1) Metabolism being shocked by so many calories those couple of times, resulting in it speeding up. (this may be broscience)

2) During that four day cheat, I was more active than usual in my daily activities. We were at the beach, so I played football, wiffleball, went swimming, went tubing, walked around a ton, etc. Also went to a waterpark one day, so I was walking around the whole day, going up stairs for slides, etc. This all may have helped me burn some of those extra calories. Similarly, during the day on the fourth of July I was throwing the frisbee throughout the day, played some basketball, and walked to the person's house and home (about 20 minutes both ways).

3) I should have mentioned this in the original post, but for a couple days following those cheats I ate only 2000-2200 calories (300-500 under maintenance), to try and "make up". Additionally, I never ate above 2,550 calories on any day - besides cheats.

4) Possibly I calculated my maintenance incorrectly and was at a slight deficit at 2,500 calories. Thus, the cheat days would even it out in the long run.

Good points for discussion, though, tabasco.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 06:36 PM
And when's that ben and jerry's review coming in??
Still have got about 10 more flavors to try, so may be a while. I never have more than 1 pint a day.

tabasco.sauce
07-25-2009, 06:40 PM
This is true. Some of the lack of fat/weight gain could have had to do with:

1) Metabolism being shocked by so many calories those couple of times, resulting in it speeding up. (this may be broscience)

2) During that four day cheat, I was more active than usual in my daily activities. We were at the beach, so I played football, wiffleball, went swimming, went tubing, walked around a ton, etc. Also went to a waterpark one day, so I was walking around the whole day, going up stairs for slides, etc. This all may have helped me burn some of those extra calories. Similarly, during the day on the fourth of July I was throwing the frisbee throughout the day, played some basketball, and walked to the person's house and home (about 20 minutes both ways).

3) I should have mentioned this in the original post, but for a couple days following those cheats I ate only 2000-2200 calories (300-500 under maintenance), to try and "make up". Additionally, I never ate above 2,550 calories on any day - besides cheats.

4) Possibly I calculated my maintenance incorrectly and was at a slight deficit at 2,500 calories. Thus, the cheat days would even it out in the long run.

Good points for discussion, though, tabasco.

I was actually thinking to mention the possibility of points 2) and 4) but didn't want to 'reach' ... most people don't want to eat this way because like dimasso69 mentioned, they can't risk ups and down's in energy due to sports or important mental activity and also because they'll never kno whether eating 'clean' would have caused better gainz

great post.. REPS!

dimasso69
07-25-2009, 06:41 PM
Still have got about 10 more flavors to try, so may be a while. I never have more than 1 pint a day.

Ah alright, will be waiting for it:D

But will you be posting up your meals as wave had? I didn't follow his thread but i notice in MEN his meals look amazing and huge!

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Ah alright, will be waiting for it:D

But will you be posting up your meals as wave had? I didn't follow his thread but i notice in MEN his meals look amazing and huge!
I sometimes post my meals in M.E.N. (when they are more exciting than usual).

The Solution
07-25-2009, 06:55 PM
The proof is in the pudding ladies and gents!

soundcheck129
07-25-2009, 07:14 PM
Props on the weight loss - I'm sure people dieting on salad and fish are drooling. I like your method a bit more than Wavelength's (no offense) because you're not just limiting yourself to one or two massive meals per day - spreading it out seems more comfortable, albeit less impressive picture-wise.

It's kind of funny that this is considered a revolutionary approach...I guess when one spends too much time in the Nutrition forum it's easy to forget that a lot of people have success not micro-managing macros.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:22 PM
Could you list some of those large 1 meal's you had for 2500 kcals in a day? and was it just in one sitting or spread throughout a couple of hours?

Explain more if possible

brb sipping on whey and eating ben n jerries LMFAO!
Hmmmm. I usually had 1 large meal per day and it was eaten all at once, which tended to be a pint of B&J . During my cut this past spring, I was regularly eating 1700-2000 calories and got used to not eating so much, so eating 2500 still seems like a "treat" and I can go 3-4 hours without eating fine, even if my prior meal was B&J or something small like a 1/2 cup of oatmeal with whey. Looking back at my log on MS Excel, some other large(r) meals included:

Chicken Parmesan dinner (approx 1190 calories)

Large of Shrimp Fried Rice (approx 950-1000 calories)

Meal at Red Lobster (approx 1165 calories)

8 oz steak and tater tots (approx 750 calories)

Nachos (approx 740 calories)

These meals actually weren't that difficult to budget in because they often included a lot of protein, unlike a pint of B&J which has similar calories but yields only 12-16g protein.

