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View Full Version : Outrage over crosses hung in classrooms at Boston College



ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 01:03 AM
Some Boston College professors and students are raising a holy ruckus over the Catholic school?s return to its religious roots by hanging crucifixes in all its classrooms, calling the move ?offensive? and a break from the Jesuit tradition of tolerance.

?There is no choice if you don?t think it?s appropriate. You can?t turn it around,? said biology professor Dan Kirschner, faculty adviser for BC?s chapter of Hillel, a Jewish student group. ?I think it is being insensitive to the people of other faith traditions here.?

Amir Hoveyda, head of BC?s chemistry department, blasted the school in an e-mail to the Herald for ?not being interested in an exchange with its faculty members.?

In an interview with the college newspaper, The Observer, which broke the story, Hoveyda described the crucifixes as ?offensive? and the university?s actions as ?anti-intellectual.?

?I can hardly imagine a more effective way to denigrate the faculty of an educational institution,? he is quoted as saying. ?The insult is particularly scathing, since such symbols were installed without discussion . . . in a disturbingly surreptitious manner.?

BC spokesman Jack Dunn said college President Rev. William P. Leahy decided to install crucifixes in the university?s 151 classrooms as a means of reconnecting the school with its ?Catholic mission.?

?As a Catholic university, we view the crucifix as a sacred symbol and its placement reflects our commitment to our religious heritage. We hope that those who do not share our faith tradition can respect our intentions,? he said.

Dunn said many BC classrooms and lecture halls already displayed crucifixes and religious icons, such as images of the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus. But over winter recess, crosses were put in some 40 rooms - including science labs - sparking the backlash.

The display of crucifixes - some of them hand-carved works brought back by students from volunteer missions overseas - is an outgrowth of the college?s Committee on Christian Art, formed in 2002 to promote Christian artworks on campus..

Patrick Reilly, head of The Cardinal Newman Society, said he was ?thrilled? by the action of Boston College, which too often ?seemed to shy away from any overt affiliation as Catholic.?

?Catholic colleges across the country will be grateful for Boston College?s taking such a clear stand in support of its Catholic identity,? he said.

Many students agreed.

?Boston College welcomes students, faculty and staff from all religious persuasions with welcome arms,? said senior Patrick Fouhy, 21. ?But at the end of the day, we are still a Jesuit, Catholic university and that is a core part of our identity. Putting crucifixes up is a nice reminder of that.?

But sophomore Alex LoVerde, 20, believes a crucifix ?pushes the Catholic religion? and does not belong in a classroom. ?I think the Jesuit tradition is more of openness and tolerance,? LoVerde said. ?I think that an overt display of crucifixes is not what the Jesuits would have had in mind.?


What is that, crosses are being hung at a private Catholic university, how absolutely shocking!



?I think the Jesuit tradition is more of openness and tolerance,? LoVerde said. ?I think that an overt display of crucifixes is not what the Jesuits would have had in mind.?


How much you want to bet that this guy doesn't even know where the word Jesuit came from?

CollegeU
02-13-2009, 05:07 AM
Jesuits are the new Marxists. Just read about the Walter Block saga at Loyola Maryland late last year.

Centurions
02-13-2009, 05:12 AM
It's a catholic university, if you don't like it there are thousands of other secular schools where this sort of thing isn't and shouldn't be allowed.

MAPump
02-13-2009, 05:27 AM
They have no problem getting their paycheck from the catholic school though. If you dont like it then GTFO and go teach somewhere else...and I'm not even religeous.

MantisShrimp
02-13-2009, 10:07 AM
What is that, crosses are being hung at a private Catholic university, how absolutely shocking!

Yeah that's utter bull****. And if anyone's done well by the cross, it's the Jesuits.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 10:13 AM
uhhhhh is this not a Christian School? OMG here we go, even the so called Christians are offended.


...




sar⋅casm
   /ˈsɑrk?zəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.
Origin:
1570?80; < LL sarcasmus < Gk sarkasm?s, deriv. of sark?zein to rend (flesh), sneer; see sarco-

HoosierBoy
02-13-2009, 10:13 AM
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t256/Peacosh_2008/baby-crying.jpg

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 10:15 AM
Well if its a private Catholic school I really dont see how you could argue against it. How silly.

grup910
02-13-2009, 10:29 AM
As long as the christians aren't trying to force their beliefs on anyone else. :rolleyes:

The jesuits have a long history of intolerant behavior. Historically they are one of the most violent and vicious sects in any religion.

Btw, the OP stated the story wrong. BC is hanging crucifixes, not crosses.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 10:35 AM
As long as the christians aren't trying to force their beliefs on anyone else. :rolleyes:

Its a private Christian university, they can express their religious views however they please. Don't like it? Go to Brandeis.....oh wait...those damn Jews....um...U-Mass?




Btw, the OP stated the story wrong. BC is hanging crucifixes, not crosses.

:rolleyes:

grup910
02-13-2009, 10:46 AM
uhh let me see, I will go to a "private" Christian college and when they put a cross up I will oppose it. Tell me what is wrong with that? Come on now be honest.

Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses as not being oriented to doing that, kind of like if a Jehova's Witness offered to take you a neutral dinner just to eat, and then once they got you there started putting pamphlets in your face. It's a question of propriety and tolerance, and BC fails on both counts.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 10:48 AM
Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses as not being oriented to doing that, kind of like if a Jehova's Witness offered to take you a neutral dinner just to eat, and then once they got you there started putting pamphlets in your face. It's a question of propriety and tolerance, and BC fails on both counts.




Its INSENSITIVE!!!! GASP! FEAR! If there are people who work or attend BC and couldn't figure out that it was a Catholic College until this point, then maybe this is life doing them a favor and letting them know that they aren't exactly all that bright.

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 10:50 AM
Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses as not being oriented to doing that, kind of like if a Jehova's Witness offered to take you a neutral dinner just to eat, and then once they got you there started putting pamphlets in your face. It's a question of propriety and tolerance, and BC fails on both counts.

Brah, its a Catholic private school, they worship crucifixes, anyone that complains about really has no leg to stand on IMO.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 10:52 AM
Dunn said many BC classrooms and lecture halls already displayed crucifixes and religious icons, such as images of the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus.

....Doesn't take a genius to put 2+2 together.

Gabriel Anton
02-13-2009, 10:52 AM
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t256/Peacosh_2008/baby-crying.jpg

x2

I went to a Catholic school while being an Atheist , :D

I even had to go to Mass, though I just politely sat in the back , sucks though didn't get any free bread and grape juice :mad:

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 10:52 AM
x2

I went to a Catholic school while being an Atheist , :D

I even had to go to Mass, though I just politely sat in the back , sucks though didn't get any free bread and grape juice :mad:

How did they force you to go to mass? Would you get kicked out had you refused?

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 10:55 AM
How did they force you to go to mass? Would you get kicked out had you refused?



Think of it as a required part of the curriculum. I went to Catholic School when I was younger and when we went, literally the whole school went. I think the only person that ever stayed behind was the school secretary in her little office, otherwise everyone was there, all the faculty, all the students...etc..

Gabriel Anton
02-13-2009, 10:58 AM
Think of it as a required part of the curriculum. I went to Catholic School when I was younger and when we went, literally the whole school went. I think the only person that ever stayed behind was the school secretary in her little office, otherwise everyone was there, all the faculty, all the students...etc..

This,

We all went by grade to the chapel on grounds. I probably could have asked to stay somewhere else but I wasn't bothered in the least , and I preferred to stay with my classmates .

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 10:59 AM
This,

We all went by grade to the chapel on grounds. I probably could have asked to stay somewhere else but I wasn't bothered in the least , and I preferred to stay with my classmates .

Why did you choose to go to a Catholic school?

MediaDeit
02-13-2009, 11:05 AM
Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses as not being oriented to doing that, kind of like if a Jehova's Witness offered to take you a neutral dinner just to eat, and then once they got you there started putting pamphlets in your face. It's a question of propriety and tolerance, and BC fails on both counts.

Be right back, goingto apply to a get into a Jewish school and then bitch and complain because they have stars of david and dradles everywhere.

:rolleyes:

Gabriel Anton
02-13-2009, 11:10 AM
Why did you choose to go to a Catholic school?

It was superior in every way to the local public schools. The coursework, class size, 'safety' , etc. the Sisters who taught us were great. It was also close to home.

We are talking primary school I should add, so while It really wasn't my choice (parents) ,If I somehow end up having to raise a child they'll probably go to a Catholic institution for schooling. Was a positive experience for me, the more so because of the contrast with the Public High school I attended,,,

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:10 AM
People are to easily offended. That would be like me going to a cock fight and when I get there I say I hate chickens.

No, it's more like someone inviting you over to see their chicken farm, and then when you get there having to see cock fights instead. It's not really the same thing it was "billed" as.

The people who are trying to equate Boston College with "catholic school" are being totally absurd. BC has nothing to do with "catholic school" in the sense of it being a parochial institution. :rolleyes:

IraHays
02-13-2009, 11:14 AM
This post is a perfect example of how partisan/lack of logic makes up our ole buddy Grup.

Compare Jager's responses to Grup. Jager is a raging athiest with common sense.

Grup is just a troll.

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 11:14 AM
It was superior in every way to the local public schools. The coursework, class size, 'safety' , etc. the Sisters who taught us were great. It was also close to home.

We are talking primary school I should add, so while It really wasn't my choice (parents) ,If I somehow end up having to raise a child they'll probably go to a Catholic institution for schooling. Was a positive experience for me, the more so because of the contrast with the Public High school I attended,,,
So you are an atheist, how are you going to explain to your children that a large portion of what they are learning at Catholic school is make believe?

tenthirtytwo
02-13-2009, 11:15 AM
No, it's more like someone inviting you over to see their chicken farm, and then when you get there having to see cock fights instead. It's not really the same thing it was "billed" as.

Yea that's the problem I would have. Whether it was technically a catholic university or not, I'm sure plenty of professors went there and earned big bank/reputation for the school that would not have, had it been clear that the university was primarily a religious organization.

But I'm not entirely clear on the details of how much was there before and how much is there now. Just giving an opposing viewpoint.

