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Sevb33
06-21-2009, 01:20 PM
I posted this in another forum here, it got just a bit of attention, thought it may get better here
At a link and video/written piece this guy states the best-case scenario (Without roids or growth hormone I presume) the most muscle you can gain is 5 lbs in a year of working out & training nearly flawlessly unless you are one of the very rare genetic types.

I a novice, do any of you experienced people think this is right? This guy is really built, so you'd think he knows what he is talking about.

What gets me is that when I lose very little weight, like just 2 lbs in a week (I am obese still, but have lost quite a bit since Jan.) some people tell me I am gaining muscle from lifting weights for 30 mins, 3 to 4 days a week. Which would be likely bogus if you can only gain at most 5 lbs of muscle in a year anyway, and that's from training a lot harder than I am.

I can't post links yet, I am too new and have not quite enough posts for it to let me do it, but do a search on "scooby workshop" and go to the "Bulking Up" section. And this below is what is written on the page:




"There is a LOT of bad information out there and people have a very warped view of what are reasonable expectations for putting on muscle thru weightlifting. Lets talk about teens and growth first, during the ages 16-22, teens are growing fast. In this time they are getting taller, adding body mass, and getting stronger all as part of the normal growth process without lifting a single weight. The reason this is important is that many times you hear anecdotes of teens who add 20lbs in one year lifting weights, well the truth is that they would have added 15lbs anyway thru the normal growth process, only the last 5lbs was actually muscle was actually added thru the weightlifting.

So what is a reasonable expectation for how much muscle you can add in a year thru weightlifting? Well if you lift with intensity 5 days a week for an hour a day all year long AND have proper nutrition (more on that later), you can expect to add 5lbs muscle per year if you are a hard gainer and 10lbs muscle if you are one of the gifted few. Doesn't sound like a lot you can do this year after year and slowly those slowly 5lb gains really add up. Picture yourself a decade later with 50lbs muscle on!

OK, now lets discuss how to gain muscle, as I said before you need to lift weights and have proper nutrition. Lets talk about resistance training first. You have to lift weights to get stronger and gain muscle. Mass follows strength, you cant get bigger without getting stronger. Here are workout plans for beginner, intermediate or advanced bodybuilders. Now lets talk about the dedication required. You cant add muscle by flitting around the gym now and then. Remember I said that you could expect to add 5lbs muscle (10 if you are lucky) if you worked really hard? Well this is the "work really hard part" - it means 5 days a week of intense lifting. Just being IN a gym an hour a day does nothing, chatting your buddies while standing near weights doesn't make your muscles grow - you need intense, focused workout sessions. Check out my section on "Focus" to see what I mean by that.

Believe it or not, lifting weights is the EASY part of gaining muscle, nutrition is the hard part. The #1 reason bodybuilders have poor results is not because they don't work out hard enough but because their nutrition sucks. It can take up to FIVE days for the muscles to rebuild after a workout and during that time you need a constant intake of protein. Your body can't store protein up so just having a huge steak with dinner will not work if you want to gain muscle, you need to take your protein in 6 small, even doses spread evenly through out the day to insure your recovering muscles always have the amino acids they need to rebuild. Nobody said bodybuilding was easy. The first thing you need to know about nutrition are some numbers. How many calories do you need in each meal and how many grams of protein do you need in each meal...."

So what do you guys think of this? What does he mean? I don't think he's just talking about experienced lifters either, if you read what he posted in the "bulking" section on his scooby workshop site.

airman26
06-21-2009, 02:44 PM
if you are eating right...i mean really eating. and if you are eating. and lifting heavy and eating. you might be able to put on a pound a week.

DE_58
06-21-2009, 02:47 PM
if you are eating right...i mean really eating. and if you are eating. and lifting heavy and eating. you might be able to put on a pound a week.

yeah, a pound of fat.

Sevb33
06-21-2009, 04:34 PM
yeah, a pound of fat.

Here's the link with the vid, now that I have enough post to post links

Here's the link now that I can post links
http://fitness.scoobysworkshop.com/gainingMuscle.htm

Mr.BigLegs
06-21-2009, 04:43 PM
5-10 lbs of muscle depending on how much muscle you already have and of course how good your genetics are.