Surprisingly, I rarely drank straight protein shakes mixed with water during this time. Rather, I would mix up my whey with egg beaters, splenda, baking powder, a little cinammon, and some water for high protein, low carb, low fat pancakes. Whey was also mixed with oatmeal, fat free yogurt, and to make Scivation sludge/brownies.

Tyson's Grilled Chicken strips (some boneless, skinless and some fajita style) made up a reasonable amount of my diet, as well.

RapidFiyah
07-25-2009, 07:23 PM
Props on the weight loss - I'm sure people dieting on salad and fish are drooling. I like your method a bit more than Wavelength's (no offense) because you're not just limiting yourself to one or two massive meals per day - spreading it out seems more comfortable, albeit less impressive picture-wise.

It's kind of funny that this is considered a revolutionary approach...I guess when one spends too much time in the Nutrition forum it's easy to forget that a lot of people have success not micro-managing macros.Really?

I think the two massive meals is one of the best parts about Wavelengths diet, two massive meals where you can basically have anything you want.

Nefariousx1
07-25-2009, 07:27 PM
bignbuff, where do you lift?

soundcheck129
07-25-2009, 07:29 PM
Really?

I think the two massive meals is one of the best parts about Wavelengths diet, two massive meals where you can basically have anything you want.

I guess I'm just not a binge guy.

It seems more convenient to me to be able to eat when I want rather than save all my calories for one gorge-fest.

What if you're out with friends - "oh hey, nothing for me even though my stomach is rumbling, I've gotta save all 2500 cals for later." Seems impractical. But to each his own.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:40 PM
Since some people are asking, I'll post my diet today as a sample. Today actually involved quite a bit of whey, which is unusual. Calories and macro counts are approximate for these purposes, but very close to what they actually were:

Meal 1 - Protein Pancakes w/ sugar free syrup (300kcal, 0g fat, 33g carb, 40g protein)

Workout - Push Day

Meal 2 - 1.5 scoops ATW Vanilla Whey, 1/2 cup blueberries (200 kcal, 0g fat, 11g carb, 38g protein)

Meal 3 - 1 Pint of Ben & Jerry's Mint Chocolate Cookie (1000 kcal, 56g fat, 104g carb, 16g protein)

Meal 4 - Saladworks - pasta, double serving of baby shrimp, provolone cheese, tomatoes, onions (431 kcal, 8g fat, 65g carb, 28g protein)

Meal 5 - Scivation Protein Brownie and 3 oz Tyson Fajita Strips (300kcal, 10g fat, 6g carb, 48g protein)

Meal 6 - 1/2 packet of FF, SF Vanilla Pudding w/ 1 cup milk and 3/4 cup Cookie Crisp and 1 TBSP of White Chocolate Chips mixed in (300kcal, 5g fat, 55g carb, 10g protein)

TOTAL - 2520 calories, 80g fat, 275g carb, 180g protein

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:40 PM
bignbuff, where do you lift?
Gym in my town.

Nefariousx1
07-25-2009, 07:42 PM
Gym in my town.

O no doubt I just asked kuz your from ny...sorry to hijaack thread

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:45 PM
I guess I'm just not a binge guy.

It seems more convenient to me to be able to eat when I want rather than save all my calories for one gorge-fest.

What if you're out with friends - "oh hey, nothing for me even though my stomach is rumbling, I've gotta save all 2500 cals for later." Seems impractical. But to each his own.
This is more of the way I was thinking. It's nice to be able to have a couple slices of pizza and a beer or two if you're at a party and eat dinner when the family does at night.

Not that I have anything against the way wave_length diets, it's just impractical for me.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:46 PM
O no doubt I just asked kuz your from ny...sorry to hijaack thread
Ah ok. :D

Not living there now actually (start work in the fall), so living at home in NJ currently.