IraHays
02-13-2009, 11:17 AM
So you are an atheist, how are you going to explain to your children that a large portion of what they are learning at Catholic school is make believe?

Eh, not really that large of a portion.

One religion class a day and make you go to church on 1 morning a week (during school!)

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Eh, not really that large of a portion.

One religion class a day and make you go to church on 1 morning a week (during school!)

Ok, well even a small portion, how would you explain that to your child? It seems like it would confuse them.

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:19 AM
This post is a perfect example of how partisan/lack of logic makes up our ole buddy Grup.

Compare Jager's responses to Grup. Jager is a raging athiest with common sense.

Grup is just a troll.

My posts are perfectly logical. I said they have the right to do whatever they want in this regard, but that it was insensitive toward the members of their student body who were not catholic, which it is. BC is not a parochial school, and they do not advertise nor present themselves as being a parochial school.

But once again, notice the ad hominem personal attacks against me without any logical argument from IraHays whatsoever. He just spouts some b.s. attacking me personally, and says nothing about the topic whatsoever.

Hate to break it to you, but that makes you the troll, buddy.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 11:22 AM
It was superior in every way to the local public schools. The coursework, class size, 'safety' , etc. the Sisters who taught us were great. It was also close to home.

We are talking primary school I should add, so while It really wasn't my choice (parents) ,If I somehow end up having to raise a child they'll probably go to a Catholic institution for schooling. Was a positive experience for me, the more so because of the contrast with the Public High school I attended,,,



Your life parallels very much in regard to our schooling, heh.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 11:23 AM
My posts are perfectly logical. I said they have the right to do whatever they want in this regard, but that it was insensitive toward the members of their student body who were not catholic, which it is. BC is not a parochial school, and they do not advertise nor present themselves as being a parochial school.



Oh really? Check the latest edition of the Princeton Review. Boston College has always been known as a Catholic institution, maybe people should be more careful about reading the fine print.

guest89
02-13-2009, 11:23 AM
Why did you choose to go to a Catholic school?
Religious private schools in general offer a much better education and environment then public schools... Other private schools without the religious theme may be the same but is probably going to be a lot more expensive.



So you are an atheist, how are you going to explain to your children that a large portion of what they are learning at Catholic school is make believe?

Not everything taught is going to be religious, its essentially a better education then public schools but sometimes some form of "Mass" or "Chapel" is required, usually once a week for about 15-30 mins.



I've experience with Assembly of God schools, Baptist (home school but baptist curriculum/school did it), and have experienced Catholic nuns teaching a few classes (to get ready for college cause I'd been out a school awhile) (And I'm none of those religions).


I was always several grades ahead of my friends in public schools. And also it was a much better environment, any BS goes on and a student is kicked out.


I got a GREAT education (and the state I live in has a ****ty education system).

IraHays
02-13-2009, 11:23 AM
Hate to break it to you, but that makes you the troll, buddy.

You're in the red.

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 11:26 AM
Not everything taught is going to be religious, its essentially a better education then public schools but sometimes some form of "Mass" or "Chapel" is required, usually once a week for about 15-30 mins.



I've experience with Assembly of God schools, Baptist (home school but baptist curriculum/school did it), and have experienced Catholic nuns teaching a few classes (to get ready for college cause I'd been out a school awhile) (And I'm none of those religions).


I was always several grades ahead of my friends in public schools. And also it was a much better environment, any BS goes on and a student is kicked out.


I got a GREAT education (and the state I live in has a ****ty education system).
Right, I didn't say everything, but lets assume there are going to be at least SOME things taught to your children as fact based on the Bible and Christianity, how are you as an atheist parent, going to explain this to your children?

Centurions
02-13-2009, 11:27 AM
That doesn't make you a troll. I made the mistake of defending bill o'reilly and now im drowning in red.

Gabriel Anton
02-13-2009, 11:28 AM
So you are an atheist, how are you going to explain to your children that a large portion of what they are learning at Catholic school is make believe?

'large portion'

English, Spanish, pre Algebra, US History, Earth Scienceand a Computer lab - and a Religion class twice a week (with a weekly mass) - 5th grade I think it was

We spent more time running laps and playing soccer for Phys Ed then we did talking about the Holy Trinity. And when we did, it was when we were supposed to, not a spontaneous lecture by Sister (Doctor) Lewis during a class on atomic theory.

It was my experience that a 'large portion' of what we were taught was very hard, very relevant, and usually at a higher level than in public institutions.

For the rest?

My sons or daughters would be free to make up their own minds, as it comes up I'd explain my own views and feelings on the 'god' question, but that would be about the extent of it.


It seems like it would confuse them.

Life is confusing :)

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:30 AM
You're in the red.

And you're a troll who has done nothing but ad hominem attack another forum member who is discussing the topic of the thread while contributing nothing to it yourself.

IraHays
02-13-2009, 11:31 AM
lulz at "large portion" being hammered.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 11:31 AM
Right, I didn't say everything, but lets assume there are going to be at least SOME things taught to your children as fact based on the Bible and Christianity, how are you as an atheist parent, going to explain this to your children?