Emma-Leigh
06-21-2009, 04:49 PM
As mentioned - it really does depends on your genetics, age, physiology etc etc.

Most of the time, for natties with average make-up - After the first yr or so of training you are looking at max of about 10-12# lean gains/ year for a male (ratio of ~ 66-75% lean gains... so a total gain up to 20# if you are going carefully)...

For a female - you can cut that to about 5-7# lean gains/ year at the most (with a slightly less favourable ratio of about 50-66%... so a total gain of anything between 12-15#).

Sevb33
06-21-2009, 05:03 PM
As mentioned - it really does depends on your genetics, age, physiology etc etc.

Most of the time, for natties with average make-up - After the first yr or so of training you are looking at max of about 10-12# lean gains/ year for a male (ratio of ~ 66-75% lean gains... so a total gain up to 20# if you are going carefully)...

For a female - you can cut that to about 5-7# lean gains/ year at the most (with a slightly less favourable ratio of about 50-66%... so a total gain of anything between 12-15#).

So why do you think he insists on the 5 lbs at most for those who train nearly flawlessly, 10 lbs for rare cases? Do you think he is over generalizing?

Angelus-Summers
06-21-2009, 05:48 PM
Idd rilly like to see some serous answer's on this subject, i two have seen this video, and shockingly i was talking about it just yesterday on weather or not it was true or falls, to show my intreast in the subject, instead of just surfing ive maid an acount, ive uploded 1 pic of my self currently, and for one pacific reason

I am a failed "bodybuilder" i did a load of reading on "bulking" i wanted to get bigger and stronger, i read things that only advanced bodybuilders whould do, like 4.5k++ calories a day over eating protean etc etc, i was a runer lean cut only neading 2000++ cal a day, and eating closs to 5000 all for the ideyah that to gain mass you had to eat more then you neadid and lift heavy, if you are going to build a new bathroom for the wife, ur going to nead more wood! right? (Cough)

i went from being 180 lbs to 230 lbs in less then 6 months, witch was basically my goal. little did i now i was gaining roughly 5/8 lbs a week and a majority of it was all fat!, i wanted to be more fite, i love serpasing my self, and in the end with the bulking faze i did, i surcume to be the worst shape ive ever bean. i now have 3 major injures, from torn ligaments in my shoulder from to heavy of bench press, and a torn back from incorrect dead lift form! leats just say i was to obsesed with a goal that was so unrealistic that this is what i deserve

but back to the topic we have going right now, what is a true healthy w8 one can expeact to gain yearly? when i was eating ass loads, and lifting on a 5x5 i was aboul to rack up 5lbs to 2.5lbs depending on the work out i was doing that week, and i now for a fact that i did gain at least some lean mass in my stupidity, under all this fat was once a guy that could lift 235 lbs bench and 300 lbl dead lift, and when i started i could only bench 135, so to gain this sort of str in 6 months probably was not healthy but it was doable

superhombre2k
06-21-2009, 05:56 PM
It seems like all that fat gain made you retarded, too.

Edit: Oh ****... this isn't the Misc.

Sevb33
06-21-2009, 06:12 PM
It seems like all that fat gain made you retarded, too.

Edit: Oh ****... this isn't the Misc.

Maybe me or someone should post this is one of the other forums? For more opinions?

SophieM
06-21-2009, 07:09 PM
I've heard the 5 lbs a year thing and I just don't believe it. I did some searching and found some references to studies. http://www.mens-total-fitness.com/muscle-gain.html

"The "average" male, if there is such a thing, with a year or two of training behind them can expect to gain roughly 2-4% of their initial weight after six weeks of regular resistance exercise [3, 4]. Although I haven't seen many studies on muscle growth in women, my best guess is that gains in the "average" female are approximately half those seen in males. For example, someone who weighs 180 pounds might expect to gain an extra four, five, maybe even seven pounds of lean muscle over a six-week period.

It's not realistic to gain weight at this rate forever. Over the course of a year, it's rare to add more than 25 pounds of muscle. Sure, you might gain more than 25 pounds in weight. But, unless you're using drugs, gaining this much lean muscle in one year or less is very hard to do.

