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View Full Version : What are your thoughts on alternative "healer" types?



The_Reaper
02-13-2009, 09:47 AM
You know, the guys who supposedly can use their hands to fix f*cked up problems with your bones and so on.

Does any of that **** work, in your opinion? Is it all a placebo effect?

El Gilbro
02-13-2009, 09:50 AM
You know, the guys who supposedly can use their hands to fix f*cked up problems with your bones and so on.

Does any of that **** work, in your opinion? Is it all a placebo effect?
I don't buy the Mr.-Miyagi-fixing-broken-bones-and-****-with-his-hands stuff, but I have benefitted from some of the voodoo stuff dealing with allergies, sinus problems, and sleeping issues. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or not, but it helps me either way.

Steak_n_Taters
02-13-2009, 09:51 AM
I think that if they do help, it's probably more psychological than anything.

Sort of like how people get "cured" when they don't know they've been taking a placebo all along.

Barry Bonds
02-13-2009, 10:07 AM
I'd say it's probably not going to work. In some cases, yes.

My chiroprator dabbles in some of that stuff. A lady came in for an adjustment with a baby who had a fever. A doctor had prescribed a med for the baby's fever that wasn't working very well.

The doc made a small adjustment on the baby's spine and the baby's (3-6 months) fever went away completely 1n 15 minutes.

The_Reaper
02-13-2009, 10:14 AM
I'd say it's probably not going to work. In some cases, yes.

My chiroprator dabbles in some of that stuff. A lady came in for an adjustment with a baby who had a fever. A doctor had prescribed a med for the baby's fever that wasn't working very well.

The doc made a small adjustment on the baby's spine and the baby's (3-6 months) fever went away completely 1n 15 minutes.

For what reasons would you think this works?

Illiad
02-13-2009, 10:37 AM
Acupuncture is a prime example of what is considered alternative medicine yet it is one of the oldest and most celebrated healing techniques ever used. The Chinese have sworn by it for centuries so there is no doubt that it works.

The philosophy beind acupuncture and other healing practices is very interesting. It's really a fascinating way to view the human body.

tenthirtytwo
02-13-2009, 10:53 AM
Very likely placebo effect. Most of the proponents of "alternative medicine" are also people who call the general medical establishment nonsense, and refuse to partipate in credible studies and research.

wrathofhan
02-13-2009, 10:56 AM
I find it bull, but it does not keep me away from traditional Chinese herbal medicines, some just taste good.

Illiad
02-13-2009, 11:03 AM
Very likely placebo effect. Most of the proponents of "alternative medicine" are also people who call the general medical establishment nonsense, and refuse to partipate in credible studies and research.

It's no different than the general medical establishment's opinion of "alternative medicine" as nonsense. The reason so called proponents refuse to participate in studies and research is because none of the research funding is going towards possible breakthrough concepts they believe in. The general medical community is more concerned with spinning it's wheels in the dirt and maintaining the status quo.

More money is being spent to fund research for plastic surgery than for revolutionary ideas based on the same view of the human body that most great alternative healers use on a daily basis.

tenthirtytwo
02-13-2009, 11:06 AM
The reason so called proponents refuse to participate in studies and research is because none of the research funding is going towards possibly breakthrough concepts.

Very convenient, since it allows them to sell a product designed to treat a variety of illnesses, some severe and/or deadly, with no research whatsoever.

I suggest that another reason might be that no real treatment is going on, and an actual, credible study would reveal that, and thereby reduce the monetary income of alternative practitioners of that particular brand of voodoo to zero.

What can I say, I'm a cynic.

cjh156
02-13-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't think all alternative medicine methods are the equal. Some have shown to be effective( ie acupunture and some eastern medicine) and some are little to out out there and open for abuse by con men, like the laying of hands.

Illiad
02-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Very convenient, since it allows them to sell a product designed to treat a variety of illnesses, some severe and/or deadly, with no research whatsoever.

I suggest that another reason might be that no real treatment is going on, and an actual, credible study would reveal that, and thereby reduce the monetary income of alternative practitioners of that particular brand of voodoo to zero.

What can I say, I'm a cynic.

Then why haven't they done an actual, credible study to reveal this?

Seems like a logical thing to do to kill the competition once and for all, but it hasn't happened, and it never will happen because these things work.

NotStandingBy
02-13-2009, 11:13 AM
Acupuncture is a prime example of what is considered alternative medicine yet it is one of the oldest and most celebrated healing techniques ever used. The Chinese have sworn by it for centuries so there is no doubt that it works.

The philosophy beind acupuncture and other healing practices is very interesting. It's really a fascinating way to view the human body.

You clearly haven't read any of my threads or posts.

As an Asian with relative and best friend's relative in this business - it does not work.

We do not "swear" by it for centuries. That's insulting on so many levels.

NotStandingBy
02-13-2009, 11:14 AM
Then why haven't they done an actual, credible study to reveal this?

Seems like a logical thing to do to kill the competition once and for all, but it hasn't happened, and it never will happen because these things work.

Lots of actual credible study have been done on acupuncture.

Illiad
02-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Lots of actual credible study have been done on acupuncture.

Who said I was talking about just acupuncture? There are numerous different techniques I was referring to.

And by the way, just because you're Asian dosen't mean you speak for the entire Asian population. You're not the only person in the world that knows Asian people.

tenthirtytwo
02-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Then why haven't they done an actual, credible study to reveal this?

Seems like a logical thing to do to kill the competition once and for all, but it hasn't happened, and it never will happen because these things work.

Why hasn't the medical establishment paid to run tests on alternative medicine? I can think of a few reasons.