I honestly don't remember a lot of religious instruction in Catholic School other than in 5th grade when we had a religious studies class, but that encompassed many other religions as well.

I do remember that there was a heck of a lot more individual attention given when it came to math and science and grammar than any other school that I had ever attended, previously or afterwards.

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 11:32 AM
'large portion'

English, Spanish, pre Algebra, US History, Earth Scienceand a Computer lab - and a Religion class twice a week (with a weekly mass) - 5th grade I think it was

We spent more time running laps and playing soccer for Phys Ed then we did talking about the Holy Trinity. And when we did, it was when we were supposed to, not a spontaneous lecture by Sister (Doctor) Lewis during a class on atomic theory.

It was my experience that a 'large portion' of what we were taught was very hard, very relevant, and usually at a higher level than in public institutions.

For the rest?

My sons or daughters would be free to make up their own minds, as it comes up I'd explain my own views and feelings on the 'god' question, but that would be about the extent of it.



Life is confusing :)Interesting take on things, I wouldnt be able to do it.

JAGERBOY
02-13-2009, 11:32 AM
lulz at "large portion" being hammered.

Geez I know man, at least someone noticed that, wow. :p

frankenstein
02-13-2009, 11:36 AM
Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses as not being oriented to doing that, kind of like if a Jehova's Witness offered to take you a neutral dinner just to eat, and then once they got you there started putting pamphlets in your face. It's a question of propriety and tolerance, and BC fails on both counts.

From one atheist to another, let me tell you- you are an absolute moron with that post. Ok, you're back on ignore with NonAtlas.

Enso
02-13-2009, 11:42 AM
Well, they've made their choice...now it is up to the students to decide if they wish to stay there or not. BC is a great school and credits should transfer easily to other schools if they feel the university has made a change for the worse.

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:52 AM
From one atheist to another, let me tell you- you are an absolute moron with that post. Ok, you're back on ignore with NonAtlas.

Another ad hominem post with no contribution to the thread. You fail. :-o

But I guess we're supposed to believe there are no jews or non-catholics at BC, right? Because if no one is offended, then why is this a news story?

frankenstein and el trolliachi apparently want us to believe they know more about BC than the people who actually attend there. Lol, talk about trolls. :p

Lol at the idiots who think that just because BC is owned/operated by catholics that means it is not a non-parochial school with a secular curricula. Where do these idiots come from?

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 11:55 AM
Another ad hominem post with no contribution to the thread. You fail. :-o

But I guess we're supposed to believe there are no jews or non-catholics at BC, right? Because if no one is offended, then why is this a news story?

frankenstein and el trolliachi apparently want us to believe they know more about BC than the people who actually attend there. Lol, talk about trolls. :p

Lol at the idiots who think that just because BC is owned/operated by catholics that means it is not a non-parochial school with a secular curricula. Where do these idiots come from?


What you don't get is this....WHO CARES IF THEY ARE OFFENDED????


Your weird obsessiveness about "sensitivity" explains everything that is wrong with your far left views.

Life is not always fair, people won't always cater to you, and why should a Catholic university have to denounce the very things that it was based on so it could please others? Why should those attending a Catholic university not be the ones required to be tolerant of the tradition that their university is founded upon.


If people don't like it, feel free to move on, plenty of other colleges out there, but a Catholic university shouldn't be forced to hide its heritage because a minority of individuals are "offended" at seeing an inanimate object hanging on the wall.

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:56 AM
BC website:


In support of the University and its goals, the mission of the Office for Institutional Diversity is to facilitate efforts to advance and sustain an organizational culture and climate that fully welcomes diversity and inclusiveness for all members of the Boston College community.


I'd hardly call putting up crucifixes in the science lab "advancing and sustaining a culture and climate of diversity and inclusiveness." :rolleyes:

Gordon Bombay
02-13-2009, 11:58 AM
They have no problem getting their paycheck from the catholic school though. If you dont like it then GTFO and go teach somewhere else...and I'm not even religeous.

Ditto. I went to a Jesuit high-school, and in every room there was a crucifix. I'm an atheist.

grup910
02-13-2009, 11:59 AM
What you don't get is this....WHO CARES IF THEY ARE OFFENDED????


Your weird obsessiveness about "sensitivity" explains everything that is wrong with your far left views.

Life is not always fair, people won't always cater to you, and why should a Catholic university have to denounce the very things that it was based on so it could please others? Why should those attending a Catholic university not be the ones required to be tolerant of the tradition that their university is founded upon.


If people don't like it, feel free to move on, plenty of other colleges out there, but a Catholic university shouldn't be forced to hide its heritage because a minority of individuals are "offended" at seeing an inanimate object hanging on the wall.

It's not my "obsessiveness," it's the stated mission of the college, posted on their very own website, which says that a goal of the university is to promote diversity and inclusiveness among their community. Seems like they are not living up very well to their own mission statements. No wonder people are offended. They have a right to be after being told that and then the college turning around and slapping them in the face instead.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 11:59 AM
BC website:



I'd hardly call putting up crucifixes in the science lab "advancing and sustaining a culture and climate of diversity and inclusiveness." :rolleyes:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/Health/ht_shock_060727_ssv.jpg

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:01 PM
It's not my "obsessiveness," it's the stated mission of the college, posted on their very own website, which says that a goal of the university is to promote diversity and inclusiveness among their community. Seems like they are not living up very well to their own mission statements. No wonder people are offended.