These figures are based on the results of studies using trained subjects with a body fat percentage of 10-15%. Whether extremely lean or very overweight people would get the same results is hard to say.

It's also quite normal to put on a little fat at the same time. So, for every five pounds of muscle you gain, expect to add a pound or two of fat. Although some people want to gain mass while at the same time maintaining very low levels of body fat, this is actually very hard to do."

Also this: http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/fail.htm

Researchers from the Netherlands, for example, found that men with a "solid" build gained more muscle than men with a "slender" build following a 12-week weight-training program [7].

Although fat-free mass increased in both groups, the slender guys gained only 0.7 pounds (0.3 kilograms) versus 3.5 pounds (1.6 kilograms) in the solid group.

Studies show that during a period of overfeeding, you'll gain more muscle and less fat if you're naturally lean to start with [6]. Conversely, fatter people tend to lose more fat and less muscle when they go on a diet. The leaner you get, the harder it gets to lose fat without losing muscle.

johnderriLLL
06-21-2009, 07:16 PM
why are you worried about this? do u really believe everything you read? even i can publish text on the internet.

even if it was true u just have to be in it to win it.

Sevb33
06-21-2009, 08:05 PM
why are you worried about this? do u really believe everything you read? even i can publish text on the internet.

even if it was true u just have to be in it to win it.

I don't believe everything I read, that's why I was putting it front of a lot of people that have real life experiences here. To get their input.

LoKx
06-21-2009, 10:33 PM
It seems like all that fat gain made you retarded, too.

Edit: Oh ****... this isn't the Misc.

true that and quote made me laugh my ass off.

Chris@UGA
06-22-2009, 02:25 PM
I used to think that in 2 years of lifting I'd be at 225lbs, 8% body fat.

Well, I'm 2 years down the road and I'm about 205lbs at 10-11% body fat. I've lifted hard and eaten right. It's just not as easy as some of you believe.

DomzyCuttin
06-23-2009, 09:27 AM
I don't believe everything I read, that's why I was putting it front of a lot of people that have real life experiences here. To get their input.

I agree with him. After the initial few months (noob gains), 5-10 lbs of muscle a year seems right. You have to really consider it as an average ok. If you gain 30 lbs in your bulk, 14 of it being muscle, but then lose 6 lbs of that muscle in your cut (which is almost inevitable unless your NEVER missing a meal and on some drugs) then your averaging 9 lbs for that year.

Ive been in it for 4 years. And yeah ive had periods that i'd gain 20 LEAN LBS in 1 cycle (tren aggghhhhhh) but at the end of the year you dont retain every single gain you make. Ultimitely I agree with him, on average most people will gain (retain) about 5-10 lbs (naturally) a year.

Sevb33
06-23-2009, 07:24 PM
I agree with him. After the initial few months (noob gains), 5-10 lbs of muscle a year seems right. You have to really consider it as an average ok. If you gain 30 lbs in your bulk, 14 of it being muscle, but then lose 6 lbs of that muscle in your cut (which is almost inevitable unless your NEVER missing a meal and on some drugs) then your averaging 9 lbs for that year.

Ive been in it for 4 years. And yeah ive had periods that i'd gain 20 LEAN LBS in 1 cycle (tren aggghhhhhh) but at the end of the year you dont retain every single gain you make. Ultimitely I agree with him, on average most people will gain (retain) about 5-10 lbs (naturally) a year.

Ok, I weigh myself once a week, still a newbie, so gaining lean mass the same as gaining muscle right? That's why I am trying to build muscle while losing fat, (lifting 4 days a week, for over a month now) so on the weeks I lose less weight people say "Don't worry, You're gaining muscle", I laugh if it's true the most one can gain is 5-10 lbs in an entire year, so there is no way you can gain even one pound of muscle a in a week! Or does what they say have a bit of truth?

MormonCrusader
06-23-2009, 07:46 PM
I think that you can gain around 3 lbs of muscle in a month. Like I lost 2% bodyfat and stayed the same weight in a month which is like 3 lbs. 5 lbs in a year is bologne.

