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View Full Version : bulking question, clean / dirty does it matter?



JQnguyen
04-02-2009, 12:43 PM
if im tryin 2 add mass does it matter if i get it from bad foods too. just as long as i hit what i need nd get enough protein / carbs / healthy fats?

ie
3,500 calories (ice creme, pb, white rice, steak, wwbread, eggs, mcdonalds, jamba juice, fruits, plus some frozen nd junk food)

i use 2 think i have 2 eat clean to gain with little fat, but as the more i read its juss about calories nd macros.

dirtyeggroll
04-02-2009, 12:46 PM
just try to get ur protein, efa's, vitamins and minerals

bah01001
04-02-2009, 12:48 PM
Yes it does matter

1000 calories of candy does not equal 1000 calories of lean steak...


If you want to keep your fat down to a minimum and not have to work 100 times harder when you decide to drop the weight, keep it clean

cyde
04-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Sounds like a winner. Make sure to get a good balance of foods in there, and don't think twice about snarfing down that cheese burger or pizza. If you're consuming just enough calories, not overly excessive, you'll put on some good mass.

JQnguyen
04-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Yes it does matter

1000 calories of candy does not equal 1000 calories of lean steak...


If you want to keep your fat down to a minimum and not have to work 100 times harder when you decide to drop the weight, keep it clean

that's abad comparison,

1k cal of candy = 1k cal of carbs = 1k cal of rice.

isn't that how it works. i know as long as i get in my 40/40/20.

KoolDrew
04-02-2009, 12:53 PM
i use 2 think i have 2 eat clean to gain with little fat, but as the more i read its juss about calories nd macros.

Exactly. The key to minimizing fat gains is keeping the surplus under control.

bah01001
04-02-2009, 12:58 PM
that's abad comparison,

1k cal of candy = 1k cal of carbs = 1k cal of rice.

isn't that how it works. i know as long as i get in my 40/40/20.

1000 cals of steak is a lot more nutrient dense than a 1000 cals of candy...I didn't mean it in the literal sense...

why would you want to dirty bulk anyway? It's just an excuse to get fat....you will have to cut longer and cutting blows...and since you will be cutting for a longer time, you are more likely to lose more muscle


Take a look at this article from T-Nation

http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html


Might shed some light for you

cyde
04-02-2009, 01:00 PM
1000 cals of steak is a lot more nutrient dense than a 1000 cals of candy...I didn't mean it in the literal sense...

why would you want to dirty bulk anyway? It's just an excuse to get fat....you will have to cut longer and cutting blows...and since you will be cutting for a longer time, you are more likely to lose more muscle


Take a look at this article from T-Nation

http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html


Might shed some light for you

The only reason "dirty bulks" fail and people gain unwanted fat is because they are OVEREATING. This guy is counting down calories & mixing junk food with wholesome food.

And I'd hardly call T-Nation a creditable source of information.

LatinoMusculito
04-02-2009, 01:10 PM
It's better to eat clean because you get to eat MORE. 3500 calories of clean food is a lot to take in, so it's actually hard to over-eat when you eat clean.

3500 cals of eating 'dirty' is 'easier' than 3500 cals of 'clean', so you are more likely to go over your needs and gain dirty fat, not to mention that your body doesn't perform at ideal levels.

Fuk the candy. I'd rather down 150g of sweet potato and have a good work-out, than eating 150g of sour peaches.

jerryiii
04-02-2009, 01:45 PM
The quality of the food you eat has more to do with your overall health. I definitely would not advocate eating junk. You may reach your goals, but you're also risking your general health. Some people can tolerate junk food more than others. This also tends to change with age.

sunngodd
04-02-2009, 01:57 PM
nope, long has your junk food calories don't (a) cause you to eat too many cals for the day or (b) cause you to have no room left to get your essential nutrition for the day, then you're good

ph0en1x22
04-02-2009, 01:58 PM
keep it clean.... 3500 cals in pizzas aint gonna get u far

dimasso69
04-02-2009, 02:04 PM
Dirty bulks are not eating junk food it's eating a calorie surplus that's not controlled..if u eat 300-500cals over maitinence for example and hit ur protein goal..u will not gain much fat even eating a chocolate bar a day that's fats+carbs=energy

dimasso69
04-02-2009, 02:08 PM
keep it clean.... 3500 cals in pizzas aint gonna get u far

what's with all of the extremes
if he eats 200g protein a day and eats the rest from pizza totaling 3500cals
..why wont it get him any better results than eating 3500cals of "clean" foods if it's the same amount of calories...find me some evidence please..

eddiebo
04-02-2009, 02:13 PM
1k cal of candy = 1k cal of carbs = 1k cal of rice.

isn't that how it works. i know as long as i get in my 40/40/20.