Holding on to their tradition has absolutely nothing to do with not promoting diversity. You don't have to bury your traditions to be "inclusive." Religious symbols on the walls are a reason only for overly sensitive people to cry, the sooner they get over their condition, the better off they will be in the long run.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:02 PM
I fail.

Have no answer for why BC is violating its very own diversity statement, huh? That's okay -- you have failed before, and you will again. Don't take it too hard.

guest89
02-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Right, I didn't say everything, but lets assume there are going to be at least SOME things taught to your children as fact based on the Bible and Christianity, how are you as an atheist parent, going to explain this to your children?

I'm not an atheist, but if I was, or my kid went to a school that was promoted my a different religion from my own, I'd simply explain to my kid my beliefs, and why they are so, and then explain to the kid how/why it might differ from some of the things taught in school.



The places I've went knew people of other religions also went there so they didn't exactly impose beliefs on anyone. They knew they were one of the best schools in the area, and because of that kids from all different religions would be there...


They never really forced anything. The chapel that was required 20 mins a week wasn't really much, you just had to go and sit there and they would sing a few songs and the preacher would talk briefly about some issue or another.


However, his message wasn't really geared towards attempting to convert anyone or overly religious. It was more of life lessons he'd learned or advice on how to deal with certain situations that might be tough for kids.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Holding on to their tradition has absolutely nothing to do with not promoting diversity. You don't have to bury your traditions to be "inclusive." Religious symbols on the walls are a reason only for overly sensitive people to cry, the sooner they get over their condition, the better off they will be in the long run.

Their stated goal is to facilitate diversity and inclusiveness. Putting up crucifixes in classrooms does not facilitate inclusiveness, sorry.

IraHays
02-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Have no answer for why BC is violating its very own diversity statement, huh?

By including Christian symbols, at a Christian school, they are violating diversity??

lulz.

stfu troll.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:05 PM
By including Christian symbols, at a Christian school, they are violating diversity??

lulz.

stfu troll.

Trolling again brah? Very weak. :-o

Btw, it's not a christian school, it's a secular school that happens to be run by catholics. Those are two very different things.

Enso
02-13-2009, 12:08 PM
Actually, Grup is right. He didn't say they don't have the right to do it...it is just that they did not advertise the University in such a manner when recruiting applicants (to the degree of what is now being done).

Now, those students are saying...hey...hold on...you may have the right, but this is not what we signed up for. Now, they are going to forced to decide if they feel they are being subjugated against and whether or not they chose to stay at the university which some see as an undue burden because they advertised something other than what they are now doing. It is like putting diet coke on the bottle and getting regular coke.

I guess the usual gang up mentality is preventing you guys from understanding what he is saying.

ripper6
02-13-2009, 12:10 PM
Of course they have the "right" to do whatever they want in that regard. That's not the point, however. It's a question of sensitivity and tolerance.

Unlike the fundie colleges, BC has a very diverse student body including Jews, christians who don't worship crucifixes, and probably atheists or other religions, as well. To suddenly start putting crucifixes all over campus including science labs and classrooms, especially under the guise of it being some kind of "art initiative" :rolleyes: is completely insensitive and a complete slap in the face to the non-christian members of their student body and staff. It's like forcing your beliefs on a captive audience, after presenting yourself under false pretenses


What an uninformed fool you are, and a blind lazy bigot. Or maybe you are just plain stupid?

You, or anyone else who intended to study/work at BC could just go to their website and READ "About BC" where it says:

"Jesuit, Catholic Tradition encountering the world
Boston College is committed to maintaining and strengthening the Jesuit, Catholic mission of the University, and especially its commitment to integrating intellectual, personal, ethical, and religious formation; and to uniting high academic achievement with service to others." http://www.bc.edu/about/tradition.html


I got my B.A. at a different university, but I did take 2 classes at BC (Logic, Hagiology), and belonged to a couple of extra-curricular groups based on their campus. I still have many friends who graduated from there.

There had long been crucifixes, statues, paintings, all over the campus. Also, crucifixed had been in all the classrooms from the beginning. The last 10-20 years, as new buildings were built or remodeled, they stopped putting up crucifixes - and I remember complaints going on then about stripping BC of its Catholic identity when they removed or did not install crucifixes.

It is a private institution, and obviously and explicitly CATHOLIC. Anyone who chose to go there to work or study CHOSE to do so. They also have the right to choose to leave and go eleswhere. Why did they go there when the college upfront states that it's mission is to strengthen the Catholic/Jesuit mission?

It's good to see they have a president who, at least for now, isn't a wimp and caving in.

P.S. This is the president of BC, LOOK HOW HE IS DRESSED!! Geeee, shouldn't he be required to wear something else so he doesn't offend atheists, jews, muslims, hindus, secularists, etc., that chose to go to BC?

http://www.bc.edu/about/meta-elements/jpg/f-101-b.jpg

SaviorSix
02-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Oh No!