Emma-Leigh
06-28-2009, 02:12 AM
On this topic == >>
A few articles people might be interested in reading:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

Rockfella
06-28-2009, 02:17 AM
Yes i have seen it before. Same guy also says donot squat deep, he is crazy!

Here's the link with the vid, now that I have enough post to post links

Here's the link now that I can post links
http://fitness.scoobysworkshop.com/gainingMuscle.htm

king87
06-28-2009, 03:24 AM
I have gained nearly 12 lbs in 9 months. Most of it muscle.

KyleAaron
06-28-2009, 03:41 AM
Hard to say. The thing is, setting the beginner gains aside, there are occasional people who gain more than 10lbs in a year, and lots who gain less than 5lbs.

So it depends on a lot of things - your workouts, your diet, events in your life over the year, your genetics, and so on.

All that matters is your potential. And the only way to discover your potential is to eat well, rest well, and get under the iron.

Emma-Leigh
06-28-2009, 03:42 AM
^ you are also a 21 yr old male. ;)

jmd92
06-28-2009, 05:20 PM
Maybe 5 pounds for a hard-gainer, but for the normal lifter, I'd put it more towards 10 or 15 lbs at max.

SknyBstrd
06-29-2009, 03:58 PM
I posted this in another forum here, it got just a bit of attention, thought it may get better here
At a link and video/written piece this guy states the best-case scenario (Without roids or growth hormone I presume) the most muscle you can gain is 5 lbs in a year of working out & training nearly flawlessly unless you are one of the very rare genetic types.

I a novice, do any of you experienced people think this is right? This guy is really built, so you'd think he knows what he is talking about.

What gets me is that when I lose very little weight, like just 2 lbs in a week (I am obese still, but have lost quite a bit since Jan.) some people tell me I am gaining muscle from lifting weights for 30 mins, 3 to 4 days a week. Which would be likely bogus if you can only gain at most 5 lbs of muscle in a year anyway, and that's from training a lot harder than I am.

I can't post links yet, I am too new and have not quite enough posts for it to let me do it, but do a search on "scooby workshop" and go to the "Bulking Up" section. And this below is what is written on the page:




"There is a LOT of bad information out there and people have a very warped view of what are reasonable expectations for putting on muscle thru weightlifting. Lets talk about teens and growth first, during the ages 16-22, teens are growing fast. In this time they are getting taller, adding body mass, and getting stronger all as part of the normal growth process without lifting a single weight. The reason this is important is that many times you hear anecdotes of teens who add 20lbs in one year lifting weights, well the truth is that they would have added 15lbs anyway thru the normal growth process, only the last 5lbs was actually muscle was actually added thru the weightlifting.

So what is a reasonable expectation for how much muscle you can add in a year thru weightlifting? Well if you lift with intensity 5 days a week for an hour a day all year long AND have proper nutrition (more on that later), you can expect to add 5lbs muscle per year if you are a hard gainer and 10lbs muscle if you are one of the gifted few. Doesn't sound like a lot you can do this year after year and slowly those slowly 5lb gains really add up. Picture yourself a decade later with 50lbs muscle on!

OK, now lets discuss how to gain muscle, as I said before you need to lift weights and have proper nutrition. Lets talk about resistance training first. You have to lift weights to get stronger and gain muscle. Mass follows strength, you cant get bigger without getting stronger. Here are workout plans for beginner, intermediate or advanced bodybuilders. Now lets talk about the dedication required. You cant add muscle by flitting around the gym now and then. Remember I said that you could expect to add 5lbs muscle (10 if you are lucky) if you worked really hard? Well this is the "work really hard part" - it means 5 days a week of intense lifting. Just being IN a gym an hour a day does nothing, chatting your buddies while standing near weights doesn't make your muscles grow - you need intense, focused workout sessions. Check out my section on "Focus" to see what I mean by that.

Believe it or not, lifting weights is the EASY part of gaining muscle, nutrition is the hard part. The #1 reason bodybuilders have poor results is not because they don't work out hard enough but because their nutrition sucks. It can take up to FIVE days for the muscles to rebuild after a workout and during that time you need a constant intake of protein. Your body can't store protein up so just having a huge steak with dinner will not work if you want to gain muscle, you need to take your protein in 6 small, even doses spread evenly through out the day to insure your recovering muscles always have the amino acids they need to rebuild. Nobody said bodybuilding was easy. The first thing you need to know about nutrition are some numbers. How many calories do you need in each meal and how many grams of protein do you need in each meal...."

