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Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 05:03 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

geeseman
06-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Nice forum name for a guy who loves jesus.

I can give you my opinion as an athiest

http://members.optushome.com.au/geesehoward1/Fkyou.jpg

Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Nice forum name for a guy who loves jesus.

I can give you my opinion as an athiest

http://members.optushome.com.au/geesehoward1/Fkyou.jpg

fail on img

thanks for the compliment

god bless

geeseman
06-04-2009, 05:17 PM
fail on img

thanks for the compliment

god bless

Dude, when you make stupid, uninformed comments like:
Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell.

You have to expect a response like
http://members.optushome.com.au/geesehoward1/Fkyou.jpg

Violator009
06-04-2009, 05:19 PM
Nice forum name for a guy who loves jesus.

I can give you my opinion as an athiest

http://members.optushome.com.au/geesehoward1/Fkyou.jpg

lmao are you always in a bad mood or did someone piss in your coffee

Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 06:54 PM
lmao are you always in a bad mood or did someone piss in your coffee

he mad cuz he red and doesnt have faith in jesus

DCarruso
06-04-2009, 06:58 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless
What if after they die, they knee before God and beg for forgiveness? :D

Let's not worry over this. Let this be something between them and God, when the time comes. :D

Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 07:02 PM
What if after they die, they knee before God and beg for forgiveness? :D

Let's not worry over this. Let this be something between them and God, when the time comes. :D

thanks for your opinion and god bless

hooked4life
06-04-2009, 07:09 PM
thanks for your opinion and god bless

Not worried one tiny bit - your God doesn't exist.

AronP24
06-04-2009, 07:10 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless


It breaks my heart sometimes...however, I would be a liar if I said it was my biggest concern 'in life'. I pray daily for even those on this board (including you Geeseman ;) )to come to know the Joy some of us Christians on this board have come to know through the saving power of Christ....but I admit I don't do it enough...nor does it "get" to me enough...
I still have a heart of stone at times.

Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 07:16 PM
Not worried one tiny bit - your God doesn't exist.

Ill pray for you

hooked4life
06-04-2009, 07:20 PM
Ill pray for you

And I'll feel a little sorry for you, basing your moral foundation on a bronze age myth and creating some twisted schizophrenic schema that can see god as all loving while creating the very definition of suffering for me, an 'otherwise' highly moral individual.

nonAtlas
06-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Christians: Do you feel sorry for the people doomed to an eternity in hell?


Yes. It grieves the Savior that so many so easily dismiss Him and the enormous price He paid to forgive them, as well as the reality of eternity separated from Him, so why would it not also sadden us saints?

:(

Thomas.of.Hunter
06-04-2009, 07:26 PM
yeah I do

stealth_swimmer
06-04-2009, 08:48 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

It has nothing to do with being selfish and immoral, jerk.

And yes, I do feel sorry for them. They just took the info and weighed it with the evidence they had at hand and just came to a different conclusion than the one I came to. Doesn't mean they're bad people, just means they reached a different conclusion. I hope they'll change their minds in the future, but I feel since they already have heard the info there isn't much more that I personally can do for them.

fecale_matter
06-04-2009, 08:56 PM
No, christians like the idea of atheists and people they don't like burning in hell for eternity.

Even if they lie and say "oh, it's horrible that they choose hell instead of jeezus lol!"...they obviously love it. It satisfies their bloodthirsty evil natures.

jeezus and god get to jerk off to the pain and suffering of billions of people for all eternity, and christians get to swim around in their semen.

Skunk
06-04-2009, 08:57 PM
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/ndschwartz/Misc%20Boy/MB023.jpg

Tommy2010
06-04-2009, 09:00 PM
Yes. It grieves the Savior that so many so easily dismiss Him and the enormous price He paid to forgive them, as well as the reality of eternity separated from Him, so why would it not also sadden us saints?

:(
Yeah, God's ass wants people to believe in a guy called Jesus that got owned on a cross and rose from the dead....and read a book that was written thousands of years ago? God has NOT kept up with the times, he should honestly do a Twitter following..so he can reach out to those who desperately want to believe...but just can't fathom something so outstanding and old-fashioned.

But when I just ask him to say, "Hello, how are you doing?"

I don't get a damn thing from Him.

If you say that you do, well, tell me how you get anything out of God?

stealth_swimmer
06-04-2009, 09:03 PM
No, christians like the idea of atheists and people they don't like burning in hell for eternity.

Even if they lie and say "oh, it's horrible that they choose hell instead of jeezus lol!"...they obviously love it. It satisfies their bloodthirsty evil natures.

jeezus and god get to jerk off to the pain and suffering of billions of people for all eternity, and christians get to swim around in their semen.

No, not all Christians are happy about that stuff, but lol @ your post (not an actual lol, but I laughed in my head, lulz)

fecale_matter
06-04-2009, 09:05 PM
No, not all Christians are happy about that stuff, but lol @ your post (not an actual lol, but I laughed in my head, lulz)

Good job having a good sense of humor and not being a defensive lil' bitch like some xtians!

stealth_swimmer
06-04-2009, 09:45 PM
Good job having a good sense of humor and not being a defensive lil' bitch like some xtians!

thx, lol

oh and strong join date and post count

Gordon_Gekko
06-04-2009, 09:52 PM
It has nothing to do with being selfish and immoral, jerk.

And yes, I do feel sorry for them. They just took the info and weighed it with the evidence they had at hand and just came to a different conclusion than the one I came to. Doesn't mean they're bad people, just means they reached a different conclusion. I hope they'll change their minds in the future, but I feel since they already have heard the info there isn't much more that I personally can do for them.

stats 5'5 231lbs

looks like you have been violating the sins of gluttony and sloth I wont be seeing you at the pearly gates either

bmy-
06-04-2009, 10:04 PM
stats 5'5 231lbs

looks like you have been violating the sins of gluttony and sloth I wont be seeing you at the pearly gates either

strong post count for a troll brah

LOL 51 posts per day.

geeseman
06-04-2009, 10:15 PM
he mad cuz he red and doesnt have faith in jesus

Actually I'm in the red because I don't have faith in jebus. Some mods here don't like it when I tell people they are full of **** because they tell me they pity me as a non-christian...