EDIT - Will have to figure out what I want to do for a gym when I move into the city. My building actually has a fitness center in it, which is complimentary, but kind of crappy. Not sure if I want to cough up crazy city gym fees, although having a solid gym is nice.

beeeyandizzle
07-25-2009, 07:53 PM
Since some people are asking, I'll post my diet today as a sample. Today actually involved quite a bit of whey, which is unusual. Calories and macro counts are approximate for these purposes, but very close to what they actually were:

Meal 1 - Protein Pancakes w/ sugar free syrup (300kcal, 0g fat, 33g carb, 40g protein)

Workout - Push Day

Meal 2 - 1.5 scoops ATW Vanilla Whey, 1/2 cup blueberries (200 kcal, 0g fat, 11g carb, 38g protein)

Meal 3 - 1 Pint of Ben & Jerry's Mint Chocolate Cookie (1000 kcal, 56g fat, 104g carb, 16g protein)

Meal 4 - Saladworks - pasta, double serving of baby shrimp, provolone cheese, tomatoes, onions (431 kcal, 8g fat, 65g carb, 28g protein)

Meal 5 - Scivation Protein Brownie and 3 oz Tyson Fajita Strips (300kcal, 10g fat, 6g carb, 48g protein)

Meal 6 - 1/2 packet of FF, SF Vanilla Pudding w/ 1 cup milk and 3/4 cup Cookie Crisp and 1 TBSP of White Chocolate Chips mixed in (300kcal, 5g fat, 55g carb, 10g protein)

TOTAL - 2520 calories, 80g fat, 275g carb, 180g protein

Just curious, how often do you have a pint of B&J in your daily diet?

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:53 PM
This is true. Some of the lack of fat/weight gain could have had to do with:

1) Metabolism being shocked by so many calories those couple of times, resulting in it speeding up. (this may be broscience)

2) During that four day cheat, I was more active than usual in my daily activities. We were at the beach, so I played football, wiffleball, went swimming, went tubing, walked around a ton, etc. Also went to a waterpark one day, so I was walking around the whole day, going up stairs for slides, etc. This all may have helped me burn some of those extra calories. Similarly, during the day on the fourth of July I was throwing the frisbee throughout the day, played some basketball, and walked to the person's house and home (about 20 minutes both ways).

3) I should have mentioned this in the original post, but for a couple days following those cheats I ate only 2000-2200 calories (300-500 under maintenance), to try and "make up". Additionally, I never ate above 2,550 calories on any day - besides cheats.

4) Possibly I calculated my maintenance incorrectly and was at a slight deficit at 2,500 calories. Thus, the cheat days would even it out in the long run.

Good points for discussion, though, tabasco.
Kind of weird to quote myself, but wanted to add a fifth point:

5) Whenever I would eat something that I was unsure of the exact nutritional value (e.g shrimp fried rice from Chinese restaurant), I would always calculate calories as "worst case scenario" meaning I would assume they used a lot of butter, oil, gave me extra portion, etc. In turn, I may not have been eating as many kcal as I thought on a few of these meals.

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 07:56 PM
Just curious, how often do you have a pint of B&J in your daily diet?
4-5 times per week, lately. It is kind of a pain in the ass to budget it in though, so this will not be a long-term thing. Once I finish all the flavors I want, I'll start eating lighter ice creams and frozen yogurt instead of super premium B&J, regularly. This will allow me to eat and create tastier meals throughout the day, while make meeting protein requirements easier. :)

soundcheck129
07-25-2009, 07:57 PM
Kind of weird to quote myself, but wanted to add a fifth point:

5) Whenever I would eat something that I was unsure of the exact nutritional value (e.g shrimp fried rice from Chinese restaurant), I would always calculate calories as "worst case scenario" meaning I would assume they used a lot of butter, oil, gave me extra portion, etc. In turn, I may not have been eating as many kcal as I thought on a few of these meals.

Good point. However, once you move into the city you'll realize that Mamoun's actually has 0 calories. And O/T, but have you been to the Peanut Butter & Co store on Sullivan St?

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Good point. However, once you move into the city you'll realize that Mamoun's actually has 0 calories. And O/T, but have you been to the Peanut Butter & Co store on Sullivan St?
Are you referring to here?

http://www.mamounsfalafel.com/

I am bad at figuring out e-sarcasm, so not sure if you're serious or not about the zero calories, but I think not.