So what do you guys think of this? What does he mean? I don't think he's just talking about experienced lifters either, if you read what he posted in the "bulking" section on his scooby workshop site.

Is that your actual weight? If so, you're a ****ing monster man.

Joshua_B
06-30-2009, 08:22 AM
I'm glad this topic came up because this is something that's really been bugging me. I'm about nine months into my first year of serious training. I've gained about 16 pounds so far, probably 8 or 9 of those are muscle (just a guess). If so that's a gain of a pound per month or less.

So where the heck are my beginner gains??? I keep reading in threads about people putting on like 25-30 lbs their first year doing Starting Strength. Now, I'm not saying I've done everything perfectly but I've been pretty damn dedicated, and at best I'm looking at 10-12lb gain for my first year. That just seems so low! It's very discouraging.

rampagefc77
06-30-2009, 08:22 AM
I think that you can gain around 3 lbs of muscle in a month. Like I lost 2% bodyfat and stayed the same weight in a month which is like 3 lbs. 5 lbs in a year is bologne.

So you are saying you have the ability to gain 36+ pounds of pure muscle a year? Meaning in 3 years you are able to gain well over 100+ pounds of pure muscle? Naturally? Might as well take advantage of that and be the first natty to step on the olympia stage.

OP- 5-10 is a pretty accurate range when it comes to pure muscle gain in a year for a natty. You can gain more, but it will likely be fat, water retention, glycogen storage, etc.

Gosu
06-30-2009, 09:27 AM
"in 13 years of bodybuilding, dorian yates has gained 70 pounds of muscle"


now you do math

keep in mind that dorian is juicing and profesional athlete (multiple mr O winner)

Razicator
06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
So where the heck are my beginner gains??? I keep reading in threads about people putting on like 25-30 lbs their first year doing Starting Strength. Now, I'm not saying I've done everything perfectly but I've been pretty damn dedicated, and at best I'm looking at 10-12lb gain for my first year. That just seems so low! It's very discouraging.

This is what's confusing about Ripptoe's workout. You hear people swear that they get 30+ pounds off of it in a year (even written in Starting Strength), but that's from teenagers who are just starting strength training for high school football (ei freshmen). MOST of it would have come anyways because this is the prime time for growth spurts (ie growing 2-3 inches in a year practically comes with 15+ pounds of fat/muscle to go with the frame), and the rest is from actually weight lifting.

5 lbs for hard-gainer, 10 lbs for rest sounds about right, maybe a bit low, but still good.

ThaJiggaMan
06-30-2009, 02:04 PM
So you are saying you have the ability to gain 36+ pounds of pure muscle a year? Meaning in 3 years you are able to gain well over 100+ pounds of pure muscle? Naturally? Might as well take advantage of that and be the first natty to step on the olympia stage.

OP- 5-10 is a pretty accurate range when it comes to pure muscle gain in a year for a natty. You can gain more, but it will likely be fat, water retention, glycogen storage, etc.

your stupid... u dont consistantly gain that every month, and u cant do that repeatly, u know that, he knows that, and i know that

paolo59
06-30-2009, 04:44 PM
5 pounds of solid muscle is quite a lot. If one has low body fat, that would be very noticeable. Over the last year or so I have dropped ten pounds, and added a good amount of size, especially in the shoulders and legs. At 5'8" I was not fat at 170 pounds. I am now around 160. Weight alone can be deceptive. I've seen some individuals with incredible physiques, and have been shocked at how "light" they were! It's like, hell, I weigh ten pounds more and don't look anything like that!!!! LOL

Sevb33
07-01-2009, 12:59 AM
Is that your actual weight? If so, you're a ****ing monster man.

