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bird72
02-13-2009, 05:28 AM
Female bomber kills 32 on Iraqi pilgrimage route

By Wisam Mohammed and Sami al-Jumaili Wisam Mohammed And Sami Al-jumaili
2 hrs 3 mins ago

KERBALA, Iraq (Reuters) ? A female suicide bomber killed 32 people and wounded 84 others south of Baghdad on Friday when she blew herself up on a major Shi'ite religious pilgrimage route, police said.

The attack in Iskandariya, 40 km (25 miles) south of the capital, came a day after a bomb killed eight people in the Shi'ite holy city of Kerbala, to which hundreds of thousands of pilgrims were headed to commemorate Arbain.

The Arbain rite is one of the most important events in the Shi'ite religious calendar, and marks the end of a mourning period after the anniversary of the death in the seventh century of the Prophet Mohammad's grandson Imam Hussein.

Some pilgrims said the bomb attacks would not deter them.

"We came here for the pilgrimage. Nothing will stop us. We aren't afraid. We've been through worse events in the past," said 63-year-old Sadia Ali, who had traveled to Kerbala from Baghdad's Sadr City slum.

The attacks occurred despite heavy security on the pilgrimage route.

The Arbain rite, which culminates early Monday morning, is difficult to secure. Many pilgrims walk all the way to Kerbala, and are easy targets as they cover hundreds of km (miles) clutching religious banners.

Emergency services have been on high alert, and the public was asked to give blood in case of attacks.

"We have been on alert since last Saturday. From then till now I haven't been able to take even an hour to go and see my family. I have been sleeping in the ambulance," said emergency worker Ahmed Kadhom.

Kadhom said that after Thursday's attack, he saw a grief-stricken man carrying his dead young son.

"He was shouting and crying. I will never forget this scene," he said.

Sunni Islamist insurgents such as al Qaeda have often attacked large Shi'ite religious gatherings during the years of sectarian slaughter that followed the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

Suicide bombings are a particular hallmark of Sunni Islamist groups, some of which view Shi'ite Muslims as heretics.

The militants have increasingly used women for suicide bombings because they are less likely to be thoroughly searched by male guards, and because their voluminous robes can easily conceal vests packed with explosives and ball bearings or nails.

A sharp drop in the violence that swept Iraq after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion helped allies of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki score extensive victories in Iraq's Shi'ite south in a provincial election last month.

But the security gains are fragile, and suicide and car bomb attacks remain common.

Security sources have also warned that there could be an increase in attacks after Maliki's strong electoral showing, as political rivals and militants try to undermine the perception that the insurgency is on its last legs.

Additional reporting by Waleed Ibrahim and Khalid al-Ansary in Baghdad; Writing by Mohammed Abbas; Editing by Michael Christie and Samia Nakhoul)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090213/wl_nm/us_iraq_violence/print

This attack is by oppression?, No. this attack is for the occupation?, no. this attack is in retaliation?, no.

this attack is that the Sunnis are looking to shias, as heretics. This will open the eyes of those who say the policy of oppression are the root cause of terrorism.

EOY
02-13-2009, 05:34 AM
There are two fights that have been going on in Iraq:

1- Civil strife between Sunnis and Shiites.

2- War against invading armies.


You're confusing the two.

What you

say

? (http://hittheroadbase.ytmnd.com/)


/Thread

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 05:41 AM
What you say?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

BloodLube
02-13-2009, 05:45 AM
Somehow, some way, Israel is responsible. Someone here will make a connection. I guarantee it.

EDIT - before some other clown negs me for being an anti-Semite, I was being sarcastic. I am pro Israel.

bird72
02-13-2009, 06:30 AM
There are two fights that have been going on in Iraq:

1- Civil strife between Sunnis and Shiites.

2- War against invading armies.


You're confusing the two.

What you

say

? (http://hittheroadbase.ytmnd.com/)


/Thread



what, you are saying, you want to confuse, because you are sunni?

Civil strife between Sunnis and Shiites? or sunni persecution to shia....


What you say?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

Are you two deaf............sorry, blind..........boths?

"this attack is that the Sunnis are looking to shias, as heretics. This will open the eyes of those who say the policy of oppression are the root cause of terrorism."

ups... i forgot SK no see that as terrorist atack because, their are heretics, and bombing them, is justify........by God.







http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/images/outrage.gif

bird72
02-13-2009, 06:46 AM
Iraq suicide bomb kills pilgrims
At least 30 pilgrims have been killed by a female suicide bomber south of Baghdad, Iraqi police say.

At least 25 people were also injured in the attack in Iskandiriya, 40km (25 miles) south of Baghdad.

The blast targeted Shia pilgrims, many of whom have been travelling south to the city of Karbala to take part in an annual religious ceremony.

It is the third day of attacks on Shia pilgrims, with dozens killed in Baghdad and Mosul.

The Iskandiriya attack happened despite increased security along the route.

Religious targets

A police captain told AFP news agency that the bomber had hidden explosives under an abaya, the traditional head-to-toe black garment, and blown herself up among the crowd just after midday (0900 GMT).

Most of the dead were women and children, police said.

A doctor at Hilla General Hospital said most of the survivors had head and chest injuries, AFP reported.

Hundreds of thousands of Shia have been converging on Karbala in recent days, to celebrate Arbaeen - the end of symbolic mourning for the Prophet Muhammad's grandson, Imam Hussein, whose shrine is in the city.

In past years the pilgrimage has been the target of similar attacks, blamed on Sunni extremists bent on stirring up sectarian strife.

This year has been no exception: pilgrims have been attacked in Karbala itself and in Baghdad, but this latest explosion has been the deadliest so far.

Female militants

It was a grim reminder that despite the considerable general improvement in security in Iraq there are still people out there bent on igniting sectarian passions - something many Iraqis had hoped was becoming a thing of the past, says the BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad.

Iraqi militants have increasingly used women to carry out suicide attacks as they are less likely to be searched than men.

In 2007, there were eight suicide attacks by women; in 2008 there were 32, the US military says. In early January, a female bomber killed at least 35 Shia pilgrims in a blast near a Baghdad shrine.

Iraqi officials arrested an alleged militant recruiter last month.

Samira Jassim allegedly recruited more than 28 women to blow themselves up in various parts of Iraq.




where are the muslims protest and comdenation of this...?

riots....?

BloodLube
02-13-2009, 07:33 AM
where are the muslims protest and comdenation of this...?

riots....?

There won't be anything until they can tie it in with Zionism.

bird72
02-13-2009, 08:02 AM
maybe the sucide bomber use shoes made in israel......:rolleyes:

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 08:49 AM
Perhaps because instead of showing any legitimate concern for the lives lost you are actually using those deaths as an assault on muslims. quite trashy.

bird72
02-13-2009, 09:00 AM
Perhaps because instead of showing any legitimate concern for the lives lost you are actually using those deaths as an assault on muslims. quite trashy.

i believe you are going to make a post condemning the atack....

what a fool i am..:rolleyes:


i don't assault on any muslim, the only assault here was from the female

bomber.....

don't play the victim card...

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 09:07 AM
i believe you are going to make a post condemning the atack....

what a fool i am..:rolleyes:


i don't assault on any muslim, the only assault here was from the female

bomber.....

don't play the victim card...


You forget you have already told me that we are on opposite sides and that the death of muslims, including the children of Palestine, is only God doing what is right.

If anyone else posted this I might think they cared, in your case I know you couldn't care less.

You bird, I'm placing on ignore. All I see you do is manipulate whilst playing an innocent. I do think these attacks are terrible & that Iraq has been turned into a living hell for the majority of its citizens. But you get satisfaction from these incidents, you couldn't care less about the actual suffering of the people involved, they're muslims.

DCarruso
02-13-2009, 09:08 AM
Perhaps because instead of showing any legitimate concern for the lives lost you are actually using those deaths as an assault on muslims. quite trashy.
What is really trashy are posts like yours and your crew's. You people NEVER make a thread condemning crimes by muslims against anyone, not even where muslims slaughtering muslim women and children by the busload. But you and your crew never fail to make excuses for the perpetrators instead.

That is what is truly trashy, disgusting and perverted.

But you and your crew are just exposing the true color of your islamic tribal mentality.

However, I am sure YOU and your motley crew here, don't represent the rest of the good muslims who condemn and are disgusted by this and other crimes against humanity.

You people give good muslims a bad rep. All of you should just STFU and stop misrepresenting Islam and giving it such a disgusting image. You all are harming islam!

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 09:14 AM
What is really trashy are posts like yours and your crew's. You people NEVER make a thread condemning crimes by muslims against anyone, not even where muslims slaughtering muslim women and children by the busload. But you and your crew never fail to make excuses for the perpetrators instead.

That is what is truly trashy, disgusting and perverted.

But you and your crew are just exposing the true color of your islamic tribal mentality.

However, I am sure YOU and your motley crew here, don't represent the rest of the good muslims who condemn and are disgusted by this and other crimes against humanity.

You people give good muslims a bad rep. All of you should just STFU and stop misrepresenting Islam and giving it such a disgusting image. You all are harming islam!


If you actually check I rarely create a thread full stop.

where have I excused muslims killing muslims? Show me please? In fact I have condemned it and other atrocities too. I certainly don't need to dance to any tune you dictate that is for sure.

I notice that you continuously misrepresent Islam so I find your assessment quite comical.

bird72
02-13-2009, 09:24 AM
You forget you have already told me that we are on opposite sides and that the death of muslims, including the children of Palestine, is only God doing what is right.

If anyone else posted this I might think they cared, in your case I know you couldn't care less.

You bird, I'm placing on ignore. All I see you do is manipulate whilst playing an innocent. I do think these attacks are terrible & that Iraq has been turned into a living hell for the majority of its citizens. But you get satisfaction from these incidents, you couldn't care less about the actual suffering of the people involved, they're muslims.


If you actually check I rarely create a thread full stop.

where have I excused muslims killing muslims? Show me please? In fact I have condemned it and other atrocities too. I certainly don't need to dance to any tune you dictate that is for sure.

I notice that you continuously misrepresent Islam so I find your assessment quite comical.

you can say whatever you want, that, doesn't made it true.

if i am not aware of that people, i post here loosing my time? no

the problem you have is you and people like you say....

"oppression are the root cause of terrorism."

that doesn't true, and the article is a clear proof, that make's you feel mad.

and if I feel more sympathy for shias than by Sunnis. the shias have always been scorned by the Sunnis.

bird72
02-13-2009, 10:13 AM
What is really trashy are posts like yours and your crew's. You people NEVER make a thread condemning crimes by muslims against anyone, not even where muslims slaughtering muslim women and children by the busload. But you and your crew never fail to make excuses for the perpetrators instead.

That is what is truly trashy, disgusting and perverted.

But you and your crew are just exposing the true color of your islamic tribal mentality.

However, I am sure YOU and your motley crew here, don't represent the rest of the good muslims who condemn and are disgusted by this and other crimes against humanity.