Never been to the Peanut Butter & Co store, and actually never had this brand. Everyone seems to love it, though, so many have to give it a try and check it out. :cool:

soundcheck129
07-25-2009, 08:19 PM
That's the place - their falafel sandwiches are so good you won't care about the diet damage :p

The PB&Co store is a little underwhelming - it's like a sit-down cafe but with all their PBs, fluff, etc. I just thought it was cool because it's the only place I've managed to find Mighty Maple.

RapidFiyah
07-25-2009, 08:23 PM
You've inspired me to also finish the pint of every BnJ flavor that sounds good to me before this summer ends!

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 08:47 PM
You've inspired me to also finish the pint of every BnJ flavor that sounds good to me before this summer ends!
LOL. Getting a trend going.

If the Nutrition section develops diabetes, I am not to blame.

dimasso69
07-25-2009, 08:49 PM
LOL. Getting a trend going.

If the Nutrition section develops diabetes, I am not to blame.

Im telling you man gotta start the Ben&Jerry's crew :D lol Going for that cinnamon buns pint tomorrow:D

Bignbuff
07-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Im telling you man gotta start the Ben&Jerry's crew :D lol Going for that cinnamon buns pint tomorrow:D
Yeahhh boy. It remains my favorite flavor.

backherms
07-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Your the man. I would rep you, but it wouldn't do anything. lol

andybz
07-25-2009, 10:07 PM
Yeahhh boy. It remains my favorite flavor.

It's one of my favorite as well!
Just hit up a pint of phish food, pretty good.
I have a few more flavors i want to try before this summer ends as well. Ha!

backherms
07-25-2009, 10:16 PM
It's one of my favorite as well!
Just hit up a pint of phish food, pretty good.
I have a few more flavors i want to try before this summer ends as well. Ha!

I still need to try Phish Food.

getgot211
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
don't do it bro, think of your rotting insides!!!!!

andybz
07-25-2009, 11:45 PM
So i still have 4 flavors of B&J's in my freezer, and I think over the course of the next few days I'm going to incorporate a pint into my diet. I'll still be in a deficit, so it shouldn't hurt me at all. Plus, it's summer baby, thanks for the idea! :D

wave_length
07-26-2009, 12:49 AM
Haha, awesome thread, I'm a tad biased though. :D

And eating 5 times a day is perfectly fine, my point was never to eat less frequently but to make the diet as convenient as possible. :)

boogiepop
07-26-2009, 01:20 AM
Thanks for sharing. Too bad though you didn't think of having your blood thoroughly tested before and after, it would have been useful to show any differences between eating clean 100% vs. 80% of the time as far as general health goes, and not just outer appearance.

andrewpoleon
07-26-2009, 01:36 AM
I completely agree with Bn'B, as you can see from my logs, I am doing the same thing Wavelength recommended. ANd it's working quite great! My strength and muscle mass is increasing, and I am loosing weight.

Bignbuff
07-26-2009, 08:28 AM
Thanks for sharing. Too bad though you didn't think of having your blood thoroughly tested before and after, it would have been useful to show any differences between eating clean 100% vs. 80% of the time as far as general health goes, and not just outer appearance.
It would be interesting. I should note that I feel great all the time and have no problem coming up with energy from the gym without supplements. Not sure if that says anything with regards to where my blood levels would be, though.

Regardless, I don't think a pint of B&J four or five times per week is going to kill me (not that I'm planning for it long-term). I used to be less active, and while I wouldn't eat ice cream as often, I ate a decent amount of fried foods and a lot more butter/oils than I do now, and all my levels were fine then. Heck, the last time I had my bloodwork done was in late-December, between the holidays and when I started my cut. Even after my holiday binge, involving a ton of cookies and other goodies (one night I drank a quart of eggnog), I was still alright.

Bignbuff
07-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Haha, awesome thread, I'm a tad biased though. :D

And eating 5 times a day is perfectly fine, my point was never to eat less frequently but to make the diet as convenient as possible.
This is what I took away, and hence, adopted your approach to fit my needs/desires. :)

Bignbuff
07-26-2009, 10:54 AM
So, I'm considering making/baking some type of dessert for my post-experiment cheat day tomorrow. Any suggestions? Thinking apple pie right now, but would like to hear other recommendations.

andrewpoleon
07-26-2009, 11:22 AM
So, I'm considering making/baking some type of dessert for my post-experiment cheat day tomorrow. Any suggestions? Thinking apple pie right now, but would like to hear other recommendations.