One is that it isn't their responsibility.

Two is that it could be dangerous to test these things.

Three is that the volume of tests required would be outrageous, in order to disprove every quack notion out there.

Fourth, and probably most important, is that no alternative medicine practitioner would accept the testing done by the medical establishment anyway.

The reason that people like this, and others like psychics, telepathists, fortune tellers, etc. don't want tests is that it doesn't benefit them. The only real possibility would be that they lose all credibility, and again, their income.

The_Reaper
02-13-2009, 11:29 AM
You clearly haven't read any of my threads or posts.

As an Asian with relative and best friend's relative in this business - it does not work.

We do not "swear" by it for centuries. That's insulting on so many levels.


Wow, strong pwnage.

War Machine
02-13-2009, 11:31 AM
For reasons would you think this works?

Chiropractic theory is akin to a wad of wires....


Ok....think about the nerves in your body...they work by transmitting electrical impulses. Now imagine something like a rock concert. You have wired for the lights, the speakers, the instruments, the pyro, ect. Now all those wires feed into one big string of wires that go to transformer.

Well, the nerves in your body are like those wires for the concert times 1000.

The basic theory is that occationally there are shorts/opens/mis-fires in the nerves ("wiring"). The spine is literally the nerve center. The chiroprator checks you out, does X-rays, and determines where your shorts/opens/mis-fire is. He them adjust the area to try to get things right.

Clear as mud, I know...hopefully understandable though.

Shortfuze
02-13-2009, 11:34 AM
Traditional alternative medicines and treatments exist in all societies and cultures and have been used for thousands of years. They still hold their place and are frequently used as alternate therapies with mixed success. Some swear by them, and some dismiss it as quackery. Either way, the keyword here is alternative...many people resort to alternative medicines as their last resort when all else have failed.

El Gilbro
02-13-2009, 11:34 AM
There are tests on some things that "disprove their effectiveness". Everytime I tell somebody that I get my ears candled, they say "OMG!!! That stuff doesn't work and it actually hurts you". Then links to a bunch of articles are e-mailed to me, etc. I read all the stuff that says it doesn't work, watched the exposee's on tv, etc.

But the thing is....everytime I have it done, it alleviates the pain/pressure that caused me to seek it out. My sinuses feel more open, my head feels lighter, and afterwards I can't feel the fluid that had built up in my ears or the weird feeling that radiates down my jaw that tells me "it's time to get your ears candled".

One of the downfalls listed in almost every article that "disproves" it is that if it really could remove wax, etc. that it would remove the good wax and lead to more frequent infections.....but I used to get ear/sinus infections numerous times a year and when I started getting my ears candled, the infections stopped. I can feel when the fluid is starting to build up and if I let it go for a day or two, I get an ear or sinus infection. If I have my ears candled when I feel that fluid, I don't ever get an infection.

Placebo? Voodoo? Nonsense? If so, I'm not complaining. It does the job for me.

hublife
02-13-2009, 11:35 AM
I'd say it's probably not going to work. In some cases, yes.

My chiropractor dabbles in some of that stuff. A lady came in for an adjustment with a baby who had a fever. A doctor had prescribed a med for the baby's fever that wasn't working very well.

The doc made a small adjustment on the baby's spine and the baby's (3-6 months) fever went away completely 1n 15 minutes.

I think these guys are the biggest rip off known to man kind.

Barry Bonds
02-13-2009, 11:45 AM
"placebo" an infant's temp into going down?

I don't think so....

tenthirtytwo
02-13-2009, 11:47 AM
"placebo" an infant's temp into going down?

I don't think so....

Yesterday I had a 6 inch gash on my arm. I put some Comet cleaner on it, and woke up this morning and it is completely healed. Not even a scar.

Did the comet "placebo" my arm into healing? I don't think so.

This is why you need studies, my friend.

NotStandingBy
02-13-2009, 11:59 AM
Who said I was talking about just acupuncture? There are numerous different techniques I was referring to.

And by the way, just because you're Asian dosen't mean you speak for the entire Asian population. You're not the only person in the world that knows Asian people.

Because you brought up acupuncture.

But I'm actually Asian. And I'm an immigrant to boot. I'm not American-born who read books about China. I actually lived there for a period of time. I've known plenty of people who laugh at acupuncture and go "you believe that ****?" in Chinese. Trust me, I believed it when I was little too. Especially as a Dragon Ball Z fan.

Edit: Placebo plays an extremely big role in TCM in case you are going to bring that up.

Illiad
02-14-2009, 10:42 AM
Because you brought up acupuncture.

But I'm actually Asian. And I'm an immigrant to boot. I'm not American-born who read books about China. I actually lived there for a period of time. I've known plenty of people who laugh at acupuncture and go "you believe that ****?" in Chinese. Trust me, I believed it when I was little too. Especially as a Dragon Ball Z fan.

Edit: Placebo plays an extremely big role in TCM in case you are going to bring that up.

So you're entitled to your opinion. I still don't understand why you think your opinion is more valuable simply because you are Chinese. Being Chinese with family members in the business dosen't make you an expert and it dosen't give you the last word on the topic. Nice try with the race card though.

Since you know so much, then why don't you tell me exactly why it dosen't work?

mehdi84
02-14-2009, 10:47 AM
Alt healers usually don't know how to play their class. Unless it's their main, you are almost sure to wipe. Then again, this is assuming the instance you are doing isn't on farm status.

ElHombre
02-14-2009, 12:59 PM
Lots of actual credible study have been done on acupuncture.

a paper published this past year showed that acupuncture is simply a placebo effect. randomly sticking needles into people showed the same effect.