You people give good muslims a bad rep. All of you should just STFU and stop misrepresenting Islam and giving it such a disgusting image. You all are harming islam!

this tragedy not give to this persons nor hiccups.

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 10:16 AM
Are you two deaf............sorry, blind..........boths?

Only facts please, amigo, not hate. Peace and love. :D

Why didn't you address my links? Are you catholic?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 10:17 AM
What is really trashy are posts like yours and your crew's. You people NEVER make a thread condemning crimes by muslims against anyone, not even where muslims slaughtering muslim women and children by the busload. But you and your crew never fail to make excuses for the perpetrators instead.

That is what is truly trashy, disgusting and perverted.

But you and your crew are just exposing the true color of your islamic tribal mentality.

However, I am sure YOU and your motley crew here, don't represent the rest of the good muslims who condemn and are disgusted by this and other crimes against humanity.

You people give good muslims a bad rep. All of you should just STFU and stop misrepresenting Islam and giving it such a disgusting image. You all are harming islam!

Agreed. asiya_sparkles and her crew are the worst example of what Muslims can be. This kind of bigoted thinking needs to be rooted out by any means necessary.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 10:23 AM
One strategy asiya_sparkles and her friends use is they try to blame everything on God. For example if you protest and show anger against the apostasy law, they will say something like "So what you are saying is that you are mad at God for making the law?"

NO. I am mad at you and your crew for passing this vile law as God's law.


Let me apply this the other way:
asiya_sparkles: O the poor palestinians. I hate zionists.
me: Are you mad at God because "He told the Jews to take over Israel"? O, so you are against Zionism, eh. You must be mad at God then.

Seriously, using God as a scapegoat is the WORST thing a person can do. Accept your flaws and repent instead of accusing God of being a murderer. And you claim to be God-fearing, puhleeze...

bird72
02-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Only facts please, amigo, not hate. Peace and love. :D

Why didn't you address my links? Are you catholic?]
made a thread i already debunk you so many times, that one more time is not a problem:p



http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

Female bomber kills 32 on Iraqi pilgrimage route


fact



about sunni hate against shias.....

bird72
02-13-2009, 10:26 AM
One strategy asiya_sparkles and her friends use is they try to blame everything on God. For example if you protest and show anger against the apostasy law, they will say something like "So what you are saying is that you are mad at God for making the law?"

NO. I am mad at you and your crew for passing this vile law as God's law.


Let me apply this the other way:
asiya_sparkles: O the poor palestinians. I hate zionists.
me: Are you mad at God because "He told the Jews to take over Israel"? O, so you are against Zionism, eh. You must be mad at God then.

Seriously, using God as a scapegoat is the WORST thing a person can do. Accept your flaws and repent instead of accusing God of being a murderer. And you claim to be God-fearing, puhleeze...

that is why i combat them, because some of them use God to do evil.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 10:33 AM
that is why i combat them, because some of them use God to do evil.

Which is the worst of sins, reminds me of the Pharisees and Sadducees.



the Pharisees as obsessed with man-made rules (especially concerning purity) whereas Jesus is more concerned with God’s love; the Pharisees scorn sinners whereas Jesus seeks them out.

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 10:42 AM
made a thread i already debunk you so many times, that one more time is not a problem:p



Female bomber kills 32 on Iraqi pilgrimage route


fact



about sunni hate against shias.....

Why aren't you addressing the facts amigo? Why do some catholics and protestants hate each other?

Why are they shooting each other and blowing each other up?

Why didn't you address my links? Are you catholic?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

Is it because the Bible says to kill idolaters and sinners?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=287401631&postcount=282

Only facts please, amigo, not hate. Peace and love. :D

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOAQKzY-aOBqDspFkEAV_ZO65vZAD9685ONO0

Police say Adkisson targeted the church because of its liberal open-door policies, including acceptance of gays, and fully expected to keep shooting until responding officers killed him.

Why is this happening in South America?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOU8-GWY2gk1CENOnld0ae2MpURQD966B3O81

Give me some closure on peace and love, mang.

dcballer
02-13-2009, 10:52 AM
RIP to all the people who died today in Iraq. I can't ****ing stand those terrorist scum. Seriously wtf do they want from Iraq? Do they really think that if they kill Muslim then they will go to heaven?

Iraq should close all the borders! We had enough from the (friendly) Arab countries. We are sick of them, they did nothing good. They always supported Saddam, and now they're sending us terrorist!

My cousin died 2 years ago from suicide bombing. He was only 4 years old. Did the Wahhabi achieve anything from this? And what's sickening was when i went to Arabic internet forum, they made a thread celebrating the suicide bombing. Man I am certain that these people will be the first to burn in hell.

They infiltrated my religion and now they want to destroy my country.

bird72
02-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Why aren't you addressing the facts amigo? Why do some catholics and protestants hate each other?

Why are they shooting each other and blowing each other up?

Why didn't you address my links? Are you catholic?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

Is it because the Bible says to kill idolaters and sinners?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=287401631&postcount=282

Only facts please, amigo, not hate. Peace and love. :D

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOAQKzY-aOBqDspFkEAV_ZO65vZAD9685ONO0

Police say Adkisson targeted the church because of its liberal open-door policies, including acceptance of gays, and fully expected to keep shooting until responding officers killed him.

Why is this happening in South America?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOU8-GWY2gk1CENOnld0ae2MpURQD966B3O81

Give me some closure on peace and love, mang.

are you justifing this massacre with another massacre...?

you don't be ashame, you even have hiccups, about those killings, even

than you have a shia friend (trance).

i always see you believe, you are more than trance.....

typical treatement from sunnis to shias.

Nagalfar
02-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Known Facts..
32 INNOCENT people are dead.
84 INNOCENT people wounded.
Woman bomber, POSSIBLY INNOCENT, was this one of the bombers forced into it by being raped? who knows.. in fact who in the Muslim world seems to give it more than a thought.


The real irony here is that here we have the usual people who would be on a soapbox demanding action if this was a Israeli air strike, this would be a war crime.. yet those same people are telling us.. "hey, its no big deal", this is a Shia and Sunni thing..

How can those same people "care so much" if other Muslims are killed in a war with the IDF. Blackwaters body count was a couple of people, look how loud Islam whined and protested that for months, yet, these and others like them are no big deal..

Here is the real truth.. a ever growing portion of Islam does not really give a damn about its people or how many die in the process of them getting what they want, all it cares about is its war with Israel and to a lesser degree the west.. We are told often "this is not Islam", yet those same people do not understand the simplest of things, like we can see with our eyes what Islam does to itself, and those around it, and the respect that is shows to those both within and those outside of it.. we see how Islam uses children to do its bidding for the gutless cowards who push the detonate button on a childs suicide vest, while safely watching from a block away.. we see Muslims using children as human shields.. we see them dancing in the streets when 1000s of Americans die, or a few Israeli's die, yet those same Americans were people who helped feed and clothe them.. every time something like this happens, and there is no outcry we hear silence, we hear your silence even more than we hear the bombs.. we hear your silence, it is deafening at times and while the west is slow to learn... make no mistake we are learning a priceless lesson, and it is slowing sinking in..

Islam you clearly live a double standard, one for you, and the one you apply to everyone else.. you demand the West respect your religion, people are murdered over a cartoon, yet those same sacred Mosques that you demand we respect are used from everything from storing weapons of war, to torture chambers.. we have found our holy book used as toilet paper in Mosques.. yet you demand our respect for what you think is important.

Yet the most amazing thing is we have people in the west demanding, and cursing other nations for not going to war against Israel.. just like those cowards who send a child into a crowd with a suicide vest on.. they sit in their warm, western homes, Internet, tv, cars.. having all the toys and amenities while at the same time cursing those who are not willing to give up their lives in war.. yet those same people doing the cursing do nothing except provide lip service and little else.. my advice.. stand up, take a gut check, pick up a weapon and join the war.. or sit down stfu and quit cursing others for not making war when you yourselves are clearly not willing to do it as well..

Islam, we hear you, we hear your silence even more than we hear your threats, and those magical words "this is not Islam" are beginning to carry less and less meaning and value.. because people are learning..

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 11:36 AM
are you justifing this massacre with another massacre...?

you don't be ashame, you even have hiccups, about those killings, even

than you have a shia friend (trance).

i always see you believe, you are more than trance.....

typical treatement from sunnis to shias.

Seriously, the standard defense seems to be "O look! It happens there too!"

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 12:02 PM
As a Shia, reading this, is quite painful.
This isn't the first time shiites have been targeted and this won't the last time.

However, this being said, I know that in the sunni sect, suicide bombing and murdering innocent people aren't permitted. So, just because one sunni (or perhaps many like her) decided to commit a crime (and a major sin), it doesn't mean we could blame all sunnis. Within the sunni sect there are groups as well, some of which hold a much stronger opposition against shias, and they are the one who commit these acts of violence and terrorism. So again, we cannot blame the sunni sect or all of sunnis.
Similarly, there are extremists shias as well, who unjustifiably murder innocent sunnis. So, although this pains me, I wouldn't generalize and blame all sunnis and/or the sunni sect.

Plus, religiously looking at it, the victims are all martyrs, who were killed on their way to see Imam Hussain [pbuh], the master of all martyrs. It is wonderful way to die, on your way to visit Imam Hussain [pbuh]. :)

deeyala
02-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Answering the thread question: No one really knows why would someone suicide-bomb oneself, killing dozens of innocents in the process. Our guess would be lots of hatred and fanaticism, both of which are denounced by Islam. Needless to say, along with killing innocents.






where are the muslims protest and comdenation of this...?

riots....?

Google them instead of asking someone to do your homework for you.


You people NEVER make a thread condemning crimes by muslims against anyone, not even where muslims slaughtering muslim women and children by the busload. But you and your crew never fail to make excuses for the perpetrators instead.
"you people"?
ahem

Someone hasn't been reading the forum much.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720376
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789480&postcount=1
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3307211
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789828&postcount=7


The "search" button is your friend. Try the words "denounce" and "condemn"

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 12:49 PM
When people use deaths as a cheap shot to cause division, they forget that real people suffer the consequences.

dcballer & trance, salam alikom wa rahma tullah wa burrahktoh.

bamatank
02-13-2009, 12:50 PM
Answering the thread question: No one really knows why would someone suicide-bomb oneself, killing dozens of innocents in the process. Our guess would be lots of hatred and fanaticism, both of which are denounced by Islam. Needless to say, along with killing innocents.





Google them instead of asking someone to do your homework for you.


"you people"?
ahem

Someone hasn't been reading the forum much.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720376
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789480&postcount=1
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3307211
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789828&postcount=7


The "search" button is your friend. Try the words "denounce" and "condemn"

I haven't seen you post in the longest time. How is everything?

OP: not highjacking your thread

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 01:04 PM
One strategy asiya_sparkles and her friends use is they try to blame everything on God. For example if you protest and show anger against the apostasy law, they will say something like "So what you are saying is that you are mad at God for making the law?"