Crem Brule, or Souffle :D

Btw, what is your cheat experiment? I am pretty much back where I was from my epic cheat day :D

dimasso69
07-26-2009, 11:42 AM
So, I'm considering making/baking some type of dessert for my post-experiment cheat day tomorrow. Any suggestions? Thinking apple pie right now, but would like to hear other recommendations.

If you like Reeses..Make brownies I make two batches kind of thin, enough to stack them. I put the frosting in the middle and then atop. i make PB frosting which i found a great recipe for:
Ingredients:
1 cup confectioners? sugar
1 cup creamy peanut butter
5 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/3 cup heavy cream

Or just make this Reeses cake! http://smellslikehome.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/reeses-peanut-butter-chocolate-cake/

Bignbuff
07-26-2009, 12:31 PM
Crem Brule, or Souffle :D

Btw, what is your cheat experiment? I am pretty much back where I was from my epic cheat day :D
Hmmmm. I'll look into recipes for those.

The cheat isn't an experiment. It's simply that I haven't had Pizza Hut in a long time and because it's so difficult to fit into daily macros (since I go all out when eating pizza, typically), I made it a cheat day.


If you like Reeses..Make brownies I make two batches kind of thin, enough to stack them. I put the frosting in the middle and then atop. i make PB frosting which i found a great recipe for:
Ingredients:
1 cup confectioners? sugar
1 cup creamy peanut butter
5 tablespoons unsalted butter, at room temperature
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/3 cup heavy cream

Or just make this Reeses cake! http://smellslikehome.wordpress.com/...hocolate-cake/
Wow. Good ideas. Still not sure if I'm going to bake something or not. May get a little lazy. :D

The Solution
07-26-2009, 12:51 PM
So, I'm considering making/baking some type of dessert for my post-experiment cheat day tomorrow. Any suggestions? Thinking apple pie right now, but would like to hear other recommendations.

Give me what you want, and i have a recipe for it.. (Serious)

Bignbuff
07-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Give me what you want, and i have a recipe for it.. (Serious)
Thanks for the offer. Really just want to do something relatively simple. Will let you know, if, when, I decide on something.

Cant1Stop
07-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Nice to see it worked out for you, and how you are able to incorporate certain meals in your diet. Good experiment, as for the dessert..cheesecake?

andrewpoleon
07-26-2009, 01:56 PM
Wrong thread.

girl81
07-26-2009, 11:47 PM
In mid-June, after reading several posts and tracking some individual's logs (e.g. wave_length), I decided I would try out their approach to dieting on myself and see how it would work. As you may be familiar, the approach is simple. As long as one consumes sufficient protein per day and eats the correct amount of calories, the amount of fat or carbs they intake is irrelevant, as are the sources they are obtained from.



I think fat is relevant in that it is important to obtain a sufficient amount of omega 3's

Emma-Leigh
07-27-2009, 07:28 AM
I think fat is relevant in that it is important to obtain a sufficient amount of omega 3's
^ which is only in the order of a few grams for most people, and something that can easily be reached on a number of diets:

[read me: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=114318231 ]


As far as I can tell, there no daily requirements have been issued. So should I just focus on making Omega-3's a certain percentage of my fat intake?


Thanks Emma-Leigh, I have also noticed that there have been quite some discussions on the topic lately. What would you suggest as minimal intake and in what form (if it's not covered by normal nutrition)?
This is very hard to say - it depends on many things such as a persons age, or stage in growth and development (or if they are pregnant/ breastfeeding in the case of a female), their training status, and if they have any underlying health concerns or goals.

Omega-6 fats (Of which I would consider LA 'essential') are usually found at sufficient levels in most peoples diets, but something around 10-20g a day (being slightly less in females/ more in males) is 'an adequate minimum' for most people (male and female) between 18 and 45 to 50 years. In terms of % of diet - most suggest about 4-6% coming from omega-6 fats.

Omega-3 fats (of which I would consider ALA, EPA and DHA all 'essential' due to the poor conversion rates) needs to be, at a minimum, a combined total about 6-7g (once again - range of between 5 and 10g). So that is about 2-4g of ALA, and a combined total of 2-3g of EPA and DHA (eg: 6 to 10g fish oil caps a day).

To combine them - it would be a 'minimum healthy % PUFA fat' of about 8-10%

But, once again - I restate that these are MINIMUMS for 'health'. They are not what is 'optimal' nor 'best', especially for those who are in heavy training or have other issues to consider.