It breaks my heart sometimes...however, I would be a liar if I said it was my biggest concern 'in life'. I pray daily for even those on this board (including you Geeseman )to come to know the Joy some of us Christians on this board have come to know through the saving power of Christ....but I admit I don't do it enough...nor does it "get" to me enough...
I still have a heart of stone at times.
Dude, it's nice you care about the welfare of others, but your feelings are misplaced.
I used to be a christian and I had the same misplaced feelings that you do. In the end I realise it was my own compassion that I felt for others and not any of 'gods love'.
As for the joy of being a christian - it is nothing compared to the joy of knowing more about the universe and all within it. The joy from life is understanding, and the bible provides no understanding. It merely calls on you to feel a delusional state of wellbeing that is based on things that do not exist.

Any feelings of good you have for other people are you own. They do not come from god. Stop and give yourself some credit for being a good person. You are not the unworthy, sinful, piece of rubbish the bible says you are.

_TG_
06-04-2009, 10:19 PM
stats 5'5 231lbs

looks like you have been violating the sins of gluttony and sloth I wont be seeing you at the pearly gates either
pwned - u want be in mythical heaven either. VVVVV

heineken dark is some good **** brah

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/137757556_05873abdb3.jpg?v=0

nonAtlas
06-04-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah, God ass wants people to believe Jesus got owned on a cross and rose from the dead....and read a book that was written thousands of years ago?


"owned"? No, for His sacrifice for YOU was planned long before He came to earth and showed us the way to live. Satan and this earth (his kingdom) have "owned" you, my friend, but your anger makes you averse to learning anything that doesn't cater to the flesh. Here's to hoping you live long enough to see how silly your worldview is. As for the Word of God, it is the most true and up-to-date book around, and its perfection makes it 100% correct and proven so by science, archaeology, history and fulfilled prophecy.

Do a little reading and inform yourself. :)

bmy-
06-04-2009, 10:43 PM
"owned"? No, for His sacrifice for YOU was planned long before He came to earth and showed us the way to live. Satan and this earth (his kingdom) have "owned" you, my friend, but your anger makes you averse to learning anything that doesn't cater to the flesh. Here's to hoping you live long enough to see how silly your worldview is. As for the Word of God, it is the most true and up-to-date book around, and its perfection makes it 100% correct and proven so by science, archaeology, history and fulfilled prophecy.

Do a little reading and inform yourself. :)

Speaking of the actual Bible itself (and not of Jesus).. why are there factual inconsistencies? Simple things.. like the numbers of soldiers killed, or lineage, etc?

hooked4life
06-04-2009, 10:44 PM
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo45/ndschwartz/Misc%20Boy/MB023.jpg

win

nonAtlas
06-04-2009, 10:45 PM
Speaking of the actual Bible itself (and not of Jesus).. why are there factual inconsistencies? Simple things.. like the numbers of soldiers killed, or lineage, etc?



Examples, please. :) By the way, there is no "inconsistency" with regard to the lineage of Jesus, which is the common false accusation. So aside from that, what complaint do you have?

stealth_swimmer
06-04-2009, 10:53 PM
stats 5'5 231lbs

looks like you have been violating the sins of gluttony and sloth I wont be seeing you at the pearly gates either

Yeah, but I try to avoid them, lol. I ain't perfect, I still try to avoid them.

btw, are those a part of the 10 commandments? I can't remember, lol.


strong post count for a troll brah

LOL 51 posts per day.

x2

nonAtlas
06-04-2009, 10:55 PM
btw, are those a part of the 10 commandments? I can't remember, lol.



Only where "crucify the flesh" is concerned. Take a look at my "stats" too. ;)

stealth_swimmer
06-04-2009, 11:46 PM
Only where "crucify the flesh" is concerned. Take a look at my "stats" too. ;)

"crucify the flesh"?

heliskier131
06-04-2009, 11:49 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

I dont care what they believe... but what IF?

what if its all real?? They are ****ed, as are most of us anyway.

Jim Jitsu
06-04-2009, 11:53 PM
God doesn't call everyone to Him. Why would I question Him? The answer is I wouldn't. Read the bible a little more and it should straighten out exactly how you should approach that situation.

jimbob007
06-05-2009, 12:17 AM
Ok I love the way you assume that people live a selfish & immoral life, just because they do not choose to follow your faith.

How about religious people who spend their lives fleecing people out of money in God's name, those in the clergy who sexually abuse children in their care etc? But in your world as long as they swear their belief in God they can be forgiven & go to heaven, while people who live a decent moral life never doing these things or hurting anybody will go to hell?



Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

Tiffany Wantsmore
06-05-2009, 12:17 AM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

Why assume atheists are selfish and immoral? Is it because it's difficult for you to comprehend that people can still be nice people without the threat of punishment after death? That people can make their choices based on their own minds, not what they've been told to believe?

jake24
06-05-2009, 02:11 PM
But when I just ask him to say, "Hello, how are you doing?"

I don't get a damn thing from Him.

If you say that you do, well, tell me how you get anything out of God?First and foremost you expect God to answer you, while your hostile, and you don't even honor his holy name....I assure you god is real Jesus is who he claimed to be I know him personally, and he will answer you, but not in your state...Your spiritually dead, and God is a spirit, you have to be born of the spirit of God to know him....But first God said in his word that he resist the proud, but gives grace to the humble, if you want to know if God is real or not you actually have to obey him on his terms....You have to humbleyourself and repent of your sins, (look at the 10 commandments those are Gods holy law) you have broken them, you must bve willing to repent of all of your sins and deny yourself, you have to die to your will, and give him your whole life, and you must place your faith in Jesus Christ, and if you do that God promises to manifest himself to you, and reveal himself to you, you then will expereince a (born again expereince), where you will be born of the spirit of God and will be reconciled back to him, then you will know him, if only you would obey the gosepl no matter if you have doubts or not, then God will meet you there, you must approach god on his terms not yours. www.christiananswers.net