NO. I am mad at you and your crew for passing this vile law as God's law.


Let me apply this the other way:
asiya_sparkles: O the poor palestinians. I hate zionists.
me: Are you mad at God because "He told the Jews to take over Israel"? O, so you are against Zionism, eh. You must be mad at God then.

Seriously, using God as a scapegoat is the WORST thing a person can do. Accept your flaws and repent instead of accusing God of being a murderer. And you claim to be God-fearing, puhleeze...


So you are mad at me for accepting the Laws of God? show me where it has been added as a fabricated law in fact because the insult would be towards God.

In Islam it is a clear rule to hate something wrong with your heart and to express it, change it if possible but not to accept criminality as the will of God - this life is a test, and how we react to that test is all. So whilst things happen, we are supposed to react to that. In this forum there are so many bigots I've lost count, but to confine that to a small group whom you call my friends is quite blinkered and very wrong.

Find somewhere I posted any kind of gratuious comments about the killing of anyone, especially in regard to apostacy or homosexuals being hung? Just once. Even if anyone is killed for apostacy I wouldn't be celebrating, I see no cause for celebration in the taking of life, it is a tragic, sombre & terribly hard thing to reconcile. Just as I wouldn't be celebrating many other laws, I wouldn't wave placards and be delighted at the death of anyone on deathrow either.

I ask you this, how do you know about God?
How do you differentiate between what is legitimately the Word of God from what you presume is innovated?

I have never stated at any time in this forum that I have a hate of anyone. So your assumption that I'm bigoted is quite something. As for Bird72 he stated that Palestinians are getting what they deserve and that it is God who is on the side of 'good & right' - therefore there are no such thing as innocents. Apparently not even women, children & babies. I have condemned the killing of Israeli children.

But you just keep yourself selective there psamty, you are very good at it. I certainly know who I am and distance myself from your portayal of me.

...And, for the longest time i carried the tag M.U.A.T 'Muslims United Against Terrorism'.

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 01:12 PM
RIP to all the people who died today in Iraq. I can't ****ing stand those terrorist scum. Seriously wtf do they want from Iraq? Do they really think that if they kill Muslim then they will go to heaven?

Iraq should close all the borders! We had enough from the (friendly) Arab countries. We are sick of them, they did nothing good. They always supported Saddam, and now they're sending us terrorist!

My cousin died 2 years ago from suicide bombing. He was only 4 years old. Did the Wahhabi achieve anything from this? And what's sickening was when i went to Arabic internet forum, they made a thread celebrating the suicide bombing. Man I am certain that these people will be the first to burn in hell.

They infiltrated my religion and now they want to destroy my country.

RIP to all the martyrs who were martyred today, and RIP to your cousin who was martyred two years ago.

No worries brother, justice will be served soon.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 01:18 PM
So you are mad at me for accepting the Laws of God? show me where it has been added as a fabricated law in fact because the insult would be towards God.

You simply don't get it. Are you mad at Zionists for accepting the Laws of God and trying to take over Israel? YES, you certainly are.

You create your own laws, and then pass them off as God's, that is what I am mad at. God isn't to blame.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 01:23 PM
I ask you this, how do you know about God?
How do you differentiate between what is legitimately the Word of God from what you presume is innovated?


How do you? How do you know you are right and the Shia aren't? Or the Christians? The answer is you don't. You think you know, but you don't. Now I know you will post a bunch of evidences and prophecies, but all that is just hypothetical. You don't know squat about God and you pretend you do.

DCarruso
02-13-2009, 01:32 PM
Answering the thread question: No one really knows why would someone suicide-bomb oneself, killing dozens of innocents in the process. Our guess would be lots of hatred and fanaticism, both of which are denounced by Islam. Needless to say, along with killing innocents.

Google them instead of asking someone to do your homework for you.

"you people"?
ahem

Someone hasn't been reading the forum much.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720376
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789480&postcount=1
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3307211
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11789828&postcount=7


The "search" button is your friend. Try the words "denounce" and "condemn"

You have just proven our points. Look at the links you provided. Those threads were there NOT to condemn crimes by muslims, but only there to defend yourselves for failing to condemn crimes by muslims.

Do you even understand the meaning of the word 'irony'? How about 'hypcrisy'?

We are STILL waiting for the overwhelming out pouring of your self initiated expression of outrage and condemnation against crimes committed by muslims. If it has to be pulled out of you, like pulling teeth, that just shows hypocrisy on your part. It isn't genuine. It is fake. For show.

You made one in 2006. WOW. It is 3 years now. How many more crimes have been committed since? Where is YOUR abundant expression of outrage and indignation since? But guess what? In comparison, just about everyday, YOUR MOTLEY CREW starts a few threads to whine about how muslims are allegedly wronged by non muslims, real or imaginary.


There is only one genuine unconditional outrage from a muslim in this thread, and it is from someone who is j fanatics' terrorism.

DCarruso
02-13-2009, 01:35 PM
RIP to all the people who died today in Iraq. I can't ****ing stand those terrorist scum. Seriously wtf do they want from Iraq? Do they really think that if they kill Muslim then they will go to heaven?

Iraq should close all the borders! We had enough from the (friendly) Arab countries. We are sick of them, they did nothing good. They always supported Saddam, and now they're sending us terrorist!

My cousin died 2 years ago from suicide bombing. He was only 4 years old. Did the Wahhabi achieve anything from this? And what's sickening was when i went to Arabic internet forum, they made a thread celebrating the suicide bombing. Man I am certain that these people will be the first to burn in hell.

They infiltrated my religion and now they want to destroy my country.

X2 ..

DCarruso
02-13-2009, 01:41 PM
How do you? How do you know you are right and the Shia aren't? Or the Christians? The answer is you don't. You think you know, but you don't. Now I know you will post a bunch of evidences and prophecies, but all that is just hypothetical. You don't know squat about God and you pretend you do.

Well said.

This is the root cause of it all. People committing crimes in the name of their God. Once you invoke this claim of endorsement from the creator, you absorb yourself of any responsibilities.

Neither the Koran NOT the Islamic laws are from God. It is only CLAIMS made by mortal men that they are.

bird72
02-13-2009, 01:56 PM
As a Shia, reading this, is quite painful.
This isn't the first time shiites have been targeted and this won't the last time.

However, this being said, I know that in the sunni sect, suicide bombing and murdering innocent people aren't permitted. So, just because one sunni (or perhaps many like her) decided to commit a crime (and a major sin), it doesn't mean we could blame all sunnis. Within the sunni sect there are groups as well, some of which hold a much stronger opposition against shias, and they are the one who commit these acts of violence and terrorism. So again, we cannot blame the sunni sect or all of sunnis.
Similarly, there are extremists shias as well, who unjustifiably murder innocent sunnis. So, although this pains me, I wouldn't generalize and blame all sunnis and/or the sunni sect.

Plus, religiously looking at it, the victims are all martyrs, who were killed on their way to see Imam Hussain [pbuh], the master of all martyrs. It is wonderful way to die, on your way to visit Imam Hussain [pbuh]. :)

I hate, yes i hateeeeee, murder.......come from whatever source are, thats

why i, write this words.

"This attack is by oppression?, No. this attack is for the occupation?, no. this attack is in retaliation?, no.

this attack is that the Sunnis(not alls like you say) are looking to shias, as heretics. This will open the eyes of those who say the policy of oppression are the root cause of terrorism."


i always feel mad about what, saddan do to shias in the 90's.

i feel sorry for the deads today, if somebody don't want to believe me....

i don't care.....

you know i criticize, iran goverment about opression and dead penalty, but

now is the sunni turn to be criticize...

bird72
02-13-2009, 01:58 PM
As for Bird72 he stated that Palestinians are getting what they deserve and that it is God who is on the side of 'good & right' - therefore there are no such thing as innocents.


please, i want to see that quote.........

BJplayer
02-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Its another horrible tragedy perpetrated on innocent people in the name of religion. Its sad and sickening. I wish we would see the level of outrage from people like SK, Danny, etc when Muslims kill innocent people as we do when Israel does something they perceive as wrong. If this was a Jew killing innocent muslims, we would be literally inundated with threads condemning the evil zionists. But since it is evil perpetrated by Muslims in the name of their religion, they dont make any threads. Its this bizzare hypocrisy but many of the muslims on this site that absolutely turns me against that religion and their causes. Right and wrong change for them depending on the people involved.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 02:11 PM
please, i want to see that quote.........

She is known for making up bull**** and spreading lies to support her stance.... don't worry about it.

bird72
02-13-2009, 02:16 PM
She is known for making up bull**** and spreading lies to support her stance.... don't worry about it.

what making me laugh is the word "deserve", i don't use that word often.

but i waiting my quote.

_AdaM_
02-13-2009, 02:21 PM
Its another horrible tragedy perpetrated on innocent people in the name of religion. Its sad and sickening. I wish we would see the level of outrage from people like SK, Danny, etc when Muslims kill innocent people as we do when Israel does something they perceive as wrong. If this was a Jew killing innocent muslims, we would be literally inundated with threads condemning the evil zionists. But since it is evil perpetrated by Muslims in the name of their religion, they dont make any threads. Its this bizzare hypocrisy but many of the muslims on this site that absolutely turns me against that religion and their causes. Right and wrong change for them depending on the people involved.


Hello bot :)

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08072.jpg

deeyala
02-13-2009, 02:54 PM
You have just proven our points. Look at the links you provided. Those threads were there NOT to condemn crimes by muslims,
They are specificallyt there for that reason.


but only there to defend yourselves for failing to condemn crimes by muslims.
You are not making any sense


Do you even understand the meaning of the word 'irony'? How about 'hypcrisy'?
And you need a trip to the dictionary yourself to introduce yourself to the words "debate" and "respect".



We are STILL waiting for the overwhelming out pouring of your self initiated expression of outrage and condemnation against crimes committed by muslims.
You know as well as I that nothing will satisfy you when it comes to Muslims and condemning atrocities carried out by people of their same faith. No one needs to apologize for something he/she hasn't done. But obviously that evades you.
So keep waiting and meanwhile just keep repeating how it's not enough for you.


If it has to be pulled out of you, like pulling teeth, that just shows hypocrisy on your part. It isn't genuine. It is fake. For show.
No one is pulling anything our of anyone in here.
You can't read minds and you can't assume to know what everyone intends with every action.



You made one in 2006. WOW. It is 3 years now.
It was an example.
Use your "Search" button.
If you want to find something, search for it instead of complaining about not finding it


How many more crimes have been committed since? Where is YOUR abundant expression of outrage and indignation since? But guess what? In comparison, just about everyday, YOUR MOTLEY CREW starts a few threads to whine about how muslims are allegedly wronged by non muslims, real or imaginaryThere is only one genuine unconditional outrage from a muslim in this thread, and it is from someone who is j fanatics' terrorism.