Yes it's my weight but it's mostly fat, if you've see my chart you'll know I've lost 83.5 lbs since Jan 1st this year. I plan to lose another 80+ by the end of the year. and another 80+ the first 6 months of next year putting me at around 250 lbs (I think is a pretty good weight for me) and all the while I am lifting weights and gaining muscle. I am still learning to "crawl before I walk". I've been averaging about a 3 lbs loss per week, sometimes more, sometimes less, of course.

RLara85
07-01-2009, 05:56 PM
It depends how developed you are. For someone who's been in the game for 15 years, gaining 5 lbs of lean tissue in a year is a pretty damn big deal.... go to the grocery store and look at 5lbs of lean meat, that's a LOT of tissue to add to your body, especially if you've already put on pounds of mass over the years.

So yeah, it's logical and I'd say it's a damn good gain.

Weight doesn't matter. I've seen people at 230lbs that look flabby and scrawny, I've seen guys at 170lbs (Jim Cordova) that look freakishly huge. Your bone structure, height, organs, how much water your retain etc. all come into play when it's about your weight. Go by measurements.... if you weight 150lbs and have 19 inch arms.... that's insane, but who cares, you look good. I almost never go above 210lbs, why? Because foods expensive? I've actually dropped down to 205 and my arms, legs, calves, forearms, neck... well, everything, has grown. Just proof that weight doesn't mean much.

paolo59
07-01-2009, 06:28 PM
It depends how developed you are. For someone who's been in the game for 15 years, gaining 5 lbs of lean tissue in a year is a pretty damn big deal.... go to the grocery store and look at 5lbs of lean meat, that's a LOT of tissue to add to your body, especially if you've already put on pounds of mass over the years.

So yeah, it's logical and I'd say it's a damn good gain.

Weight doesn't matter. I've seen people at 230lbs that look flabby and scrawny, I've seen guys at 170lbs (Jim Cordova) that look freakishly huge. Your bone structure, height, organs, how much water your retain etc. all come into play when it's about your weight. Go by measurements.... if you weight 150lbs and have 19 inch arms.... that's insane, but who cares, you look good. I almost never go above 210lbs, why? Because foods expensive? I've actually dropped down to 205 and my arms, legs, calves, forearms, neck... well, everything, has grown. Just proof that weight doesn't mean much.

Excellent example! You look at what 5 pounds of lean meat looks like, you're absolutely right, it's a lot!!!

Obnoxious123
07-01-2009, 07:00 PM
you guys must realize that the TOP professional bodybuilders come back to the same contest the next year at pretty much exactly the same BF% and are most of the time within 10lbs of what they were the previous year. that is PURE muscle. i think 5lbs a year is average for the average male to gain in muscle over a year, a natural one. around double that for a non-natural.

Sevb33
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
you guys must realize that the TOP professional bodybuilders come back to the same contest the next year at pretty much exactly the same BF% and are most of the time within 10lbs of what they were the previous year. that is PURE muscle. i think 5lbs a year is average for the average male to gain in muscle over a year, a natural one. around double that for a non-natural.

So I guess that shoots down those who say to me on weeks I don't lose as much weight, "You're gaining muscle." and imply that accounts for less weight loss, more muscle gained! But that's unlikely if you can only gain 5 to 10 lbs a year at most, a week is nothing compared to a year.

2.0Tsunami
07-02-2009, 12:02 PM
5lbs/year might be a general 'rule of thumb' but will not apply to everyone. I've gained 14lbs of muscle over the past two years but I attribute that to more of how big my frame is AND the fact that it came w/ ~30lbs of fat :(

iDrive
07-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Thought this might pertain to the discussion. Taken from this (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117041431) thread in the nutrition section.


Might wanna actually listen to what I said, broski.

I specifically said that it's rare for drug-free fully-grown adults to have a net gain (not post-diet regain) of more than 50 lbs of muscle during their entire training career. That's an accurate statement. I never said it was impossible, but it is indeed a rare occurence, and it's not realistic for the vast majority of FULLY GROWN ADULTS to expect to exceed a 50 lb muscular gain. Adults stop growing on average in their early to mid 20's. So, how much did you weigh in your early/mid 20's compared to now? If it's more than a 50 lb difference in muscle, you're the exception rather than the rule.

Go to the thread for the full discussion.