hooked4life
06-05-2009, 02:13 PM
First and foremost you expect God to answer you, while your hostile, and you don't even honor his holy name....I assure you god is real Jesus is who he claimed to be I know him personally, and he will answer you, but not in your state...Your spiritually dead, and God is a spirit, you have to be born of the spirit of God to know him....But first God said in his word that he resist the proud, but gives grace to the humble, if you want to know if God is real or not you actually have to obey him on his terms....You have to humbleyourself and repent of your sins, (look at the 10 commandments those are Gods holy law) you have broken them, you must bve willing to repent of all of your sins and deny yourself, you have to die to your will, and give him your whole life, and you must place your faith in Jesus Christ, and if you do that God promises to manifest himself to you, and reveal himself to you, you then will expereince a (born again expereince), where you will be born of the spirit of God and will be reconciled back to him, then you will know him, if only you would obey the gosepl no matter if you have doubts or not, then God will meet you there, you must approach god on his terms not yours. www.chrstiananswers.net

why don't you have a seat and talk to this nice man - tell him about your special friend ....

jake24
06-05-2009, 02:24 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god blessI do feel sorry for those who by there own foolisness send themselves to hell, but however for those who whose hatred is directed toward God, those who are foolish enough to mock, and curse the living God, and those who mock his followers, as alot of atheist here do, I have no sorrow for them, they will reap what they sow, as the scriptures says God will not be mocked!!....Those type of people bring harsh judgement upon there own heads.

jake24
06-05-2009, 02:34 PM
Good job having a good sense of humor and not being a defensive lil' bitch like some xtians!Such hatred, and atheist wonder why no one likes them, or respects them.

WilyCoder
06-05-2009, 02:43 PM
Why would Satan torture the evil people in hell?

Aren't those evil people his boys? Didn't they do his work on earth?

-George Carlin

Forge3
06-05-2009, 02:44 PM
About a week ago I experienced two things about God. I was up very late and I had a foretaste of God's children entering His kingdom. The foretaste of the joy of God at this moment brought me to tears. And I asked that I simply be part of this joy even if only for a moment. The second experience I had was the sorrow God experienced at the loss of one of His children and it was too hard to contain and I wept with the resolve of what could I do to help save even one of His lost sheep from being taken away by the wolves. It is a bit hard for me to type this right now.

Somehow people can choose to reject God despite everything and hell is a place that honors that free-will because God does not force Himself on others. There are somethings I don't understand about this vision. Like how can God have such extreme joy and sorrow at the same time. Yet His happiness for His children coming to Him and His sorrow for those who choose to side with the devil were very real to me. In the experience my feelings were connected with God's feelings in the matter. I rejoiced with God and wept with Him...

WilyCoder
06-05-2009, 02:44 PM
About a week ago I experienced two things about God. I was up very late and I had a foretaste of God's children entering His kingdom. The foretaste of the joy of God at this moment brought me to tears. And I asked that I simply be part of this joy even if only for a moment. The second experience I had was the sorrow God experienced at the loss of one of His children and it was too hard to contain and I wept with the resolve of what could I do to help save even one of His lost sheep from being taken away by the wolves. It is a bit hard for me to type this right now.

Somehow people can choose to reject God despite everything and hell is a place that honors that free-will because God does not force Himself on others. There are somethings I don't understand about this vision. Like how can God have such extreme joy and sorrow at the same time. Yet His happiness for His children coming to Him and His sorrow for those who choose to side with the devil were very real to me. In the experience my feelings were connected with God's feelings in the matter. I rejoiced with God and wept with Him...

How can it be free will if God only wants one answer?

Tommy2010
06-05-2009, 02:46 PM
"owned"? No, for His sacrifice for YOU was planned long before He came to earth and showed us the way to live. Satan and this earth (his kingdom) have "owned" you, my friend, but your anger makes you averse to learning anything that doesn't cater to the flesh. Here's to hoping you live long enough to see how silly your worldview is. As for the Word of God, it is the most true and up-to-date book around, and its perfection makes it 100% correct and proven so by science, archaeology, history and fulfilled prophecy.

Do a little reading and inform yourself. :)

It is up to date? Haha, don't think so...

It is 100 percent correct? So you really believe in Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve, Jonah and the whale, Daniel and the Lion's den, David and Goliath, Cane and Abel, and so many more!

Tommy2010
06-05-2009, 02:51 PM
First and foremost you expect God to answer you, while your hostile, and you don't even honor his holy name....I assure you god is real Jesus is who he claimed to be I know him personally, and he will answer you, but not in your state...Your spiritually dead, and God is a spirit, you have to be born of the spirit of God to know him....But first God said in his word that he resist the proud, but gives grace to the humble, if you want to know if God is real or not you actually have to obey him on his terms....You have to humbleyourself and repent of your sins, (look at the 10 commandments those are Gods holy law) you have broken them, you must bve willing to repent of all of your sins and deny yourself, you have to die to your will, and give him your whole life, and you must place your faith in Jesus Christ, and if you do that God promises to manifest himself to you, and reveal himself to you, you then will expereince a (born again expereince), where you will be born of the spirit of God and will be reconciled back to him, then you will know him, if only you would obey the gosepl no matter if you have doubts or not, then God will meet you there, you must approach god on his terms not yours. www.christiananswers.net
I am not being an ass here, but hear me out.

If God answered me in any kind of fashion, do you think I would believe in Him? Of course I would.

Tell me about the books of the Bible, because I am fascinated with Genesis. Whoever wrote Genesis obviously had a lot to write down, I was just wondering who told him this information?

I know you will say God, but you have to think that this guy must have gotten a cramp somewhere writing all that stuff down.

Did he ever tell God, "Listen, can you slow down just one second, I am still writing down that last verse you talked to me about."

jimbob007
06-05-2009, 02:57 PM
Let's see-

Hell- Porn stars, rock gods.

Heaven- Pious bible bashers, **** padres.

Not a difficult choice to make really.

Forge3
06-05-2009, 02:57 PM
How can it be free will if God only wants one answer?