The only one who's doing all the whining right now is you.
You are not a judge to what is genuine and what is not, but you are entitled to you own opinion.

That's as far as my conversation is going to go with you.

Have a nice day

Compoundlift83
02-13-2009, 03:05 PM
Theres been suicide bombings going on all week in Iraq,it appears to be linked to Al Qaeda.Things like this has been whats turned the Sunni Communitty against Al Qaeda. {I realize the attacks were againt Shiites}

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:18 PM
Plus, religiously looking at it, the victims are all martyrs, who were killed on their way to see Imam Hussain [pbuh], the master of all martyrs. It is wonderful way to die, on your way to visit Imam Hussain [pbuh]. :)

I've seen a few deaths, and from what I've seen, there's no wonderful way to die. It's not pretty.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:24 PM
Well said.

This is the root cause of it all. People committing crimes in the name of their God. Once you invoke this claim of endorsement from the creator, you absorb yourself of any responsibilities.

Neither the Koran NOT the Islamic laws are from God. It is only CLAIMS made by mortal men that they are.


you know something, you psamty & bird all talk as though me and other muslims on this board are actually guilty of carrying out crimes against humanity, crimes against nations etc.

Unbelievable!

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 03:29 PM
you know something, you psamty & bird all talk as though me and other muslims on this board are actually guilty of carrying out crimes against humanity, crimes against nations etc.

Unbelievable!

No we don't. But you support crimes against humanity. And we never pointed at all Muslims, only at you and other extremists.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:30 PM
She is known for making up bull**** and spreading lies to support her stance.... don't worry about it.


I beg your pardon, is this your style of debate? If you can't get rid of someone by pulling out a fatwah, you'll do your best to discredit them by defamation of character? nice guy very 'kind'...

bird sent me a pm, which in hindsight it would have been wise to keep.

So I'll swear by God that he did state that God is (not verbatim) demonstrating who the good guys are by who is getting killed in Palestine. As I explained at the time I don't believe we get the judgement until Judgement day, and if we look backwards then Christians suffered too.

Perhaps Bird would care to swear or bring proof that I'm wrong.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:34 PM
No we don't. But you support crimes against humanity. And we never pointed at all Muslims, only at you and other extremists.

when have I supported crimes against humanity? go on, show me. And I am no extremist. I don't support divisions in the ummah or being judgemental in regard to non-muslims. So where is the extreme?

Also your vindictive little jibe about claiming to know God was not an answer to my question at all, and if you level it at me you must equally level the same insult at every person who follows every religion.

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:36 PM
Hello bot :)

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08072.jpg
What makes hima bot? Because his contribution was more than "lawl" or "pwned"?


I beg your pardon, is this your style of debate? If you can't get rid of someone by pulling out a fatwah, you'll do your best to discredit them by defamation of character? nice guy very 'kind'...

bird sent me a pm, which in hindsight it would have been wise to keep.

So I'll swear by God that he did state that God is (not verbatim) demonstrating who the good guys are by who is getting killed in Palestine. As I explained at the time I don't believe we get the judgement until Judgement day, and if we look backwards then Christians suffered too.

Perhaps Bird would care to swear or bring proof that I'm wrong.You're asking bird to prove he didn't send a PM?

I want you to prove you didn't email me nude photos of yourself 10 minutes ago.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:38 PM
What makes hima bot? Because his contribution was more than "lawl" or "pwned"?

You're asking bird to prove he didn't send a PM?

I want you to prove you didn't email me nude photos of yourself 10 minutes ago.


no, I'm hoping bird still has the pm, and you are being naughty...you said you don't go in for lies!!!! :D

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 03:38 PM
So I'll swear by God that he did state that God is (not verbatim) demonstrating who the good guys are by who is getting killed in Palestine.

That doesn't mean he supports the Palestinians dying, and if he did actually send you the PM, you should have a copy.

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:41 PM
no, I'm hoping bird still has the pm, and you are being naughty...you said you don't go in for lies!!!! :D

I'm not being naughty, or lying. I'm making a point. Try and keep up. You can't prove a negative.

Can you prove you didn't send me some naughty photos of yourself?

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:42 PM
I get loads of pms and am often deleting them. Also, considering that many of the victims were children and he expressed no 'of course its sad about the children', it was natural to assume that when he made his comments it covered all the lives.

So, psamty, show me the fairytales I've been making up?

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:45 PM
I'm not being naughty, or lying. I'm making a point. Try and keep up. You can't prove a negative.

Can you prove you didn't send me some naughty photos of yourself?

ok, as long as you are admitting you are talking in the hypothetical then without some help from a computer whizz who could retrieve info from my hardrive, I can't prove bird sent me the pm, however, since bird seems to be on a moral crusade, I'm sure he wont mind being moral right now and not allow me to be called a liar.

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:45 PM
I get loads of pms and am often deleting them. Also, considering that many of the victims were children and he expressed no 'of course its sad about the children', it was natural to assume that when he made his comments it covered all the lives.

So, psamty, show me the fairytales I've been making up?

So essentially, you're cheerfully accusing him without any sort of proof at all.

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:47 PM
ok, as long as you are admitting you are talking in the hypothetical then without some help from a computer whizz who could retrieve info from my hardrive, I can't prove bird sent me the pm, however, since bird seems to be on a moral crusade, I'm sure he wont mind being moral right now and not allow me to be called a liar.

You seem to be getting mixed up. YOU demanded proof from bird that he didn't send you a PM, when in actuality, the burden of proof is on you, as the accuser.

So, put up or shut up....

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:52 PM
So essentially, you're cheerfully accusing him without any sort of proof at all.


I don't and didn't feel cheerful in fact initially I said it would be good to debate, then I saw the trail of threads and realised it isn't a debate that he desires. If you look at people I do talk to, I do absolutely feel a lot of empathy for those who have suffered at the hands of terrorists. However, those posts are conveniently ignored.

And as dee rightfully has stated, me apologising and expressing outrage everytime a person does wrong would not be logical...I don't take responsibility for actions of people claiming to act as muslims anymore, I might add than I would for British football hooligans at home or abroad etc.

But I do like football and also think its good to let off steam in the stands by supporting your club...but I categorically denounce the hooligan element.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 03:54 PM
You seem to be getting mixed up. YOU demanded proof from bird that he didn't send you a PM, when in actuality, the burden of proof is on you, as the accuser.

So, put up or shut up....

No, I didn't ask for proof that he didn't send a pm, he did and I did too.

Weightaholic
02-13-2009, 03:56 PM
No, I didn't ask for proof that he didn't send a pm, he did and I did too.

Post 51 in this thread.

Short term memory problems?

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 03:56 PM
I hate, yes i hateeeeee, murder.......come from whatever source are, thats

why i, write this words.

"This attack is by oppression?, No. this attack is for the occupation?, no. this attack is in retaliation?, no.

this attack is that the Sunnis(not alls like you say) are looking to shias, as heretics. This will open the eyes of those who say the policy of oppression are the root cause of terrorism."


i always feel mad about what, saddan do to shias in the 90's.

i feel sorry for the deads today, if somebody don't want to believe me....

i don't care.....

you know i criticize, iran goverment about opression and dead penalty, but

now is the sunni turn to be criticize...

The root cause of all evil is ignorance.
And what makes it worse is when ignorance is accompanied by arrogance.

Unfortunately, it is part of human nature to seek power and control, and it is part of human nature to oppose/silence whoever that stands in their way to reach their egotistical goals.

The main issue is, criminals are found everywhere, within all religions, all regions, all cultures, all ethnicities and all belief systems. Thus, we cannot point fingers to a certani group and generalize.

At the end of the day, we all defend what we believe to be the right cause and the right path. It is only natural for each one of us to think of our beliefs as the truth or at least closest to the truth.

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 04:02 PM
I've seen a few deaths, and from what I've seen, there's no wonderful way to die. It's not pretty.

:)

Death for the right cause is wonderful. It may not look wonderful.
I wasn't speaking about decapacitated bodies looking wonderful, I was stating the beauty of death, for the right cause.

asiya-sparkles
02-13-2009, 04:03 PM
The root cause of all evil is ignorance.
And what makes it worse is when ignorance is accompanied by arrogance.

Unfortunately, it is part of human nature to seek power and control, and it is part of human nature to oppose/silence whoever that stands in their way to reach their egotistical goals.

The main issue is, criminals are found everywhere, within all religions, all regions, all cultures, all ethnicities and all belief systems. Thus, we cannot point fingers to a certani group and generalize.

At the end of the day, we all defend what we believe to be the right cause and the right path. It is only natural for each one of us to think of our beliefs as the truth or at least closest to the truth.

x2
and sometimes we also acknowledge that until the moment of judgement we wont know 100% if we got it right, and that if we follow the teachings as best we can, then we won't hate on each other, but wish for the best for each other. That is the better part of humanity.

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 06:43 PM
are you justifing this massacre with another massacre...?

Nope, I'm showing you that extremists exist everywhere.

Did news of a terrorist organization called Al Qaida just reach you? Killing innocent people is their business.

Christian extremists kill each other. Jewish extremists kill Muslims and Christians. Hindu and Buddhist extremists kill other Hindus and Muslims. Muslim extremists kill everyone else. Every extremist group has a target.

Shiite extremists spent 5 years in Iraq killing innocent Sunni Muslims to retalliate against Al Qaida.

So Al Qaida killed innocent Shia, and Shia extremists responded by killing innocent Sunnis. This was funded and supported by Iran and the Shiite Iraqi government.

ZsbSEpk-iIs

Y4O1gJ2QS3c

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 07:14 PM
...This was funded and supported by Iran and the Shiite Iraqi government.


Really?
Says who?

Edit:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1230

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-interior-minister-denies-running-shia-death-squads-473942.html

BJplayer
02-13-2009, 07:37 PM
:)

Death for the right cause is wonderful. It may not look wonderful.
I wasn't speaking about decapacitated bodies looking wonderful, I was stating the beauty of death, for the right cause.

This^^^is madness. And the reason Islam is not compatible with civilized people in the 21st Century...

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 07:41 PM
Really?
Says who?

The Iraqi government itself admitted this when doing internal investigations on its government members who were funding the Shia death squads. You should watch the videos online.

The United States also captured Iranians in Iraq training the death squads (senior members of Iranian elite Qods brigade are but one example) and provided evidence of weapons captured in cross-border shipments with Iranian serial numbers on them.

Evidence has also been found of Chinese weapons being shipped to Iran and then transported to the Shia in Iraq.

In short: everyone but Iran. But of course, only Iran can be trusted. Are you expecting Iran to admit that they fund the Shiite version of Al Qaida? Or do you only trust non-Iranian sources when they talk about Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other country but Iran?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/09/iraq/main2452519.shtml

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/mar/15/20070315-082220-8308r/

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/26/monday/index.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/956wspet.asp

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-30-iraq-iran_x.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-weapons.html?_r=1



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-interior-minister-denies-running-shia-death-squads-473942.html

Whoa! Stop the presses! Someone denied being involved in killing people, I guess that's evidence. Look at the internal audits, not what people claim about themselves. It's a basic aspect of legal philosophy that you can't trust people's own claims about themselves.