Ultra liberal professors who willingly made the choice to teach at a Catholic school (LOL!) are complaining because..

THEY GOT THEIR FEEEWWINGS HURT

awwwww! Poor lil guys...


It's like me going to someone's house to cut their lawn and demand they re-decorate the house because I don't like how it looks.

LOL what a non-issue this is. And the forum's biggest retard known as grup is trying his hardest to defend it.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Actually, Grup is right. He didn't say they don't have the right to do it...it is just that they did not advertise the University in such a manner when recruiting applicants.

Now, those students are saying...hey...hold on...you may have the right, but this is not what we signed up for. Now, they are going to forced to decide if they feel they are being subjugated against and whether or not they chose to stay at the university.

I guess the usual gang up mentality is preventing you guys from understanding what he is saying.


Once more, the university already has all sorts of Christian icons all over the place. In my current edition of Princeton Review, it has it clearly labeled as a Christian-based university.


First few words off the website


Boston College is a private, coeducational Jesuit university


First paragraph from Wiki



Boston College is one of the oldest Jesuit, Catholic universities in the United States and is home to one of the largest Jesuit communities in the world.


If you're someone who went to Boston College not expecting to be exposed to Christian symbols then you need to brush up on your reading skills.

ripper6
02-13-2009, 12:16 PM
Actually, Grup is right. He didn't say they don't have the right to do it...it is just that they did not advertise the University in such a manner when recruiting applicants (to the degree of what is now being done).

Now, those students are saying...hey...hold on...you may have the right, but this is not what we signed up for. Now, they are going to forced to decide if they feel they are being subjugated against and whether or not they chose to stay at the university which some see as an undue burden because they advertised something other than what they are now doing. It is like putting diet coke on the bottle and getting regular coke.

I guess the usual gang up mentality is preventing you guys from understanding what he is saying.


Are you stupid, too, or just dishonest? I can't see any other option for you?

Here again are the facts:

You, or anyone else who intended to study/work at BC could just go to their website and READ "About BC" where it says:

"Jesuit, Catholic Tradition encountering the world
Boston College is committed to maintaining and strengthening the Jesuit, Catholic mission of the University, and especially its commitment to integrating intellectual, personal, ethical, and religious formation; and to uniting high academic achievement with service to others." http://www.bc.edu/about/tradition.html

Enso
02-13-2009, 12:17 PM
Once more, the university already has all sorts of Christian icons all over the place. In my current edition of Princeton Review, it has it clearly labeled as a Christian-based university.


If you're someone who went to Boston College not expecting to be exposed to Christian symbols then you need to brush up on your reading skills.

That is true. I believe it is just the level of which that is now being presented. They are stepping up the exposure.

The students and professors have no right to try to force them to take them down, but given the way they presented themselves as being/accepting diverse/ity (while primarily Jesuit)....I can see why some are making a gripe.

Now, they just need to pack up and leave if they don't like it.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:20 PM
What an uninformed fool you are, and a blind lazy bigot. Or maybe you are just plain stupid?


I'm not the stupid one here, bro. :D

The people who chose to go there didn't know there were going to be crucifixes in the science labs. :-o

I did go to the website and read, as I posted their diversity statement earlier. I guess you didn't READ that.

The jesuits have a so-called "tradition" of scholarship that doesn't necessarily have to include religious scholarship. Their *stated* mission, in fact, is more about academic excellence regardless of religious POV and supposedly teaching people to think for themselves, just like Bill Clinton got his law degree at a jesuit university, and yet that doesn't make him either a catholic or a jesuit. I think you really just don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so I won't waste any more time on you.

:wave:

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm not the stupid one here, bro. :D

The people who chose to go there didn't know there were going to be crucifixes in the science labs. :-o

:wave:




CRUCIFIXES IN THE SCIENCE LAB? OH NO THE HORROR.

IraHays
02-13-2009, 12:23 PM
The people who chose to go there didn't know there were going to be crucifixes in the science labs. :-o


lulz. If a crucifix on a wall is enough to bother a person, maybe they shouldn't have gone to a f*cking private, christian university.

lulz.

deeyala
02-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Thread should read " Outrage over crosses hung in classrooms at Jesuit College in Boston "

Some Boston College professors and students are raising a holy ruckus over the Catholic school?s return to its religious roots by hanging crucifixes in all its classrooms, calling the move ?offensive? and a break from the Jesuit tradition of tolerance.
Why would displaying your beliefs be considered an act of intolerance?
They need to go teach/ learn somewhere else. :o

SaviorSix
02-13-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm not the stupid one here, bro. :D

The people who chose to go there didn't know there were going to be crucifixes in the science labs. :-o

I did go to the website and read, as I posted their diversity statement earlier. I guess you didn't READ that.

The jesuits have a so-called "tradition" of scholarship that doesn't necessarily have to include religious scholarship. Their *stated* mission, in fact, is more about academic excellence regardless of religious POV and supposedly teaching people to think for themselves, just like Bill Clinton got his law degree at a jesuit university, and yet that doesn't make him either a catholic or a jesuit. I think you really just don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so I won't waste any more time on you.