:confused:

How many options are needed before it can become a matter of free-will? Logic dictates only two choices are necessary for it to be in the jurisdiction of free-will. We choose one or the other.


Although in His house there are many mansions so there may be many ways to approach but ultimately whether you are driving in a psychadelic painted van as a Jesus freak, or are a cardinal researching church doctrine and cannon law, or a monk washing toilets in the monastery and making cheese you have to choose God instead of rejecting...

WilyCoder
06-05-2009, 03:02 PM
:confused:

How many options are needed before it can become a matter of free-will? Logic dictates only two choices are necessary for it to be in the jurisdiction of free-will. We choose one or the other.

Although in His house there are many mansions so there may be many ways to approach but ultimately whether you are driving in a psychadelic painted van as a Jesus freak, or are a cardinal researching church doctrine and cannon law, or a monk washing toilets in the monastery and making cheese you have to choose God instead of rejecting...

I'm simply saying its not a true free will to me.

When you look at the choices : eternal damnation or eternal heaven, there really isn't a decision to be made.

What I would consider TRUE free will on the issue is if Christianity said any followers of God could enter heaven, regardless of religion. Or even better, everyone gets into heaven, life is just a dream.

Then you could truly choose to meet with God how you chose.

Forge3
06-05-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm simply saying its not a true free will to me.

When you look at the choices : eternal damnation or eternal heaven, there really isn't a decision to be made.

What I would consider TRUE free will on the issue is if Christianity said any followers of God could enter heaven, regardless of religion. Or even better, everyone gets into heaven, life is just a dream.

Then you could truly choose to meet with God how you chose.

People choose to smoke, drink and do all sorts of things that are not healthy. Is that not free-will? And do you think the world would be more "Right" if heroine users had physiques and health like champion athletes? All of our choices have consequences from the minor to the major. Now you choose to reject the source of your beingness, the love and grace which sustains you and that not have negative consequences? To seperate yourself from that is Hell though in this life at least you are given opportunity to make this decision.

But what is this hell you speak of:

Is it burning brimstone and horned devils poking you with pitchforks just as heaven is winged angels floating in clouds playing harps?

I say it is not so simple. Consider Heaven as much a state of being than any place. If you had the full love of God in your heart you would be just as happy (perhaps more) toiling in a leppers colony washing out their puss infected wounds than floating on clouds listen to angels jam celestial vibes.

Hell is also a state of being. Your own conscience condemns you. You live in a state of self loathing like a fire that eats away at your flesh with full knowledge you are separated from the source of happiness and peace. It is a place without hope or light and a loneliness that envelopes and consumes like worms consume the flesh in their graves.


But who would choose this place. Those that reject God and LOVE...very importantly LOVE evil/sin. It is their love of sin and conversely hatred of God that condemns them.


I don't see how many people that would fit such criteria though not believing in Jesus seems to be the deciding point of who gets door number one and who gets door number two. I am admittedly uncertain as to the not believing in Jesus and all the doctrine surrounding Him warrants such a state. God's children are extremely precious to Him. Even more so than man's greatest love on earth. So I still discern and ruminate this...

Tommy2010
06-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Hey Forge,

Everyone keeps PMing me calling me a troll and other stuff, but I am seriously not trying to do that sort of thing.

I am asking honest questions.

Here is another one of mine that has not been addressed in multiple threads.

I believe Moses is the author of Genesis. Did God really tell Moses what to write in the book? And, honestly, do you think he ever told God that he was tired from writing and maybe they could pick things up tomorrow morning?

Did he ever tell God to repeat anything or clarify a statement?

Tiffany Wantsmore
06-05-2009, 07:12 PM
Why would Satan torture the evil people in hell?

Aren't those evil people his boys? Didn't they do his work on earth?

-George Carlin

I asked a similar question on here a few days ago, which only got one answer, which was that Satan doesn't rule hell. I would appreciate more clarification on this too.


But who would choose this place. Those that reject God and LOVE...very importantly LOVE evil/sin. It is their love of sin and conversely hatred of God that condemns them.

What bugs me is this constant assumption that atheists love evil/sin. If you could only understand that you can be a good person and an atheist, you'd find it much easier to accept people. In fact, a good atheist is more moral than a good christian, as we are being good out of respect for other people rather than fear of an afterlife punishment.

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 08:01 PM
I asked a similar question on here a few days ago, which only got one answer, which was that Satan doesn't rule hell. I would appreciate more clarification on this too.



What bugs me is this constant assumption that atheists love evil/sin. If you could only understand that you can be a good person and an atheist, you'd find it much easier to accept people. In fact, a good atheist is more moral than a good christian, as we are being good out of respect for other people rather than fear of an afterlife punishment.

The majority of intellectual atheists, secular humanists, would argue that there is no such thing as morality, only codes of conduct that developed through the process of evolution to strengthen the chances of survival for humanity through group cohesion and solidarity.

Another ideology that is popular within the intellectual crowd of atheists is determinism, which would state that the only reason you are 'moral' is due to your genetics and environment, actually all of your behaviors, thoughts, and actions are attributed to past events and your biology, so you effectively have no choice in the matter.

Tommy2010
06-05-2009, 08:03 PM
Here is another one of mine that has not been addressed in multiple threads.

I believe Moses is the author of Genesis. Did God really tell Moses what to write in the book? And, honestly, do you think he ever told God that he was tired from writing and maybe they could pick things up tomorrow morning?

Did he ever tell God to repeat anything or clarify a statement?
Still no answers?

MantisShrimp
06-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Hell is a fundamentally stupid concept which appeals to the sensory primate (fear of incineration) in order to gain compliance.
If there is a real hell in Christianity, it is not seeing the true nature of god while you are alive.
I know a lot of people base Christianity around supplication (omg, I've sinned, nothing I can do to atone!) and that is why it persists.
Like a trojanned computer, beaconing and beaconing for acceptance.

Fact is, real men don't need fear to understand and internalize the spirit.
That is the difference between a saint, and a chode.

As a Pentecostal friend reminded me today, Christ is about love.
If you think fear is love, you are broken.