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 08:00 PM
The Iraqi government itself admitted this when doing internal investigations on its government members who were funding the Shia death squads. You should watch the videos online.

The United States also captured Iranians in Iraq training the death squads (senior members of Iranian elite Qods brigade are but one example) and provided evidence of weapons captured in cross-border shipments with Iranian serial numbers on them.

Evidence has also been found of Chinese weapons being shipped to Iran and then transported to the Shia in Iraq.

You had sent me these videos months ago.

None of what you said here demonstrate that there is a policy in place to train, fund, support and send of death squads.

When you make a baseless general statement such as the one you made, you're implying that the Iranian and the Iraqi shia governments, have a system in place to train and fund these terrorists to reap havoc.

Could it be the case that criminals in Iran and Iraq supported other criminals?

Or must we jump up and assume the Iranian government must have been behind all these?



In short: everyone but Iran. But of course, only Iran can be trusted. Are you expecting Iran to admit that they fund the Shiite version of Al Qaida? Or do you only trust non-Iranian sources when they talk about Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and every other country but Iran?

You keep missing the point.
You say the Iranian government must have been behind it.
Then you think that whoever disagrees with you must be wrong.

Here's a tip, every coin has two sides.

If you wish to believe that the Iranian government was behind this, then you have every right to do so. It's your opinion and you're entitled to have it.

But when you pretend your perspective is THE truth and everyone else is wrong, then you're either naive or arrogant.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/09/iraq/main2452519.shtml

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/mar/15/20070315-082220-8308r/

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/26/monday/index.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/956wspet.asp

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-30-iraq-iran_x.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-weapons.html?_r=1


Hmm...

NYTimes
USAToday
CNN
Washingtontimes
CBS
Weeklystandards

All American news agencies, and God forbid they lie about Iran or manipulate information about Iran.

Keep this list of yours in mind, soon you'll end up on the other side of these "trustworthy" news agencies, and we'll see how you'll respond to their news/articles.



Whoa! Stop the presses! Someone denied being involved in killing people, I guess that's evidence. Look at the internal audits, not what people claim about themselves. It's a basic aspect of legal philosophy that you can't trust people's own claims about themselves.

Funny.

SYRIANKID
02-13-2009, 08:33 PM
You had sent me these videos months ago.

None of what you said here demonstrate that there is a policy in place to train, fund, support and send of death squads.

When you make a baseless general statement such as the one you made, you're implying that the Iranian and the Iraqi shia governments, have a system in place to train and fund these terrorists to reap havoc.

Could it be the case that criminals in Iran and Iraq supported other criminals?

Or must we jump up and assume the Iranian government must have been behind all these?

It's a combination of all of the above. If you understand how governments work, they create 3rd parties that answer to them.

The United States and Saudi Arabia and Israel and Pakistan do the exact same thing. Don't ever think that official alliances mean anything. Don't think for one second that the groups that also attack Iran are not based outside of Iran. Funding + Weapons.

So there is small-scale criminal networks and at the end of the line there is government knowledge and funneling of means. EVERYWHERE in the world. Don't take it personally that Iran plays the game, because everyone plays the game.


You keep missing the point.
You say the Iranian government must have been behind it.
Then you think that whoever disagrees with you must be wrong.

Here's a tip, every coin has two sides.

I didn't say that, you said that. Every time anything negative surfaces about Iran, even when everyone and everything BUT Iran admits to it, you still wait for Iran to release an official report. Obviously this is because you are Iranian and it hurts you to realize these things about your country, but the fact is most countries play filthy games like these also.


If you wish to believe that the Iranian government was behind this, then you have every right to do so. It's your opinion and you're entitled to have it.

But when you pretend your perspective is THE truth and everyone else is wrong, then you're either naive or arrogant.

Thanks, but you're doing the same thing. No matter what anyone says, you reject everything except the official Iranian government story. Everyone else is naive, arrogant, or working for the Americans. So apply that advice generously.



NYTimes
USAToday
CNN
Washingtontimes
CBS
Weeklystandards

All American news agencies, and God forbid they lie about Iran or manipulate information about Iran.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6352593.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4136856.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7616429.stm

BBC reported the same thing also. Or are you suggesting that all those Iranian serial numbers and the actual Iranians captured in Iraq were faked? Apparently all these news agencies are working to fake information against Iran, and only the Iranian government can scrutinize its own activities? You do realize that this conspiracy theory might work IF there wasn't actual physical evidence being presented.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/06/AR2007110600853.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/29/AR2006122901510.html


Keep this list of yours in mind, soon you'll end up on the other side of these "trustworthy" news agencies, and we'll see how you'll respond to their news/articles.

I use CNN, BBC, and the Washington Post all the time! I don't go around pretending like anything negative in the media is all being systematically faked by all the news organizations on Earth.

If I was quoting FOX News or some other flaky conspiracy website THEN you are free to criticize obvious bias.

But you yourself were using CNN and BBC to outline Israeli crimes! Now all of a sudden CNN and BBC are unreliable sources on Iran? Be consistent and try to distinguish between blind patriotism and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Keep in mind that terrorists like Al Qaida don't operate in a vacuum. There are Shia terrorists as well doing their part.

ZenBowman
02-13-2009, 10:04 PM
This^^^is madness. And the reason Islam is not compatible with civilized people in the 21st Century...

Islam is reasonably compatible, but not perfectly. However, no religion is perfectly compatible for today:

- Judaism contains instances of God sanctioning murder for no reason
- Islam has the apostasy and homo laws
- Christianity has hell for non-believers
- Hinduism has the disgusting caste system

Some adaptation is needed for all religions. Now I know people will bash this viewpoint saying that changing the word of God, blah blah, but the fact is God did not write any of those books. He may have inspired men to do so, but men did, and in the end, all men have faults and cannot think 1500 years ahead.

Another thing to realize is that Muslims in Muslim countries are not as defensive and extreme as Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. I grew up in the UAE (before it was glitzy), and 95% of Muslims there were very moderate - i.e. prayed occasionally and fasted, but they tried to date girls, spent most of our time playing sports, didn't grow elaborate beards, weren't too obsessed with hating the west like many UK Muslims. Everyone respected their parents and had generally good relations, but there was plenty of mischief going on too.

I think Muslims outside the Arab world have a very twisted view of what "life back home" is like, and once they see the reality they will realize they have overcompensated like crazy.

TranceNRG
02-13-2009, 10:09 PM
It's a combination of all of the above. If you understand how governments work, they create 3rd parties that answer to them.

The United States and Saudi Arabia and Israel and Pakistan do the exact same thing. Don't ever think that official alliances mean anything. Don't think for one second that the groups that also attack Iran are not based outside of Iran. Funding + Weapons.

So there is small-scale criminal networks and at the end of the line there is government knowledge and funneling of means. EVERYWHERE in the world. Don't take it personally that Iran plays the game, because everyone plays the game.

Thanks for teaching me politics.



I didn't say that, you said that. Every time anything negative surfaces about Iran, even when everyone and everything BUT Iran admits to it, you still wait for Iran to release an official report. Obviously this is because you are Iranian and it hurts you to realize these things about your country, but the fact is most countries play filthy games like these also.



Obviously... I mean what other possible reasons could there be.




Thanks, but you're doing the same thing. No matter what anyone says, you reject everything except the official Iranian government story. Everyone else is naive, arrogant, or working for the Americans. So apply that advice generously.

I do, thank you.
I do keep saying, everyone's entitled to their opinions, including you and I.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6352593.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4136856.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7616429.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/06/AR2007110600853.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/29/AR2006122901510.html




NYTimes
USAToday
CNN
Washingtontimes
CBS
Weeklystandards
BBC
Washingtonpost

Cool, I'll keep your list of "trustworthy" news agencies in mind.



BBC reported the same thing also. Or are you suggesting that all those Iranian serial numbers and the actual Iranians captured in Iraq were faked? Apparently all these news agencies are working to fake information against Iran, and only the Iranian government can scrutinize its own activities? You do realize that this conspiracy theory might work IF there wasn't actual physical evidence being presented.

No.
All these weapons could've been there.
Shia death squads could in fact exist.
They could've committed terrorism.
I am not objecting to these.
You're certain that the Iranian and the Iraqi shia governments were behind this. I'm not.

There is a possibility that Iranian and Iraqi criminals supported and supplied these shia criminals, who committed these crimes inside Iraq, with Iranian weapons, not the governments.



I use CNN, BBC, and the Washington Post all the time! I don't go around pretending like anything negative in the media is all being systematically faked by all the news organizations on Earth.

If I was quoting FOX News or some other flaky conspiracy website THEN you are free to criticize obvious bias.

But you yourself were using CNN and BBC to outline Israeli crimes! Now all of a sudden CNN and BBC are unreliable sources on Iran? Be consistent and try to distinguish between blind patriotism and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.


*sigh

Everyone posts news and articles from various sources.
People on either side, read and examine the articles and the sources.
I highly doubt anyone would take what the articles or the news says, word for word and blindly accept the allegations and accusations. In the same way that I expect pro-Israeli individuals to dissect the articles I post, you and other anti-Iranian posters, should expect others and I to dissect your and their articles.

At the end of the day, everyone has a justification for everything they believe in or wish to believe in. What it comes down to is when others who are not holding the same opinions as them, dissect and examine each and every article from their own perspectives. This way, the posters and/or the readers become aware of other perspectives surrounding that certain article/news/issues.

So, you can post whatever you wish and believe whatever you desire. Others and I will examine and dissect your posts and opinions from our perspectives, same goes for me, same goes for others.



Keep in mind that terrorists like Al Qaida don't operate in a vacuum. There are Shia terrorists as well doing their part.

OK

bird72
02-14-2009, 09:47 AM
Nope, I'm showing you that extremists exist everywhere.

Did news of a terrorist organization called Al Qaida just reach you? Killing innocent people is their business.

Christian extremists kill each other. Jewish extremists kill Muslims and Christians. Hindu and Buddhist extremists kill other Hindus and Muslims. Muslim extremists kill everyone else. Every extremist group has a target.

Shiite extremists spent 5 years in Iraq killing innocent Sunni Muslims to retalliate against Al Qaida.

So Al Qaida killed innocent Shia, and Shia extremists responded by killing innocent Sunnis. This was funded and supported by Iran and the Shiite Iraqi government.

ZsbSEpk-iIs

Y4O1gJ2QS3c

i condem extremist christians(who are not christians.)every person who do, harm,kill,atack,persecute,harras,etc. and call thenself christians, is not true, because real christians doesn't teach that. you can be call, pope, minister, apostol, preacher, prophets, priest,etc. and you harm,kill,atack,persecute,harras,etc, you are going straigth to hell.......

a christian who don't follow this.............