:wave:

LOL. Holy crap I bet you are the dorkiest looking and sounding person....

Hey tim, did you decide on a college yet?
YEah I was gonna pick BC until I learned there was a crucifix in the science lab!

ripper6
02-13-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm not the stupid one here, bro. :D

The people who chose to go there didn't know there were going to be crucifixes in the science labs. :-o

I did go to the website and read, as I posted their diversity statement earlier. I guess you didn't READ that.

The jesuits have a so-called "tradition" of scholarship that doesn't necessarily have to include religious scholarship. Their *stated* mission, in fact, is more about academic excellence regardless of religious POV and supposedly teaching people to think for themselves, just like Bill Clinton got his law degree at a jesuit university, and yet that doesn't make him either a catholic or a jesuit. I think you really just don't have a clue of what you're talking about, so I won't waste any more time on you.

:wave:


Sorry, but you still remain stupid/bigoted/dishonest.

I bet when you walk into a Chinese restaurant you complain when you see rice on the menu?

Walk into a Catholic church or school and you will inevitably see the crucifix there.

If the crucifix/cross/open-catholicism is such an "offense" to anyone, then they should have NOT walked right into an institution where that is at its center. Just walk by and go elsewhere. Those people weren't drafted, and it isn't a locked prison, and there was no "pre-nuptial" agreement saying that crucifixes would not be displayed.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:32 PM
Sorry, but you still remain stupid/bigoted/dishonest.

I bet when you walk into a Chinese restaurant you complain when you see rice on the menu?

Walk into a Catholic church or school and you will inevitably see the crucifix there.

If the crucifix/cross/open-catholicism is such an "offense" to anyone, then they should have NOT walked right into an institution where that is at its center. Just walk by and go elsewhere. Those people weren't drafted, and it isn't a locked prison, and there was no "pre-nuptial" agreement saying that crucifixes would not be displayed.


"A classroom is a place where I am supposed, as a teacher, to teach without any bias, to teach the truth. And when you put an icon or an emblem or a flag, it confuses the matter," said Amir Hoveyda, the chemistry department chair.

So you're calling the Chair of the BC chemistry department "stupid/bigoted/dishonest?"

You really shouldn't engage in that kind of libel -- you could end up getting sued. :-o

IraHays
02-13-2009, 12:34 PM
Why would displaying your beliefs be considered an act of intolerance?


This is what is so dam funny about Grups argument. Hell, if you can't hang a crosses on a Christian campus, where the hell can you hang them?

Grup obviously has tolerance for Christians. lulz.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:36 PM
Here's what another distinguished BC Professor and Department Chair says on the matter:


Maxim D. Shrayer, chairman of the department of Slavic and Eastern languages and literatures, told the Boston Globe that he believes the display of religious signs and symbols in the classroom is "contrary to the letter and spirit of open intellectual discourse that makes education worthwhile and distinguishes first-rate universities from mediocre and provincial ones."


I guess that makes you the mediocre and provincial one, doesn't it? :-o

Oh wait -- I guess you with your BA know more about the letter and spirit of open and intellectual discourse than a PhD Department Chair of Literature at BC knows about it. :-o

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:37 PM
You know when they wanted to take the crosses down at Georgetown, one of the most powerful people to speak up against that action was a Muslim professor.


People who are complaining about crosses at a Christian institution are simply people who always want something to complain about and like feeling disenfranchised somehow. If it wasn't this, it would be something else and the media today makes every single whiner feel like they have a story to tell about someone doing them "wrong."

ONtop888
02-13-2009, 12:37 PM
x2

I went to a Catholic school while being an Atheist , :D

I even had to go to Mass, though I just politely sat in the back , sucks though didn't get any free bread and grape juice :mad:

wine bro, we drink the REAL ishh :)

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Here's what another distinguished BC Professor and Department Chair says on the matter:



I guess that makes you the mediocre and provincial one, doesn't it? :-o

Oh wait -- I guess you with your BA know more about the letter and spirit of open and intellectual discourse than a PhD Department Chair of Literature at BC knows about it. :-o


All that proves is if that guy can't handle the strain, he can quit.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:39 PM
You know when they wanted to take the crosses down at Georgetown, one of the most powerful people to speak up against that action was a Muslim professor.


People who are complaining about crosses at a Christian institution are simply people who always want something to complain about and like feeling disenfranchised somehow. If it wasn't this, it would be something else and the media today makes every single whiner feel like they have a story to tell about someone doing them "wrong."

Yeah, I'm sure the head of the chemistry department at BC "just wants to complain about something" and feels totally "disenfranchised." That's a strong argument. :rolleyes:

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:40 PM
All that proves is if that guy can't handle the strain, he can quit.

Actually it just proves that you're a total idiot who doesn't have a clue about open intellectual discourse, but most of us who actually have a higher education already knew that. :-o

IraHays
02-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I'm sure the head of the chemistry department at BC "just wants to complain about something" and feels totally "disenfranchised." That's a strong argument. :rolleyes:

Well his argument is totally ridiculous.

like a cross in the back of the room is somehow going to taint the learning experience.

lulz again.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:41 PM
Yeah, I'm sure the head of the chemistry department at BC "just wants to complain about something" and feels totally "disenfranchised." That's a strong argument. :rolleyes:


Once more, if he doesn't like it, he can quit. The head of the chemistry department doesn't run the university, so he can either suck it up and get over it, or go find a job at U-Mass.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Actually it just proves that you're a total idiot who doesn't have a clue about open intellectual discourse, but most of us who actually have a higher education already knew that. :-o


The only higher education you have is vocational training that you somehow managed to flunk out of as well.