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 08:18 PM
Hell is a fundamentally stupid concept which appeals to the sensory primate (fear of incineration) in order to gain compliance.
If there is a real hell in Christianity, it is not seeing the true nature of god while you are alive.
I know a lot of people base Christianity around supplication (omg, I've sinned, nothing I can do to atone!) and that is why it persists.
Like a trojanned computer, beaconing and beaconing for acceptance.

Fact is, real men don't need fear to understand and internalize the spirit.
That is the difference between a saint, and a chode.

As a Pentecostal friend reminded me today, Christ is about love.
If you think fear is love, you are broken.

Christ is also about Justice and if you think that the Judge won't hold men accountable for their lives on earth, you are mistaken.

Tommy2010
06-05-2009, 08:28 PM
Christ is also about Justice and if you think that the Judge won't hold men accountable for their lives on earth, you are mistaken.

And what about those lives that never heard the good news of Christ?

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 08:34 PM
And what about those lives that never heard the good news of Christ?

An authoritative statement from the Church:

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

St. Paul, from his epistle to the Romans:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Forge3
06-05-2009, 08:43 PM
What bugs me is this constant assumption that atheists love evil/sin. If you could only understand that you can be a good person and an atheist, you'd find it much easier to accept people. In fact, a good atheist is more moral than a good christian, as we are being good out of respect for other people rather than fear of an afterlife punishment.

Ok then. Don't assume I think all atheists are evil/immoral and that my relationship with God is hinged on fear. Fear is the beginning of wisdom but love, which casts out all fear, is the end of wisdom. And I am no more moral than you because I live by my faith. I am just as much a sinner if not more...who knows. My salvation doesn't pinpoint my being a good person but rather pinpoints the love of God.

On the secular level people learn to behave and perceive through social conditioning. Conditioning on a deep level of survival, success, social acceptance, crime and punishment. How were we taught right and wrong when we grew up? We don't want to spend time in jail, or be estranged from people or risk financial ruin so within these frames we act with a knowing of what crossing clear boundaries yeilds. Most of us want positive outcomes and learn this in our own ways.

Hence I am not in a position to judge either way. Myself or yourself.

Skunk
06-05-2009, 09:04 PM
And what about those lives that never heard the good news of Christ?

According to Christian mythology, anybody who does not practice or know of the Christian myths and rituals goes to their Hell. Likewise, according to other various mythologies, Christian mystics will be going to these other various Hells. These baseless, meaningless faiths in immortality are just a typical method among religions to divide up those who are hopeful and lazy-minded in the matters of existance... fueling the collective urge within humans.

MantisShrimp
06-05-2009, 09:06 PM
Christ is also about Justice and if you think that the Judge won't hold men accountable for their lives on earth, you are mistaken.

I guess you and about 50 million other Americans find it exciting to be drawn to the dramatic trials of religious justice and the weirdly punitive side of Christian history, but sorry, I'm not there with you. My church predates this orgy of paranoia, so sad.

God is about love. In the beginning, the middle, and the end.
Justice is an irrelevant concept, subsumed by love. You either get it or you don't.

dun chavez
06-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Why would Satan torture the evil people in hell?

Aren't those evil people his boys? Didn't they do his work on earth?

-George Carlin


satan has no friends, he hates everyone, and wishes the worst for everyone.

MantisShrimp
06-05-2009, 09:09 PM
According to Christian mythology, anybody who does not practice or know of the Christian myths and rituals goes to their Hell. Likewise, according to other various mythologies, Christian mystics will be going to these other various Hells. These baseless, meaningless faiths in immortality are just a typical method among religions to divide up those who are hopeful and lazy-minded in the matters of existance... fueling the collective urge within humans.
Well if the people from one religion are serving time in the hell of the other religion, and the people of religion #2 are serving time in the hell of religion #1, which one is watching the stove to make sure my ****ing bacon isn't burning???????????

Skunk
06-05-2009, 09:11 PM
Well if the people from one religion are serving time in the hell of the other religion, and the people of religion #2 are serving time in the hell of religion #1, which one is watching the stove to make sure my ****ing bacon isn't burning???????????

The "government", aka the gods, are stealing your bacon. :D

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 09:11 PM
An authoritative statement from the Church:

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

St. Paul, from his epistle to the Romans:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


According to Christian mythology, anybody who does not practice or know of the Christian myths and rituals goes to their Hell. Likewise, according to other various mythologies, Christian mystics will be going to these other various Hells. These baseless, meaningless faiths in immortality are just a typical method among religions to divide up those who are hopeful and lazy-minded in the matters of existance... fueling the collective urge within humans.

^^Fundamental Atheism at it's finest

in before quotations from ...................http://atheism.about.com/od/isatheismdangerous/a/Fundamentalist.htm

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 09:13 PM
I guess you and about 50 million other Americans find it exciting to be drawn to the dramatic trials of religious justice and the weirdly punitive side of Christian history, but sorry, I'm not there with you. My church predates this orgy of paranoia, so sad.
Sad indeed, but not on my front.


God is about love. In the beginning, the middle, and the end.
Justice is an irrelevant concept, subsumed by love. You either get it or you don't.

Do you read the Bible at your church?

MantisShrimp
06-05-2009, 09:15 PM
The "government", aka the gods, are stealing your bacon. :D

Good lookin fish, btw. My gf would eat that bastard right up. Being on the forums I know the value of liking fish for EFA and protein but I can never get past that mineral like taste of coldwater fish like salmon or cod. It's rather annoying. Sushi is fantastic looking food, but I don't like scaly fish at all. Shellfish is ok, I love blue crab, scallop, *Shrimp*, can tolerate the blandness that is lobster, but regular fish is a no go. Maye I should meditate on it.

MantisShrimp
06-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Sad indeed, but not on my front.



Do you read the Bible at your church?
We wrote the bible, son
I am from the church of Antioch
You Americans are crazy.