John 13
34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

can't be call christian.....period......

now, i exhort you, to condem every muslim, who harm,kill,atack,persecute

harras, etc.

bird72
02-14-2009, 10:08 AM
Shiite extremists spent 5 years in Iraq killing innocent Sunni Muslims to retalliate against Al Qaida.

So Al Qaida killed innocent Shia, and Shia extremists responded by killing innocent Sunnis. This was funded and supported by Iran and the Shiite Iraqi government.


iraki sunnis give safe haven to al qaida to do those atrocities. later when al qaida impose their own sharia law, and U.S. make pact with sunnis(including monetary) sunnis expel al qaida. when U.S. invade irak, sunnis know they are a minority, that's why the killings beging


persecution

The dispute over the right successor to Muhammad resulted in the formation of two main sects, the Sunni, and the Shia. The Sunni, or followers of the way, followed the caliphate and maintained the premise that any devout Muslim could potentially become the successor to the Prophet if accepted by his peers. The Shia however, maintain that only the person selected by God and announced by the Prophet could become his successor, thus Ali became the religious authority for the Shia people. Militarily established and holding control over the Umayyad government, many Sunni rulers perceived the Shia as a threat ? both to their political and religious authority.[56][unreliable source?]

The Sunni rulers under the Umayyads sought to marginalize the Shia minority and later the Abbasids turned on their Shia allies and further imprisoned, persecuted, and killed Shias. The persecution of Shias throughout history by Sunni co-religionists has often been characterized by brutal and genocidal acts. Comprising only about 10-15% of the entire Muslim population, to this day, the Shia remain a marginalized community in many Sunni Arab dominant countries without the rights to practice their religion and organize.[57]

At various times many Shi'a groups have faced persecution.[58][59][60][61][62][63]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

shia persecution from sunnis is far, far, far in ancient history


let's see saudi arabia

HUMAN RIGHTS IN SAUDI ARABIA

"Well, all Saudis have no religious freedom. Including even the people who follow Wahhabi Islam. The religion is controlled by the state, by the government, you know, no matter whether you are Shia or Sunni, Wahhabi or Sufi, you are bound by the state. The majority of oppression, religious oppression against Muslims or against citizens is targeted against Shia Muslims, because they are not even considered Muslims by state policy. And they are not allowed, for example, to teach religion in schools, or history. For example, today in the Saudi history in seventy-one years of Saudi Arabia, not a single, for two minutes, was a Shia cleric allowed to go on T-V. "

http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2003-10/a-2003-10-20-5-1.cfm

i know trance want to be polite, but the facts are there.......

bird72
02-14-2009, 10:20 AM
You forget you have already told me that we are on opposite sides and that the death of muslims, including the children of Palestine, is only God doing what is right.

If anyone else posted this I might think they cared, in your case I know you couldn't care less.

You bird, I'm placing on ignore. All I see you do is manipulate whilst playing an innocent. I do think these attacks are terrible & that Iraq has been turned into a living hell for the majority of its citizens. But you get satisfaction from these incidents, you couldn't care less about the actual suffering of the people involved, they're muslims.


please, i want to see that quote.........


I beg your pardon, is this your style of debate? If you can't get rid of someone by pulling out a fatwah, you'll do your best to discredit them by defamation of character? nice guy very 'kind'...

bird sent me a pm, which in hindsight it would have been wise to keep.

So I'll swear by God that he did state that God is (not verbatim) demonstrating who the good guys are by who is getting killed in Palestine. As I explained at the time I don't believe we get the judgement until Judgement day, and if we look backwards then Christians suffered too.

Perhaps Bird would care to swear or bring proof that I'm wrong.


no, I'm hoping bird still has the pm, and you are being naughty...you said you don't go in for lies!!!! :D


That doesn't mean he supports the Palestinians dying, and if he did actually send you the PM, you should have a copy.


I get loads of pms and am often deleting them. Also, considering that many of the victims were children and he expressed no 'of course its sad about the children', it was natural to assume that when he made his comments it covered all the lives.

So, psamty, show me the fairytales I've been making up?


ok, as long as you are admitting you are talking in the hypothetical then without some help from a computer whizz who could retrieve info from my hardrive, I can't prove bird sent me the pm, however, since bird seems to be on a moral crusade, I'm sure he wont mind being moral right now and not allow me to be called a liar.


You seem to be getting mixed up. YOU demanded proof from bird that he didn't send you a PM, when in actuality, the burden of proof is on you, as the accuser.

So, put up or shut up....


No, I didn't ask for proof that he didn't send a pm, he did and I did too.


well, i don't go to make a field day(or a report) on you, that's not my style, but next time

you want to debunk someone, you only need to bring true arguments,

not lies. shame on you.

is the third person i need to say this, you need to be like Trance, a good

muslim.

bird72
02-14-2009, 05:38 PM
I think Muslims outside the Arab world have a very twisted view of what "life back home" is like, and once they see the reality they will realize they have overcompensated like crazy.

That happend in my country also, but in a political view of status....

BJplayer
02-15-2009, 04:53 AM
Plus, religiously looking at it, the victims are all martyrs, who were killed on their way to see Imam Hussain [pbuh], the master of all martyrs. It is wonderful way to die, on your way to visit Imam Hussain [pbuh]. :)

Getting blown up as you go to worship some other equally deluded dude who had also been murdered, is a good way to die? This is the madness of Islam...

asiya-sparkles
02-15-2009, 06:49 AM
Post 51 in this thread.

Short term memory problems?


I don't have a short term memory problem, I already asked politely too since Bird prides himself on being a good Christian, to either take an oath if it suits him or man up and say, yes, that is what I said.

I do not see me request him to prove he didn't send me a pm. You use that choice of words because he couldn't prove he didn't. no-one is that foolish.

asiya-sparkles
02-15-2009, 06:51 AM
Getting blown up as you go to worship some other equally deluded dude who had also been murdered, is a good way to die? This is the madness of Islam...

People seem to be getting blown up to 'preserve freedoms' or promote democracy, or to garner wealth...which they personally wont see the benefits of and nor will their surviving family members (yes talking about the few who hoard wealth at the expense of the masses).

So isn't war madness, really?

BJplayer
02-15-2009, 07:28 AM
People seem to be getting blown up to 'preserve freedoms' or promote democracy, or to garner wealth...which they personally wont see the benefits of and nor will their surviving family members (yes talking about the few who hoard wealth at the expense of the masses).

So isn't war madness, really?

Why cant you guys stay on topic rather than constantly attempting to change it or use subterfuge to keep from addressing the real problems with Islam? Trance was saying that being murdered on your way to worship some other dude that was murdered, is a beautiful way to die. This absurd mentality about death and dying in Islam is so backwards as to be laughable. the whole 72 virigns thing would be hystertical if it wasnt so dangerous and preposterous. But rather than address the issue, you go off on a tangent about the madness of war. The exact sort of arguement that we constantly hear from Muslims who really cant defend the insanity of Islam.

ZenBowman
02-15-2009, 08:04 AM
Why cant you guys stay on topic rather than constantly attempting to change it or use subterfuge to keep from addressing the real problems with Islam? Trance was saying that being murdered on your way to worship some other dude that was murdered, is a beautiful way to die. This absurd mentality about death and dying in Islam is so backwards as to be laughable. the whole 72 virigns thing would be hystertical if it wasnt so dangerous and preposterous. But rather than address the issue, you go off on a tangent about the madness of war. The exact sort of arguement that we constantly hear from Muslims who really cant defend the insanity of Islam.

The mentality towards death and dying in Islam is actually admirable. People should not be afraid of death.

Lager1
02-15-2009, 08:09 AM
Why are moslems so angry and barbaric?

BJplayer
02-15-2009, 08:26 AM
Why are moslems so angry and barbaric?

Because the 6th century ****phile that they worship was angry and barbaric and they refuse to advance their religion into the modern age.

Lager1
02-15-2009, 09:46 AM
Because the 6th century ****phile that they worship was angry and barbaric and they refuse to advance their religion into the modern age.

That's true.

J-WaQ
02-15-2009, 10:45 AM
now if only they kept saddaam in power

72cutlass
02-15-2009, 11:19 AM
There are two fights that have been going on in Iraq:

1- Civil strife between Sunnis and Shiites.

2- War against invading armies.


You're confusing the two.

What you

say

? (http://hittheroadbase.ytmnd.com/)


/Thread

Yet you fail to codemn the targetting of women and children. If its a war between to factions of the religion should they not target the mosques of the opposing side or is spilling the blood of children viewed as less of a sin than breaking the bricks of your holy building?

3 pages of this crap and there is ONE muslim who backs up and actually thinks that maybe popping off women and kids celebrating their religion is probably not a justifiable action.

EOY points out some obvious crap about their are 2 wars going on. (thanks nobody knew that targeting kids might not be an effort to drive out the US)

SyrianKid takes the classic route of oh well since those evil christians occasionally kill each other than blowing up these kids was justified.

Sparkles jumps in here doing her little dance. Pretty soon she'll be whipping out the sympathy victim card and blame it all on poverty and globalization or some crap.

Here let me say it. ANYONE supporting a cause that purposely targets innocent civilians with the intent to cause fear and terrror due to their beliefs should be put to death promptly whether they have engaged in actions directly or indirectly as your genes are not fit for further existence.

72cutlass
02-15-2009, 11:34 AM
The mentality towards death and dying in Islam is actually admirable. People should not be afraid of death.

There is nothing admirable about the desire to kill innocents. It is not that these people do not fear death, it is that they desire to kill more than they desire to live.

SYRIANKID
02-15-2009, 06:54 PM
Yet you fail to codemn the targetting of women and children. If its a war between to factions of the religion should they not target the mosques of the opposing side or is spilling the blood of children viewed as less of a sin than breaking the bricks of your holy building?

3 pages of this crap and there is ONE muslim who backs up and actually thinks that maybe popping off women and kids celebrating their religion is probably not a justifiable action.

EOY points out some obvious crap about their are 2 wars going on. (thanks nobody knew that targeting kids might not be an effort to drive out the US)

SyrianKid takes the classic route of oh well since those evil christians occasionally kill each other than blowing up these kids was justified.

Sparkles jumps in here doing her little dance. Pretty soon she'll be whipping out the sympathy victim card and blame it all on poverty and globalization or some crap.

Here let me say it. ANYONE supporting a cause that purposely targets innocent civilians with the intent to cause fear and terrror due to their beliefs should be put to death promptly whether they have engaged in actions directly or indirectly as your genes are not fit for further existence.

How many times does someone have to repeat the same concept that terrorism, killing innocent people, is forbidden in Islam.

Al Qaida does this on a weekly basis. There are murders perpetrated by Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists every day. Does everyone have to formally RE-ANNOUNCE their pledge against murder?

Should we create a daily thread where we all announce that we are against racism, violence, terrorism, and unhealthy diets?