Not exactly. I think most will agree the rapid blood sugar increase and decreases from too much refined sugar is not the healthiest thing to do to ones body.

Complex, slowly absorbing carbs are much more valuable from a fuel and health standpoint.

dimasso69
04-02-2009, 02:15 PM
Not exactly. I think most will agree the rapid blood sugar increase and decreases from too much refined sugar is not the healthiest thing to do to ones body.

Complex, slowly absorbing carbs are much more valuable from a fuel and health standpoint.

health standpoint is not the argument though, i 100% agree healthwise junk food has no purpose..but in terms of bulking up and gaining muscle mass..it wont make a difference

Bedwards
04-02-2009, 02:15 PM
keep it clean.... 3500 cals in pizzas aint gonna get u far

Hmmm... Explain. I'm dieting down at the moment, and I've lost 22 lb. I'm currently 9% bodyfat. I eat a full pizza at least twice a week (not my "cheat day"), and I fit it into my macros. Oh... I also frequently eat Brownie Earthquakes and Banana Splits from Dairy Queen. I eat M&M's, chocolate pretzels and chocolate almonds too. I don't know about you, but I'd say "I've gotten pretty far" eating what I want.

sunngodd
04-02-2009, 02:18 PM
Not exactly. I think most will agree the rapid blood sugar increase and decreases from too much refined sugar is not the healthiest thing to do to ones body.

Complex, slowly absorbing carbs are much more valuable from a fuel and health standpoint.

the OP added the caveat that he's getting ample nutrition for the day

eddiebo
04-02-2009, 02:33 PM
health standpoint is not the argument though, i 100% agree healthwise junk food has no purpose..but in terms of bulking up and gaining muscle mass..it wont make a difference

My understanding is high levels of sugar will promote fat gain , so bulking up yes, muscle gain probably not.

I wonder if one could get get a reverse liposuction as of yet. There has to be a doctor somewhere that will do it.

conwaylucas
04-02-2009, 02:48 PM
In moderation, you will be fine. I fit mcdonalds and taco bell into my macros during some days and it seems to be fine. Overall health may go down a little but it should not effect your diet progress.

eddiebo
04-02-2009, 02:56 PM
the OP added the caveat that he's getting ample nutrition for the day

That shouldn't matter with what I said, or am i missing something.

theGunner
04-02-2009, 03:00 PM
health standpoint is not the argument though, i 100% agree healthwise junk food has no purpose..but in terms of bulking up and gaining muscle mass..it wont make a difference

this is what a 16 year old who's probably never taken a physiology would believe, are you honestly saying that you will gain the same mass composition eating 1000 cals of burgers/pizza as you would lean turkey breast?

the rebuilding of muscles, hell your body in general is a complex process, to properly equip the body with clean foods (good bcaas, clean carbs, etc.) vs. bombarding it with foods that cause ridiculous insulin spikes WILL make a difference in the type of mass you gain... please stop with your broscience, you ain't even a bro yet

Bedwards
04-02-2009, 03:29 PM
this is what a 16 year old who's probably never taken a physiology would believe, are you honestly saying that you will gain the same mass composition eating 1000 cals of burgers/pizza as you would lean turkey breast?

the rebuilding of muscles, hell your body in general is a complex process, to properly equip the body with clean foods (good bcaas, clean carbs, etc.) vs. bombarding it with foods that cause ridiculous insulin spikes WILL make a difference in the type of mass you gain... please stop with your broscience, you ain't even a bro yet

You can't compare 1000 calories of burgers or pizza to 1000 calories of lean turkey breast. The burgers or pizza will contain carbohydrates and fats, alongside the protein. The lean turkey breast is basically 100% protein. Make a better comparison, such as:

100 g carbohydrates from brown rice = 100 g carbohydrates from sugar.

In terms of BODY COMPOSITION, it won't make a difference. In terms of HEALTH and NUTRIENT CONTENT, the brown rice will yield greater benefit.

frank8880
04-02-2009, 04:30 PM
You can't compare 1000 calories of burgers or pizza to 1000 calories of lean turkey breast. The burgers or pizza will contain carbohydrates and fats, alongside the protein. The lean turkey breast is basically 100% protein. Make a better comparison, such as:

100 g carbohydrates from brown rice = 100 g carbohydrates from sugar.

In terms of BODY COMPOSITION, it won't make a difference. In terms of HEALTH and NUTRIENT CONTENT, the brown rice will yield greater benefit.

holy shiat!, comparing 100g of rice to 100g of sugar, strong BROSCIENCE going on here, here we go :)..... insulin in the sky

frank8880
04-02-2009, 04:31 PM
You can't compare 1000 calories of burgers or pizza to 1000 calories of lean turkey breast. The burgers or pizza will contain carbohydrates and fats, alongside the protein. The lean turkey breast is basically 100% protein. Make a better comparison, such as:

100 g carbohydrates from brown rice = 100 g carbohydrates from sugar.