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 09:24 PM
We wrote the bible, son
I am from the church of Antioch
You Americans are crazy.

yeahhhhhh

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/football501/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Skunk
06-05-2009, 09:31 PM
^^Fundamental Atheism at it's finest

What I was mentioning to Tommy about has very little to do with Atheism vs. Theism as you desire it to be, ONtop888. Assuming me to be a "fundamental atheist" further examplifies, along with your previous replies to me in other threads, that you have very little understanding of what I am discussing - which is entirely understandable too. People such as yourself (whether they be atheist or theist) haven't broadened their mind enough to grasp further aspects of reality, whether it be due to a grasp onto hope, to comfort, or simply because the environment of your perception has not developed further. It also doesn't help that I suck at explaining things, lol! In any case, please do not fall into the cracks of assumption - it's not healthy. :)


Good lookin fish, btw. My gf would eat that bastard right up. Being on the forums I know the value of liking fish for EFA and protein but I can never get past that mineral like taste of coldwater fish like salmon or cod. It's rather annoying. Sushi is fantastic looking food, but I don't like scaly fish at all. Shellfish is ok, I love blue crab, scallop, *Shrimp*, can tolerate the blandness that is lobster, but regular fish is a no go. Maye I should meditate on it.

Yeah, he put up a good fight too - which was great for my first smallmouth catch in two years. :D I'm mostly a catch and release fisherman myself though. I don't much like the taste of fish. Every once in a while I'll eat a sturgeon or catfish, but other than that I throw them back in for a battle on another day. :cool:

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 09:37 PM
What I was mentioning to Tommy about has very little to do with Atheism vs. Theism as you desire it to be, ONtop888. Assuming me to be a "fundamental atheist" further examplifies, along with your previous replies to me in other threads, that you have very little understanding of what I am discussing - which is entirely understandable too.
I'm not assuming anything about you, only calling out your incorrect definition of 'Christian Mythology', which is a standard fundie atheist move, very dogmatic Skunk.


People such as yourself (whether they be atheist or theist) haven't broadened their mind enough to grasp further aspects of reality, whether it be due to a grasp onto hope, to comfort, or simply because the environment of your perception has not developed further. It also doesn't help that I suck at explaining things, lol! In any case, please do not fall into the cracks of assumption - it's not healthy. :)

What do you consider further aspects of reality? Would believing in a strictly materialistic and deterministic ideology be an example of this?

Skunk
06-05-2009, 09:52 PM
I'm not assuming anything about you, only calling out your incorrect definition of 'Christian Mythology', which is a standard fundie atheist move, very dogmatic Skunk. What do you consider further aspects of reality? Would believing in a strictly materialistic and deterministic ideology be an example of this?

Incorrect, ONtop888. You are assuming me to be a "fundamental atheist" because you are setting your call before understanding why my words to Tommy were made. This is the level that your mind is at right now, further examplifying that you have very little understanding of what I am intending. You believe that it was an attack on your mythology, when in actuality it was not. Materialism and determinism has nothing to do with this either. You are clouded with assumptions.

ONtop888
06-05-2009, 09:58 PM
Incorrect, ONtop888. You are assuming me to be a "fundamental atheist" because you are setting your call before understanding why my words to Tommy were made. This is the level that your mind is at right now, further examplifying that you have very little understanding of what I am intending. You believe that it was an attack on your mythology, when in actuality it was not. Materialism and determinism has nothing to do with this either. You are clouded with assumptions.

You are clouded with bias. Your comment was a clear straw man and you used it to bolster support against Christianity, it was a tactic that stands on equal grounds with fundamental theists saying that all atheists are immoral and believe that Christians are stupid. Explain then, if you will, what exactly you were trying to convey to Tommy.

Sage21
06-05-2009, 10:02 PM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

This post is invalid. There is no such thing as "hell." Hell is a made up term, by the church, to scare the masses. Whoever believes in hell is just believing in a faerie tale, like the ones God told Paul to stay away from ;).

And yes OP, you are correct. Christians like putting themselves on pedestals and thinking they are some great being, who made the right choice. Makes me ashamed to call myself a christian.

Skunk
06-05-2009, 10:16 PM
You are clouded with bias. Your comment was a clear straw man and you used it to bolster support against Christianity, it was a tactic that stands on equal grounds with fundamental theists saying that all atheists are immoral and believe that Christians are stupid. Explain then, if you will, what exactly you were trying to convey to Tommy.

And you continue to assume.

Only you can make yourself think. I cannot push you to do it.

You can have the last word in this little conversation, ONtop888. I will comment now though: any subject content within it, if given towards me, will likely be another assumption given the percentage of your previous replies to me.

Goodnight fellow r/p'er. Until next time. :)

waytosmall
06-06-2009, 01:24 AM
Actually, there are scriptures that say what happens when we die. One goes something like, "From dust we were created, and dust we will return". The other, " For the living are conscience they will die, but the dead are conscience of nothing at all". So the bible tells us when your dead, your not going to hell, your just dead. Also one gods qualities is LOVE. Would it be loving of him to let people burn in hell for eternity? Not at all.

geeseman
06-06-2009, 02:39 AM
The majority of intellectual atheists, secular humanists, would argue that there is no such thing as morality, only codes of conduct that developed through the process of evolution to strengthen the chances of survival for humanity through group cohesion and solidarity.
That's right.



Another ideology that is popular within the intellectual crowd of atheists is determinism, which would state that the only reason you are 'moral' is due to your genetics and environment, actually all of your behaviors, thoughts, and actions are attributed to past events and your biology, so you effectively have no choice in the matter.
Determinism is not a part of the theory of evoluton, so it is not a popular belief among atheists.

geeseman
06-06-2009, 02:43 AM
About a week ago I experienced two things about God. I was up very late and I had a foretaste of God's children entering His kingdom.
I'm assuming you were stoned at this point.




Somehow people can choose to reject God despite everything and hell is a place that honors that free-will because God does not force Himself on others.

People reject god because they are rational. There is no evidence for the existence of god, so why believe in him? It's the same reason why people reject zeus, allah and all the other gods. None of them are real.

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 08:15 AM
People reject god because they are rational. There is no evidence for the existence of god, so why believe in him? It's the same reason why people reject zeus, allah and all the other gods. None of them are real.