It's time for you to recognize that you don't do this either. Nobody does this. You didn't wake up in the morning and condemn terrorism. You didn't condemn illegal wars. You didn't condemn the rapes that happened today - and they happened. You didn't condemn racism.

Here, if it makes you feel better, here are several condemnations, how many months will they cover us for?

SK CONDEMNING VIOLENCE:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=16509931&postcount=1

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720376

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=931983

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11730893&postcount=41

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7510041&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6424591&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=889452&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=138480931&postcount=48

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3654471&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=913298&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=423415&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=709549&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=625171&highlight=terrorism

DCarruso
02-15-2009, 08:13 PM
.....
Here, if it makes you feel better, here are several condemnations, how many months will they cover us for?

SK CONDEMNING VIOLENCE:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=16509931&postcount=1

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=720376

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=931983

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11730893&postcount=41

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7510041&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6424591&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=889452&highlight=scholars

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=138480931&postcount=48

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3654471&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=913298&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=423415&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=709549&highlight=terrorism

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=625171&highlight=terrorism


You sir, are such a habitual liar.

You wrote "SK CONDEMNING VIOLENCE:.. That is such a bald faced lie. Truly shameless. You like to produce this false impression that those are your posts condemning islamic terrorism/violence, don't you?

IN FACT, only ONE link contains YOUR statement, " I am sick of Islamic terrorism". Yeah boohooo. You are sick of it. What a resounding condemnation huh? :rolleyes:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=138480931&postcount=48


The rest of the links are all SOME OTHER PEOPLE's writing on Islamic terrorism. Those links point to posts used by you to cover up your LACK OF CONDEMNATION of islamic violence!

Most of the links are not about SK condemning violence. They are actually mostly about SK whining and bitching about being exposed as lacking in condemnation of violence.


Good job SK! You have done it again! You make Islam look bad again.

SYRIANKID
02-15-2009, 08:22 PM
You sir

My links prove that I condemn terrorism and that Classical Islamic scholarship condemns terrorism.

Here it is again: I condemn all forms of terrorism. I condemn the above incident of terrorism as well.

I think the reason you're mad is because you're a hypocrite. You were banned for actually endorsing the murder of children. That's the real reason you're so angry:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Mendoza_gold/1-6.jpg

So let us know when you decide to condemn Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist terrorism. You forgot to condemn these links here:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=55057

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/11/derry-shooting

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jjCmnWk_EFqG8T574lCM8JCle4Ng

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hXwvVXWjQuED4DIsGTfI_64H3dMQ

Why didn't you condemn the recent Sri Lankan attacks on civilians? I guess that means, by your reasoning, you support them.

BJplayer
02-16-2009, 03:27 AM
SK: Why is it do you suppose that so many of us on this board, feel like you dont condemn Muslim terrorists? Think about that for a second. Maybe we are all wrong, but how could we possibly all be coming to the same conclusion that is diametrically opposed to what you claim? Could it be that you start thread after thread after thread blasting the Jews, the US and the west? Could it be that you were starting threads ad naseum about the evil zionists when they were bombing Palestine? Or could it be that you NEVER start threads condemning Muslim murderers, but will throw in the occasional statement about opposing them? Its this bizzare lack of consistency on your part that makes it pretty obvious that your level of outrage depends on the religion of the people doing the bad acts. And I am pretty sure that you are aware this fact.

bird72
02-16-2009, 05:04 AM
I don't have a short term memory problem, I already asked politely too since Bird prides himself on being a good Christian, to either take an oath if it suits him or man up and say, yes, that is what I said.

I do not see me request him to prove he didn't send me a pm. You use that choice of words because he couldn't prove he didn't. no-one is that foolish.

No, I do not say that. That is why I asked you to produce the quote, because I was sure i didn't say that. The more you try to fix, more you sink on lies. shame on you.

Andalite
02-16-2009, 05:50 AM
Because the 6th century ****phile that they worship was angry and barbaric and they refuse to advance their religion into the modern age.

This is very true.

SYRIANKID
02-16-2009, 07:44 AM
SK: Why is it do you suppose that so many of us on this board, feel like you dont condemn Muslim terrorists?

I condemn them all the time, but you systematically ignore that. People like you behave with fear and rage towards anything Islamic, and that's why you habitually troll me on the forum, which is also why you ignore anything constructive I say.

Let's not forget your own words:


Let's see if we have all your counter-arguments down:

1) ****phile
2) Repugnant
3) Absurd
4) Incredible
5) Sad
6) Dangerous
7) Delusional
8) Madness
9) Murder
10) Lie
11) Insanity
12) Medieval Madness (nice combo there!)
13) Sick
14) Twisted
15) 5th Century (wrong century)
16) Ridiculous
17) Evil




I know one thing: Relying on the Koran and a ****phile as your "objective source of morality" is beyond absurd and is definitely repugnant. The more you speak, the more I realize how delusional one must be in order to actually believe Islam. Its incredibly sad and a danger to mankind that so many people actually believe this madness. A 9 year old child is an adult? A 52 year man having sex with a 9 year old girl is ok if she has started menstruating? Murdering homosexuals for their orientation is permitted and encouraged? Murdering those who no longer believe the lie of Islam is permitted and encouraged? And you defend this insanity with a straight face? Islam is medevil madness. It is a sick and twisted morality of a 5th century ****phile. How can you guys actually believe in this ridiculously evil religion?

bird72
02-17-2009, 04:40 PM
iraki sunnis give safe haven to al qaida to do those atrocities. later when al qaida impose their own sharia law, and U.S. make pact with sunnis(including monetary) sunnis expel al qaida. when U.S. invade irak, sunnis know they are a minority, that's why the killings beging


persecution

The dispute over the right successor to Muhammad resulted in the formation of two main sects, the Sunni, and the Shia. The Sunni, or followers of the way, followed the caliphate and maintained the premise that any devout Muslim could potentially become the successor to the Prophet if accepted by his peers. The Shia however, maintain that only the person selected by God and announced by the Prophet could become his successor, thus Ali became the religious authority for the Shia people. Militarily established and holding control over the Umayyad government, many Sunni rulers perceived the Shia as a threat ? both to their political and religious authority.[56][unreliable source?]

The Sunni rulers under the Umayyads sought to marginalize the Shia minority and later the Abbasids turned on their Shia allies and further imprisoned, persecuted, and killed Shias. The persecution of Shias throughout history by Sunni co-religionists has often been characterized by brutal and genocidal acts. Comprising only about 10-15% of the entire Muslim population, to this day, the Shia remain a marginalized community in many Sunni Arab dominant countries without the rights to practice their religion and organize.[57]

At various times many Shi'a groups have faced persecution.[58][59][60][61][62][63]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

shia persecution from sunnis is far, far, far in ancient history


let's see saudi arabia

HUMAN RIGHTS IN SAUDI ARABIA

"Well, all Saudis have no religious freedom. Including even the people who follow Wahhabi Islam. The religion is controlled by the state, by the government, you know, no matter whether you are Shia or Sunni, Wahhabi or Sufi, you are bound by the state. The majority of oppression, religious oppression against Muslims or against citizens is targeted against Shia Muslims, because they are not even considered Muslims by state policy. And they are not allowed, for example, to teach religion in schools, or history. For example, today in the Saudi history in seventy-one years of Saudi Arabia, not a single, for two minutes, was a Shia cleric allowed to go on T-V. "

http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2003-10/a-2003-10-20-5-1.cfm

i know trance want to be polite, but the facts are there.......

bump waiting SK response (from post #74)

and comment from Trance

BJplayer
02-17-2009, 05:00 PM
I condemn them all the time, but you systematically ignore that. People like you behave with fear and rage towards anything Islamic, and that's why you habitually troll me on the forum, which is also why you ignore anything constructive I say.

Let's not forget your own words:

I dont "systematically ignore" anything. We are just inundated with your anti-West, Anti-Jew, Anti-USA threads and NEVER see a thread started BY YOU condemning acts by muslims. You hate all things not muslim, or at least you have a different standard for muslims. I have no fear or rage toward Islam, and knew basically nothing about it until I came here and read your words. And you clearly demonstrate why Islam is inconsistent with the modern world with your bigotry toward all things not muslim. Its sickening. Again, if I am wrong, why do so many non-muslims draw the same conclusions about you?

All of those words you attribute to me absolutely apply to Muhammad, and more. Just because you want to ignore his faults(he was 54 when he married a 6 year old child for God sakes) doesnt mean they dont exist. Your religion advocates the murder of people for their religious beliefs and sexual orientation. How else but "midevil madness" can you explain such dispicable acts? I dont troll you, you troll all of us with your constant diatribes against the west, the Joos, and the USA. Should we just ignore that and bow down to your mythical God? You are sick and twisted. You condemn the west as you sit in a western country. If Sharia law is so great, why are you here in the land of freedom? You have taught me that there is no such thing as a "moderate muslim" and that Islam is inherently evil. Your representation of Islam has led me from nuetral to be a staunch opponent of it.

TranceNRG
02-17-2009, 05:51 PM
bump waiting SK response (from post #74)

and comment from Trance

What would you like me to say, Bird?

The facts are on the table.
The history has been recorded.
And whoever is interested to know about such conflicts and such persecutions, could refer to history books, or various online websites.

Many (if not most) Muslims are unaware of the Islamic history, and historical events. There are common historical facts and events that is well propagated and everyone knows, but not many people dig more into what else happened in the history in addition to those relatively very little common known events.

So, I'd like to know, what is it that you wish me to say? :)

SYRIANKID
02-17-2009, 07:40 PM
bump waiting SK response (from post #74)

and comment from Trance

I already told you that Shias and Sunnis have long persecuted each other. Just like every other religious group persecutes other members.

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/iranaftertherevolution/2008/12/200812691745418706.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/16/iran-humanrights

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/themes/documents/un-secretary-general-report.html

ZsbSEpk-iIs

Y4O1gJ2QS3c

There's blood everywhere, check your own history my amigo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years_War

DCarruso
02-18-2009, 07:38 AM
I already told you that Shias and Sunnis have long persecuted each other. Just like every other religious group persecutes other members.'....

but but but... islam is the religion of peace.. no? :D

Islam is the true religion... no? :D


How come now, it is 'Just like every other religious group'? :D


FTW then?

bird72
02-18-2009, 08:16 AM
What would you like me to say, Bird?

The facts are on the table.
The history has been recorded.
And whoever is interested to know about such conflicts and such persecutions, could refer to history books, or various online websites.

Many (if not most) Muslims are unaware of the Islamic history, and historical events. There are common historical facts and events that is well propagated and everyone knows, but not many people dig more into what else happened in the history in addition to those relatively very little common known events.

So, I'd like to know, what is it that you wish me to say? :)

i request your opinion on the information, because you say only a few sunnis

persecute shias, that's not the content of the article.

SYRIANKID
02-18-2009, 10:14 AM
but but but... islam is the religion of peace.. no? :D

Islam is the true religion... no? :D

How come now, it is 'Just like every other religious group'? :D

FTW then?