In terms of BODY COMPOSITION, it won't make a difference. In terms of HEALTH and NUTRIENT CONTENT, the brown rice will yield greater benefit.

sorry for double posting but just another post, have you ever heard of G.I.? :)

xl Achilles lx
04-02-2009, 04:40 PM
It's better to eat clean because you get to eat MORE. 3500 calories of clean food is a lot to take in, so it's actually hard to over-eat when you eat clean.

Not really. There are plenty of "clean foods" that are calorie dense. Just because a certain food is calorie dense, that doesn't automatically make it "dirty." Dirty/clean is in the eye of the beholder.

frank8880
04-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Not really. There are plenty of "clean foods" that are calorie dense. Just because a certain food is calorie dense, that doesn't automatically make it "dirty." Dirty/clean is in the eye of the beholder.

exactly, the term should be nutrient dense, junk food are just bad fats and high G.I. carbs.... quality food = clean calories = clean carbs *low g.i.*, good fats, high protein, etc.

xl Achilles lx
04-02-2009, 04:50 PM
exactly, the term should be nutrient dense, junk food are just bad fats and high G.I. carbs.... quality food = clean calories = clean carbs *low g.i.*, good fats, high protein, etc.

Bad fats? High G.I. carbs? The G.I. is flawed, and unless the food you're consuming is loaded with transfats, I don't see how you can assume that all junk food is loaded with "bad fats."

stevescholes
04-02-2009, 05:09 PM
The number of calories that you consume daily will determine whether you gain weight or lose weight while the types of calories that you consume will determine whether you gain fat or muscle / lose fat or muscle. Clean is mean.

man0war
04-02-2009, 05:18 PM
this is what a 16 year old who's probably never taken a physiology would believe, are you honestly saying that you will gain the same mass composition eating 1000 cals of burgers/pizza as you would lean turkey breast?

the rebuilding of muscles, hell your body in general is a complex process, to properly equip the body with clean foods (good bcaas, clean carbs, etc.) vs. bombarding it with foods that cause ridiculous insulin spikes WILL make a difference in the type of mass you gain... please stop with your broscience, you ain't even a bro yet

:D :D the type of mass you gain :D
Dude don't pick on the 16 year old he made a very decent comment, about the ONLY one anyone should make around here , and that is

Same calories and macronutrient ratios considered , you'll get quite surely the same results. And as far as I understood, the op was about mixing both decent food and fast food. I'm sure < NOBODY > bulks 100% only on McDonalds since you'll have too much fats to fill up your ratios in the calorie limit.

Anyone seen Markus Ruhl - Made in Germany ? The part where they talk about what his offseason is like , the main thing is a 100% packed dish from Burger King. I know it's not the best example since that guy is huge and probably couldn't actually EAT all his calories from decent food, but the idea is still the same, you can definitely mix it up easily if you still want a good bulk.

Hostage
04-02-2009, 05:31 PM
And I'd hardly call T-Nation a creditable source of information.

Why?

Chicago1287
04-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Here's what I believe....

If your young and trying to live your damn life, eat "dirty." Just make sure you are getting the proper amount of protein, and not going too high on the calories from your "dirty" meals.

Personally, what I would do is maybe have 1 dirty meal a day (try to plan ahead) and figure out what the rest of my clean meals should be to make sure that the calories aren't too high. This way at least you aren't killing your body with unhealthy **** by eating dirty all day, AND you're still keeping you calories in check so you don't turn into a fatass.

Cause honestly, when it comes to body composition, I believe the biggest reason people get fat is cause they only pay attention to their protein intake, and not keep track of the fats and carbs. The calories from fats and carbs add up QUICK. I made this mistake when I started lifting.

jvaughan08
04-02-2009, 05:34 PM
ya determining what is dirty and clean has been at the base of this on other forums

frank8880
04-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Bad fats? High G.I. carbs? The G.I. is flawed, and unless the food you're consuming is loaded with transfats, I don't see how you can assume that all junk food is loaded with "bad fats."

apart from trans, it's called saturated fats

Money Shot
04-02-2009, 06:48 PM
ive fallen victim to dirty bulking (like 4 cheats a week but binging) and I have had to work my ass off so hard to get back. I have to be honest though, when I was starting out and didnt know **** about nutrition, I ate like 5k-6k calories a day on average and it definitely helped. i just had to bust my ass and learn nutrition and cut it off perfectly