I actually asked my Chrisitian theoology professor this very question in class this past semester. He became very blushed and told me to look it up, lol wut?

Forge3
06-06-2009, 08:53 AM
Good lookin fish, btw. My gf would eat that bastard right up. Being on the forums I know the value of liking fish for EFA and protein but I can never get past that mineral like taste of coldwater fish like salmon or cod. It's rather annoying. Sushi is fantastic looking food, but I don't like scaly fish at all. Shellfish is ok, I love blue crab, scallop, *Shrimp*, can tolerate the blandness that is lobster, but regular fish is a no go. Maye I should meditate on it.



Food for thought :p

Blindead
06-06-2009, 09:26 AM
Yeah, he put up a good fight too - which was great for my first smallmouth catch in two years. :D I'm mostly a catch and release fisherman myself though. I don't much like the taste of fish. Every once in a while I'll eat a sturgeon or catfish, but other than that I throw them back in for a battle on another day. :cool:

I've always varied on whether I eat them or throw them back...usually on location :D

New York - throw those nasty ****ers back in.

Florida - get the ice box!

I got some bass out of the Everglades once...marinated them for like a day...damn tasty.

My dad once caught a grouper half-drunk off the dock at our favorite bar/restaraunt, but he had to throw it back :( Law, I think. Those fawkers are DELICIOUS.

geeseman
06-06-2009, 03:39 PM
I actually asked my Chrisitian theoology professor this very question in class this past semester. He became very blushed and told me to look it up, lol wut?

Not surprised. No christian on this planet can answer that question with a rational answer.

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 08:42 PM
And what about those lives that never heard the good news of Christ?


An authoritative statement from the Church:

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

St. Paul, from his epistle to the Romans:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Tommy, you asked this question and I responded to it, but you never answered.........?

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 08:50 PM
Tommy, you asked this question and I responded to it, but you never answered.........?

Translate it for me so I do not misinterpret it. It is 2009, it needs to be updated.

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 08:59 PM
The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

St. Paul, from his epistle to the Romans:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


If someone in say Saudi Arabia or Iran (using your examples) tried to honestly pursue God and followed what their consciences told them was moral, but had not heard the Gospel of Christ, then salvation is open to them also.


**However, without Jesus there is no forgiveness, so in the afterlife they must suffer through the refining fire to expiate there sins and at that point will they there chance for salvation through Christ. (CATHOLIC VIEW)

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 09:06 PM
If someone in say Saudi Arabia or Iran (using your examples) tried to honestly pursue God and followed what their consciences told them was moral, but had not heard the Gospel of Christ, then salvation is open to them also.


**However, without Jesus there is no forgiveness, so in the afterlife they must suffer through the refining fire to expiate there sins and at that point will they there chance for salvation through Christ. (CATHOLIC VIEW)
No offense to you, because I know you didn't come up with this stuff...but that sounds pretty ****ed up.

Well I am trying to honestly pursue God...so you are saying salvation will be open to me?

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 09:09 PM
No offense to you, because I know you didn't come up with this stuff...but that sounds pretty ****ed up.
How so?


Well I am trying to honestly pursue God...so you are saying salvation will be open to me?

No, I'm not telling you that because I'm not God and I can't speculate on how He will handle your particular life. The only sure way to know that your fate is sealed in eternity is to make Jesus the Lord of your life, your Savior, and your Rock.

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 09:17 PM
How so?



No, I'm not telling you that because I'm not God and I can't speculate on how He will handle your particular life. The only sure way to know that your fate is sealed in eternity is to make Jesus the Lord of your life, your Savior, and your Rock.
It would have been so much easier to have lived when Jesus was living. Listen, if I saw Jesus raise a guy from the freaking dead or walk on water, then I would, without restraint, bow down to him and make him my rock and savior.

Why did they get that luxury and I do not?

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 09:26 PM
It would have been so much easier to have lived when Jesus was living. Listen, if I saw Jesus raise a guy from the freaking dead or walk on water, then I would, without restraint, bow down to him and make him my rock and savior.
I've thought that before, but I'm not so sure now. Jesus said "you sinful and adulterous generation, if I'd have performed even half the miracles I have done for you, then even Nineveh would have repented". The Jews were stuck in the rut of doing things there way for a long time, they refused to believe that Jesus was the Messiah because a) that would mean the disinigration of their power b) the complete and utter change of life as they know it on multiple levels. It's hard to go against the grain and the establishment in any time. Not many people would be willing to give up a lifestyle where they made lots of money, had lots of power, lots of good food, lots of hot girls....because they saw a man heal sickness or raise someone from the dead. The obvious skeptics would be skeptical, just as they were in His day...."that didn't really happen, he wasn't really dead, the healing was psychosomatic not supernatural....yada yada yada".

Why did they get that luxury and I do not?[/QUOTE]

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 09:30 PM
I asked Forge this question and this is when he grew a little quiet...not quite silent...but more quiet than usual.

Do you believe in the OT stories like Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, a talking snake in the Garden of Eden, David and Goliath, etc? Literally?

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 09:39 PM
I asked Forge this question and this is when he grew a little quiet...not quite silent...but more quiet than usual.

Do you believe in the OT stories like Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, a talking snake in the Garden of Eden, David and Goliath, etc? Literally?

I'm still evaluating and learning everything myself on how to interpret everything in Genesis/Revelation. I've just started (today) reading Pope Benedict's book "In the Beginning", where he explains the allegory and poetic literary devices used in Genesis. For instance, the snake in ancient days was a symbol of Wisdom and God. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is obvious allegory. There's much much more, but I do believe that Adam and Eve were literal people, but Moses told their story in a way to communicate how God estabished His relationship with us in the beginning, established a 7 day week, rest on the sabbath, used holy numbers repeatedly, 3, 7, 10...etc.