Also:


That one is kind of confusing, since the "E" in "EFA" means essential.
Without going into the details of the thread topic - in regards to EFA's specifically.... This is where many are confused by the term and have been lead to believe something different to what is true.

EFA = essential fatty acids. And they ARE essential... BUT --> A lot of people don't actually KNOW which fats are counted as essential fatty acids (and there is still a lot of debate in the nutritional community too), and what level of intake is actually 'essential'.

If people want to read about it I linked a few good articles here:

psssttt - total dietary fat requirements =/= EFA requirements.
Diet fats = total fat consumed.
EFA = essential fatty acids (those fatty acids that your body can not make but require for normal health/ functioning).

And the answer is 'it is complex' - and debate is still happening regarding which actual fatty acids ARE considered 'essential'....

But suffice to say, although those are good 'base' figures for total dietary fat - you don't need anywhere near that amount of the 'essential fatty acids'. ;)

Few things to read:
READ ME (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBP-490RC9W-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f8d38b12dec9fc20290a0651918be7e9)
AND ME (http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.html)
ANOTHER HERE (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/560S)
AND HERE (http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/omega3fa/)

dishalish
07-27-2009, 08:32 AM
Hey nice experiment, reading about this kind of an approach a while back made me rethink everything. It's good that it's remaining in the limelight and that it seems like it went well for you.

So what did the cheat end up like? :D


Your the man. I would rep you, but it wouldn't do anything. lol

Hey brah, I gave the repz.

Bignbuff
07-27-2009, 09:23 AM
I think fat is relevant in that it is important to obtain a sufficient amount of omega 3's
I agree. This is why I sometimes included fish/flax oils in my diet, when I was low on EFAs for the day.

Bignbuff
07-27-2009, 09:26 AM
Hey nice experiment, reading about this kind of an approach a while back made me rethink everything. It's good that it's remaining in the limelight and that it seems like it went well for you.

So what did the cheat end up like? :D
Cheat actually got moved back to tomorrow. Had some other things going on today.

To be honest, one nice thing about this diet is that I really don't get cravings to go all-out and binge. My cheat day tomorrow will likely not be as epic as some others posted, simply because there's really not that much I'm dying to have right now - which is nice.


Hey brah, I gave the repz.
Thanks!

nano.ix
07-27-2009, 09:27 AM
i have no self control :o ... good following to wavelength, i hope i see more of this in the future to blunt the bb.com parrots.

progress pics? :D:D

uprise240
07-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Great progress! I have been doing the "wave_length" thing since before i knew it was the the "wave_length" thing and have had great results! You are right though about the cheats. You really do stop having those crazy all out cravings-in turn your cheats become less epic (which is probably a good thing). But over all awesome progress.

I think this way of eating is the most simple and easiest to keep track of. Plus the results are awesome and you rarely feel hungry!

Way to go BignBuff keep us updated!

wave_length
07-27-2009, 01:12 PM
Great progress! I have been doing the "wave_length" thing since before i knew it was the the "wave_length" thing and have had great results! You are right though about the cheats. You really do stop having those crazy all out cravings-in turn your cheats become less epic (which is probably a good thing). But over all awesome progress.

I think this way of eating is the most simple and easiest to keep track of. Plus the results are awesome and you rarely feel hungry!

Way to go BignBuff keep us updated!

Exactly, there is no such thing as the "wave_length" method of course, it's all just a little bit of common sense and ignoring the bro science. :D

nano.ix
07-27-2009, 01:23 PM
Exactly, there is no such thing as the "wave_length" method of course, it's all just a little bit of common sense and ignoring the bro science. :D

your the revolution leader, even though the theories are practised and taught one must take charge and bring everyone else :cool: (1984/animal farm images popping into my head for some reason)

kvdoherty
07-27-2009, 05:02 PM
subscribed bc this is actually what I am going to be doing once my cut ends on august 11th...its a way to enjoy food while still looking good, lifting and maintaing a "normal" life and maybe not have to be so strict from here on out

Bignbuff
07-27-2009, 05:32 PM
subscribed bc this is actually what I am going to be doing once my cut ends on august 11th...its a way to enjoy food while still looking good, lifting and maintaing a "normal" life and maybe not have to be so strict from here on out
Exactly. You're doing exactly as I did following my cut for a Bahamas vacation and it's so nice. I just went to Red Lobster for dinner with my mom and had no problem enjoying a normal meal of pasta with a buttery sauce, lobster, and shrimp (although I got no dressing on my salad and a half portion for the meal - but you get the point). Last time I was there I budgeted in a cheddar bay biscuit or two and New England clam chowder.