Just because an ideology is true doesn't mean that every adherent adheres perfectly to it.

People screw up in big ways, but truth isn't known through the action of people, people's actions are judged by the truth.

TranceNRG
02-18-2009, 10:37 AM
i request your opinion on the information, because you say only a few sunnis

persecute shias, that's not the content of the article.

The systematic persecution of shias in sunni lands by sunni governments has been well recorded. When I said a few, I was speaking relatively and about the sunni terrorists inside Iraq now.

bird72
02-18-2009, 10:53 AM
The systematic persecution of shias in sunni lands by sunni governments has been well recorded. When I said a few, I was speaking relatively and about the sunni terrorists inside Iraq now.

I understand now.....

Can you tell me why this happend, i know part of the history, but i want to

know in religious terms.

TranceNRG
02-18-2009, 11:34 AM
I understand now.....

Can you tell me why this happend, i know part of the history, but i want to

know in religious terms.

I think the simplest way to put it is that the Shias have always been considered heretics and deviants, by the sunni governments. :)

DCarruso
02-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Just because an ideology is true doesn't mean that every adherent adheres perfectly to it.

People screw up in big ways, but truth isn't known through the action of people, people's actions are judged by the truth.

So much for 'action speaks louder' , 'talk is cheap' and 'talk the talk but cannot walk the walk'.


Let's not worry about "every adherent adheres perfectly to it". We will be rotten glad if only a majority adheres to a majority part of it, a majority part of the time. Don't worry about running before you can even walk.


What is the point of talking about justice but failing to uphold justice? None really. Just empty talk.

DCarruso
02-19-2009, 11:30 PM
I think the simplest way to put it is that the Shias have always been considered heretics and deviants, by the sunni governments. :)

By Sunni governments or by Sunni religious authorities? or both? Aren't those governments only going by their respective religious authorities simply in order to placate them?

BJplayer
02-20-2009, 03:04 AM
I think the simplest way to put it is that the Shias have always been considered heretics and deviants, by the sunni governments. :)

Sort of like the Bahai's and those who convert away from Islam? Since you advocate their persecution, you must bein in favor of Shia's being persecuted and even murdered by Sunni threocracies then....

TranceNRG
02-20-2009, 03:39 AM
By Sunni governments or by Sunni religious authorities? or both? Aren't those governments only going by their respective religious authorities simply in order to placate them?

There are extremist religious authorities, and there are governments, which for various reasons choose to employ those extremist figures as their religious guides, in order to create a clear enemy within the society to divide and conquer their societies.


Sort of like the Bahai's and those who convert away from Islam? Since you advocate their persecution, you must bein in favor of Shia's being persecuted and even murdered by Sunni threocracies then....

In a sunni theocracy, if shias publicly and openly practice what directly contradicts the very basis of that sunni theocracy, then the officials within that society, in order to prevent any attempt to weaken the constitution, and in order to prevent discord and disunity within the society, have the right to arrest and punish the perpetrators of these acts, who beforehand knew the law and knew that their actions directly contradict the laws of the land.

Weightaholic
02-20-2009, 04:03 AM
If the reason that someone kills or harms another is because of their religious beliefs, then their religion is to blame.

/thread

BJplayer
02-20-2009, 04:59 AM
In a sunni theocracy, if shias publicly and openly practice what directly contradicts the very basis of that sunni theocracy, then the officials within that society, in order to prevent any attempt to weaken the constitution, and in order to prevent discord and disunity within the society, have the right to arrest and punish the perpetrators of these acts, who beforehand knew the law and knew that their actions directly contradict the laws of the land.

Well, at least you are consistent. You are for the persecution of people based upon their relgious beliefs, be they muslim or non-muslim. This is anathema to all we hold dear in the west. You of all people should support religious freedom since religion is so important to you. But you have no qualms with corrupt governments murdering people for their religious beliefs. Please dont spread this hatred outside of those ME ****holes from which it sprang.

TranceNRG
02-20-2009, 11:20 AM
Well, at least you are consistent. You are for the persecution of people based upon their relgious beliefs, be they muslim or non-muslim. This is anathema to all we hold dear in the west. You of all people should support religious freedom since religion is so important to you. But you have no qualms with corrupt governments murdering people for their religious beliefs. Please dont spread this hatred outside of those ME ****holes from which it sprang.

I am not "for persecution" as you put it.

However, if individuals, in a theocracy, openly and publicly, practice what directly contradicts the laws of the land, then they must be stopped.

I think I have been very clear about that, however, if at the end of the day, you conclude that I am "for persecution", then there's nothing I could say that would make my position clearer to you.

BJplayer
02-21-2009, 05:08 AM
I am not "for persecution" as you put it.

However, if individuals, in a theocracy, openly and publicly, practice what directly contradicts the laws of the land, then they must be stopped.

I think I have been very clear about that, however, if at the end of the day, you conclude that I am "for persecution", then there's nothing I could say that would make my position clearer to you.

But you see, this is the exact same thing ALL totalitarian regimes do, be they theocracies or not. The Soiviet Union persecuted all religions because they said it contradicted the laws of the land. My point is, the fuking laws are unjust. You seem to believe that you dont care if the laws unjust, the law is the law. So, you cant speak out against unjust laws. Particurlarly if that law somehow comes from a bizzare 1500 year old book.

You have made it VERY CLEAR that persecution based on a persons religious beliefs is ok if the government "says" the relgion is violative of its laws. The government MAKES ths laws. And they sometimes make bad laws to justify their bad actions. Just because a bad law exists, doesnt mean I just have to accept it. This is the problem that Muslims have with the Koran. If if its laws are immoral, you cant question them. And as a result, innocent people living under Sharia law are legally brutalized.

TranceNRG
02-21-2009, 12:23 PM
But you see, this is the exact same thing ALL totalitarian regimes do, be they theocracies or not. The Soiviet Union persecuted all religions because they said it contradicted the laws of the land. My point is, the fuking laws are unjust. You seem to believe that you dont care if the laws unjust, the law is the law. So, you cant speak out against unjust laws. Particurlarly if that law somehow comes from a bizzare 1500 year old book.

You have made it VERY CLEAR that persecution based on a persons religious beliefs is ok if the government "says" the relgion is violative of its laws. The government MAKES ths laws. And they sometimes make bad laws to justify their bad actions. Just because a bad law exists, doesnt mean I just have to accept it. This is the problem that Muslims have with the Koran. If if its laws are immoral, you cant question them. And as a result, innocent people living under Sharia law are legally brutalized.

Your underlying issue isn't with countries and governments, your main issue is with Islam, and whoever follows the laws of Islam. Since that is the case, and since I have chosen to follow Islam word for word, there isn't much else I can say to help you calm down.

You can continue to demonize Islam though, if that makes you feel better. :)

BJplayer
02-21-2009, 12:37 PM
Your underlying issue isn't with countries and governments, your main issue is with Islam, and whoever follows the laws of Islam. Since that is the case, and since I have chosen to follow Islam word for word, there isn't much else I can say to help you calm down.

You can continue to demonize Islam though, if that makes you feel better. :)

Hey, I just used the former Soviet Union as an example. My issue isnt with Islam, its with immorality of corrupt governments like Iran. But you guys always love to play the victim card. I am not demonizing Islam. I am pointing out the immoral and despicable acts by governments, and parts of the Koran that you guys refuse to denounce. Killing folks for their beliefs or sexual orientation is cowardly and wrong. If people knew that Islam advocates this brutality against innocent people, your reception here would be alot less welcoming.

bird72
02-21-2009, 12:39 PM
There are extremist religious authorities, and there are governments, which for various reasons choose to employ those extremist figures as their religious guides, in order to create a clear enemy within the society to divide and conquer their societies.



In a sunni theocracy, if shias publicly and openly practice what directly contradicts the very basis of that sunni theocracy, then the officials within that society, in order to prevent any attempt to weaken the constitution, and in order to prevent discord and disunity within the society, have the right to arrest and punish the perpetrators of these acts, who beforehand knew the law and knew that their actions directly contradict the laws of the land.

you support US. guantanamo base detainies?

you support abortion law in countries like you live? is the law of the land.

is a law good because is the law of the land who make it?

TranceNRG
02-21-2009, 12:40 PM
I am not demonizing Islam. I am pointing out the immoral and despicable parts of it that you guys refuse to denounce. Killing folks for their beliefs or sexual orientation is cowardly and wrong. If people knew that Islam advocates this brutality against innocent people, your reception here would be alot less welcoming.

If you really think people do not know about these aspects of Islam, then continue with your mission and speak loudly against Islam.

Here is the part that we both readily agree upon. Muslims (including me) will never denounce any part of Islam.

So, now, you can continue to do what you have been doing, and I'll continue to follow Islam word for word.

Deal? :)

TranceNRG
02-21-2009, 12:43 PM
you support US. guantanamo base detainies?

you support abortion law in countries like you live? is the law of the land.

is a law good because is the law of the land who make it?

I support the laws of Islam, not the laws of the land.
In this case, the laws of the land of Iran are based on the laws of Islam.
Because I support the laws of Islam, and because Iranian constitution is based on the laws of Islam, I support the laws of the land of Iran.


P.S. Welcome back

BJplayer
02-21-2009, 12:43 PM
If you really think people do not know about these aspects of Islam, then continue with your mission and speak loudly against Islam.

Here is the part that we both readily agree upon. Muslims (including me) will never denounce any part of Islam.

So, now, you can continue to do what you have been doing, and I'll continue to follow Islam word for word.

Deal? :)

But here is the problem: that other group of Muslims think YOU are a heretic. And you are advocating their right to murder YOU. Its the dumbest **** ever. You should be in favor of freedom of religion, not the right to murder people for their beliefs. This is illogical.

TranceNRG
02-21-2009, 12:47 PM
But here is the problem: that other group of Muslims think YOU are a heretic. And you are advocating their right to murder YOU. Its the dumbest **** ever. You should be in favor of freedom of religion, not the right to murder people for their beliefs. This is illogical.

Just because shias are being persecuted in some lands, it doesn't in any way mean that I must "logically" denounce Islam.

bird72
02-21-2009, 12:50 PM
I support the laws of Islam, not the laws of the land.
In this case, the laws of the land of Iran are based on the laws of Islam.
Because I support the laws of Islam, and because Iranian constitution is based on the laws of Islam, I support the laws of the land of Iran.


P.S. Welcome back

thanks, just a scaramuse.

p.s.

I don't believe in the sharia law, but that guy who poor acid over the girl face,mennnnn, get rid of him.........sorry i am a imperfect men.....

TranceNRG
02-21-2009, 12:53 PM
thanks, just a scaramuse.

p.s.

I don't believe in the sharia law, but that guy who poor acid over the girl face,mennnnn, get rid of him.........sorry i am a imperfect men.....

Yes.
That criminal must be punished harshly.