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm still evaluating and learning everything myself on how to interpret everything in Genesis/Revelation. I've just started (today) reading Pope Benedict's book "In the Beginning", where he explains the allegory and poetic literary devices used in Genesis. For instance, the snake in ancient days was a symbol of Wisdom and God. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is obvious allegory. There's much much more, but I do believe that Adam and Eve were literal people, but Moses told their story in a way to communicate how God estabished His relationship with us in the beginning, established a 7 day week, rest on the sabbath, used holy numbers repeatedly, 3, 7, 10...etc.

So is it ok if I interpret Jesus' resurrection as one of symbolism?

See, I interpret all of these OT events as parable-genre...lessons are learned..etc

I do the same with Christ on the cross, very symbolic; rising from the dead, very symbolic too.

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 09:58 PM
So you think the Earth is around 6000 years old, then?

4.5 billion years, rouuuuuughly

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 10:01 PM
What allows you to decide what is symbolism in the bible and what is literal?

Exactly!!!!! Any takers?

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:02 PM
So is it ok if I interpret Jesus' resurrection as one of symbolism?

See, I interpret all of these OT events as parable-genre...lessons are learned..etc

I do the same with Christ on the cross, very symbolic; rising from the dead, very symbolic too.


Witinesses in the Bible and the Church Fathers' have attested to the fact that Jesus' death and Resurrection were physical, not symbolic. 7 headed dragons, 7 churches, 7 days of the week, 2 trees, 2 messengers.............these are symbolic/allegorical expressions, used to convey a deeper message.

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Witinesses in the Bible and the Church Fathers' have attested to the fact that Jesus' death and Resurrection were physical, not symbolic. 7 headed dragons, 7 churches, 7 days of the week, 2 trees, 2 messengers.............these are symbolic/allegorical expressions, used to convey a deeper message.

So how do you explain Noah's ark? Noah never existed? His family was witnesses to the flood!

Don't say you believe in the flood, because Forge said it was IMPOSSIBLE.

So watch what you say. Be careful!

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
But you also believe Genesis is literal?

Not entirely, I think progressive revelation and an indepth study of the historical context of the text, church fathers' writings and science is key to understanding what is literal and what is not./

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:07 PM
So how do you explain Noah's ark? Noah never existed? His family was witnesses to the flood!

Don't say you believe in the flood, because Forge said it was IMPOSSIBLE.

So watch what you say. Be careful!

I don;t need to watch what I say, but thanks for the warning. I do believe in the Flood, but not that it was locality, the AME region, not univeral in scope. The geological strata attests that the Flood wasn't universal, Babylonian literature (GIlgamesh Epic) tells of a massive flood in the same time period and general region.

Tommy2010
06-06-2009, 10:10 PM
I don;t need to watch what I say, but thanks for the warning. I do believe in the Flood, but not that it was locality, the AME region, not univeral in scope. The geological strata attests that the Flood wasn't universal, Babylonian literature (GIlgamesh Epic) tells of a massive flood in the same time period and general region.
Yes you do. And you are welcome. I am warning you again to choose your words carefully.

Forge said he did not believe in it. He did extensive study on it he said.

So you need to get together with him and get a gameplan going on what to say next.

I am going to bed. Be sure to say your prayers for tonight! Your prayer request for a new car might come true and change God's divine plan for mankind!!

Good night.

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:13 PM
Why should "church fathers" writing matter? Aren't they just fallible humans? How can you be sure what they are saying is true?
Yes, they are fallible humans, but they are intelligent, Spirit filled men, who devoted their lives to studying the Word of God, this alone makes their opinions worthy of consideration.


Wouldn't it make more sense just to trust the Bible?
Who;s interpretation? The Bible says to also trust tradition, that's why the Magisterium is the authority for me on matters of faith.


Why would you second guess the word of God? I'm not


And as far as science goes...the Bible isn't exactly that big on it.

St. Aquinas said (paraphrasing) "don't use foolish interpretations and methods when science tells you that they aren't true, you only mock what God is revealing to you".

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Doesn't the Bible say it was a worldwide flood? If the Bible says it was a worldwide flood, why don't you believe it?
To the men of that day, it killed their civilization, animals, houses, towns, etc. To them, it was the world. Keeping things in context is crucial in an exegesis of anything.



Is it possibly because you're willing to sacrifice some things in the Bible to logic and reason to satisfy that part of your nature, but you desperately want your religion to be true, so you believe in the important parts like Jesus and heaven and stuff?

It's possible, but not the case. I'm interested in all apsects of God's work, creation, human history. I'm trying to understand it all better, not re-affirm or positively enforce my faith, although learning more about God always has that effect.

ONtop888
06-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Go look in the other thread, I asked you a question that you have yet to respond to.

I responded.

geeseman
06-07-2009, 03:29 AM
I'm interested in all apsects of God's work, creation, human history. I'm trying to understand it all better, not re-affirm or positively enforce my faith, although learning more about God always has that effect.

Do you know that there is no evidence of any form of creation anywhere on this planet, or in the universe for that matter.


How is it that you dismiss genesis as not being the litteral truth and other parts of the bible as being the litteral truth? Are you not picking and chosing what to believe? If not why?

nickk
06-07-2009, 04:41 AM
Im just curious what the people of christian faith feel about people who havent accepted Jesus in their lives. Its very obvious to me and most of my friends that these people are doomed to an eternity in hell. It says so in the bible and you cannot dispute the word of god. Personally I dont feel sorry for them since they have their chance to accept jesus into their lives but choose eternal damnation instead and live a selfish immoral life.

atheists/agnostics/other religions: please dont troll in here this question is aimed at people of faith and not others

thanks and god bless

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mangiventofly
06-07-2009, 06:02 AM
"If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon 1834-1892

yes. we Christians should care about people going to hell. if we are to follow God's commands, we MUST care. love your neighbor as yourself.

jimbob007
06-07-2009, 06:29 AM
Depends how hot she is.


love your neighbor

Tommy2010
06-07-2009, 09:06 AM
To the men of that day, it killed their civilization, animals, houses, towns, etc. To them, it was the world. Keeping things in context is crucial in an exegesis of anything.
You are saying then that Noah and his family may not have been the only human survivors? Since it was not global, there might have still been people that survived?

If this is the case, God did not cleanse the world like he said he would?