I've gained some nice mass while keeping the bodyfat away, but it all depends on your goals with what you wanna do.

kvdoherty
07-27-2009, 05:48 PM
yea i thnk what im gonna do is tweak it a little...

im gonna do oats and egg whites or a shake for bfast

chicken breast and salad for lunch

pre wo 1 scoop whey or chicken breast

post chicken or shake and dinner is w.e.

im gonna just try and maintain for a while and what most sites have spit back at me is that if i workout 6days a week i can maintain on 2700 which gives me some room to play with my macros


gl ...and im gonna be checkin in a lot

CaliforniaKing
07-27-2009, 07:00 PM
Bignbuff, just curious, do you use anything like FitDay to track your macros? Also, do you just log what you've just eaten right after, or do you plan your whole day's worth of meals out in advance?

I'm thinking of going with a more laid back approach where I just keep a general idea of how many macros I have eaten/have left in my head...sucks if I forget though, haha

uprise240
07-27-2009, 08:02 PM
^ i don't keep track using fitday at all. I just keep rough estimate in my head - It's the best part about eating this way! Keeping track track becomes very easy.

1. You know you are getting enough protein
2. Anything on top you just keep track of. With one meal a day it's simple!

To add: i haven't touched a scale in forever nor have i counted any macros and i look better and feel better than ever since i started doing this style diet a few months back.

(sorry to hijack your thread a bit BignBuff)

Bignbuff
07-27-2009, 08:29 PM
Bignbuff, just curious, do you use anything like FitDay to track your macros? Also, do you just log what you've just eaten right after, or do you plan your whole day's worth of meals out in advance?

I'm thinking of going with a more laid back approach where I just keep a general idea of how many macros I have eaten/have left in my head...sucks if I forget though, haha
I keep track in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet I've got saved to my computer. A couple reasons:

1) Don't always have internet access to do Fitday. Most of the 'typical' meals I have are already in the spreadsheet anyways.

2) I'm in finance/accounting and MS Excel is my life :D

Luckily since I'm not doing anything right now, I have the time to usually input something into the spreadsheet before I eat it to see how it will affect my daily calories and macros. I never really plan out my day's worth of meals in advance (sometimes I'll think what I'm going to have for breakfast the night before). I typically have my pint of B&J in mid-afternoon after my post workout meal. What I eat in a given day depends on what I feel like, and also what my family is having for dinner or if I'm at a restaurant and everyone at the table orders a beer (I'll budget it in).

During the mass majority of my cut I didn't keep track of calories or macros, but rather just stuck to eating "clean, healthy" foods and making sure to keep protein intake high. Part of this was because a lot of my meals were at the college dining hall and it's tough to keep track of ingredients and exact serving sizes there. I would guess that some days I was probably eating above maintenance while other days I was eating well below maintenance (depending on the amount of oils and whatnot my college used to cook the meals).

The way I'm doing things now though is much better and more enjoyable. Next time I cut I'll be keeping track of everything.

Bignbuff
07-27-2009, 08:31 PM
^ i don't keep track using fitday at all. I just keep rough estimate in my head - It's the best part about eating this way! Keeping track track becomes very easy.

1. You know you are getting enough protein
2. Anything on top you just keep track of. With one meal a day it's simple!

To add: i haven't touched a scale in forever nor have i counted any macros and i look better and feel better than ever since i started doing this style diet a few months back.

(sorry to hijack your thread a bit BignBuff)
No hijack at all! I created this thread for discussion. ;)

wave_length
07-28-2009, 12:58 PM
your the revolution leader, even though the theories are practised and taught one must take charge and bring everyone else :cool: (1984/animal farm images popping into my head for some reason)

Always remember though, if it works out, I take all the credit, if not it's all your fault. :D

nano.ix
07-28-2009, 01:10 PM
Always remember though, if it works out, I take all the credit, if not it's all your fault. :D

i like my odds here :p


---
I track out days meals ahead of time ... hell i eat the same stuff more or less.
Im happy :)