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:45 PM
The only higher education you have is vocational training that you somehow managed to flunk out of as well.

Jealous because I'm better educated than you, brah? Thought so. ;)

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:47 PM
Well his argument is totally ridiculous.

like a cross in the back of the room is somehow going to taint the learning experience.

lulz again.

No one is given any choice in the matter.

Plus, I can only imagine this is going to hurt BC when it comes to recruitment, of both faculty and students. That will lead to exactly what one of the professors said: mediocrity and provincialism. Good, at least that will weaken the catholics some more, just like all their recent church closings as people turn away from the superstition in droves.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:51 PM
No one is given any choice in the matter.

Plus, I can only imagine this is going to hurt BC when it comes to recruitment, of both faculty and students. That will lead to exactly what one of the professors said: mediocrity and provincialism. Good, at least that will weaken the catholics some more, just like all their recent church closings as people turn away from the superstition in droves.


Or not................there's plenty of people out there who aren't frightened or offended of inanimate objects hanging on a wall. I know that must be difficult for you to imagine, but believe me, they are out there.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 12:52 PM
Jealous because I'm better educated than you, brah? Thought so. ;)


You had to edit your post two times and this is the best that you could come up with?


*shakes head*

ONtop888
02-13-2009, 12:55 PM
No one is given any choice in the matter.

Plus, I can only imagine this is going to hurt BC when it comes to recruitment, of both faculty and students. That will lead to exactly what one of the professors said: mediocrity and provincialism. Good, at least that will weaken the catholics some more, just like all their recent church closings as people turn away from the superstition in droves.

lulz....wut?

grup910
02-13-2009, 12:57 PM
Or not................there's plenty of people out there who aren't frightened or offended of inanimate objects hanging on a wall. I know that must be difficult for you to imagine, but believe me, they are out there.

Great. Maybe they can hang up some swastikas next. According to you, those would just have to be inanimate objects, too, not symbols of anything, right?

That's your argument -- a pretty weak one, I might add, since at least one professor said he would have trouble recruiting graduate students and that he would have taken offers to go elsewhere if he had known they were going to put crucifixes in his classroom.

ElMariachi
02-13-2009, 01:00 PM
Great. Maybe they can hang up some swastikas next. According to you, those would just have to be inanimate objects, too, not symbols of anything, right?

That's your argument -- a pretty weak one, I might add, since at least one professor said he would have trouble recruiting graduate students and that he would have taken offers to go elsewhere if he had known they were going to put crucifixes in his classroom.



Well now he can go elsewhere. :)

grup910
02-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Well now he can go elsewhere. :)

Why should he have to? Because BC violated the trust of the community?

Besides, if you knew how anything worked in academia, you would know that those positions are likely long gone by now. Once again, you just keep demonstrating over and over that you really don't have a clue about basically anything. :-o

IraHays
02-13-2009, 01:07 PM
Because BC violated the trust of the community?


http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/Irahays/87665Dude-Wtf-Posters.jpg

grup910
02-13-2009, 01:08 PM
[IMG]]

If you don't have anything intelligent to have (which obviously you don't), you really should refrain from posting altogether. :-o

IraHays
02-13-2009, 01:14 PM
If you don't have anything intelligent to have (which obviously you don't), you really should refrain from posting altogether. :-o


lmao at you acting like your post are "intelligent."

This thread is great entertainment. It's funny as hell to watch you reach deeper and deeper. The stuff you come up with is amazing. It almost makes me think you are just pulling everyones chain.


"trust of the community", I'm still lmfao at that one.

Centurions
02-13-2009, 04:54 PM
The only people i can plausibly see being "offended" by crucifexes are fanny bandits.

Why else wud it offend you? or if you were raped by a priest i guess.

so which is it grup910?

catmando
02-13-2009, 05:06 PM
You're in the red.As "Go F**k Yourself" Cheney would say....so??

IraHays
02-13-2009, 05:08 PM
As "Go F**k Yourself" Cheney would say....so??

lol


not sure how far in the red you are, but you gave me the lulz, so here is some greenz to help.

catmando
02-13-2009, 05:12 PM
You know when they wanted to take the crosses down at Georgetown, one of the most powerful people to speak up against that action was a Muslim professor.


People who are complaining about crosses at a Christian institution are simply people who always want something to complain about and like feeling disenfranchised somehow. If it wasn't this, it would be something else and the media today makes every single whiner feel like they have a story to tell about someone doing them "wrong."I think you should write the Chairman of the Chemistry Dept and tell him that.

catmando
02-13-2009, 09:51 PM
lol


not sure how far in the red you are, but you gave me the lulz, so here is some greenz to help.Thanks Ira :) but I'm pretty deep. Time will tell.